Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #200: Ultimate DIY Deer Hunter Panel Discussion

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Wired To Hunt Podcast #200: Ultimate DIY Deer Hunter Panel Discussion · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode number two hundred,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Yes to zero zero, and today we've got a show
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: that lives up to that big number as we've pulled
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: together three of the very best d I Y white
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: tail bow hunters I know for an in depth panel
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: discussion on what it takes to become a truly great
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: deer hunt. All right, folks, welcome to the Wired to
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sitka Gear, and today
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: is our two hundred episode. Um. Yeah, we I launched
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: the wire Hunt podcast. I think it was in the
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: spring of two thousand fourteen. So we're approaching our fourth
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: year and uh doing one episode a week and then
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: during the season doing two episodes a week. We've we've
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: slowly made our way to two hundred. So first and foremost, Dan,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with me for a lot of
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: those You've This has been fun. Yeah, dude, I didn't
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: realize what this was going to entail, and now that
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: you say four years, it makes me look back and
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: to h to the shed hunt that we had, right,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: and You're like, dude, I'm gonna start a podcast. Do
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: you want to be the co host? And I'm like, yeah,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I'll do that. And here we are today. A lot
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: has changed. Huh, that's right, A lot has changed. Yeah.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: And um, when we had our one hundredth episode, and
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: this is a couple of years ago, I guess for
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: that episode, we did a panel discussion with three different
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: kind of big name deer hunters. So we had Leilakowski
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: from The Crush TV, we had Dr Grant Woods from
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Growing Deer TV, and we had Bill Winkie from Midwest
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: White Tail. And my idea for that podcast what we
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: did was we had all three of them on and
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: then I asked them a handful of of really you know,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: sometimes often debated questions related deer hunting, and then got
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: the three of them to offer all their own perspectives
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: and debate a little bit on all those things. And
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: that turned out to be a pretty cool one. So
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I thought, now, fast forward another hundred episodes later to
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: do something similar. So today we're gonna do another panel discussion,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: but instead of having a bunch of big name deer hunters.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I wanted to get together a collection of some of
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: the very best deer hunters that fly under the radar.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: So today we've got three absolute killer d I Y
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: deer hunters that are going to answer some of the
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: same questions that we asked the guys back an episode
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: one hundred, but we're gonna get a d I Y perspective,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: and then I'm also gonna ask you know, We're gonna
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: get some different questions in there too that are relevant
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: to the way these guys hunt. But all three of
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: these guys hunt a lot of heavily pressured ground, they
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: hunt public ground, um, they hunt stuff, they got permission
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: on small pieces, public pieces, and they do it the
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: way that you know, all the rest of us are
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: trying to do it as well. So I think it's
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: gonna be very interesting, very relatable. And so who we've
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: gotten the show here, Dan are two guys who have
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: been on the podcast in the past and one new guest.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: So we have Andy May with us again. And uh
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Andy joined us down in New Orleans for our live
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: podcast at the Quality Deer Management Association Convention this past summer.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: So and he's back and he's one of the very
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: best hunters I know. Definitely one of the very best
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: hunters in Michigan I know of. Um, so he's back.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: And then we've got Joe L. Singer, who is out
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: in your home state, Dan, out in Iowa. He joined
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: us last spring, I think, and that was a really
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: really great conversation, so I'm excited to pick his brain more.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: And then finally, we're also gonna be joined by a
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: guy by the name of Jesse Coots and he comes
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: from New York. So we've got guys from all across
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: the country and they've also all hunted in a lot
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: of other states too, so they're gonna bring a lot
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: of different perspectives, a lot of different ideas, and generally
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: I'm just really stoked for this conversation. Um. But before
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: we get those guys on, we have another exciting thing
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: to talk about on episode two hundred. And it's kind
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: of cool that this falls on the two episode because
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a special episode for a lot of reasons. Um, Dan,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I'm a dad, You're a dad, dude, it happened. I
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: think I think the dynamic of this entire podcast is
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: going to change now because you you know how, especially
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: when it comes to I think it's perfect right we
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: have last on the hundredth episode, we had the big
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: names on, right, and not a lot of people can
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: late to how those they hunt. But now we have
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: these three guys on who are the d I Y.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: You know, they're just like me and you. They have
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: full time jobs, right, they go out and they're on
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: public ground or permission private and they go you know,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: the grinders, right and and and it's kind of relatable
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: in a way because now you're going to slowly start
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: relating to what I'm going through as a dad with
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: a kid of your own. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: stuff is coming full circle. Um. If for anyone who's
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: followed this podcast since the beginning, I think it has
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: been an interesting evolution to see you and me, um,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: you know, grow as deer hunters from two thousand and
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: fourteen till now and then also now following us as
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: we've each started our own families and how that's changing things. Um.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: We've got to document that a lot over the past
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: few years with you, and now that begins with me. Um.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Hopefully it's gonna be a good thing. Potentially everyone's gonna
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: stop listening because they hate here just talk about kids.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: We had. We had someone slammed the kid talk again
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: on an iTunes review, So it's only gonna get worse.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: But um, but all joking aside. It's it's something that
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of people go through, right, I mean, this
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: is part of life for a lot of people. And
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna live it and we're gonna share it.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: And uh yeah, man, Uh two weeks early, my little
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: guy came two weeks early. His name is Everett Daniel Kenyon.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: And uh I know he as much as I love you, buddy,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: we didn't name him after you, but but we'll let
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: you believe that because he's named after his uh his grandpa.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: My wife's dad's name is dan Um. But yeah, man,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: from from here on out, you can you can treat
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: him like he's named after you and spoil him and
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: take him honey on all your Iowa properties. Please right,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: help this off? Would you be if I like, when
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: he starts getting old enough to hunt by himself, I
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: give him an open invitation on the property that and
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: not you. He starts laying down like one fifties, you know,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: his first couple of years of hunting and you're like, hey, man,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I'm here if you need me. That's that's probably what's
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: gonna happen. But i'd be I'd be happy for him, right,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I got I got a couple of questions for you.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're living this, you're living this dad life now,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: and we're kind of man, only a month apart from
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: my youngest, a couple of months apart from my youngest
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: to your you know, I got a I got a
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: four month old and you have basically a newborn. And
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: uh so, what I want to know is, was is
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: having another human life in you, in your life that
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: you're one responsible for? Like this? Was it as big
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: of a shock as you thought it was gonna be? Yeah? Man,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I mean everyone tells you like your whole life changes
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and in a manner of seconds, you're gonna everything else
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: won't matter as much, and all this stuff. You know,
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  Speaker 1: you've been telling me these things forever and everybody else
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: has been telling me them, and I'm always like yeah, yeah, yeah, um,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: but it is amazing. As soon as he as soon
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: as it all happened and he showed up, Um, everything
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: does change, and it I mean, my whole, my whole
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: world has changed I mean how I live my life
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: already in the last two weeks has changed. What I
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: worry about has changed overnight. Um. The things I'm excited
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: about are looking forward to have changed. So yeah, no
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: doubt about it. Stuff is different. It's awesome. UM. I
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: still feel pretty confident that I'm gonna be able to
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: continue enjoy all the same things we did in the past, um,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: but just in a different way probably. Um. And I'm
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: just so excited to share all those things with him now. UM.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: So I'm rediscovering sleep. For a while, I lost it.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: But we're figure and not a system, so I'm sleeping again. Um.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I'm slowly starting to feel comfortable. For a long time,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: I was like in NonStop paranoia, like is he breathing?
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Is he okay? Is this okay? Is that okay? Um?
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: So we're starting to figure that out a little bit. Um.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: He's super stink and cute. I always You know, when
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: you and me went on our eltcutting trip, I don't know,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: it's like two or three years ago. Now, like the
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: first day or second day, you were already like talking
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: about how much you missed your your daughter, um and
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: all that stuff, And I was like, oh man, he's
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: just been gone for two or three days, like man
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: up Dan. But but I can already like see, like
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: I've already mentioned a kaya like, man, I can already imagine,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: like when I'm taking off on my trips, how much
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna miss him, because I already, like I work
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: in my office for like an hour or two and
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: then I'm like, I just gotta go out and see
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: him for a little bit. Um, So it's pretty it's
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: pretty special. I'm excited for a lot of cool stuff
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: to come. And uh, he's awesome. He's just he's awesome,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: is my little buddy, and uh, everything is different now. Absolutely,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, Man, there's gonna be a shift someday.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: And I've I've I keep after telling you know, I
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I have to keep telling myself that as frustrating as
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: kids are and as much as they pish you off
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: and cock block you and uh like like all these things,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: that you'll look back someday ten fifty years from now
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and wish that you still you know, like you could
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: go back and relive those days. And um, I haven't
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: necessarily hit I don't think those days yet, just because
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: my family is still in the growing stage. Well, hopefully
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: we're done growing but uh, you know, but um, there's
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: ways to ensure that, you know, Dan, oh do like
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I gotta get some of those nine figure chronicle checks
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: coming in, and I can guarantee you that when they do,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: oh it's snippy. Oh, Dan Johnson, Yeah, I think that's
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: probably good idea. Man. Otherwise I worry you're gonna have
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: like the Brady Bunch pretty soon. I wouldn't worry about it,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: like we like me and Mark had this discussion before
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: uh we started recording about quote unquote getting action him
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: him post baby and me with three kids, and like,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: right now in my life, I don't have to worry
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: about getting my wife pregnant again. Yeah, I guess the
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: new new phase in life. Uh yeah, man, I I've
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: caught myself already, like you know, wishing I can't wait
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: till he can walk around, or I can't wait till
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I can take him hunting, or can't wait till he
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: can hold his head up on his own. But then
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: I also need to remind myself just enjoy the right now,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: you know, just enjoy this moment because everyone, everybody tells
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: you it goes by so fast you're gonna blank in
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: one day. They're growing up and gone. So I'm gonna
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: try to do a good job of just soaking in
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: right now, enjoying who he is right at this moment
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: and all these little moments. And uh, and that's pretty
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: special in its own So I got a lot to learn. That,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: that's for sure. We all do. It's it's continuous, continuous
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: learning to it never really stops. And I will say
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: one other thing, and um, you know, we we talked
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: about this a lot, and I think it's just I
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: can already feel it mattering more now, and that being
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: the responsibility we hold as hunters and making sure that
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: this way of life is still around, that there are
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: still wildlife and wild places, public lands, healthy you know, ecosystems,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: clean air, clean water, all that kind of stuff that
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: we've talked about that matters so much. Well, now that
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: there's a little guy here that I'm responsible for and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: that you know, is going to be around here hopefully
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: long after I'm gone, I'm just like thinking about that
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: stuff even more, Like I need to make sure that
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: that I leave a place that's better for him and
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: not worse. Um, So I can see that is only
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: going to grow in my in my in my mind,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I guess as the years progress. So so if there's
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: anything that people can expect to hear more of in
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: the coming months and years, They're gonna hear more kids stories.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: They're gonna hear uh, They're gonna hear more about how
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: important it is to protect our way of life and
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: our wildlife and our places. Um and they're going to
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: hear more about bad reviews on iTunes about our kid talks.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: So there's all that to look forward to. Well, I
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: tell you what I mean. It's it's also a little
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: bit about like a thought process change, right when I
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: you know, back in the day, you know, I used
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: to be all about big antlers, right, Oh, big antlers
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: is is what matters? Well, I think we need to
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: change that. And I know I've changed on it. I mean,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it we the hunting industry, the
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: hunters in this community needs to change and stop putting.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe this is coming out of left field,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: but like we have to. We have to change the
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: way we think about how we look at success and
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: and and I think that needs to be changed, uh,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: first and foremost before we try to do anything else
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: because it's gonna be a tough battle when we're trying
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: to get other people into hunting and all they see
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: is giant bucks being killed and they don't wanna. They
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: don't want to go out and do it because just
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: like the youth today, unless it's easy, they don't want
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: to do it. Yeah. Or on the other hand, if
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: people just hear about all these deer hunters talk about
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: is how they're trying to kill this trophy buck, trophy
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: of this trophy that I think that turns off a
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: lot of people too, because the the uh, the perception
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: of what quote unquote trophy hunting is or means is
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: something most non hunters are pretty turned off by. So
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: if we're trying to grow the hunting community, trophy hunting
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: is definitely not a message is going to resonate with them. Um. Now,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: how people define trophy hunting, of course, is very different. Um,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: but I think your point is well heard. For me,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: it's always been and this could be like a half
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: hour discussion, so I'm gon try not to get too
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: far to this, But for me as a deer hunter,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: it's always been I'm very goal oriented. UM, So I
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: always like to push myself to achieve something or to
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: strive for something difference in so you know, sometimes that's
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: been like an Antler score. Sometimes that's been an age,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: sometimes that's been just an experience. Um. But I think
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: having goals that's not a bad thing. Um But I think,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: you know, pinning everything just on an arbitrary inch amount
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: or something like that and determine the worth of a
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: hunt or the worth of a deer or something like
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: that just by a score, that does seem to really
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: take a lot out of it. Um. So you know,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I'm never gonna hate on someone who pays attention to
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: that stuff, because I do pay attention to it. But
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: there's a lot, there's so so much more to it,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: and we need to at least I personally feel like
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: it's important for myself too to celebrate all the aspects
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: of it, because you're absolutely right. I think that too
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: much of an obsession with that which there certainly is
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: is not a good thing for the future of deer hunting.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: And I think even for just for enjoyment of it,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: I think it can be pretty negative to So it's
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: it's finding that balance, right and um, enjoying all aspects
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: of hunting, respecting and respecting all aspects of the hunt.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: And um, you know the quote unquote big deer that
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: will come if you if you focus on all these
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: other details and try to do things the right way,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: you'll have that kind of success. That that's what you're
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: looking for. Absolutely. Man, Let's see here, I got a
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: question for you, right, I mean, how much time do
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: we have left before we gotta cut it? I don't know.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I mean people people listening might be saying no, none,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: But what do you gotta ask me? And we'll see
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: how far we can go? Right, that's a big number. Okay,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of podcasts. Do you have any that
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: stick out in your mind that are just like, oh, man,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: this is one of my favorite ones and I could
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I could go back and listen to it over and over. Um. Well,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: you know, I think the Shane Mahoney episode will always
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: be one of my favorites because he's just a legend, um,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: a guy I could listen to talk for hours, and
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: in that conversation was just a topic that I'm always
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: fascinated by. You know. We talked about, um, the history
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: of hunting in North America and kind of our ancestors,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: and then the history of like conservation and hunters and
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: public lands and all of that, um, you know, in
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: the nineteen hundreds. That was fascinating. And then he also
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: talked about the future of hunting and what we need
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: to be thinking about as far as how we represent ourselves, um,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: how we communicate about hunting, and those are all things
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: that are kind of near and dear to my heart,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: and Shame just does such a great job of verbalizing
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: all that. So so that's definitely a favorite. Um you know.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: The Mark Jury episode, episode number sixty three that still
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: stands out is just like, I don't know, he's so
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: succinctly spoke to so many different little topics related to
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: deer hunting in the details of you know, the things
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: he's seen that drive deer activity and different stuff that
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I just geek out about. So many people have loved
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: that one too. That's still a personal favorite of mine,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: and in market is just a wealth of information. I
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: always enjoy hearing from him. He's got a great name
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: to um ah what else? What else? What else? Um?
