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Transforming Grief into a Healing Haven with Permelia Parham · The Heart-Led Business Show

• 0:01
  Speaker: Welcome to the Heart Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love.
• 0:09
  Speaker: Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second.
• 0:20
  Speaker: From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism.
• 0:29
  Speaker: So buckle up and let's go.
• 0:31
  Speaker: Let your heart guide your business journey.
• 0:36
  Tom: Ladies and gents, fasten your seat belts and align your chakras.
• 0:41
  Tom: Today, we're probing the profound with Permelia Parham, the passionate pioneer of the Healing Institute.
• 0:50
  Tom: Her heart led hub is a highway to health, not just a stopgap.
• 0:55
  Tom: We're diving into her dream, discussing her diligence and delivering a dash of delightful discourse on owning a heart led business and giving us a potion of perpetual positivity right here on the Heart Led Business Show.
• 1:11
  Tom: Permelia welcome!
• 1:13
  Permelia: Thank you so much, Tom.
• 1:14
  Permelia: I'm just delighted to be here today.
• 1:17
  Permelia: I love this concept of leading with our hearts, so I'm I'm really excited to be
• 1:23
  Tom: here.
• 1:23
  Tom: Awesome.
• 1:24
  Tom: Well, we're glad that you're here as well.
• 1:26
  Tom: And so tell me what is your definition of a heart led business?
• 1:30
  Permelia: I define a heart led business as being authentic and thinking of love first over anything else.
• 1:41
  Permelia: Really leading with love, really thinking about my business is run with love and, our motto actually is service with love.
• 1:50
  Permelia: So that's another part of the heart lead is looking at the service that we offer.
• 1:57
  Permelia: And I don't think about sales in sort of the traditional way.
• 2:02
  Permelia: I think about it as sacred service.
• 2:05
  Tom: Okay.
• 2:06
  Tom: That's great.
• 2:06
  Tom: That's a really nice way of looking at it.
• 2:09
  Tom: And so, but tell me like how, what inspired you to kind of start this business and lead with your heart?
• 2:16
  Permelia: Well, we did have a tragedy in our family a few years ago where my mom passed away at a very young age due to some complications with her kidneys because she'd been on a medication for a long time and not once did her doctor ever tell her there could be a complication and it could be, it could damage her kidneys.
• 2:37
  Permelia: So it was a very, She died very suddenly.
• 2:41
  Permelia: It happened right at Christmas.
• 2:43
  Permelia: I was five months pregnant with my son.
• 2:46
  Permelia: So the tragedy of all of that, not only the fact that she passed away at a young age, she was only 61.
• 2:52
  Permelia: Also my children never got to meet their grandmother.
• 2:56
  Permelia: And as I was developing my own business around healing, you know, I don't want anybody else to have to go through that tragedy.
• 3:05
  Permelia: And that's why I call the Healing Institute an institute, mainly because I want to really educate people around what is available, what is out there, what is the other alternatives to being well and staying well, while we're on our health journey, because let's face it, we're all on a health journey.
• 3:24
  Permelia: So let's be on a wellness journey, not a sickness journey.
• 3:28
  Tom: Yeah, exactly.
• 3:30
  Tom: So tell me a little bit more about, about your business and how you conduct that?
• 3:34
  Tom: And help people.
• 3:35
  Permelia: Well, we were able to design it basically because we were all stuck at home in 2020 and 2021.
• 3:43
  Permelia: And I had been thinking, I live on Vancouver Island in Canada, and I live in a beautiful area.
• 3:50
  Permelia: It's actually, very nationally known, internationally known actually for the energetic vortex that is here.
• 3:58
  Permelia: Now, I didn't know that there was a special energetic vortex in this certain area because those of us that live here just think it's a beautiful place to live.
• 4:06
  Permelia: And so when I was looking around my small city where I live, I was thinking of creating something for holistic practitioners.
• 4:16
  Permelia: A building of some kind or finding a building.
