Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed R&D Officer From MCC (Part 5) (5/9/26)

Transcript

Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed R&D Officer From MCC (Part 5) (5/9/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

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  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
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  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right
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  back in to the interview given by the R and
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  D officer from MCC to the OIG inspectors. Question, Okay,
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  so at what point should control then at some point though,
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  call the shoe and say Rays isn't coming back? Answer
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  if the count's not bad, They wouldn't know to call
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  them and say they wouldn't say that, no question. So
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  the shoe very well may never have been contacted or
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  would have been contacted saying Rays isn't coming back? Consider
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  him gone? Answer correct question? Okay, So they would have
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  only known that based upon doing rounds and counts, is
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  what you're saying. Answer right, But if they don't know
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  that he needs to sell mate, because I don't believe
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  there was any notification that another individual had to be
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  placed in a cell with them, So nobody would know
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  that even if you're making rounds and counting your unit,
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  you wouldn't know that we need if there's no note
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  vacation question. Well, notifications were made and the people were
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  saying that they passed it along to other shifts saying yeah,
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  he's required davisselmate. However, they're saying that Reyus is gone,
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  possibly not returning, make sure to get him a bunkie
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  if he doesn't. So it's kind of like, at what
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  point does it determine when is Reyus not getting a bunkie?
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  When Israeus not coming home coming back. We've also been
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  told by a number of people though they say R
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  and D would call us to say, yeah, Reyus isn't
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  coming back. But to you, you're saying, no, that doesn't happen.
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  We don't call SHO. We would have called them to
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  say that Reyus he gets cut off by the guard.
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  It's a possibility we could have called. But then sometimes
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  we don't call. You know, if there is a miscount,
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  there would be no reason for us to call. We
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  would just key the in mad out. Sometimes they call
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  us back and say, hey, inmates, so and so went
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  out to court. Is he coming back? Some units will
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  call and ask question, so they'll call rather than the
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  other way around. Answer. Sometimes they call us question all right, answer,
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  but the only way they'll know what the inmates might
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  And then because of the shift change, you might have
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  an officer from the specific set of ours and then
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  now you have a new officer coming in at these
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  specific set of hours, they won't know who went out
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  to court. Unless they read their court list or they
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  look at their log, they probably wouldn't know. And if
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  they're doing account and their account is what it's supposed
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  to be, they won't know. Question. So you're a very
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  unique person that we're talking to is both has both
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  sets of knowledge with the facts that you've worked with
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  custody as well as non custody, and you know how
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  these things work when people are removed. If the people
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  in the shoe knew, and let's say let's just say,
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  for this example, say everybody in the shoe knows that
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  Epstein is required to have a cell mat Reyes leaves
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  at eight thirty, he has a pre removal. At what
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  time do you believe they should have reassigned a new
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  cell mate to Epstein? Answer? Well, if they knew that
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  he was a pre removal, then they would be trying
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  to work on that immediately as soon as possible. But
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  that's if they knew. Question. So, if they knew, let's
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  say he gets cut off by the guard and if
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  that was what was required. Question, Let's say the OIC
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  absolutely knows he's WAB not to return, do you believe
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  that he should have immediately then started working on a
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  new cell mate. Answer, he would notify the lieutenant. Hey, move,
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  That's what he would do if that was what was required.
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  Question so, and if their argument or let's say that
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  the lieutenants and the oics are arguing, that's premature. He
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  could always return, So we pass it on to the
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  next shift, saying he gets cut off by the guard. Well,
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  it's premature if you don't know that the inmate's not
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  coming back. Question in this case, though, if he's WAB,
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  do you believe that he's still premature? Answer no. If
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  he is WAB, but looking at this, I don't know.
