Latest / Hope + Possibilities: Trust, Leadership + Strategic Foresight / Thought Leadership: Sponsorship, Celebrity and Influence in Canada

Transcript

Thought Leadership: Sponsorship, Celebrity and Influence in Canada · Hope + Possibilities: Trust, Leadership + Strategic Foresight

• 0:23
  Hi, I'm Nola Simon, and I'm the host of the Hope and BossAbilities podcast.
• 0:27
  And I'd like to revisit a topic I've mentioned before, which
• 0:30
  is about thought leadership.
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  I actually, One of my guests actually launched her podcast about
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  thought leadership in Keswick.
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  So unexpectedly, Keswick is actually a hotbed when it comes
• 0:42
  to thought leadership in Canada.
• 0:45
  So I am on record as being self-funded.
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  I don't accept sponsorship for the podcast, and quite honestly,
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  it's always been because
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  I'm concerned about how money, power, and influence are supporting views
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  and influencing people in ways that I might not intend and might not fully
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  understand at the time that it happens.
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  So I'll give you an example of that from a wider perspective.
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  Recently, OpenAI funded a, an influencer trip, and they invited all these really
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  top influencers who had huge followings on TikTok and Instagram, and they hosted
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  this at this farm, and the whole thing went down like a lead balloon because when
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  all of these influencers started talking about AI, there was massive pushback on,
• 1:44
  how AI impacts the environment, the irony of hosting it at a farm talking about,
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  the, the honey and the bees that are at the farm and really not talking about
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  the environmental impact possibility or likelihood related to AI and data centers.
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  And there was a massive amount of global pushback, mostly against the
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  individual creators, which really the source of the issue is actually the
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  company, not the individual creators.
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  But individual creators are an easier target.
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  And one woman in particular, actually, I didn't necessarily agree how she
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  handled it, but she did have a really good point, which was the majority
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  of people who got the, the pushback were women, in- especially her.
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  And it's fascinating to watch the language around how the money, the
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  power, and the influence surrounds AI and how that changes perceptions.
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  And so personally, I would never accept any kind of deal with any kind of AI,
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  but particularly American AI companies because I don't exactly know what their
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  relationships are with the government, and the administration hasn't necessarily
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  demonstrated that the way it's behaving is in the best interest of Canada.
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  So for me, I have concerns about accepting any kind of sponsorship
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  that's related to American companies or technologies that I don't fully yet
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  understand the long-term impact of.
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  My policy on sponsorship really directly influences my thought leadership because
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  I don't want to be restricted and tied to what I'm allowed to say, what I'm
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  allowed to investigate, what questions I'm allowed to ask, and that really
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  c- brings us back to academia, right?
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  Academics, when they write, they are associated with a university,
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  and so there is a hierarchy and a political influence that exists.
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  Yes, you're writing books, you're publishing it under your own name,
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  but if you are working for an institution and that institution is
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  associated with your name, there is
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  power and influence that goes along with that.
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  And so I find it very interesting the way that academics are actually
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  navigating their institutional ties and also the creator aspects of it.
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  An example that I was talking to somebody about today is Adam Grant.
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  He works for Wharton, but in his most recent book, he-- it's called Vibe.
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  It's coming out sometime soon.
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  I don't know what it, what is coming out.
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  But he did this with his last book where he hired or made a deal with
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  celebrities like Jennifer Garner to really come and talk to him, and
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  they would publish it as a podcast.
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  But she also attended events and helped him sell that book.
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  I don't know if she was paid.
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  You would assume that she would be.
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  She would negotiate that sh- there's a cost to her fees because she is a working
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  mom, and, she deserves to be paid just as much as Adam Grant gets to be paid
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  for his book and, the, the academic work that he does for his university.
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  But that's never disclosed.
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  That's never disclosed.
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  So the interesting thing about Adam is on social media, he
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  publishes a lot, but very rarely ever responds.
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  So I think I've been following his work for about eight years
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  now, and a lot of it I like.
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  Honestly I've learned a lot from watching how he operates, and
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  I'll give him his credits there.
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  But what I've noticed is over the years is he broadcasts, he doesn't respond.
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  And so it's interesting that, he started a community with
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  Threads and Instagram, I think.
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  But as I said to somebody, how do you have a community?
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  How do you call it a community if you're the only one talking?
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  And presumably members can talk to each other, but it's not like he's
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  facilitating conversation where he's individually hearing people.
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  And I can tell you for a fact I've tried for eight years to
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  have conversations with him.