• 4:19
  Permelia: People could do their, you know, their yoga retreats.
• 4:21
  Permelia: They could do workshops.
• 4:23
  Permelia: They could, we would even have my vision was at the time, was to have You know, some office space where people could actually see some of their interviews, some of their clients, or do their sessions in a private space.
• 4:36
  Permelia: So that's what I was looking at and considering in the fall of 2019, just to give everybody kind of an idea as to when this happened.
• 4:43
  Permelia: And then, of course, as I mentioned we were all locked down.
• 4:46
  Permelia: I didn't even know anything about Zoom.
• 4:49
  Permelia: I had to learn to about Zoom because like, like a lot of people because of all of a sudden I'm now doing my client sessions on Zoom or over the phone.
• 4:58
  Permelia: And anyway, that what sort of prompted me because there was also many of this fabulous online networking platforms that were happening at the same time.
• 5:10
  Permelia: And I love networking.
• 5:11
  Permelia: I love connecting with people.
• 5:13
  Permelia: So I was on these networking platforms and voila, I was meeting online, these amazing holistic practitioners all over the world.
• 5:24
  Permelia: So I thought maybe maybe my focus and maybe, What God hasn't planned for me is not necessarily to have a building on Vancouver Island.
• 5:33
  Permelia: Perhaps we're gonna do something just a little bit bigger.
• 5:36
  Permelia: We're going do it virtually and we're gonna do it globally.
• 5:38
  Permelia: It's gonna be an online, worldwide hub for holistic practitioners.
• 5:43
  Permelia: And then when I started to develop that and work on my business plan, I had a fabulous business coach that was really a visionary and she really assisted me in looking at the bigger picture and I went, you know, we could have an impact.
• 5:58
  Permelia: We could actually have a bigger impact on the world if we did this, if we did this online and if we did it worldwide.
• 6:04
  Tom: Yeah.
• 6:04
  Tom: I mean, absolutely.
• 6:06
  Tom: A lot of the clients that I work with are in the holistic health space.
• 6:10
  Tom: And I think having a place where they can talk about their business or and network with other holistic health providers, I think that would be just absolutely brilliant.
• 6:20
  Permelia: Yeah, we are a community on the Healing Institute.
• 6:23
  Permelia: We are a community of holistic practitioners.
• 6:25
  Permelia: Our focus, of course, is Clients that are coming to get those alternative ways of being well and staying well.
• 6:33
  Permelia: But we look at the client as a whole person.
• 6:36
  Permelia: What I mean by that is that If the client came to me and decided that they wanted to do some body code work, which is one of the modalities that I work with, but I thought, oh my goodness, they could really benefit from one of our other practitioners that does this amazing breathing technique or any of the other practitioners that we have, I would go, yes.
• 6:56
  Permelia: Let's have a conversation.
• 6:58
  Permelia: Let's see what else we can do for this client.
• 7:00
  Tom: That's really great because it kind of elevates everybody's business as well as helping the client get everything that they need to heal and get better.
• 7:11
  Permelia: Yeah, it's one stop shopping for the client.
• 7:13
  Permelia: It's
• 7:13
  Tom: perfect.
• 7:14
  Tom: That's great.
• 7:14
  Tom: And it obviously coming from your heart.
• 7:17
  Tom: So how do you balance then, you know, leading with your heart and building a business that's heart led.
• 7:24
  Tom: And paying the bills, right?
• 7:26
  Tom: Making some money doing it so that you can continue to help more people.
• 7:30
  Tom: Like what's that balance look like for you?
• 7:32
  Permelia: Well, sometimes it's a bit out of balance, to be honest.
• 7:35
  Permelia: But, you know, when you're doing what you love, you know, often people say to me, well, are you going to retire anytime soon?
• 7:41
  Permelia: And I'm like, first of all, I have no idea what that word means.
• 7:45
  Permelia: And secondly, you know, it's not work for me.
• 7:48
  Permelia: I love what I do.
