Latest / Skin Anarchy / Michelle Jacobs and Sally Mueller, Co-Founders of Womaness

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Michelle Jacobs and Sally Mueller, Co-Founders of Womaness · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Hi guys, welcome back to Skimpture Anarchy.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: This is your host, Ekta, and today I have with me the co-founders of a wonderful new brand that I've been trying.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the co-founders of the brand Womanness, uh, Sally Mueller and Michelle Jacobs.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, guys.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited you're here.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, thank you here.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'd love to get started um by just going into your backgrounds and just what led to womanness.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: So um, Sally, maybe you could get us started.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um we're so honored to be here.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you again.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my background, I've been actually in the world of retail and brand building for women for about 35 years.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, spent almost 23 and a half or 24 years at Target working in um a combination of roles, merchandising as well as marketing really helped um, you know, build the Target brand and the build their fashionability or their credibility in fashion.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um left about 11 years ago and in the last 11 years moved to the brand side of the business.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in the last five or six years, actually worked with Click Brands, um, the founder or the owners of the Who What Wear brand to help bring WhoWhat Wear to Target.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, really extend from a media brand into a line of product.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, recently expanded that that line internationally, which was really exciting.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love how you're just saying this so nonchalantly.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh yeah, by the way, I'm a badass.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it was fun.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm oversimplifying it.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was a lot of hard work and team effort.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, can't do anything without a phenomenal team.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it was it was exciting to just see it go from you know, this phenomenal media brand into a line of product that women all across the US could afford to buy because it was sold at Target.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it was, you know, really great fashion available to all women.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um actually helped create the brand Verst.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're probably very familiar with Verst um skincare brand that's also doing extremely well and sold at Target.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that was incubated out of the team that I was leading at Qlik at the time.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um so myself and and the team at Click really took it from literally inception all the way to my role was pre-launch at Target.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then Melanie Bender took over as the as the GM and is doing a phenomenal job as president of Click.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, or president.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think all of those experiences really obviously gave me the confidence, honed my skills in everything from marketing to product development to developing the right retail strategies so that um brands, whether they were in beauty or fashion, were successful.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my background.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um wow, I'm wowed.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: But Michelle, I would love to hear your background as well.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh I don't know if I'm as impressive as Sally.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're both very, very impressive.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Trust me.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um my background, um, well, I started my career at YF Consumer Healthcare, which is now Pfizer Consumer Healthcare.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, after I gone went to business school, then I was at Pfizer Consumer Healthcare for a few years, um, but then spent 10 years at Time Inc.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, after I left Pfizer, and I worked on the real simple brand primarily, but also worked on Cooking Light and InStyle, among a few other brands.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And also like Sally, I took those brands and looked at for licensing opportunities and product opportunities to grow and expand those brands in new ways outside of the just the content of the magazine.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was there for almost 10 years.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and after I left there, I was at Home Shopping Network for the past four years, where I worked on the Joy Mangano brand, which is she was the the big brand on HSN.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And her movie was coming out, the movie Joy about her life.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I helped her make that brand and expand into, you know, retailers like Target, the container store, Macy's, um, Lowe's, you know, you name it.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: We tried, we we got her in there, or we tried to get her in there.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was a really great experience.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think Sally and I's background are sort of similar in the sense that we like worked on a lot of women's lifestyle brands and really looked for ways to grow them, grow product, grow in all different ways outside of the core sort of media property that they work.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, and I mean both of you have seen like the this world like in a 360 sense, like from an aerial view, and that's amazing.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I'm so excited to um be hosting you both because I I can't wait to learn about how you approached a woman that so uh you know can we like kind of transition into that?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because I would love to hear about the brand journey.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a great there's a great story.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think the there were a couple things that um kind of came together.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I I had a personal story that I'll I'll get into.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then um Michelle also had a personal story that really inspired us to create this, but then professionally we're very, as as you already picked up on it, we're very good at like identifying white spaces, yeah, and really figuring out what the business opportunity is, what the brand, how the brand should be positioned.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the professional side.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: But on a personal front, uh I had the pleasure of, or the I think just the honor of being um patient at the male clinic, very reputable place, as you know.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and found myself in this really interesting conversation with one of the female doctors in the women's health clinic, and it was about vaginal dryness and painful sex.