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  I've tried to really reach out and ask him to reconsider things because, there
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  was particular topics that I thought his
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  short style really lost the nuance on.
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  And I tried to email him.
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  I tried to DM him on social media and I couldn't get anywhere in terms
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  of having that discussion with him.
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  So it was interesting this week because in the summer I had commented on one
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  of his posts about whether his book tour was actually gonna come to Canada,
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  and this week I commented and I said, "He still hasn't responded. I guess
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  he just doesn't vibe with Canada." And he actually responded and said he
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  loves Canada, but couldn't fit it in this tour, hopes to come next year.
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  So we thanked him.
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  But
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  It shouldn't take eight years to have some kind of productive
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  conversation with somebody who actually values what other people think.
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  So that's where it's when it comes to thought leadership, my personal view is,
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  obviously there's a parasocial aspect of what it's like to actually operate on
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  social media, but also to publish a book.
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  You publish a book, you don't know who's reading that.
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  They get it from the library.
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  You have no insight into who that person is.
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  So you're writing it with the idea of a reader in mind, but you
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  don't actually know who that is.
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  That reader knows a lot more about you than you ever know about them, and so
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  that's been the deal from the beginning.
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  Where social media changed it is people were able to speak up and have comment
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  and have conversations in ways that
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  Previously academics didn't open them up, up- themselves up to.
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  And it's almost a version of fame that is happening right now where
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  because he's courting celebrity and movie stars, and he's had a whole
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  bunch of famous people on his podcast, how does that change the audience?
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  How does that change your perception of his academic reputation?
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  And does that impact the quality of his research and how that's conveyed?
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  Because he's courting popularity, so is he… What is he sacrificing
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  in the name of acceptance?
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  And essentially what he's doing is he's trying to leverage the audience
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  of the celebrity, and the celebrity is trying to leverage his audience
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  to broaden their network as well too.
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  So again, everybody's getting a trade-off in terms of like money, in
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  terms of influence, in terms of power, and that comes at a price and a cost
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  with visibility and that parasocial relationship with an audience, right?
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  When it comes to me personally as a podcaster-
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  I actually don't know who listens to the podcast.
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  Most of the time when I've received a review on my podcast, it's somebody who's
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  been a guest on my podcast, somebody who I know, who I used to work with, who I've
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  had ongoing conversations with online.
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  I very rarely have received any kind of feedback from a general listener.
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  It's like pulling teeth to get input from somebody who's listened to the podcast.
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  And that's okay.
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  It's just you have to decide how that proceeds, right?
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  Do you stop asking for reviews?
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  Do you… I always wanna get questions because I don't
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  know what people are thinking.
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  If my thinking is resonating, what lands, what doesn't land.
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  It's like designing in the dark and talking to a void because
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  you don't have that interaction
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  This is where I'm really curious about how thought leadership is
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  actually going to develop in the age of AI because, like when I publish
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  a podcast, I'm publishing the audio, but I'm also publishing transcripts.
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  The transcripts then get, get scraped by AI, which means that
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  this is feeding and training AI.
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  Now, am I gonna stop because I don't wanna train AI?
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  Maybe one time.
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  I don't know how it's really gonna shake out.
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  I don't really know
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  How do you control that?
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  I don't know that you can control that.
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  So the only thing that you can do is really put out the best quality thought
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  that you can and hope that the people who are actually interacting with it at the
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  end of the line the actual people, not the bots that are interpreting it, recognize
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  the quality human thought behind it and, attribute that a- appropriately, and
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  it helps eventually build relationships and introduce me to networks I wouldn't
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  necessarily have access to otherwise.
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  That's the best case scenario I can think of.
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  I can think of probably all kinds of other negatives, but I don't wanna
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  spend a lot of time on the negatives because I can't control that.
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  The only thing I can control is what I can influence myself and the actions
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  that I take personally, and that really comes down to the day-to-day of what I
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  give my attention to, what I allow to influence me, and then how I synthesize
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  that and how I make my thoughts public, whether that's writing, whether that's
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  doing the podcast, whether that's, bringing it into a consulting engagement
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  with a client who wants to understand how will this influence the future.
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  And this is where thought leadership is about influencing the future.
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  You're building out a body of work, of course, and that
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  does actually build legacy.
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  But what you're really trying to do is influence the future
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  Because whoever listens to you, however reads you, they can take that idea that
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  you've expressed and then make decisions from that, and it builds out how either
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  they're going to behave, how they expect the employees in their company
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  to behave and how that then in turn allows them to function as a business,
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  and what social norms that influences.
