Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 389 - Accused Assassins

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 389 - Accused Assassins · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Repent of any Saints, Juice, tear up the True down
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the rails, Brother junis a mom, David very bud thing
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Mister Foods in the pure whenness, It's rainy, night ship,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: the lights, the Result Side Never be rides fend of
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: the Basting Year and the fuck refree Frojuice.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: And here we go.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: What's up, everybody? Welcome to the show. Hopefully it's not
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: Echo Joe or Echo Bob this evening where everyone we
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: will see, we will see. This is episode three eight
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: niner of the Lone Gunman Podcast. Feels like forever it does.
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: It's Uh, it's been a frustrating a couple of weeks
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: with Echo Joe. My former laptop here has been echoing,
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: so I had to buy a new one the other day.
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: But we seem to be okay for right now for
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: the most part. And uh missed you guys, allegedly missed
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: you the triple B And how's it going, how's your week?
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: I'm glad it's over, and I'm glad this went smoothly.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: I don't know how many more last minute fucking here
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: you goes. I can take well, you have the show
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: planned out. And then in the last minute, it's like, yeah,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, It's like, but uh happened here tonight and hopefully,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: uh hopefully all is good. But Joe, baby face, Joe,
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: welcome in. All of the are good. Lord, put some
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: stubble on that guy, damn face. All right, you look
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: like a young child. I repriest, That's what I was
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: going for.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: It is good Friday, So happy good Friday to all
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: who celebrate. But yeah, south to West with another gold medal.
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: He's racking them up, man, Yeah he is. You love
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: having that saved forgive me Father, I have, but thankfully
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Jesus forgives all.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Sins he does.
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: Allegedly. Mister Jack Taylor, who has texted me in the
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: past couple of days, gets the silver and tiny with
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: the bronze with a little bronze emoji she has there.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: Let's see who else, mister Mike the library man, how
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: are you sir? Damn Joe looks old damn.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: No, okay, I actually have to address this rom because
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: you have now had three AI images of me, and
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: you seem to be aging me in each one.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Bro is the only photograph that I have of you.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: You have sunglasses on. So when I tell the AI
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: to make a cariacture of you, but remove the glasses.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: Things get fucky. Now. I did tell it to add
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: a little bit more gray hair this time.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: Oh there we go the truth.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: But uh, you know I'm trying to keep it true, true,
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: true to your life.
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: You know. Yeah, I did put some just for men
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: in the other day.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: So in your eyebrows, no on.
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: Like the side, like my wings like polly walnuts. What
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: you gotta keep it up right? Two seventy four. What's up? Yes,
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: happy early Easter? If if you are Catholic for sure
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: or Christian, Claude Williams and and new Dene says, howdie,
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: boys and girls, what's up, buddy, mister James Smith, nice
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: to see you, crazy one musk and oh my god,
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: get their horn ready.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: Oh I've got I've got two fingers, a thumb and
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: a ball on the button, So go ahead and announce.
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: It all right, Well, the double B has given one
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: hundred dollars super.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Super and sorry folks out there listening to your cars,
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: hopefully you just didn't run off the road, but totally worthy. Brandon,
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: appreciate your brother.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: He is back. Lent is technically over now and he
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: sent me a funny picture of him with a guinness
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: because he had, you know, uh, taken a little break
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: from TLG.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: Not welcome back to the sins of the world, my friend.
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: And drinking as well. So he is enjoying his guinness
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: and and watching us, and we are happy to have
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: him back. Me and the Double B have been like
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: giggling like little girls every night. Not every night, but
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: a few times a week. And he has sent me
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: a good, nice care package. We'll keep that kind of private,
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: but get a little pep in the step, if you
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: know what I mean. No pep tides. There are all
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: the rage of these days.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: Look it up, uh, Zendar, stick to my steroids.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: Zendar sixty one.
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: What's up?
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: And James Smith with a two dollars super Chat, Thank
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: you sir, yesday God. I missed all of you guys
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: so much. South to West. Oh my God, Jesus Christ Brandon,
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: get it ready again? Another fifty dollars super Chat?
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: What Yeah, you missed Anthony? So what's up?
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: Oh Anthony? I did miss you.
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: Happy Easter everybody, Yes.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: Sir, what's carpet down under? Yes? Go ahead, Joe.
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: Happy good Friday to you. All. If you don't know him,
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: find him. You only die ones piece be with you all.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, thank you, God bless you.
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: And he gives Brandon, he gifts he's preferring for a wedding.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: Good Lord.
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: Ten long gunman memberships.
• 8:19
  Speaker 6: Oh, I'm not gonna do this ten times a movement,
• 8:34
  Speaker 6: Hell Helleluiah, thank you sir.
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm gonna skip who got them because there's so
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: many of them? But uh, thank the Double B when
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: you get a chance. Let's see, I am drinking forty
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: days of lent booze free. Double Bee says, that's that's impressive.
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: Derek Ward, what's up a budd either d do? How's
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: everyone doing tonight? We'll catch the replay a little later.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: That's okay. Yes, Oh good Tony Holman, Happy, good Friday.
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: Good to see you back, Double B. Yes, we all
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: love the double B. And uh paulu because do we
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: have wagers on Joe B check poly market which is
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: the site working about on anything?
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, welcome to Cashi. I just downloaded it.
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: What poly market?
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: No, Calshi, you can do the same thing.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: How do you spell it?
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: S h I oh k s hi. This is not
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: a paid promotion. By the way, they are not paying
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: for this.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: But we are open to sponsorships.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, our inbox is always open at the Lone Gum
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: and podcast at email dot com.
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: Yes, uh, peach sisters, what's up? How are you? Mister
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: Robert Fuel? I always mispronounced that miss See who else?
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: Derek Schwinder Swinman, Yes, Sally, yesbe is here finally. Uh.
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: It has been frustrating prepping and then realizing you still
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: have an echo. Yes, I'm out of the penalty box.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: Tiny dancer.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Uh, okay, it's it's it's him. The original image is him,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: as the original image is me. The only problem is again,
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: I don't think my head's that big either. I don't
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: have that that good of a tan. I do have
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: this pearsonally blue eyes though, But.
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: Hey, I mean look, I don't look bad. I looked
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: just like maybe ten years older.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: But you got a little salt and pepper in your hair,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: that's all.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: That's all right. The girls love the.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: If they're smoking a chimney, there's a fire in a fireplace,
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: is what they say, right.
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: The ladies love the salt and pepper. Allegedly, Let's see
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: anyone else that I'm not missing as I scroll. No,
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: I think we're good. So, uh, let's get to it
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: as I try to navigate my new computer which I ordered,
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: which will be an interesting process here. And we're gonna
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: be talking about some alleged accused assassins tonight.
• 12:01
  Speaker 7: Not Roscoe White, no, otherwise other scaf Yes, because I
• 12:08
  Speaker 7: believe we had a show called Roscoe White Alleged Assassin back.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: In the back in the day.
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it was.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: This is just alleged assassins because we got a couple
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: of them. You know, we're gonna be talking about here tonight,
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: a couple.
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: Of we're gonna be talking about three. We're gonna be
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: starting off with Emilio Santana, yes, and then going into
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: other scauffuses. Yeah.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: He was meant to be included in the members only show,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: but uh, you know, technical difficulties. But we got it
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: back tonight, so we figured he he is one accused assassin,
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  Speaker 3: so we'll throw him in there.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, and let me figure out what's going on here. Okay, alright,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: let me see how I could share I know if
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: you could put it up there, mister Robert.
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  Speaker 3: Mm, it already is, Joseph.
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  Speaker 4: Uh, it already is and on the left this very
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  Speaker 4: handsome gentleman Emilio Santana, which he ha he has a
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: very interesting.
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  Speaker 3: Story and zero arch in his eyebrows.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he has some interesting eyebrows. So and uh. On
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  Speaker 4: the right Charles char Charlie Nicoletty. We'll get into lastly here,
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  Speaker 4: but first we're going to get into some Garrison documents
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  Speaker 4: talking about him. And this is from the box seven
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  Speaker 4: of the I believe it's twelve boxes Rob During the
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  Speaker 4: summer of nineteen sixty three, Oswalt came into the office
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  Speaker 4: of Attorney Dean Andrews. Do you know about three to
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  Speaker 4: five times. On each occasion he was accompanied by a
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  Speaker 4: Latin who was stocky, fairly short, and had an athletic
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  Speaker 4: build and a thick neck.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. I can't forget the thick neck.
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  Speaker 4: Yes. Andrews describes him as having flat hair which is
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: crossed out. I don't know what that means. And Andrews' parlance,
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  Speaker 4: this man could go to quote, Fist City pretty good
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: if he at.
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  Speaker 3: I'm telling you, this old boy go to Fist City
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  Speaker 3: pretty good if he had to. You know what I'm saying.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a joke in there some where.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: That's why Oswald switched when he walked in.
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: Apparently, maybe this man spoke little and then only in Spanish.
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: I think they meant to say little English. Nevertheless, he
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: always I believe that says, entered the inner office with Patsy,
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: who is Oswald, and.
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: See if my touch screen.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: Works, and it's not working, and remained.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: Remained there you go, thank you, there with out comment
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: until Patsy discussed his legal problems. Of course, he was
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: trying to get his discharge changed, right.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Rob, Yes, Oswald in his discharge.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: There's another joking.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: He loved it.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: During this period in New Orleans, Oswald apparently appeared at
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: the habbat In, a bar with a man who spoke
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: Spanish in order tequila. He identified himself to Evenisto Rododiguez,
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: the bartender as a Cuban. Rodriguez describes him as being
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: about five to eight, stocky and white, with very hairy
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: eyed wide yes. He describes the Latin's hair as receding
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: on the sides or Espana. The owner of the bar
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: Habana Bar, of course, states that the man with Patsy
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: looks Spanish, more Cuban than anything. In the summer of
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: sixty three, Chico returned to New Orleans for a visit
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: of as yet under undetermined duration statements by two people,
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: I have no idea who they are, Iron Irinian and
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: Lewis a statement by Miguel Torres and bringing again to
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: his interview in a couple of slides made while enroute
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: to our office from the State penitentiary, so who's on
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: his way to jail, indicated that he and his quote
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: fall partner end quote. Emilio Santana, who had been brought
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: in the underground from the underground in Cuba in early
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: sixty three, had dinner with Chico in a French Quarter
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: apartment during which his enlistment and the revolutionary movement was sought.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: This apartment was in the thirteen hundred block of Dauphine Street,
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: which is the residence locale of the man whom we
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: have to conclude as Clay Bertrand.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: You can, but you can just call me Chico.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: We'll get the Chico on a second, I think here,
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: Clay Bertrand it will be recalled. Contacted Attorney Dean Andrews
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: during this period about helping Patsy again Oswald with his
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: legal problems, and subsequently after the assassination called Andrews about
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: representing Patsy. It appears very possible that the apartment where
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Chico stayed during this return visit to New Orleans was
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: either Clay Bertrand's apartment or one in the same building.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: I don't know if they mean building or street, but
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: was clay Shaw's thirteen hundred?
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: It was like thirteen thirteen. I think I could be wrong,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: but I don't think it was an apartment. I thought
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: it was a hat, like a standalone ha. Yeah, it
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: could be yeah.