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was, you know, she was asking some really good questions, and I felt kind of embarrassed, but I probably shouldn't.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I had no idea that what I was feeling was actually related to my menopause.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I was a menopause, but I didn't really realize that the symptoms I was experiencing were related to menopause.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And she was so empathetic and said, Listen, Sally, I see patients all day long that are in the same boat you are, so don't feel bad.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And here's, you know, some product that I would recommend that you purchase.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I went home that night and I always like to say my husband was really excited that I was finally going to deal with this issue.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I finally said to him, I'm not going to buy any of these products.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, none of them spoke to me, ECTA.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: They were names, yeah, the names were horrible.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was the best, it was literally no disrespect to the doctor.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was the best out there.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, um, I just thought, why am I not creating a brand for women in menopause?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's got to be a lot of women like me that are going through this.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: And well, every woman goes through it.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's yeah, I mean, this is truly a white space.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, so this was a couple of years ago, I was seeing, you know, the shaving space blowing up with Harry's and all of these new brands that were creating new toothbrushes, right?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: The whole quip, you know, just movement towards just better toothbrushes and toothpaste that was clean and clean deodorant and everything, so clean everything.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So on an upcoming trip to New York, Michelle and I were having a glass of wine, and I told her that I wanted to really, you know, create a brand around menopause for women like me.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, oh my gosh, this sounds amazing.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then and I'll let Michelle speak to what also inspired her.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So Michelle Yes, Michelle, please tell us your story.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had been kind of, we I think we, you know, we stayed in close contact all these years that we were friends, and she knew that I was sort of my own, you know, career transition.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was really sort of struggling with what I wanted to do next.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I found that a lot of my friends who were all in their late 40s, early 50s, were all sort of in the same boat.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody, I felt like there was something in the air where it was like everybody was sort of thinking what was their next career move.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um they weren't necessarily feeling super inspired, but they were really inspired by their own ideas and kind of doing something on their own, or contracting, or freelancing, or starting their own companies.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember saying to Sally, like, somebody needs to write a book about these women.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like they were so successful and so impressive and so full of wisdom, yet like they didn't feel like staying in like the corporate tracks they were in.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And those two ideas, sort of where Sally was coming from and where I where my head was, were really what kind of crystallized um this the idea behind womanness, which was creating a product line for women like us, these modern, sophisticated, discerning, what we considered young women.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um certainly not sort of this vision of this, you know, dried up, wet menopausal, you know, woman.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like that terrible portrait that's just you know what I mean, like projected to society, I feel like about women reaching a certain age and we all just like turn into prunes or something.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like yeah, that's that's really fascinating.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think, you know, my mom is in her 80s and she's you know very proud of the fact that she never had a hot flash, and she just doesn't really remember menopause that much.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so many of our our generation, I mean, our parents' generation, they just really didn't want to admit that menopause was a thing.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and I think that's what's changing.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Michelle and I feel like we're in the middle of this movement.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, you definitely are.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like, you know, I just want to say that um, you know, with my medical background, I know like we have to ask patients, you know, questions.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, Sally, when you were, you know, describing your experience and and your story with that doctor, I completely know because I've seen patients on the daily that I have to ask about their sex life or I have to ask about their sexual history or their, you know what I mean?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and they're all all of these women look at me like I'm crazy for asking.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, I have to know because you know, if something is wrong, we have to know.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, women don't want to talk about it.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, I completely agree with you.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: That point, you know, it's it's very huge.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this generation is is open, opening up, wanting to talk about it, want to talk to you know, other women.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why the community piece of our brand is so important, but there's a huge opportunity to educate women.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't mean that there needs to be another menopause book out there.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have no intention of necessarily publishing a book on menopause.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: What we think is important is just helping to bring in these kind of experts along the way around, you know, the topics that are are top of mind for all these women, whether it's you know, vaginal dryness, painful sex.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many different um opportunities to really go deeper into those subjects.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's different for everyone, right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Sally, like I mean, it's it's different.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Menopause is like, I think of it like, you know, think of puberty, how puberty is different for everybody.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it's menopause, you know.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we all don't get the same symptoms.