Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / IDAHO STUDENT MURDERS: SUSPECT ARRESTED, CLUES LEFT BEHIND?

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IDAHO STUDENT MURDERS: SUSPECT ARRESTED, CLUES LEFT BEHIND? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace breaking news now an arrest
0:19
Speaker 1: has been made in the case of four beautiful Idaho
0:23
Speaker 1: University students massacred. We believe in their own beds asleep,
0:29
Speaker 1: I mean, see Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you
0:32
Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation and series
0:34
Speaker 1: XM one eleven. First of all, take a listen to
0:37
Speaker 1: Chief James Fry. Last night, in conjunction with the Pennsylvania
0:42
Speaker 1: State Police, Federal Bureau of Investigation detectives arrected twenty eight
0:47
Speaker 1: year old Brian Christopher Colberger in all Brightsville, Pennsylvania, on
0:54
Speaker 1: a warrant for murder of Ethan Zena Madison and Kaylee.
1:03
Speaker 1: I want to personally thank these agencies for their assistance
1:06
Speaker 1: in this case. Coburger resides in Pullman, Washington and as
1:11
Speaker 1: a graduate student at Washington State University. Since that incredible
1:17
Speaker 1: three a ish arrest, we've learned a lot about Brian
1:23
Speaker 1: Christopher Coburger with me and All Star panel to make
1:26
Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now. But first straight
1:28
Speaker 1: out to Laura Ingle, Senior correspondent Fox News. Laura, thank
1:33
Speaker 1: you for being with us. What can you tell us
1:36
Speaker 1: about how the arrest went down? Who what wife? When
1:39
Speaker 1: we're hi, Nancy, Well, we are actually currently positioned outside
1:43
Speaker 1: the Monroe County Correctional Facility. This is a jail here
1:47
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania where the suspect is being held until he
1:50
Speaker 1: makes his extradition court appearance on Tuesday. You know he
1:54
Speaker 1: was here. There are reports that he drove from Washington
1:59
Speaker 1: State to Pennsylvania sometime within the Christmas holiday. We don't
2:03
Speaker 1: know that for sure, but that are some of the
2:06
Speaker 1: reports that we're starting to hear today. But early Friday morning,
2:10
Speaker 1: like you said, around three am, Pennsylvania State Police arrived
2:14
Speaker 1: at a home here in Monroe County serving a search warrant,
2:18
Speaker 1: and we believe it was the home of his parents.
2:21
Speaker 1: And you've seen the photos by now the aerials. It's
2:24
Speaker 1: a very large home and sprawling area, rural mountainous roads
2:28
Speaker 1: and the Pocono Mountains. They showed up three am, took
2:32
Speaker 1: them into custody. There's word that they well, they did
2:35
Speaker 1: say that they got a white Alantra. We're not clear
2:39
Speaker 1: if it was in the driveway, but it was somewhere
2:42
Speaker 1: in Monroe County and it is now in police custody.
2:45
Speaker 1: And of course we talked about how you know, that's
2:48
Speaker 1: going to be a treasure trove of information within that car.
2:51
Speaker 1: One thing that we are just learning today, one of
2:55
Speaker 1: you know, people are now starting to kind of come
2:57
Speaker 1: out of the woodwork, people that knew him, people that
2:59
Speaker 1: took classes with him. He went to school in Washington State,
3:04
Speaker 1: just about nine miles away from the murder scene. And
3:08
Speaker 1: The New York Post is now reporting that he attended
3:11
Speaker 1: a criminal justice class after the November thirteenth pomicides and
3:18
Speaker 1: they talked about this case. This is what B. K.
3:21
Speaker 1: Norton told the New York Post, that he went to
3:24
Speaker 1: class and they all sat around talking about it. They
3:27
Speaker 1: say that he was quiet and deadpan, and that they
3:31
Speaker 1: were discussing just how the murders had taken place, how
3:34
Speaker 1: crazy it was, they had no information, and that they
3:36
Speaker 1: were all hoping they were safe. He's telling the New
3:39
Speaker 1: York Post today, little did we know the murderer was
3:42
Speaker 1: among us. That's a quote from the Post there. So
3:46
Speaker 1: right now he is in this jail. It holds about
3:48
Speaker 1: four hundred inmates, maximum and minimum security. We reach out
3:52
Speaker 1: to the parents who do live here for comment. We
3:56
Speaker 1: have not been able to get through to them. While
3:59
Speaker 1: he did have that apart in Washington State, he is
4:01
Speaker 1: registered to vote here. This is technically the address that
4:04
Speaker 1: he has is here in Pennsylvania. So we're digging around
4:08
Speaker 1: more to find out to talk to people who knew
4:10
Speaker 1: him and went to school with him. And police said
4:13
Speaker 1: in that press conference Friday night that they want to
4:16
Speaker 1: know if you know this guy, if you know Brian,
4:19
Speaker 1: please come forward. We want to talk to you about
4:22
Speaker 1: what he was talking about around the times of the murder,
4:24
Speaker 1: how he was acting, where he was going. They say,
4:27
Speaker 1: this is a whole new chapter. They still have a
4:29
Speaker 1: lot of information they're trying to get. Now we've got
4:31
Speaker 1: that name in the face, they hope more people will
4:33
Speaker 1: come forward. Laura Angle, I saw that quote by a
4:37
Speaker 1: co fellow student B. K. Norton, and I noticed Laura
4:42
Speaker 1: Ingle that the student also said this guy had always
4:46
Speaker 1: been pretty taciturn, pretty quiet, but that he was he
4:52
Speaker 1: the defendant, was more animated following the murders, and that
4:58
Speaker 1: whenever they would have a classics gush and remember this is,
5:01
Speaker 1: you know, less than twelve miles away from the murders.
