Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / What was "Peak Car" and do we need Traction Control?

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What was "Peak Car" and do we need Traction Control? · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

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John Summers is the motoring historian.
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He was a company car thrashing technology sales rep that turned into a fairly inept
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sports bike rider hailing from California.
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He collects cars and bikes built with plenty of cheap and
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fast and not much reliable.
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On his show, he gets together with various co-hosts to talk about new
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and old cars driving motorbikes, motor racing, and motoring travel.
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Good day.
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Good morning, good afternoon.
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It is John Summers, the motoring historian.
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Today with Mark Gamy.
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I always open with a little anecdote.
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Don't I always come straight to the point now To kidding.
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You know, keep a pace up and all.
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We're always open with a little anecdote this time.
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Little anecdote, uh, mark features Ollie carting.
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We, uh, went and looked at some gas carting over the weekend.
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That all felt very, very real.
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Up at Sonoma, but, uh, earlier in the week, did hiss first like Grand
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Prix at electric carting due to a, a weird set of circumstances.
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Let me be candid with what they were.
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Two sessions where they control these electric carts, they control
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'em from the pits, how much power they've got, and so for the.
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First two or three laps.
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You can't really do a fast lap because they don't wind the power
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up or the tires aren't warmer.
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I don't know quite.
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Anyway, whatever.
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All these fastest laps are always lap five, six, or seven.
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Well, on this occasion, one of the carts ran out of battery,
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so they came back into the pits.
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And, uh, whilst they were in the pit, um, and they came, so
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they came back into the pit.
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So, so there were two short qualifying sessions, so he didn't really lay
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down like the best that he could do.
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And that meant that instead of being in the A main for the actual Grand
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Prix, he was like in the B but he was on the front row of the bee.
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Mm-hmm.
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So at the start, the guy on pole chops over on him and he touches
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the back of the car, loses momentum.
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Into the second turn, there's like a shoot down to the second turn.
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It's a heaven three abreast with a guy who's third who's got a clean start
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and of that turn, they get through that turn cleanly, but out of that turn,
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Ollie loses the drag race and is third.
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Yep.
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Pole guy, little guy couldn't have been more than seven or eight years
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old, is disappearing off up the track.
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Ollie is valiantly climbing all over the back of the third place guy.
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This goes on until lap three.
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A clean pass is AC between laps three and six.
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Steady progress is made catching the leaders disappeared up the road and
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for the last six laps, they weren't more than two feet apart all the time.
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Super clean racing.
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The other lad's parents like couldn't contain themselves.
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Like I couldn't be looking at them because it was that, like it was
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that year that Manser was leading the Monaco Grand Prix, had to get tires,
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came out and was all over the back of center, and Cena just had to make no
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mistakes and center made no mistakes.
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But boy did mantle try hard and boy did Ollie try hard.
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Diddy especially try hard with the back markers.
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But, um, this other lad crossed the line, a clear half a cart length,
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a head volley, both of them did their fastest lap on the last lap.
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Cool.
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Two really cute podium ceremony and, you know, parents shaking hands and general
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sort of, uh, of warm feel all around.
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And I missed the punchline there as I'm wont to do.
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Was that.
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In the park ferme afterwards, the first thing all he did when he got out of his
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car before coming over to us or removing his helmet, he took his glove off and
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shook hands with the guy who'd beaten him.
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And I said that to him afterwards and on the way home.
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He was like, well, yeah, I'd had a really good race.
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You'd given me a really good race.
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That's the best race I've ever had at K one.
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Awesome.
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So, uh, you know, proud Parent, they're more partly for the speed and the racing,
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but of course also for the gentleman you nurse, which, you know, feeds in than
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to, uh, one wanting to, to do it further.
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So, yeah.
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I'd already planned to sacrifice my Saturday, taking him up to Sonoma to
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see what was happening there, but I was a whole lot more keen to do it on the,
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on the back of the performance there.
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And up at Sonoma, it was this series, KFX, carting.
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It's definitely real.
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These are like rotax carts.
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I don't know how fast they go.
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The, the stuff online said they do 75 miles an hour.
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It didn't look that fast to me, it looked more like 35 or 40.
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To me.
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Maybe it's the nature of the circuit at Sonoma, maybe they had the power turned
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down for what was meant to be a test day.
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But yeah, there were kids Ollie's age and size out there
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on the track with like adults.
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'cause there's three series, there's like a junior series, like a, a teen
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series and then a masters series for old fogies people older than uh, 32.
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I was watching um, world Superbikes Today.
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My brother-in-law, uh, has got a Discovery plus login, which is Motor
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GP and World Superbikes in the uk.
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And other stuff they can burn.
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All the rest.
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As far as I'm concerned, it's mo g being one superbikes that,
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that, that channel's four.
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And the art of the block pass.
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So you are not quick out, but you are quick in and you position your bike such
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that the other guy can't come back out.
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You afterwards might be a karting thing as well, I suspect so you might
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want to get him to have a little look 'cause you know what I mean?