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  Question no. No, I'm just saying if he was WAB
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  at that point, do you think that it's still premature
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  or do you think at the time it's appropriate? Answer No,
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  If it was okay, if it was known that this
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  inmate was leaving and he wasn't coming back, and if
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  it was known that this individual needed to have someone
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  else in the cell with him, then yes, at that
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  time it would be required to replace or move them
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  in the cell with somebody else. So yeah, Question so,
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  when you're saying non though, So I mean known that
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  he's a WAB, he gets cut off by the guard,
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  known that he's WAB, and also known that this individual
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  requires a cell mate at all times, cannot be housed alone. Now,
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  there are some inmates that have to reckon a cell alone,
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  and there are signs on their doors, and that there
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  are some inmates that might be required to have a
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  cell mate. But if there's no notification, and I work
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  a unit and this is not my normal unit, and
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  I'm working this unit and I'm just filling in here,
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  and then then I'm working and I don't know, and
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  there's nothing placed on the walls that state that, or
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  on this inmate, on the door or maybe on the clipboard.
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  I wouldn't know that question. No, No, that's not what
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  I'm saying. What I'm saying is I think you've probably
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  specifically talking about the Tova and Michael Thomas I'm talking
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  about in the morning at eight thirty am, prior to
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  that time, they get a court list WAB and the
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  OIC says, yeah, he's WAB. He is likely not to return,
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  he's got his bag. You know, I'm taking him down.
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  I'm giving them off I know, he says, I know
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  Epstein's required DA have a cell mate. Answer, Oh, well,
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  if he knows it. Question, but is it a legitimate
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  argument in your opinion to say placing Epstein with a
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  new cell mate is premature because Reyes could return. Is
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  that a valid argument? Answer? Well, based on what you
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  just said, knowing she gets cut off by the investigator
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  with WAB and with knowing Epstein requires right. Answer, Well,
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  based on what you just said, knowing that he's WAB,
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  that would not be premature because he's leaving. Question right answer. Now,
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  if for some reason it gets canceled and they say, hey,
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  we're not moving this inmate, We're going to move him
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  at a later time, because those things do happen, his
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  trip he got canceled, But knowing that he's going to
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  be leaving, I don't think that would be premature, no question.
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  So if he leaves at eight thirty eight in the
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  morning and the OIC shift ends that two PM, does
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  that is there? Would he know that the trip got canceled?
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  I guess the way I would be asking, he knows
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  the guy left at eight thirty eight WAB, and I
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  guess by that time, I would think by two pm
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  if a trip got canceled, they would know correct answer yeah,
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  because the inmate would have went back upstairs. He would
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  have went back to the unit. Question right, So how
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  often do inmates that go WAB and their trips don't
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  get canceled? How often do those inmates actually return? Answer? Oh,
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  they go upstairs immediately. Question No No. So I'm saying
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  if Raus is listed as WAB, he left at eight
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  thirty in the morning, his trip didn't get canceled by
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  two pm because he never came back upstairs. How often
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  do WAB inmates actually come back to the institution? Answer
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  it's happened with inmates going on in airlift. The marshals
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  take inmates all the way out of their institution and
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  then have to bring them all the way back. It's happened. Question.
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  And let's say if out of one hundred WABS answer,
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  I'll say about if I had to count, maybe about
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  it's happened. It's happened question. But I mean, does it
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  happen like very random and seldomly, or does it happen
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  like one out of five times this happens? Or are
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  we talking about like one out of one hundred or
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  one out of a thousand. Answer, I'll say maybe like
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  ten out of one hundred. Question, So about ten percent
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  of the time it does happen. Answer, it has happened, yep.
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  Question Okay, so ten percent of the time, all right,
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  answer it's happened. It might be something with the airlift,
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  the paperwork is not right, she gets cut off. So
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  then with keeping that in mind, that ten percent of
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  the time that has happened, then do you believe that
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  is slightly a valid argument to say, yeah, we know
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  that he needs a cell mate, but we don't think
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  it's appropriate to do it in this shift. It should
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  be done on the next shift when we're verifying that
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  he's in fact not coming back. Answer Yeah, I would
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  say that's appropriate question. Okay, answer, because you don't know.