5:03
Speaker 1: He's at Washington State University getting his PhD in criminology,
5:07
Speaker 1: that whenever that would be brought up, the murders would
5:10
Speaker 1: be brought up, he would go completely quiet and quote deadpan,
5:14
Speaker 1: would never interject anything he thought about the murders at all,
5:21
Speaker 1: complete radio silence whenever that was brought up. Did you
5:26
Speaker 1: say that, Laura Angele I did see that, and I
5:28
Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting and the idea of him
5:30
Speaker 1: being animated after the murders, you know, being the main
5:34
Speaker 1: suspect in this case, thinking about, you know, did he
5:37
Speaker 1: think he got away with something? Did he think that
5:39
Speaker 1: he was going to get away with it? And then
5:41
Speaker 1: possibly sitting back in that criminal justice class and just
5:44
Speaker 1: kind of you know, everybody that has talked about knowing
5:47
Speaker 1: him say that he always felt like he wanted to
5:50
Speaker 1: be kind of the smartest guy in the room. He
5:51
Speaker 1: always wanted to over explain things that he knew about,
5:55
Speaker 1: wanting to make sure that everybody knew what his level
5:58
Speaker 1: of intelligence was. So I can you can only imagine
6:01
Speaker 1: that he's sitting back in that class, maybe arms crossed,
6:04
Speaker 1: maybe just like well taking it all in, seeing what
6:06
Speaker 1: people are saying about the murders, as he's kind of
6:08
Speaker 1: digesting what the perception was. Yeah, he is, by no
6:12
Speaker 1: means an idiot, because you know, I was looking online
6:18
Speaker 1: to Cheryl McCollum, founder director of the Cold Case Research
6:22
Speaker 1: Institute at Coalcase Crimes dot org. We know that he
6:27
Speaker 1: got an associate's degree, a two year degree, at a
6:30
Speaker 1: local community college in Pennsylvania. Then he goes on to
6:34
Speaker 1: DeSales University, also in Pennsylvania, and he gets his BA
6:40
Speaker 1: or was it a BS in criminology. He was on
6:43
Speaker 1: the dean's list. Then he gets his master's degree in
6:47
Speaker 1: criminal justice, also at de Sales. Then he let's see, no,
6:53
Speaker 1: he gets his master's degree at WSU Washington State University,
6:57
Speaker 1: nine miles from the murder scene, and starts his doctorate.
7:01
Speaker 1: And he actually was a teaching assistant, and which is
7:06
Speaker 1: very common when you're getting your PhD. They'll throw a
7:08
Speaker 1: little money the school throw a little money at you,
7:11
Speaker 1: or you might get a scholarship or a scholarship or
7:13
Speaker 1: a stipend if you're a teaching assistant. You know, teach classes,
7:17
Speaker 1: help other students. I can't wait to hear what the
7:22
Speaker 1: students have to say that studied under him, Cheryl McCollums.
7:26
Speaker 1: So this guy is no idiot at all, and he's
7:30
Speaker 1: not an idiot, Nancy but again he's not experienced in
7:35
Speaker 1: the ways that matter as far as burnsing and leave
7:38
Speaker 1: them things that a crime thing goes. The students are
7:41
Speaker 1: going to have unbelievable testimony about things that he said,
7:46
Speaker 1: things that he was interested in. And I am telling
7:48
Speaker 1: you there will be a plethora of information in that house.
7:53
Speaker 1: Can you imagine from getting his you know, associates degree
7:59
Speaker 1: to working on a MV how much writing he did. Gosh, Yes,
8:18
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace. I gotta show this to
8:24
Speaker 1: Karen Stark. Oh with me is high high profile psychologists
8:28
Speaker 1: joining us out of Manhattan. Karen Stark at Karen Stark
8:31
Speaker 1: dot com. That's Karen with a C. Karen, listen to this. Uh.
8:36
Speaker 1: I don't know if you were with us watching last night.
8:38
Speaker 1: We did a full hour at ten pm last night
8:41
Speaker 1: on Fox about this about this case, and U, Karen,
8:47
Speaker 1: I know you heard us talking about this as part
8:51
Speaker 1: of his criminology degree, Karen Stark, he actually sent out reportedly,
8:56
Speaker 1: you know it is attributed to him on Reddit and
8:59
Speaker 1: other places, a questionnaire to violent offenders think murderers, rapists,
9:07
Speaker 1: child molesters, asking questions like oh, gosh, I made a
9:11
Speaker 1: huge long listen I was like, what was your first
9:15
Speaker 1: move in achieving your goal? What was your thought process
9:21
Speaker 1: when you left the scene? How did you leave the scene?
9:26
Speaker 1: Did you know the victim? How did you approach the victim?
9:30
Speaker 1: It's like how to He was asking other criminals, violent offenders, basically, Hey,
9:37
Speaker 1: what were you thinking when you murder that little old
9:41
Speaker 1: lady or when you raped that little kid and feeding
9:45
Speaker 1: off of it and learning from their answers. Karen Stark,
9:49
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy. I think like, what did you do with
9:52
Speaker 1: the murder weapon? If you use something, what did you use? Well?
9:57
Speaker 1: I read the whole entire thing, and oh, Karen Starr,
10:02
Speaker 1: you're so right about the murder weapon. Note to self.
10:07
Speaker 1: Read all the answers from criminals that responded about what
10:11
Speaker 1: they did with the murder weapon, and then use those
10:14
Speaker 1: answers to try to find the murder weapon. Okay, go ahead.
10:17
Speaker 1: But what he was doing, and I don't think i'd
10:20
Speaker 1: ever heard anything like this before, Nancy, I'd really talk
10:25
Speaker 1: about brilliant. Even though Cheryl's right, he made mistake at
10:29
Speaker 1: the crime scene, but this guy was actually teaching himself
10:34
Speaker 1: how he would be able to commit a crime. Okay,
10:37
Speaker 1: asking people who had done it. How did you feel?