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Often that it's about carrying momentum, but for clean passes and stuff, sometimes
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you have to park it on the apex and be like, I'm lucky son, and then you,
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you know, you are slow behind me out.
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Maybe he wants to do a bit of watching a bit of WSB or a bit of motor GP to see
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how those boys are doing their passes.
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You could probably learn a bit.
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That's really good advice and, and really useful because, uh, he's
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really good with the, uh, with the racecraft and these carts are so wide,
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especially the, the electric ones.
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Now, he has found the way to pass people is, is the way guys like.
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Hamilton or, or path people that you come up and firstly they know,
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they see how fast you come up.
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And then secondly, you do that thing where you like stand off and you
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look for an opportunity and when you see it, you lunge, you know?
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Mm-hmm.
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And, and he's done, uh, a reasonable job at that over the years.
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You know, like perfecting that and not getting frustrated.
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There was one race where he is really frustrated behind somebody,
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and I was like, that's the last race where you're gonna be like that.
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You know, in future you're gonna fall off and come back at him and find another way.
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Because what he won't do is always, he's like Dale, Jr. He
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won't, you know, he's not a ram.
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Not at all.
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No.
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But selling the dummy can also be good.
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I'm fast here.
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I'm fast here.
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And then being, especially because you remember, um, you remember that race
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where Alonzo defended against Schumacher for ages and Schumacher came in and came
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out again, and Alonso did a ridiculously fast in lap in order to keep him behind.
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And then for the last 15, 20 laps, he was all over him and he had a faster car
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and Alonzo would just be deliberately like quick down the straight and then
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deliberately slow into the skis so Michael couldn't get him and then was boxed
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up behind him and then was inevitably, you know, after car length later onto
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the accelerator and couldn't get him.
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And you're right, it's the sort of, I just have to drive perfectly.
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You can't get me even though you've got a faster car.
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Because the, the fluff on Mansell and center then was, if I recollect.
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From people like James Hunt watching it.
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He was never gonna get him driving like that.
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No.
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He was all over him, but he wasn't.
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He wasn't all over him.
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He didn't try once Palla in the only place you've got and set everything up for that.
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He was all over him trying to do it in unusual places and all that sort
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of thing, which was super exciting.
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I remember the Grand Prix.
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But Hunt was like, nah, great, but you ain't winning it.
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Although I think his also fallback position was, it's
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Monica, you ain't winning anyway.
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Yeah, I mean, Ollie had six laps and afterwards Ley discussed the
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race mourned that he hadn't had.
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The three that he would've had had there not been further valid point 50%.
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You, you know what I mean?
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I'm just like, I'm, I'm just at a stage where if I see him improving in every
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race, I see his race craft getting better.
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And if we are having fun.
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It's just, dude, I totally agree and you know, it's, what I didn't say
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is what if I was like, I don't know, some sort of hardass race coach.
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It's like, well, I'm being happy with losings, like a loser's mentality
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and like, you know, what do you doing if fucking celebrate in second
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fuck off with all of that shit?
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I absolutely celebrate the sport in that aspect of it.
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It should be fun.
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So I went to Lodi yesterday and got the E 55.
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It's the first time I think, since probably last August's run.
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I went down Modesto and then came home.
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So I put, I've probably put 200 miles on it since, and it's.
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Still probably needs a wheelbarrow.
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It runs really well.
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Rolled over 162,000 miles.
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I drove the most awesome road, California one 30 from Patterson West to the
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James Lick Observatory and then down into San Joe's, and then, uh, got
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on the free whistle and drove home.
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Basically this observatory overlooks the valley from the view at the top.
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You can look over the bottom of the bay and Silicon Valley, and I drove over
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there right as the sun was setting.
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It was not planned.
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It was.
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Absolutely awesome.
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The road is way too long.
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I mean, way too long for you to do it regularly.
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I have done it before once on that whole CBR race bike.
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When I took it out to storage in Sali, just because of
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the way that the route was.
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I must have, but it's too long.
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It's like took.
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Absolutely hours, and it switchbacks with sheer drop off, so you don't
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want to be doing it at night.
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It's gravel roads, but it's, it's also stop for a P at
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the side of the road, right.
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Not only do know cars come by, but there is no sound.
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And you're like, wow, I'm in the Bay Area, but I'm not.
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So that California one 30 was, was really a fine, but my other thought was,
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so that's the E 55 running perfectly.
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Not sure if we talked about this before, but a colleague
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Dana's at work has, uh, 2019.
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E 63 s wagon.
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Lovely car.
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You say probably was before it needed a new motor at 40,000 miles.
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What'd he do to it?
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Well, that's your thought, isn't it?
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It came from Carvana.
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It was used, it was, you know, certified if that means anything from Carvana.
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The point is, this is not the first of these incidents with
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these recent E 63 motors.
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I'm not s slate in Mercedes particularly.
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I am just saying that I do not believe modern cars.
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Are being made with the same, or cars for the last 10 years have
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been made with the same integrity of those that have been, that were made
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in the, at the turn of the century.
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I used to struggle before up until this last Pebble Beach.
