Latest / Repossible / re414: Mind? Heart? Gut? Who Can We Trust? Decision Making with Karina Klaassen

Transcript

re414: Mind? Heart? Gut? Who Can We Trust? Decision Making with Karina Klaassen · Repossible

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Okay. I had to hit record here because we are just saying too much. There's too much good stuff going on here. And I had to hit record. Finally. We've been talking for half an hour. I should have just recorded the entire thing. I am here with Karina Klassen and I'm thrilled to have you. And I really wish we had just recorded the last half an hour. Karina. It's too bad, but welcome.
• 0:20
  Speaker B: Thank you very much, Bradley. Yes.
• 0:21
  Speaker A: Yeah. So she just dropped a bombshell on me because she's. I'm telling her about my whole now what? And decision making and everything. And she said, well, decision making is the mind. And what if you just called it follow your heart and make it more about art? Because the past half an hour we've been talking about spirituality and business and the combination of it or the balance of it. And I think you have a very valid point because even I was saying, oh, yeah, decision making, it's sort of a boring topic. It's not very sexy. It's more analytical. Oh, I have to make a decision. I have to, you know, analyze the numbers and whereas, you know, you had asked me, oh, I did this thing. I made this. This, this thing happened. Oh, did you follow your heart or make a decision? And it was clear, I followed my heart. Anyway, that's my big long intro of Karina, so it's great to have you.
• 1:19
  Speaker B: Thank you. And one other thing that I'd like to point out. When you were talking about decision making, automatically your head, your hands went up. Oh, you were saying, yeah, it's not very sexy. And you went like this. Which is funny, you know, like, because, ah, so it's already clear that it's, you know, so much more there than it is here.
• 1:44
  Speaker A: You know, I, I learned recently because. So as we've been talking about, I've been having these discussions about I'm going to call it decision making for now, but my whole now what? Project. You're right. Now what leaves it open, it doesn't necessarily mean mind. And somebody told me, they said, well, actually what happens is like the heart or the intuition, the heart or the gut that actually makes the decision. And then the heart and the gut try to convince the mind that it's a good idea. Like with rational and objective and analytical statements. I don't know.
• 2:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's the other way around. I think the decision is already there. So you, you get something through the guts, you know, like if you think of the chakras, it comes from, you know, maybe from down under. And it goes up and it needs to go down. Go, get out. Like, yeah, you know, I want to do this.
• 2:43
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 2:44
  Speaker B: And then the mind starts to react on it and it starts to bring confusion. Like. But is that really a good idea?
• 2:54
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:55
  Speaker B: Did you really do that? And you know, when we start listening to all that the mind is saying, we go off track quite often because we go. Because then we decide with our mind that it wasn't such a good idea. But based on what? Based on the limited beliefs that we have, the limited knowledge that we have. Because we think we know it all, but we don't know it all.
• 3:24
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 3:25
  Speaker B: So we make that, then we let the mind make that decision from a contracted state of energy.
• 3:36
  Speaker A: You know, you're making me think of a story. So my son is currently planning on moving to the United States. And if you look at it from like an analytical, logical, rational perspective, it's Karina. And I live in the Netherlands.
• 3:53
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 3:53
  Speaker A: And I was born in the States and so is my son. But he wants to move back. And from political, you know, aside, it's a big deal. Right. And so there are many, many reasons why rationally, he should really stay here. Right. Financially, administratively, legally, medical, insurance, elite. All these reasons he should stay here. And none of it matters because he just, he just, he just feels it in his heart and he needs to go. He just wants to go. And so I also can't blame him because when I was 21, I remember specifically I, I living in the States and I had a, like a potential job in Germany in Duisburg, which is, sorry, Duisburg, people, but it's like one of the ugliest cities in Germany. I worked for this giant behemoth of a corporation. I think my job was going to be like, I don't know, photocopying or something. Who knows what I was supposed to do? It was in German all day. My German was not that great, although my German got a whole lot better. I lived next to a cemetery. I had this mean old witch of a landlord in my tiny little cubicle of a room. I worked from like 7am to 3pm I was absolutely unconscious by 4pm because I'd spoken German all day. I was dead tired. And so from the outside you would think, oh, wow, you made such a mistake. You made such a terrible decision to take this job in Germany. And yet if you had asked me, hey, Bradley, how's life? I would say, I am living my dream. I am the happiest person in the world. I'm living in Europe. I'm living what I wanted to do for years. I am the happiest person there is.
• 5:40
  Speaker B: Yes, yes. And also, even if you would have thought at that moment, maybe it wasn't all perfect, it was leading up to something else.