10:41
Speaker 1: What did you do so that he could learn? And
10:44
Speaker 1: believe me, the whole time he would read those answers,
10:48
Speaker 1: he was platting in his head what he was and
10:51
Speaker 1: getting really excited about the prospect of trying all this house.
10:56
Speaker 1: He just poured gas on the fire. That is Joseph
11:00
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author. I mean
11:04
Speaker 1: it's so long. I can't even get through his credentials.
11:07
Speaker 1: I mean, really, you know what, shorten your resume? Please?
11:12
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
11:17
Speaker 1: Great by the way, host of a brand new hit
11:19
Speaker 1: series Body Backs of Joseph Scott Morgan on iHeart and
11:22
Speaker 1: so forth and so on. Okay, you're brilliant, all right,
11:25
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, Now that I fed your ego for
11:28
Speaker 1: this morning, did you hear what Karen Start and Cheryl
11:31
Speaker 1: mccullumbo said, yes, he may be smart, but no, this
11:36
Speaker 1: is one of your quotes you quote somebody else that
11:39
Speaker 1: every action, every action leaves behind a trace. What's your
11:45
Speaker 1: quote that you was throw at me? Yeah, Edmond Lecard,
11:50
Speaker 1: the godfather of forensic science, Every contact leaves a trace.
11:56
Speaker 1: He said that over a hundred years ago, Nancy, And
11:58
Speaker 1: here we are one of these days, Goot Morgan, when
12:01
Speaker 1: we're on together, I'm gonna I'm gonna give that quote
12:04
Speaker 1: and the and the origination and act like it saw
12:08
Speaker 1: mine and just see how you responds the community. But yeah,
12:14
Speaker 1: absolutely correct, Explain, Yeah, here we are on the brink
12:18
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three, and that still applies everywhere he went,
12:22
Speaker 1: every contact that he made in that scene, and of
12:26
Speaker 1: course in that car. The car is a big piece
12:29
Speaker 1: of this. He's leaving something behind, not just of himself,
12:32
Speaker 1: but everything that he brought out of that house, any
12:35
Speaker 1: kind of biological sample, blood, hair, any kind of trace
12:40
Speaker 1: elements would have been transferred over to that vehicle. And Nancy,
12:43
Speaker 1: trust me on this, please, I beg you. In a
12:46
Speaker 1: case like this, where you have sharp force injuries and
12:51
Speaker 1: you multiply that by factor four people and multiple stab wounds,
12:56
Speaker 1: he will be just absolutely super saturated in blood that
13:01
Speaker 1: would have been transferred somewhere into that vehicle, in any
13:05
Speaker 1: other environment that he may have entered into. And so
13:09
Speaker 1: that is going to be a tie back. And I
13:12
Speaker 1: was amazed, absolutely amazed yesterday when they said, hey, we've
13:16
Speaker 1: got a DNA profile on this guy. Amazing. It was,
13:20
Speaker 1: It was absolutely amazing. That's my biggest tape, Winds Guys.
13:23
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to an incredible guest Chris McDonough and
13:26
Speaker 1: a high profile lawyer out of Jackson, former FBI Del Carson.
13:29
Speaker 1: But I got a circle back right here to Cheryl McCollum.
13:32
Speaker 1: Not only is she found her director of the Coal
13:34
Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, she's a forensic expert, and she is
13:38
Speaker 1: now the host and star of a new hit series.
13:42
Speaker 1: It's podcast called Zone Seven. Cheryl McCollum, I got a
13:48
Speaker 1: ton of questions, but I couldn't look at them while
13:52
Speaker 1: you and I were on air together last night. I
13:54
Speaker 1: saw them all after. I wish I could have looked
13:56
Speaker 1: at them, because one of them is really good. I
14:00
Speaker 1: think I touched on this but then dropped it to
14:02
Speaker 1: go on to something else last night. There's a very
14:06
Speaker 1: strong likelihood that at least one, if not more, of
14:10
Speaker 1: the victims these beautiful Oh gosh, they're not that older
14:14
Speaker 1: than my twins, Cheryl. They're the age of your children, Cheryl,
14:18
Speaker 1: did you think about that the victims are the age
14:20
Speaker 1: of your children? Anyway? I was wondering if any of
14:23
Speaker 1: them fought back, would his body still the defensive bodies
14:27
Speaker 1: still have scratches bruises on the body forty seven days later,
14:34
Speaker 1: and I came to the conclusion very quickly that they
14:36
Speaker 1: would be gone. Then somebody wrote in unless he cut
14:40
Speaker 1: himself with the knife. So what about that, Cheryl McCollum. Well,
14:48
Speaker 1: nives get very slippery when they get blood all over them,
14:52
Speaker 1: and a lot of times the perpetrators will injure themselves,
14:55
Speaker 1: either because their hands slipped on the knife or when
14:59
Speaker 1: they're glad being the victim with their non dominant hand
15:02
Speaker 1: and then stabbing. They will stab their non dominant hands.
15:06
Speaker 1: So that's one thing that investigators are going to be
15:09
Speaker 1: looking for. The second thing is these students, these other classmates.
15:14
Speaker 1: They may have noticed the black eye, or a scratch
15:17
Speaker 1: on his face, or scratch on his neck, or scratches
15:19
Speaker 1: on his hands and arms. So there may be other
15:23
Speaker 1: witnesses out there. And then I'll tell you what. He
15:25
Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of Israel keys in hell for
15:32
Speaker 1: all eternity. May he asolutely rotten hell for all eternity.
