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Cheerleader Laken Snelling Sobs for Judge, Seeks Release, Baby Wrapped in Plastic · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Tonight, a beauty queen and Kentucky cheerleader, Lakin Snelling, sobs
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: in front of a judge, but then turns around and
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: seeks early release after her baby boy is found wrapped
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: in plastic, dead, stuffed in a closet. Good evening. I'm
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: you for being with us.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: This is a woman who lives in a fantasy world,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: not a reality world.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: There's a dead baby in her closet.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: When she put that baby in the plastic bag, she
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: threw the cleaning material on top of it. She was
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: attached to herself and she was attached to the idea
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: of an idealized life.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Good evening.
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: Representing Jefferson County Fair, I am Laken Stirling.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Lakin attends the University of Kentucky and she's 20 years
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: of age.
• 1:13
  Speaker 5: Her peers are Terry and Michelle Snelling, of course.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Making the Dean's List while also being.
• 1:19
  Speaker 5: A student athlete.
• 1:21
  Speaker 6: Division I athlete on the STEM team at the University
• 1:27
  Speaker 6: of Kentucky.
• 1:28
  Speaker 5: 100 plus community service hours in the past year.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: Honored to be crowned a Jefferson County Fairies to the
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: Fair and being able to represent her county.
• 1:38
  Speaker 7: Lakin Snelling's baby was born full term and alive. She
• 1:42
  Speaker 7: took photos of herself during labor, which she later deleted,
• 1:45
  Speaker 7: and it's claimed in the affidavit she did that to
• 1:47
  Speaker 7: conceal the fact that she ever gave birth. According to
• 1:50
  Speaker 7: the affidavit, Lakin gave birth around 4 a.m. on August 27th.
• 1:53
  Speaker 7: She told medical staff that the baby was moving. whimpering
• 1:57
  Speaker 7: and that she guessed that the baby was alive at
• 1:59
  Speaker 7: the time. Then she said at 9 30 AM, she
• 2:01
  Speaker 7: left for class, but she never actually went to class.
• 2:03
  Speaker 7: She just sat in the parking lot. And then she
• 2:06
  Speaker 7: ordered McDonald's through.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: The McDonald's app.
• 2:08
  Speaker 7: She then claims that she went and got the food,
• 2:10
  Speaker 7: went to the university of Kentucky student clinic, where she
• 2:12
  Speaker 7: also did not go inside and returned home.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: That's Jalen Johnson on YouTube. Okay. Wait a minute. Let
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: me get this straight. Cleaning materials were stuffed on top
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: of the dead baby boy, the newborn. She took photos
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: and videos of herself during labor, then deleted them, leaving
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: the infant stuffed, wrapped in plastic, stuffed in a closet, dead.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: She goes and orders food at McDonald's. Okay, I think
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I got all that straight, but what did she tell police?
• 2:53
  Speaker 7: Lakin told police she was awake for about 30 minutes
• 2:55
  Speaker 7: after giving birth before falling on top of the baby.
• 2:58
  Speaker 7: When she woke up from passing out, she got up
• 3:00
  Speaker 7: and observed that the baby was turning blue and purple.
• 3:02
  Speaker 7: She said she believed him to be dead at that point,
• 3:04
  Speaker 7: wrapped the baby up like a burrito, and laid next
• 3:06
  Speaker 7: to the baby. She was then woken up by her
• 3:09
  Speaker 7: 7.30 a.m. alarm, at which point she went into the
• 3:11
  Speaker 7: kitchen to get a black trash bag. She told police
• 3:13
  Speaker 7: she came back into her room, placed the baby, still
• 3:15
  Speaker 7: wrapped in the towel, in the trash bag, then put
• 3:18
  Speaker 7: the trash bag inside the closet. She then took a
• 3:20
  Speaker 7: shower to clean up all the blood and put the
• 3:21
  Speaker 7: placenta in a Ziploc bag. And then she placed all
• 3:24
  Speaker 7: of that back into the trash bag.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I really don't know where to go from there. That's
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Jalen Johnson on YouTube. Joining me, an all-star panel. What
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out is I'm trying to reconcile
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: the dichotomy of Lake and Snelling, the beauty queen slash
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Kentucky cheerleader. There she is in court sobbing hysterically. But
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: then tonight, trying to get early release. I've stated this
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: many times and it's anecdotal. I don't have a statistic,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: but I noticed when I was prosecuting felonies in inner
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: city Atlanta, that when the victim is a baby or
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: a newborn, they seem to have less life value. Is
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: it because no one can testify about all the things
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: that they accomplished in life, about their personality? they're, quote,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: just a baby. What, the baby doesn't matter? Because with
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: this guilty plea, she's likely to do less than eight
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: years behind bars for asphyxiating the baby, asphyxiating, that means
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: strangling or suffocating the baby, wrapping the baby in plastic,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: and stuffing the baby under cleaning supplies in her closet,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: then going out to feast at McDonald's. That's cold. That
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: is cold. I don't understand. And also, is it true
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: to Vanessa Walsh joining us, star of Unmasked True Crime,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: is it true that in court, Lake and Snellings did
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: not have to In other words, state what happened in court.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: She gave a simple excuse, something like, I deprived the
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: victim of oxygen. What does that mean? Is that what
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: she said in court? What happened, Vanessa?