• 5:51
  Speaker A: Yeah. My future in Europe.
• 5:54
  Speaker B: So if we now what? You know, you. You made that first step. You let yourself lead into that first step, and looking back, you may think it wasn't perfect at that moment. You felt quite okay with it, but it led you to something else. Now what? And then now what? And then now what?
• 6:15
  Speaker A: You know, you. Earlier, you. You said we were talking about my now what? Project. You were sort of even coaching me, helping me with the whole project, and you were saying, because I was all concerned about, oh, will it be a book or will it be a podcast or will it be. Or whatever it is, who knows? And you were saying, well, make the decision of just getting started and let's just. Let's just have this conversation and see where it goes. And already the fact that Karina and Bradley are talking here and the conversation we've just had for the past half an hour was already worth. Thank you very much, Karina was already worth connecting. And so there you have it. That, like you say, it's not, oh, my perfect future in Europe. No, it's this weird job and I live next to a cemetery and I'm 21 years old and I live in Germany. And it will lead to something else. Probably.
• 7:03
  Speaker B: Yes. And. And when we, when we predetermine already, like, how the outcome should be, first of all, we do that from what we already know and not from what can be. Because we, yeah, we, we, you know, we. We walk like those, Those horses which have those things on their eyes.
• 7:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, the blinders.
• 7:25
  Speaker B: The blinders. We, we. We decide. We decide from the blinders. Whereas there are so much more. How often did. Do we come across situations that we've. We could never have imagined? Did I ever tell you how my husband and I got together?
• 7:45
  Speaker A: No.
• 7:46
  Speaker B: Well, that's also like, you know, divine intervention. My. I just told you that I was married before, so I was only married for a short time, like less than a year. I decided to divorce. I came back to the office and there was this new colleague. And I looked at him and I was like, that's not bad. That's actually quite nice. So we, you know, we were, we. We had to work with each other quite a lot, etc. One day I got an invitation for a tennis tournament in Antwerp. And because I was just divorced, I didn't have any, you know, friends or whatever because everybody was with a partner. We were still young. And I thought, well, you know, why don't I ask him? You know, we befriended. So he said, that's, that's great. I love tennis, but I just got a new car. And you've got a car that's so old that if we to Antwerp, we'll go with my car. And I said, well, that's great. That's, that's not a problem. But also we were working for a small company. So I also said to him, you know, we go as friends. And he said he was going to pick me up. So he picked me up and he was standing in front of the door and I thought that was such a stupid remark for me to say that we would go as friends. But okay. So we had a very nice evening. We were starting in a hotel. We were brought to the tennis tournament and brought back to the hotel. So we just had a really nice chat, had a nice evening. We came back to the hotel, we drove the car from the parking garage and one of the lights started blinking, but it was the oil light. And I was thinking, this is not happening. This is really not happening. So we went straight back to the hotel to call for the road assistance. And I was sitting there, you know, like waiting, like, okay, within a minute we can probably, you know, be on the road. And the guy said, you're not able to drive one more meter with that car. We need to order a tow car and it will come tomorrow morning. So we had to stay over. Oh wow. But, you know, we were very young and it was a five star hotel, it was very expensive. So we booked one room.
• 10:03
  Speaker A: Oh wow. Oh wow.
• 10:05
  Speaker B: I could not have imagined that even with the best script writer of Hollywood. And the next morning, the tow car came. You know, I was wearing a short skirt, you know, with my. I had to go high up in the, in the truck, both of us, and we had so much fun. So much fun. And I was back the next day at 7:30 in the evening. And you know what was wrong? Only the light was wrong. There was nothing wrong with the car. Yes. You know, until today, a lot of people think that my husband orchestrated wasn't. It really wasn't. And you know, even then we said, okay, what happened in Antwerp? And I can tell you it was a lot that happened in Antwerp. Happened in Antwerp, stays in Antwerp. And then he gave me a call, like, but we saw each other at work every day. But we, you know, we tried just to be friends. And then I think two weeks later he called me at home and he said, are you as much in love with me as I am with you?
• 11:12
  Speaker A: Oh, wow.
• 11:13
  Speaker B: And that's this year, 35 years ago. We are married for 35 years, actually. And I can tell you another thing. When we were walking in Antwerp, I wasn't even formally divorced. We were just working in Antwerp in the rain on that day when the car was at the garage. And I thought at that moment, if he would ask me to marry him right here, right now, I would say yes. And I still do when, you know, you know, Bradley, wow.
• 12:00
  Speaker A: You have me thinking now about the little light. I can see how people would say, did you orchestrate it? Because if there's actually nothing wrong with the car.