15:36
Speaker 1: But he studied Ted Bundy, as you know, and he
15:40
Speaker 1: kind of upped his game a little bit by having
15:42
Speaker 1: those caches of stuff. And let me tell you, he
15:45
Speaker 1: may this freak serial killer Israel Keys, last Nun victims,
15:51
Speaker 1: Samantha kneg Barista out of Alaska, actually had kill kits
15:58
Speaker 1: all across the country that would have what he thought
16:01
Speaker 1: he needed to commit and cover up murders. Freak. Okay,
16:05
Speaker 1: go ahead, But when it came down to it, as
16:09
Speaker 1: much planning and studying as he did, he made a
16:12
Speaker 1: mistake at an ATM with the victim's card. Yeah, that's
16:17
Speaker 1: telling that idiot study. But when they're not a you know,
16:22
Speaker 1: real criminal, they don't have that type of mind to
16:25
Speaker 1: get away with things. They make these mistakes. And this
16:28
Speaker 1: is what I see in moscout Hey. You know, Jackie
16:32
Speaker 1: here in the studio with me, you're making a very
16:35
Speaker 1: very sour kind of a bitter face right now. I
16:38
Speaker 1: hope it's not at me. I hope it's at the defendant.
16:43
Speaker 1: At the defendant. Okay, good to know, of course you
16:46
Speaker 1: and I intimately know the case of Israel Keys and
16:49
Speaker 1: Samantha Koenig. Okay, guys, to hold on, del Carson. I
16:53
Speaker 1: cannot believe you have not injected yourself yet. You must
16:56
Speaker 1: be well. I wanted to say something about Geryl just
16:59
Speaker 1: as I was about to go to Chris mcdonnaugh. See
17:01
Speaker 1: how polite he's being, justin, you know, go to Okay,
17:05
Speaker 1: go ahead, del Carson, high profile lawyers join him out
17:08
Speaker 1: of Jacksonville. But this is the reason I really love Carson,
17:11
Speaker 1: because he's a former FBI agent and cop in Miami
17:15
Speaker 1: day where there's never a lack of business. Author of
17:18
Speaker 1: a reciproof for yourself at Deale carson Law dot com. Okay,
17:21
Speaker 1: hit me all right, So Cheryl is a most remarkable person.
17:28
Speaker 1: Cheryl is, and I'll tell you why. She pointed out
17:31
Speaker 1: early on that that white car nobody had called police
17:35
Speaker 1: to say it was theirs. And then yesterday, most elegantly,
17:39
Speaker 1: she said this. She said, just because you can read
17:43
Speaker 1: the recipe for a cake doesn't mean you can bake one.
17:47
Speaker 1: And that's certainly true with this guy. He may have
17:50
Speaker 1: had all that information from all these sources, but he'd
17:54
Speaker 1: never made a cake. And that's what allowed him, as
17:58
Speaker 1: Cheryl pointed out, to get caught ultimately, because just because
18:02
Speaker 1: you can make the cake, read the directions doesn't mean
18:06
Speaker 1: that you can kill the people and get away with it.
18:09
Speaker 1: You know that brings me to a point, and you're
18:11
Speaker 1: absolutely correct. Chris mcdonnaugh is with me, director at the
18:15
Speaker 1: Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective. I found him as
18:19
Speaker 1: I was going deep, deep, deep deep on the internet
18:22
Speaker 1: looking at anything about Idaho murders, and I found him
18:27
Speaker 1: on his YouTube channel, the Interview Room, and I was complete.
18:31
Speaker 1: I think I watched his drive through of Moscow. Guys,
18:34
Speaker 1: correct me, is it Moscow or Moscow? Moscow? Moscow? Okay?
18:41
Speaker 1: What ye okay. I'm glad you told me that because
18:45
Speaker 1: I must have said Moscow one time. Last night I
18:47
Speaker 1: had about fifty responses on Twitter alone about what an
18:50
Speaker 1: idiot I was for saying Moscow. Okay, Moscow? Thank you.
18:55
Speaker 1: They were right. Everybody was right, and I was wrong.
18:58
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnaugh with me, host of the Interview Room. You're
19:03
Speaker 1: drive through Moscow. I watched that, I don't know how
19:08
Speaker 1: many times over and over and it's like, what is
19:11
Speaker 1: it an hour and forty five minutes long? You're not
19:14
Speaker 1: one for brevity. Thank God in Heaven, because I want
19:17
Speaker 1: to so Ki in every single detail. He's going about
19:21
Speaker 1: two miles an hour down Main Street and Moscow and
19:26
Speaker 1: then he turns left at a gas station. You can
19:29
Speaker 1: you see everything in such incredible detail, and he's got
19:32
Speaker 1: I think your wife, the lady you keep calling honey.
19:35
Speaker 1: Both of you were chiming in like look at that,
19:37
Speaker 1: look at this, look at that, look at this. It
19:40
Speaker 1: was incredibly helpful that aside, Chris, what do you make
19:45
Speaker 1: of the fact that now we know for sure that
19:50
Speaker 1: this guy, Okay Coburger went back to class. Think about it, Jackie.
19:57
Speaker 1: He goes back to class after a quadruple homicide and
20:02
Speaker 1: sits in class like do do do nothing's wrong, continues
20:06
Speaker 1: as normal sop and they're talking about the case the
20:11
Speaker 1: murders in class, they're talking about the white Elantra and
20:15
Speaker 1: there he is with a white Elantra and it never
20:18
Speaker 1: occurred to him at wow, I should go tell them
20:20
Speaker 1: I have a white Elantra so they can rule me out. Right.
20:24
Speaker 1: He never said a word Chris, Yeah, Nancy, I mean
20:30
Speaker 1: pretty interesting, right, And I think we get a clue
20:34
Speaker 1: of that early on in some of the press conferences.
