Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of The Ribos Operation (1/4)

Transcript

Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of The Ribos Operation (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  The bones, the bones, the bones. The one you'll seek is here, and
• 0:06
  his name is Martin Parsons. Martin.
• 0:09
  Hello. Hello, Joe.
• 0:10
  How are you? I've heard a rumour Martin, by
• 0:13
  the end of this podcast, all but one dooms will die.
• 0:18
  Thus written. So how do you feel about taking
• 0:21
  over? Perhaps a blood pen knife?
• 0:23
  Well, we're serious. We're serious.
• 0:24
  The last man stamping. Oh that's true.
• 0:26
  Either I'll be 1 guest less or you'll be the new host.
• 0:29
  Well, exactly. That's it.
• 0:30
  Both. Both are acceptable.
• 0:32
  Does it depend which of us shoots the other one in the
• 0:34
  face? God, the face shooting started
• 0:37
  already. I'm so sorry, I wasn't.
• 0:41
  I wasn't talking about a gun. How are you today?
• 0:46
  I'm very well, thank you. A little bit, a little bit busy,
• 0:49
  but apart from that I'm fine. It's nice to get a break, talk
• 0:51
  to Doctor Who. It's the best way to spend your
• 0:54
  time, frankly talking about and we're sort of heading towards
• 0:57
  Christmas, so I think a snowy themed story is quite
• 1:00
  appropriate, yeah. Absolutely.
• 1:02
  Can I ask you, please, Season 16?
• 1:06
  That's my personal favorite season of classic Doctor Who.
• 1:10
  That's not a popular opinion, but I just love the tone.
• 1:14
  Obviously, I think it's intelligent.
• 1:15
  I think it's funny, I I think the character acting in it is.
• 1:20
  There's none finer in some examples, including this story.
• 1:23
  Where do you fall in this season?
• 1:25
  I I so I don't think I'd say it's my favorite of classic,
• 1:29
  although actually I don't know if I've ever thought what my
• 1:31
  favorite season, full season. Is don't be predictable and say
• 1:35
  no, No 7 or 25. You could come out with trial of
• 1:39
  a Time Lord or something like that.
• 1:41
  I'll be very grateful. I mean, it is good, but no, I
• 1:43
  think I, I do also agree, I think season 16 is brilliant.
• 1:47
  And I think like you said, the tone is really spot on for 90%
• 1:54
  of it. I would say.
• 1:55
  I think it feels like Graham Williams has kind of come into
• 1:58
  his own after coming in and it some really great stories, but
• 2:04
  including Fendall that we covered.
• 2:05
  But some a little bit of maybe imbalance in cut in some of the
• 2:11
  tone that's going on and things that feel like they would have
• 2:13
  been better off back in the sort of Hinchley theorem, things that
• 2:17
  don't quite work. And I think in season 16 in key
• 2:20
  to time, everything works or pretty much pretty much
• 2:23
  everything works. I've never know how generous I
• 2:25
  want to be towards the latest stories that she's.
• 2:28
  Come after the Armageddon factor by everyone on that strictly.
• 2:32
  I did recently have this sudden thought of how brilliant it
• 2:36
  would have been and they'd never have done this sort of thing at
• 2:38
  the time. But if Armageddon Factor could
• 2:40
  have been split as A-24 split and have two episodes where it's
• 2:46
  just the Doctor and Roman that are twatting around on a boring
• 2:49
  space station and they don't get the segment and then have 4
• 2:53
  episodes that's like radiation caves and, and sort of do a bit
• 2:57
  of a split there. And I kind of, and I was
• 2:59
  thinking like, would that have made it kind of better using the
• 3:03
  materials in a slightly separate, slightly different
• 3:06
  way, but not needy any extra actors or anything.
• 3:08
  I don't know. I mean, they'd never have done
• 3:09
  it. It wouldn't have happened.
• 3:11
  But I felt maybe that might have made the story work a bit
• 3:13
  better. I think only Robert Holmes
• 3:15
  really cracked those six partners, didn't they?
• 3:17
  With. Yeah, exactly.
• 3:22
  Otherwise, they are far, far too long.
• 3:24
  I think one of the savviest things that Graham Williams
• 3:28
  realized is that, you know, we're really shit at doing the
• 3:31
  science fiction because there's been a budget and there's no
• 3:33
  money left anymore. But we've really great at doing
• 3:36
  historicals. So why don't we tell two stories
• 3:39
  this year that are effectively science fiction stories but look
• 3:43
  like historicals, which is just genius.
• 3:46
  And I, my personal favorites this year are Rebos and the
• 3:49
  Androids of Tara. One, because I think the moneys
• 3:51
  on the screen, and two, Two, because they just present such
• 3:55
  amazing worlds. I think they're probably my
• 3:59
  favorite too as well. I mean like Stones of Blood is
• 4:02
  excellent. I have to sort of but and it
• 4:05
  maybe has my heart sort of overall, but it's not really
• 4:09
  very logical. May I ask you a personal
• 4:12
  question? Are you from outer space?
• 4:17
  Will you marry me? I mean, I guess that's right.
• 4:20
  That's what I meant to say. Sorry, I'm asking a lot of
• 4:23
  people proposals at the moment. I've had quite a few yeses, you
• 4:26
  know. Christmas is coming up.
• 4:27
  Yeah, I'm expecting the gifts, you know, but what about Rebos?
• 4:32
  And then we've got a lot of time to talk about it, although
• 4:35
  mostly we'll just be quoting because the lines are oh.
• 4:37
  God, yeah. But what about this story?