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If you'd have said to me, Pete Carr is the year 2000, I'd
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have said, no, it's the 1960s.
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I'm almost now agreeing with the Ed Bullions and the 40 somethings and
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when I said that to Ollie for Ollie, it's like, it's obvious, right?
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But think of it, this is my, uh, you know, I'm more of an older generation than me.
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We understand why the GTO's the most valuable car.
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We even kind of get Dusenberg, the Ed Boian 40 something generation.
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They.
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See McLaren's as awesome and they kind of get the GTO 'cause they kind
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of get that previous generation.
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This is my, uh, conjecture.
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Yeah.
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But I can, I can sort of go with that.
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I mean, it's, it's, it's peak car 2000 that's the question.
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I I, it, it would what's peak car?
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I mean, it's like peak car in what category?
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I mean, because they can't all be the same in the sense that, you
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know, if McLaren F1 is peak car, if you like, in terms of supercar.
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Or ultimate car if you want.
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You know, that's not an everyday car.
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I know it could be used every day, but it's not practical.
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You know, you need to, you need other cars if you're gonna have something like that.
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So then you want a peak car in your, I know, hot hatchback territory or peak car
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in your saloon car territory you want.
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So there's a bunch of horses for courses here.
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The best car I've ever owned is that 2007 Nissan.
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Nissan three 50 z. It was the best car in terms and I for this is the
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best car for another, for Stu, my mate who's owned one as well and
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has owned a bunch of other stuff.
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He would, well, last time I spoke to him, he said it was still the
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best car he'd ever bought as well.
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And he's had Tvrs and all sorts of stuff.
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And I think what I'm saying there isn't so much, it's the best
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car is there's a balance for me.
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A bit like I was looking, some old photos that we'd taken on holiday,
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like in the US on road trips and stuff, but in the very early ones and
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the camera phones aren't up to it.
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So the pictures you've got from there were taken on the same sort of like,
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uh, spring day, beautiful sunshine, you know, out and about in the nature.
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So there's great light, but the pictures just aren't as good a res. And I
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think it's the same with cars as well, in terms of the overall experience,
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because for me, what did that have?
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It had basic traction control.
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A nice stereo and just really good rear bias, mechanical grip.
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Even by that, when we were coming, I think we were coming off the M 50 bit
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up outta whale, under the roundabout and the M five and then on the up ramp
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on, so we were coming on from nine o'clock and then going round and then
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going onto the m, the M five, going south towards Bristol at six o'clock.
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And I remember it was late at night.
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It was, it's a well lit, really wide sort of three name wide piece of, um.
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A road or two lane might at least there was nobody there.
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And I came round it pretty quick on the, in on, coming into the roundabout 'cause
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you've got a massive long sight line.
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There's nowhere there was able to come onto the throttle really early.
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'cause it's uphill on the, on the, on the on ramp.
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You were surprised at how early and how hard?
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I could and, and committedly I could come onto the throttle and just stay on it.
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The Sierra was a, was a, was an amazing car.
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I didn't have the horses or, but had fundamentally honest performance,
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honest sort of chassis characteristics.
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But that is that taken to another sort of the exponential up level of
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usable, everyday practical, not eating you at the petrol tank delivering
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you, you know, 300 plus horsepower.
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Although, geez, the geezers them, modified them for me.
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Reckon they've never produced actual 300 horsepower.
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But it was a chunky toy power.
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And it really sort of gave you what you want.
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So again, you can go from there and the earlier back you go, you
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start to lose some of the aids.
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So how much aids do you want?
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Do you want to cater 'em from the 1950s with nothing?
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Or do you want everything like today with parking assist and lane assist and
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fucking ass wipe assist and all the other bullshit that you have to turn off on,
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off every time you get in the fucking car?
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There's a happy medium somewhere.
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And I think it's very personal what that is.
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Yeah.
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Well, and and peak car you are right is somewhere in the middle of that.
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And I guess it's toggling to where that is.
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Course the car I had throughout the time that you add that Nissan three 50 is
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that, oh one bullet Mustang that I've done sort of similar miles in that you,
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well, I've done 170,000 miles of madness.
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Probably not, no, not as many as you've done in there.
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Um, I've done about 75.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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You've done a lot more in that Nissan.
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Interestingly about the claimed 300 horsepower not
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being in real 300 horsepower.
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I remember when, when we did a Grand Canyon drive, not long after I had
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the Mustang, and I remember you commenting then that the seat of the
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pants feel was not a million miles away, which I'd expected it to be.
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'cause that was as stated.
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2 75 horse.
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So I expected that to be less than the Nissans.
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And I wondered if it was a bit down to the V eight talk with that.
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Yeah, it could be because I, I think that was on the trip when we went
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to the, was it the Southern Rim job?
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Grand Grand Canyon.
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It, it was, yeah.
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Yeah.
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I, I actually have someone, I dunno where they are, I have photos from, from that
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trip, but I remember picking you up at the airport and driving out of the airport
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and being like, fuck Vegas, and finding a pizza place on the edge of Vegas and
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eating pizza on the trunk of the car before the adventure commenced my own
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comment on there in the Grand Canyon.