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know, those two stand out, you know, the
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: one we had our while I had my wife and
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: then my Buddy Corey's wife on that was a funny
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: one way back in the first year, right, I don't know,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: these are the ones that are popping up in my mind.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Anything for you that stands out. So I was, I
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: was scrolling through the episodes today and I'm gonna go
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: all the way back to episode number twelve, okay, and
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: that's the life of a white Tailed bum. And it's
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: basically just a topic about you know, how guys like
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: us are just in it sixty five days a year, right,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's all we think about, that's all we
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: care about. And um, I I think everybody should go
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: back to that episode and and check that out. It's
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: only like twenty eight minutes. That was a short one,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: but it was kind of a neat, neat, little look
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: at the life of a crazy people like you and me,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: um and our listeners. That's like, that's a good one
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: from way back, way back. That's a way back episode,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: you know. I think there if you haven't went back
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: and listened to some of the old episodes, there really
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: is some some good stuff. Now, you and me, we
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: probably sounded like bumbling idiots, but I think we had
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: some quality content from guests I mean, we had a
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: great episode from Jeff Sturgis on food plots, Um, the
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: original Dan in Fault Interview episode number three that was
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: packed with good stuff. Um, we had all good Jeff
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Danker episode, there was Craig Doherty had a good episode
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: with him talking about both habitat management and hunting. Um. Yeah,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: you know, we've just been fortunate to be able to
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: talk to a lot of interesting people and it's been
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: cool to to be able to have all these conversations,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: and also you and me get to benefit from it.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: You know, I think we've both grown as deer Hunter
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: has become hopefully you know, a lot better. It hasn't
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: always translated into more filled tags, but I definitely feel
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: like a more accomplished, uh more well rounded hunter. Um.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: And I know that that you know, not every year,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: but most years translates to actual meeting the freezer. So
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: it's just exciting to see where things are going to go.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Exciting stuff. And I tell you what, as much as
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I love having the guests on this on this podcast,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: you know, the listener gets a lot of great content
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: out of that. But from an author standpoint, I gotta
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: love just the bullshit sessions that we do. It's just
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: me and you because I don't know. I just I
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: love to talk about deer. Uh And I don't know, man,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: it's uh that on top of I'll tell you what,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: and I I owe you a big thank you for
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: number one, you know, back at that shout hunt asking
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: me to be a part of this. Uh, I love
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: And I know I don't get to hop on absolutely
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: every episode just because of scheduling conflicts with you know,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: three kids and work and whatnot. But I love talking
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: about deer, and I just I don't know. I I'm
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: thankful that I gotta be a part of this and
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: it's it's helped me with you know, the nine fingers
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: and all nine finger chronicles and all that stuff. So
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I owe you a big thank you. O A man,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: you are very welcome and I appreciate you being a
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: part of this too. And you've brought a really you
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: brought a one of a kind thing to the show
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: that nobody else could. And for that, didn't I see
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: a didn't I see like an application out there for
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: you know, co hosting. Nope, Nope, that is a job
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: bumpening that we will not be feeling. Hopefully, yeah, I
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: think you're locked in as long as your hearts still
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: ticking and you're willing to do it, I think you're
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: stuck um b Essen with me every week for the
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: rest of our lives. Stand. So, so there you go,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: and we probably should wrap this up because I think
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: our conversation with our guests is gonna be a long one.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: So I suppose though for two two hundredth episode, it
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: should be expected that it will be a long one,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: but it will be five of us on this, so
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be a lot of voices, a lot of ideas,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of different perspectives. And uh, I think that
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: is probably fitting for the Wired Hump podcas test. Herewisodes in,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: So Dan, let's take a quick break for our sick
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Gear store of the day, and then we will get Joe,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Andy and Jesse on the line. For this week's Sita story.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: We're joined by Sitka ambassador Kyle Hansen, who tells us
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: about getting his first turkey with a bow. Alright, spring
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: of two thousand seventeen, I decided that I wanted to
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: try and get my first ever spring turkey with a bow.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Having just picked up the bow a couple of months
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: prior I decided that it was going to be bow
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: or bust. I figured I was going to have to
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: hunt from start to finish to this season and most
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: likely go home empty handed as I've done before, with
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: a shotgun. On day two in the field, I ended
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: up arrowing my first tom ever. He came into the
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: field at about seven am with some hems and started
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: his way over to me. When he reached thirty yards
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: my maximum effective range on that day, I let one fly,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: hitting him square and finishing with one lethal shot, and
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: just like that, my Spring Turkey season was wrapped on Kyle.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: So he was wearing sick as Fanatic hoodie. If you'd
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: like to create a sick of story of your own,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: or to learn more about Sitka's technical hunting apparel, visit
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: sitka gear dot com. All right, and and real quick
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: here before we get to this interview, I just have
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: to say that pulling off a five person conference call
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: podcast interview over the internet, uh, it's it's a little tricky.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: And I unfortunately I'm telling you this because we had
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: some technical difficulties with this one. And someday, if the
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: stars aligned and I make it big and I all
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: of a sudden have the funds to to fly everybody
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: in here in person to do these interviews here. That
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: will make things a lot easier. That'd be really nice.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: But until then, I'm gonna have to keep hillbilly rigging
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: it like I am right now and do this across
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: phone lines and the internet. And so what happens here,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: unfortunately is that Dan got dropped off the line mysteriously.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: So so Dan's gone. And then we also have some
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: weird little audio issues, some weird noises occasionally, some weird
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: clicks and pops. Um, it's a little it might be
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: just a touch distracting at times, but it won't be
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: so bad that you can't take in all of the
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: information and good stuff that these guys have to offer.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: And Manna, the perspectives that these three hunters share I
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: enjoyed so much. I really do think everyone can learn
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: something from these guys in this conversation. So I'm really
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: excited for you to enjoy it. So apologies again for
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: a little bit of these audio issues. Thanks to your patients,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: and enough of me. Let's get right to it alright
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: with us now on the line is all sorts of
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: people we have got Joe l singer Andy may and
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Jesse Coots. And I'm not going to ask them each
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: to introduce themselves. I'm actually gonna try to throw things
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: around here a little bit since we're doing this panel discussion,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: and since it's all kind of started from an idea
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: that my buddy Andy had, I want Andy to kick
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: us off here, because Mr Mayor, you had this idea
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: of putting together these d I Y deer hunter profiles,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: and you went out and found these different guys that
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: are just tremendous deer hunters from across the country that
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: do it the hard way, and you went out and
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: you interviewed them and you put together these great blog
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: posts for us. And so that's kind of why we're
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: here now today because all three of you guys on
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: the line now have been a part of that profile series.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: And Andy, since you found a lot of these guys,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: are knew a lot of these guys. I was hoping
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: you could just introduce us briefly, uh, to who else
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: we have on the line here, to Joe and Jesse.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: So can you give us a quick cliff notes on
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: who Joe is and then who Jesse is? Yeah? Oh man,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: these two guys I'll tell you Joe L. Singer, Um,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: he uh frequent a forum called The Hunting Beasts that
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I also get on once in a while. And I
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: think everybody knows you know, the Hunting Beasts. Well, it's
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: known for being a group of hardcore hunters, mostly d
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: I Y type hunters. Lots of public land, lots of
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: high pressured private land. Um, you know, just the hardcore
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: guys that just live and breathe this stuff. And um,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Joe is uh, I mean he's a standout over there. Um.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Just his experience and his knowledge of white tails, um,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: and just how far he takes his his scouting and
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: his preparation. Um. I mean it's it's unmatched. It actually
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: blows my mind. And and I I put in a
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: lot of time. Um, and you know, Joe just he
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: he doesn't leave anything to chance, you know, I mean
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: he he makes his own success. And it just kind
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: of blows my mind every year how successful he is.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I mean two three, you know, sometimes four bucks a year, Um,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: you know, doing it the hard way, and just a
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: guy I really look up to you. Um, he's inspiring. Um.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And you know, switching over to Jesse, I same thing
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I met Jesse through another forum many years ago, and Uh,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I messaged him because he had a four bucks season,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: and I remember a comment that he wrote and said,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: you know he was able to kill his last four
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: target bucks on the first day of the season. There's
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: there's something along those lines. I was like, Man, I
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: gotta I gotta pick this guy's brain. So I messaged
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: him and uh, we kind of hit it off and
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: we've been buddies ever since. Um. And Jesse is one
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: of those guys that I mean, he's as hardcore as
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: like Um. He doesn't it doesn't matter if it's white tail, um,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: elk mule deer. I mean, if he goes somewhere, uh
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: there's an animals gonna die, it's gonna be a good one.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: And he's just, I mean, one of the most efficient killers,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: if not the most efficient killer that I know. I mean,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: he's he's like me, he's got kids. Um doesn't get
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: a ton of time out in the woods, but he
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: gets it done every single year on multiple animals and uh,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: with very little time spent in the woods. So now
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: that Andy has fluffed you guys up really nicely, Um, Joe, Joe,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: do you want to give your perspective on Andy since
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: you had done his intro for the d I Y
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Deer Hunter profile and website. Yeah, I'd be happy to um.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: First of all, he's making me blushed a little bit.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: That's not very nice. But uh yeah, I mean Andy
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: and I have known each other kind of you through
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the Hunting Beast forum, and we've got to know each
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: other a little bit outside of that, um lately. And
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: he I've I've watched him for years and and he's
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: one of those guys that he makes it look easy
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: and everybody knows it's not easy. Um. But and he
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: would freely admit it's not easy for him to do it,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: but he finds success um so quickly that it almost
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: seems like wow, you know, like he's not even trying.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: But behind the scenes, there's no one really more hardcore
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: than Andy. Um. He he lives breathe hunting, particularly deer hunting.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: UM s five days a year, so and that's what
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: it takes to get done. He's always thinking, for thinking
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: about an angle, thinking about a buck, thinking about a
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: way to you know, to get in and get the
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: job done. So and that that starts the day after
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: he killed a buck. The last season, I think, so, um,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: it's pretty impressive. Um. And I'm I have to say,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty pretty honored to be considered a guest with
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: these two guys, because, uh, I mean, I'm just an
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Iowa farm kids, so I freely admit that, Um, I
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: live in a target rich environment. You know, I take
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: pride in the detailed hunter, but I live in a
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: target rich environment compared to out eastern Michigan. So UM,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to hearing what they have to say,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: that's for sure. Yeah. And if you feel humbled to
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: be in this company, imagine me who hasn't done anything
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: compared to you guys. And and Dan was so intimidated
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: by the three of you that he just dropped off
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: the call. So so so the way, it's not redheaded
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: joke the whole time, exactly. He can't defend himself and
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: what I want to do from here. Then it's kind
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: of approached this like a panel discussion. So I'm gonna
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: ask a question and then I'm appointed to one of
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: you and get your thoughts, and we'll just go down
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: the line and you guys can give your own perspectives
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: or you can, you know, disagree with what the other
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: people said or add on whatever you want, and we'll
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: kind of trying to move through a bunch of questions
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: relatively rapid fire style to cover as many different topics
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: as we can. UM. But if there's something where you guys,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: you know, really vehemently want to argue something out, feel
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: free to do that. UM. But these are some questions
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: that I think will be particularly relevant to you guys
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: and how you hunt. And then there's also some questions
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: here that I asked back on our episode when we
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: did our last panel discussion, and our last panel discussion
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: was with Bill Winky, Dr Grant Woods, and Lee Lakowski.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: So those three guys answered some of these questions and
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: they duked it out between themselves, and now I want
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: to ask some of the same questions to you guys
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: and have you duke it out, and then it'll be
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: kind of interesting to see how your three perspectives compared
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: to their three perspectives, kind of the our big name
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: TV folks under the radar, d I y deer hunter folks,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: and I think it's an interesting comparison. So that's kind
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: of what we're gonna do. And the first question, though,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I want to say we're to send to Jesse and
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: it's this, Jesse, I want to know for you, what's
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: more important? Is it scouting or the actual hunts? Give
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: me an answer and why sounds good? Mark, and I'll
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: just touch base on what Joe said. I'm honored to
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: be a part of these, uh the panels, So thanks
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: for having me, man um U. That's that's kind of
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: a no brainer. I think any serious guys um is
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna go ahead. I would think and say
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: scouting is the name of the game. It's kind of like, uh,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: you know, training as a wrestler. If if you skip
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: your whole training season and go right to your first match,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: you're gonna get pummeled. If you train all preseason and
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: going to your first match, you're you're going to walk
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: through it. And bow hunting is no different. You've you've
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: got to take your scouting serious, not just riding out
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: on a forworler, but really using your head and and scouting.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: And I think every state has a different scouting technique,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: so you've got to take that type of thing into account. Yeah,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: scouting is the name of the game. In my books,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I scout probably eight of the time and the time. Okay, Joe,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: what would you add? Yeah? I couldn't agree more. Um,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Yet I put it this way, scouting season is three
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: sixty five days a year in season. Out of season,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: you can scout. Um. Other than you know, you know
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: some some public areas don't let you on. Other than
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: certain times, you still cyber scout. You can think about stuff,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: you can look at old patterns of Vultario camp photos.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: That's all scouting in my book. Um. You know, hunting season, yeah,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: I might be a couple of months long, but still
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: scouting seasons a lot longer. And uh, you really have
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: to enjoy scouting, I guess to enjoy the success of
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: kind of the d I Y style. Um, I think
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: that's really important. Yet you know, everybody that I talked
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: to the it is fairly successful to doing it themselves.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: They love to scout like scouting is just as fun,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: if not more fun than the actual hunt. Um. And
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: that helps you get out there, you know, week after week.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: So that's what I think. All right, and Andy, how
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: would you how would you approach this this question? Yeah,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I mean I hate to sound repetitive, but I mean
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: it's absolutely scouting. I mean, that's that's your preparation, you know,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: that's how you figure out, you know, what deer are there,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: what deer you're gonna go after. Um, you know, you're
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: trying to, you know, find out tendencies that you know,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: maybe individual deer have and and plan for a kill.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I mean I'd rather, I'd rather, um, be able to
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: scout fifty days and hunt ten days rather than be
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: able to hunt every day of the season. I mean,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be more successful with those fifty days of scouting.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: In fact, like I remember, uh gosh, I think it
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: was that a few years ago Jesse. I think he
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: killed like three or four bucks, the big mature bucks,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: like big you know, poping young plus type deer on
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: nine sits, you know. And then a couple of years
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: ago I killed six open young bucks on nineteen sis.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: And you know, we we both have, you know, and
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: and and Joe too, you know, you you have you
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: got families with kids. I mean, we don't want to
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: be gone the whole hunting season. I mean that's it's selfish, um,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: you know, for us to kind of you know, chase
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: our dreams per se. Uh So you know, we we
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: spread it out over the year. And we prepare, um,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: you know, just through scouting, and it is it's a
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: year round deal. There's something you can do every month
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: of the year that's going to help you in the fall.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: And to add to that, if I may, yeah, go ahead,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: I was just gonna say that. To add to that,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: the scouting is so much easier when you're going hunting.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: You have to be out early, you have to get
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: in ahead of time. You've you've got to be sneaky
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: when you're scouting. You are, at least for me, Um,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: I can jog out to a couple of different places
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: glass in the last half hour light and see everything
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I need to see. I can be up way before
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: I have to go to work, um and do all
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: my glassing and then still be to work and and
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: only glass for a half an hour. You can do
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: that every day. UM. So it's not a huge investment
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: um of time. So you know, And and that's how
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: you can do it in different states. To you if
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: you get it figured out, even if you can only
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: go scout a state for three or four days, UM,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: it's those crucial first half hour, last half hour, you
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: can all your connaissance. It's not a big investment of time. Yeah, yeah,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: that's that's that's absolutely true. The flexibility that is key
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: with you know, I got two little kids too, so um,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: you know, and family obligations, they take precedence over hunting.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I'm extraordinarily you know, I'm very passionate about hunting, but
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: um being able to get out you know, Oh, I
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: got two hours, Okay, I want to hit you know
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: that public area that I've been meeting to scout, you know, um,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: or you block out like I like to hunt up
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: and kind of northern Wisconsin to block out one three
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: day weekend. That's what I get in the spring for
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: scouting up their boots on the ground. Everything else has
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: to be remote, you know. But it's flexible. I picked
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: the weekend, you know. Yeah, And I gotta admit I
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: kind of knew that you guys were gonna give me
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: this answer some I've been leading you and and given
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: that's the case when I'm when I'm most interested, because
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: I knew that you guys are so obsessive with scouting,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: and because I kind of I'm guessing that's what really
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: sets you guys apart um. What I'm really interested in
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: is the detail how you actually scout I think when
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: most people think scouting, they think, oh, you know, a
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: guy walks through the woods a couple of times, see
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: some rubs, see some scrapes, sets a stand there, or
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: something that's kind of like your generic entry, entry level
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: scouting session. Um, Andy, can you start us out by
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: describing in detail how to scout like an expert? Like
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: how to do that next level scouting? What is the
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: scouting that you do that is making you so disproportionately
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: successful compared to the guy that just goes out and
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: and looks at some rubs and scrapes a couple of times.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Oh man, Um, it's kind of hard to narrow that
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: down to you know, a short time frame, and you
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: could write a book on it. But um, like Joe said,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: it's a year round thing. So um, you know, right
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: after the season starts. I'm sorry, right after the season
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: ends is a great time to to start. You know.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: January for Michigan. Um, you know, I'll get right out
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: there when there's still snow the season just ended, and
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: I'll I'll walk all my hunting areas. You know, I'm
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: looking for winter bending with winter betting. Um. You know,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: travel routes like to food sources, you know, kind of
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: monitoring what what the crop rotations were, UM, trying to
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: find books that survives that you know, I might be
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: able to chase next year and zone in on um
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: and all that to relate you know, the future late
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: season hunting. UM. You know that's for me, that's a
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: really important time frame because I don't I don't want
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: to be a a rut guy, you know, and I
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: don't want to be just an early season guy. I
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: want to be able to be effective all year round.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: So I mean, you can't beat right when the season
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: is done, you know, you get that that most recent information.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Most guys kind of hang it up for a while,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: but you gotta get right back out there and you
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: can get some information. So you know, when the snow melts.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: For me, um, I get right out there. UM, you
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: know I'm looking for that's when all the sign is
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: like still really visible. You know, it's four green up
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: every trail, every skate scrape, every rub um. You know,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: the beds are are very visible. You know. That's when
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: I'm looking for like individual buck beds. I'm looking for
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: go bedding, um, you know, intersecting trails, scrapes, rud concentrations
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: all that stuff, and I'm just trying to um, you know,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: put all the puzzle pieces together for like more uh
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: effective rut sits you know, in for the next fall,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: and I try to find a lot of them so
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: that you know, I can fill up a hole, you know,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: if I get you know, ten sits during the rud
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: or you know, six sits. I want. I want high,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: high percentage spots, so you know, I'm looking for the
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: best of the best type spot within the spot. Um.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: You know, those really good spots where you have a
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: lot of things going on that are in your favor um.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: You know. And then I go, you know, like kind
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: of May and June, UM, you know, I tone it back.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of fans of time. I start really
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: hammering my archery at that time, getting dialed in UM.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: And then you know, once you know, kind of summer
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: comes August, September, that's when I'm I'm trying to find those,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: you know, trying to find those early season patterns a
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: buck to go after early in the season. UM. You know,
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: So I'm running some trail cameras, I'm doing a lot
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: of glassing, UM checking fields for you know, large tracks
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: that sort of thing, Um, And what I mentioned before
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: it was, you know, I think Joe has a similar strategy.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: But I try to find you know, five or six
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: bucks in Michigan to go after, because you know, I'm
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: gonna screw up for sure, I'm gonna make some mistakes
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: on a few of them, and you know, you get
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: you get the competition on these areas I hunter so
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: high inevitable that other hunters are gonna push deer out.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: So I usually if I can find you know, five
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: or six bucks to to go after, um, you know,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: then I can usually, uh tip, really find success. So
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: on that question, Andy, Um, you mentioned that you typically
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: have five or six different bucks that you try to
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: find a given ear. And this this kind of goes
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: to something I've thought a lot about a lot of
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: the best guys that I know, that guys that don't
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: own their own lands, guys that are finding spots either
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: by permission or in public. A lot of people I
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: talked to do like what you do. They have a
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: bunch of different places to hunt. So how many different
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: properties are you working through to try to find these
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: five or six bucks you know here in Michigan? I mean,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: do you have do you have five properties, do you
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: have fifteen properties you have permission on? Or public spots?