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, either way, very close.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, definitely, it's not the same building neighbors.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: Right the note, the details as to tours'es and Santana's
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: dinner on the thirteen one hundred block of Delphine with
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: Chico are not confirmed. Tours, in fact later saw to
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: claim that this was not Chico, but there is sound
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: reason to believe he was lying at this point and
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: he's being kept down here for a.
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: Lie detector test.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: The surmised relationship between Chico and Clay Bertrand is also
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: unconfirmed at this point. So now we're going to go
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: to an email to mister Jim Gaddison from Andrews. An
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: email memory memor memorandum. I don't think email it was
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: around back then, but memorandum. Let's say tight report if
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: you will interview with Miguel Cruz, who, as you know.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: ROB was.
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: At the Fractae. Yes, Miguel Manuel Cruz, I believe his
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: middle name was. I traveled to Baton Rouge's, Louisiana to
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: talk to Miguel Ruz, who informed me that he was
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: present when Carlos Bregnier and Oswalt had the fight on
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: Canal Street in front of the my Son Blanche building.
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: Miguel's address is blah blah blah blah blah blah blah,
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: Stadium Street, LSU Campus telephone number blah blah blah. Miguel
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: Cruz is from Camaguay to Cuba and he came to
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: know this country in December of nineteen sixty two. He
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: says that he does not know Carlos Ciroga, Alberto Fowler
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: or Riccardo Davis. He said that he had done some
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: work for Alpha sixty six, whose leader is Eloy Gutierrez Minoya,
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: who was subsequently subsequently captured by Castro and maybe a
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: prisoner in Cuba at the present time. Cruz said that
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: The first time he saw Oswalt was on Oswalt in Premia,
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: had a fight on Canal Street, and that he in
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: Pregnire's store was informed by Celso Hernandez that Oswald was
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: distributing leaflets again.
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: Another person at the Fractice Right.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: Crew said that two days before this, Oswald had come
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: into Brgia's store and offered to help.
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: Him train Cubans for the invasion of Cuba.
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: Oswalt show Bringia Brgier a marine training manual that he had,
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: and Oswalt told Brignier that this manual told how to
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: train people for warfare. Crew said that he and Brignier
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: and Hernandez left the store and immediately went to Canal Street,
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: where Brigney and Oswald exchanged a few words and had
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: the fight hang on a second.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: Joe, yeah, uh, just a quick question, because this is
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: not it's not clicking for me. You said Miguel Torres
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: before this is Miguel Cruz nothing to do with Emilio Santana.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: I just don't know what Miguel Cruz has to do
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: with Emilio Santana. I could be wrong.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: I think we're gonna get there.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: In the next slot, Okay, just check it. Yeah, Miguel's crossed.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: No no tourres was just a random throw in there
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: in the document. Uh. Crew said that he was arrested
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: along with oswald and Brigne and sat next to Oswalt
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: in the police car on the way to the district.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: That sounds like a good idea. He said that oswald
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: never said a word either in the police car or
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: in the district. The next time cru saw Oswalt was
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: when they had to go to court. We know that
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: we saw that video, he believes. The following day. Crew
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: said at the time, Oswaldt did not say anything to anyone,
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: blah blah. Cruz said he had never seen Oswalt any
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: strong looking Latin American type individuals, but he could remember
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: a strong looking Latin American type person around twenty five
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: thirty years old, and I believe u Emilio was like
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: twenty seven or twenty eight, who was a little taller
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: than Oswalt and weighed close to two hundred pounds. Remember
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: the stocky thick description standing in front of the Mason
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: Blanche building with a camera and taking pictures of Oswalt
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: and other people when Oswalt was distributing leaflets. There, he
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: asked a few people where they were from and seemed.
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: Interested in what was going on.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: He was dressed in suit and tie and wore dark glasses.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: Cru said that he did not know a couple of
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: scaffoozas in front of the trademark. Cru said that he
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: knows Emilio Santana. He can remember that Santana was driving
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: a big, almost new car that Santana told him he
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: was making money working for the CIA taking people out
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: of Cuba. And we will get to the CIA documents
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: confirming that Emilio Santana was a CIA paid employee for almost.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Three years and possibly running whoors to Texas out of
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Florida and some heroin with Arcassa Smith in his big,
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: brand new car. Yeah.
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: Well, we know a lot of these Cuban exiles always
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: had this kind of side hustles, right, It's par for
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: the course for them. Cru said that Santana came to
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: his house one time and wanted Cruise to give him
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: a letter and some papers which would signify that Emelio
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: Santana was a member of Alpha sixty six. Santana said
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: that this would help him collect some money for the group.
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: Cru said that after Santana got the letter and some papers,
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: he never returned to his house. Cru said that Santana
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: used to hang around the Florida Avenue project by the
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: BNC Supermarket where there used to be a lot of Cubans.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: And also they moved to the Saint Thomas Project. I
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: don't know if that means. I don't know if it's
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: like a housing project or something, but just an area
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: they hung around. Cruse stated that he this is kind
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: of where we get the follow up from last episode.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: Cruse stated that he knows Arcacia by name, only that
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: he doesn't know David Ferry, clay Shaw, Clay bertrand doctor
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: Geek Tart, which is of course sylvia uncle's Sylvia Odio's uncle,
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: or anything about the Cubans training camp across the lake.
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: So now you know, Ron. We talk a lot about
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: the flow of documents, right, this is a counterintelligence CIA
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: document talking about Emilios Antenna, Galindo, Galindo Cortel. In response
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: to your request, subjects file was reviewed and Station JM
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: Wave was asked to supplement the information in headquartered files
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: with any additional information which would be of value and
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: would be in judging the effect on the agency's subjects
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: being identified by the Garrison Investigation or NBC. Our review
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: shows that subject was recruited by the agency in October
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty two, not nineteen sixty as was reported in
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: an earlier memorandum. He was given limited training for use
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: as an area guide on an infiltration operation in which
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: he participated during the latter part of May nineteen sixty three.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: Subject exfiltrated with his family about one week after being
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: infiltrated and was subsequently terminated. So here we have confirmation
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: he was employed by the CIA, but allegedly he exfiltrated,
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: which means he left after being infiltrated a week after
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: his family was, which doesn't really make sense. And I
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: have some more CIA documents that kind of contradict this
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: UH later in the Parrot Point, A bunch of the
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: staff that he had contact with UH are almost all redacted,
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: other than Robert G. L Wall, who I don't know
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: who he is, and a bunch of other Cuban exile
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: agents that I'm also not familiar with.
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: Numbering a belt to me.
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: But neither station, JM Wave nor headquarters have any record subjects,
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: whereabouts or activities between October and December nineteen sixty three.
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: So that's an interesting couple long time frame. Yeah, I'd
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: say maybe the most interesting. Now we're going to get
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: to the Orleans Parish grand jury testimony in Miguel Torres
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: in nineteen fifty seven, and this dude is very standoffish. Miguel.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Do you know the name of Miguel Torres? Now right?
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: Yes? Okay, yeah, Miguel, do you know the names of
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: some individuals involved to be in the assassination of President Kennedy?
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: I would like to consult my attorney.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: I would like to consult my attorney.
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you can keep on saying that, because it's going
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: to go on for a while. Do you ever have
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: did you ever have vacasion to meet with Emilio Santana
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: and serves you a conscious smith in the thirteen hundred
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: block of Duphine Street in the summer of nineteen sixty three.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: Since I do not have permission to consult with my attorney,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: I refuse to answer on the grounds that it might
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: intend to incriminate me.
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: Miguel, do you know Lee Harvey Oswald?
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: I wish a permission to consult to my attorney.
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: God that that accent's good. Did you and Emelio Santana
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: go to Dallas in the fall of I believe it's
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: a typo nineteen sixty three.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: I wish our permission to consult my attorney.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: Do you know of the relationship of Emelio Santana and
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: Jack Ruby?
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: I wish a permission to consult to my attorney.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: We have a statement which we have obtained from Emilio Santana.
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: Do you know him?
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: See yes?
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: In this statement he described a meeting with you in
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: New Orleans in the summer of nineteen sixty three, And
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: you can see the five is kind of directed to
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: the sixth there, which is why I believe it was
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: a type on the previous page, and he described Sergio
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: Kochia Smith as being present. You want to tell us
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: about this meeting.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: I would like it to consult with my attorney.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: Did you attend the meeting with Sergio Kochia Smith and
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: Emilio Santana in the thirteen hundred block of Delphine Street
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: in the summer of nineteen sixty three?
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: I did, Indeed I did. I did visit the house
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: in the thirteen hundred block of Dauphine. It was on
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: the left handed side going up uptown, and Emilio Santana
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: was there, and Thursday ur Kasha Smith was not there.
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: Do you recall telling Lynn luisl when you were first
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: brought down here from Angola, that Sergio Kocha was present
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: at the meeting?
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: Nope, you don't recall that. I just want to consult
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: to my attorney.
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: And at this point they like, this is long, Rob,
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: but they did take a break and let him consult
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: your attorney.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: So, but just to give your contact, It's about fucking
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: time I get to talk to my attorney.
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: You just consulted your attorney, didn't you. Miguel, you did
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: testify that you attended a meeting in nineteen sixty three
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: with Amelio on Delphine? Is that right?
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: I do not know whether it was in nineteen and
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: sixty three or nineteen and sixty four.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: How did you get there?
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: We drove? Who drove in my car?
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: What kind of car? Did you have?
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: A book? A fifty one book?
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: What color.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: Black? Of course?
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: Who went with you besides Emilio?
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Myself and Emilio.
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: Did tell you the purpose of going.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: When I made this statement, there was a man living
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: in the house with another woman. A Mexican woman. His
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: name was a Sergio. I remember that much. I noticed
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: he had kind of greenish looking eyes, about five foot
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: eleven inches, athletic looking type, high cheekbones, typical Spanish mixed
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: with a little Indian. You know. He was with a
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Mexican woman. Her name was Maria. There was another couple
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: lived in the house at the time that I At
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: the time I say this, I was so nervous. I
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: did not remember during the course his name.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: Why did you first meet Amelio Santana?
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: It wasn't the latter part of a sixty three or
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: sixty four. I am confused about the date. I was
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: using many narcotics.
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: Then, how did you happen to meet Amelio santa.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: It is such a long time ago. I think it
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: was in a place on Decatur Street. I think the
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Copo Cabana bar, a bar frequented by the Spanish people's
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: and I would go there once in a while.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: Did you tell you why he was in town?
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: No, he did not.
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: Did you become close friends after that?