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: But um, Michelle, I would love for you to actually um tell me a little bit more about the the community aspect of the brand because I, you know, I think that that's an excellent point that Sally brought up.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, community is everything these days, especially in the beauty industry, I've noticed.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, how was that in terms of when you guys were brand like building the brand and like thinking of your consumers?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what was the whole process like?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, it was interesting because one of the first things we did was a series of uh focus groups.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: We did some in New York, we did some in uh Wisconsin, and we talked to women a lot about what their symptoms were and what was going on with their lives.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the information that came from that really guided us into our product development.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, knowing the fact that I know we're gonna talk about community, but just a moment on product.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: The reason we created 13 products for this line is because there were so many different symptoms that these women talked about that we felt like we had to address all of them.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: We couldn't really just make this a sexual wellness brand or a skincare brand.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: But again, going back to the community piece, you know, we we from the very, very get-go, we said, you know, this isn't just about our experience with menopause, it's about women in our generation, women that we know.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: So these focus groups really led us to understand that one women needed information and they felt comforted by what was going on with other women and they wanted advice and they wanted to talk about it and they wanted to laugh about it, and they wanted to feel normal.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, hand in hand with creating this product line was to create an at least an access point for women to build these communities.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we have our private Facebook group called the After Party, which is really just for women to get information.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm joining that, by the way.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean it's great.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the after party, and it it's again kind of turns the whole thing on its head where it's that that's where the fun happens after the party's over.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like lighthearted, but at the same time, sometimes there are there are more heavy-hitting questions, and we have experts that will come on and answer questions from our community.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: We also have an ambassador program where we ask women, hey, like if you like what we're doing, like tell your friends, because it is hard to reach this woman.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she's super busy, she's doing a million things.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And really the best way for us to get the word out is word of mouth.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So our ambassador program also is where we help women kind of get the word out, um, you know, talk about the products, have a way to make some money on the side by having like uh affiliate codes and discount codes to help and share with their friends.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: But really, it's about like creating a place where you know women feel like themselves.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're not can they are not, they don't see this other woman that they're like, who is that?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that was really important for us.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um we use our community, like I said, not just for like getting together.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: We share experts, we get information for our products, we do a lot of focus groups, we do a lot of polling.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it's not just good for them, it's good for us as well.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I love that you, you know, really explained that you know, women are not as open right now to talking about it.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: So they really love that opportunity.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you know, I want to go into this whole idea of like promoting that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I know that you guys really believe in the power of like, you know, menopause and like positivity around it.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, could we talk about that and how that process, like, you know, I'm I'm guessing it was very difficult to get this brand off the ground because the the whenever you're filling a white space, it's always more difficult, right?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's an uphill battle.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to talk a little bit about you know, promoting this image of gene being more positive about menopause and how that was from the beginning to like, you know, to really put this message out there.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Or did you guys get a lot of resistance or, you know, any hurdles?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't, I wouldn't say we got resistance.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of the idea of menopausity came from those initial focus groups where women told us that they wanted to look at it through more of a positive lens.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they also wanted to have a little humor, as Michelle already said.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So laugh about some of the some of the things that we're going through.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's, you know, it really came from them.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, sure, we are also very empathetic because at times menopause can be tough.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not tone-deaf to what's really happening.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I think looking at it through, you know, a positive lens is what you know, what we're doing inspire other women too.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's really working.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, women are very excited about it, you know, saying things to us, even through email, but you know, finally um a brand is here to address this, you know, this phase of life.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you spend 30% of your life in menopause.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just it's not that is very real when you put it like that.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's very real.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not a a month, right?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a 10-year span of time.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And once you go through it, then you're, you know, you're just you're just kind of post-menopausal, right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's just okay, but your life has changed.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: And well, I just I think that this is very interesting because the you know, the reason I'm so I'm so behind um what you're doing is because I know that, you know, my family came from India, and I know a lot of women that are from immigrant um, you know, backgrounds and stuff, they're very reluctant um in not only just talking about menopause and their sexuality, but just addressing their own health in general.