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: All she would say when the judge asked her what
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: she did was that she was under extreme emotional distress
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: at the time and that instead of helping her baby boy,
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: that she ended his life. And when she was pressed
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: on that, She just said that she deprived him of oxygen,
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: but didn't go into any more specifics than that. And
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: at sentencing, she actually said nothing because of the publicity
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: that it received. She didn't give a statement or any
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: further details on what she did to her baby boy.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: To David Otunga joining us, veteran trial lawyer, you can
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: find him at davidotunga.com. David, thank you for being with
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: us tonight. When I took guilty pleas, so many, I
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: can't count them, well over 8,000 to 10,000 guilty pleas
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: over the course of 10 years in inner city Atlanta,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I rarely, if ever, took an Alford plea where the
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: person doesn't have to state that, yes, they did it.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: And if they couldn't bring themselves to give a rendition
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: of what happened, I happily, happily would swear them in
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: with the Bible, under oath, And I would read the
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: police report or give the account of what happened. And
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: then they had to say either yay or nay. And
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: if they said nay, the deal's off. So they would
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: be either recounting, elocuting the facts of the case themselves
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: or going along with what I got from the police report.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Why did Lake and Snelling get another choice bone thrown
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: her way? She doesn't even have to state what happened
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: to the baby. Why?
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: This was part of the negotiated settlement.
• 7:11
  Speaker 6: All she did was take accountability. And it was kind
• 7:16
  Speaker 6: of cryptic. She said that she took the baby's life
• 7:20
  Speaker 6: and then they went a little further. The judge asked
• 7:22
  Speaker 6: her how. And she said she deprived him of oxygen.
• 7:27
  Speaker 6: But that in and of itself is, like I said,
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: kind of cryptic. It doesn't tell us how. Was it
• 7:32
  Speaker 6: placing him in a trash bag? Was it passing out
• 7:35
  Speaker 6: on top of the baby?
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: Or was it? Another means. So this was just another.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: David Otunga. The woman went out and feasted at McDonald's.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Where are you getting passing out on top of the baby?
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: If she could put on makeup, do her hair. We've
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: seen her giving tutorials about her makeup regime and go
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: to McDonald's and then go to class and sit in class.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Are you actually listening to what she said? She passed
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: out on the baby. She said she deprived it of oxygen.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: And you're right, Otunga. That's telling me nothing. What does
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: that even mean? Deprive the baby of oxygen.
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: We'll see. That's exactly it.
• 8:20
  Speaker 6: It could be argued that she's not taking full responsibility
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: because she's not saying how she did it. But this
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: was what she initially told her friends or her roommates
• 8:30
  Speaker 6: in the Snapchat exchange is that she passed out. So
• 8:34
  Speaker 6: this was, this was a potential argument. Had she gone
• 8:36
  Speaker 6: to trial, who knows that she could have tried to use,
• 8:39
  Speaker 6: but I feel like this was more of just a
• 8:41
  Speaker 6: tactic of trying to not address the actual means of,
• 8:47
  Speaker 6: of how she killed the baby.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh. Okay. Well, I blame the prosecutors for this and
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: it reminds me a great deal. Uh, Mr. Otunga, uh,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: the Brian Koeberger case, as you know, the, the, weak
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: sister of the prosecution community botched the case and allowed
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Kohlberger to say basically nothing in court. Not that I
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: think you would have told the truth anyway, but let
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: me jog your memory, David.
• 9:20
  Speaker 8: With respect to count one, burglary, felony, how do you plead, Mr. Kohlberger,
• 9:24
  Speaker 8: guilty or not guilty?
• 9:26
  Speaker 9: Guilty.
• 9:27
  Speaker 8: As to count two, murder in the first degree, As
• 9:31
  Speaker 8: it relates to the murder of Madison Mogan, how do
• 9:34
  Speaker 8: you plead? Guilty or not guilty?
• 9:36
  Speaker 10: Guilty.