20:38
Speaker 1: A comment that the chief made. Remember early on, he
20:42
Speaker 1: came out instead of the public if you see any
20:45
Speaker 1: shifts in behavior of people around you, and that would
20:52
Speaker 1: be a red flag for them right to call the
20:55
Speaker 1: authorities at that point. And so I think, you know,
21:00
Speaker 1: we've been right on target with this guy, you know,
21:03
Speaker 1: in this panel discussion here for the weeks now that
21:08
Speaker 1: this guy has been sitting back watching all of this
21:11
Speaker 1: and quite frankly, you know, perhaps you know, getting a
21:15
Speaker 1: great deal of satisfaction out of you know, just the
21:20
Speaker 1: ability to sit there like a chameleon in plain sight,
21:25
Speaker 1: and you know the DOCTN measure that in relationship to
21:29
Speaker 1: his ego. But I think it's fascinating that the guy
21:33
Speaker 1: did not step forward. Absolutely, I wish I could focus
21:36
Speaker 1: more on what you're saying, Chris mcdunna. But Jackie and
21:38
Speaker 1: the studio, it's hard to focus when you see a
21:40
Speaker 1: piece of paper going back and forth like that over
21:43
Speaker 1: in the corner. So I finally have to look at her,
21:46
Speaker 1: and she actually has a point. What about the fact
21:49
Speaker 1: Dave mc joining me from crime online dot Com isn't true,
21:53
Speaker 1: Dave mac. There are reports upon his arrest around three
21:56
Speaker 1: am in the morning, which is quite a coincidence, said
21:58
Speaker 1: the murders the card around three am. Jackie, you get
22:01
Speaker 1: credit for that three am in the morning, he said,
22:04
Speaker 1: has anybody else been arrested. Did he say that? Do?
22:08
Speaker 1: Is that a correct reporting yet? That has not been
22:13
Speaker 1: confirmed from anything I've seen yet, and reported Dave mac
22:19
Speaker 1: it was reported that he said it not confirmed. Okay, gotcha, Okay,
22:23
Speaker 1: that is very unusual why he would say that. But
22:30
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen our cut one
22:31
Speaker 1: ninety nine. This is Chief James Fry on the Moscow,
22:35
Speaker 1: Idaho Police Listen. This was a very complex and extensive case.
22:39
Speaker 1: We developed a clear picture over time, and we stand
22:42
Speaker 1: assured that the work is not done. But be assured
22:46
Speaker 1: the work is not done. This has just started. Since November,
22:50
Speaker 1: we have remained laser focused on pursuing every lead in
22:54
Speaker 1: our pursuit of justice for the victims and their families.
22:57
Speaker 1: I recognize the frustration with the lack of information that's
23:00
Speaker 1: been released. However, providing any details in this criminal investigation
23:04
Speaker 1: might have taint it the upcoming criminal prosecution or alerted
23:09
Speaker 1: the suspect of our progress. We will continue to provide
23:12
Speaker 1: as much information as we can as a process moves forward.
23:30
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace, this was a very complex
23:39
Speaker 1: and extensive case. We evolved a clear picture over time,
23:43
Speaker 1: and we stand assured that the work is not done.
23:46
Speaker 1: But be assured the work is not done. This has
23:49
Speaker 1: just started. Since November, we have remained laser focused on
23:53
Speaker 1: pursuing every lead in our pursuit of justice for the
23:56
Speaker 1: victims and their families. I recognize the frustration with the
24:00
Speaker 1: lack of information that's been released. However, providing any details
24:03
Speaker 1: in this criminal investigation might have tained it the upcoming
24:07
Speaker 1: criminal prosecution or alerted the suspect of our progress. We
24:11
Speaker 1: will continue to provide as much information as we can
24:15
Speaker 1: as a process moves forward. And I understand to Dale Carson,
24:19
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, former FBI, that we
24:24
Speaker 1: may see the probable cause, in other words, the ingredients
24:29
Speaker 1: that went into the arrest why police thought that this
24:34
Speaker 1: is the guy that committed the quadruple killing at the
24:37
Speaker 1: time he arrives back in Idaho. What do you think
24:42
Speaker 1: about that? Well, that makes perfect sense. And of course
24:45
Speaker 1: there's a supporting document, as you well know, called an
24:48
Speaker 1: affidavit or probable cause that a judge has to look
24:51
Speaker 1: at and agree that they're sufficient probable cause to issue
24:54
Speaker 1: a warrant or make an arrest. Now, in this particular case,
24:57
Speaker 1: we know that there's a state warrant and there was
25:00
Speaker 1: a federal warrant as well, So both of those warrant
25:03
Speaker 1: systems allow access to electronic monitors and other things through
25:07
Speaker 1: the court system. So there's going to be a put
25:10
Speaker 1: through of information that develops once he's back in Moscow.
25:15
Speaker 1: Another thing, in addition to correcting me when I said Moscow,
25:20
Speaker 1: the social media let me just say viewers also pointed
25:26
Speaker 1: out that I was trying and convicting Kyburger before we've
25:30
Speaker 1: even struck a jury. That's not true. I was accused
25:36
Speaker 1: of convicting the Deep lacrosse players, but I would like
25:41
Speaker 1: to point out that my opinions were based on what
25:44
Speaker 1: the district attorney, the rape kit nurse, and the victim,
25:48
Speaker 1: the alleged rate victim. It turns out she was lying,
25:51
Speaker 1: we're saying. And the day I don't know if you
25:55
Speaker 1: remember the Cheryl you may have been on with me.
25:57
Speaker 1: The afternoon, one of the lacrosse players gave a statement,
26:02
Speaker 1: actually spoke in front of reporters. I immediately said, that
26:07
Speaker 1: is the state's worst nightmare, because I believe that the
26:10
Speaker 1: lacrosse player he was I think he was even taking questions,
26:15
Speaker 1: he was truthful, he was forthcoming. And also I remember
26:20
Speaker 1: in the Elizabeth Smart case, I was accused of convicting Ricchie,
26:26
Speaker 1: and what I had always said is he makes the
26:28
Speaker 1: perfect suspect. Not that I thought he was guilty, but
26:33
Speaker 1: when I actually met and spoke to his wife one
26:36
Speaker 1: night on Larry King, I'm like, I believe her. I
26:39
Speaker 1: think she's telling the truth about his alibi. That's just
26:44
Speaker 1: you know, the state needs to rethink the case. In
26:48
Speaker 1: this case, we are going forward. We are proceeding with
26:53
Speaker 1: what we know right now. I think it goes without
26:56
Speaker 1: saying that everyone has presumed innocent and that we have
27:00
Speaker 1: to have a jury trial before there's a conviction. So
27:03
Speaker 1: I thought that that was just a given, but apparently not.