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  You just don't know. Anything is subject to change, so
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  I would say that's appropriate question. Okay. So it's different
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  with you. You're saying airlift Now we're talking about pre
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  removed specifically for court. Answer, well, airlifts could be pre removed. Question.
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  But what I'm saying is it's wab because the person
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  is going to court, nothing to do with transport's getting
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  messed up. If this inmate is WAB going to court?
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  How often do the inmates going to court wab actually
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  return answer? They mostly go question, So it's like maybe
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  one in one hundred answer. Maybe one in one hundred
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  that might have come back, but most of the time
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  they go question. So even one in one hundred is
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  like yeah. No, They pretty much are always gone answer yeah. Question.
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  So then that argument of he gets cut off by
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  the guard, it's got to be something drastic that they
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  might not have come back. But most of the time
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  they go question. So that argument that we needed to
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  wait until verification, that really doesn't hold. Wait then if
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  they know he was going to court, wab answer. If
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  they know he was going to court, wab Yeah, question,
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  then the argument doesn't hold wait answer. It's a catch
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  twenty two because I've seen so many things that have
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  happened that you might think somebody is gone and they
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  bring them back question. Sure, but it sounds like he
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  gets cut off by the guard. He might get on
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  that side and something might come up in his paperwork
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  where they're like, oh, we got a new case, we
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  got a new charge, and we're not transferring him. We
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  got to sort this out. I mean, it has happened
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  where somebody has come back to the jail, but most
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  of the time they do go question and it sounds
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  like it's extremely rare circumstances. Answer yeah, question all right,
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  So at that point, do you think that they should
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  have taken action immediately if they knew it was wab
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  and going to court knowing the fact that Epstein needed
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  a sell mate. We know Reyes left, Epstein needed a
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  sell mate, the OIC and the Shoe officers knew that
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  he needed a cell mat. Should they have taken action immediately? Answer?
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  Maybe they should have notified their supervisor. Answer who would
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  they have notified of this? Answer the Shoe lieutenant and
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  let them know, Hey, the guard gets cut off by
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  the investigator indiscernible, No, Shoe lieutenant. Should it be the
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  ops lieutenant indiscernible lieutenant? Answer the ops or the acting
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  lieutenant notify, Hey, we got bunkin mates, so up with
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  so and so he can't be housed by himself. Question Okay, Answer,
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  but like I said, communication around here is not at
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  its best. So what should have happened, what should have
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  taken place might not necessarily happen because everybody doesn't know
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  everything that's going on around here, everybody does not communicate
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  the way that they should. So you might know it,
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  but just because you know it, you might assume I
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  know it and we're working together. Not necessarily true. Question, sure,
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  and yeah, we would only go off of what people
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  tell us directly, like did you know this? Yes, I
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  knew it, okay, and you know so so he gets
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  cut off by the guard because it's not like if
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  I was working up there, that's not my normal unit.
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  If I was working up there, I would not know
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  that question, right answer. You know, if I'm coming from
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  another department and that's not my steady post, I would
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  not know that question. Yeah, and that's why we're listing
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  people like, oh I see shoe, Lieutenant, Ops, Lieutenant, Activities lieutenant,
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  these people that he gets cut off. You know, it's
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  so hard to say yes and no. But if you
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  know someone new, then yes. But everybody that works in
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  this institution, we're all over the place. Sometimes we don't
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  know we don't know everything about every unit, So that's
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  the unfortunate part. Question do you recall anyone calling R
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  and D looking for the status of REUS that day? Answer?
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  I don't remember. No, I'm not going to I don't
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  remember that, no question, All right, do you have anything
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  else on the topic before the other investigator jumps in,
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  I don't think so. We kind of beat it, all right, folks.
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  We're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next
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  episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
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  we left off. All the information that goes with this
• 12:52
  episode can be found in the description box.