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Well, I would say more than like a like associates,
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: not not really friends, but not close associates more or less,
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: you know, acquaintances.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: All right, that was fun and that was not. That
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: was not.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: That was a big word for me.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: Sorry, It's okay, Miguel, Miguel Roberto.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: I consulted with my attorney now, Joe, I go to
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: you later, sir.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: And by the way, I only clipped a couple of
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: part of parts of that, but he said I wish
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: to consult my attorney about like fifty more times. So
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: this is an undated CIA document about Emilio Santana and
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: subject is probably identifiable with Emilio Santana Galindo, who was
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: recruited by jam Wave in December nineteen sixty. So now
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: we're not at nineteen sixty two, Rob, We're back to
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty now. He was kind of going back and
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: forth into Cuba as a guide and why they would
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: lie about this, I don't know. As a guide for
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: an infiltration team. Santana was paid a monthly salary under
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: provisions of his MOC until he was terminated on October fifteen,
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: sixty three. Again kind of right. When Oswalt gets a
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: job at the TSBT, not far Yes, when the ratline
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: developed by the team, the rat Lion, that's an interesting
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: term for exiltration. Yeah, yeah, which of course was also
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: used Operation paper Clip, became inoperable due to occupation of
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: the target area by Soviet technicians. Another compelling reason for
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: Santana's termination stemmed from his untruthful reporting concerning certain aspects
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: of the team's operations. So dude's a shady character. An
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: attempt to establish positive identification, Jmwave obtained a report from
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: the Dade County Miami Sheriff's office that an Emilia Santana
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: born July sixth, nineteen sixty three, so yeah, it would
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: have been twenty seven, was declared a fugitive from Louisiana
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: and federal warrant FBI sheet blah blah blah, two counts
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: of burglary. So he's a and he was he did
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: have a crypt his crip was a m Lepton and
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: or it was part of no he was am Lepton program,
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: run jointly by Ted Shackley's Miami station known as Jamwave
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: and James Angleton's counter Intelligence branch, aimed at spotting refugees
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: in the Miami area who could serve as intermediaries to
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: reach it ultimately recruit persons in Cuba for counterintelligence purposes.
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: Emilia Santana am Lepton operative in nineteen sixty three. FBI
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: report says Santana was alleged to own a manliquer carcano
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: like Oswaltz and to have been in Dealey Plaza at
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: the time of the assassination on orders of the alleged conspirators.
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: Shaw Ferry Sergiocosia Smith during June nineteen sixty four listed
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: CIA as employer in a loan application for a car
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: purchase with the RIFF number Just in case, mister Joseph Baxol's,
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: isn't it this allege FBI report is not available on
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: Mary Ferrell or any known location, So.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: So you can see, folks.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you can take it down.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: Why this guy paired up with Sergio or Cassius Smith,
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: who was more of a planner, intelligent organizzed a guy
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: who didn't get his hands dirty. But this dude had
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: no qualms, zero qualms about being infiltrated into Cuba, Castro
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Cuba to xfiltrate his members of his own family, and
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: that began.
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: And others, I'm sure others.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: You know working with the CIA. This guy was an operative.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: So you pair this guy with somebody of the brains
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: with Sergio Orcassias Smith and you got a recipe for
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: disaster in Dallas.
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he was alleged to be in Dallas by US
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: during the Garson investigation. And you know you can see why.
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: And when you look at his CIA employment history, if
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: you will, very convenient that it ends right in October.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very convenient. And it's not just when Oswalk get
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: a job at the TSBD, but you have Oswald coming
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: back from Mexico City at the beginning of October to Dallas.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: But those who were paying attention to Oswald's movements could
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: definitely tell that he was wrapping things up in New Orleans.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: Marina's leaving. You know, he still doesn't have a job.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: He's telling people, including allegedly Marina, that he's going to
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Mexico City. There's other folks who alleged that they knew
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: he did file for the passport visa to go to
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: Mexico City, so that could have been known. So is
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: it just a coincidence that Oswald it's about the same
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: time as Oswald's coming back to Dallas to live. I
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: don't know. They could just watch this guy, see where
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: he gets the job, and formulate a plan from there.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Luckily them, it happened to be in Daily Plaza. Yeah,
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: in a seven story building right on the corner.
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and Rob.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: The more I dig into this case, you know, over
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: the course of years and years, you know, you hear
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: about all these famous names of possible shooters, right like
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: like like some of the people were going to get
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: into like nic Lette or Files or you know, the
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: mainstream type of names. To me, it seems like it
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: would be Emilia. Santana's not like a common Cuban external name.
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: I would bet a single like less than ten percent
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: of the people know who he was. But I feel
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: like a shooter would have been one of those types
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: in comparison to the more famous suspects, if you will.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, especially somebody that has been in Harry situations before
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: knows how to keep their cool. And you know, we
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: don't really know anything about Santana's past or you know,
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: if he lost people in the Bay of Pigs, you know,
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: ideologically he could have been of the mindset of you
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: all right, fuck fuck Kennedy, because the CIA is saying, look,
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: Kennedy told us he was gonna send their support. You know,
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: the CIA is feeling these Cuban exiles heads full of
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: full of shit and blaming every blame, blaming everything on
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: the sea on Kennedy. So it's not out of the
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: realm possibilities. Cuban exiles have a deep, deep hatred for
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: Kennedy and wouldn't hesitate to do something like this as
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: retaliation not only for themselves but also all the people
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: they know that lost loved ones in the Bay of Pigs,
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: you know, brothers, fathers, cousins, you know, for sure, for sure,
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: So it was a little prodding and you know, a
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: little maybe some promises of assistance after the fact, but
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe some assistance in planning something like Sergio
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: would have been the perfect companion, if you will, to
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: this guy, you know, figured out a plot, a plan
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: for him to pull this off, and they could keep
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: it low key, especially in Dallas, I mean, because Akasha
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: wasn't in Dallas. He was in Houston, which is close
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: enough to put together a plan to watch from afar,
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: if you will, And and and you know, planned something
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: like this, and he got away with it, you know,
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: and not a lot of people really would have been
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: in the know about it, except for who they may
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: have told, which might not have been a lot of
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: people because it wasn't really a big Quban exile present
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: in Dallas, not as big as New Orleans or anything
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: like that. But you know, the further you get away
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: from Cuba, the less Cuban exiles you have, you know.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: But it's certainly under the realm of possibility for me
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: for sure. All Right? Is that wrap up, Emilio? All right?
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: So let's get into a little bit about Richard kin
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: shall we. Yeah, aka Richard Sculsette. He was a corrupt
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: Chicago police officer and close associate of Sam gen Kanna.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: Why is he on a podcast talking about the jfk statastination? Well,
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you. According to a biography of Sam gen
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: Connor written by his family, g and Conna allegedly told
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: his younger brother that it was Richard Cain and Charles Nicoletty,
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: not Lee Harvey Oswald, who were in the school book
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: depository on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. According to
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: Michael Caine, Richard Kaine's brother, there was no evidence to
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: support the rumors that his half brother was directly involved
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: in the assassination of John F. Kennedy as a gunman
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: allegedly Richard Cain was at the Criminal Courts Building at
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: twenty six in California Streets in Chicago, Illinois, the day
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: of the Kennedy assassination per a John J. Flood, who
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: worked with Richard Kine. According to historian Lamar Waldron in
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: his book The Hidden History of the Jafk Assassination, published
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: in twenty thirteen, Richard Kine did not shoot the president,
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: but acted as an informant on behalf of mobster Johnny Rosselli,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: where the Chicago Plot assassination attempt planned for November the second,
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty three. So here's where things get. The little
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: weird Joe there are. And I have the book here, folks.
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: It's called The Tangles Web by Michael Caine, The Life
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: and Death of Richard Kane, Chicago Cop and Hitman. And
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: that is him right there in the glasses right.
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: Michael Caine was his half brother. They shared a father.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: Richard Kin was seventeen years older than Michael Kane, so
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: Michael Caine never really knew his brother because by the
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: time that he was old enough to comprehend life, Michael
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Cain or Richard Cain, had done left the family nest
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: and moved on with his own life. He saw him
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: every once in a while, but never really knew him.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: Knew him, Okay, So don't get that twisted. But so
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: a little bit about Richard Caine. He was Irish and
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: Italian American raised in Chicago and Michigan. He joined the
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: Army at age seventeen and was stationed in the United
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: States Virgin Islands from forty seven to fifty. Again, not
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: a bad gig if you can get it right. I mean,
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: where else would you rather be stationed in nineteen forty
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: seven other than the Virgin Islands? Sure, I mean that's
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: a pretty sweet gig. Yeah, chilling on the beach. While there,
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: he became fluent in Espanol.
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: Joe, Okay, makes sense.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: Before going back to Chicago in fifty one, Cain worked
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: as an investigator at the Burns Detective Agency in Dallas, Texas.
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: Another private investigator in our street.
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: This miw you, I mean, this whole Richard Kine thing
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: is fucking weird, So pay attention. Despite his grandfather having
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: been a prominent sewer contractor, Hello.
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: That's interesting.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: Who was killed by the Chicago mob in Little Italy
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: in nineteen twenty eight, Cain would later become a close
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: associate of Sam g and Conna. While Cain worked as
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: an officer in the Chicago Police Department during the mid fifties,
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: he served as a bag man between corrupt police officials
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: and the mob. Okay. Taking a leave of absence from
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: the Chicago Police Department in nineteen sixty, Cain took a
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: temporary assignment as part of the investigation team assembled by
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: Assistant US Attorney Richard Ogilvie to prosecute then Outfit Boss
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: Anthony Accardo. Joe who you may have heard of.
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: Yes, we covered him on our episode of Carline. What
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: was that double b again?
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Trusy Brown, god dressing sir. Okay, So we
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: were Tony Accardo, who we know was the big the
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: big swinging dick in Chicago, right. Yes, yes, they're trying
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: to prosecute then Outfit Boss Anthony Ricardo, and media interviews
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: came alluded to having been deported from Mexico in nineteen
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: sixty one following an arrest for taking part in unauthorized
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: CIA operations to train Cubans for the Bay of Pigs invasion.
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: So this guy has got tentacles or testicles, if you will,
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: and all the various locations important to this case. I
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: mean we're talking Dallas, Mexico City, Chicago.
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, and by the way, training Cuban exiles for the
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: CIA while being a corrupt cop and friend to the mob,
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: the Chicago mob. That's not it's crazy. After his death,
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: Washington's sources confirmed off the record that these claims were true.
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: He also claimed to have worked with the US State
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: Department tracing the flow of American money into communist hands.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: Came returned to Chicago in early nineteen sixty two to
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: support Ogilvy in his campaign to be the Cook County Sheriff.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: He was elected Cook County Sheriff, so then Sheriff Ogilvy
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: hired Kin as chief investigator of the Cook County Sheriff's office,
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: and during this time, Kane led the investigation that resulted
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: in a notorious fun lounge police raid. In nineteen sixty four,
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: Kine was fired for lying to a grand jury regarding
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: his involvement in a scheme to resell confiscated drugs back
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: to known criminals. So he's going in the evidence room
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: and grabbing big piles of fucking heroin and cocaine and
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: reselling it back to his mafia contacts. Oh yeah. He
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: was subsequent subsequently convicted of poejery and served six months
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: in prison, concurrent with a four year sentence from nineteen
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: sixty eight for being an accessory to bank robbery. Cain
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: was finally parolled in nineteen seventy one. After his parole,
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: Caine made frequent trips to and from Mexico as Sam
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: g and Conna's courier and financial advisor. Cain became a
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: key figure in g and Conna's money skimming from casinos
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: in Central America and Iran. What yeah, yeah, Apparently Giancanna
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: had a casino in Iran during this time, conspiring to
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: control of the city's illegal gambling operations. He began working
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: as an FBI in format now for agent William Romer,
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: allegedly muscling out his rivals by dropping a dime on
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: them to federal authorities. So he's eliminating his competition by
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: ratting out his competition to the FBI and stepping in
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: and taking over their game. So you can see where
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: we're going here. Not the most popular person in Chicago
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: at this point, Okay. On December twentieth, nineteen and seventy three,
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: Richard Kin was killed by masked gunmen in Roses Sandwich
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: shop in Chicago. Witnesses reported that no more than fifteen
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: minutes before the attack, Cain had been talking with four
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: other men who were not present when the gunman actually arrived.