• 9:37
  Speaker 8: As to count three, as it relates to murder in
• 9:39
  Speaker 8: the first degree for the murder of Kaylee Gonsalves, how
• 9:42
  Speaker 8: do you plead? Guilty or not guilty?
• 9:43
  Speaker 9: Guilty.
• 9:44
  Speaker 8: As to count four, the first degree murder of Xana Curnodal,
• 9:50
  Speaker 8: pardon me, a human being, how do you plead? Guilty
• 9:52
  Speaker 8: or not guilty?
• 9:53
  Speaker 7: Guilty.
• 9:54
  Speaker 8: As to count five, the first degree murder of Ethan Chapin,
• 9:58
  Speaker 8: a human being, how do you plead? Guilty or not guilty?
• 10:01
  Speaker 9: Guilty.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, no.
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: Oh, no.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: He should not have been allowed to sit there all
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: well-groomed and manicured in his shirt and tie, flanked by
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: all of his attorneys getting paid hand over fist by
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: you and me, the taxpayer. and just say guilty. Oh no,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: I would have hoisted his scrawny ass straight up to
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: the podium and he could either tell what happened or
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: he could forget about the plea. You know why? You
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: know what's wrong with this, Dave Mack? The families, the
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: victims are all sitting there And they're listening. And they
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: get him, say, guilty. That's it. They still don't know
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: what happened. Same thing with the beauty queen cheerleader, Lakin Snelling.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: I deprived him of oxygen. And look, I'm just getting going,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Dave Mack. She's got a sweetheart deal. And I guarantee you,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: she's going to be out of jail in five years.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: I guarantee you. And when we go through the amenities
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: she's getting behind bars. But first, why, Dave Mack, was
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: she allowed to just Say I deprived him of oxygen.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: She never took accountability. She killed this baby, a newborn,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: and then went out and had what? A sausage McMuffin?
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: No problem. Like nothing had even happened. He was like
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: trash to her, stacking the cleaning supplies on his dead body.
• 11:28
  Speaker 11: Why do we treat the life and death of an
• 11:31
  Speaker 11: infant different than we would an adult? This child was born,
• 11:37
  Speaker 11: was breathing, and she deprived him of life, but did
• 11:41
  Speaker 11: not have to tell us exactly what happened. All we
• 11:45
  Speaker 11: have are the statements she made early on, Nancy, of
• 11:49
  Speaker 11: what took place. She was not made to elocute at sentencing.
• 11:55
  Speaker 11: She merely pleaded guilty to first-degree manslaughter and abuse of
• 12:02
  Speaker 11: a corpse, tampering with physical evidence, and concealing the birth
• 12:04
  Speaker 11: of an infant. She was not made to give us
• 12:08
  Speaker 11: details as to what took place. We actually know more
• 12:11
  Speaker 11: about what happened that morning from her roommates and their
• 12:14
  Speaker 11: Snapchat discussions that were going on, where they discussed what
• 12:18
  Speaker 11: they were hearing in the room and not what Lake
• 12:22
  Speaker 11: and Snelling didn't tell us.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Speaking of the roommates, if it hadn't been for them,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: this little baby, Cade, would have been thrown out like
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: he was trash and no one would ever have even
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: known he took a breath.
• 12:37
  Speaker 7: Now, Lakin's roommates were curious about her story. They were
• 12:39
  Speaker 7: very suspicious of her, despite her never confirming the fact
• 12:42
  Speaker 7: that she was pregnant to them. So they went into
• 12:44
  Speaker 7: her room after she left. They discovered a blood-soaked towel
• 12:46
  Speaker 7: on the floor and a plastic bag containing evidence of childbirth,
• 12:49
  Speaker 7: as well as a deceased newborn placed in that bag.
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: Back on August 27, 2025, Lakin's roommates reported hearing loud
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: noises coming from her bedroom early that morning. She later
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: claimed that she had passed out because she hadn't eaten
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: and told them that she was going to get checked
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: out by a doctor. But after she left, her roommates
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: went into her room where they discovered blood and eventually
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: found a newborn baby wrapped in a towel inside a
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: trash bag in her closet.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: That's Jalen Johnson on YouTube and Riley Liu News on TikTok.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: If it had not been for the roommates, we would
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: never have known that McCoy Cade had ever even lived.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I'm very curious. Did she not expand and give her
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: McDonald's order? Everything she did, she outlined. And I don't
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: know that we will ever be able to determine that.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Joining us tonight, renowned medical examiner, Dr. Kendall Crowns out
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: of Fort Worth, that's Tarrant County. He is a star
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: of YouTube's Mayhem in the Morgue. And he is the
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: esteemed lecturer at Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. How
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: can we tell what happened to Cade?