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Southern Jo.
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Having done both banks, if you like, the southern rim is better 'cause
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you can drive along it for a bit.
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Yeah.
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Whereas Northern Rim, it's pretty, but you have to drive along a
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bullshit slow, windy road that could be good, but you know, it's dead.
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Endy turnaround stuff.
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The bits before are quite pretty, especially coming
17:04
over the hills and stuff.
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It's like you get there, you walk through and there's loads of like, you
17:08
know, tat for sale and then you get to view it and then you go away again.
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Whereas Southern Rim job, you could drive around.
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Um, hidden joke there obviously, but uh, you could drive around for like miles
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and stuff and get your own sort of hang on the edge, just chill out on your own
17:22
quiet Grand Canyon rather than having to share it with thousands of other people.
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Well, of course, the other thing we did on that trip, which I've forgotten all
17:28
about was, uh, the helicopter flight.
17:30
Oh yeah.
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And, uh, uh, we should say this, that as lovers of Duns and Dragons and,
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uh, and yeah, my own d and d campaign very much based on Robert E. Howard
17:41
and Kona, the barbarian, um, for the helicopter to dive into the Grand Canyon
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and it'd be playing the music from Cannan the Barbarian at the same time.
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That really was a, uh, that really was a me memorable moment, wasn't it?
17:55
Yeah, that was cool.
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Uh, a memorable moment.
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Ah.
18:00
But yeah, we were on peak car when we, before we, uh, wandered off into
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dragons and the uh, and the Grand Canyon.
18:05
We were on peak car.
18:06
Yeah, but I, alright, so, but, but let's come back to where Peak
18:11
Car isn't now, is it For sure.
18:13
No.
18:13
I mean, I guess, but did we think of that in 2000?
18:17
I wonder if we did, because back in 2000, if you'd have asked me what I wanted, like
18:21
you could have anything, what would you I'd have, I'd have said a gun mail M five.
18:27
Yeah.
18:27
I mean, I think you what?
18:27
You like me like most motoring people, if you're honest with it yourself.
18:31
Would probably, there would be some underlying favorites, some sort of, you
18:34
know, ACD CS and Slayers and stuff that stay with you permanently, if you like.
18:38
But there's also gonna be a new favorite every 18 months as
18:41
well, in a greater, less extent.
18:43
'cause, you know, yeah, yeah.
18:44
You would say that.
18:45
But I think you would've also said at one point.
18:48
Di Ablo SV in orange and stuff like that.
18:52
I still might say that.
18:53
Well, exactly.
18:55
Probably.
18:57
And again, it's difficult, isn't it?
18:58
Because like modern days, you could absolutely argue.
19:00
I watched Chris Harris's YouTube channel's review of the F 80,
19:04
the new Ferrari Ultra car, and I think I sent it to you in Newton.
19:08
If you haven't seen it, go to YouTube and watch it.
19:10
It's one of the best drone shot videos.
19:15
I've ever seen of stuff.
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The new drone pilot he's got is something special.
19:20
He's rinsing it around fiorano in massive tail slides and the drone
19:25
is hovering 20 feet above the rear tailpipe as he is following it
19:28
and following him through corners.
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The final shot for me, the PA resistance, and I saw that you on this.
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Chris, if I have a meteor, you I'll shake your hand for it.
19:35
His final review of the car is him standing and it's, it's a shot that's
19:40
obviously Ferrari have told them about.
19:41
They know about in the hills.
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Where you can get out and have the car and just the beautiful Italian hillsides
19:47
behind with nothing else much there.
19:49
And the whole video, it's like a two minute sign off where he talks about
19:52
the car and the drone flies in a perfect circle all the way round him.
19:56
So you never see any camera people.
19:58
He's just talking to the camera the whole time turning and talking
20:01
to the drone all the way round.
20:02
And it's a really beautifully, the whole thing is just up personified.
20:06
But if you take that car.
20:08
I don't like the looks of it much.
20:09
I think it's a bit ugly.
20:10
It doesn't win in against McLaren.
20:12
W one in the, you know, the 10-year-old boy poster stakes is losing hands down.
20:16
But Harris's review, and I've seen, I've read a few others, is that it
20:19
is unbelievable that they have taken what is essentially a, a hypercar
20:24
and turned it into something you could genuinely, if you were.
20:26
Ross Perot's, Nepo baby.
20:29
Spend all your time driving around him and maybe that's why it's not so good looking
20:33
so that you can get away with that.
20:35
That's so much tech.
20:37
I mean, it's gonna have a 20,000 mile service in the book.
20:39
So much tech.
20:41
It's gonna have a 20,000 mile.
20:42
What?
20:42
No, no.
20:43
I say it's not gonna have a 20,000 mile service in the book, is it?
20:46
There's so much tech.
20:47
Everything in it is tech and tech and tech.
20:49
But that's too much for me.
20:51
Well, where, where do you pair back to?