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: Two of these four men were reported to have left
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: using a back door. At the time of the gunman's arrival.
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: Cain was seen talking to an unidentified woman in black joe.
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: The gunman carried a shot a shoddy a pistol, and
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: a two way radio that they used to communicate with
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: an outside lookout. They ordered the shop staff and patrons,
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: including Cain, against the wall, but did not speak directly
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: to Cain. They asked several of them if they had
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: any money, and asked who's got the package. Caine was approached,
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: pulled slightly away from the wall, and shot directly in
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: the head with the shotgun. As he fell, the second
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: gunman also shot him in the head. Cane's assailants reportedly
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: removed an item from one of his pockets before fleeing.
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: The unidentified woman left at the same time as the gunman.
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: As if the shot to the head with the shotgun
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: wasn't enough.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, after the shot to the head of the shotgun
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: with a pistol wasn't enough, right. Uh So again, where
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: are we here at this time?
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: Uh?
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: During the early seventies, Cain became involved in a burglar
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: burglary ring masterminded by outfit capo Marshall Kaifano. It has
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: been speculated that Kaifano had learned of Caine's informant status
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: and received permission from Toniocardo to murder Kin. Kaifano was
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: reported to have been in Roses sandwich shop only two
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: hours before Cain's murder. After Caine's death, the Chicago Tribune
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: reported to Cain had once bugged Kaifano's bedroom for the FBI.
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: Cain was also reported to have been arguing violently with
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: senior outfit figure Gus Alex before Caine's death over Caine's
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: plans to organize a twelve day gambling cruise for Chicago
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: high rollers off the Florida coast. So that's kind of
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: the life that he lived, right, lived by the sword,
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: you die by the sword. Yep. So what do we
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: actually have document wise about this mofo Richard Cain? Well,
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: we got a co couple things This is from nineteen
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: and sixty seven October. And I believe this is a
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: CIA document.
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I see, did I see? Says there Security first
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: s rss RS.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So what this is about is a memorandum this
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: June fifth, sixty seven memorandum in close copies of several
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: sixty three to sixty four documents from the Chicago Field
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: Offices file on Kine. It appears DCS is cleaning out
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: their files ari E. Lee Harvey Oswald. Okay, let me
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: show that to you again bottom of the first paragraph.
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: It appears DCS is cleaning out their files on Lee
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: Harvey Oswald. And again this is a subject matter about
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: Richard Kane. Subject, it is obvious, has been a source
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: of information regarding an alleged discussion of the assassination of
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: President Kennedy at a secret meeting of the Fair Play
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: for Cuba Committee held in Chicago in February of nineteen
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: sixty three. So apparently they had information that Richard Kane
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: was at a Fair Play for Cuba Committee meeting in
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: Chicago in nineteen sixty three. Around got around bro. He
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: was also the source of information regarding the alleged attempt
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: recruitment into the Communist Party of Young Cubans in the
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: Chicago area by one Guillermo Escobar, who, according to the
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: Chicago Office, was one of horse Speeds leads obtained from
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: Ralph Perez. I don't know what all that means, but
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: blah blah blah, blah blah. Caine was in fact on
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: a two months leave sickly from the Cook County Sheriff's
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: office at this time, as he was said to be,
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: or was on a political undercover assignment when Cohen inferred,
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: involved tapping the telephones of gubernatorial candidate Charles Percy and
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: other political figures. So again, this Richard Kaine Due Joe
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: was a professional type level fucking wire tapper. Okay, we'll
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: get more into that in a second. During a review
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: of Kine's security file, I noted a message regarding him
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: from Mexico City, April twenty fifth, nineteen sixty two, which
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: mentioned a Willard Andrews, a reputable American businessman in Mexico
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: who obviously had been had contact of some kind with Kine,
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: as well as with a CIA representative in Mexico City,
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: to whom Andrews had commented that Kine claims to have
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: been with the OSS during World War II. A copy
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: of this memorandum is attached. In answer to this message,
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: requested traces on Cain headquarters and furnishing limited information obtained.
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: A regarding to him advised that neither his claimed employment
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: by OSS nor a claim he made to have worked
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: with Task Force W Hello Bill Harvey could be substantiated.
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: The station was advised that he did have a legitimate
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: detective lab in Chicago. The first time Caine came to
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: the attention of the Security Office was when the Mexico
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: station requested traces on him. There requests them from an
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: unannounced visit he made to the station, during which he
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: stated that he had an investigative agency in Mexico with
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: branches in Chicago and LA. Now, if you're not in
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: the know, Joe, how the fuck are you going to
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: know where the Mexico City Station is at in Mexico?
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: And do you have balls enough to go up and
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: start knocking on the fucking door.
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't think so.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't see, you know, telling them all about
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: what all you can do and hoping they hire you
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: to do something. Man takes Cajone's Yeah, But again, how
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: do you know where the Mexico City station is. If
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: you're not connected to some point to somebody who would.
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: Know, right, I mean, you would know where the embassy
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: would be in theory, right yeah, yeah.
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: But not the station headquarters. You know what I'm saying.
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He also stated that his agency in Mexico was
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: for the purpose of training Mexican government agents and police methods,
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: investigative techniques, and the use of lie detectors, and it
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: added that he was investigating communism in a certain unnamed
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: Central American country. In June of sixty two, the Mexico
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: Station advised that Kane was being deported by the Mexican
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: Ministry of Gobinacion for these violations. Joe, he was carrying
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: a loaded revolver and brass knuckle.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: Number two, he was impersonating a Mexican government official he
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: had id as an investigator for the Mexican Treasury Office.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: Number three, he was violating his tour.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: Can I stop you? How do you even know what
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: that identification would look like to make a fake one
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: of it?
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: Right? And you're going to walk around Mexico impersonating a
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: government official carrying a loaded revolver and brass knuckles in
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: your pocket. Apparently that violated his tourists permit by working
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: at his detective office and at the Mexican Treasury. I
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: mean it gets it's crazier and crazier. Subject was allegedly
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: of interest to the DCS in September of sixty three.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: Note these dates, folks, when an ad hoc clearance was
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: requested to permit his being asked to respect on to
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: general requirements regarding his knowledge of certain Cuban refugees and
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: their potential for foreign positive intelligence. On ten September nineteen
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: sixty three, the DCS was sent a memorandum which furnished
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: much of the above information on King.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: Domestic contact service.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, sir, Yeah, They wanted to know what he
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: knew about certain Cuban refugees and their potential for foreign
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: positive intelligence in September of sixty three. On May twenty second,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty seven, the Director of Security indicated that he'd
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: received information from the FBI which ties subject to the
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: mafia in Chicago. The DCS was also advised that if
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: they weren't contact with him, it was suggested that they
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: break it off. On twenty five May sixty seven, the
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: DCS advised that there had been no contact with Kaine
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: since nineteen sixty three interesting year, and furnished copies of
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: eight reports for which subject had been the source of information.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: These had to do with anti castro keeping activities, procurement
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: of arms, et cetera. On May twenty nine, sixty seven,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: Security advised the DCS that there is a current FBI
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: investigative interest in the subject and recommend that there'd be
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: no further contact with him at this time. So this
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: is the CIA getting information from the FBI that the
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: FBI is saying, Look, we're looking into this motherfucker. He's
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: dirty as hell and best you don't have any of
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: your people around him for the first evil future.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: But can I stop you there? But he was an
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: FBI informant by then or after.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: After Okay, not yet, Okay, I see after he gets
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: busted or it's about the same time he probably becomes
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: an FBI format they try to bust his ass, right, Yeah,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: maybe for some reduced charges, if you.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: Will, Joe, or some cooperation.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: September one, nineteen sixty seven copy of Life magazine contains
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: an article entitled Brazen Empire of Organized Crime, in which
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: it has stated that Sammy g and Coana, the head
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: of the Chicago Coast and Ostra, is still running things
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: by remote control from a hide out in Mexico, where
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: he poses as Richard Sculls or Ricardo Scullstti. The real Skullzetti,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: g and Conna's erstwhile chauffeur and courier is more familiar
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: to chicagoan's as Richard Kine, a well known former Chicago
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: policeman and more recently private investigator. So I guess gen
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: Kanna trusted this guy so much he was using Richard
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: Kaine's alias the real because he says, the real Richard Scalzetti,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: gen Conna's erstwhile chauffeur and courier was known as Richard Kaine.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: And they published this shit in September of nineteen sixty
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: seven in Life Magazine says there is a copy of
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: the above referred to September article of Life Magazine in
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: which Kane has described as the erstwhile chauffeur in Courier.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: The second of these articles makes reference to the alleged
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: friendly contacts of Jim Garrison of the Oswald case with
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: henchmen of the coastin Ustra in the Louisiana area. Hello,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: Carlos Morcello, here's where things get weird. And this is
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: kind of from Lamar Waldron's standpoint. This is he connects
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: some dots that maybe you can connect, maybe you can't. Well,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: let's you decide. This is from December eleventh, nineteen sixty seven.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: The subject is and we're still with CIA documents. The
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: subject is a New York Times article of December sixty
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: seven entitled plot on Kennedy in Chicago told, and It's saying.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: The attached to article reports that Abraham Bolden, a former
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: Secret Service agent who is now a prisoner at Federal
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: Medical Center in Springfield, Missouri, told three lawyers that quote
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: the agency had known before President Kennedy's assassination that an
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: attempt to kill him had been planned. The three lawyers
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: were identified as Mark Lane, Richard Burns, and John Hosmer,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: a former judge and prosecutor from Marshfield, Missouri, on which
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: we have no further information. Everybody knows who Mark Lane is.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: I assume did you know he was Abram Boulder's lawyer?