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: So when you put this kind of a product out in the market and it's so available, you know, the availability, the accessibility of it, it's not it's not just hitting the demographic that that's talking to you.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's hitting a demographic of women that don't feel comfortable because of their cultural background, even talking about it.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, this is like much bigger than you know, even what we can express in this podcast because it's it's a movement, you know, it really is.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a huge movement.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I you guys are amazing for doing this, really.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, we're we're so excited about just making a difference.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we do like to say, you know, menopause does not discriminate.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Every single woman in the world will help the menopause.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if we can make our products not only useful, you know, they actually do make a difference.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: They actually are, you know, they work hard for you, but you can afford them too.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it was super important that, you know, the price points stay, you know, very affordable for the average person.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I and you know, I love that.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to actually ask you because I know uh Michelle, you were mentioning some experts earlier.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd love to hear about what were who were some of the some of the people that really played a big role in the initial formulation and the you know the design of the actual products.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I know, you know, you you both mentioned and we all agree that menopause is very, very different and unique for everybody, right?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, what were some of the key points that you guys wanted to focus on from the get-go?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like the number one place we got the best information was from those initial focus groups and from our own community.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah hearing what women were concerned about, both from like what ingredients they were looking for, what ingredients they didn't want to include, you know.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So for instance, you know, hearing from our community, we ended up saying like we didn't want to put estrogen or any hormones in any of our products.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that wasn't because we're anti-estrogen or we're not, you know, we're not pro-HRT.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: We actually are pro whatever works for you in your body.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: But we heard from a lot of women who are cancer survivors or who had other issues and reasons.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: So early on, we said, okay, you know, we don't want to have we don't want any, we don't want to exclude anybody from being able to use our products.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we are vegan, we're um cruelty-free, we're hormone-free, estrogen-free, and our clean list was very specific to what we heard from our customers.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say, you know, first and foremost, we heard what the what our our focus group group of women were telling us.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and also, like I said, sort of what what the what were their points of pain about, you know, like uh, you know, skin on their neck, skin on their body, incontinence, sexual wellness.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was a really good starting point.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And from there, we used a lot of experts in those industries, whether they were formulators, they were doctors, or they were, you know, people who just really understood skin care.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: We we talked to a lot of people and put together formulations that really made sense for the issues we were trying to solve.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then the last, well, there are two more pieces to it, but then the the second to last piece we did was really run all of our ingredient lists by doctors we knew and worked with.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was a gynecologist we worked with.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a doctor at the Mayo Clinic, Dr.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Ekta Kapoor, who has been a really great um advisor to us and you know, advocate of what we're trying to do.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: She weighed in on just, you know, again, kind of what she would recommend to our her patients so that we can incorporate some of that into what we were doing.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, like I said, dermatologists we knew.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: We really ran all of the ingredients by people who we trusted in the in the industry.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, we did a lot of testing.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: We actually did like official third party testing where we did dermatologists tested, gynecologists tested.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Our skincare, we did a very large in-home use test with over 70 women and had them use the product for two to four weeks and comment on the product.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: So on every step of the way, we we really kind of checked ourselves to make sure we were doing something that was specific for menopause, you know, like it wasn't just another skincare line.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: We made sure everything was ultra hydrating, ultra, ultra moisturizing.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: We thought about collagen and the collagen depletion in your skin.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: We thought about smoothing your skin on your neck and on your legs and on your arms.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't just do face care, face um creams, we did body creams as well.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, we, you know, with sexual wellness was a huge piece of this.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Our supplements, we worked with an amazing formulator who went through every ingredient you could imagine and helped pull together things that would be very efficacious to our customers.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we used ingredients that had clinical data behind it, like pycnol, which is an amazing ingredient for hot flashes and night sweats, ashwagandha for mood and calm.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: We use long veto, which is turmeric related to help with joint pain.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we really spent a lot of time.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you guys really went through it.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's that's really cool that you went through like so many.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, once again, all the symptoms.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's like targeted every yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a great uh incontinence pad, which I a friend of mine told me this weekend, she's been using it.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: She said, This is really better than anything else I've used in the in in the past.