20:53
Because, you know, I think you would accept that the go-karts and the
20:55
caters and the sort of re, you know, the sort of cars of our childhood, if
20:58
you like, where TCS quo, what I mean?
21:02
No, what's that?
21:04
Well, I, I remember when Traction Control first came out feeling like it was.
21:08
Somehow not the real thing.
21:11
It was almost like, it was like a different version of automatic, it was
21:14
very similar to automatic transmission.
21:16
It was like you weren't really involved, but it was also, it was
21:19
like, it was almost like, I tell you what, it was the beginning of your
21:23
mom riding with you in the car, and so are you sure you wanna do that?
21:28
Just slow down there.
21:30
It was the beginning of that, wasn't it?
21:32
It really was.
21:33
It, it, it's sort of been there passively before with seat
21:37
belts even with Understood.
21:39
But it really came with traction control.
21:42
Uh, the whole notion that it could be switched off.
21:45
I was relieved the fact that it could be switched off 'cause it meant
21:48
you could still smoke the tires.
21:51
I also thought of how sort of pointless it was, and it frightened me that the
21:56
only reason you could switch it off was because they knew that people like us
22:00
liked to burn the tires and they knew that the motoring rider would slate the cars.
22:05
And therefore people wouldn't buy them if they left that off.
22:09
If, if that was how we felt about traction control, where the fuck have we got it?
22:14
Like, fuck it off.
22:15
Well, yeah, but I will say, and and I, I, I, you could, I'm, I'm not saying I
22:19
feel like that about traction control.
22:21
No, no, no, for sure.
22:21
But I drove a piece of freeway just yesterday where as I came onto it, I
22:27
was like, oh, there is an undulation in the middle of this OnRamp because.
22:32
In the Mustang with traction control and terrible tires and a slightly damp road.
22:40
I had a moment where the traction control saved me, and this was, this
22:43
is a long time ago, five years ago.
22:45
I was driving over to Lodi.
22:46
It was whilst I was living here, it wasn't ages and ages ago.
22:48
It was fairly recently.
22:49
You know, the tires that were bald, I've only just come off the car kind of thing.
22:53
Mm-hmm.
22:53
Um, but it was a while ago.
22:55
On the car ball for a really long time, I should say not bald, but just, you
23:00
know, you could see the tread pattern and kind of feel it, but not completely,
23:04
you know, it was like, it was like, and, and it's rear ties and it's a Mustang
23:08
and you expect it to be a bit loose, and I drive slow and all of that, right?
23:11
So, and the ones at the front have got good tread for the aquaplaned, and
23:15
that's the way I, I tend to structure.
23:17
The, uh, rear wheel drive cars that I have, but, uh, well, I
23:21
was going somewhere with that.
23:22
TCS saved you.
23:24
Oh, undulation.
23:26
Yeah, dude, I can, I can ul Well, ululation live rear end the TCS and,
23:31
and the thought was that in a fox Mustang, the previous generation, the
23:35
same car basically, but just with a different body, I would've bloody spun.
23:41
Dude, I mean, when I, we drove, we, we, on my stag dude, when we went to
23:44
the berg gr I left the TCS off on, and when we went out for the first
23:49
lap, and you remember how wet it was, I had Matt in the car and on about
23:53
corner 10 or 12, you know, we threw that first little twisty complex, the
23:58
back step by about 18 inches, two feet.
24:01
And I remember thinking I'm, I was going slow enough that I didn't
24:04
think that was gonna happen.
24:05
And it just sort of stayed out.
24:07
And I remember thinking, don't overcorrect.
24:08
Just don't overcorrect.
24:09
I don't want any snapback shit, don't overcorrect.
24:12
And it came back in and I remember thinking at the time, where were you TCS?
24:15
I think to be fair, TCS was going, saving your ass right there.
24:19
You know, it just eased out of the gas.
24:21
I was ca on the gas.
24:22
But having that safety net is quite nice.
24:24
And on the flip side, the only thing I would say is if you look at bikes.
24:28
Anything that goes off road, if it's gonna be serious off road, you need to be able
24:31
to turn the traction control off anyway.
24:33
And you need to be able to turn the a BS off often if it's gonna be a
24:36
proper dirt bike O off the road.
24:38
So they have to be switchable.
24:39
And if you look at the other end of the scale on the latest Pali
24:42
V four s. Crazy ape shit, track weapon, which you can obviously,
24:48
you know, buy and drive on the road.
24:49
Um, 'cause that's motorbikes, it's got effectively sort of Ducati's answer,
24:54
which I, as I recollect Ferrari's at side slip control sort of thing, where
24:57
you can have the it so that coming onto the gas straight, you can just
25:01
rip the gas and if you get a little bit of slide out, shimmy, it's like,
25:05
yeah, no problem guy, I got you.
25:07
It's just delivering.
25:07
Its 230 horsepower, like band's eye style.
25:11
Anyway, as you get onto your heaven scent Track day at Magie, so you
25:16
can deliver thrills with it as well.
25:18
I accept that that isn't really relevant to cars so much, but I wouldn't be
25:22
surprised if, well, the Ferrari will certainly have, so you see what I mean?