• 14:02
  Speaker 12: So from the autopsy, it can be difficult. Full-term baby,
• 14:05
  Speaker 12: there can be certain findings you can look for. But
• 14:08
  Speaker 12: the main question is, was the baby alive? And what
• 14:12
  Speaker 12: you're going to look at at autopsy is, were the
• 14:14
  Speaker 12: lungs expanded with air? You can actually put the lungs
• 14:17
  Speaker 12: on a glass of water and see if they float.
• 14:21
  Speaker 12: Shows that that's signs that they breathe. It's not always
• 14:25
  Speaker 12: the most technical way, and it's not the best way
• 14:29
  Speaker 12: of doing it.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Now, didn't you leave out a step? We've got a
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: newborn baby boy. And you're stating you put his lungs.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: You do what with his lungs?
• 14:40
  Speaker 12: So you can do what's called a float test. At autopsy,
• 14:43
  Speaker 12: you remove the lungs and you can place them in
• 14:45
  Speaker 12: a jar of water, see if they float. It's not
• 14:48
  Speaker 12: the most accurate way of determining if they breathed or not.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Kendall. What's your question? The part where you quote, do
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: a float test. This is a newborn, an infant. You
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: have to cut the infant open with the giant Y incision,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: tearing open his entire torso and cut out the lungs.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: That's what happened to this baby. That's what had to
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: be done to determine his cause of death. And then
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: you put the baby's lungs in water. and you see
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: if the baby's lungs float. And if they float, that
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: means there's air in them, so he took a breath.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: How big are an infant's lungs?
• 15:41
  Speaker 12: Just so we're clear that that float test is not
• 15:43
  Speaker 12: the most accurate way. Another way is you'll do microscopic analysis,
• 15:47
  Speaker 12: looking microscopically for air in the lungs. But how big
• 15:49
  Speaker 12: are the lungs? They're about a couple inches. They're not
• 15:52
  Speaker 12: very big. Baby's organs, of course, are proportionally more tiny
• 15:57
  Speaker 12: than an adult's lungs. So it's a couple inches in
• 16:00
  Speaker 12: size will be a newborn's lungs.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: To Dr. Duane Hendricks, former senior warden with the Federal
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Bureau of Prisons, now an expert correctional facility consultant, author
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: of Who Are You? See It, Say It, Seize It,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: and founder and CEO of the new Daylight Foundation.
• 16:27
  Speaker 13: Dr.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Hendricks, what will be her reception behind bars when it
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: is known by GP, general population, that she asphyxiated, suffocated
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: a baby whose lungs were about this big, a little baby,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: completely helpless, that was crying and making sounds. She suffocated it,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: wrapped it in plastic, put it in a trash bag,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: put it underneath a bunch of cleaning supplies like it's
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: a mop and left it. How does Gen Pop feel
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: about that?
• 17:06
  Speaker 10: Well, first of all, 58 percent of women incarcerated in
• 17:12
  Speaker 10: this country are mothers of minor children.
• 17:14
  Speaker 9: So that's that's going to be our first reception now.
• 17:17
  Speaker 10: Women that are incarcerated, they're not there for singing out
• 17:20
  Speaker 10: of tune in the choir. They're there because they committed crimes.
• 17:24
  Speaker 10: But she will have no friends or no family, what
• 17:26
  Speaker 10: I would call, once she get inside those facility walls.
• 17:31
  Speaker 10: And although they say that she has extreme emotional disturbances,
• 17:35
  Speaker 10: that is not, well, it's a legal concept. It is
• 17:37
  Speaker 10: not a psychiatric diagnosis. So there is no excuse for
• 17:42
  Speaker 10: her taking a life of her baby that she carried
• 17:46
  Speaker 10: for nine months, who It was in her womb. She
• 17:49
  Speaker 10: fed that baby. She talked to that baby.
• 17:51
  Speaker 9: And all of that.
• 17:52
  Speaker 10: And then when it was time to deliver, the baby
• 17:55
  Speaker 10: ended up dead. So she will have no reception there.
• 17:58
  Speaker 10: And her best hope is that she goes in there,
• 18:01
  Speaker 10: stays quiet and gets the help that she needs during
• 18:05
  Speaker 10: the time that she is incarcerated.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: What are you talking about? The help that she needs?
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: What help?
• 18:11
  Speaker 9: She needs some mental health treatment. Obviously, she has a
• 18:15
  Speaker 9: mental health.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, why, Dr. Hendricks? I'm sorry, I didn't realize you
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: were a medical doctor with an expertise in psychiatry. What
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: mental health? She killed the baby, put on makeup and hair,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: got dressed, and went to McDonald's and chowed down on
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: an Egg McMuffin. What mental health? Then she cried in
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: front of the judge and now wants early release.