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like a cotton, a cotton top uh incontinence pad with a biodegradable but bottom sheet, which again just is more comfortable.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: The the packaging isn't embarrassing.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just all like to again show, give this product woman she deserves at this point.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that you brought up the embarrassing part because I'm not gonna lie, there's nothing fun about buying an incontinence pad, you know, before because I it just looks so like sterile, you know what I mean?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of the products, like, and that's the biggest problem.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: And and I kind of want to shift into your packaging um because it's absolutely gorgeous, by the way.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, but like I want to I want to talk about that because I know that women, um, you know, they we go to the store and then when we see things that are like our personal hygiene products, they're always like in this one area, and it's like, I feel like I'm going to another doctor's office or like I'm trying to be.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know the bottom off we like to say acta.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that that's why I want to so you know, perfect segue, right, into your packaging.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, when what were some of the things you guys were really considering um before putting this on the shelves, like in terms of you know, how you wanted women to feel when they first saw your line?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um do you want to take that, Michelle, or do you want me to?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'll I'll start and you can jump in.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, one of the things that was most important was that the product felt sophisticated.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um this might be too specific for, you know, to get into, but there's a lot of you know, product and packaging made for what you say millennials, you know, women who are in their 20s and 30s, and it there's a sort of style to that.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we really wanted to choose colors and uh and a texture, and the whole thing was about feeling a little more sophisticated than what you would normally see out there.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, kind of speaking to her.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we used these like rich aubergines, we used like this deep red, um, because we just felt like it had a richness to it that we felt again this you know lent itself to the product and to who we were trying to reach.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, it's it's complicated and not complicated at the same time.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: We just really wanted the packaging to be beautiful and feel good in the hand and you know, look nice on the shelf.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and Sally, maybe you can comment on this, but like I think, you know, uh like contrary to what people are saying, I think it's like the new trend to say, well, packaging shouldn't matter.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, it absolutely matters, you know.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like I want to feel comfortable when I check out and I want to feel like what I'm looking at, I want to buy.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: So can you like maybe you can add to what Michelle said?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I mean, just to add, in addition to, you know, why we chose the palette, we also chose, you know, using glass componentry for some of our items because we felt like it looked beautiful, plus it's more sustainable, yeah, obviously, than plastic.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we felt like that was a good decision.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have frosted glass.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: We also invested it in quite a few of our components that are actually part of the experience.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a cooling roller with our LUT snack product that just feels incredible.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like massaging and cooling at the same time.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how you apply the serum.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it actually comes from France, so it's very expensive for us.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: We invested a lot in that um component because we felt so strongly about having almost like a luxurious experience, even though our points, our price points are not luxury.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that matters, that matters a little.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then our our eye opener it has the same kind of cooling tip so that you kind of, you know, again, not only cooling but massage under your eye as you're applying the eye cream.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's we really chose to to invest in the the overall product experience, you know, not just the formulations, but the overall experience and make sure that the experience is built right into the packaging.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it it definitely is because, you know, like I said, like I think women, we we generally look for things that we connect with and like colors and the the feeling of a product is huge, you know, it's huge.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and we can't pretend like it's not.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think, you know, you guys did a beautiful job.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: I really love your packaging.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think the colors are phenomenal, and I love deep colors as well.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, hats off to that.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I I really want to actually ask you guys because you brought up a great point about millennials and the younger generation.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, like I'm 35 and I'm I'm hitting that point where I'm becoming, you know, I'm in that peri-menopause area, right?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're all in that phase until we hit menopause.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm, you know, as a consumer, I'm becoming trying to become more conscious about it.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, what is some advice you guys have, you know, just as successful businesswomen for everyone out there listening, like in terms of embracing this phase, you know what I mean?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's so smart that you asked that because um Dr.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Ekta Kapoor, that's working with us, has been really inspiring to Bishelle and I.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: And well, I'm the second Ecta in your life.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: I know my other Ekta.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: She um, you'd love her by the way, but she has really taught us that women in their 30s should start to become more educated about going into perimenopause and menopause.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And she doesn't, she feels that we have an obligation to actually inspire and educate that generation of women.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we're seeing in in frankly, in our sales so far, that we're reaching very, very young women, 25, 35.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we're super excited about that.