25:25
It is just in bikes, it's so much more accessible cash wise
25:28
for everyone it was ever this.
25:30
But yeah, I mean look, safety AIDS broadly cool nanny state aids broadly
25:34
shit, and they're always gonna overlap.
25:36
And regulation in the EU has certainly pushed us to more one way.
25:40
So, yeah, I'm less and less interested in anything new.
25:43
The only car I can think of in the last five or six years that I've thought I,
25:46
or you know, more than that probably now that I actually, yeah, more than that.
25:49
'cause they're one second generate now.
25:50
But I thought I would genuinely like that.
25:52
It's been, come out, it's pretty cool.
25:53
Was from, of all people Toyota and it's the Yaris GTR, which is the
25:57
little paired down two seat, well, two plus two 'cause like the rear seat.
26:02
So like the roof's been squished down.
26:04
Four wheel drive, rally version of the, of the, of it with like 280 horsepower.
26:09
That the press and I look like the look of and the reviews
26:12
were all five star reviews all.
26:15
That's kind of exciting 'cause it's again, taking the tech and turning
26:18
it into sort of exciting scuba evo from our youth kind of excitement.
26:23
Four wheel drive trickery for you to go faster on B roads in wet whales.
26:27
That appeals to me.
26:28
I like the idea of that.
26:29
Although whales is increasingly becoming a 30 or 20 zone car
26:33
carpet teared across the country.
26:36
So, you know, maybe, maybe not Wales, you still have the M two or is that gone?
26:40
Another curse.
26:41
It's going soon.
26:42
So I've got the the last couple of bits to do it to get done.
26:45
Then I can just get short of it.
26:51
Oh, that's the other thing about this new place.
26:53
It's got a little late, they got gravel bit path down the side of the
26:56
house with a side gate and a garage.
26:58
I mean, at a push.
26:59
I reckon I could get six cars on the drive and one in the garage.
27:03
Your neighbors will love you.
27:04
Well, but the thing is like, it doesn't impinge on them 'cause
27:06
down the side of our house.
27:07
Dude, let's do this.
27:08
Flipping hot hatches.
27:10
Yeah, yeah.
27:10
No, we should.
27:11
I, I did on this pod a what should I buy from 25 years ago, we were talking
27:17
about peak car being 25 years ago.
27:20
There is a market for these hot hatches and.
27:24
I believe that cars and bids and so on, they've done the T. They're
27:29
all excited about the Euro spec, Mercedes and Volkswagens and all that.
27:34
We don't need to do that.
27:36
Go to France, sniff me out a X GTS and.
27:41
4 0 5 MI 16, four by fours.
27:44
Sniff them out for us.
27:46
Fill a shipping crate and I'll sell 'em here.
27:49
Why don't you, because I've time at the moment in terms
27:51
of searching for stuff online.
27:52
Why don't you dig out that spreadsheet we've got, I've got it somewhere.
27:56
Where we scoped out like best cars to buy from eras and stuff.
28:00
And then let's just highlight the sort of stuff we're gonna search for because I can
28:03
just like use it as a sort of spreadsheet.
28:06
If we share it up on the link thing.
28:07
Yeah, we can just use it as like stuff we find and just shove costs in there.
28:11
And I mean, I'm not in any financial position to buy anything at the
28:13
moment, but I mean, I am available as an agent to perform these tasks.
28:17
So if we have the information, then we can take a decision from there, can't we?
28:21
Because I think there's gonna be some stuff that we think
28:23
will be there that won't.
28:24
Uh, and I think it's gonna be idiosyncratic stuff that's
28:27
our best win, if I'm honest.
28:29
You know, again, and also the one where there was a lot of them, so
28:31
like Cleo one seven twos, Cleo one eight twos, those sort of things.
28:36
There was a lot of those things, you know, and they were cracking hot hatches.
28:38
They were always like four and a five star hot hatches.
28:41
And they're small and cute and there's enough of them that
28:44
you can get parts for them.
28:46
Whereas I think finding things like 3 0 9, 2 0 5, 3 0 9 GTIs, they've all gone.
28:50
You are too late for that.
28:51
But, and I think even now you probably find stuff like, you'll still find
28:55
the dogeared 1 8 2 trophies and things like that, but they're all
28:59
still gonna be like 15 grand now.
29:01
Whereas I think the standard one eight twos, or maybe even if you can find one
29:04
a, 1 8, 2 cup, those things you can, and you could always remember, you could
29:07
always do the cup chassis on the standard 180 2 of was like a 1500 quid option.
29:11
So if it was selected, it's selected.
29:13
And that was the big uplift.
29:14
That was why it was the uplift on my one, that trophy I had,
29:17
which was a fucking brilliant car.
29:18
See, I think.
29:20
Here's a, here's a sweet spot.
29:22
There is a flip side to, you know how in Sweden, they don't care whether the muscle
29:27
car's got two doors or four doors, whereas here in America, like a four-door car's
29:31
always a parts car, whereas they just have a completely different attitude at home.