• 7:50
  Permelia: So I have my integrity.
• 7:51
  Permelia: I have my values.
• 7:53
  Permelia: I really believe in what we're doing as the Institute, helping people be well from a holistic point of view.
• 8:01
  Permelia: Uh, so, you know, persistence, I think is one of the mainstays of being an entrepreneur these days.
• 8:08
  Permelia: You really do have to, you really have to believe in what you're doing.
• 8:12
  Permelia: And of course, put all the things you can in place to support that and have people around you to support you.
• 8:19
  Permelia: I mean, I was just on a women's call that I'm part of every week, and they were just raving about what the website was looking like and how even though we have some work yet to do on it and also the people, you know, they are my support.
• 8:33
  Permelia: They're telling me that what I'm doing is I'm in the right direction.
• 8:36
  Tom: Oh, nice.
• 8:37
  Tom: Do you find that it's important as an online business or as a business in general to have other business owners part of your network?
• 8:48
  Permelia: Oh, absolutely.
• 8:49
  Permelia: Yes, absolutely.
• 8:51
  Permelia: And, you know, Tom, I don't believe in competition.
• 8:55
  Permelia: I believe in collaboration.
• 8:57
  Permelia: So I can think of a two or three other businesses that are very, not somewhat similar.
• 9:03
  Permelia: They're all in the health area.
• 9:05
  Permelia: We've been on each other's podcasts.
• 9:07
  Tom: Mm-Hmm,
• 9:08
  Permelia: We've been on each other's interviews.
• 9:10
  Permelia: We've assisted each other in ways that, that whatever we could because yeah, I totally believe you, we need to be a community.
• 9:19
  Permelia: We need to be in collaboration.
• 9:20
  Tom: ab, absolutely.
• 9:22
  Tom: There's a, I read a, like a business analogy or just a business study that had been done about two stores.
• 9:29
  Tom: Let's just say that there are two camera stores and if you'd think that two camera stores same type of cameras, all that next to each other, that their business would actually kind of take away from each other, but what really happened is both of their businesses rose because now instead of going to one store, people aren't thinking, will I buy or not buy?
• 9:54
  Tom: But rather now that they see two stores, the mentality is then which store will I buy from?
• 10:03
  Tom: And so there isn't this no buy option.
• 10:05
  Tom: It's, I'm going to buy something.
• 10:07
  Tom: It's going to be from A or B.
• 10:09
  Tom: I don't believe in competition either.
• 10:10
  Tom: It's, I think everybody has their own unique tribe that will be attracted to that business.
• 10:18
  Tom: So I think that's it.
• 10:19
  Permelia: Well, and that was something an experience that I had a few years ago.
• 10:22
  Permelia: I used to be a part owner of an art gallery and we were on this mezzanine level of these two buildings Right retail buildings.
• 10:31
  Permelia: They had put a walkway between the two buildings, which was great for, you know, for people, especially cause it was not where I live right now.
• 10:39
  Permelia: It was on the Bald Prairie where it gets pretty cold in the winter.
• 10:43
  Permelia: And on the other building our art gallery had been there for quite a while, but we were a small art gallery.
• 10:48
  Permelia: Well, in the other building, the there was a sort of larger let's say, provincial or city art gallery that moved in.
• 10:58
  Permelia: And at first we were going how's that going to work?
• 11:01
  Permelia: But you know what?
• 11:01
  Permelia: They had different items.
• 11:04
  Permelia: And so it was great for people coming to either or of our work, art galleries.
• 11:09
  Permelia: All they had to do was walk across the mezzanine and go look.
• 11:12
  Permelia: Sometimes they go back and forth to see, okay, well, you have this and they have that.
• 11:16
  Permelia: Now I have to decide where I'm going to spend my dollar.
• 11:19
  Permelia: That was kind of my very first, I would say, experience, positive experience about how collaboration can.
• 11:28
  Tom: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:29
  Tom: And that's just a better way of doing business as well.