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  So I the first parts of the key to time for a long time, the
• 4:43
  only parts of the key to time I'd seen was I was bought for my
• 4:46
  birthday, I think rebos and stones with blood.
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  So I only had those two. So I watched those two the most
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  and I think Rebos, I mean, last time I was on was to sort of
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  defend what I think is an underrated gem in image of the
• 5:00
  Fendale. I think Rebos is just a 5 out of
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  five banger. I don't think it and I do think
• 5:05
  a lot of people do realise that there are some mad people that
• 5:08
  don't like it or don't appreciate it as much as they
• 5:10
  should. We're looking at you, Gary
• 5:12
  Russell, when you're a one star reviewer Doctor Who Magazine.
• 5:16
  Gary But I think but I but I but I Sorry, Gary no, but I.
• 5:20
  We love you, Gary. Sorry.
• 5:23
  Your opinions are shit, but we love you.
• 5:25
  Yeah, exactly. But no, I think, yeah, I think
• 5:30
  it's excellent. I think the everything gels
• 5:34
  together really well. I'm going to try and be critical
• 5:38
  at some points, but I think mostly overall the cast is
• 5:41
  great. I think the directing is great.
• 5:44
  I think the writing is fantastic, the music is good.
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  The design is pretty like there's not really a weak point
• 5:50
  in it. My Co host from Untitled Star
• 5:53
  Trek project who did the first iteration of this commentary on
• 5:57
  Hamster. Now he absolutely adores his
• 5:59
  story, but he thinks George Benton Foster is a dismal
• 6:03
  director of television and he can't he can't point a camera
• 6:07
  from from his ass to his elbow. But I mean, I've come to the
• 6:11
  conclusion that spent and foster with image of the Fendale and
• 6:14
  the Rebus operation. He he's not given big
• 6:18
  action-packed stories. We talked about it and it's
• 6:21
  atmosphere, isn't it? And that's what he brews up
• 6:23
  brilliantly in both stories and and casting, which he does
• 6:27
  impeccably in both cases. But I also think he, and this is
• 6:31
  also partly, and I really need to be more praising of the
• 6:34
  designers this time around because we weren't really for
• 6:36
  Fendale, but it's all part of the the same thing.
• 6:38
  But I think he does make a really good job of of using the
• 6:43
  sets that he's given, especially making the sets appear bigger
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  than they are, adding impressions of scale, adding
• 6:51
  impressions of sort of extension on some of the sets.
• 6:54
  Yeah, I think he does a really good he.
• 6:56
  Sells space, doesn't he? And he does.
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  I when I watched this back earlier this week, that's for
• 7:02
  this, I was really struck as well by the sound effects.
• 7:05
  There's like, church bells in the background, wind whistling.
• 7:09
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:10
  And. When they're in the, you know,
• 7:12
  Bin Rose, you know, sort of the, the homeless bit and you can
• 7:15
  hear people screaming and shouting in the background.
• 7:17
  There's just lots of little sound details.
• 7:19
  So sell it as a world. Yeah.
• 7:21
  Oh, really? And fantastically great and also
• 7:23
  the sort of non digesting like the when it's at the end, I'm
• 7:27
  jumping forward. But when the graph in decay is
• 7:29
  like remembering the battles and you get that sound rise.
• 7:32
  It is so good and the sort of thing that you don't get that
• 7:36
  often really in Doctor. Who I still think that death is
• 7:39
  the most hilarious death in all. I mean operatic does not cover.
• 7:43
  No, it does not, but it's absolutely brilliant.
• 7:46
  Sherlock. Sherlock for.
• 7:52
  It's just the dogs are counting down.
• 7:54
  It's so cold. It's pretty.
• 7:55
  He's like 3, so you're 1. Bang.
• 7:58
  Yeah, I just don't understand people that that don't like this
• 8:02
  either. I mean, if it's short on
• 8:03
  incident, it's certainly not short on charm on laughs.
• 8:07
  On Fantastic. Characters on sparkling
• 8:10
  dialogue. Do people not like these things?
• 8:13
  What are you looking for if it's not that?
• 8:16
  You're never going to get, you know, cinema or in classic
• 8:18
  Doctor Who, for fucks sake, no. No, no, no, no.
• 8:21
  You take what we can get. Well, look, I mean, we haven't
• 8:24
  even begin to discuss the the quest that the doctors made to
• 8:29
  go on or the new companion that's going to be in this, but
• 8:32
  should we go into episode 1? And I mean, that's that's pretty
• 8:36
  much going to be where we start. So yeah, would you like to count
• 8:40
  us in? Shy cat sin to begin with.
• 8:42
  OK, please. So let us start in 321.
• 8:50
  Off we go now. I can't even ask you about the
• 8:52
  title sequence this time because we covered that one image of
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  Defender. Yeah, we've done this.
• 8:56
  It's great. What I will say is the opening
• 9:02
  scene of this has one of my favorite single bits of lighting
• 9:06
  ever in classic Doctor. Who?
• 9:08
  That was my first note. About tell me.
• 9:10
  You tell me, then. It was it was basically TARDIS
• 9:13
  is starting to look a bit shit, but the lighting is fantastic.
• 9:16
  It's. Really striking, isn't it?
• 9:18
  It literally as if God has visited the TARDIS.
• 9:21
  Yeah, I think it works completely.
• 9:24
  What I like about this first beginning bit though, is it's
• 9:26
  one of those things that we get very rarely in Doctor Who where
• 9:30
  it's kind of the lads travelling.
• 9:33
  You get you get it, you get it that little bit in Keeper of
• 9:36
  Track and it's just the Doctor in Adric, you get it in Planet
• 9:38
  of Fire and you don't get it that often.