• 18:43
  Speaker 10: Obviously, she needs some help, some mental treatment, because for
• 18:46
  Speaker 10: someone to take your own child's life, as soon as
• 18:50
  Speaker 10: this person is coming out of your womb, your first
• 18:54
  Speaker 10: reaction is to kill it. Obviously, whatever social media platform
• 19:00
  Speaker 10: and cheerleading and all of that was obviously more important
• 19:04
  Speaker 10: to her than the life that was breathing and living
• 19:07
  Speaker 10: inside of her womb.
• 19:09
  Speaker 9: And that is her only hope.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: And you know another thing. Have you ever heard the
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: story of the emperor's clothes where he basically is butt
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: naked and everybody's afraid to say anything? Could New York
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: pull up the video of her doing stunts? She's obviously pregnant.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: She's pregnant. And what? Nobody said anything? Okay, yeah. There's
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: a baby in there. And there are many more photos
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: of her. There you go.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Okay. Either she swallowed a cantaloupe or she's pregnant. And
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: everybody just acted like, hey, I don't see anything. I
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: don't know anything. You know, Karen Stark, I think very,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: very highly of Dr. Duane Hendricks. I mean, you cannot
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: be the senior warden with the Federal Bureau of Prisons
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: and write books and be this expert consultant to correctional
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: institutes all around the country without being kind of brilliant.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: That said, A medical doctor, he ain't. And he certainly
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: is not a psychologist, a forensic psychologist like you. And
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I think it's very hard for regular people that don't
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: have to study the criminal mind to think, oh, yeah,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: she's got to be crazy to do that. She is
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: not insane. She doesn't have any mental health defense at all.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: She hid her crimes. and went out and chowed down
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: at McDonald's and then went to class and took notes
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. She only got upset in front of
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: the judge when she thought it would help her. She
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: is not insane. She's not mentally ill and does not
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: need treatment. Without a doubt.
• 20:48
  Speaker 14: First of all, it's impossible to treat somebody like that
• 20:51
  Speaker 14: because this is somebody, Nancy, everybody needs to know that
• 20:57
  Speaker 14: this child was not real to her. It was an object.
• 21:00
  Speaker 14: It could have been a doll. Because we're talking about
• 21:03
  Speaker 14: Who could actually kill their own child and then treat
• 21:07
  Speaker 14: it like it was not human, right? That just stuff
• 21:12
  Speaker 14: it in this plastic bag, keep it in the closet.
• 21:15
  Speaker 14: So that's pathological. This is a very disturbed person in general,
• 21:22
  Speaker 14: but she does not need treatment. You can't treat somebody
• 21:26
  Speaker 14: who is that disturbed.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: She is sick.
• 21:30
  Speaker 14: Somebody who's narcissistic. You can see it. She takes zillions
• 21:34
  Speaker 14: of pictures. She doesn't care if she looks pregnant when
• 21:37
  Speaker 14: she's a cheerleader. She is not a caring, loving person.
• 21:43
  Speaker 14: So you can't treat her when she has an object
• 21:47
  Speaker 14: that it's a baby and she thinks it's not real.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Another issue that you just brought up regarding taking photos.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: It wasn't just photos. She took photos, and video of
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: herself in labor.
• 22:01
  Speaker 7: Lakin Snelling's baby was born full term and alive. She
• 22:04
  Speaker 7: took photos of herself during labor, which she later deleted,
• 22:08
  Speaker 7: and it's claimed in the affidavit she did that to
• 22:10
  Speaker 7: conceal the fact that she ever gave birth. According to
• 22:12
  Speaker 7: the affidavit, Lakin gave birth around 4 a.m. on August 27th.
• 22:16
  Speaker 7: She told medical staff that the baby was moving, whimpering,
• 22:19
  Speaker 7: and that she guessed that the baby was alive at
• 22:21
  Speaker 7: the time. around 4 a.m. on August 27th. One of
• 22:24
  Speaker 7: her roommates sent a message to their Snapchat group chat
• 22:27
  Speaker 7: where she said, heard loud noises like something had fallen.
• 22:30
  Speaker 7: Another roommate confirmed they heard it too and said it
• 22:32
  Speaker 7: lasted about an hour. At 8.48 a.m., Lakin responded in
• 22:35
  Speaker 7: the group chat stating that the noises were caused by
• 22:37
  Speaker 7: her passing out because she had not eaten and didn't
• 22:39
  Speaker 7: feel well.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: My point to you, David Otunga, joining us out of LA,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: a veteran trial lawyer. If you listen, that was Jalen
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Johnson on YouTube, by the way, summarizing what we know.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: The baby was born, according to her, alive. She took
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: photos of herself during labor and deleted it. Why did
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: she delete it? I mean, you hear Hendrix claiming, let's
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: see Hendrix. Hendrix, she took videos and photos of herself
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: during labor and knowing that she was going to kill
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: the baby, deleted it all so it would not be
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: on her phone. Now, if she's mentally ill, how did
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: she know to delete things from her phone?