• 12:08
  Speaker B: No, no.
• 12:09
  Speaker A: You know, you said something super important. You said it's back to I was thinking about my Germany thing. You said, I made the decision, you know, to go to Germany with the information and knowledge and experience that I had at that time. Yes, that's it. That's all I have. So I can't make the decision about what will happen later because then, you know, there's a great word trajectory. You know the word, it's like in, like a rocket ship. It's, it's we're here on Earth and it's going to go to Jupiter. The trajectory is whatever.117 and 4422 poop. And so the trajectory is to go to Jupiter, but here it's so far away that if we were here on Earth and we make the rocket go like that, like a tiny little bit different because it's so far away now we're going to Saturn. So a tiny little trajectory change early can make a big change later on. So what you're saying is in Germany, I don't know where I'm going later, but I'm going to change this relatively short term trajectory, make this adjustment to the trajectory by accepting the terrible life in Germany, which I love because it's going to make this big change later. But I don't know. And I can't influence necessarily later. I can only influence now.
• 13:43
  Speaker B: Yes, you can only influence now. And what I also like this is what you're mentioning actually what I think life is about. So when you take either you follow your heart and you go to Germany, maybe if you hadn't gone to Germany, you would have another signal to your heart saying that you needed to do something else.
• 14:06
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:07
  Speaker B: And because there is, we were Talking about Joe Dispenser, because there is this field of opportunities. It's like there are all these different trajectories that you could go to in your life depending on which decisions you take, your heart brings you. And I think if we really want to step into our fullest possibilities, if we then obey and listen to the heart all the time, we live up to our fullest potential.
• 14:45
  Speaker A: You know, you said another thing here. I'm very visual. And so that's, I think, like things like rocket ships and stuff. And you just said, follow your heart. And if. And if it hadn't been Germany, now I'm thinking of, like a highway. And so I'm on the highway. And here's the Germany exit when I'm 21, but maybe there's the France exit when I'm 22.
• 15:13
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 15:14
  Speaker A: But I'm gonna go to Europe because that's in the. Follow my heart. Yeah, yeah.
• 15:21
  Speaker B: And. And the thing is in the trust that the decision you're. Or what you're doing now that you're listening to what, what your intuition or what your heart says will bring you something, and you don't necessarily have to know what. So it doesn't have to be now. What?
• 15:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:44
  Speaker B: Just be.
• 15:46
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:48
  Speaker B: Instead of being a human doing. Be a human being.
• 15:53
  Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. So I want to come back to the word confidence, because that's the original reason I wanted to talk with you before we got off on a related trajectory of. Well, because we were talking about spirituality and business, and you wrote a book, mind your confidence, mind your business. And I wanted to originally talk with you about. With this whole. Now what? And decision making or follow your heart, where does confidence come in? Right. Because you, you said. I mean, wow. I mean, you went to. And you went to Antwerp, right. And you, You, You. You dared to go to Antwerp. You could have. I don't know, you could have been home crying for months or something. But you, you clearly had the confidence to say, hey, let's go to the tennis tournament.
• 16:50
  Speaker B: Yes. Yes.
• 16:51
  Speaker A: So where does confidence play a role in decision making or follow your heart in that balance?
• 16:58
  Speaker B: Yes. Well, I think there's a very big relation to trust. So if you have done certain things that will make you realize you've made a right decision, so to say, or you're on the right path.
• 17:16
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 17:17
  Speaker B: Gives you a kind of confidence. And from the confidence, you can trust. So, okay, if I follow my heart, I know it will work out fine. So I'm confident that I can listen to that message.
• 17:39
  Speaker A: So where. What is trust? Is trust from the past? Do I trust because it worked before?
• 17:49
  Speaker B: I would say it's both. It worked before. In one sense, it worked before. And maybe you need that if you don't have the confidence yet. So from experiences from the past, you gain confidence. You gain trust that when you follow your heart, you will do it right. And you trust that also the universe has your best interest at mind.
• 18:18
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 18:19
  Speaker B: So I would say I'm very much into the whole quantum leap, so there is no time. So, you know, like it's. It's the past, the present, and the future.
• 18:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Which is a concept as. As far down the spiritual path that I believe I am the quantum leap. And the past, present, future being the same. I. I struggle with that one.
• 18:40
  Speaker B: Yes, yes, I get it. Yes.
• 18:42
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 18:43
  Speaker B: But. Okay, well, but just take like. Okay, you've. You've gained confidence because you have trusted your intuition and your confidence that what will happen next will be in your best interest.
• 18:58
  Speaker A: Okay. And what if someone lacks some trust or would like some more trust or doesn't feel like they have enough trust or confidence and.