• 9:42
  And they. Seem the massacre.
• 9:43
  That's not really the lads, but. You know what I mean?
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  But they always seem to be having loads of fun as well.
• 9:48
  It's just the doctor and one male or canine companion.
• 9:53
  Strikes me there is, it goes pitch black and then the doors
• 9:57
  open it all the roundels light up.
• 9:59
  It looks so good. I think when Williams gets it
• 10:04
  right with the production value, it gets it really right.
• 10:08
  The trouble is, more often than not, it gets it.
• 10:10
  Doesn't, but yeah. So, Doctor Who is given an
• 10:14
  assignment by God? Discuss.
• 10:17
  I am completely here for it. I think the Guardians, they, I
• 10:23
  don't think, I think they work far better than they should
• 10:26
  because in concept it's like, OK, like it's just the gods.
• 10:28
  You know, this isn't really what we do in Doctor Who, but because
• 10:33
  they don't get undercut by sort of, Oh no, it's just you think
• 10:37
  that they're gods, but they're not because they basically are.
• 10:40
  Like, they just, they just are. But I think the acting is so
• 10:43
  good and the fact that they're used very, very sparingly.
• 10:48
  I I'm always a bit upset that Cyril Lucum doesn't do more than
• 10:52
  than he than he does, but I'm also incredibly happy that he
• 10:55
  came back for enlightenment, even if he's got a stupid bird
• 10:58
  on his head, because he. He's shoved on his head.
• 11:01
  He is so fucking cool, sat in that chair with that hat with
• 11:05
  his Creme de Mont, which is obviously like the classy sort
• 11:08
  of drink of the 70s, but he's just amazing.
• 11:12
  He's. Creme de Mont.
• 11:13
  I thought it was absurd. Oh mate, it could be, it could
• 11:16
  be absent, but. We do the lines.
• 11:18
  Come on, Martin, are you just trying to say that nothing will
• 11:20
  happen to me? Nothing at all, ever.
• 11:26
  Sounds like my sex life, yeah. But he but he is, he is
• 11:30
  genuinely. I mean, the only other thing I
• 11:32
  think I've seen Sir Luck him in is the The Omega Factor, the
• 11:36
  Louise Jameson series where he plays a fucking terrifying
• 11:41
  magician who and, and he has a bit and he's got real kind of
• 11:45
  gravitas. Every line he says here is
• 11:47
  amazing. Like it just comes across so
• 11:49
  well and he is a bit scary. But he's also delivering a shit
• 11:54
  ton of exposition, Right? He's basically right.
• 11:56
  Doctor. Here's the season ahead of you.
• 11:58
  This is what you're going to have to do.
• 12:00
  This is why you're doing it. And this is the reason why we
• 12:02
  have to do it. OK.
• 12:04
  But you've got Tom in there being utterly irreverent.
• 12:07
  So that means it just sings because, you know, they're
• 12:10
  hidden all amongst time. Well hidden, Sir, I hope.
• 12:13
  Yes, you know, yeah, really clever.
• 12:17
  I mean, I think Holmes could write exposition in his sleep
• 12:20
  because he just understands characters.
• 12:22
  Yeah, definitely. And I think the the, like you
• 12:24
  said, the Doctor's being kind of petulant and that's really good
• 12:27
  because he so he does undercut the sort of pomposity of it.
• 12:30
  But you also see that the Doctor is genuinely kind of scared of
• 12:34
  this person. And when he is like, no like,
• 12:37
  and he's ever like, it's so good.
• 12:41
  It's when he goes. I'm going to give you an
• 12:42
  assistant. Oh, no, Sir, please.
• 12:45
  They just trip up and get into trouble.
• 12:47
  Just can't I just deal with canine please?
• 12:49
  I think there is quite a lot of good stuff in this story about
• 12:51
  that, where they almost analyse the role of the companion.
• 12:54
  Well, he's like, they're just here to trip over and whatever
• 12:56
  and it's. And yet he's the person that
• 12:58
  falls into the trap. I mean, that's the biggest shift
• 13:03
  here, right? That I noticed is until this
• 13:06
  point, the Doctor is the smart one and the companion is the
• 13:10
  subsidiary role. Then Mary Tam turns up and she's
• 13:14
  and suddenly he can just do knockabout comedy because she's
• 13:17
  the competent 1. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:19
  And she fills out that space of Yeah.
• 13:21
  And especially later on we get things like Android Tatara,
• 13:23
  where she does literally leave the adventure.
• 13:26
  But I like, there's one thing when he says one final thing,
• 13:28
  Doctor. And he goes yes.
• 13:29
  And he's such a teenager. He's so sort of, he's just so
• 13:33
  Moody. But like Sarah and Leela were so
• 13:36
  wide eyed and impressed with him all the time, ramana #1 could
• 13:40
  not be less impressed with the Doctor if she tried.
• 13:44
  I mean that's the line isn't it? Before I.
• 13:45
  Met you. I was.
• 13:46
  Even willing to be impressed. Indeed he.
• 13:50
  Goes It's so great. Oh, beware the black Guardian.
• 13:55
  The black. Guardian.
• 13:57
  But I don't. I've never mentioned of him
• 13:59
  until Stones of Blood. Yeah.
• 14:01
  And I think that is a bit of a shame that they almost set
• 14:03
  something up in this, which you get mentioned of later on, of
• 14:06
  the idea of the Black Guardians agents.
• 14:09
  And there aren't really any until you get to the Shadow.
• 14:12
  Like there are, there are bad people, but they're not
• 14:14
  connected. The White Guardian.
• 14:16
  I have a theory about the key to time if you allow me to share it
• 14:20
  with. Go on please.