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think women younger that your generation are more open to learning things sooner and talking about it and not, you know, getting things kind of out on the table.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think it's going to be just, as I said, we're really in this movement.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's going to be just incredible over the next five years how much this conversation will change.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and grow.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I think it's so, it's so great what you said because I can honestly say that I think, you know, I don't speak for obviously every woman in my generation, but from my perspective as someone who is educated and someone who wants to care about her health, hearing from women such as yourself helps me.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like we need, we need to be able to look up to the next generation and say, this is they're leading us into a phase of our life and we have to trust them.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's huge, you know what I mean?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: For me as a consumer, just like interviewing you guys and talking to you, like this makes me feel more comfortable.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like that, okay, this is a safe place that I'm about to, you know, enter in my life.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that's so important to get that message out there.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I agree with the other ECTA.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing the other ECTA says is that you really need to be your own advocate with your doctor, your whole kind of medical community that you surround yourself with, and um ask the right questions.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't feel like you're getting an answer, you got to push to get the answer or switch doctors.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so really teaching women what questions to ask and giving them the confidence to really push for those answers.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: We hear from a lot of women that they did go to their doctor when they started feeling like things were changing and they weren't happy with the with the advice that they got.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And their doctors weren't informed.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really making sure that they're really pushing or seeking out the best, the best advice.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And there's places for them to go.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, not only, you know, we're not a telehealth brand at all, but there are other telehealth services that are popping up out there.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, hopefully this the information that we'll have on our website will be inspiring enough.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's all about laying stepping stones too, right, Sally?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's like, you know, you guys are creating, you know, one one or two of the stones in this huge movement.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, that actually leads me to a question I have um, just from the business standpoint about how that's been, like watching this industry, like now that you've introduced this, you know, this new, you know, area for skin health and and just I guess women's health overall, how is that from a business standpoint?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, in terms of like the response, do you think that there's like a like a movement where people are shifting their consumer habits and like investing more in like you know, like brands like this, or do you think that it's kind of staying the same?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Have you noticed anything?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it's a huge opportunity.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think women, you know, whether you're 60, 70, they're if you lean into wellness and you're and you're aware of, you know, the food that you're consuming, you know, a lot of women are more into fitness than ever before.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Their demand, they want product with better and cleaner formulations.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's much more of a cross-generational movement that's happening.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so, I mean, we feel like we're really well positioned to be uh servicing that woman no matter what her age is.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's the type of woman, you know, that I think will we will be, we're already appealing to, and we'll be appealing to more of those women in the future.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love that.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: I really love that.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, everyone listening out there, I really urge you guys to do a little bit of research into menopause because, you know, if there's anything we can do, it's at the very least, to start a conversation, right?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like there's such little information out there, and you know, in terms of just being in the public eye.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that actually, I want to ask you, what was your first like top seller product?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: I just I'm just curious um when you launched.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're go ahead, Michelle.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean, we've done it's been interesting because um our top five products kind of keep rotating around.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that sort is that's a good thing because as we developed the product line, we said, you know, women have all different issues.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: So some days we see let's let's neck and the works have been like top sellers since you know day one, which are both body and skincare products.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's neck is for your neck and the works is for your whole body.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: But our menopause supplement has been at the top of the list, our active glow supplement has been at the top of the list, and as well as our daily V, which is our water-based um vaginal lubricant.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of amazing to us because, well, I mean, it's it's not, I guess it's not really that amazing because we we our hypothesis was that you know, women at this age need a lot of different things and they are looking for these modern solutions.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it's very encouraging to see that those top five kind of continue to be the top five, but those are the ones that it seem to be the most um that were really speaking to women the most.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know, that says something, right?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I asked because I'm like, I wonder what women are most gravitated towards, you know what I mean, like what really draws them in.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I hear you, those are some great products, and I know I've had the privilege of trying a few of them, and I've loved them.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so thank you for sharing that.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I actually want to um I want to ask a little bit more about like what led you to Target um in terms of accessibility.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like how did you guys decide um what retailers to really go for in terms of you know reaching the biggest audience and really making this available to as many women as you could?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think, you know, listen, Target's done an amazing job reaching this woman, you know, through all of our life stages.