29:37
The difference between a Fiat Strata 1 0 5 TC and one 30 TC is nine and day right.
29:44
It really matters.
29:45
The difference between an XR three I and a. RS Turbo is huge here.
29:52
That difference, there's not the same.
29:56
And what I'm struck by the cars and bids guys, they like the
29:59
Basey ones, a 4 0 5 diesel wagon.
30:03
Nobody's ever seen one of those before.
30:04
That PDI motor never goes wrong, which Americans absolutely love the
30:09
notion of the thing that, you know, that would be, that's interesting.
30:13
Yeah.
30:13
Those kind of cars would be something that Now the challenge, the challenge
30:18
with, with all of the things that I know about, of course, is it all exists
30:21
in this sub five grand marketplace, and I think shipping wise, by the
30:26
time you paid for the flat costs of, you know, the shipping and the
30:31
importation fees and that kind of stuff.
30:33
You need to be looking at 10, 15, 20 grand cars rather than 500.
30:39
I mean, realistically, if you bought a five grand car and shipped it, you're
30:42
gonna need to sell it for 10 to 12.
30:43
But they don't exist over there.
30:45
Yes, yes.
30:46
So I think you could.
30:48
Realistic.
30:49
Yes.
30:49
The only way you can justify that kind of value is if yours is the only one.
30:53
That's why once I saw TVs on cars and bids, I was like, I, it's over now.
30:58
It needs to be something weird.
30:59
Like, you know, per, people have Pergo five oh fives here, so like a 4 0 5
31:05
wagon, you know, something like that.
31:07
Diesel, all of that isn't that.
31:09
There's the European website.
31:12
Of used cars where you can surf like across Europe, Europe wide.
31:16
It's like auto trade for Europe.
31:18
I can't remember the name of the app.
31:19
I'm looking at it on my phone now.
31:22
Auto Scout 24.
31:23
It's like yellow highlighted than, then it says Scout 24, but on.
31:27
So yeah, that's like Europe wide.
31:29
And for an Amer for American market, that's better 'cause
31:32
they're left hand drive cars.
31:33
Well yeah, absolutely.
31:33
How old do they need to be?
31:35
25 years.
31:42
Yeah, because everything's gonna go the way of minis, isn't it?
31:46
You know, the way classic minis are like, you can't fucking look
31:49
at one for less than five grand.
31:50
And you were like, what?
31:51
I remember when those bits of shit were like 500 quid.
31:55
The other thing with 'em is, is they all get gussied up
31:57
in a totally unrealistic way.
31:59
Everyone you look at has got like some G jaw on it that it didn't originally have.
32:05
Don't look like they look like imper.
32:06
This is a pet peeve for mine.
32:15
It is a bit like old Peter Mullin, isn't it?
32:17
Who did the big gatis?
32:18
Like other people had done the Italian cars.
32:20
You're not gonna touch the German factories for their
32:23
own collections of cars.
32:25
But the French stuff, that was an open field and because Reno and per.
32:30
I've sort of been here but haven't been here for ages.
32:34
There's a sort of enough of a thing there.
32:37
Okay, so there's a bunch of clear Williams's.
32:39
I did it by price, height, or low, and they're all in the 25,000 euro
32:43
range, but there's a bunch of them.
32:45
If you could make money knocking out Cle Williams' in the US for, say.
32:50
40 to 50,000.
32:52
Then there's a bunch wicked ship over that feels pretty steep.
32:56
It is a limited addition Uber like hot hatch of the hot hatch.
33:00
Yeah.
33:01
I don't know why.
33:01
I'd have to see what the, what Americans are paying for Delta into grows.
33:05
They're that horse that's already left the building, so to speak.
33:09
Yeah, yeah.
33:10
No, I understand.
33:11
It is funny with those Delta Integral, you know, I don't wanna be funny
33:15
or offend people and there's, you know, I bloody love Lanier and I
33:18
just wanna say that Divvy book, Lanier at the Center is probably the
33:23
single best car book ever produced.
33:26
I, I mean that absolutely.
33:28
Jeffrey Goldberg, the books like $200.
33:31
Spend it.
33:31
If you love car books, do Lio Lancer at the center is, is
33:36
really, I love Lancer, right?
33:38
I mean, skyline or intergra.
33:40
I mean, are you kidding me?
33:42
Pasti or steak dinner like the pasti.
33:44
Nice if you're hungry on the street in the rain, but thanks.
33:48
I'll sit in with a steak dinner and I will have red wine with it.
33:51
Thank you very much.
33:52
You know, that's how I'm, how I feel about skylines.
33:55
I mean, then have the best interior.
33:57
It's maybe a bit of a, you know.
33:58
Toby's pub kind of estate.
34:00
They're so cool.
34:01
Guidelines, they're so fucking cool.
34:03
Which era?
34:03
Which era is yours?
34:05
Then if you have just won the lottery and my son has said to you, I'm probably
34:09
doing an R 34 or something like that, I love the Ken Mary's, but in this
34:14
instant, if it was my money, I think the R 30 fours are so undervalued.