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: I did not know that.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: The lawyers said that their information had come from two
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: days of talks with Bolden, who was sentenced in Chicago
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: two years ago to six years in prison for having
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: conspired to sell official information in a counterfeiting case. Bolden's
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: attorney claimed that Bolden had told him that he had
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: been sent to prison after having been refused permission to
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: tell the Warrant Commission about his alleged information. There is
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: no security file on Bolden, but references to three newspaper
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: articles in May sixty four were traced and revealed the
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: following information. Abram Bolden, aged twenty nine, in nineteen sixty four,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: the first Negro assigned to the Secret Service detail guarding
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: the President, was charged with trying to sell a file
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: to a man indicted for counterfeiting. Bolden said he was
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: framed because he intended to reveal details of heavy drinking
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: and general laxity among Secret Service agents assigned to President Kennedy.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: Bolden said he was going to tell his story to
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: the Warren Commission. The US attorney Edward Hanrahan observed that
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: the accuracy of Bolden's charges should be judged by the
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: fact that the man who made them was silent from
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty one until after he was arrested. Let's see Apparently,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: it was reported in the same article that one of
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: Bolden's attorneys said he would direct his client not to
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: testify if subpoena before the Warren Commission in Washington, and
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: added that Bolden accepted this advice. This refusal was unexpected
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: and contradicted Bolden's statement at the time of his arrest.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: So what they're saying here Bolden's telling one story that says, well,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: they wouldn't let me testify the Warren Commission, But in
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: actuality Bolden refused to tell to testify before the Warren
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: Commission and tell them anything. So why does this matter
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: about Richard kan Where's that by Richard Kane? Right? A
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: memorandum Joe dated in November twenty ninth, nineteen sixty three,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: in the file of one Richard Kane, concerning an interview
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: he had with the representative of the agency's Chicago contact office,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: contained the following unevaluated information. Kine, at that time was
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: employed by the Cook County Sheriff's Office and said that
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: the Cook County Sheriff's Office received information that early in
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: sixty three, the Chacoma or the Chickam shy Cooms whatever
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: that means, Shy Comms took over operations in the US
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. In February sixty three,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: a secret meeting of the committee was held at the
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: nine oh seven South Spaulding, Chicago, under the direction of
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: Richard c Riley, secretary of the Chicago chapter of the
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: Fair Play for Cuba Committee. At this meeting, the assassination
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: of the President of the US was discussed. An FBI
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: report of May twenty six, nineteen sixty concerned a trip
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: by Richard c Riley and his wife to Havana in April.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: Caine then added the information that Lee Oswald purchased the
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: rifle that was using the assassination of President Kennedy in
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: March of sixty three. Oh, by the way, where's Cleines located, Joe.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: That would be Chicago, HM clin Sporting does Yeah.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah yeah. Cain said that the Cook County Sheriff's
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: office had not established that Oswald was at the February meeting. However,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: they had strong suspicions that Oswald was in Chicago that
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: February of sixty three, which is doubtful, but who the
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: fuck knows, right.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you can always take a bus.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, In theory, David very line up there. All certain
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: things are happening in the cockpit, hey now. Cain said
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: that there was animosity between Sheriff Ogilvy and the FBI,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: and that Ogilvy had directed Kane to conduct an investigation
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: into the matter himself and cut out the FBI. Cain
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: inferred in the interview that if his investigation established anything definite,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: the Cook County Sheriff's office would probably probably inform the FBI,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: but not definitely, So that's a little interesting. These are
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: all CIA files, folks. Richard Kine, Chicago Private Dick first
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: became our first became of agency interest when he visited
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: Mexico City Station unannounced in April sixty two. He claimed
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: to have been employed by the OSS in nineteen forty
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: three and by the Fronte Revolutionaryo Democratico, an agency sponsored
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: Cuban exile organization, in nineteen sixty one. These claims cannot
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: be substantiated by agency records. He told the station he
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: added investigative agency in Chicago with branches in Mexico for
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: the purpose of police training. Blah blah blah blah blah.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: Kane also said he was investigating communism in Central America.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: No clearance was requested or granted by the Western Hemisphere
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: Division at this time for Kane's use. Subsequently, in June
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: of sixty two, information was received that Kane was deported
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: by Mexican authorities for him. Yeah, we talked about this
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: loaded gun, brass knuckles, impersonating a government official, and blah blah,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: blah blah. September of sixty three, Joe, a request for
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: contact clearance was received from the agency's Chicago Field office
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: and the above information was furnished for consideration in determining
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: the extent and level of Kane's use. In addition to
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: the interview detailed above, Kane also furnished eight reports concerning
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: exile Cuban active in the Chicago area. So again we're
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: September of sixty three. The CIA has operational interest in
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: Richard Kane. That's that's sus It is sus.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: The whole reason I mentioned the Abraham Bolden deal right,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: is because Lamar Waldron seems to be under the impression
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: that Richard Kine was the guy that set up Abraham
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: Bolden to put his ass in jail. He was the
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: alleged he was posing as a counterfeitter, and he's the
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: one that's set up Bolden. I that's Lamar Waldron speaking.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's out of the realms of possibility
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: based on the whole resume you just discussed about him.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so Bolden nor his attorney Mark Lane does not
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: indicate that CIA had information in this regard. But it
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: is of interest to note that an unsavory character known
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: as Richard Kin, who was in touch with the agency's
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: contact office in Chicago in sixty three, passed information of
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: a similar import to the agency's Chicago contact office. Cain,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: at that time was employed by the Cook County Sheriff's Office.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 5: Let's see.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: Excuse me. So we move over from Lamar Waldron accusations
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: in Richard Kane to some interesting things that Bill Simpitz
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: seems to think about Richard Kane. Oh interesting, Yeah, this
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: comes from his State secret the conclusion part of it.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: And we're talking first about a guy named Clark Simmons
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: David Morales. David Sanchez Morales had a close relationship with
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 3: Clark Simmons, who served as c slash Western Hemisphere slash
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: four slash CI chief of Western Hemisphere count Intelligence, Cuba
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty one and Chief Investigations and Operational Support
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: for the Cuban Division sas and sixty five. Simmons was
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: intimately familiar with the duties of various AMOT teams in
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: Miami during September of sixty three. There's that date again.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: Sas iOS was in the thick of the amtrunk operation
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: as well as trying to get as Q's colleague am
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: Leo Three's wife out of Cuba. I think it is
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: crucial to learn much more about Simmons and specifically everything
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 3: we can about the sas iOS. If you're conducting an assassination,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: operational support is exactly what you need. Simmons had to
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 3: know how to get it done. Sasios knew a lot
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: about Richard Kane, the crooked cop in Chicago who worked
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 3: with Sam g and Conna and Johnny Roselli. The CIA's
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 3: Office of Security chief was so nervous about Cain in
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty seven that he lied and said that the
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: agency had never employed or utilized him. While the Chicago
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: Field office referred to Cain in nineteen sixty one as
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 3: quote our private eye. During nineteen sixty two, Kane also
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: claimed to work for Gyrose Bill Harvey's Task Force w
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: although Witten's branch reported that Kine's claim could not be substantiated.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: In October of sixty three, the Office of Security disapproved
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: any use of Kin as a source, as it repeated
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: the finding of no substantiation. I concluded that Kin was
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: an inside source for Bill Harvey himself. Caine's skills with
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: wire taps, as well as his myriad connections with the
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: Chicago criminal underground, were just what Harvey and ROSSELLI needed,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: And the words of Peter Dale Scott quote a CIA
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: component willing to collaborate with g and Conna's men in
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 3: assassination would certainly have no problem in recruiting gian Conna's
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: electronics expert for a wire tap operation. Yeah ding ding Ding.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: Cain had a reason to be mad at Mexico City
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: Station Chief Win Scott. Cain had been deported from Mexico
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: in June of sixty two based on a tip to
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: Interior Minister Gustavo Diaz that Caine was investigating Mexican citizens.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: This tip came to Diaz after Caine visited Scott at
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: the Mexico City Station looking for work and telling him
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: how he was training Mexican government agents in investigative techniques.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: Just one of Kane's classes alone included twenty three students
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: approved by the Federal Police. The federales described the participants
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: as quote representing every law enforcement agency in Mexico, from
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: the equivalent of the FBI down to local police di has.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: His tip led to the discovery that Caine was impersonating
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: a Treasury agent, probably a DFS officer, while he was
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: working at the Treasury Department in Mexico and conducting these trainings.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: Caine spoke Spanish, had a Mexican wife, and enjoyed living
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: in Mexico much of the time. He had wire tapped
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 3: Joe the Czech Embassy in.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 4: Mexico a little die prefix.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what are the odds of that? Oh, it's pretty
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: far crazy, yeah, says The odds are good that Caine
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: trained one or more of the very DFS and Mexican
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: Army officers that worked inside the Intercept Center in Mexico City.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: A connection with any of the officers at the Intercept
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: Center would have been an ideal way for somebody like
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: Harvey or Morales to introduce false information about Oswald within
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: the Insecure Lee Lee l I Envoy wiretaps system. Cain's
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: efforts to wiretap the county building on behalf of the
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: Sheriff's office was a staple in the local Chicago news.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: Stanley Figelac pseudonym Horace Goley of the Special Affair Staff
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: specifically sought out Kane for a meeting about a month
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: before the Oswald visit to Mexico Come on down. Days later,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 3: Staff d took a long look at Kane, and so
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: did John Tilton during the midst of his reports on
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: the Chicago Fair Play for Cuba committee. Kane was closely
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: in touch with Juan Salvat. Maybe you've heard of him,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: Joe Yes, the Miami based DRE Big Swinging Dick. Although
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: the Miami based DRI is best known for being sponsored
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 3: by the Psychological Warfare chief George Joannides, Salvat reported that
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 3: his group was secretly being sponsored by quote the Pentagon,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: which is in competition with the CIA. Okayig Act told
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: Cain to get away from the DRE. You get away
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: from them.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it seems like they were competing again.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: This is Stanley Figilac from the Special Affairs Staff telling
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: Cain to stay away from the dre.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 4: Okay, seems like some inter agency drama going on there.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some fukery here. Bro Allegedly an ex Army
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: intelligence officer. We know Kin helped out the CIA during
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: the early sixties as an informant. Cain had gone to
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: Cuba to assassinate Castro in nineteen sixty. I mean, this
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: motherfucker's everywhere doing everything all at once. It's crazy. He
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: barely escaped with his life, obviously not killing Castro. Tilton
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: learned about Kin's work just days before starting his own
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: anti FPCC program. Both Simmons and Kin had a history
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: of investigating the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. We we
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: don't know yet is whether Kin worked with Simmons or
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: Tilton officially. We do know that Simmons work with CIA
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 3: security staff official Joseph Langan. In the outrageous attempt to
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: cover up the American origin of the planes that conducted
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: a surprise attack on Castro's planes right before the Bay
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 3: of Pigs, Ambassador Ambassador Adelaie Stevenson publicly claimed that this
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: surprise attack was the work of internal Cuban defectors and
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: was furious to find out that he had been lied
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: to by his own people. Right, excuse me, God, damn uh,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: let's see ernest Ignatio Aragon. Okay, this dude uh had
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 3: a lot of inside knowledge and it was part of
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: Angleson's ci staff. But after the assassination, Aragon wrote one
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: of the first memos about the violently anti Kennedy Manual
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 3: Rodriguez Querbario. Rodriguez was five foot nine and identified as
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 3: Oswald during one of his visits to Sulfur, Oklahoma. Rodriguez
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: deserved then and deserves now much closer scrutiny as a
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: possible Oswald double. Interesting. Interesting given simmons attempt to hide
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: the American origin of the planes at the Bay of Pigs, which,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: if true, was an act of treason. How could Simmons
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: be trusted with the practices of the Secret Service. The
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: internal procedures of the Secret Service are among the crown
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: jewels of the United States. If you can't protect your leaders,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 3: you can't protect anything. So this cane dude is all
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: over the freaking place.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 4: Man, it's crazy. He's the forest gump of I don't
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 4: know what.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: So I believe The last document I have here is
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 3: from nineteen seventy four, and it is a CIA document, okay,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: concerning Salvator G and Conna and Richard Kin. Now, of
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: course by this time Cain is dead, okay, and they're
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 3: hauling mister Salvator G and Kanna, you know, to Washington.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: Had to about this.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 4: Time either church church or pipe committee or something.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, things are not going well for the mafia at
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 3: this time, that's for sure. It says a routine name
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 3: check was conducted on Salvator Chakna with negative results because
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 3: was his name Salvator like his real name?