• 23:22
  Speaker 9: There's something wrong with her. Now, again, I'm not a.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Psychologist, but something's wrong with her. That's a big step back.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: From give her the help she needs to, oh, yeah,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: there's something wrong with her. Okay, that ain't cutting it, Hendrix.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Keep your psychiatric opinions to yourself. No offense. Otunga, did
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: you hear all of the premeditation and planning, a forethought,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: and after the fact? I mean, I still can't get
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: over after killing your baby and stuffing it with all
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: the cleaning supplies. coming up with this story that it
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: was you making those whining and whimpering sounds the baby
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: was making, lying to your roommates there in their off-campus apartment,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: and then chowing down at McDonald's. Oh, how I would
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: love to see that receipt in that drive-thru video. That said,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: this woman was not mentally ill, and now she's getting
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: early release, crying in front of the judge. Then the
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: minute She gets out of that courtroom, starts plotting for
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: early release. David?
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: I mean, I have to agree with Hendrix, though. There's
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: definitely something wrong here.
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: I wonder why she took these photos in the first place.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Something wrong? Yeah, the baby's dead stuffed in the closet.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: That's what's wrong. Why are you and Hendrix? There's something wrong.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: That ain't cutting it, man.
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: I mean, she's obviously criminally minded here. She has the baby,
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: and then basically her acts like this didn't happen. She's
• 24:46
  Speaker 6: the only person who knows about it. tries to conceal it,
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: and then, you know, kills the baby, stuffs it in
• 24:52
  Speaker 6: the closet, and like you said, goes to McDonald's.
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: Who does that? Just acts like this is a regular day.
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: I don't think that's something that a reasonable person would
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: do in daily life and just go about their business.
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: So she's definitely criminally minded here.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Vanessa Walsh joining us. She is the star of Unmasked
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: True Crime. It's my understanding that Up until the moment
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: the judge sent her to jail, her family had bailed
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: her out. She was walking free on bond and could
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: actually travel back and forth between her mom's residence and
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: her dad's. Is that correct?
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: That is correct, Nancy. She was bailed out almost immediately
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: by her father. She was placed on house arrest. Initially,
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: she did not have an ankle monitor, but that changed.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: The judge later made her wear an ankle monitor. to
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: track her movements, but she would bounce between her dad's
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: house during the day and then her mom's house during
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: the nighttime.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Vanessa, guys, Vanessa Walsh is the star of Unmasked True
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Crime joining us tonight. Vanessa, if the victim had been
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: even a preteen, a tween, maybe even four or five,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: much less an adult female like yourself, and for instance,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: You had been asphyxiated, brutally smothered, then your body wrapped
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: in plastic and hidden in a closet underneath cleaning supplies.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I would be screaming for the max at the top
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: of my lungs, but she is already plotting an early release.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: It's already down to less than eight years. Isn't that true?
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: That is true. And it's quite shocking because She originally
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: was supposed to get the 10 years, but she will
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: be eligible for parole after serving less than eight in
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: February of 2034. Of course, that doesn't mean she will
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: actually be released, but she will be eligible at that
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: time after serving such a short sentence for committing such.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: A heinous crime. Vanessa, does the name Sean Combs, aka Diddy,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: aka Puff, aka Puff Daddy, aka Puffy, aka Love, so
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: many more aka known aliases does that name ring a
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: bell to you because he was convicted on two felonies
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: and he will be out any day now and he's
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: in the federal pen so why are you say stating
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: that she'll likely do eight years she's not she's not
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: going to do eight years vanessa.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: Well that's very possible and it would be Wonderful if
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: she'd serve out her entire sentence, but she will be
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: eligible in less than eight years, and she will only
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: be 30 years old if they do decide to release
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: her at that time when she's eligible in 2034.
• 27:52
  Speaker 13: Are you telling me that you are guilty of manslaughter
• 27:54
  Speaker 13: in the first degree, abuse of a corpse, tampering with
• 27:58
  Speaker 13: physical evidence, and concealing the birth of an infant?
• 28:01
  Speaker 10: Yes, ma'am.
• 28:02
  Speaker 13: Tell me what you did. I was under a lot
• 28:05
  Speaker 13: of emotional distress.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: And my baby came unexpectedly. And instead of helping him,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: I ended his life.