• 14:21
  Well, and that is that they basically decide arcs don't work
• 14:24
  in Doctor Who. They give it a good stab here
• 14:26
  right, But ultimately the writers, they don't want to be
• 14:29
  telling these stories about the key to time.
• 14:31
  David Fisher has Romana solve it yes, they only 5 minutes of the
• 14:36
  Android Zatara and then just tells his story.
• 14:38
  It shows the blood. He just waits till the end and
• 14:40
  has a necklace ripped off and goes there you go, there's your
• 14:42
  second. Oh.
• 14:43
  That's it. You know they don't want to.
• 14:44
  They don't want to going to be bound by or not, which is why at
• 14:47
  the end of the season they literally tear it apart and go,
• 14:52
  well, that's enough of that nonsense and I'm going to plug
• 14:55
  this thing into the TARDIS, which means we're never going on
• 14:57
  a mission again. Everything's random again.
• 14:59
  Hurrah. It's true, actually.
• 15:02
  And I think Robert Holmes, he does get the the the concept
• 15:06
  sort of better than every Well, no, I mean, Douglas Adams does
• 15:08
  great stuff with it too. But I think the the idea of the
• 15:10
  key being the segment being an important part of the adventure,
• 15:15
  Robert Holmes does that best, I think, out out of anyone rather
• 15:18
  than the rest where it's like, yeah, something else here.
• 15:20
  I. Mean I I love his use of it in
• 15:22
  Crow as well. It's brilliant.
• 15:23
  It's brilliant that I think that's absolutely fantastic,
• 15:25
  yeah. That's it.
• 15:27
  We we want the biggest monster ever in Doctor Who.
• 15:29
  Oh fine, this monster at the segment.
• 15:32
  And got massive. I think that's brilliant and
• 15:34
  we've got so. Who's put a hole in my Tardis?
• 15:37
  Hole in my Tardis. So we haven't took Mary Tam's.
• 15:40
  Come on. Mary Tam.
• 15:42
  I mean I. More the turn, Martin.
• 15:47
  But the thing about Mary Tam is I think more than anyone else.
• 15:49
  So as I said last time, Louise Jameson I think is the best
• 15:53
  actress to have played a companion, not necessarily my
• 15:56
  favorite companion, but I think she's the best actress.
• 15:59
  But Mary Tam is a film star. She she has it's not it's not
• 16:05
  just about being good looking, but it's about scream presence.
• 16:09
  And I don't think anyone else has the presence that Mary Tam
• 16:11
  has. And she, I really, I feel she
• 16:14
  should have been. I mean, she's in, well, she's in
• 16:16
  the Odessa file, which is a bit pretty thankless role for her,
• 16:19
  but she. Should have been doing big
• 16:20
  movies. She should have been doing big
• 16:22
  movies and and she could have and would have been absolutely
• 16:25
  brilliant and would have had the look and had the the poise and
• 16:29
  everything the. Funniest thing is like, she's
• 16:31
  like, I don't have to act, look at me, Yeah.
• 16:33
  And I just have to be in the scene.
• 16:35
  And if anything, I think in this one she is maybe not quite
• 16:41
  hitting it all the time. There's a few bits where she she
• 16:45
  sort of misses a line a little bit and and.
• 16:47
  It's oh, what the action mean. Yes, yeah.
• 16:50
  It's not terrible. It's not and it's no worse than
• 16:52
  other actor companion actors, you know, But, but I sort of
• 16:55
  feel she. But I do think she gets better
• 16:57
  and by the end she is just incredible, I think later.
• 17:00
  On Barnes, Gary, I don't need to get the jokes right.
• 17:02
  Have you? Seen my pits?
• 17:04
  I mean. And I think that's what the
• 17:07
  director's doing something. Yeah, You know, she's doing good
• 17:09
  stuff. Can we just have her in a scene?
• 17:12
  I don't care what she's doing. She's absolutely beautiful.
• 17:15
  But but she, I mean, she is and she, and there's something about
• 17:17
  the fact that she's only in this one season, and even that for
• 17:20
  very sad reasons, she only did one season of Big Finish as
• 17:24
  well. There's something really special
• 17:26
  about Romana, one that we're so limited in how much we get of
• 17:29
  her. Unfortunately, she was saddled
• 17:31
  with a load of Nick Briggs scripts.
• 17:33
  In that season, I mean the actual quality of the season,
• 17:36
  although the antimatter I think is absolutely.
• 17:38
  Bang Up Julia McKenzie has not had on.
• 17:41
  And I hope that when they when they get round, I don't know if
• 17:44
  they they probably could if they wanted to, but I wish for the
• 17:47
  Blu-ray of season 16, they'd stick the antimatter in as an
• 17:50
  extra. I think that would be really
• 17:51
  nice in. Terms of the DD was quite a good
• 17:53
  one as well. That's all right.
• 17:55
  That's that's, that's got Alice Krieger and has it.
• 17:57
  Yeah, That's, that's, that's a fun one.
• 17:59
  Yeah, yeah. Variable, but it was special
• 18:02
  just because she was involved. Because she was just in it.
• 18:05
  Yeah, that. I mean, I'm.
• 18:06
  Currently listening to mine the second series of Gallifrey.
• 18:09
  Oh yes, having not mentioned Pandora, yeah.
• 18:12
  Pandora yeah, there is obviously that too, which is great.
• 18:15
  A bit more time with Mary Town, but of the of the Romana stuff,
• 18:18
  there's obviously so little of it that it just feels extra
• 18:21
  special. I just don't think there's a
• 18:22
  dynamic between doctor and assistant like the the first
• 18:26
  Romana and Tom Baker with with her spectacularly looking down
• 18:32
  her nose at everything throughout the entire season.