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 4: Maybe I don't know.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: I don't I look that up. Well, I got through here,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 3: because obviously if his name wasn't really Salvator G and Conna,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 3: then of course you're gonna get negative results, okay, when
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 3: you're looking on a routine name check. Because I can't
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 3: believe for a second that as much shit that was
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 3: going on with Sam G and Conna as CIA back
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: in the sixties, that they had nothing on this motherfucker.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 4: It was his birth name was Salvator, it.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: Was okay, but maybe they didn't call him Salvator when
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 3: dealing with him later, who knows. Anyway, we were advised
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: that any inquiries concerning this matter should be made to
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: a mister Scott Breckinridge, Deputy Inspector General Western Hemisphere. COG.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: Touch base with mister Breckinridge, who said that he had
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 3: received a copy of the referenced article. We have developed
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 3: the following information on Richard Kain. He dropped out of
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 3: the first year of high school in nineteen forty seven
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: and listed in the US Army, where he served until
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: nineteen fifty. Following his army service, he was associated with
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: investigative enterprises in Miami and Chicago. In fifty six, he
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 3: entered the Chicago Police Department Vice Squad, where he remained
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 3: until sixty Concurrent with that employment, he operated the Accurate Laboratories,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: a private investigative business. Listed below is a chronology of
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: CIA contacts with Kin. Followed nineteen sixty, he initiated contact
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: with the d CD Chicago Field Office and voluntarily provided
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 3: information on the activities of Cuban exile groups in the
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: Chicago area. That is, as early as the fall of
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty. June sixty one, Cain contacted mister Lowman of
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: the Chicago Field Office to report an approach made to
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 3: him by mister Kruponsky. Who reportedly was negotiating with the
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 3: President of Panama to investigate communism in Panama. Cain was
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: to assist Kruponsky in this endeavor. Summer sixty one, Kine
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: was met in Mexico by a CIA staffer identity unknown,
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: Purpose unknown.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 4: Did you say did Aragua?
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: Panama?
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 4: Panama?
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: Panama? October sixty one, Cain wrote to mister Loman from Panama.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 3: He reported on his findings of attitudes towards the US
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 3: in certain Central American countries and offered his services to
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: the agency. April sixty two, Kine made an unannounced visit
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 3: to agency representatives at the Mexico City Station and informed
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: then blah blah, yeah, we went, We've been through that.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: Junior sixty two came as deported from Mexico. Been through that.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: August nineteenth, nineteen sixty three, Cain was met at the
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: Lake Shore Drive Athletic Club and Adolph's Club in Chicago
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: by Western Hemisphere Division staff officer redacted and the chief
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: of the Chicago DCD office. The contact report states that
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 3: in the distant future, Cain would like to work overseas
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: with the CIA. It was pointed out to Kane that
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 3: his current cooperation with the CIA might be of benefit
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 3: to him should he apply for employment with the CIA
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 3: in the future. At this time, Cain worked for the
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: Cook County Sheriff's Office. Blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: Twenty sixth and thirtieth August nineteen sixty three, information from
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 3: Cain to the DCD Chicago office was passed to the
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 3: Cuba desk at Headquarters information concerning reported Miro Cord his
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 3: interest in purchasing arms from some place in Chicago. September eleventh,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty three. Redacted requested a PCSACSA on Cain, but
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 3: there is no indication that it was ever done. Twelve
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 3: September sixty three, Cain reported to the Chicago Field office
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 3: information on persons claiming to be reps of the DRE
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: who purchased arms for the DRE. Cain planned another meeting
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 3: with the alleged DRE reps. Redacted via DCD Washington and
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: DCD Chicago got word to Cain to quote, get the
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 3: hell out of the picture as soon as possible, and
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 3: to make no commitments. These try to fuck up an
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 3: ongoing cIAP. Wow.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 5: The sky's all over the place.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: Bro April seventy two, came returned to Chicago from Mexico City,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 3: then disappeared May one, seventy two, saying he was going
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 3: to Latin America. Caine allegedly was involved in illegal international
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 3: arms deals on various occasions, stating that he worked for
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 3: the CIA. May sixteen, seventy two, an FBI agent in
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 3: Mexico asked redacted for traces on Kane. According to the FBI,
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 3: and Eastern Airlines pilot had identified Kine as the skyjacker
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 3: who forced him to fly to hon Duras on five
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 3: May nineteen seventy two.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 4: Bro, Was he dB Cooper?
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 3: That's the last point I was getting to. Apparently was
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 3: dB Cooper before D B. Cooper was dB Cooper? But
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 3: same year, just in May, not November? Right, interesting, But
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 3: apparently he did hijack Eastern Airlines plane and got away
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: with it. Yeahdas, I mean you gotta get to Panama somehow.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 4: Right fu. Yeah? And of course the Eastern Airlines connection
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 4: with David Ferry is extremely interesting, yes, for those that
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 4: haven't put that together.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 3: So there is a lot to unpack with one Richard Kane.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 3: Are the allegations of Sam g and Kanna to be
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 3: believed about him and Nicoletti shooting the president from the
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 3: school book depository. There are people out there who think
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: that in order to sell a book, you gotta finger
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 3: some people, you gotta name some names. And who better
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 3: than two guys who were already dead by that point,
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: who could not defend themselves any longer. You got to
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: remember this dude came was gen Conna's right hand man
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: for a little while, all right, So who better? Right?
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 3: Who better? Who better? Joe?
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, as was nicol Letty. As we'll get into.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: Two dead scaffooses that you knew real well, who you
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 3: knew probably wouldn't mind being accused of killing the president, right,
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 3: not if they were dead, they wouldn't mind. If you
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 3: want to know more about the Richard Kaine story, the
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 3: book is called The Tangled Webb by Michael Caine, his
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: step brother. So very cool. I think it's only like
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 3: eleven bucks, it's not too thick, and uh yeah, does
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 3: he look anything like D. B. Cooper?
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 5: Joe? Uh?
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, if we got a full face frontal shot,
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 3: maybe yeah.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 4: With maybe a little more of a receding hairline, I
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 4: would say, and without the glasses I wouldn't say it's
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 4: like completely far off.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, could have also been the zodiacullar as well. Who mean,
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 3: who knows.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 4: Maybe we'll have to ask John about if anyone in
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 4: that community John Lennback, of course, if if anyone has
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 4: ever because you know, people in the dB Cooper community
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 4: like kind of attached to a suspect. I wonder if
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 4: anyone has with Kane. It's interesting though, it is interesting.
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 4: I don't know what parachuting history he may have or
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 4: may not have had, but.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: He was in the army.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 4: I'm just saying eighty second or one or first he
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 4: was jumping.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: Out of airplanes in the US Virgin Islands. Yeah, that's uh,
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 3: that's Richard Kane. And I'd never really looking to him before, folks,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: and I'd heard the name, I'd heard the accusations, never
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 3: really paid much attention to him. And I was like, well,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 3: holy shit, right, I came across something somewhere and I
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: was like, wait a minute, I mean taking another look
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 3: at this dude, and I was like whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 3: Started finding all these documents. I'm like, what have I
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 3: never heard of this dude before? But yeah, he's in
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 3: a lot of interesting places at interesting times.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 4: Joe, definitely. I mean, especially when we talk, especially when
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 4: we talk about like Mexico City and at the anti
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 4: fair Play for Cuba committee stuff, and you know, has
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 4: showing up at the station in Mexico City almost gives
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 4: me like Oswald vibes showing up at like Soviet embassy
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 4: right with the gun and placing him on the table.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 4: It's it's weird.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 3: Oh and apparently he was also he was also responsible
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 3: for dropping the dime about the Cubans being in Chicago,
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 3: for the note for the Chicago.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 4: Plot, right and the boldened kind of connection.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 3: Apparently he was the reason that they got arrested or
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 3: the plot got broken up. So there's all kinds of
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 3: crazy stuff with Richard Kane.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm telling.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 4: You no, thank you. I mean I really knew precious
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 4: a little about him as well. So what a I mean,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 4: just like think about it, like some police officer from
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 4: Chicago doing these South American trips and Mexico City trips.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 3: And it's working for the CIA and then the FBI
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 3: and the mafia and the mafia.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 4: It's like, you know, there was a good comment earlier.
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 4: Let me see if I can find it.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 8: Uh, sorry, there are a lot of comments professional skufuza.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 4: Hey, Timothy Ryan. I mean I I think he was
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 4: maybe more like someone for hire, like information for higher
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 4: type of thing, like some I don't want to say
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 4: rogue actor, but I mean listen, when when you're that
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 4: close to the Chicago Mob you have information to give
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 4: or sell or trade.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 3: Or drugs to steal and sell or trade.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 4: Hey, Roger, this is an awesome episode.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: Boys.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been fun so far, and we're gonna get
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 4: a little fun in a sect. But he Yeah, that's crazy.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 4: I didn't know about that. I'm gonna have to read
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 4: that book.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 3: He's considered one of the Suspicious deaths. Yeah, you know,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: along with Sam g and Connon.
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, but like you said, lived by the sword,
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 4: died by the sword type of thing.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 3: And you're double crossing so many fucking big, big place
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: dude right in waters. You shouldn't be dipping him in.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, you're gonna get it eventually.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 3: Again, who walks into the Mexico City station of the
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 3: CIA in nineteen sixty three and ask to work for him?
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's crazy, and he's got connections to William
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 3: Harvey and Johnny Rosselli Task Force. W Come on, man,
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 3: the hell.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 4: James said, could make a good Scorsese movie. Who would
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 4: play Cane?