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: How many different spots do you go into a year
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: usually that you can say, okay, these are my options. Well,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: I'm always I'm always adding, uh, you know, spots. UM.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: You know, there's some a lot of people know kind
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: of where I hunt. I don't want to give it
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: away too much, but UM, you know there there's definitely
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: some spots that I have I have permission on, UM.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: And it's it's spots that are shared with other hunters
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: and guys. I don't know. It's kind of one of
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: those things where you know, the landowners let people hunt.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I got some spots like that. UM. You know, there's
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: some public spots. There's some spots that are private land
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: open to public hunting. UM. But I'm also always trying
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: to gain new ground, um in one way or another.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: So I knock got a lot of doors. UM. I'm
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: always kind of picking away at new public land spots.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: And you know some of the some of the areas
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: that I used to hunt a lot UM, specifically the
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: public areas they got hammered by h D back in
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, and they're still still not. You know,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: I had to give up on them for several years
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: because there just wasn't it wasn't any deer, uh you know,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: or not any not a single thing that I could
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: locate worth going after. So I don't know they answer
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: your question, there's a there's a lot of them. Um,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I'd probably say that I try to scout
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: and monitor, you know, twelve to fifteen different areas, um,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: you know, and some of those are huge chunks of
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: you know, public land. Some are tiny little private pieces.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Um hunt one piece that's one acre, you know, So
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: it's uh, you know, it's it's it's everything in between.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: So um yeah, I'm I try to find anywhere that
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: I can hunt around here. There's so many guys you
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: kind of you know, take what you can get. Yeah, okay,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: So Joe, Uh how about first question? How many different
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: parcels or properties do you typically try to have? His options?
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: And then can you detail you're scouting and what makes
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: your scouting next level? Yeah? Um yeah, Andy hit a
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: lot of the points I would hit. Makes my summary
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: a little shorter, but I right now I'm right around
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: a dozen pieces of public land that I hunt. And
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: that's my passion hunting for my bow tag and my
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: home state of Iowa, UM his public land UM I
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: I you know, for my general either sex tag. I
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: have a small acres around my house and Iowa landowners
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: get a landowners tag, but that's not really UM. Where
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: where my passion is, it's public land UM. And and
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: going out where anybody else can go. UM. I can
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: go whenever I want UM and scout and it's probably
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: they range from you know, uh, ten to twenty acres
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: up to you know, a thousand acres or more. UM.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: But really, UM, Iowa doesn't have that much public land. UM.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: I'm fortunate to live in a part of the state
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: that has more than other parts, but it's still not
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: that much. And I'm a little envious of guys who
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: have ten thousand acres in public out their back door.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: That'd be pretty cool. But UM, so I'm I'm hitting
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: you know, around a dozen also try to seek out
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: and scout at least one new parcel a year, UM
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: to one or two. UM. That's kind of basically publicly
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: and never stays the same. And you kind of mentioned this,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: you know, you you may have d h D, you
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: might have changes in hunting pressure. UM. A lot of
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: the differences that I see because some of the smaller parcels, uh,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: you know, if it depends if there's acorns or not. UM.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: If there's much use by dear, they may be over here,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: and then another year there may be hardly any deer
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: because they're focused on the crop fields, you know, and
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: surrounding private properties. UM. If if that, if you say,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: if it's a trail corridor and there's not good setting there, um,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: so I it's very important to have. I don't know.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: My rule of thumb is kind of twice as many
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: spots as I could hunt in a season and both
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: you know, twice as many areas and twice as many
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: setups in those areas I could ever hunt in the season.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: And I I'm focused on playing the lawn game, you know,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: kind of stacking odds in my favor. So I'm constantly sorting, um,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: what what are the best areas you know, the highest
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: odds that you know may have target box and I'm
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: really interested in that I think are killable versus other
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: ones that don't look so hot, you know, And I'm
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: I'm only hit in the top half of the top third.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: UM on a given a year, I'm still kind of
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: watching those other areas. I could put boots on the
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: ground a couple of times, and I may run a
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: trail camera too to see how deer moving and what's around.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: But um, that's kind of how I really try to
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: stack dodds in my favor. Um. And then I know
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: mentioned kind of a scouting routine. You know, Andy hit
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: most of the good points. One thing I would definitely add,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: um And I know he does this too, and talk
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: to him. But um, in season scouting, so basically that
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: the minute I kill I tag out, um like switch
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: to scouting mode. Um. All my, if I had, say,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: any cameras set up like watching for target bucks, I
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: might adjust those. Maybe I might adjust them, might not,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: betting on where they are, and I'll set them in spots.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: I really like to set cameras in spots and leave
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: them soaked the whole season and just observe in really
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: kind of high impact spots. Don't check them. I'll leave
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: them for months on end, observe natural deer movement, and
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: then I can review those photos and really get a
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: very detailed understanding of what those deer doing. Um, just
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: about every spot I have ever done that with I
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: see distinct um favorite deer trends according to weather, maybe
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: maybe hunting pressure and other factors um, different food sources
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: lighting up, um, but particularly whether when can you know
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: when temperatures hear you certain areas based on certain conditions.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: I am absolutely certain to that, UM. On top of
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: you know, hunting pressure, pressure effects and everything like that.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: So UM, you know the rest in season scouting, the
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: sign is red hot. You can see it as it
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: gets laid down. You can get a jump start on
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: that spring scouting if you tag out, like my favorite
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: time to hunt in October and the best majority of
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: time I tag out in October. UM, and I'm I'm
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: switching immediately to okay, what I want to look at
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: for next year, and then letting those trail cameras soak
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: with the intent over the kind of the winter months.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Like if you've got a big thick snowpack on the ground, Um,
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: it's not ideal scouting out there. That's when I play
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: catch up, you know. I just actually it's February, the
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: second week of February right now, and I just finally
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: UM caught up with all my trail camp photos from
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: last fall. You know. So I had a number of
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: cameras out just sitting there. Finally picked up the last couple,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: and I've been looking at those. I would always been
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: figure out how deer are using those spots. Awesome, Jesse,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: what would you add as far as how many different
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: places you have that you have access to and you're scouting. Yeah,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: so obviously those guys gave great answers. And one thing
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: I would point out, all three of us, Joe, Andy
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: and myself lived in completely different geographic areas, um, and
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: therefore our answers are I actually might um give different
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: answers than them and not disagree, but UM, my answers
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: would be different because I'm hunting a completely different um
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: the top of Rascal. Everything is different. Um. Like Andy
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: had said, scouting and looking for mass amounts of deer
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: in the winter, I would agree with. I love the
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: pound it right now. This is the one time of
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: year that you can cover ground and go places that
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: you should not go because anything you bump, it doesn't matter.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: They're coming back. They're going wherever the flood sources. Now
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: when I tom ground right now, I'm looking for sign
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: that was November sign or October signed um or you know,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: obviously shed hunting, but I personally think gear are the
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: sounds corny, But they're kind of like men um. When
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: they're young, they're all over the place. They're goofing around
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: there with all the you know, they're with the tribe,
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: they're with the herd um. When they get to be older,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: which is what we're hunting. When I'm in my fourties,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: I don't really go out of the butters anymore. I'm
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: not traveling with the masses. I kind of like to
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: be alone. I'd like to be out my own little
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: area in life. And they bucks are the same way.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: So while I'm covering ground this time of year, I'm
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: not looking for tons of tracks, I'm looking for a giant.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: I'm looking for a big track. And here, um you
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: can bump them. It's great this time of year and
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: it's not a big deal. But here everything is going
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: to change. So bucks that are are where they are
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: right now, I might never see them um in the
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: you know, in in that spot everything food source. Here,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: we get a lot of snow and it's really cold,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: and then in the summer it's gonna be you know,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: in the nineties, so everything really swings. UM. So I'm
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: not afraid to walk all over the place, and personally,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not looking for big mass quantities of deer. Um.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: Those guys nailed that. I'm looking for next year's kill
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: this year. Um. And when I scout year round, obviously, UM,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: you gotta study these food sources. And you've got to
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: remember what happened last year when the when the soybeans turned,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: all the bus disappeared. Well, you know, they went to
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: the soybeans. So you have to play back on your
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: knowledge from years in the past. Um. And really, I
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: don't take any notes. When I was a kid, I
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: took a lot of notes, and then I found that
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: I never go back and read them because I remember
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: every buck from every year. Um. You know when they
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: switched gears, when they disappeared, when they showed up. Um.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: I literally sit in my treuesday and think about that stuff.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: But I think Joe had mentioned that, you know, just
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: just uh, you know, thinking and spending time scouting. Uh,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: just thinking about scouting and think about hunting. Um, remembering
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: the change of things. UM. Scouting. The one thing I
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: would say those guys didn't mention is at least for me,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: I glassed like a maniac. I stay way away from
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: UM by hunting spots even when I'm scouting UM in
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: the winter is about the only time I really walked
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: through anything. UM. Having good optics and having a good
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: tripod for your optics to be on UM and knowing
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: that that fifteen window when animals are gonna move or
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: where they're gonna show up. That's you have to learn
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: that stuff. And it sounds weird, but once you kind
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: of figure things out, it's almost like you have a
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: sixth sense. No matter what state you go to, you'll
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: see something and you'll just you'll know. Um, I need
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: to beat here tonight it's six five at sunset because
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: I gotta see what comes out of that corner. UM.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: Just picking up that sixth sense and making mental notes
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: in your head from years in the past. UM. I'm
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: not a big camera guy either, to be honest with you. UM,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: I like what Joe said about putting them up and
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: leaving on and UM, I have cameras that are literally
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: sitting out there that I put out in October and
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: I still haven't picked him up. Yeah, I'm sure the
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: batteries are dead, but UM, I don't know what was
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: there and uh, and I'll know what time of day
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: they moved and stuff. But some guys check them every
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: week and you know they wonder why why you disappeared.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: You're schooling them, you know. So so you you talked
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: about you talked about glassing, Um, what times of year
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: are you doing that glass? And are you doing that
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: through the entire year and monitoring deer from a distance
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: at all times a year or is that just in
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: season from observation stands or can you elaborate on that
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: a little bit? But before we before we do get
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: to the answer to these questions from Jesse, let's take
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: a quick pause here for our white Tail Properties segment
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: of the day and Spencer will get that started force
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: right now. This week with white Tail Properties, we are
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: joined by Andrew Schultz, a land specialist out of Illinois.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: And Andrew is going to be telling us about projecting
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: the future of the landmarket in the Midwest. You know,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: I wish I will is uh able to tell the future,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: but um, all I can go off of is my
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: clients and what I hear from people around me, and
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: obviously my experience since being in this business, and the
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: one thing that I seem to hear over and over
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: again is that UM buyers and sellers wish they would
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: have bought sooner, and they wish they would have bought more.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: And the reason for that is because if you look
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: back at the history of land, it's appreciated so much
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: over the years, and we expected to continue appreciating because
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: they're not making any more land. So there's a limited
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: supply of this stuff, and it's in high demand, and
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: people who have never owned land before they're coming out
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: and they're they're buying it because they understand that they're
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: not making any more of it. So, UM can I
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: predict five years from now, ten twenty, Not exactly, but
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: I can predict or it's likely that land is going
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: to continue to appreciate and you're gonna wish that you
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: would have bought more of it and bought it sooner.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to learn more and to see the
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: properties that Andrew currently has listed for sale, visit white
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: tail properties dot com backslash Shultz that's s h U
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: l t z. Yeah. So I glass NonStop. In fact,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: um glassing, at least in the East where I've come from.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: It seems like nobody glasses. UM. I glass I have
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of spots um that are exactly what you said.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: They're observation stands. Um. You couldn't kill a deer out
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: of past my stands if your life depended on it.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: With the boat, A lot of them are high. Um.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: But I can see I can see all the way
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: around me, you know, literally a mile. I mean a
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: lot of times I'm glassing three or four fields away, um,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: or three or four headrows away or or you know.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: And now a lot of times even if I only
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: had ten minutes, um, if my wife. I have a
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: wife and three kids and run my own business. So
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: free time it's ten minutes to me is awesome. So
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: if I can get out of here, hit the road
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: and hit at least one of my spots in glass, um,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: that's five minutes of knowledge that I got that I
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: know nobody else is doing. UM. So that that's huge.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: And having very good optics UM is important. And having
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: a very good tripod if you're from the ground, having
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: steady glass it's amazing. It'll make marginal bunoculars look better.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: So buy a good tripod and buy a good tripod
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: head um if that's all you can afford, And then
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: someday when you can swing a little more money, get
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: yourself some high end optics, and you will. I think
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: my Swarovski's when I bought them, they were like eighteen
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: hundred bucks and everybody thought I was nuts. But they're
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: like fifteen years old. There's still amazing and they're still
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: probably worth tars now. And I would have bought three
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: or four other sets of junk three bunoculars. So having
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: good optics, I took up on so much stuff that
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: that I know nobody's that people aren't seen, and it's
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: it's really like cheating. I almost feel like got cheated
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: with my optics because it's it's you can look through
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: the woods with them. It's it's great. That's a that's
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: that's a great time. I would I would ree. One
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: other kind of tip that you mentioned is tracks. Um
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: that's something that I didn't really mention, but it's a
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: huge component of what I'm doing all year long. I'm
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: looking at tracks, and I know I've got subcomment. It's
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: like some people are very skeptical that you can I
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: d and individual Bucks tracks, but I have been looking
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: at the hooves of Big Bucks for quite a while now,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: and a big, mature fully mature buck is not very
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: common anywhere, um, on anywhere that gets any significant hunting pressure. Um,
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: there's not many of them, and usually their tracks stand out.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: UM they're busy pawing and fighting, and you know Jason does.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: And there are a lot of times chipped up, cracked
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: up whatever. They're usually big, not always, but usually much
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: bigger um square. You know, they're fairly distinctive. So my
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: alternating goal, Yeah, it's to find you know, I d
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: that bucks track, you know, um, and you know, hopefully