• 11:31
  Tom: Who wants to like fight with somebody else?
• 11:34
  Permelia: Well, you're not being, we're not leading from our
• 11:36
  Tom: heart.
• 11:36
  Tom: No, right, exactly.
• 11:38
  Permelia: If we're in competition, we're not leading from our heart.
• 11:40
  Permelia: Absolutely!
• 11:41
  Tom: Unfortunately in our industry, there's enough sick people to go around that need help.
• 11:48
  Tom: More than enough, unfortunately, but good thing that, you know, we have people like yourself that are making that easier to find solutions as well.
• 11:55
  Tom: So as you're building this business, like what and obviously delivering it from your heart, what kind of not so great surprises have come up because of leading from your heart.
• 12:05
  Permelia: Well, I didn't always ask for help.
• 12:08
  Permelia: I kind of am very independent, and I think I can do it all on my own.
• 12:12
  Permelia: So that was a big definitely something that I've learned to do is to ask for help.
• 12:18
  Permelia: And also, you know, we, you have to look sort of at the long term, you know, we've only been in business like basically the website's been up and running a barely a year.
• 12:27
  Permelia: So, you know, I need to remind myself of where we were last year and how much farther ahead we are this year.
• 12:36
  Permelia: And that it's, you know, going to take some time to grow.
• 12:40
  Permelia: To grow the business.
• 12:42
  Permelia: So I think oftentimes we get we want it too fast or we want it too quick.
• 12:46
  Permelia: And somebody mentioned to me the other day that we have been, we've grown up in a microwave society.
• 12:52
  Permelia: You know, we want it fast, quick, and now and some things need time.
• 12:55
  Permelia: And I think we need to just, uh, be aware of that and, you know, not not throw in the towel just because it's not happening on the timeframe that perhaps.
• 13:06
  Permelia: You thought that it was going to happen.
• 13:08
  Permelia: And then, and I have a really good example of that.
• 13:11
  Permelia: I was waiting for our website to be live.
• 13:14
  Permelia: This is about a year and a half ago and it was, we had the landing page.
• 13:18
  Permelia: So I was able to take people at least to what it was going to look like.
• 13:21
  Permelia: But we didn't have all the practitioners behind in the behind, you know, we didn't have it set up the way it is now.
• 13:28
  Permelia: I was getting really discouraged.
• 13:30
  Permelia: And so I met someone in a networking group who said to me you're ready.
• 13:36
  Permelia: The universe is just not ready for you yet.
• 13:39
  Permelia: I went, Oh, thank you very much.
• 13:43
  Permelia: That just kind of took the pressure off completely from me thinking, Oh, why is this not happening yet?
• 13:49
  Permelia: And you know what?
• 13:50
  Permelia: Within two weeks we were live.
• 13:51
  Tom: Yeah, you know, that's the, I almost had the exact same conversation with my business coach.
• 13:59
  Tom: I don't know about 2 months ago where I was like I just started the podcast and I said, Oh my gosh, this is going so great.
• 14:07
  Tom: Like, why didn't I do the podcast sooner?
• 14:10
  Tom: Like it's been so refreshing and fulfilling for me.
• 14:13
  Tom: And she was just like, you weren't ready before.
• 14:16
  Tom: Like, it's just, it's a time.
• 14:18
  Tom: And if, and I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but people that aren't leading with their heart and with their head.
• 14:24
  Tom: And I struggle with kind of doing both.
• 14:27
  Tom: We're pushing ourselves too hard and we're not giving ourselves enough grace to accept the good things that are happening in business.
• 14:36
  Permelia: And I think that's something we have to always remind ourselves, those of us that are entrepreneurs and in business, which is probably all of your audience.
• 14:43
  Permelia: You know, give yourself some grace.
• 14:45
  Permelia: You know, the more that we try to make something happen energetically, and I've worked with energy as well as a, you know, emotional healing.
• 14:56
  Permelia: We know it's not going to happen if we're pushing for it, pushing it to make it happen.