• 18:35
  Now, some people find that sort of pompous and arrogant.
• 18:38
  Oh, I think that's hilarious. Great.
• 18:40
  It's great. And how she just avoids traps
• 18:44
  and it's just utterly competent. I think it's good.
• 18:47
  I think it's good for Tom as well because he is clearly aware
• 18:51
  that he is sharing the screen with someone who's also sort of
• 18:55
  ethereal and, and kind of floating above the material in
• 18:59
  their own way. And so he's not, you know, he
• 19:01
  has to kind of work with his. Bewitch.
• 19:03
  And he knows he cannot pull the shit he did.
• 19:05
  No, no. Absolutely not.
• 19:07
  No, no, no. I mean, you trust us so doesn't
• 19:10
  he in that bit in the do you remember?
• 19:12
  You see that off off shot the. Christmas thing, but yeah, yeah,
• 19:15
  she. Goes I'm not doing this.
• 19:17
  Did you just see that little shot the Shrivensarl there?
• 19:21
  The little. Yeah, I've not seen floppier
• 19:24
  wrists outside of a gay nightclub.
• 19:26
  Good grief. I think the Shrivensault is I,
• 19:30
  I, I sort of feel like it's pretty, it's fine.
• 19:33
  It's it's sort of successful as Doctor monsters go.
• 19:36
  There's nothing awful about it. I like it when you get it in the
• 19:40
  cliffhanger with it's sort of bloody jaws It it sort of works
• 19:44
  quite well, the lighting. It's in the dark here, so it's
• 19:47
  just sort of blinking away and breathing when it's when when
• 19:50
  it's clearly Stuart fell sort of hands and knees looking.
• 19:53
  That's a bit. I mean look at the light in here
• 19:56
  now. We haven't even spoken about
• 19:57
  Garen and unstopped No, but we're in the in the the dual
• 20:01
  room now, aren't we? What's it called the?
• 20:05
  Thank you very much, Jesus Christ.
• 20:08
  And clearly it's night time because you've got the moonlight
• 20:11
  coming in through the window. Really nice.
• 20:13
  I think they do. He does really good stuff with
• 20:15
  just the fact that it's always snowing outside.
• 20:17
  So you know that you're outside because obviously on the studio
• 20:20
  sets, sometimes you don't know if you're meant to be outside or
• 20:22
  inside, but you do know that. Look, the merry town there.
• 20:25
  Yeah, the hairs are. Brushing her hair and the dog.
• 20:29
  Tom's like. If I've got myself into here, my
• 20:34
  God, no one's going to be looking at me on the screen
• 20:36
  anymore. Do you think that's why he's so
• 20:39
  eccentric this season? He's.
• 20:41
  Going to do something? I'm over here.
• 20:45
  Someone look at me. Oh, this is great.
• 20:47
  This is not going to work. You know Martin.
• 20:50
  Oh no my oh sorry, my iPlayer is frozen.
• 20:53
  Oh my God, hang on, I'll pause as well.
• 20:55
  Don't you worry, I'm getting used to these little technical
• 20:58
  difficulties now. Yeah, Oh God, hang on.
• 21:01
  You know, whilst we're waiting, ask you to GAIL everybody with
• 21:05
  the Rebus Operation Music. How you doing?
• 21:20
  No, I'm just going to quickly restart this page because it's
• 21:23
  oh God, it's just buffering. Oh, don't say that can't be
• 21:26
  reached. Yes, can be reached.
• 21:28
  OK, so I start this again. Right, I couldn't edit around
• 21:30
  this. Yeah, sorry about this.
• 21:33
  OK. Oh, hang on right now, I'll.
• 21:34
  Tell you where I'll go to. I've got now listen, it's no
• 21:36
  good. Oh, sorry.
• 21:37
  Yeah. Which should we go back to?
• 21:38
  Should. We go back to the start of this
• 21:40
  bit so I went cuts to her brushing her hair.
• 21:42
  Yeah, OK, let's do that. OK, so stuff in the right there.
• 21:46
  She's brushing her hair. You're sulking.
• 21:47
  Yeah, I've got sulking. OK, perfect.
• 21:49
  There we go. Yeah.
• 21:50
  Yeah, 321. I mean, look at Mary's hand
• 21:54
  there, brushing her hair. It's great.
• 21:57
  I just like, there's no need for it, but it's just like she's
• 21:59
  just filling the screen. It's brilliant.
• 22:01
  Like she's just so wonderful. 700 and 59700 and. 56 It's not
• 22:07
  old, it's just mature. You've got them out somewhere,
• 22:10
  you know I. Don't know what that was in.
• 22:11
  Was that in 30 years in the TARDIS?
• 22:13
  That line, the that's not old, it's just mature is always sort
• 22:17
  of stuck in my in my head. You know, you must be getting a
• 22:21
  bit foggy, Martin. You know, over the centuries.
• 22:24
  But I love how he's genuinely pissed off that like the doctor,
• 22:27
  he's like, you're coming in here cramping my style, taking shock.
• 22:31
  On his face when she says I was even willing to be embarrassed.
• 22:38
  I mean, it is. It is about as far away from the
• 22:42
  sort of lonely God that they're going for in the new series,
• 22:46
  isn't it? He is literally the dishevelled,
• 22:48
  trampish improviser that is brilliant.