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: I say, I am scouting in the winter and jump
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: him out of a bed. I'm looking at that bed,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at that track, you know. Um. And once
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: I have that, that's a huge puzzle piece because then um,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: I know, you know, and this kind of shows the
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: differences creeen each of us. I don't do that much glassing. Um.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: I used to do a ton of glassing. In frankly,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: I don't do that much anymore. For us, like, I
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: don't have that much. I just don't find myself having
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of free time in the evening. Um.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: But what I found is in the farm country deer
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: that a lot of what I hunt. I'm able to
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: walk the edges of you know, crop fields and look
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: for tracks, and then that's kind of you know, it's
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: kind of equivalent to grassing. Glassing. I can see where
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: the deer coming in and going out, and do that
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: in mid day, do a quick loop, don't get anywhere
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: near bedding. I'll do that all summer long and all uh,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: you know, just trying to figure out where those tracks.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Those tracks are probably made at night. But then I
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: can get in a lot, you know, a direction to travel,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: and if I did my homework previous winter scouting, I
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: can say, you know, well I need to hunt that
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: betting area a quarter mile back, you know, or you know,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: half a mile away. I think that's where he's betting.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: So how about this one, um, Jesse, you kind of
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: eluded a little while back. Maybe it was Andy talking
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: about Jesse, Um that you were killing several different bucks
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: year after year in a row, like the first day
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: of this season, right towards the beginning of the season. Um.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: So I want to talk about different times of the year. Um,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: And we'll try to make this a little bit simple.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: If you could only pick one week of the whole year.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: If I said that you had to kill him ture buck.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Your life depended on it, and you had only one
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: week of the season to do it. And what one
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: week period would that be? And Joe, let's let's send
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: it right back to you to start. Um, Well, assuming
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: I'm on my home turf areas that I've scouted already. Um,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: it's the last week October for me. Um, that's kind
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: of my bread and butter I've killed. I'm pretty sure
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: I've killed a mature buck in every week of the season,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: Like we go from October one, then in November, and
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: then of course we have late season two and I've
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: had success then, but you know, basically October November, I'm
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: pretty sure I've had it, has success every week of
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: the season that last week October. Um, it's just bos
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: are still pretty pannable. They're a little more visible they
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: are on these pre rough patterns. Um, They're they're kind
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: of seeking out that first dough that smells right in
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: the first old does are just you know, getting close, Um,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: And that buck isn't necessary isn't cruising around for probably
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: you know, through the day, but you can catch him
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: at first and last light. Um. On these on these
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: kind of rut travel routes, already checking out the dough
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: betting areas, checking out the major food sources UM, and
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: basically using his rough bedding. And that's what I'm targeting.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: It's it's rock bedding, UM. And that's it's usually I
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: don't want to say it's got a lot of sign
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: um but um because every bucks difference and a lot
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: of older bucks don't leave hardly any sign. But it's. Uh.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: If you look at enough bedding locations and buck beds,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: you start to realize some are clearly located with the
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: intent of keeping an eye on the doors in the area. UM.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: And those light up so consistently in late October. I
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: mean I just I just see it every single year,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: and I wait for you know, whatever conditions all betting
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: is still, you know, conditional favor of certain winds, certain temperatures. UM.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: I wait for those conditions. I don't touch. You know,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: I may not have set foot anywhere near I probably
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: didn't set foot anywhere near there since from the you know,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: since spring when I picked a set up nearby and
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: I'm going in there and hitting that UM. Ideally I
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: know there's that big buck in the area, either from
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: those tracks, maybe stuff from some you know, trail camp
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: photos over the course of the year. UM, and that's
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: that's kind of my go to go to time. So
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: what can you elaborate? But can you elaborate on the
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: what you call the rut betting So what what would
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: what would a rut betting area look like for a
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: buck as opposed to where you might find him the
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: rest of the year. Yeah, so UM, some so this
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: gets a little into individual box some some books. Well
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: I'll start this the boldest box in general have the
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: smallest core areas. You know, there's there's outliers, there's some
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: that rove around UM. And within that core area, he's
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: got UM. You know, a certain number of locations that
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: he prefers to bed UM seek safety, that's his primary concern.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: But UM, in that time period right in the pre
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: rout he is likely to use you know, he won't
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: sacrifice safety hardly at all, but he will favor the
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: locations that are closest to UM, like a dope family
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: group betting UM. And and for instance in hill country,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: something I've noticed is uh what I didn't coin this term,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: but it's called a thermal hub. So thermal hubs are
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: where kind of thermal spool um. So you can have
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: kind of a low thermal hub where several like several
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: drainages tied together, and the falling thermals in the evening
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: come down from those, uh say, three three drainage, three
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: small drainages tied together, falling thermals come down from each
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: of those, and kind of pool in a central area.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: And a lot of time you'll see a ton of
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: sign down there. Robson's grapes gets it gets torn up.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: Well often you can't hunt down there, but that buck
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: is dropping in there and sent checking the surrounding area
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: to see, you know, what's what with the does in
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: the area in that late October time frame and a
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: little bit into the rout um. And I basically he's
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: betting very he's often betting at a secondary point right
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: next to there, maybe a low bench. You can find
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: those buck heads right in that close proximity. Um. And
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: it's in a location that he cannot you know, observe
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: with his nose, which is their primary you know, you know,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: it's equivalent to our eyesight. We believe what we see.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: A deer believes what he smells. Um. He wants to
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: be able to observe what is around um and uh
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: so that so that it's hard to describe beyond If
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: you see, uh, you know, a big bed maybe with
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: you know, an old rub right above it, it's in
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: a very secure location, that just makes you scratch your
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: head and say, I don't know how to hunt this. Um.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: That's probably an indicator. That's a really secure location. And
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: a big buck, if he's in that area, is probably
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: going to use that bed. And if it's close to say, uh,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: you know a hunter and fifty yards up the ridge
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: or whatever is a megat betting area, well that bed
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: is probably getting used in the late pre rud you know.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: That's that's how I kind of look at it. I
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: think it was a great point that Joe said. And
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: you don't hunt that spot. You can't even though you
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: know that deer is there, those thermal there's a reason
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: why he's there, and people sign that sign and hang
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: a stand there and they screwed up. Don't hunt those spots,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: but know how to get you know, get get close
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: to those spots without screwing it. How would you how
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: would you you want to use you want to do
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: use that to your advantage, you know, like that's that's
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: a great point. You know, yeah, just because you can't
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: hunt a spot, you can still use it to your vantage.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: So anyway, go on, No, I was just it was
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: a great point that you said, Um, you know, you
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: can't hunt those spots, and so many people don't have
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: the discipline to not hunt that spot. You blast that spot.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: You know that spot is there, and when you see
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: those those up end of that spot, you you and
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: you can't find that buck. You know he's probably using
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: the area that you scouted. And you try and hunt
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: the periphery of that with the wind in your favor
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: at all times, and when that wind switches you get
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: out of there. But you try and get lucky and
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: cutty moss um, but you never hunt those spots. And
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: for Joe to make that comment, um, that's that's the
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: sign of a killer. He knows. He knows that you
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: don't go in there where a lot of people would
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: never make that comment that it's an unhunable spot. That's smart. Yeah,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: that's all right. So Jesse, how about back to the
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: original question. You get one week of the season, what
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: is it? Yeah, so u Joe kind of had mentioned
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: it as well. It depends on the state. If it's
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: my home state, UM, I like to I like to
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: do my homework way ahead of time, and I like
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: to kill them fast. I like to kill them. We
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: have a lot of pressure here. We have small black
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: woods and we have a lot of agriculture, so, um,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: these guys can screw up the woods real quick. And
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: everybody here hunts, so there's a ton of pressure. Um.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: I like to get get the job done. Um. Everybody says, oh,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: there's an October lull. Well that's good. I hope they
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: stay out of the woods because all I need is
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: is that last fifteen minutes of light or that or
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: that first forty minutes of light when they're going back
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: into the bedding grounds. I really try and do my
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: homework and my home state and I try and get
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: them killed. And um, New York where I live, this
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: is not a huge trophy state. It's not like I'm
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to kill a booner here. Um, I'm trying
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: to kill a good respectable you know. One class year
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: was like killing a one eight in Iowa. So it's
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: it's not like I'm too worried that. Um. You know,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: if I tell you a hundred forty, and I'm not
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: gonna be sad that there was a one eight here
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: but I didn't get I'm not worried about that. So
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: I'm killing my home state buck. I'm not hunting up
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: a world class place, and I'm getting out of here
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: as fast as i can and going to um Ohio
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: or Kansas, Illinois. UM. And truthfully, if I was the
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: hunt out of state, any out of state guy, but
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: you don't have the knowledge um of the ground the
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: way the way Joe does in Iowa or Andy in Michigan. UM.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: My advice would be going November, getting your truck November five,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: November six, start driving, try and be in a standard
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: in a glassing point November seven, and hunt sun up
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: to sundown for the next seven In the ten days,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: you can sleep and relax and drinker the rest of
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: the year, but for those seven to ten days, punish
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: yourself and you will kill a giant. Maybe not a giant,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: but if you're healing out of state and don't know
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: where you're at, punish yourself for those seven to ten days.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: Keep your eyes open all the time, and those are
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: your best odds for a non resident Um. If I
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: talked to some of my other buddies who are world
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: class guys, um, they will say, Um, the end of
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: the rut, the end of November is when the true
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: giants show up because they've bred everything in their circle
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: and they're starting to cruise around looking for other unbred dose. Um.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: So for an average guy like me, I'm happy to
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: kill one sixty November seven, November fourteenth to the eighteenth. Um,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: that's when I want to be out of state for
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: out of state hunting in your home state. You know. Uh,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: it all comes down to what you see. But for me,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: I like that first week there, there's there's like eight
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: ups together. Um, they're all hitting fluid sources. If you
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: see one buck, you're seeing every book in the block
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: and you're gonna be able to pick the one you want.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: So I like, I like that for for me, that's
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: great advice. That's great advice about you know, the differentiation
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: between your backyard where you're tiled in and going in
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: somewhere new or even somewhere you've done a little bit
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: of scouting. Uh, yeah, you're you're a spot on there.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: You know, peek rutt is where it's at. If you
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: want to go in somewhere new and you know, try
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: to get the job done, especially you know, at a
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: long distance from home. Right, Thanks Andy, What are your
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: thoughts on this? You got your one week? Which is it? Yeah,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna echo what what Jesse said, you
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: know for me, Um, specifically in Michigan. You know, it's
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: hard for me to pick something other than that first
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: week at the season. Um, I've been pretty successful. UM.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: I definitely don't kill one every year on the first week,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: but UM, I've killed enough of them, and I've I've
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: been on enough mature deer and I've had opportunities that
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: enough mature deer on that first week for that to
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: really be my favorite time. UM. And I know things
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: can kind of come into play, like you know, weather
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: and all that, but just the uh, you know, if
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: I do my work and my due diligence in September,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: I should be on a good one that first few
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: days of the season. If I'm not, I didn't work
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: hard enough and I didn't prepare and I slacked. So
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: I really love that time. Um. In fact, I've I've
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: started doing a lot of my traveling out of state
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: just to hunt opening days. Um. You know, I try
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: to never miss the opening day in Ohio, and I've
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: been successful opening day there. Um. Same with Kentucky. Um
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: killed a couple down there in the first few days
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: of the season. So I really like that time the
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: deer unpressured. Um, they're they're moving. You can you can
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: still catch them on food sources. Uh, not so much
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: in Michigan. But when I as soon as I crossed
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: those lines, you know, food sources are fair game now
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: in Michigan. Um, yeah, I can't even. I don't know
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: that I've ever killed a deer on a food source here,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: a mature deer. Um. I'd have to really look back
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: through through the hunts. But I'm I'm almost always tight
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: to betting. Um, I'm the big mature deer. Um, I
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: gotta get in in the cover. The the food sources
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: are loaded with hunters, so um. You know I usually
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: have to get in tight. Um. But I really like
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: that October time frame. Um. You know, even mid October,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: like Jesse said, you know, if you know what you're doing, UM,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: you know you're still on deer at that time frame.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: You just you really have to, you know, fall back
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: on your scouting and your knowledge of the area and
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: what mature deer do at that time. But when I'm
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: traveling out of state, UM, I almost never hunt the
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: rut here in Michigan. UM. I might get a sit
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: or two, UM, but that's usually when I'll take a
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: trip to when I draw my Iowa tag or you know,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: I've been to Illinois and Iowa and UM, like Jesse
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: said that November you know, for me, it's probably that
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: November five six time frame to the twelfth. That's when
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: I seem to see the biggest mature bucks on their
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: feet and where I've had a lot of success, tons
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: of midday kills. UM. I really like that time frame. UM.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: You know, to to travel to a good you know,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: a state that has you know, a more target rich environment,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: I guess. And I've never um, I've never hunted anywhere
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: um during that Thanksgiving time UM with a bow. You know,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: I've I've been to states where their gun season is open.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: But that's something that is kind of, you know, possibly
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: in the works, especially Iowa tag. I might focus on
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: that time, UM, because I'd really like to kind of
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: extend my season and maybe you know, focus a little
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: more Russets here in Michigan. But um, those would probably
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: be my two my two favorite times, you know, times
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: of the year. You know, if I had to if
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: I had to choose a week or so, um, it
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: would probably be somewhere in those two time frames. Yeah,
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: that that would be wise, Andy common Die. Um. You
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: know if both of you touched on that. The second
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: half of that brought you know, right at as lockdown
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: let's loose. Um, the kind of it depends where you're
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: in Iowa, but really from November sixteen, seventeenth, that's when
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: lockdown starts to kind of um fall away and for
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: the next week to ten days. Um, that that is
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: your opportunity to see that world class year walking around
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: doing something really dumb because he's just war out and
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: he's looking for you know, one last dough and that
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: that can be the downfall of him. So um, and
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: that's such a cool at that time period, I think
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: that was an invite, didn't Did Joe just not invite us? Yeah?