• 15:00
  Permelia: Now not to say that we shouldn't have a vision and have a clear idea of what we want to manifest in our life I think that's very important.
• 15:10
  Tom: Yeah.
• 15:12
  Permelia: Then we have to let it go.
• 15:13
  Permelia: Then we have to allow it to happen.
• 15:16
  Tom: Yeah.
• 15:17
  Permelia: which is the third part of the law of attraction, you know, figure out what you want, give yourself that definitive manifestation, and then allow it to happen.
• 15:27
  Tom: Yeah.
• 15:27
  Tom: What's the saying of a goal without a plan is just a wish or a dream.
• 15:32
  Permelia: Yes, that's right.
• 15:33
  Permelia: That's right.
• 15:34
  Permelia: Yeah.
• 15:34
  Tom: I mean, and so how do you balance like that piece of it?
• 15:38
  Tom: Like, cause that seems very heady, right?
• 15:40
  Tom: The got to plan this and I'm going to create my budget.
• 15:44
  Tom: I'm going to do all this, but how do you balance that with going, okay, like it's going to happen and I'm not going to make bad choices based on maybe the numbers not quite working out right now, but I'm just going to give myself grace.
• 15:57
  Tom: How do you balance that?
• 15:58
  Permelia: I have a mantra and a yoga meditation that I do every morning.
• 16:03
  Permelia: I start my day I get up earlier than probably I need to, but it's important for me to start my day very calmly.
• 16:13
  Permelia: So I have a yoga meditation that I do.
• 16:16
  Permelia: I'm a Course of Miracles student, so I'm always reading my Course of Miracles lesson.
• 16:21
  Permelia: And that really helps me also, the teachings with the Course of Miracles is either are you leading from love or are you leading from fear?
• 16:31
  Permelia: So when I get into my head too much I go, okay, this is, you're not leading from love.
• 16:37
  Permelia: You're leading from a fear based lack based mentality.
• 16:42
  Permelia: And I, I don't want that.
• 16:43
  Permelia: I want to be leading from a proactive and a love based mentality.
• 16:49
  Tom: Would that be similar to a scarcity mindset and abundance mindset?
• 16:56
  Tom: Absolutely!
• 16:57
  Permelia: And the, you know, the Course in Miracles teaches us that there's enough for everybody.
• 17:02
  Permelia: There's enough for all of us.
• 17:04
  Permelia: We as humans decide we, you know, we have this lack or scarcity mentality.
• 17:10
  Permelia: Based on perhaps the way we were raised, based, you know, I often think, you know, my mother and father grew up in the Depression.
• 17:19
  Permelia: My father went to war.
• 17:21
  Permelia: My grandfather went to the First World War.
• 17:23
  Permelia: They had a farm.
• 17:25
  Permelia: My grandparents had a farm that they just, you know, that never did well.
• 17:30
  Permelia: And then the one year that it did well, you know, and they bought, were able to buy things, the house burnt down, you know, like those kinds of tragedies that kind of happen over and over.
• 17:39
  Permelia: So I often think about, you know, that ancestry that I have but I don't want to go, I don't want to be part of that ancestry anymore.
• 17:49
  Permelia: I now want to look at what is available and not just for me, but for the world.
• 17:56
  Permelia: Like, we really do need to be looking at what else is going on in the world and how we can serve, and how we can make the world a better place.
• 18:05
  Permelia: And I know that sounds, that's a cliche, and we hear that all the time, but really, if we're, each one of us individually are thinking about what we can do, to serve, whether it's a company, whether it's just, you know, going to visit my next door neighbor who's 96 and give her some time and love and attention.
• 18:24
  Permelia: You know, just anything that you might be able to do, help somebody walk across the street.
• 18:29
  Permelia: And just tiny little things that you can do that is just to make the world a better place and to make people know that they are cared for.
• 18:39
  Tom: Oh that's beautiful advice.