• 19:08
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 19:08
  Speaker A: And they want this with my silly example of Germany, but they want to. They want to move to Mexico or they want to make a big change, but they don't. Maybe they don't have the trust or the confidence. For me, I don't have trust or confidence. What do I do?
• 19:20
  Speaker B: No, because then you. You either step out of your comfort zone, but not step out. But then it's a huge jump, which makes you very uneasy at first.
• 19:32
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 19:33
  Speaker B: Or you start gaining confidence by listening to small things, you know, that gives. That brings you the intuition. Like, okay, seeing somebody on the street that you don't. You feel like, that's. That's scary. I'll take another alley and you're safe.
• 19:50
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 19:50
  Speaker B: You know, gaining. Gaining that confidence, gaining that trust that when you follow your heart, when you do that, it will be. Okay.
• 20:01
  Speaker A: You know, to bring it back to this conversation, as you said, with my whole now what? Project. And as I had said. Oh, yeah. I imagine a book or a course or whatever down the road. And I like what you're saying because. Reduces the anxiety or stress or pressure of that final goal.
• 20:25
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 20:26
  Speaker A: And make it. And makes it smaller. And my only goal now is to have a discussion about this with you.
• 20:32
  Speaker B: Yes. And also because if I ask you right now, are you okay?
• 20:40
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:41
  Speaker B: Yes. Yeah.
• 20:42
  Speaker A: Yeah. Great. Yeah. Okay.
• 20:43
  Speaker B: I ask it again because we're two seconds further right now. Are you okay?
• 20:47
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:48
  Speaker B: Yeah. So the anxiety is for something that's out there, but if we stay in the here and now, we are okay and just let it happen, you know, like, yeah, trust. Trust and have confidence, you know, for what I do feel is you need a kind of. A little bit of guts.
• 21:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:12
  Speaker B: That comes from the confidence.
• 21:14
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:15
  Speaker B: But it builds on it. You know, it's. It's something like. Maybe nowadays you have those 3D printers, you know, like, where you can even. You can even build with concrete. So you build on this little bit of concrete, you know, like, oh, yeah, I. You know, I. I trusted my gut. Oh, yes. I'm confident that it will work out. And then you put another layer on it and another layer on. And another layer on it.
• 21:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:39
  Speaker B: Okay. Right now, where am I today? I'm okay. It's. Nothing bad happens. Yeah. Okay. Right now, this moment. I always try to zoom out and zoom in, like, okay, this big thing. I don't know what the future will bring. I had that with many also job interviews. When they say, oh, where do you see yourself in five years? I don't know. I can't even know what will happen in 10 seconds. So why would I want to know what happens in five years? So go with. You know, go with, okay, what. What. What is my inspired action for now, for today.
• 22:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:24
  Speaker B: And then for tomorrow, and then take it from there. And it doesn't mean you can't have a goal, because your goal. Your goal is to know what, but you don't know how yet.
• 22:36
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:36
  Speaker B: So leave the how to the universe and take your inspired action into the path or the trajectory that should bring you there.
• 22:47
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:47
  Speaker B: The space.
• 22:49
  Speaker A: Yeah. I like, leave the how to the universe and take my. In my now. What. My. What we're doing is I'm already successful because we've just had this conversation.
• 23:02
  Speaker B: Yes. And celebrate that. Don't think like, oh, but I don't know yet. I still don't know.
• 23:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:09
  Speaker B: I celebrate that. I've had a great conversation.
• 23:12
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 23:13
  Speaker B: One of the things that the universe is helping me to get to the now. What?
• 23:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's. It's the step. It's the one layer of the concrete. It's the yes. Yeah. Okay. This is a perfect time to stop for this session because now you also. You've honestly given me confidence in the next one. And what I would love to do is, is talk again with you about this and see where we are in, I don't know, three months down the road and. And have a similar discussion and see where we go, because you and I have so much to talk about in this area. And I'm sure whatever trajectory we go down, we will get there so each.
• 23:57
  Speaker B: Other through a weird, weird way, too.
• 24:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:06
  Speaker B: So.
• 24:06
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 24:07
  Speaker B: I love talking with you, Bradley. Thank you very much for doing this today.
• 24:10
  Speaker A: Me, too. Karina. Thank you so much for doing this. And not, as I say to one of my friends, we met him in France. We don't say au revoir or, you know, goodbye. We say, you know, a la prochain or to the next time.
• 24:23
  Speaker B: To the next time.
• 24:24
  Speaker A: Yes, to the next time. Okay. Thanks, Karina.
• 24:27
  Speaker B: Thank you very much.