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: He did said that would be a great idea for
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: you guys to come to. You know, that's a Joe,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: it's a it's such a cool opportunity. Um. You know,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: there's very few states that have that time frame still
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: open when it's archery season. And you know, I've never
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: capitalized that. I kind of kicked myself, you know. You
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: know once guns season starts here, it's like, you know,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: I just don't get out. I don't. I don't really
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: enjoy that as much. Um. I'll get out a little
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: bit here and there, but you know, it's kind of,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: let's the the wind out of my sales. So I'm
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: always looking for ways to and extend that archery season.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: And I think I think I could get in a
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: couple other uh you know, maybe a couple of other states,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: or at least some more time in other states and
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: still be able to you know, hit Iowa at a
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: good time if I push it back towards that later
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: part of Novada. Yeah, you have to be a little
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: more dialed into what the deer doing, so like blasting
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: or observations that those are. That's more important than ever
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: before because a lot of times the weather is colder, uh,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: the does or stock you know, piled up on the
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: prime food sources, whether it's acorns or cup corn or
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: you know whatever, um, and you but you find those
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: big dough concentrations the boxer circle in the background. Um,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: they're still you know, they've still got that that urge.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: So um yeah, it's it's uh. I remember you when
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: you last time you drew an IOA tag, you had
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of you had some action packed unts in
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: late November, if I remember right. So yeah, yeah, definitely
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm the agenda. So we just talked a little
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: bit late in November. I was gonna ask you, Joe,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: to elaborate on how you're hunting that time frame, but
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: you just did so not I want to go to
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: the opposite and both you Andy and Jesse mentioned that
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: first week of the season, and um you said, Andy
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: that if you did your due diligence in September you'd
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: have a good chance. Um, can you elaborate on how
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: you actually go about doing that due diligence to allow
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: for successful early season hunt? And what do you do
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: specifically those first couple of days of this season in
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: a spot that have made that so successful for you? Um? Well,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: you know, I I will definitely uh do a lot
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: of glassing, you know that for for you know, to
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: be specific. I don't I don't waste a ton of
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: time glassing like in August, I do it because I
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: enjoy it then. But for what I've found is, you know,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: there's can be a lot of things that change, you know,
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: between in August and say mid September or even late September.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: So I'll do it a little bit here and there
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: in August. Um you know, I'm definitely running cameras and
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: stuff and kind of monitoring that way. But um, you know,
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: more so when the season gets closer, you know, that
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: two week period before the season, that's when I really
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: start bearing down. I'm like, you know, now the deer
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: are in more of a pattern that's at least closer
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: to the season. Now, a lot of times things change,
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: like right even you know, a couple of days before
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: the season. But I'm really trying to find a buck
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: or two that is showing some sort of movement, you know,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: and you know I might glass them on a food
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: source you know, at last light. Um, but you know
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: where I hunt. You know, those food sources are gonna
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: there's gonna be guys there. There's gonna be guys there
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: on you know, opening evening, no doubt about it. Um
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: So more so, I really you know that the areas
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: that I hunt, I no intimately I mean, I know
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: him inside and out. I know where the doose bed
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: when there's a good buck there, I know where the
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: mature buck beds are. So when I see a deer
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: show up, and it might be a visual natural camera,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: it might be just a big track. When I'm walking
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: the perimeter of the food sources, you know, I have
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: a pretty good idea of where that deer is betting
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: on a given locate, on a given wind direction. You know.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: So I've tind to fall back on all my scouting
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: that I did in the you know, in the postseason,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: you know, before a green up, um, you know. So
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: I just I feel like I just know those areas
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: so well. When a deer does show up, I have
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: a pretty good idea how to get him. Now. You know,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: there's always things that kind of come up and change,
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: and uh, you know, you get caught flat footed sometimes,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: But for the most part, if one shows up and
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: he shows a weakness early in the season, I'm usually
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: off the food source fighter to betting cover. Um. You know,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: that could has been within fifty yards of the betted deer,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: it's been within a hundred yards. It just depends. But
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: to typically um from what I've seen, even in a
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: high pressure state like Michigan, if you can get back
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: into that security cover, into their their their core area,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: their betting area where they feel comfortable, where they've survived
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: for years and years, they will move. Now. They might
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: not move far, but they'll move and they'll get up
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: and they'll you know, mill around a little bit and
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: they'll you know, inch their way away from that betting area.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: And you've got to be within that zone and that
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: safe zone where they feel safe. You know, that's the
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: whole balancing act of you know, a bug out of
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: his bed. You've got to determine how close you can
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: get without being busted. And that's the key. You got
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: to get in without getting busted. But you want to
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: be close enough where they're still gonna move in daylight,
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: you know, in shooting hours, towards your direction. And it's
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: a it's a it's a difficult thing to kind of master,
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: and I certainly haven't mastered. I certainly screwed up a lot.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: But that's how I kill the majority of my bucks
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: in October. You know, I'm tight within the bedding within
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: a hundred yards for sure. Yeah, Yeah, Andy, that's uh.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: Even here in Iowa. You know, I have not killed
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: a public land buck on a food source in two days. So, um,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: it just doesn't happen or you know, UM, where you
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: got to get it done is tight to betting. That's
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: that's for sure. It did. That depends on pressure. It
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: also depends a little bit on terrain, I think, UM,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: you know here, Yeah, I know I don't have the
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: pressure that you guys deal with. UM, but still I'm
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: within two hundred yards of betting. You know, it's hard
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: in Hell country. It's hard to get within a hundred
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: yards very often. UM. It covers a lot of times
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: a little more open and we have high deer densities,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: so there's deer everywhere. And that's another challenge, is just
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: trying to not that's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of hill country here at all,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: but you mentioned something high deer density. I've hunted some
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: very five gear density areas out of state. UM, and
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: you know, one thing I noticed there is that the
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: deer um, you know, at least in that area, they
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: would move quite far from betting. Um. You know, they're
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: the groups of dose And like these younger books that
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: would start moving very ear at least they got all
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: these kind of sets of eyes that are heading towards
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: the food cources early. And then these these big bucks.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it's kind of almost like a you know,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: they're sending out the dummies, you know early, and if
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: you know, the whole herds is out there town any
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: at the food source, those big ones get up and
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: we saw some really good deer and shot a couple
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: really good deer in food sources kind of those lower
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: pressure states you know, you know, on a food source,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: and it's just the competition is so high it just
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: it stimulates earlier movement. But the trick is you gotta
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: stay undetected from all those you know, dozens and dozens
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: of deer that come by first. Jesse, would you add
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: anything on the early season front or elaborate on this,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: you know, how close he can be two beds or
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: anything that Joe and you have talked about here. Yeah,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: those guys nailed UM. They made great points, especially being
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: that um this platform you have with three different guys
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: in three different areas, you're really getting three different UM
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: techniques in two different styles, which is actually good. I
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: think it's really good to your listeners. Um, I would,
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: I would. Uh. The only thing I would touch base
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: on what they said is like, where I'm from, we
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: have a lot of hedgerows, big agriculture and small blackwoods. So, um,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: you really, I really like killing my home state deer.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: I mean truthfully, I like killing them. If I can
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: get them killed the first day to maybe three days,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: that's that's my goal. And I will put even if
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: I got to take those three days off. That's when
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: I try and get it done. Um. They haven't been
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: screwed up yet most guys. Um. That's when guys are
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: gonna you know, guys are gonna start bombarding the woods. Um.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: One thing I study along with all the deer sign
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: as I study the hunter sign. Um. I a lot
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: of these guys don't take down any other stands. UM.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: So I use these guys. Um. They will literally pattern
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: the deer for you because you can tell when these
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: guys start hitting the woods, because the deer's patterns will change.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: I try to kill these dear one before they before
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: they change. Um. And if I can glass a shooter
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: buck um, I like to see. I don't care if
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: I got to kill him in the morning. Or evening,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: and if I know where he's at, Like obviously I
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: have hung stands and betting grounds. However, I always have
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: seven or eight sets of stands that are ready to
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: go with foot pegs and with pull up cords, ready
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: to rock, and a lot of times I will stage
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: these stands just in the you know, on the edge
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: of the woods on the ground. I know it sounds crazy,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: but that way, Um, if I know where a buck
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: is at and he's betted, and I think he's you
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: even know the ground. If I think, all right, I
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: can sneak in this woods. I think there's deers bed
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: a hundred and took the yards on the on the
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: you know, northwest or I'm sorry, northeast corner, so you
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: can wind everything. Um, I'm gonna try and slip in there,
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: um and hanging stand thirty yards inside the woods. Um,
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna glass him even before the season starts. I'm
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: gonna glass him. If um, if I'm not seeing him,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have another stand and I'm gonna go another
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: thirty forty yards. I know it sounds stupid, but I
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: will literally have four or five stands and I'll just
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: hang him and keep cheating in and I won't take
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: any of them down because if the wind isn't right,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: or the wind is a little more out of the south,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: I can drop back and I'm not screwing anything up. Uh.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: And then usually for an evening hunt that those would
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: be obviously for morning hunts in the woods. Um. And
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: I killed numerous deer where I've gone in glassed him
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: on a morning hunt and I thought, man, if I
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: was just sixty yards closer. Um, they'll go in and
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: bed and a lot of times I'll back out. I know,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: res betted, And if I think the wind is right,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: I'll go for a throw and hang a stand right
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: in where it's a horrible spot. Um that every year
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: after they get past me, is gonna wind me. Um.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: That's when you've got to be really confident to do that.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: And you gotta know, Okay, I'm I'm either gonna kill
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: him or blow him out. And I would say, which
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: is kind of crazy, but seventy at the time, if
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: I make that move, I kill him, and if I don't,
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: usually I don't blow him out. He spooked because every
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: year that's going past me is snorting and blowing. He
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't know what happened. I don't care what the other dear.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: I think I'll back out. I'll slip out of there
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: and I won't do that again. I'll circle back in
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: the next morning and start all over again. If he
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: if that buck goes by me, he getting shot and
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: by the time he wins me, he's dead. So yeah,
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: he doesn't know what's going on. But that's a that's
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: how I do it here. Um. But I like that
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: early season and if you work hard at it and
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: you really you play chess with it and really think
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: you aren't smart. I mean, I know people like to think.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: I just people off of that comment, but you're not smart.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: They're an animal. They're they're a habitual animal. They have wonderful,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: um natural sense of smell. They have great eyes, and
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: they have great hearing. They're not smart. We are smart.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: So if you can just study their natural reactions, you're
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: going to kill them. So don't site yourself out when
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: you're hunting the beer. It's an animal. You're going to
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: kill them. You just have to be smarter than them,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: and we are smarter than them. Yeah, you're you're a
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: spot on and that I really like how you said
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: you gotta go in with you know you're gonna kill
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: or blow them out. And that is a trait I've noticed,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: you know, you you you have it. I noticed other
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: other you know, hardcore killers have it. And that is
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: a mentality you have to have. You know, you have
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: to set the groundwork, have that confidence, and then you
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: go in mentality because otherwise you hang back, you know,
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: and you miss an opportunity. And early things particularly, you've
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: got to be right on it. Both you and Andy
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: mentioned that you know, the patterns changed so fast those
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: first few days that uh, that's right. Everything changed, the
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: crafts changed, the people's pressure change. Um. And you know, Joe,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: the only reason I learned that you gotta learn by mistakes.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: The only reason I learned that I used to kill
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: big deer with just grit, just hunting. Before I had kids,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: I hunted non stop, and I found it trusty. I
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: wasn't really efficient. Um I killed big deer just by
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: being a tough, NonStop, relatively smart hunter. But once I
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: had kids in my own business, UM, I took more chances.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, I don't have time. I
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: can't hunt it for the next four days because I've
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: got the kids. I gotta get him off to school bus.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: I'm going for this buck tonight. I think everything's right.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: Screw it. I don't care if I screwed up, and
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden it was like, drill them and
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: I take more chances now and do the career easiest stuff.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: I killed some deer in the dumbst tree stands. I'm
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: not a very big guy, only way a hundred fifties
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: sixty pounds. I have killed deer out of stands that
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: I've carried in there, climbed up the tree, hung it
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: and literally said in it that night in a sumac
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: tree that's the size of my thigh, and shot the
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: best bucks around. But you've got to take calculated risks. Yeah,
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: you're you're exactly that's right. That's exactly my story too.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: You know, once I started having kids, you know, yeah,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: I grew up hunting sixty you know, bow hunts in
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: a year. That's long thing in the past, and I'm
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: not going to be getting back to that anytime soon,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: if ever. Um. And now, yeah, I want you know,
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: I want my target buck and under ten hunts, you know. Um,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: And that's uh, You've got to do so much groundwork
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: before that and when the time is right, you have
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: to just go all in, you know, I that in
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: the edge of a mile field and kill the hunter
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: and ten pointer on the ground. You know, something ridiculous.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: He was he was gonna bust me for four times
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: out of five, you know, or two times out of three.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: But he didn't, and I got an arrow with him.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: You know, so um that you gotta and and to
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: get to that point, you know, it's a journey. You
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: can't skip to that point, you know, like I think
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: all three of us we needed a huge amount of
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: time out there just to kind of build that basic woodsmanship,
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: you know, basic understanding of how dear you know, operate
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: and the phases of their you know, the season as
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: deer see it, and what hunting pressure means, and you
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: know the good access routes, and you know how to
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: play the wind and just all the fundamentals. It's so
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: important you gotta, you know, for the younger and newer
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: hunters out there, just enjoy that ride and then you'll
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: get to a point where you can start making some
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: of those decisions. You know, I don't mean that in
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: any kind of arrogant sense. It just takes time. You know,
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: it takes a ton of time to master, so you
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: can't you can't you can't buy that that time. You know,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: I think, I hope I may have touched that, touched
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: on that in my my d I Y, but you know,
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: I think like you'd be hard pressed to find a
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: guy that's been hunting a long time, that's been super
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: successful that you know, like I said, at at some
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: point in his life he devoted everything to hunting. I
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: mean it literally, you know, every day of the year.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: He was doing something scouting, hunting every day of the
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: season and making a ton of mistakes, and you've you've
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: got to kind of go through those. It's like trial
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: by fire. You kind of got to go through that
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: to develop your own style, to develop your own skill,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: and then as it develops, you can you can back off,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: you can hunt much less. But the you know, the
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: preparation is where it's all done. You know, all the scouting,
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: all the archery, you know, fine tuning your set up,
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: learning your areas and and you know intimately and learning
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: the you know, specific dear from year to year and
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: their tendencies. Then you're able to make these much more
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: uh informed decisions. I call them almost instinctual because you
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: you've done it so many times, You've made these mistakes
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: and you you have eliminated them, so you make far
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: less mistakes and things almost come like I'm a I'm
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: a I describe myself as like a field hunter. I
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: get like these feelings, and all it is is a
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: just recall of experiences that I've had over and over
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: again and mistakes and successes that you know, you get
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: these feelings like this is the spot, you know, or
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: I need to push in a little bit further. I
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: think I can push in a little bit further and
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: you get these feelings in which you find is over time,
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: these feelings are right more and more often because you've
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: you've tried to you're not sitting back, you know, being
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: you know lazy or you know you're you're being aggressive
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: and you're making those those moves and you're learning, you're
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: learning what you can get away with, your learning what
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: you can't, and you're developing your own style. And it's
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: just you have to go through that. Yeah, And I
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: feel I feel I feel bad for some of these
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: guys that you know kind of joined the beasts and
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: they're already married and they're you know, I you know,
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: maybe in their mid thirties and they already got kids
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: and stuff, and they have the heart, you know, they
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: want to they want to do it, and it's that
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: you know, really it's like, you know, that's those young
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: guys that you know, they're in high school and you know,
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: just out of high school and they're just pounding away
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: at this and they're developing, you know, their craft and
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: and honing their skills, and don't you need that time?
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: And when you're married with kids, it's like, you know,
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's really hard to do it at that
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: time because you know you're taking away from someone that's
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: much more important, you know than being a good deer hunter.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: So guys could also those guys can also everybody has
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: a different um success platform um and going out finding
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: a even if even if all you're finding and you know,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: if in your state a one twenty is a good
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: deer and you can fire a decent deer. If you
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: can find a one twenty and you don't have a
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: lot of time and you can figure that beer out
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: and you can put a clean shot on that deer,
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: you should be proud of that, dear. If you know
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: especially if you're raising a couple of kids. That's my
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: my trophy standards have gotten lower. Um. And because of that,
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: you know, because of the lack of the time. However,
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: when I kill something now, it just so much sweeter,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: um than the Baiblins I killed fifteen years ago, because um,
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: you know, I killed him with blood, sweat and tears
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: before and now I'm killing the quick clean knowledge. And
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: even though those guys, you know, you don't want to
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: tell those guys that if you're thirty five and you're
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: just now taking it serious, um, you're really never gonna
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: be an elite guy. That's that's not true. I mean
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: everybody's eliteness is different, you know, like I will never
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: be at Joe's caliber. Like I'm I'm not, Um, I'm
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: hunting a different hunting a different you know. It's just
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: a different world, state, different different that. Yeah, yeah, no,
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: and it's but I'm very proud of it. Sounds stupid.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: I've got some you know, some big deer um, and
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: I'm very proud of them that are from other states. Kansas,
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: in in Arizona, in Montana, um. And I'll tell you
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: there's a couple of hundred and ten incres a hundred
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: that are on my floor that are skull mounts that
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: are the biggest trophies, and they came from them from
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: working hard and hard to kill states. So everybody's trophy
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: is different. And if you did a good job and
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: you're enjoying it, um, it really isn't a It sounds stupid,
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: but it is about telling big stuff. But those guys
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: can't feel bad if you're just taking it serious at
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: thirty five and got three kids. Man, go out and
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: live for the moment, even if you only get five cents.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: Breathe that air. That that's whole air, and and take
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: the whole thing in uh and do the best you can.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: You can't compare yourself to um, you know everybody else
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: You've You've got to try and beat yourself every year
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: and be happy with that. That's yeah, because we we
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: really we we all get and I'm bad at I've
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: been bad at this. This big buck thing kills all
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: of us. I mean, it will eat you up and
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: you will become consumed, and sometimes you don't even enjoy it.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: I've got buddies all over the country. They're legit, they're
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: like they're they're world class. Guys um and they'll get
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: so they're passing up one eighties because they know there's
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: a you know, at to eleven and it's like, dude,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: you're killing yourself and that's why they're world class guys.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: But don't, don't, don't get down on yourself killing and
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: fifty at your enjoy it. That's a great buck and
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: and be happy. You know. Yeah, absolutely, man oh man,
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: I am, I am loving this conversation. But we are
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: going to hit pause for one quick second here to
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: take our final break of the day and think our
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: partners at Matthew's Archery. And as we've been discussing over
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: a handful of our past episodes, Matthews launched their new
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: bow this past fall, the Matthews Try Acts, and today
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: we're gonna hear just a bit more about the new
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: rig from world class archer Levi Morgan. You know, the
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: tracks was I think originally built for the white tail
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: hunter tree stand blinds, so compact and uh quiet, but
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: you know, on my adventure arounts, what I found is
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: I love it for everything. I love it for mountain hunts,
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: white tail hunts, tree stand blind it doesn't matter because
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: I love the idea of a compact bow UM, but
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: I only love that idea if I'm not sacrifice and accuracy,
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: and with the tracks, I definitely found out real quick
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: that I wasn't i' is good at shooting bows I've
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: ever shot in my life. It's it's fast and quiet
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: and so small, dead in the hand. Literally it's killing machine.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: And pretty much every scenario we put it through, and
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: we put it through the test last year, a lot
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: of other people I have talked to have just mentioned
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: how quiet is how this new UM stabilizing system and
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: the silencers are making a big impact. Is that something
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: you've noticed too, and is that substantially different than other
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: BOWSY shot? Yeah, I think I've I've learned that for
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: sure throughout the year. I honestly knew it was quiet
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: whenever I shot it. But what we really was kind
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: of the telltale sign was we started, you know, I
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: was hitting animals lower and lower than in the heart
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: because I always aimed low because of white tails ducking
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: on me in the past, and so I've just kind
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: of programmed myself to aim low, and I just kept
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: hitting them right rather aiming and the heart, and which
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: is a good thing, but I felt like I was
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: flirting with being a little too low. So we started
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: going back through the footage this year and it was
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: an amazing at how these animals were just standing there
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: yards taking these shots um with the tracks and not
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: budgeting at all. So I think that was a true
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: testament to how quiet these bows really are. If you'd
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: like to learn more about the Matthews tracks, you can
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: visit Matthews Inc. Dot com. And now back to the show.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: So when you're when you're making this switch, because we've
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: talked a lot about all three of you, and I
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: just want to say the last like twenty minutes you
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: guys have been talking back and forth has been like
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: some of my most enjoyable time on the podcast. Like
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: I should just let you guys just sit here and
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: talk and I should just sit out of it and
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: not say anything. Well, we're going to Iowa in November.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: You can come in video we're gonna do. I like that.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: I like that idea, you guys draw tag Let me know, yeah,
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: the same here man, you could come to New York
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: any time. Trade right, So sore where you guys are
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: talking a lot about these lessons that you've learned. The
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: hard way though, um, and how it took those those
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: challenges for you to now be where you're at at
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: this point. Can each of you, and let's start with you, Andy, Um,
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: can each of you point to a specific challenge that
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: you had as you've been through this journey to become
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: a better hunter for these big mature bucks, So a
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: specific challenge that really changed the game for you. You
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: have this aha moment because of this realization or this issue. Um, Andy,
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: can you start on something like that? Sure? Um, yeah,
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: I mean there's a few, uh, you know, one that
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: stands out is you know, mature deer are are different
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: right there. Not uh, They're not like every other deer
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: in the woods. And that's that's where most guys, probably
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: your most average guys, that's probably where you know they
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: miss step right off the bat. You know, they want
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: to see dear you know, they see you know five,
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: you know, five or six bucks. You know they're coming
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: back in and they're they're bragging about it, or they're
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: they're excited. You know, I saw three point in the
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: six point and the point. You know, a bunch of
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: does and you know that's all fine and dandy, but
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: really a mature deer is a different animal, um, and
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: they behave different they have different tendencies, and that's you
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: gotta you gotta make that switch, um, you know, the
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: hunting a mature deer and really uh kind of learning
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: the tendencies of the mature deer, at least in the
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: area you're hunting. And that's obviously you know, different for
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: different areas. But you know, for for me, Michigan, I'm
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: gonna kind of focus on that. It's you know, I've
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: always had to kind of get close and they're they're
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: close to their betting area and uh, you know, really
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: kind of fine tune that strategy. Um, you know, just
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: getting in tight where they feel comfortable moving in daylight. Um.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: You know, in the next thing, I would probably say
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: like timing. You know, You've I've wrote a couple articles
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: about you know, my first sit, you know, in any
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: location is my best chance at the mature buck. And
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: that's I've shown that time and time again through my
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: own hunts. I think of my kills are on the
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: very first sit in that spot. So you know what
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to do is I'm trying to save those spots,
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: my high percentage spots for when the conditions are right
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: when they're perfect, um, you know, and that might be
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: the time of year, it might be uh, you know,
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: the time of year where that area tends to draw
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: in a mature dear. It might be a mature dear
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: his tendency in that area, like he he shows up
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: you know, early season or maybe you know it's an
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: area where he every year he shows up during the rut.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna focus my sits during that time. Um.