• 28:16
  Speaker 13: And afterwards, I.
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: Cleaned up and didn't tell him.
• 28:19
  Speaker 9: Okay.
• 28:20
  Speaker 13: So tell me when you say instead of helping him,
• 28:23
  Speaker 13: you did what?
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: I ended his life.
• 28:25
  Speaker 13: How did you end his life?
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: I deprived him of oxygen.
• 28:28
  Speaker 13: Okay. All right.
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: And.
• 28:31
  Speaker 13: Did you tell me about this tampering with physical evidence?
• 28:34
  Speaker 13: What did you do with the evidence that could have
• 28:36
  Speaker 13: been collected? I put the towels in a plastic bag. Okay.
• 28:41
  Speaker 13: And what about this concealing the birth?
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: I didn't tell anyone after.
• 28:45
  Speaker 13: Okay.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, my stars. O-H-E-L-L-N-O. If the judge asks, what did
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: you do? I would expect to hear, what did she do?
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: But instead, she was allowed to skate with those crocodile tears.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: And now, as soon as she gets out of the courtroom,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: planning an early release. Today, Matt, Crime Stories investigative reporter,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: where is Lakin Snelling tonight? Her first pit stop before
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: her forever home, the CEI, Correctional Institute, to which she
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: will be assigned, is diagnostic. What are her amenities at
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: her first pit stop?
• 29:24
  Speaker 11: The very first place she is being held at the
• 29:27
  Speaker 11: Fayette County Detention Center in Lexington, Kentucky. She is going
• 29:32
  Speaker 11: to be she has her access to a tablet. She
• 29:35
  Speaker 11: has access to the recreation yard, traditional weight room, gym.
• 29:40
  Speaker 11: Inmates are provided with designated daily recreation periods. They have
• 29:44
  Speaker 11: a day room. They have a secured recreation yard, but
• 29:49
  Speaker 11: this is a pretty standard thing with tablet, phone, messaging services,
• 29:54
  Speaker 11: smart communications provided via tablet and phone. They can make
• 29:58
  Speaker 11: collect calls, you know, debit calls, things like that.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: To Dr. Dwayne Hendricks, that when you go to the
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: pit stop diagnostic, first of all, why do you go
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: to diagnostic? It's like a cakewalk, but that said... You
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: have access to a tablet. Does nobody know the name
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch? We all had to look at his pale
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: white self in a shirtless selfie that he took on
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: his personal tablet. Oh, good gravy. Oh, there it is.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: There he is in all of his glory. Why do
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: inmates have iPads. Why do they have selfies? And then
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: we have Sean Combs, not to repeat his name again,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: I'm afraid I might conjure him up somehow, on a
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: private cell phone, which is against the rules. Why does
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Laken Snelling have a tablet? She can send pictures and
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: messages back and forth. I mean, if she's like Sean Combs,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: she'll have her own Jailhouse Insta account. What's next? A
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: book and a movie?
• 31:11
  Speaker 9: Why?
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 31:13
  Speaker 10: Well, tablets are used in prisons and jails now to
• 31:17
  Speaker 10: help streamline the commissary process. They also do programming. And unfortunately,
• 31:22
  Speaker 10: they do video visiting. But unfortunately, they use.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Them for nefarious activities. To streamline the commissary process. Did
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: you say that?
• 31:30
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Show Murdoch again, please. Could you explain to me how
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch is streamlining? Oh, dear Lord in heaven. The
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: commissary process with that program. He's probably got that on
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: a dating website right now.
• 31:48
  Speaker 10: It's unfortunate that inmates use these tools that the government
• 31:52
  Speaker 10: allows inmates to have for their own proclivities.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: You, you, you allow. Don't blame the government. You were
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the one. You were the warden, right? Weren't you a warden?
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: It was you. Don't blame the anonymous government. It was you.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Why do they have all these amenities? The baby is dead,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: stuffed under cleaning supplies. It had a big Y incision
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: and its chest was opened up and its lungs were
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: cut out to determine how it died, how the baby died.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: And she's on her iPad. She's got an Insta account.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: I guarantee you. Why is this happening?
• 32:33
  Speaker 10: Again, is to keep the inmates busy and also to
• 32:35
  Speaker 10: streamline these processes. But talking about the time that she's
• 32:40
  Speaker 10: going to be spending incarcerated, more than likely she's going
• 32:44
  Speaker 10: to be sent to the Lonnie Bottson C-Wing Unit, which
• 32:46
  Speaker 10: is a psychiatric unit at the Kentucky Correctional Institute for Women.