27:08
Speaker 1: In the meantime, take a listen to our cut two three,
27:13
Speaker 1: Bill Taughts and the local prosecutor. As far as mister Kolberger,
27:17
Speaker 1: I can share with you that he is a graduate
27:19
Speaker 1: student Washington State University and has an apartment residence over
27:23
Speaker 1: a Pullman. He has had an initial appearance in front
27:26
Speaker 1: of a judge in Pennsylvania, that he is being held
27:29
Speaker 1: without bond, and the warrant from our magistrate judge here
27:33
Speaker 1: also provides for no bond. We understand that he's scheduled
27:36
Speaker 1: to be back in court in Pennsylvania next Tuesday afternoon,
27:39
Speaker 1: and that a public defender has been appointed for him there.
27:42
Speaker 1: The process at this point is, since he was arrested
27:45
Speaker 1: in another state, he has the opportunity to either wave
27:48
Speaker 1: extradition and return voluntarily to the state of Idaho, or
27:51
Speaker 1: if he prefers not to wave extradition, then we will
27:54
Speaker 1: initigate extradition proceedings through our governor's office. If we do that,
27:58
Speaker 1: it can take a while for him to get here.
28:00
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, we all know Chris mcdonnah from
28:03
Speaker 1: the Cold Case Foundation. Extradition is a very short proceeding.
28:08
Speaker 1: It's not are you guilty or innocence? It's nothing even
28:12
Speaker 1: touching on guilt or innocence. It's very simply, Hey, are
28:15
Speaker 1: you Chris mcdonnah. That's all I need to know, because
28:18
Speaker 1: we've got a warrant for you. If you're Chris mcdonah
28:21
Speaker 1: out of Idaho for a quadruple sling. All I need
28:25
Speaker 1: to know right here in pennsylvania's are you Chris mcdonnah.
28:29
Speaker 1: That's it? Are you? And if you are wise you'll
28:33
Speaker 1: go Yes, I am because if you won't answer or
28:38
Speaker 1: say no or don't waive extradition, all they do is
28:42
Speaker 1: they get your five fingers and they do a print
28:46
Speaker 1: right there in court and compare it to a fingerprint
28:49
Speaker 1: sent over from elsewhere. And if you match, you match,
28:53
Speaker 1: and you're sent whether you like it or not. It's
28:55
Speaker 1: just very simply a transmiddle type of here. Usually last
29:01
Speaker 1: I've done a million. I'm about fifteen minutes. Would you
29:03
Speaker 1: agree with that, Chris mcdonnough, Absolutely, Nancy, And I think
29:07
Speaker 1: what's going to be interesting is to see how he
29:11
Speaker 1: does answer that question right. And I read an interesting
29:15
Speaker 1: article last night. It was a letter to the editor
29:18
Speaker 1: from one of his family members, actually his mother, where
29:21
Speaker 1: she complained about the death penalty. And this was previous
29:26
Speaker 1: to obviously his arrest. So I wonder if that's going
29:30
Speaker 1: to play into any of this to your point in
29:34
Speaker 1: the courtroom. So that's something to you know, just kind
29:38
Speaker 1: of look out for. Speaking of the mom and what
29:41
Speaker 1: we know about the family. I gotta tell you something,
29:46
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, did you see where they lived? I understand.
29:51
Speaker 1: I think Laura Ingle told me last night it was
29:53
Speaker 1: in a gated community. Those are huge homes, huge lots
29:59
Speaker 1: at least an acre to two acres, maybe one point
30:02
Speaker 1: eight acres judging on the aerial, with wooded lawn grass lawns,
30:08
Speaker 1: with wooded acreage between the homes. That is some set up,
30:14
Speaker 1: kind of a silver spoon ish situation. It's a great setup,
30:19
Speaker 1: but it's also a great set up for somebody that's
30:21
Speaker 1: got things to hide. So I would begin interested if
30:24
Speaker 1: there's any sheds on the property, if there's a place
30:27
Speaker 1: that he used to go and hang out alone. People
30:31
Speaker 1: gravitate after they commit crimes to places that are comfortable
30:35
Speaker 1: for them, where they have the home field advantage, So
30:39
Speaker 1: there are things on that property that would be I
30:42
Speaker 1: think interesting the law enforcement. And I want to say
30:44
Speaker 1: one more thing. If he in fact did say has
30:47
Speaker 1: anybody else been arrested? He would be worried about his mom.
30:52
Speaker 1: There's no way that she wasn't completely focused on what
30:57
Speaker 1: was happening near his college and what happened to those kids.
31:01
Speaker 1: And then she knew the car too, and she knew
31:04
Speaker 1: that call was out in her driveway, So if she
31:06
Speaker 1: helped him as an accessory after the fact, he knows that.
31:10
Speaker 1: So he may have been worried about her there's not
31:13
Speaker 1: a second killer here. I found it very difficult to believe.
31:16
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. I agree with you. Let me throw this
31:18
Speaker 1: to Joe Scott Morgan from Jacksonville State University and body
31:22
Speaker 1: bags Joe Scott, given that we thought were told at
31:28
Speaker 1: the beginning the same type of knife wounds were on
31:32
Speaker 1: all four victims that indicated one murder weapon, hence one murderer.
31:40
Speaker 1: I agree with Cheryl McCollum. I don't think that the
31:43
Speaker 1: question has anybody else been arrested necessarily means there was
31:46
Speaker 1: another person at the killing or taking part in the killing.