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: So just keeping the pressure level off those spots and
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: moving in when the conditions are right. Um. And then
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: you know, for me, I've talked about it a couple
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: of times. Um, but you've got to be able to
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: pull that shot off on on that deer and you
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: gotta eat you. I'm sure we all know. Um, we
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: probably have a buddy. We probably have a few of
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: them that would have an amazing wall of bucks if
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: they were able to capitalize on the shot. So I know,
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: I do, um, you know, And I know they're gonna
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: listen to this, and and and you know I'm not
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: poking fun at all. I've I've tried to to help
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: you know, most of them through that because I went
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: through it, you know, there was um most of the times. Yeah,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: you know for me, you know, I'm kind of an
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: archery nut, so you know, I'm I'm into archery as
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: I am into hunting, so I I you know, somewhere
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: in the middle of my career, I developed severe target panic,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: UM crazy like to the point where I was I
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: couldn't even put my pin on something without punching off
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: that trigger. And I remember I remember calling Jesse one
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: year and I was like, I don't know if you
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: remember this, Jessie, but I called you. I was like, gosh,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: you know, I think I screwed up on like three
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: big Bucks in like a two week period, and I
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: was like, oh my gosh, I'm so frustrated. And you know,
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: you had like an amazing here he killed that giant
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: in Dansas and you're like, man, I don't I don't
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: know what to say. I feel bad because you could
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: hear you know. It's I was just I was just
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: looking for you know, I was trying to get some
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: advice on like, you know, maybe someone that has been
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: through that. But it didn't sound like you had. But
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: I've never had it. I've always heard of it. I
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: don't believe in that stuff. I don't listen to other people.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: I don't let people get in my head. I don't
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: even want to listen to this. I've been talking my
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: finger in my ear the whole time. No start started
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: talking about something else. Yeah, yeah, but you got you gotta.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: I don't even I don't even think about it. But
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: for me, you know, that was a huge challenge. UM,
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: when I worked through it, Um, you know, I I
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: talked to a lot of guys, a lot of good archers,
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: and you know, I developed a you know, my own
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: way of shooting, you know, and it kind of beat
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: that target panic and for me, it's a much more
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: relaxed way of shooting. There's no anticipation, there's no urge
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: to rush the shot. I'm in complete control. So ever
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: since then, UM, I can say like my shots have
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: all been you know, on the money, and and you know,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: it's a wild animal, so you know, they move sometimes
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: things aren't always perfect, and there's branches and twigs and whatnot.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: But you know, as far as my shot execution, it's
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: where I wanted to be. And and uh, you know
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: that was that for me personally, was a big challenge.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: But I would say those three things you know, kind
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: of some challenging and some you know, you know, I
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: guess stepping stones that kind of helps me be more successful.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: It's great. What about you, Jesse, I hit me with
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: a question. Again, we got so off on that. Yeah.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: So so I'm just curious about what, you know, if
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: there was a specific challenge or AHA moment that happened
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: over the course of your you know, growth as a
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: deer hunter that has made a big difference for you
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: that you can point to. Ah. Yeah, I would say, um,
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: you know, I think everybody does have an AHA moment
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: um and I would say, um, I definitely did when
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: I was probably you know, I grew up um, just
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: a pretty humble farm kid. And really my dad was
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: a good hunter, but he was a meat hunter like I. Actually,
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: I don't think my dad has ever killed a buck.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: He's literally, um, he was always just go out. He's
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: a woodsman, kill rabbits, kill woodchucks, tom fox everything, you
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: sell a pelt, you live out the land type of guy.
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: He's not a trophy hunter. So I just grew up um,
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: and it really turned out good for me. I grew
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: up just truthfully, just a murderer, just just knowing how
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: to move, when to move, when not to move, and
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: kill stuff. Um. My parents divorced when I was really young,
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: so I didn't see my dad a lot. Um. And
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: really one of my jobs that my mom's was, you know,
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: just just kill stuff, just get stuff killed. Um. So
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: you know, when I was probably twenty, I would say
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: I had killed, you know, luckily a couple of decent
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: box but nothing big and I and they weren't calculated kills.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: They were a kid walking out to a tree sitting
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: in it because his dad sat there thirty years ago. Uh.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: And one day I was sitting in a tree, and um,
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: I had seen a good deer in this area, and
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: I thought, why is this deer not here? You know,
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: I'm doing everything. Yeah, my dad taught me, I'm doing
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: everything that everybody tells me to do, and I'm just
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: having average success. And then I realized, like, I'm literally
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: sitting here listening to everybody else's advice, and um, I
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: kind of I it was actually good when I kind
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: of had a fallen out with my dad, so I
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: kind of took everything he had ever said to me
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: in my life and I questioned it and I thought,
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: you know what I got to start evaluating everything and
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: take my own knowledge in my own notes. And I
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: literally remember the moment I grabbed my bow, looked onto it,
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: I lowered it, and I walked out of the woods.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: And I realized right away I had been walking into
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: this woods the way my dad taught me to. Um,
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: we would park the truck on this laneway, walk all
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: the way down this hedgerow with the wind that are
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: act and then walk into the woods and sit in
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: a tree. This is stupid. And I realized right then, like,
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: he's not really that great at a hunter. He's a
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: gun hunter. Um. And right then I started studying how
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: things work. And I literally can't even tell you the
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: confidence that just shot through me right away because I knew,
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: like I already I am gonna I'm gonna be better
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: than my dad. Like this, this is stupid. How could
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: you even contemplate going in the way that we've always
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: been doing it. I started studying other guys, and I realized, like,
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: they're screwing everything up. And that was you know, that
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: was the first year I killed like a hundred you know,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: which for New York is big, Like I think he
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: netted one two. Uh, And I have killed a tope
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: and young buck ever since, every year since. I think
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: there might be one year that I shot one with
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: a muzzloader instead of the ball, But um, but that
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: was and that's, in my opinion, that's something everyone should do.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: I think you should take what Joe says, analyze it
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: and and really think about it. But but don't be
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: afraid question and put it to the test as far
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: as where you live in your style, take what Andy says.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: Don't put anything any of us say in gold and anything.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: These guys right, it's great that they're writing articles and stuff.
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: And I've learned a lot from a lot of their articles,
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: but a lot of it is nonsense. So don't take
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: it uh to heart. Find your own style and find
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: your own way and in master and be a master
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: of your style. And I think that has helped me
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: a lot. I forget. I literally just forgot about everything
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: anybody had ever said to me about hunting. And I
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: started my own studying of how things worked. I kept
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: my own notes and I worked off my own results,
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: and really, um, it has changed and I and I've
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: varied it, but but it's it works. And and that
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: was my turning. That was my big turning moment. And um,
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: I would recommend everybody take advice, but evaluate it and
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: and and test it and then take your own notes.
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: And don't be afraid to be different. Don't be afraid
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: to have a different style. If you notice everything and
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: he says, and everything Joe says, remember the I say,
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: it's really slightly different. And we're all very successful guys.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: Everybody has a style and it works such such great points.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: That's really well said. I can go to agree. Um,
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: you know, you've gotta make your own way. So so, Joe,
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: what would be your take on this question? Yeah, so um,
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: they both said a lot of things I could relate to.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: First off, Jesse, the year background is pretty similar to
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: mine as far as you know. I grew up hunting
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: to eat. Um. You know, we didn't have much money
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: and we needed to put food on the table, and
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: that was my job. And I you know, I started,
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: I killed hundreds of rabbits and squirrels, everything go fall,
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: you know, that was my That was my start. And
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: then yeah, I killed deer for the meat. You know,
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: you get you need a deer, you need food, you
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: kill it, you know. So um, it was very methodical. Um, yeah, yeah,
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: it's fun, but it was, um, you know that's where
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: I developed, um, you know, some sense of woodsmanship and
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: and you know, how to how to move, when to move,
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: when not to move, you know, how to make the shot.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: That kind of thing. It was in my teens. Um.
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: I can definitely relate to that. And then what Andy said,
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: you know, um, definitely an aha moment hunting mature bucks
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: or what they are not just dear you know that
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: was that was kind of the first big when I
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: was deer hunting, you know, I was deer hunting, deer hunting,
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: deer hunting, and then um, yeah, it was you know
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: I wasn't that long ago, and fifteen years ago probably
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: I was realized, you know what I was doing a
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: silly U was sitting in a tree stand, you know,
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: dreaming about a big buck and looking at you know
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: a bunch of those who will buy so um um anyway, yeah,
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: so sorry, my kid just interrupted me. I've been waving
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: in mind, telling go back, go back. I'm yeah, yeah,
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: that's exactly what I did. So, uh, you know, so
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: I can relate to that second um, you know, first
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: time sis, that's kind of um, you know, there was
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: another step in the right direction and a huge improvement
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: in my efficiency when I realized, hey, you know, I'm
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: sitting some spots four or five six times, and I'm
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: killing big buck on the first sit in in the location.
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: You know those spots that are great spots. So I'm
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: gonna try it again. You know, you're not gonna kill
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: that a resident thing buck. They're onto you, so, um,
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: that's true. And and then making the shot, you know
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: you call it target pan or whatever. I did definitely
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: struggle with making the shot early on in my bow
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: hunting career. You know, I had a pretty lousy track record. UM,
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: but I wasn't satisfied with it. UM. I changed my
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: practice routine to better reflect basically real hunting situations. So
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: I wasn't just sitting there, you know, shooting or standing
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: there shooting arrows and my t shirts and flip flops,
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: you know, and that was it. UM. Trying to many
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: coming situations, I get a lot more visualization, and that
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: was huge for me. You know, when I'm sitting in
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: a tree, I'm gonna you know, I'm in the woods,
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about how buck could come by both easy
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: shots and hard shots. What do I have to do
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: to get the shot made. Um And I I don't know,
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: I've just seen a huge improvement in how uh you know,
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: basically my percentage of encounters that result in kills and
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: also you know, missing or wounding animals that I have.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: I'm you know, I've been able to maintain the last
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: called years or so a really good track record of
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: getting the job done. And I put it all towards
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: you know, preparate you know, preparing for the shop, practicing,
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: uh you know, and well visualizing how an animal could
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: could come in and you know, okay, what if he
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: comes in back there and I got to twist around,
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: and what what if I have a split second shot?
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: What do I do? And you know, caring for yeah yeah,
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: um And And it has made the difference on several
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: bucks that I know. If I had thought about that
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: a situation very similar to that beforehand, I wouldn't have
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: killed that buck. But it was, you know, maybe a
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 1: split second shot opportunity where he just paused, but I
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: was kind of expecting it or become in a direction
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: that I wasn't expecting. But I thought, hey, what if
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: a buck comes in back there? What do I have
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: to do to get that shot. How do I have
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: to twist around? You know? Um, and it's it's the
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: eat it happen. So that's that's I guess pretty much. Ship. Um,
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: there's been all you know. There's probably many more, but
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 1: that's that's good stuff. So I want to ask you
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: guys two more questions. I'd like to keep it here
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: for for much longer, but I wasted a half hour
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: your time before we even got this podcast going because
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: of technology. So I need to need to kind of
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: move things along and maybe we're just gonna have to
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: do it five more of these over the course of
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: the next couple of months, because I don't know about
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: you guys, but I could. I could talk to these
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: guys all night. It is so refreshing to talk to
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 1: guys are literally I want to finish their sentences that
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: I know they can finish mine. It's really uh, it's
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: an art. It's it's exciting to talk to guys who
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: literally get it. They literally get it. So I'm fine
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: to stay all night podcast. I'd be good for a
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: little while, but I don't know how my wife could
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: feel if I was here at two. Yeah, I think
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: we've made it clear that Joe is a quitter. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: So so let's let's shift the topic a little bit.
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: And it's something that you guys have alluded to all
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: throughout our conversation. It's always kind of been something you
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: mentioned here, there, something you're thinking about. Um, but I
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: think this is a topic that many deer hunters can
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 1: point to as another one of their AHA moments, that
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: being when they started really thinking about wind in one
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: way or another that also took them to a different
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: level from a deer hunting standpoint. I remember, kind of
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: like you guys all talked about. I grew up just
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: hunting like my dad did. I just walked into the woods,
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: set after a tree, never even thought about the implications
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: of what the wind was doing that day, and just
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: changing that one thing just there's a light switch moment,
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: without a doubt. So let's start with you, Andy, I
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: guess can you talk about how wind factors into what
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: you do, whether that be how you try to avoid
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: getting winded, or how wind maybe impacts where you think
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: deer will be betted or where they'll move or anything
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: like that. Can you talk to me about wind and
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: your deer hunting strategy? Yeah? Um, kvial depends on the
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: time of the year. Um, I suppose, um. But I
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: mean that's probably the first thing I look at on
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: any given days. You know, obviously the wind direction. You know.