• 32:51
  Speaker 10: Once she is diagnosed, once they go through her mental
• 32:53
  Speaker 10: health history, safety risks, and all these other things, that's
• 32:56
  Speaker 10: probably where she's going to end up being housed. But
• 32:59
  Speaker 10: my concern, if she does get released early, is probably
• 33:02
  Speaker 10: because she may end up compromising a staff member at
• 33:06
  Speaker 10: one of these facilities and end up having an inappropriate
• 33:09
  Speaker 10: relationship and end up using that to actually get out
• 33:13
  Speaker 10: of prison. That is my one concern in terms of.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Whoa, wait.
• 33:19
  Speaker 13: Wait.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Did you just say inappropriate relationship? Are you talking about sex?
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I've never heard the word sex come out of your mouth,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: but is that... Is that what you're talking about? Yes.
• 33:31
  Speaker 10: I'm afraid that she may end up compromising a staff
• 33:34
  Speaker 10: member and having a sexual relationship with them and using
• 33:37
  Speaker 10: that situation in order to infatuate her ability to release
• 33:43
  Speaker 10: from prison a little bit early. If she's already searching
• 33:47
  Speaker 10: for early release, I'm almost certain that.
• 33:52
  Speaker 9: She may end up compromising someone, unfortunately, at that facility.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Vanessa Waltstar of Unmasked True Crime, as we were stating,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: the diagnostic, the first facility to which she goes is
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: just a pit stop. We believe she's going to a
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: minimum security prison. Do you know which one?
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: She'll be awaiting the state prison placement, which could take
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: up to 45 days after she's assessed to see what
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: medical and mental health program she needs and the programming
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: that she will qualify for.
• 34:26
  Speaker 10: Right.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Dave Mack, we believe that she is headed for Camp Cupcake.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Where do you, after studying all the possibilities, anticipate her
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: forever home to be? Well, at least for the next
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: five years.
• 34:42
  Speaker 11: Kentucky Correctional Institution for Women is in Pee Wee Valley,
• 34:47
  Speaker 11: Shelby County. This is where minimum and medium security custody
• 34:51
  Speaker 11: for women. They got multiple housing units, different security classifications.
• 34:56
  Speaker 11: So for Lake and Snelling, this is probably where she's
• 34:59
  Speaker 11: going to end up. She'll have everything you can possibly imagine, Nancy,
• 35:04
  Speaker 11: at her fingertips. On top of this, you know, when
• 35:07
  Speaker 11: she gave birth to her baby boy, she had just
• 35:12
  Speaker 11: begun her senior year of college. She's completed her three
• 35:15
  Speaker 11: years of college. She's only one year away from getting
• 35:18
  Speaker 11: her degree, and she'll be able to complete that. At
• 35:22
  Speaker 11: the Kentucky Correctional Institution for Women, they provide full education
• 35:25
  Speaker 11: opportunities for a bachelor's program and college.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: So she can get her master's while playing ping pong? Exactly.
• 35:33
  Speaker 9: She can do all of that.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: David Otunga, veteran trial lawyer, you don't see a problem here?
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, this woman has skated through life, never accountable
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: for anything. I mean, I'm at a loss for words, frankly.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I feel you, Nancy, because morally.
• 35:58
  Speaker 9: this sentence seems far too light.
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: And like we're hearing, she'll be able to finish her
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: college degree.
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: She'll have access to the internet, Snapchat.
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: She'll be posting selfies, who knows what.
• 36:11
  Speaker 9: So this is.
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: Not too much of a departure from her life, except
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: for that she will be confined. And while this result
• 36:19
  Speaker 6: might not be morally just, unfortunately, it is legally just.
• 36:24
  Speaker 6: I mean, she was given 10 years, which is the
• 36:27
  Speaker 6: minimum in the plea arrangement. And she has to serve
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: at least 85% of that, which will put her at
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: eight and a half years. But we already know she
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: has credit over 400 days for a time served under
• 36:39
  Speaker 6: house arrest. So yeah, she could be getting out or
• 36:42
  Speaker 6: at least has the possibility of early parole, you know,
• 36:46
  Speaker 6: in eight years or less.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: They said that about Sean Combs too. And he's got
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: one foot out the door, Otunga, one foot out the
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: jailhouse door. Tonight, we remember an American hero, Trooper Christopher Gad,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Washington State Patrol, just 27, killed in the line of
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: duty and leaving behind a wife, now widow, Cameron, and daughter, Kaylin.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: American hero, Trooper Christopher Gad. Thank you to all of
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: our guests, but especially to you for being with us.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight. But I'll see you
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: tomorrow night, and until then, good night, friends.
• 37:29
  Speaker 10: Thank you.