• 18:41
  Tom: Like, cause I think the, a really powerful phrase that anybody can use for somebody else is how can I help you?
• 18:50
  Tom: How can I serve you better?
• 18:51
  Tom: I mean, that's, there's not unfortunately not enough of that in the world today, especially.
• 18:57
  Tom: I'm going to throw social media under the bus here, like, like with that, it's all about me, and not how can I serve you at a high level?
• 19:05
  Tom: And I think we're starting to see a little bit of a shift there with some of the content creators that are doing some cool stuff in terms of serving others.
• 19:14
  Permelia: Absolutely.
• 19:15
  Permelia: And I just read something just before I came on your show about how the Gen Zs,'cause we've now, you know, baby boomers, gen millennials, The Wises and the Z and the Zs.
• 19:27
  Permelia: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:28
  Permelia: So, and I'm Canadian, so I say Z, not Z, but but how they are actually wanting to have more relationships.
• 19:35
  Permelia: So they might see something on TikTok, because that's what they're following right now.
• 19:39
  Permelia: Um, but then they'll do some research to find out a little bit more about that, because they want to have that relationship.
• 19:47
  Permelia: I think we're seeing, I think we're, that really encouraged me.
• 19:51
  Permelia: That we're seeing a reverse coming back to sort of what I guess you and I would call the basics.
• 19:57
  Tom: Yeah.
• 19:58
  Permelia: Yeah.
• 19:59
  Tom: And, you know, going back to what you said at the beginning about, about sales and, you know, talking a little bit about that, it just kind of popped into my head.
• 20:08
  Tom: Selling is serving in a way, and because you can't help somebody without that exchange of values.
• 20:15
  Tom: So I think that, you know, emphasizes your point as well.
• 20:21
  Permelia: Absolutely.
• 20:22
  Permelia: And I know for me, a lot of my interaction with people who are in the wellness realm, I'm always mentoring and I'm always encouraging them to look at that exchange.
• 20:36
  Permelia: It's almost like I have this gift, I will need to give it away.
• 20:38
  Permelia: I don't know if you've come across that a lot, but yes, you have this gift, But you also need to serve yourself because you do need to have money to live or grow your business whatever you're planning to do.
• 20:51
  Permelia: So that's the sacred exchange.
• 20:53
  Permelia: That's what you are giving is value, has great value.
• 20:57
  Permelia: And so, you know, stand in your wholeness and your heart and I want to say power, but I don't mean it from from a point of view is as long as you're, when you're feeling, uh, solid and comfortable that you are offering this service and you are asking for this money in exchange then that's your sacred exchange.
• 21:20
  Permelia: That's exactly what's going to happen.
• 21:21
  Tom: mean, you can't take care of anybody else if you're not taking care of yourself.
• 21:25
  Permelia: Absolutely.
• 21:27
  Tom: And the same, if you don't love yourself how are you going to love anybody else?
• 21:30
  Permelia: I love anybody else.
• 21:31
  Permelia: Yes.
• 21:32
  Permelia: Yeah.
• 21:33
  Permelia: We talk a lot of, we've been talking a lot about about self love and self confidence and and not selfish to be looking at ourself.
• 21:43
  Permelia: I mean, some of us, put my hand up, was raised, anything I did for myself as a young girl was selfish and self-centered.
• 21:52
  Permelia: Well then, you know, that's a whole paradigm shift I had to make for myself.
• 21:56
  Permelia: And realize that really, if I'm not looking, if I'm not looking after myself first I need to have my cup filled up so that I now have whatever's in my cup filled up to, to offer other
• 22:09
  Tom: people.
• 22:10
  Tom: Yeah.
• 22:10
  Tom: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:12
  Tom: I think that's a great lesson.
• 22:13
  Tom: What words of advice would you give to a heart led business owner that might be struggling a little bit right now in terms of, I gotta like, do I keep my morals or do I take on this client that I know isn't a good fit, but they pay me well, like, or just any type of advice that you might have from the years that you've been in business?