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: I I'm not one that tries to beat a deer's nose. Um.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: You know, I I wash my clothes, uh, you know,
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: but that's about it as far as that goes. But
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 1: you know, early season and you know through October when
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of focused more on you know, betting areas. Um,
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm I'm thinking about wind and how
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: they relate to which betting areas would be used in
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: a typical area that I'm that I'm focusing on at
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: that time. So for instance, if there's a you know,
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: if there's a buck you know in this certain area
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: that I you know, has my interests, and I know
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: that he beds, you know on this oxbow you know,
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: with a south wind, you know, then that's what I'm gonna.
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna hunt that deer in October you know, on
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: that wind, um, you know, and try to kill him
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: coming out of that bed. That that would be one
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: example of how I would use you know, wind, you know,
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: on on like a bed based type hunt. Um, you know,
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: maybe switching more towards you know the rut um or
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: or you know, maybe late October, you know when you
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: know scrapes and that types of stuff. You know, that
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: type of sign kind of starts picking up. Um. I
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: haven't really killed a whole lot of deer like sitting
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: over scrapes. That's not really a tactic of mine. But there,
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: you know, there are certain ones that I do find
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: and on rare occasion that I you know, I've heard
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: people call him primary scrapes. But you know, that might
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: be something I might focus on in that late October
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: time frame. You know, maybe after a fresh rain. You know,
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: it rains that night and then you know it kind
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: of cuts off in the middle of the night. That
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: might be a spot that I might try, you know,
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: that next day. Um, you know, if it's a good
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: area or you know, a buck that maybe I want
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: to go after in that area, and I would sit
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: down wind of that street, you know, if I'm using
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: the wind trying to sit down wind of it, not
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: necessarily shoot him on the street, but maybe checking it
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: down wind, you know, and then during the rut, you know,
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm using the wind who more of how a
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: buck would use the terrain and the wind to his advantage.
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: So you know, I might a lot. It's very common
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: for me to sit on downward side of doll betting areas.
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 1: I like the I like those spots. I like them
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: better than your typical funnel um so big mature deer um.
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 1: It's it's a spot where it's the spot where deer
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 1: are going to becoming constantly, you know, when they're searching
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: for dolls and estras. So you know, I put myself
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: in a target Richard environment and the right I'm usually
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: leaving Michigan, so there's gonna be more than one buck
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: in the area probably that I would shoot. So I'm
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: gonna sit that downward side of that dope betting area,
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: and you know, if I'm in the right spot, you
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: know I'm going to have some good action. Typically, um,
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But those are just a few examples
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: of how I use the wind. You know, un hill country,
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: you know there's I don't have a ton of experience there,
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: but I'm always monitoring the wind, and you know, depending
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: on the time of the year, more times than not,
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: they're they're using the wind to their advantage, So you
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: really got to be careful. Um. You know, sometimes when
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 1: you put you've heard this set a million times, and
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: sometimes when you put the wind perfect for you, it's
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: dead wrong for the deer. You know, they might not
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 1: be there in a certain betting area if it's dead
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 1: wrong obviously, or you know, they might not use a
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: certain terrain feature or funnel you know, the way you're
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 1: wanting them too, because the wind simply isn't in their advantage.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of times you gotta cut corners,
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: and you gotta you gotta take some should you know,
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: you hear about just off wind hunting it just off wind.
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: You know, I do that a lot. You know, you
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: gotta you gotta let the deer think that they have
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 1: the advantage and that they're safe. You know, especially a
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: mature deer. They're just not going to move a ton
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: and and show that type of vulnerability where they don't
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: have some sort of wind advantage where they can detect
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: their surroundings or um, you know, or at least when
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: they're they're going after you know, does they're they're they
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: got a mission, you know, the they are on a
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 1: mission to to find out what's in that area and
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: they're going to use their window advantage. You gotta you
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: gotta cut those corners and be close to that, do
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: you think, Andy, Do you think Andy, that a buck
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: like can you say that buck will always if he's
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: heading somewhere, he's always gonna have the wind in his
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: face or crossing his face or something like that, or
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 1: because I know some guys who will say, I'm never
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: gonna hunt somewhere unless a buck could have the wind
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: in his advantage coming towards me. Do you think that's
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: true or can there be exceptions to that? Well? No,
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think that's true. You know, I've
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: seen dear you know, hunting all or moving all sorts
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 1: of wind. But you know, typically if they're you know,
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 1: if they're in an area where they feel safe, you know,
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: typically close to their bedding area, they'll move, you know,
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: with their wind at their back, wind at their side,
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: they'll kind of head in the direction that they kind
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: of want to go. But I do feel um, and
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: it probably depends on the hunting pressure and maybe terrain
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: to some extent, but I do feel like if the
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: wind is there in their advantage, if they can spell
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 1: up ahead, they will move further, and they will move earlier. Um. So,
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: for instance, a hunting this buck um on a property
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: kind of near where I live, and uh, the buck
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: stepped out of his bed and he stood there and
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: he just waited and he left. There was a kind
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: of one of those calm like light and variable winds.
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 1: He sat there for twenty minutes and never moved, and
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: that wind switched just about every direction, and he got
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: a very you know, a very good idea of kind
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: of what was in the area. And uh, you know,
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: when he thought the coast was clear, he started moving.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean he kind of he felt confident
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: that he diagnosed the area, and he started moving, and
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: he moved quite a way you know where if the
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: wind was dead wrong, I don't you know, I don't
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: think he would have ventured off from his security cover
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 1: as far. So. You know, they don't always move with
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: their wind in their face. They obviously can't. But I
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: do think when they have that advantage, especially going going
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: on like a a bed too feed type traveler out,
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: I think they will move further. Um. You know, if
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: they have the wind to advantage, if they can, if
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: they can smell up ahead and kind of scent check
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: those areas that you know, they trust their you know.
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: So that's pretty much, you know, pretty much how I
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: go about it. Yeah, that's that's a great point that
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: I would I would just reiterate you say, you know,
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 1: the big thing is think about what the wind is
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 1: to the deer advantage, and then figure out a way
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: to make it work for you the hunter. That's right.
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: You can't then then you don't have that spot. You know,
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: if you can't figure out a way to get in there,
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: then well that's the wrong spot. You've got to figure
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: out another spot, you know that to make it work.
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: But think of it in terms of the deer first,
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: not you the hunter, Otherwise you always be you know,
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: too far away, right, Yeah, Joe, would you add anything
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: more from how you think about wind or any other
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: facets of that. Um that that's the big thing. Um.
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: Another kind of important point I would make is it's
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: very regional. It depends your adapt their environment so not.
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: And that's not just human hunting, rusher, But I've become
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: very aware of this a little northern Wisconsin. Um, the
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: primary hunters up there are wolves and bears. UM, So
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: I see far more wind to back movement. They're concerned
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: about those predators trailing them down from their scent. So
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: and there the human hunting pressure is a little lower. So, um,
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: look at what the deer doing where you are. That's
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: my advice. And there's going to be patterns and based
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: your hunting based on that now here you know, you
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: know Iowa. Yeah, deer are definitely using wind to their advantage.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: How I would describe it is kind of um. You know,
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 1: they'll they'll move in every which way of wind depending
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 1: on conditions, but around destinations. So that's not just that food,
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 1: but also betting. They are going to try to use
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 1: the wind to their advantage. So entering a food source,
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: they'll a lot of times enter in a low area. Um,
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: I see a big buck. Will you know where thermals
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: might be pooling um and betting. They the vast majority
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: of their time they are jay hooking into betting from
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: the down wind side. Um. So they you know, they
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 1: may be they may be traveling across the wind and
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: they'll hook down wind and they'll come up and then
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: they'll bed um. That's what I see in the Will country.
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: So um, but it's regional. You know, Look what the
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 1: deerre doing. I'm certain to be patterns. You know, wherever
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: the listeners are, there's patterns what they're doing. And based
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 1: your honey, based on you know, how they're moving, according
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 1: to the wind that they are using it, I guarantee
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: that they are using it all right, Jesse, you want
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 1: to wrap this one up on the wind. What are
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 1: your thoughts? Yeah, yeah, you know, I think the wind
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 1: is kind of like the glasses half empty half full.
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: It depends on how you look at it. Um. I'm
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: a big I'm a big fan of the wind. Some
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: people are so you know, the wind kills you. Yeah,
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 1: it does. The wind makes you or breaks you. So
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: you've got to be smart about it. Um. I love
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: the wind. And in today's day and age, if I pray,
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 1: everybody has a weather channel on their phone. If if
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: you're not checking that weather channel before you you know,
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: I'm checking it, you know, six hours before looking at
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 1: it and go okay, the wind's gonna change it at
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: five o'clock. I gotta account to that because I don't
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: want to be sitting my standard at the hit by back. Um,
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 1: so really study the winds and at least where I'm at. Um,
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: it's pretty much always a southwest wind. Um. Those deer
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 1: cannot possibly always move towards southwest. They move with it,
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 1: They're always using it. But you can cheat it. And
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: you've got to cheat them as close as you can
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 1: with the bow and arrow. With a done it doesn't
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: I mean it sounds bad. With a gun, that's a
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 1: completely different world. Just get way, way way away, and
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 1: you know you're gonna kill them with the boat. You
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: gotta cheat that wind and figure out what that wind
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 1: is gonna be and and really play it. Um. But
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of it comes down to pressure too.
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: I think if if these are heavily pressured, they are
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 1: going to come to every food source with the wind
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: in their favor, they're to circle their bed every time. Um.
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 1: If it's early in the season and they haven't been pressured,
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: they're a little more laid back, they're not spooky. You
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: can get away with more. And that's why you've got
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 1: to have that knowledge. Okay, this is um a good
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 1: night to hunt this stand or I've killed so many
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: of my best New York bucks. I really look for
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 1: that oddball north wind or an east wind because I
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: can access so many spots that are honey holes that
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: I can never hunt with a southwest wind, and a
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: lot of times those zero bed with a southwest wind,
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: the thermals will change and the rest of the day
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 1: we're getting an east wind. But those bucks still want
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: to go to where they were last night, and that's
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 1: when as long as they haven't been pressured, they're gonna
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: travel a little bit with the wind at their back.
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 1: And I want to kill them. And man, I had
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: killed so many good ones on a north wind. I
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 1: I'm literally standing in my shop just jumping up and down,
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: and I can't wait to get out of work and
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 1: go because I know I'm going to kill them. I mean,
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: I know, I'm really I'm gonna have an encounter. And
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 1: those odd winds and so many other guys they just
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: go sit the same stand, they aw it's set, and
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: then they have a horrible you know, they have a
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: horrible night. Well, dude, you're hunting a standard set up
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 1: for a southwest wind and it's an east wind. What
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: is your expect? So if I'm hunt in the pocket,
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 1: I've got one spot it's literally like four acres. I
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 1: think I had twelve stands in there. Um, it just
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 1: depends on the wind, and and and once you can
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: slip into it, the winds can be a blessed. It
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: is a blenching. You've just got to use it smart.
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like, you know, wrestling against a really
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: strong kid. Use his strength against them, let him exhaust himselves.
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: And it's the same with hunting the wind man. Just
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 1: use it as a weapon. Use the deer's nose. They
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 1: think that if they can smell nothing, the coast is clear,
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 1: they're they're gonna just walk through. And if you can
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 1: escape that scent, they're screwed. You're gonna smoke them. So
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 1: I love the wind. It's a it's a great tool.
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: And really hunt off winds. I love odd winds, so
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 1: that would be my cake on winds. It's a great perspective. Yeah,
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: that vast majority of my bucks I've killed, You know
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 1: that they were probably within ten feet of smelling me.
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: You know that's right there when I got that shot.
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 1: And then another point on that, A lot of them
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 1: I've killed fiftyds downward into somebody else's spot. You know, yes, yes,
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 1: they're checking them so good. So such good points right there.
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: So how about we wrap it up with this, well,
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 1: number one I'm going to try to convince all of
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: you to come on and do this again someday. So
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 1: whatever I need to do to weasel you guys into
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: doing that, let me know. Um But number two, I'd
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: like to hear from each one of you a story
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 1: of a successful hunt and kill that you think is
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 1: a perfect illustration of what makes you uniquely a a
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: good or successful hunter. So if you can think back
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 1: to a hunt where you kill the buck, that illustrates
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 1: what makes you a good hunter, That's what I'd like
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 1: to hear right now from each of you. And um,
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 1: how about Jesse, let's let's throw it right back to you.
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: Can you think of a story? Man, you hit you
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 1: hit me first. I'm sitting here thinking it's like ordering food.
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 1: I was thinking somebody else have to go first. I
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: can think, um man, I have been so fortunate to
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 1: kill so many good I have some great stories on
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 1: killing does um or killing rabbits and woodchucks. Um. I
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 1: guess the story that would say I was a good hunter,
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 1: I would say jeepers persistence. I'd say I killed one
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 1: um oh a few years ago in Kansas, um and
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 1: where I was shunning there is no trees there's really
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 1: no tree stand hunting. I really enjoy it. It's spotting stock.
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 1: It is um It's like nothing I grew up doing,
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 1: so it's very challenging. UM and I glassed up. I
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 1: glassed up a couple of different beer. I got screwed
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 1: by a couple of other hunters on on publicly, and
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 1: you know, I was kind of getting frustrated. UM And
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 1: I found a bomber of a buck, or to me,
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 1: it was a bomber of a buck. Um and I
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 1: saw this deer running across this prairie. I ran out
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 1: after him. He literally was chasing the dough and chasing
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 1: off ruther buck almost ran me over. I was so
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 1: frustrated I had I mean, he just I couldn't have
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 1: shot him with a gun. I mean he was literally
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 1: with the twenty yards and me just flying with like
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 1: grass that was up to my ankles between us. It was,
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 1: it was. It was awesome. So that buck was so
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: impressive to be next to. I was just like, I
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: don't care, I don't care what it takes. I am
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: killing this deer and I just I went out for
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: the next two days and looked for this deer and
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 1: glass could not find him. I'm sure he was breathing
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 1: the dough somewhere in the middle of nowhere, and I
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 1: ended up glassing him up the next day. It took
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 1: me five or six days. Um in a in a
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 1: it was a new piece of ground and you know,
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 1: an unfamiliar state, and um, I ended up putting a
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 1: stock him another. I think he had four or five
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 1: bucks with him at twelve does so it was just
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 1: a ton of eyes. There is no there's yucca plants.
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's so awesome, it's it was great. Uh,
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: It's probably my favorite hunt in my life. And uh,
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 1: but I mean I kept getting busted, but I was
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 1: smart enough to not get busted by him. I got
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: busted by the satellite bucks that you know. They took
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: off run and then kind of the herd would get
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 1: up and they'd move, you know, three hundred yards. I'd
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 1: have to restock a couple of spots. He was unstalkable,
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 1: and then it was it was kind of like what
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 1: Joe and I were saying earlier. The sun was setting.
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 1: I had already been hunting there for seven or eight days,
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 1: and it was like, I am, I'm going for broke.
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 1: I took off my boots and I ran probably a
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 1: quarter a half mile big circle in this prairie and
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 1: there was a little bit of rain there some rocky bluffs,
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 1: and I took off my boots for the last two
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 1: hundred yards and um man, I had I had these
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 1: little thistles that they have out there, just embedded in
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 1: my feet. I was I was bleeding. I couldn't get
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 1: him out of my feet. Um and I just kept going.
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 1: They were stuck in my thighs. I mean, they're in
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 1: my knees and stuff. And I came around this rocky
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 1: bluff and I could just see him and I arranged
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 1: a rock that was close to him. It was thirty
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 1: eight yards and he was bedded and he was betted
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 1: away from me, and I knew it was gonna be
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 1: I'm getting excited thinking about this is awesome. I knew
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 1: it was gonna be once I trusted that I had
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 1: to draw, step out and make a quick shot because
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 1: they were all right there, and I, you know, I remember,
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: my heart was racing, and it was like this is
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 1: making or break it. This is like your whole trip,
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 1: and it's just all those years of shooting red squirrels
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 1: and and you know, catching snakes and shooting frogs and
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 1: sneaking up on woodchucks. That's when, before I knew it,
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 1: I stepped out, drew my boat and drilled them. And
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 1: all that those instincts of of listening after the shot
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 1: and watching where he went and being patient at all
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 1: paid off and everything. It was like textbook. If you
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: could have had that on video, it would have been phenomenal.
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: And and that was right then I thought to myself, like,
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't even mean to do all this, Like I
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: didn't consciously do any of that. That was just like
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 1: what you said. It was just instinct of being a
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: killer took over. And I was pretty proud of myself.
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: That was a big That was a big public lands
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 1: um white tail, and I was pretty pretty tickled with that.
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 1: So I am so long when it sorry that took forever. Awesome.