• 22:53
  And I think the lonely God stuff always needs puncturing, and
• 22:57
  they don't do that enough of bringing in people to just be
• 23:00
  like, what? I mean, I loved it when I mean,
• 23:01
  I really hate the episode, but in Waters of Mars, where you've
• 23:05
  got Lindsay Duncan just being like, what the fuck do you think
• 23:09
  you're doing? And it's.
• 23:10
  Little people. Yeah, yeah.
• 23:12
  And having someone who's that calibre of actress as well-being
• 23:15
  in that role is great. Just being like stuck off.
• 23:18
  You've been so annoying. This is really clever as well
• 23:21
  that the obviously they've taken the Jethrock to Rebos, so it's
• 23:26
  in two separate locations. Yeah, when they're gonna land.
• 23:30
  And just that really, again, it's Robert Holmes is really
• 23:32
  thinking about it, like, OK, they're in the quest for this
• 23:35
  thing. What would actually happen?
• 23:36
  They've got the trace of how would that work?
• 23:38
  He's really, really think it through in a way that not
• 23:41
  everyone does. But like, even more brilliantly
• 23:44
  you they set up this epic quest across all of time and space.
• 23:49
  And what story does he tell? A high story in the corner of a
• 23:53
  a jewel room. And there and there are not
• 23:56
  enough heists in Doctor Who. This I remember being really
• 24:00
  decided when they announced Time Heist and then be like and.
• 24:03
  Then you've watched it. And then you want, then I
• 24:04
  watched it, then I watched it. But I think that sort of thing
• 24:07
  is you need more of that in Doctor Who.
• 24:10
  Just something. For fun and all the great
• 24:12
  characters are in already. We've not.
• 24:14
  We've not even spoken about Garen.
• 24:16
  Unstuffed the graph indication luck.
• 24:18
  They're all here. And and all brilliant, but I
• 24:21
  think particularly, I mean Ian Cuthbertson is incredible and
• 24:27
  he's such a great actor. He can do.
• 24:30
  These are primitive people, easily panicked I think.
• 24:35
  Yeah, Ian Katherson can absolutely do.
• 24:37
  He can do sweet. He can do scary.
• 24:40
  He can do sort of like, you know, cool and funny.
• 24:46
  He can do absolutely everything. And hilariously funny.
• 24:50
  And he's. Another one of those actors who
• 24:52
  I think again, was having mentioned Lindsay Duncan, but he
• 24:54
  he's one of those actors who it's almost like the series is
• 24:58
  lucky to have him. The fact that he's done a Doctor
• 25:00
  Who, it just feels really special that that you've got
• 25:05
  someone that's kind of that good of an actor in Doctor Who.
• 25:07
  Tom doesn't even try and best him in episode No when he's
• 25:11
  regaling his stories about the Arab coming after him with the
• 25:14
  machine gun when he tried to. Sell Sydney, Tom.
• 25:18
  Just puts his feet up and goes, no, please, I'll just need to
• 25:21
  listen to this. So I've, you know, people say
• 25:25
  about Tom that he can muck around and things like that.
• 25:27
  I think when he comes up against a really good actor, it's like
• 25:31
  Beatrice Layman in Stoic. Sense of blood, Yeah.
• 25:34
  I wonder if that's what having gone back to Fendall was the
• 25:37
  same thing. But I wonder if that's what
• 25:38
  George Spencer Foster was doing. He was like, right, Tom, if I
• 25:41
  fill the screen with all these amazing actors that you can't be
• 25:44
  fucking around anymore because maybe.
• 25:46
  Your behave, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:48
  It could be the reason they put Mary Time in the TARDIS, right?
• 25:51
  To be fair, I didn't have a look at the production notes for this
• 25:55
  one, so I don't know what the experience was like for him this
• 25:58
  time because it spent in Foster. He didn't have a great time
• 26:01
  making image the Fendale. I mean, because it's so fun.
• 26:04
  I just like to think everyone's having a ride.
• 26:07
  I hope so, yeah. Yeah.
• 26:09
  I mean, look at her, the ice Princess putting on her
• 26:11
  feathers. I don't quite know.
• 26:14
  She's got that greatest sort of dress.
• 26:15
  I don't really know what the coat.
• 26:17
  If the coat really works here, it's got pluck.
• 26:19
  Chicken, I think you know. Pluck chicken.
• 26:21
  But she gets she gets some good outfits later on, doesn't she?
• 26:23
  But that. Is a great shot through the wall
• 26:27
  so you have the whole. Of a set.
• 26:28
  This is the thing. It gives you a sense of scale
• 26:31
  which you don't get always using these little sets.
• 26:36
  The cushions on the floor as well, the furs everywhere.
• 26:39
  I mean they've clearly robbed from 100 different shows.
• 26:42
  Yeah, absolutely. That's, that's what they do
• 26:46
  best, isn't it? Just sort of going in and
• 26:48
  pillaging all the other all the store cupboards.
• 26:51
  You're doing what? A Russian drama?
• 26:53
  Great. Yeah, perfect.
• 26:55
  We'll have that. 10 min coats please.
• 26:57
  But there's some lovely world building in here as well.
• 27:00
  Very, very sort of smooth and. Well, Martin, if anyone asks you
• 27:05
  just tell them we're from the North, all right?
• 27:08
  I've got no problem saying that. The doctor overhears him and
• 27:13
  just goes Oh no, we're from the. North, we're from the north,
• 27:15
  which is wonderfully delivered that line, yeah.
• 27:17
  I mean you get that great off screen character thing that
• 27:21
  Holmes does. I did carnivore monsters
• 27:22
  recently and you've got Presidents arm in that.
• 27:25
  Oh yeah, here. It's the Graf's brother, isn't
• 27:27
  it? Who?
• 27:28
  Yeah, and that took the throne from him.