• 22:33
  Permelia: Well, I would say keep your morals and whether that client's going to pay you or not pay you well.
• 22:41
  Permelia: It may not be worth it for your own self worth and your own, uh, integrity in the end.
• 22:49
  Permelia: And I've had that, I've had that happen.
• 22:52
  Permelia: You know, definitely that I and I was like, okay, I really need this client because I really need that money.
• 22:59
  Permelia: And then when I knew in my heart and my intuition that it wasn't a good fit, but I did it anyway.
• 23:08
  Permelia: It all went to hell in a handbasket.
• 23:10
  Permelia: So, you know who you are, you know what your heart is leading you, how you get, how you lead your life and how you lead others.
• 23:19
  Permelia: And so listen to your intuition.
• 23:21
  Permelia: And if you have any kind of what I call a niggly that says, no, you shouldn't be doing that.
• 23:28
  Permelia: Follow that advice, because in the end It's not worth it.
• 23:31
  Permelia: And I've even, you know, in some of my other businesses that I've had, I've actually had to fire client.
• 23:36
  Permelia: Because it just wasn't fitting and I gave the money back.
• 23:39
  Permelia: That hurt.
• 23:40
  Permelia: It hurt to give the money back.
• 23:41
  Permelia: But you know, I knew that it was way more stressful.
• 23:45
  Permelia: And that's another thing to think about too as a heart led business owner, you want to be calm.
• 23:52
  Permelia: You don't want to have stress in your life.
• 23:54
  Tom: Well, and then you're leading with fear versus leading with heart, you know, but
• 23:59
  Permelia: And the sense of lack.
• 24:01
  Permelia: Oh, I need this money because blah, blah, blah.
• 24:03
  Permelia: So, yeah.
• 24:04
  Permelia: Again, you're not leading with love.
• 24:06
  Permelia: You're leading with fear.
• 24:08
  Tom: great advice.
• 24:09
  Tom: And thank you for sharing that and the stories that you shared.
• 24:12
  Tom: How can people learn a little bit more about what you're doing and the website and potentially getting involved with that?
• 24:19
  Permelia: Oh, well, that would be fabulous.
• 24:20
  Permelia: Yes.
• 24:20
  Permelia: So, I have, the website is www.the-healing-institute.Com.
• 24:29
  Permelia: And you can reach me at info@the-healing-institute.com.
• 24:36
  Permelia: Or pop on the website, just pop on the website and send us a message.
• 24:40
  Permelia: If you do pop on the website, the first time you do, you'll be asked if you want to be part of our mailing list.
• 24:46
  Permelia: And we have an amazing newsletter that goes out every week.
• 24:49
  Permelia: Usually incorporates our the Heal the World Show podcast that I do every week on LinkedIn Live and also information about the practitioners.
• 24:58
  Tom: Awesome.
• 24:59
  Tom: Well, that's great.
• 25:00
  Tom: We'll link all that up into the show notes as well.
• 25:03
  Permelia: Thank you.
• 25:03
  Permelia: Yeah.
• 25:04
  Tom: Well, Permelia thank you so much for being on the show today.
• 25:07
  Tom: It was a great conversation.
• 25:09
  Tom: I really appreciate you and what you're doing.
• 25:11
  Permelia: Well, thank you so much, Tom.
• 25:13
  Permelia: I love the fact that you've got this heart led business show.
• 25:16
  Permelia: You know, we need more heart in the world.
• 25:19
  Permelia: Absolutely.
• 25:20
  Permelia: So let's make that happen.
• 25:21
  Tom: Absolutely.
• 25:23
  Tom: And to our lovely listeners out there, please do what other smart and considerate listeners are doing.
• 25:28
  Tom: And that's leaving a rating and review because it really helps spread the word to other heart led business owners so that they can benefit from the stories and advice that Permelia has shared with us today.
• 25:40
  Tom: So until next time, lead with your heart.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to the Heart Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.