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 1: That's an awesome story. Uh Andy, you want to take
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 1: the next one? Yeah? Sure, um man, I kind of
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 1: want to tell the story of my buck from last year,
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: but the story was just posted on the website today,
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: so I'll skip that one. But um that. The next
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: one that comes to mind is probably ironically my biggest book,
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't really have anything to do with the size,
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 1: but um, that was on my birthday November five, and
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 1: I went to a spot it's it's a small spot,
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: um that typically is good during that time frame. UM.
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 1: And it's good because it's a like a river bottom area,
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 1: lots of doughs, and you know, during that time of year, um,
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 1: you know, early November, it typically draws in some bucks.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: And you know, under normal circumstances there's a couple of
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 1: good ones in the area. But anyway, it is highly anticipated, UM,
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite spots. And I drove there, which
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 1: is my house probably probably about and then uh, climbed
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: up in the tree and the wind is just dead wrong,
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 1: completely different than what they said it was going to be.
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 1: And I was like, holy cow, you know, I've been
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 1: kind of waiting, um, you know, hunt that spot. And
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 1: it was it's a it's kind of like a pitch.
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 1: It's a betting area. It's a dope betting area that
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 1: pinches down, so it's a kind of a funnel innovating
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 1: and it's a phenomenal spot. And you know, I may
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 1: have been able to kind of sit it out and
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 1: had some luck, but I was like, you know, I
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 1: just can't. I can't. I've been waiting all season to
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 1: hunt this spot. I can't burn it out on a
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 1: a win that's not perfect. So I climbed down and
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 1: I actually drove thirty three miles back to a different property.
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 1: And the reason I chose that property because there was
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 1: a stand that, um well, a spot and it was
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 1: there wasn't a stand hung, but a spot that I
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 1: had prepped that again year prior. The year prior had
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 1: a very big buck head an the counter with one
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 1: I think it was on November four, so the year prior,
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 1: and this was November five. So I drove to that spot.
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 1: I had my lone wolf on my back and started
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 1: heading towards that spot. On the way to that spot, um,
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 1: you know, I you know obviously kind of peeking around
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 1: and trying to kind of scout my way in sneak
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 1: in this is mid day. Um, I noticed some very
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: large such of tracks big you know, some of the
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 1: biggest I've ever seen. And I kind of, you know,
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 1: looked a little closer and with the binoculars up and
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 1: I saw some rubs that were the size of my thigh.
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, the biggest rubs I've seen in Michigan. And
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 1: I'm looking, you know, from a distance of probably twenty
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 1: yards or so, and I've got the glass on the roads.
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 1: I'm like, holy smokes, you know, and I'm looking in
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 1: their shavings on the leaves like they're on top. This
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 1: just happened, probably today. And then I look on the
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a corner of a standing cornfield that
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 1: was no it's probably a good seventy acres and in
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 1: the middle of that standing cornfield is a big oak tree.
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 1: It's a little kind of like a little oak island
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 1: where a little treats a little owned I guess where
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 1: the corn isn't planted. And then it comes to a
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 1: corner where there's a hardwood and then a set aside
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 1: field like a crpld of CRP over grown field. And
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 1: on that edge of the hardwoods there was a line
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 1: of straight and each one had a little bit of
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 1: urine in it. It was wet, you know. So I'm like, holy,
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 1: you know this, this deer is here. I don't know
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 1: where he's at, what he's here. So I didn't even
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 1: make it to the stand that I was going to.
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 1: I set up, and I set up down when of
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 1: that area had no idea where he was, you know, UM,
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 1: but I figured, you know, he's probably somewhere um, you know,
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 1: probably with the dough. You know, it's that time of year.
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 1: So UM, long story short, I am setting up. I
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 1: think I was set up at like, um, maybe two
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 1: fifty and by three thirty, UM, I had killed the
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 1: biggest buck I've ever shot with a bow and in
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 1: Michigan and ended up being like a hundred and seventy
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 1: two in ten point um. So it was you know,
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 1: it's just one of those one of those scenarios where
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 1: you know, I had to make that call to leave
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 1: an area that was I knew it's really good because
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 1: the wind wasn't right and when I drove, you know,
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 1: thirty three miles to this other spot, had another spot
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 1: in mind where the wind was perfect. When I came
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 1: across that hot sign and when I said hot, it
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 1: was hot like it was. It was you know probably
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 1: that there's just a couple of hours maybe before I
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 1: was there, um, and I was able to set on it,
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 1: set up on it because I always kind of have
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 1: a I'm very mobile, so I'll always have a few
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 1: little two steps and my mobile stand, you know, ready
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: to go, you know, in case something like that happens.
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 1: And then it happened on that day and I set
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 1: up on it and it paid off on my biggest
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 1: buck ever. Man, that's awesome. That's a that's a really
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 1: great illustration of a lot of those things you've talked about. Joe,
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 1: Do you wanna do you want to try to wrap
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 1: it up with one more story here for us? Yeah? Sure,
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, I'll I got a lot of stories saying,
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 1: I know we could go round and around for another
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 1: six hour. Um. Yeah, So I'll tell a story of
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 1: bucket shot a couple of years ago on public land. UM.
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 1: I've shot bigger bucks. Um, but this buck, I don't know,
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 1: just I plane outsmarted him, just just you know, just
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 1: outwitted him. And that that feels pretty good when you
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 1: do that. Um. Anyway, that this buck was feeding on
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 1: off the off the field all summer long. UM. I
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 1: had a camera soaking on one side of the field
• 2:23:34
  Speaker 1: months of months of August and September. Um, I was
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 1: kind of just doing some low impact scouting before the season.
• 2:23:43
  Speaker 1: Checked the camera and it was right on the field
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 1: edge and there was this really big nine pointer coming in,
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 1: huge body. You had average antler, I mean real nice,
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 1: he's under four class, but m huge, hulking body was
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 1: coming in on this side of the field and it
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 1: was in the dark. Um, almost all the pictures were
• 2:24:03
  Speaker 1: in the dark unit September, but it was just after dark.
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 1: And he was also favoring at the north and northeast
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 1: winds to come into the field on that side. Well,
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 1: it's on public land, UM. And the edge of the field,
• 2:24:17
  Speaker 1: or the edge of the public land, wasn't that far
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 1: back from the edge of the field was a couple
• 2:24:20
  Speaker 1: of hundred yards of timber that I had for public.
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 1: But I suspect the scouted all all that area in
• 2:24:26
  Speaker 1: the past, and I knew if he was betting, he
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 1: was petty, probably betting across the fence on private and
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 1: then coming onto the public and then up to the
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 1: field in the dark. So I had, you know, the
• 2:24:39
  Speaker 1: preferred wind condition, and I had you know, my guestimated
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 1: travel route from UM based on you know, cyber scouting.
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 1: Looking at that private property next to the public, I
• 2:24:53
  Speaker 1: mean I figured he was betting within a hundred hundred
• 2:24:55
  Speaker 1: and fifty yards of the fence, and I thought I
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 1: could set up basically right next to the fense and
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 1: get a chance at him in daylight and so and
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 1: that was on September. You know, season opens October one.
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 1: I know, patterns changed fast. Um. I had to get
• 2:25:09
  Speaker 1: on him so October one. By luck, I had the
• 2:25:12
  Speaker 1: right wind. It was like a northeast wind. I slipped
• 2:25:14
  Speaker 1: in there on mobil. Um. I haven't pre hung a
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 1: tree stand in a long time, set up in my
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 1: tree saddle. Um and his luck would have it. There
• 2:25:27
  Speaker 1: was a guy cutting firewood like back on the private
• 2:25:30
  Speaker 1: land in the general area where I thought that buck
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 1: was betting. He never showed. UM. And this spot's kind
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 1: of hard to described, but you know it's kind of
• 2:25:39
  Speaker 1: a bottleneck. There's several French crossings on the side of
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 1: a ridge where they're coming from the private down the
• 2:25:45
  Speaker 1: ridge of the ridge up ultimately to hells off the field.
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 1: And um, you know I had to cover everything. I
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 1: was set up right in the middle of stuff, you know,
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 1: kind of going for broke stuff could stuff that was
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 1: coming past me, could smell me behind me. But I
• 2:26:01
  Speaker 1: you know that's where I had to be to get
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 1: the shot. Well, I got out October one time. He
• 2:26:06
  Speaker 1: didn't show. I did see it a little bucket, think
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 1: and a dough but UM got out of there, and
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 1: just part of me my gut said, and this is
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 1: where you know it's important to listen. You got my
• 2:26:18
  Speaker 1: gut said, it's worth hunting that spot again. So a
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 1: week later, October seven, I had the exact same win, UM,
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 1: and I went in there, but I did not pick
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 1: the same tree. I figured that buck was kind of
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 1: a home body in there all the time. He would
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 1: smell my ground set if he was going to probably
• 2:26:37
  Speaker 1: adjust his travel route to be coming in coming, passed
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 1: down wind, further down wind. So I moved. I moved
• 2:26:43
  Speaker 1: about thirty yards as all. That's all I could move
• 2:26:46
  Speaker 1: and out now it's like twenty yards in the fence line. Um,
• 2:26:50
  Speaker 1: and uh, sure enough he came in. It was perfect.
• 2:26:53
  Speaker 1: He came in pop the fence. He was probably five
• 2:26:58
  Speaker 1: ft five ten ft frommell on me, and he was
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 1: a full fifty yards down the wind. In my original
• 2:27:04
  Speaker 1: set up, he would have smelled me, and I would
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 1: have never gotten a shot if I hadn't adjusted that
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 1: set on that a second on that second set. And
• 2:27:11
  Speaker 1: I and I don't know, I'm big about how the
• 2:27:15
  Speaker 1: kill goes down. I guess for me like I've really
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 1: take a high, you know, I take a lot of
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 1: pride and like a quick, clean kill. And I shot
• 2:27:25
  Speaker 1: that deer to the top of the heart. He had
• 2:27:27
  Speaker 1: no clue what hit him. He like hopped about fifteen yards,
• 2:27:31
  Speaker 1: stood and then he just went straight down like just
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 1: both dead, you know. And I still remember that, and
• 2:27:38
  Speaker 1: that's I don't know, between just playing outwitting him. He
• 2:27:41
  Speaker 1: thought he had you know, he knew there was an
• 2:27:43
  Speaker 1: hunter in the area, but he figured, well, I can
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 1: sneak through and if there's a guy up there trying
• 2:27:48
  Speaker 1: to kill me, I'll smell him. You know. I know
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 1: deer can't think, but you know, he was avoiding my
• 2:27:53
  Speaker 1: first set. I'm certain of it, and he thought, you know,
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 1: and I guessed right. I made the shot and he
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 1: was dead. He had no clue what I am. And
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 1: it just, oh, you know, I love that. I feel like, man,
• 2:28:08
  Speaker 1: that that is a great a great story. And uh,
• 2:28:12
  Speaker 1: as we've as we've been doing this, I have just
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 1: been getting more and more and more amped to get
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 1: back in the woods and start scouting or keep scouting,
• 2:28:22
  Speaker 1: start hunting again. This is just this is this is
• 2:28:26
  Speaker 1: what's all about. You guys are an inspiration. It's cheesy
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 1: as that sounds. You guys are inspiring me right now. Um,
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 1: this is just exciting stuff. There's been a lot here.
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 1: I think people can learn from you. Guys have said
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 1: an awesome example, and you've shared so much, and uh,
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 1: I just appreciate it. So we're gonna have to do
• 2:28:45
  Speaker 1: something like this more in the future, and until then,
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 1: thank you guys so much. Yeah, thanks, thank you guys.
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 1: It's a pleasure talking with all of you. It's really
• 2:28:56
  Speaker 1: great to uh can burst back and forth with guys
• 2:29:00
  Speaker 1: with your tailber. Thanks for having me Mark. Yeah, thanks,
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 1: thanks guys. I appreciate it. It It was a lot of fun.
• 2:29:07
  Speaker 1: So yeah, do it again, give me a call. Yeah,
• 2:29:12
  Speaker 1: it's yeah, Yeah, it's uh, it was. It's been a
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 1: good time. You know, I look up to both of
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 1: these guys, are both you know, very motivating and uh
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 1: obviously great hunters. And you know, thanks for having me
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 1: to Mark. Hey, my pleasure. Someday I hope I can. Yeah,
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say someday, I hope I can stand
• 2:29:36
  Speaker 1: in your company as an equal. I'm working on it.
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 1: I would point out really quick, you know, how people
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 1: conduct themselves is important A lot of people out there
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 1: kill big Bucks. Like you know, then there's lots of
• 2:29:49
  Speaker 1: ways to kill big Bucks. And you know, um, part
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 1: of my friend. But like if you turn into a
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 1: dick measure and contest, I don't have any time, you know.
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 1: I I like how people, you know, I like both
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 1: the way both of you. You know, you're classy about it.
• 2:30:06
  Speaker 1: You know there's always something more to learn. Um. You
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 1: never you know, never air again about it. Um. And
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 1: that that kind of thing speaks for itself in my opinion.
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 1: So yeah, well said, I agree with that as well.
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 1: And and the interesting thing if you I don't know
• 2:30:22
  Speaker 1: if you guys were, but mentally, as you guys are talking,
• 2:30:26
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what you're saying. And I think if
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 1: you notice all of the guys, uh, the other guys,
• 2:30:32
  Speaker 1: anytime somebody was speaking, you could the wheels returning. These
• 2:30:36
  Speaker 1: guys are definitely students at no at no matter what
• 2:30:40
  Speaker 1: level they're at. UM, they're computing what I'm saying, and
• 2:30:42
  Speaker 1: computing with each other is saying and in agreeing or
• 2:30:47
  Speaker 1: or adding to it. And to get to the next level,
• 2:30:49
  Speaker 1: that's the mindset you have to have. And that's why
• 2:30:51
  Speaker 1: these guys are successful. They get it and when they
• 2:30:55
  Speaker 1: when somebody's speaking, they're listening. And I've learned a lot
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 1: from brilliant guys. I've learned a lot some really stupid
• 2:31:03
  Speaker 1: guys that stupid hunters. They killed the giant, and I
• 2:31:06
  Speaker 1: think to myself, how did he kill it? Well, he
• 2:31:08
  Speaker 1: killed it because he did something stupid that I would
• 2:31:11
  Speaker 1: never think of doing. And you learned from that. And
• 2:31:13
  Speaker 1: these guys are students of the game and they're learning
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 1: from everybody around them. That's a great point. I would
• 2:31:19
  Speaker 1: just mention. I like reading like North American white Tail,
• 2:31:22
  Speaker 1: like their big Buck profile or whatever they call um,
• 2:31:25
  Speaker 1: because a lot of them are like complete blind luck,
• 2:31:29
  Speaker 1: like this guy killed then and bodiens non typical, and
• 2:31:33
  Speaker 1: but it's like it's it's luck, but it's not luck,
• 2:31:36
  Speaker 1: you know, Like, yeah, he just happened to choose that spot.
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 1: He walked into the woods randomly as the meat hunter,
• 2:31:41
  Speaker 1: and he had this giant. But like, like I looked
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 1: behind the scenes at the story and all these things
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 1: are like, yeah, their first time sits or you know,
• 2:31:49
  Speaker 1: the guy's not mucking up the spot with checking his
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 1: jail killer every three days or so. Yeah, so true
• 2:31:56
  Speaker 1: that that's that's such a going to learn something from everybody,
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, yeah, well to definitely do this again.
• 2:32:04
  Speaker 1: There's some there's so many other things to keep talking about. Yeah,
• 2:32:08
  Speaker 1: we've only we've only scratched the surface, that's for sure.
• 2:32:11
  Speaker 1: I feel there's a thousand more questions I'd like to
• 2:32:13
  Speaker 1: ask in top us to cover. But next time, and
• 2:32:18
  Speaker 1: there you go are two hundred episode is in the books,
• 2:32:23
  Speaker 1: and like I said, I think it was at the
• 2:32:25
  Speaker 1: end of last episode. Thank you guys for making this
• 2:32:28
  Speaker 1: all possible. It's been a heck of a ride, and
• 2:32:31
  Speaker 1: uh really looking forward to where we can take things next.
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 1: Uh that said, I've kept you here a long long time.
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 1: I think this is our longest episode ever. So we'll
• 2:32:41
  Speaker 1: shut this down here real quick. Just want to wrap
• 2:32:43
  Speaker 1: it up by thanking our partners at Sitka Gear, Yetie Cooler's,
• 2:32:47
  Speaker 1: Matthew's Archery, Maven Optics, the White Tail Institute of North America,
• 2:32:51
  Speaker 1: Trophy Ridge and hunter ra Maps, And finally, thank you
• 2:32:55
  Speaker 1: all for listening. Good luck out there if you are
• 2:32:57
  Speaker 1: doing some scouting or some ship hunting of your own,
• 2:33:00
  Speaker 1: and until next time, stay wired to hunt. H