• 27:31
  But that background, it's what's great is later on when Garen's
• 27:34
  then explaining to the doctor and you realise what he's like.
• 27:38
  Yeah, but the people didn't want him back.
• 27:40
  It wasn't so much that the brother deserved the throne,
• 27:42
  it's like he did. But also they were kind of happy
• 27:44
  with that because the graph was such a cunt.
• 27:46
  And so you get like a great building of of the background
• 27:50
  there. Doesn't that tell you everything
• 27:51
  you need to about know about the graph?
• 27:53
  Because I think he knows that. Secretly, he knows that, and yet
• 27:55
  he still wants to spend his whole life building an army to
• 27:59
  go back, overthrow his brother and and command those people
• 28:03
  again. It's a large one.
• 28:04
  Because the question for you is what?
• 28:06
  What? Why does the graph want Rebus?
• 28:10
  Because they talk about building an army, but is it just to have
• 28:13
  a base? He just wants a place to build
• 28:15
  that army. I think that's that's the a
• 28:18
  ruthless. Planet.
• 28:19
  Yeah. Because then then he finds out
• 28:21
  about the Jethrock and stuff. Or he thinks that that's the
• 28:23
  Jethrock. Maybe it's all sort of off the
• 28:25
  beaten path. It's a nice little hidey hoe,
• 28:27
  but near enough to the greater Ceridic Empire.
• 28:29
  After I feel, I just sort of feel really sorry for him, like
• 28:32
  he's got this really boring planet and he's trying to build
• 28:34
  an army but he's got no friends. It's just shellac.
• 28:37
  I mean, we're literally what, 18 minutes in?
• 28:39
  And this is where he learns that there's a Jethrock mine on the
• 28:42
  planet, so it doesn't really matter now.
• 28:44
  He wants the money he wants. The job.
• 28:46
  That's it. Now who wants to have to build
• 28:47
  this fleet? I mean, even this dialogue,
• 28:50
  mechalaffic mining subsidiaries, the exploitation of the planet,
• 28:54
  it just sounds convincing. Oh, it's lovely homes dialogue
• 28:58
  though, isn't it? It's just beautiful.
• 29:00
  This is because we talked about how we're in the image of the
• 29:02
  Fender, how Chris Belcher was a brilliant writer of dialogue and
• 29:06
  implying sort of, you know, lived inner lives for the
• 29:10
  characters. And Robert Holmes is sort of
• 29:12
  he's sort of the opposite. He's brilliant as well.
• 29:15
  But here's it's all kind of operatic and it's like, it's
• 29:18
  like these people live on the stage.
• 29:20
  You know, that's that's sort of. He's like the ultimate
• 29:23
  melodramaticist. Isn't it?
• 29:25
  Yes, exactly. That's it.
• 29:27
  They're still. Authentic.
• 29:28
  They're still believable. Yeah, they're just mental, these
• 29:31
  characters. Yeah, that's it.
• 29:33
  They're not like people I've met, but they're people, people
• 29:35
  that I love to spend time with. They're people you want to meet.
• 29:37
  Yeah, they people don't want to meet.
• 29:38
  Exactly. Look at her quoting
• 29:41
  Bartholomew's Gasolate or whatever it is.
• 29:45
  The doctor was like, oh please, you can't believe everything you
• 29:48
  read. It's funny because this scene
• 29:50
  because hang on, no, because Douglas Adams came in later,
• 29:53
  didn't he? He.
• 29:54
  Armageddon, yeah. Yeah, it was when he started to
• 29:56
  say because that that that Gazetteer and bowling stuff
• 29:59
  seems feels like it's it's Douglas Adams.
• 30:01
  I mean, he's around, right? He's doing he's.
• 30:03
  Around. He's a pirate planet.
• 30:04
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't imagine Holmes went to
• 30:07
  Douglas Adams. Could you just give my scripts
• 30:09
  to? One second quick little Polish
• 30:11
  on here, Douglas. Add anything that you want and
• 30:13
  that, but this relationship here.
• 30:15
  Yeah. Paul.
• 30:16
  See, man, I know he's on the the documentary and he says, you
• 30:21
  know, this role haunts him. Like, he's very proud to have
• 30:24
  been a Doctor Who. And he had great fun.
• 30:26
  But when he was directing House of Cards, they brought it into
• 30:30
  the rehearsal studios and everyone sat around watching
• 30:33
  this and laughing their heads off at him.
• 30:34
  But fuck, he goes for it, doesn't he?
• 30:36
  I know. And sometimes people, they do
• 30:38
  that thing, don't they? Whether it's like the fact that
• 30:40
  the Martin Clune's clip from Dance that always got pulled out
• 30:43
  on 90s clip shows, but he's a great performance.
• 30:46
  Like he's got nothing to be ashamed of.
• 30:48
  Perfectly. He's embarrassed though.
• 30:49
  I just think he's no, yeah. It was a laugh, you know?
• 30:52
  Yeah, it must be difficult, I say.
• 30:54
  I've interviewed various actors from Doctor Who who were like,
• 30:57
  yeah, it was just one role in a really long career like I.
• 31:01
  Do understand that? Yeah.
• 31:03
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially when they've done
• 31:05
  like, you know, crazy big things alongside.
• 31:08
  And then it's like, oh, that one, that one thing I did.
• 31:11
  Sheila Hancocks is particularly relevant.
• 31:13
  Look at will you look at my career, please.
• 31:16
  I've slapped a bit of makeup on in 88.
• 31:18
  All right, Yeah, that's. It I've done I've done other
• 31:20
  stuff but. We're at the end of episode 1
• 31:24
  nearly, aren't we? Again, Yeah, I am.