31:50
Speaker 1: I agree with Cheryl. You know the parents had to
31:52
Speaker 1: say he's got a white and launchra right out of
31:54
Speaker 1: the park, right out of the driveway for Pete's sake. Yeah,
31:58
Speaker 1: and there would have been an observable behavior upon his
32:01
Speaker 1: arrival back home. Was the acting, you know, more oddly
32:04
Speaker 1: than normal, you know, within that family. And this unless
32:10
Speaker 1: you're living under a rock, you're aware of this case.
32:13
Speaker 1: And to Cheryl's point, the fact that he was in
32:16
Speaker 1: such close proximity, I don't. I don't know if people
32:18
Speaker 1: appreciate the geography here from WSU to you of I
32:23
Speaker 1: you can walk that distance. I mean you literally can.
32:27
Speaker 1: I mean it's that close. So you're telling me that
32:31
Speaker 1: she had no awareness here, and that's going to be key.
32:34
Speaker 1: I want to know. But one from a forensic standpoint.
32:37
Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm very interested in regarding
32:40
Speaker 1: this car. He had this car for days and days
32:46
Speaker 1: post post homicide. I want to know what's been done
32:50
Speaker 1: with the car in that period of time. Is there
32:53
Speaker 1: a record that he had to clean? Is there CCTV
32:56
Speaker 1: imagery of him going to a car wash, vacuum and
32:59
Speaker 1: the thing out, purchasing supplies to clean this thing with,
33:02
Speaker 1: because it's been in his control all of this period
33:05
Speaker 1: of time. But I can tell you this, he didn't
33:07
Speaker 1: get everything out of there. I promised you that, Oh, no,
33:10
Speaker 1: no way can he get everything out? Jump in Oh,
33:12
Speaker 1: Karen Stark, I was just about to go to you
33:14
Speaker 1: about these are their words, not mine. His fastidious and
33:20
Speaker 1: obsessive compulsive issues regarding his eating. He was a devout
33:27
Speaker 1: vegan and hey, don't knock, and I went vegetarian for
33:31
Speaker 1: two years when I was at court TV. Believe it
33:33
Speaker 1: or not, but he insisted their words were forced his
33:39
Speaker 1: parents to throw out their old pots and pants because
33:42
Speaker 1: they had come in contact with meat. Now, of course
33:44
Speaker 1: that's not new that vegans don't want to use pots
33:47
Speaker 1: and pants that have been in touch with meat. But
33:52
Speaker 1: you don't have to have your parents throw them out
33:54
Speaker 1: like you can't stand them to even be in the
33:56
Speaker 1: same kitchen. Well, well that just makes me. I'm not surprised.
34:03
Speaker 1: I mean, you have to have a little bit of
34:05
Speaker 1: obsessive compulsive davor to be able to be in a
34:08
Speaker 1: graduate program. I mean, think about law school. I mean,
34:12
Speaker 1: you really have to be organized, and it tends to
34:16
Speaker 1: development students. But given that, I was also thinking about
34:21
Speaker 1: the fact that he said, was anyone else arrested? And
34:25
Speaker 1: I don't make Perhaps it was his stemon, but I
34:29
Speaker 1: really believe that's his arrogance, that it was much more
34:33
Speaker 1: about Kenny, did you make any mistakes or just just curiosity? Well,
34:40
Speaker 1: I want to chick up on what you're saying, Karen
34:42
Speaker 1: start here. Yeah, because let's follow that three to its
34:46
Speaker 1: log logical conclusion. If he is obsessive compulsive, as one
34:51
Speaker 1: aunt obvious who refused to be named, called him obsessive
34:55
Speaker 1: compulsive Chris McDonough, that can really help this case. What
35:01
Speaker 1: if he was obsessive compulsive about these murders, And can't
35:04
Speaker 1: you just see him studying on all those questionnaires that
35:07
Speaker 1: the criminals wrote back, studying their techniques and actually like
35:13
Speaker 1: working himself into a frenzy and then committing the crime.
35:18
Speaker 1: Obsessive compulsive could go two ways. He could have either
35:22
Speaker 1: obsessively and compulsively planned the murders. Do you remember the
35:28
Speaker 1: murder of money Lee Bakley, which, by the way, Robert
35:32
Speaker 1: Blake did it. I know he was acquitted, but he
35:34
Speaker 1: totally did it, and he had his henchmen and they
35:36
Speaker 1: actually wrote out a list. We need lie, we need tarps,
35:42
Speaker 1: we need shovels, the gun, blah blah blah. They wrote
35:48
Speaker 1: a list, hello, and it was found. Okay, that was
35:52
Speaker 1: a bad idea. It could go that way where there's
35:56
Speaker 1: so much evidence they find in his Pullman apartment or online.
36:02
Speaker 1: Or he could have been obsessive compulsive about cleaning it
36:06
Speaker 1: all away. So what about that, Chris, Yeah, Nancy, I
36:11
Speaker 1: think this guy lives. It appears that he lived such
36:16
Speaker 1: a mechanical existence right to your thought process there, and
36:21
Speaker 1: so that's why I feel that his research is going
36:26
Speaker 1: to be really interesting to discover. Uh, you know what
36:31
Speaker 1: type of individuals he was connecting with. And what I
36:35
Speaker 1: find and I'm just going to say this a loud here,
36:38
Speaker 1: but one of the things that I'm really curious about
36:42
Speaker 1: is this idea that you know, he's a masked murderer
36:47
Speaker 1: at this point, and is he morphing into a surreal
36:52
Speaker 1: I you know, he's gotten away with this in his mind.