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  All of this is in the name of the future.
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  And this is really what the changes that I'm seeing in thought
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  leadership are really interesting.
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  That celebrity aspect and bringing in celebrities, so celebrities are
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  now dominating podcasts, and you don't actually have journalists
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  interviewing stars about their movies, about authors about their books.
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  You have celebrities, so actors and actresses and people who
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  aren't trained professional interviewers asking the questions.
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  How does that really
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  Advance
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  the ideas and the concepts and the themes when the person interviewing
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  Is Softball.
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  They're not asking really hard questions like a trained
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  professional journalist would.
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  So I was actually proud this week.
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  I discovered… I didn't even know this chart existed, but there's a Goodpods
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  chart for investigative journalism, and I apparently rank on that chart.
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  Again, charts aren't the point.
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  The point is the questions that I ask are at the level being recognized
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  as investigative journalism.
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  That's important to me.
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  Now, do I think this chart influences much?
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  No.
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  But the fact that even the algorithm, because it is likely an algorithm that's
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  picking that up is associating me with investigative journalism, and there was
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  another chart that actually put me on the writing chart that's interesting
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  to me because that's a mirror of how I'm showing up and being perceived.
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  So I'm always on leadership charts.
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  I'm always on careers charts.
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  I'm always on management charts.
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  And again, the individual charts don't really matter, but it's
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  more about where does my work fit, especially as a futurist.
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  Futurism is, like, all aspects of work and life, so what box do you put that in?
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  It's a really challenging one to answer because, you're not a set industry.
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  You're not a set preconceived box.
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  You could be anywhere, right?
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  And so that's where charts are actually useful to me because it
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  lets me know how the work is actually being perceived and interpreted,
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  even at an algorithmic level, right?
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  And that, again, is important for knowing the influence that it possibly has, right?
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  And again, it comes down to who likely is listening and how they're
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  using the information presented, and what changes with that, right?
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  As a side I'm a big fan of George Michael.
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  Now, I love George Michael.
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  He is unfortunately dead.
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  He's been dead for 10 years.
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  One of the useful facts about that unfortunate fact is that
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  I know his story.
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  I know what his values were.
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  I know what he stood for.
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  It's not a moving target.
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  It's not like he wakes up one day and changes his mind about,
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  what his pol-politics are.
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  That's done because unfortunately he's deceased, and I miss him
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  intensely, but I know who he was, and that's not going to change.
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  He's not going- Need to evolve because his arc is done.
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  Now, I don't know everything obviously about George Michael's life.
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  He had a whole section of private life that isn't necessarily public.
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  But what is public, I am comfortable with what he stood for, and that's why I don't
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  actually introduce other pop culture icons because George Michael is safe to me.
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  I know what he stands for.
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  So I- that's a version of thought leadership.
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  I find this thing with Jennifer Garner that Adam Grant has
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  very interesting as well too.
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  It's like a fan girl experience that they're sharing with the world.
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  She's a fan of him, he's a fan of hers.
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  But it's an ongoing evolving relationship, and how does that change
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  as politics change, as values change?
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  Is it going to be a constant deepening relationship?
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  Which possibly it totally can be, and it could become its own viable
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  thing, and that's a beautiful thing.
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  It's the type of thing that makes me anxious because you're tying
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  your personal brands into something you don't fully understand.
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  But I see Adam also doing that with Brene Brown as well too.
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  Now, all of these people are American.
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  I don't see this sort of thing happening on Canadian podcasts
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  Is it a culture divide?
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  These are all questions that I have, and this is what I'm on an ongoing
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  journey to, to look at and understand.
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  And how does that tie into the world of work and how we work and how we live?
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  All of it is based in values, in trust, and identity, in who we all really are
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  and who we allow to influence how we make decisions, how our judgment is reflected
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  And really what we stand for.
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  What you consume is who you are, right?
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  And that includes thought leadership.
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  Anyways, I am always as interested in your thoughts.
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  I'll never stop asking.
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  I might fall off my chair in shock if anybody actually responds.
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  But I always will try to encourage it.
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  And I am experimenting with how this impacts on charts.
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  So if there is one action, if you don't feel comfortable doing a
• 19:30
  review or sending a question or anything like that, just subscribe.
• 19:34
  Whatever player you are on, just subscribe, 'cause apparently
• 19:37
  that can drive charts as well.
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  And, if you share it, if you save it, if you download it, also subscribe.
• 19:46
  All of that would be appreciated.
• 19:48
  Thank you so much.
• 19:49
  Hope it's helpful.