• 31:27
  That's right. So they're now look, they're
• 31:28
  honing in on the segment the Jeff, Rick.
• 31:31
  But all the stuff about didn't they teach you anything at The
• 31:33
  Academy Is is is wonderful as well.
• 31:36
  Just the way he treats her, the way she responds to him.
• 31:39
  It's a lovely don't wait because.
• 31:41
  Sleeping on duty is an offence. If we get caught, you can wake
• 31:44
  him up. Ohh boy.
• 31:48
  And I just, I just love all of these sets, all of the detail in
• 31:51
  this. There's a stained glass window
• 31:53
  in this set. Just little things like that.
• 31:54
  And you don't normally see it, Doctor.
• 31:56
  No, and I'll talk about it later on, but the way Spence and
• 31:58
  Foster it works with what's the word, the geography of of the
• 32:05
  sets. There's a bit where you get the
• 32:07
  doctor looking out a window at the people outside and then you
• 32:11
  get the people outside in a high angle shot so it looks like
• 32:13
  they've been seen from the window.
• 32:14
  And you're like, yes, that's really clever.
• 32:16
  You're really thinking this through.
• 32:18
  I mean, this is what, the top of a church, right?
• 32:20
  We're on the, the, the, the roof of a church.
• 32:22
  Yeah. You've got like the Spire.
• 32:24
  Yes. Snow covering all of the cement.
• 32:27
  So even the set doesn't look like it's made out of
• 32:29
  polystyrene because it's covered in snow.
• 32:31
  And because they've reused all these kind of the Russian
• 32:33
  outfits, they've got that sort of Byzantine Kremlin look for
• 32:37
  the Spires as well. It's, it's great.
• 32:39
  It all, it all works together. It all kind of matches up.
• 32:41
  It's so much better than whenever Williams does science
• 32:45
  fiction as the future, you know, because then you get the Sun
• 32:48
  Makers and it's a load of playing corridors.
• 32:51
  I'd rather watch this, yeah. And it looks lovely.
• 32:54
  Obviously a fake snow is always fake snow, but it looks nice.
• 32:59
  Or mine if I missed a bit where it comes out and goes tapping
• 33:02
  the mind into you. Into you.
• 33:05
  Well, you might as well finish it off.
• 33:07
  It goes wonderful now has he drugged him?
• 33:13
  I remember thinking that he'd like killed him the first time I
• 33:15
  watched this and been absolutely horrified because he's like my
• 33:17
  eyes and then just falls down. So what's the con?
• 33:21
  Explain the con to me. They they put the Jeffrey into
• 33:26
  the Crown room. Yeah.
• 33:27
  Just to so to make sure the graph sees it.
• 33:31
  And then he gives them a ton of money thinking that he's buying
• 33:34
  the the planet and the mine. Yeah.
• 33:36
  And then they go down, drug the Shrivensal, take the Jeffrey
• 33:40
  back and the money and hightail it off the planet.
• 33:43
  Exactly that. Yeah, yeah.
• 33:44
  Wonderful. Which is a lovely which is a
• 33:46
  great plot. This is a.
• 33:47
  Lovely. Who does hustle?
• 33:49
  Yeah, you just need slow motion scenes to people walking through
• 33:53
  the corridor. So.
• 33:54
  We'll be fine. And actually, if they did it
• 33:55
  now, yeah. Oh, that's exactly what they did
• 33:58
  in time, isn't it? And sort of a creature with two
• 34:02
  wibbly eyes that crushed people's heads or something.
• 34:07
  Oh, there's everyone's favorite Prentice Hancock.
• 34:09
  Prentice Hancock. I come here not to bury Prentice
• 34:12
  Hancock, I make Prentice Hancock.
• 34:15
  I mean, I certainly think this is one of his more successful
• 34:18
  roles in Doctor Who. Yes, definitely, absolutely.
• 34:20
  Now this this the the door dropping and the Doctor I when
• 34:25
  the doctors like sliding in the other way to grab the but the
• 34:28
  shrivens our drawers with the blood look great.
• 34:30
  I think that looks really good. And it cuts away quick.
• 34:32
  And it cuts. Away quick Exactly.
• 34:34
  So we're not sort of suffering through.
• 34:36
  But the thing, yeah, I've always found it restrains the doctor.
• 34:39
  That shot of him going under the door and that bit in Sharda that
• 34:43
  they really use for the Five Doctors where he looks like he's
• 34:46
  trying to slide under a fence or like under a gate.
• 34:48
  You know, I was like, what are you doing?
• 34:50
  I think I do. You know what, in in terms of
• 34:53
  action, I think Nathan might be right, like Spenton Foster, he
• 34:56
  just can't really direct the action.
• 34:58
  No. Most of that episode was just
• 35:00
  people talking and he can do that.
• 35:02
  And he can do that brilliantly. Yeah, now I've I've noted down
• 35:05
  the next Jimmy Purdy who does the lighting, I think does a
• 35:10
  great job all the way through and as we'll talk about it later
• 35:13
  on and the June Hudson for the costume design.
• 35:16
  Is this June on this one? June.
• 35:18
  I should have known. As soon as she came out in that
• 35:21
  chicken outfit, I should have known.
• 35:23
  We're in Blake 7 Series 2 territory there, aren't we?
• 35:25
  That's it. Yeah, exactly did.
• 35:27
  You notice that they all started wearing cocktail dresses and
• 35:30
  things. Generally, I think the actresses
• 35:33
  are like, what are we wearing? Are we supposed to be
• 35:36
  terrorists? Why do we are we going to to a
• 35:40
  policy?