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 3: Well, funny you mentioned that, because at the end of
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 3: this book, apparently let's see here says here. Apparently he
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 3: had a literate side. He wrote letters, he wrote short stories.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 3: He even wrote a movie treatment about the Bay of
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 3: Pigs on the strength of his personal experiences training Cuban
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 3: exiles in Chicago, Miami, Mexico, Guatemala, and some say even
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 3: in Cuba. He reportedly tried to sell it to Hollywood,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 3: bull was ultimately unsuccessful. He says, I've read and have
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 3: copies of most of the things he wrote, and they
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 3: show a sensitivity that was rarely in evidence in real life.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 3: But it does say in the book that this book
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 3: was optioned in twenty eighteen by somebody. Somebody bought the
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 3: rights to it to make a movie out of it,
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 3: but apparently never did.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 4: But interesting, Yeah, for sure, thank you for that, sir.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 4: That was that was fascinating.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 5: Man.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 3: Jum, We're welcome. Let's get into Chucky Nicoletti.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 4: Chucky Nicoletti. Wow, this is of course another Chicago mafia
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 4: Skufuza and I'm reading from my other laptop here. It
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 4: was an Italian American mobster affiliated with the Outfit, functioning
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 4: as a professional hit man during the mid twentieth century.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 4: Known within organized circles for his enforcement role, Nicoletti operated
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 4: under bosses including Sam g and Connon. Of course we've
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 4: been talking about, contributing to the outfits violent control over gambling, extortion,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 4: and labor rackets in the Chicago area. He was born
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 4: in Chicago in nineteen sixteen to Italian American immigrants Philip
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 4: Nicoletti and Grace Alessi. Why is it all the Guineas
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 4: are getting all the hate. He was assassinated on March
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 4: seventy seven, not twenty ninth, nineteen seventy seven, shot three
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 4: times in the back of the head, while seated in
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 4: his automobile in the parking lot of an Illinois restaurant.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 4: So that makes me think it was someone close who
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 4: was in the car with him. If it was from
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 4: the back, I mean I guess I could have been outside.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 3: Probably a hit.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Ironically, Rob he was killed the same day as
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 4: George de Moor and Shield.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all part of these mysterious seven.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 4: Dis Yeah, both men were due to appear before the HSCA,
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 4: where they were to be asked about their involvement in
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 4: the assassination of JFK. Let's see from the nineteen fifties onward,
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 4: Nicoletti advanced under San Giancanna, who assumed de facto control
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 4: of the outphit in nineteen fifty seven after accardo strategic
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 4: withdrawal Tony Ycardo to advoor advisory status sorry declassified FBI
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 4: informant reports consistently identify Nicolette as g and Conna's lieutenant,
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 4: responsible for executing sensitive assignments that reinforced is the boss's
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 4: authority during expansions into Las Vegas and casinos and Midwest
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 4: jurisdictions he was. His status as a trusted subordinate persisted
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 4: through Giacma's nineteen sixty six self imposed exile to Mexico
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 4: amid federal scrutiny from the Velachi hearings. Right the first
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 4: guy to turn rat essentially and electronic surveillance exposures. Let's
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 4: go down to the JFK area. So there are no
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 4: my search. There are no really primary source documents relating
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 4: Nicoletti to the JFK assassination. Almost all the documents rob
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 4: are FBI surveillance on the mob, which kind of is
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 4: to be expected. But your boy, James Files, a convicted
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 4: murderer serving a life sentence in the nineteen eighty one
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 4: killing of a businessman Fred Foreman, alleged interviews beginning in
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety four, so we're talking thirty one years later,
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 4: that he fired the fatal shot at President JFK from
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 4: the grassy Nolan Daily Plaza. Well that Files did, and
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 4: that Nicoletti participated as a shooter or coordinator in the
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 4: plot orchestrated by the Chicago outfit. Files claimed Nicolette, positioned nearby,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 4: File fired additional rounds, with the operation motivated by the
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 4: outfit's resentment towards the Kennedy administration's aggressive prosecutions led by
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 4: Attorney General Robert of Kennedy, which of course targeted mob figures,
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 4: including Sam Genkana. Proponents of these theories site Gecana's prior
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 4: collaborations with the CIA on anti Castro operations as facilitating
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 4: logistical overlaps that could enable such a hit framing, and
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 4: his retaliation for federal crackdowns that disrupted outfit gambling and
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 4: union rackets in the early nineteen sixties. These assertions lack
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 4: empirical corroboration, as no ballistic evidence from the crime scene matches, weapons,
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 4: or ammunition linked to Nicoletti or files An eyewitness and
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 4: eyewitness accounts of the Grassy Knol activity remain inconsistent and
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 4: uncoorroborated by physical traces like self shellcasings attributed to a
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 4: second shooter. Files credibility is undermined by his history of
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 4: fabricating stories for personal gain well incarcerated, including prior inconsistent
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 4: detail of course involvement in the CIA mafia collaborations. In
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 4: the early sixties, CIA initiated cover operations to assassinate Fidel Castro,
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 4: recruiting elements of organized crime syndicates to exploit their expertise
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 4: and anti Castro motivations following the nineteen fifty nine Cuban Revolution.
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 4: These efforts documented declassified records from the nineteen seventy five
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 4: Church Committee investigation involved in intermediaries like Robert Mayhew hiring
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 4: mafia figures such as Johnny Roselli, who turned enlisted Chicago
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 4: outfits boss Sam g and Kanna, and Tampa mobster Santas
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 4: Traficante for proposed methods including poison cigars, diving, contaminated diving suits,
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 4: explosive seashells, etc. So what do we really have? And
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 4: you know the interesting thing, Rob and I looked this up.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 4: Uh do you remember the podcast Rob Reiner, who was
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 4: unfortunately killed by his son last year? And uh, solid
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 4: Dad O'Brien, I believe.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 3: He's saying there's not gonna be a second season.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 4: There's not gonna be a second season. Okay, but they
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 4: did name four shooters too soon soon? Uh? And I
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 4: guess the four shooters they named Harmonio diez Garcia. And
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 4: I didn't listen to it, but I had to relook
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 4: this up. Harmonio diez Garcia, Jean Schoutree right, who we've
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 4: talked about before the course again, Charles Nicoletti, and Jack Cannon.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 5: Who worked under figures like Charles Willoughby.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 3: So, by the way, Willoughby was killed in nineteen seventy
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 3: two as well, same year as King or I'm sorry, yeah,
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 3: same year as King, No before King, try.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a little before and they say he was you know,
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 4: in the dal tax building or the county records building.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 3: And whether depository building or or.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 4: The overpass railroad area. So I found one thing, and
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 4: I believe it's an FBI document, although it didn't exactly say,
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 4: and if you could share that for me, sir, Oh shit,
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 4: So yeah, there you go, all right, and this is
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 4: I guessed a report on James Files in August ninth.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 4: Oh wow, damn, why is all these things that have
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 4: to be my birthday? Nineteen ninety three, agents asked Files
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 4: if he had driven Nicolette to places where Nicoletti met
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 4: other mobsters. Files was unable to recall any details in
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 4: that regard. Files then remarked that what he recalled any
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 4: occasion when Nicolette popped somebody while they were driving together
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 4: on Lake Shore Drive, that would be Chicago. Files refused
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 4: to furnish any details in regard to this incident. Files
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 4: recalled that he did not have telephone service at his
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 4: Melrose Park residence. Files recalled that Nicoletti usually telephonically contacted
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 4: him at the Harlow Guerrilla, where he Files had frequently
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 4: had frequented to play pinball at the time. Files were
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 4: called that he drove a yellow slash green color Sorry.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 4: Nineteen fifty five, Pontiac agents asked File to furnish his
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 4: physical description during that time. Period. Files furnished agents with
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 4: a colored photograph of a white male, so he had
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 4: the photograph with him. I guess medium build with short
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 4: black hair. Files stated that the photograph was taken of
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 4: him during the above time period. Physical observation of Files
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 4: reflects that Files as a white male five eleven tall, long,
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 4: white hair, medium build. Agents asked Files to name the
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 4: person who could verify his relationship with Nicoletti. He names
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 4: a bunch of Italians. Of course, I'm not going to
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 4: go through them because I don't know them, and I don't.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 3: Think how many of them were dead. I bet a
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 3: bunch at this point about all of them.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Uh. Files, when asked by agents, stated that he
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 4: did not know the identify individuals. Identity had the individuals
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 4: who murdered Nicoletti. Agents then made reference to the jfk assassination.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 4: Files stated that Nicolette Nicoletti told him that he got
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 4: the contract to hit Kennedy from Sam g and Kanna.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 4: Files then advised that before Kennedy was shot, Files, at
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 4: the request of Nicoletti, transported guns and hand grenades in
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 4: a car from Chicago to Dallas. Files advised that he'd
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 4: heard Nicolette and an individual he knew was Johnny Rosselli
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 4: planned the assassination of Kennedy. And again, Files had a
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 4: long time to read about this stuff in jail, so
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 4: agents asked Files if he actually saw Nicoletti shoot Kennedy.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 4: Files stated that he did not actually see Nicoletti shoot Kennedy.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 4: Files added that since Nicoletti planned the assassination and was
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 4: there by and was there by the Dalla tex building,
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 4: he knows that Nicoletti was the one who shot at Kennedy, which,
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 4: of course that statement doesn't really make sense, and it
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 4: kind of goes on and on. I'm not going to
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 4: read the rest of this because.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 3: It's kind of James Files horseshit.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean he's an interesting character, definitely. You know,
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 4: of course he was named and the Rob Reiner thing
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 4: and stuff like that. But is there any tangible proof
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 4: or any documentary record that he was in Dallas other
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 4: than like allegations and secondhand stuff. Not really. When you
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 4: go to Spartacus and you know at the bottom they
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 4: have primary and secondary sources. One is Chauncey. Holt was
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 4: interviewed by John Craig and Gary Shaw for Newsweek magazine
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety one where he names Nicoletti, and then
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 4: you have the James File confession three years later in
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety four. And again we're pushing thirty years, thirty
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 4: plus years in the Files case of these allegations, and
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 4: again no primary documents whatsoever. So I guess to wrap up, Rob,
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 4: out of the three suspects alleged suspects that we have
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 4: discussed tonight, which one do you think would be the
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 4: most likely out of the three. And I think I
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 4: know your answer, and I think we're gonna have the
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 4: same answer to have possibly taken part in the conspiracy
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 4: to assass named president Kenna.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 3: Well, look, it's interesting. All of it's interesting. And now
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 3: I was thinking in my head, when did the book
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 3: Double Cross come out about Sam and Chuck G and Kanna?
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 3: Or it was by Chuck G and Kanna, but it
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 3: was about Sam gan Conna where he alleges that it
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 3: was Nicoletti and Kine And the book came out March twentieth,
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 3: nineteen ninety two. What's interesting is the interview you just
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 3: showed with James Files was done in nineteen ninety one.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 4: No, I believe it was ninety.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm pretty sure it was ninety one. Pop that
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 3: ship back up there real quick.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 4: All right, yeah, let me do that. Oh yeah, let
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 4: me do that.
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 3: Ninety three, Okay, ninety three. So the Gencana book comes
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 3: out before James Files says anything about Nicoletti. So there
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 3: you go. I was gonna say, if this was dated
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 3: ninety one, that would be interesting, right before the book
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 3: came out. He's gonna throw Nicoletti's name out there. But
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 3: what it seems to me is that at some point
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 3: in ninety two, old James Files got his hands on
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 3: Double Cross and read it, him being from Chicago, him
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 3: may having some loose affiliation with the mafia there as
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 3: a very low level scumbag whatever the fuck, right, inserted
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 3: himself into the Richard Kine portion of these allegations, and
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 3: you know, instead of being Richard Caine, it's him and
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 3: Nicoletti in Dallas.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 4: Right. So I.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 3: Have never and never probably will put any kind of
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 3: importance or corroboration to the James Files story about Nicoletti.
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 3: And to your question about of the three we talked
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 3: about here this evening, I think that Emilio Santana certainly
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 3: had some the operational capabilities to do this for sure,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 3: with the right guidance from people like Arkasha, because man,
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, you didn't hear it, Joe, but uh, I went,
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 3: I went deep on fucking smith Man, Sergey Arkasha. He's
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 3: got some uh and if you haven't those on members only.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 3: But went real deep with with Sergio. And he had
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 3: a lot of connections. He was in the right places
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 3: at the right times, and he was very connected, if
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 3: you will, with the Cuban exile community in UH New Orleans.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 3: And after he was pushed out of the c r
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 3: C for misappropriation of funds, I came across some documents
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 3: that he was actually behind the scenes, you know, the
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 3: the Friends of Democratic Cuba, that that that guy Banister
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 3: was a part of writing and all that he was
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 3: actually the one behind the scenes, not named as as
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 3: the head, the head guy actually pulling the strings for
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 3: the Friends of Democratic Cuba, telling them, encouraging them to
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 3: in corporate rate, telling them what they need to do
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 3: to raise money, and YadA, YadA, YadA. I think it
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 3: was a plan to get out from under the thumb
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 3: of the CIA, if you will, because these groups, these
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 3: various groups in New Orleans weren't getting money from Miami,
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 3: the headquarters of these groups. You know, they weren't sharing
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 3: their quarter of a million dollars a month with these
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 3: outreaching you know, delegates, if you will, of these various
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 3: Cuban extyle groups. So I think Smith orchestrated them to
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 3: incorporate their own deal, their own organization to where they
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 3: would control their own money, right, possibly do some things
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 3: to maybe garner the favor of the CIA just into
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 3: sponsoring them, right right, Very savvy when it came to money.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 4: You know, yeah, look what we couldn't do for you
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 4: type of thing, right, you know.