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it just seemed like a natural fit for us.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a great place to launch and build a brand as well.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that was important to us to have, you know, a partner that that um is so supportive and skilled in that area, you know.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh retailers out there are great at, you know, what they do best, but not all of them are great at building a brand.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: And Target really, really is very skilled and sophisticated in that area.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, it's a you also have to think about the consumer that we're reaching, as I already said, you know, someone who's very aware of uh wellness, who is willing to invest in her own self-care, um and um a very well-rounded woman.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're finding our woman is is um very versatile, she's into a lot of different interests, um, very busy woman, and I think she's definitely um a multi-tasker and she's she's shopping at Target.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean I love Target.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I asked you because honestly, I've discovered more things in Target than I think I have to do.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great place to discover new new products.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they're all about helping their guests.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, given that we are solving a problem with a real total solution, it it it's a it's a perfect match.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I love Target.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I'm I'm really glad you guys are there.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: I I know I've walked in many times and just been like, you know what, I've never seen this item before.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Let me try it.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, definitely a good match.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: I can definitely see that from a consumer standpoint.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I really want to know though, um, you know, for the future, what's next for Womaness?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know you guys have a lot going on right now, and it's an amazing brand.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: It really is.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, do you have anything coming up?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, we're we're very focused, obviously, on growing um our business with Target as well as our our own e-commerce site.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're getting a lot of interest from women, even in the UK, Australia.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really interesting.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Canada.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so lots of people reaching out to us asking if we ship overseas.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, for Michelle and I, I think it's really it's much more about building just a louder voice and and really helping to create this movement that that we started.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, because we're just so excited about making, again, more positive impact in women's lives, just reaching more women.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's such an opportunity to just reach more women here in the US.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, they 50 million women go through menopause every at any given time.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, you know, we we have so many more women to reach just with what we have already developed.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really our focus and continuing to tell the story and educate, bring in, you know, a lot more content to help inform women.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna be seeing a lot more um educational series from us leveraging, you know, our our experts, such as Dr.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Kapoor.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we're really excited about just really delivering on it on the vision that we set out to create.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: Michelle, do you have anything to add?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, I I I that sums it up for sure.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think we have a lot more to say.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think women need information and finding the way to get her that information is it's gonna be super important for us.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um no, I mean, I I agree with what Sally said.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's we we have a lot more ahead of us.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's just really telling our story and making sure women know that we're out there.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, I want to just make this point again is that, you know, for all the listeners out there, like, you know, it's I've seen this happen so many times in my life, you know, like that there are a lot of women that, like I said, from different cultural backgrounds that might be in the States and we have more freedom here.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, let's be real, we have more freedom as women in this country than most Middle Eastern countries.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: And when you try a product and it works for you and you feel that sense of empowerment, you're that that woman that you've impacted, she's gonna go back to her sisters and you know, wherever home is and tell them, like, hey, listen, this exists and you know, we can use this stuff.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: This works for us as women, and so that is, I think, more so powerful.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that that impact that you guys are gonna have or are having is it's so so powerful.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I just want to relay that message to everyone listening because this is huge.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you very much.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: So excited about again reaching and really, you know, like we just there's there's only I mean, there's so many women out there, like you said, not only in the US, but how do we impact women across the world?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: So Right, right.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I want to thank you guys so much for your time.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: This has been amazing, Sally and Michelle.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: We love what you're doing.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that you're doing this as well as your medical practice is very impressive.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been such an honor hosting you and everyone listening out there.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you have any questions uh for Sally and Michelle's team, please leave them in our our comment section on the cover art.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you have any questions for us, leave them.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll be back next time.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Ecta.
• 41:07
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• 41:10
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• 41:14
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• 41:58
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• 42:14
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