36:55
Speaker 1: He gets there and he's sitting back, you know, taking
37:00
Speaker 1: us all in and to that methodical process. Was he
37:04
Speaker 1: studying individuals Let's use BTK for an example. Was he
37:10
Speaker 1: studying him as a you know, almost a mentor. And
37:16
Speaker 1: what I find interesting is his initials. His name is
37:20
Speaker 1: Brian Christopher, you know, covert, right, but you look at
37:25
Speaker 1: his initials b c K, b c K. So we
37:30
Speaker 1: take out the T and we have a BK And
37:34
Speaker 1: so there's I'm just curious and I'm just you know,
37:37
Speaker 1: thinking out loud here, is that somewhere in his research studies,
37:43
Speaker 1: somewhere that he's obsessed with this type of individuals, you know,
37:47
Speaker 1: following your trend of thought, it would be very interesting
37:50
Speaker 1: to find out if during the course of his studies
37:53
Speaker 1: he may contact with other killers and spoke to them
37:58
Speaker 1: through phone calls, email, so forth. We understand that he
38:02
Speaker 1: was relatively silent on social media. Also saw reports that
38:09
Speaker 1: he followed Maddie on Instagram, so that's not consistent. We'll
38:14
Speaker 1: know more and more and more, but we do know this.
38:17
Speaker 1: Take listen to our cut to fourteen our friends at
38:21
Speaker 1: wpv I Philly. The neighbor tells us she didn't know
38:24
Speaker 1: Brian Koburger, but had seen him in and out of
38:26
Speaker 1: the house in recent weeks. She says his parents were
38:29
Speaker 1: a very sweet couple, but kept to themselves. Authorities say
38:33
Speaker 1: Koburger is a PhD student at Washington State University in Pullman,
38:37
Speaker 1: not far from the University of Idaho. Campus. Authorities are
38:41
Speaker 1: searching his Washington State apartment. Police in Idaho believe they
38:45
Speaker 1: have their man, but did not release motive or details
38:48
Speaker 1: of the crime. They say this investigation is not over
38:52
Speaker 1: and want people to come forward and provide information about Koburger.
38:56
Speaker 1: Anyone who knows about this individual to come forward, call
39:00
Speaker 1: the tip line. They're still wanting information. If you've got
39:05
Speaker 1: a tip line. Two zero eight eight eight three seven
39:08
Speaker 1: one eight zero repeat two zero eight eight eight three
39:12
Speaker 1: seven one eight zero. They want to flesh out their case, guys,
39:18
Speaker 1: what did they have to make them arrest coburger? Okay,
39:25
Speaker 1: jump in, Joe Scott Morgan. What do you think they had? Well,
39:27
Speaker 1: obviously they've got the DNA that they've developed along the way.
39:31
Speaker 1: But I gotta make a statement. I'm gonna give it.
39:33
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give credit to mac on this stancy. She
39:36
Speaker 1: and I had a conversation about eleven o'clock last night.
39:40
Speaker 1: You know what we find it? Why the hey did
39:43
Speaker 1: you do it at eleven o'clock? You had ten to
39:45
Speaker 1: eleven with me on Fox for Pete's sake and to
39:48
Speaker 1: save it, and you have your discussion at eleven oh one. Okay,
39:52
Speaker 1: go ahead, you're working us hard. Hey, listen, MC and
39:56
Speaker 1: I have a conversation, and this is what we concluded.
40:00
Speaker 1: Who in the world starts killing when they're almost thirty
40:02
Speaker 1: years of age? Who does that? Like this? And you know,
40:08
Speaker 1: you begin to think about what what does he have
40:11
Speaker 1: in his history? You know, I know that you're referring
40:13
Speaker 1: to what do they have in order to affect and
40:16
Speaker 1: arrest on this guy? But what what does he have
40:19
Speaker 1: lurking in his past that suddenly he would kick off?
40:24
Speaker 1: Not with one, not worth two, not with three but
40:27
Speaker 1: four four. Yeah, they went from zero to one second.
40:32
Speaker 1: I hear you, hey, question, go ahead, whoever that is,
40:37
Speaker 1: it's either Carol or Karen or Sheryl jump in. Yeah,
40:43
Speaker 1: when you're talking about being a past even if he
40:46
Speaker 1: had no crimes, which would be hard to believe, and
40:50
Speaker 1: animals or something. And here's the guy's a began, but
40:54
Speaker 1: he was a beest Nancy and criminology, and to replace
41:01
Speaker 1: it was I have no doubt he just sat there
41:04
Speaker 1: and was planning something and he went back and he
41:08
Speaker 1: finished the semester. He didn't just go back to that class,
41:12
Speaker 1: but he finished the semester. He stat Bryant, he does
41:15
Speaker 1: n't look in his eyes, and he was enjoying every
41:20
Speaker 1: single moment of knowing that he was the one that
41:24
Speaker 1: was at I notice he is wearing a pickle suit,
41:29
Speaker 1: also known as a bam bam, a suicide smock. We've
41:32
Speaker 1: had no indication that he has suicidal idiation, but we
41:37
Speaker 1: do know that's sop in cases jumping quickly. You know, listen,
41:43
Speaker 1: we're forgetting one thing. He's gone through all this professional
41:46
Speaker 1: training in policing. What an excellent idea to run a test,
41:51
Speaker 1: an actual test, to see if he can do something
41:55
Speaker 1: and promote himself in this environment of police and PhD
42:02
Speaker 1: in a way that turns us into an experiment. Now,
42:07
Speaker 1: because that is a very scary proposition del Carson, and
42:13
Speaker 1: is entirely possible. Guys, we hope that all will be
42:18
Speaker 1: made a known. I believe the hearing is this Tuesday,
42:21
Speaker 1: correct Jackie, where we hope that the problem caused affidavits
42:27
Speaker 1: supporting his arrest warrant will be unseilled. But for right now,
42:32
Speaker 1: all we can do is continue to pray for justice
42:37
Speaker 1: and for the victims' families. People say they've got closure,
42:43
Speaker 1: now this is just the first step and a very
42:46
Speaker 1: very long and painful journey for them. Nancy Grace common
42:51
Speaker 1: Story signing off goodbye friend,