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 3: And he's got the various connections because I came across.
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 3: I came across. I don't know if I.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 4: If you put it in the burn bin yet.
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 3: I think I did put it in the burn bin already,
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 3: but I came across it was uh oh man, it was.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 3: It was a list of actually you know what it
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 3: is not in the burn bin. Oh, it is on
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 3: this computer. I think unless I deleted it, which is possible.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 3: Uh I did, but it could be it could be
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 3: in the recycle bind still they deleted. Let's see if
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 3: I can find this thing here sort by date? Uh huh.
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 3: I think I got it, hold on, hold the phone
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 3: your store. Okay, all right, let's see if I got
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 3: it somewhere here, because what it was interesting because what
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 3: it did, Joe, is it listed? Where the fuck are you?
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 3: Where is my tab?
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 4: There?
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 3: You are?
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 4: Okay, I lost my even Robbie tabbs. I understand, I
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 4: have way too many tabs of them.
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 3: Now let me let me scroll down here. What it
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 3: was was, uh so Sergio or conscious Smith had a
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 3: lot of connections to people like David Ferry, Gordon Novelle,
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 3: Richard Rudolph Davis, all of the CIA connected Cuban exiles
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 3: and and uh in there, damn, it's not the right
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 3: it's not the right file. Well that sucks anyway. It
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 3: was basically a list of c RC members that was
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 3: turned over by Louis Rebell to the FBI, specifically Warren
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 3: de Breese. Warren de Breze. Uh he got a copy
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 3: of this incorporated members and their positions in the CRC
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 3: from Louis Rebel after Smith got kicked out, and then
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 3: he got also a list from Arnsto Rodriguez. So they're
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 3: both informed to the FBI while being CIA connected, right right,
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 3: and they're outing all these people that are in the
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 3: organization of the CRC. And did you know Carlos Brignier
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 3: was in the CRC before he was the dri delegate?
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 3: I did, yes, uh ar Nesto Rodriguez. Let's see. I'm
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 3: oh I might have I might have it. Here. Hold
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 3: on because there's a name that I missed when we
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 3: were going through them that I saw later and I
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 3: was like, shit, here it is okay, So let me
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 3: share my screen so everybody can see. I don't have
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 3: a screen share tab a new layer screen share where
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 3: did triple b?
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 4: Okay?
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 3: There I is, but let me share my screen is okay?
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 3: All right? Let me blow this ship up, and let
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 3: me blow this ship up over here? Oh ship, what
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 3: are we doing here? Here we go? We blow this
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 3: up a little bit so everybody can see it. Okay,
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 3: mm hmm okay. So these are the members of the
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 3: Cuban Revolutionary Council at New Orleans. Delegado Delegate mister Louis
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 3: Rebel right, advisors, Doctor Carlos Brigner's name is on here,
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 3: doctor or mister Arnesta Rodriguez's name is on here. To
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 3: the left is public relations. And this is the name
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 3: I missed, mister Francis Cisco Bartees. Okay, Frank, mister Arnesto Rodriguez.
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 3: We're in the advertising section. You have doctor Carlos Brigner again, right,
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 3: m mister Manuel Blanco who was associated with Tony Verona. Okay,
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 3: all right, you go down a little further. Welfare don't
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 3: know any of these names. Women don't know any of
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 3: those names. Uh, Finance, don't know any of those names.
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 4: Frank, Frankie Valley, the Cuban version.
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 3: The professional side of things. We got a bunch of
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 3: people I don't know either, Civic activities people I don't
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 3: know Liaison. Oh look, mister or Espana. Oh wow, it's
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 3: part of the CRC as well. Wow, now Liaison, Joe,
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 3: I would think means that he is a go between
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 3: different organizations or different entities like the FBI.
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah right, yeah, but.
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 3: I missed Bartees earlier. But uh yeah, interesting, interesting, very
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 3: But if you missed that show, I highly recommend becoming
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 3: a member and checking it out because it was straight fire,
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 3: straight fire, and you know he's got connections to Antonio Verona, uh,
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 3: Miro Cardona.
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 4: In side about Alexander Rourke.
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 3: Well again right down here, oh Phelipe too, Yeah, the
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 3: commando's l attacked the Russian ship and US Custom Seas
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 3: Commando's L boat on its return to Miami, Florida. The
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 3: DRE members arrived off Cuba April twenty eight, sixty three,
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 3: but caught off the raid because of rough seas. On
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 3: April fifteen, sixty three, US Custom seeds with Felipe Vadal
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 3: Santiago's boat, the Pirata and dug up arms that means
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 3: rifles and guns buried by Vidal and Alexander Rourke Junior,
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 3: who would later go missing.
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 3: Plane crash part of inner penn UH. Vadal, Santiago and
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 3: Rourke claimed he and three others dropped bombs on a
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 3: refinery in Cuba on April twenty fifth. YadA, YadA, YadA.
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 3: And these are all, like I say from the files
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 3: concerning UH Sergio are cautious. Sim wow. And there's a
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 3: ship pile of them and they even you have look here, Joe,
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 3: this is a Dallas Police Department March seventh, sixty seven,
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 3: Criminal Intelligence Sergio or Kasha keepan refugee. And this is
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 3: when I guess when Garrison was digging in on Yeah,
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 3: and they asked for a name check of Sergio or
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 3: Kashia Smith, David Willien Ferry, Emilio Santana and that was
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 3: just a report. And oh, by the way, Hugh Ainsworth
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 3: was the one that tipped off Sergio Orkassha Smith and
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 3: told him that Garrison was full of shit. Don't go
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 3: to New Orleans, stay away from him. You're only gonna
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 3: get you know, bad bad vibes, bad bad things will
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 3: happen to you if you mess with Garrison. So Hugh
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 3: Ainsworth was in it was in Sergio's ear about Garrison
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 3: telling him to stay away. Wow, because they had I
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 3: guess tapped Smith's phone at some point, and uh, yeah,
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 3: Hugh Ainsworth was in his ear.
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 3: And then they're talking about how how all these things
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 3: were you know, with the CIA that guy Banister had
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 3: moved into the new Newman building from the Balter Building,
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 3: and so did Sergio and David Ferry with their anti
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 3: Castor organization, the Friends of Democratic Cuba, which bought trucks
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 3: for the no the name of Lee Oswald while he's
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 3: still in Russia. Right, So yeah, I mean, and then
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 3: you start getting into the Lazel Beckham Thorn Lean, Jack Martin,
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 3: he's the club our I mention the Bill Dalzel. Dalzel
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 3: was CIA through and through. You can see the notation
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 3: right here. But I mean, you know, you don't graduate
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 3: from Georgetown University, know in seven languages, and you know
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 3: use some bumpfuck dipshit not be recruited right right. You know,
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 3: the guy was in in Africa, he was in the
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 3: Middle East, he was in South America, Bill Dalzel. And
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 3: you see they have Arkasha bracketed and they have him
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 3: listed as CIA as well. So all kinds of crazy stuff.
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 4: Man, it is. And you know when we talk about suspects,
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 4: we talk about people that have the I guess the
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 4: term is will and like the Kahones to use a
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 4: Spanish term to be part of an operation like this,
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 4: and a lot of the people we just talked about
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 4: click the boxes. And to answer my own question and
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 4: kind of weave back, I believe Emilio Santana going back
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 4: and forth into Cuba under Castro's Cuba, you know, extracting people,
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 4: extracting his family and who knows what else. I would
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 4: rank him my number one for sure. If I had
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 4: to rank them in order. Of the three people we
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 4: talked about tonight, I would say probably Caine too, just
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 4: because he was nuts crazy based.
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 3: On your Yeah, I don't know Kine so much as
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 3: being an assassin of the president, but he was definitely
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 3: in some shit involved in He could have been, you know,
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 3: a key part of things. But certainly no slouts, and
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 3: certainly I could see somebody who would do something like
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 3: that for sure, if he got bald enough to walk
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 3: up to the CIA station in Mexico City and knock
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 3: on the door and be like, Hey, I'm doing this.
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 3: This isn't that you need to you know, hire me
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 3: type of thing, you know, and plus all the other
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 3: things that the CIA. I mean, he went into the
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 3: Chicago office of the CIA, I don't know how many times,
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 3: right between sixty two and sixty three or nineteen sixty
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 3: and sixty three, probably at least four or five times,
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 3: offering to do work for him, and who knows how
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 3: much they actually gave him to do. I mean, the
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 3: guy was a hell of a wire tapper, private investigator
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 3: on the side before he got in with the mob
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 3: and got corrupted in all of that. But yeah, it's
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 3: who knows, man. I mean, there's a guy matching his
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 3: description that was seen, you know, running out the back
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 3: door of the depository. So I'm just saying.
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I would definitely put Nicoletti as complete bullshit
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 4: coming out thirty years later pretty much. Although definitely involved
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 4: with the Mafia right and the Chicago outfit doesn't necessarily
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 4: mean you're involved in the JFK assassination, although it makes
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 4: for a good conspiracy lore conversation.
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 3: But absolutely all right, folks, that's a pod is back
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 3: in banger as ever. Triple B, Joe B, we thank
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 3: you for hanging out with us this evening. I'm glad
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 3: we got our audio issues squared away at least for
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 3: this week.
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 4: Thank god.
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 3: And glad Joe you could be a part of the
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 3: show this evening, or else it would have been really boring,
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 3: Well not really, I mean, i'd Richard Kane, but you
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 3: know it wouldn't have been a banger of a show
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 3: with out Emilio and Nicoletty as well. So thank you
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 3: for that. Yes, and thank you folks, especially you Double
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 3: B for all the generous contributions to the show. We
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 3: appreciate the hell out of you. We appreciate each one
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 3: of you guys that are here watching the show live,
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 3: participating in the chat. Make sure to smash that like
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 3: button on your way out the door. Hype the video
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 3: after it gets posted. Spend your hype points on this show.
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 3: It helps out. I don't know how, but apparently it
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 3: does for some visibility, allegedly allegedly. So with that being said, Joe,
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 3: grab the goddamn dog, Dio, get your fat ass here.
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 3: Come to Bourbon Street and I'll show you what I
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 3: think of the case.
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 4: Are shit.
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 3: There? She is? What's up?
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 4: She was upstairs hiding?
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 5: Justice is Jim Gatrison's.
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 3: It could be used for him or against him in
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 3: this case. Good Night members missed. Yeah, we're gonna get
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 3: back to the book reviews. Don't worry. They were just
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 3: gonna hive this for a little while. We'll be back
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 3: with him. I made three public tonight that used to
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 3: be private. Though there's three new ones over there to
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 3: check out in the book review tab of the podcast section.
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 3: So I made three of them public that used to
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 3: be private, that were never seen before. Uh so check
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 3: those out. In the meantime, We'll see you next week.
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 4: Yes, have a great weekend, have a great Easter for
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 4: those who celebrate, and we will see soon.
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 3: Peace and Bunny Grease