34:20
So undervalued.
34:21
R 30 threes are as well.
34:23
It's always been tough to find a clean one, isn't it?
34:24
But like still, who cares?
34:26
I, I mean, agreed To me, it's like steelworth.
34:30
I want one that has a story and that's been done in a tasteful way.
34:35
If it was wrecked.
34:36
Years ago, and if now it's been rebuilt and inspected and at shows, and you
34:41
know, I can see how the shut lines are.
34:44
I'll take that car over the Oh no stories.
34:47
I, I, yeah.
34:49
No, I know what you mean.
34:49
You get so much more car for your money if you do that.
34:52
Oh, agreed.
34:52
Yeah, I mean it's, it's about picking the right car.
34:55
I'm not saying I want some tasteless, modified thing and
34:58
there's plenty of those out there.
34:59
And then really Japanese doing their own thing, their own way.
35:03
Garum, it was, for me, it was the first sort of time they really
35:06
had sort of proper impact in cars.
35:10
You could argue other cars that one, the bond drove that he couldn't,
35:13
that Sean Connery couldn't, they had to have the roof down 'cause
35:15
his head wouldn't fit in it.
35:16
He was too tall.
35:17
Um, first million dollar Japanese car.
35:20
Yeah.
35:20
Yeah.
35:20
That's a cutest top cut.
35:22
I mean, you know, there's no, you, you rate that, do you?
35:24
Oh, it's pretty.
35:25
I don't know whether it's any good, but it's pretty.
35:27
So this is the Toyota 2000 s or S 2000, or, I mean, it's sort of the
35:32
same name as the Honda, but I can, that was the first million dollar
35:35
Japanese car that, believe it or not.
35:37
Yeah.
35:37
And, and you can see why.
35:38
It's just a, it's a pretty little car, but I wouldn't have one.
35:41
One.
35:41
It's a crown.
35:41
It's a crown in line six with a Yamaha cylinder head on it.
35:46
The wood interior was done by Yamaha as well.
35:49
So what I always say about those whenever I see 'em, is the best bits of
35:53
Yamaha, aren't they not Toyota, I mean.
35:57
Good for Toyota hiring Yamaha, but Oh yeah, for sure.
36:00
And look, you know, people who sneer might sneer a Yamaha.
36:02
Remember Yamaha make pianos and they're some of the most beautiful pianos.
36:05
Oh, sneering at Yamaha for that.
36:06
No, no, you're not.
36:07
I think other, anybody you might be, I'm saying the best bit of Toyota
36:10
is is the Yamaha motorcycle cylinder dad on that Toyota Crown motor.
36:16
It's, it's really, uh, and I guess I've got a soft spot for Yamaha in engines.
36:20
I never buy Yamaha motorcycles, but apart from the Zuma, which is
36:23
slightly accepted, prove the rule.
36:25
But you remember that black Ford mon, you remember it extremely well,
36:28
that we had, this had the Dira Tech V six, that was a Yamaha design motor.
36:33
That V six was a Yamaha design motor and that like had no oil in it.
36:37
We'd still rev to six grand and we put like, you know, six and a half grand.
36:41
We put 6,000 miles on that car B. And, you know, rode it hard at
36:46
160,000 miles and that Yamaha motor was just coming back for more.
36:51
So, well, I have plenty of time for, uh, for Yamaha, of course, the other
36:53
Japanese car from that period, right?
36:55
That I rate more than that.
36:57
Toyota is the Mazda Cosmo.
36:59
Do you know that car?
37:01
Rings a bell.
37:02
Yeah, it's a sort of swoopy science fiction-y shape.
37:05
I know.
37:05
I was gonna say again, with Mazda, I, I've got space for Mazda in my life on
37:09
the basis of their ruthless, pursue all of like two totally different engine tech.
37:14
We're gonna do Kel engine.
37:15
No one else is gonna do it.
37:16
We're gonna do it anyway.
37:17
And then we're gonna deliver you an RX seven.
37:19
Yeah.
37:19
And yeah, so they eat oil.
37:21
Come on.
37:21
Yeah.
37:22
I, I'll take Mazda in a moment.
37:24
I just want to go back to Toyota quickly.
37:25
Mm-hmm.
37:26
I just wanna say, you know, I have slated the 2000 there or whatever,
37:29
that million dollar bond car, but I do wanna say the Toyota seven.
37:35
Sports car that they built, which wasn't really compared
37:38
to for only race domestically.
37:39
That is, that's one of the most beautiful cars ever designed.
37:42
Love that shape, have a little model.
37:44
Oh, well it's just like a wing with a, with a big wing on a sticks behind it.
37:47
Yes.
37:48
The white one.
37:49
Yes.
37:49
Yeah.
37:49
Yeah.
37:50
That's a great car.
37:51
Obviously.
37:52
I've raced that in Grand.
37:53
It's a great guy.
37:54
Yes.
37:54
So, so we're, we're gonna, and, and the ra in Fast and Furious and all that, you
37:59
know, Toyota, that's credit where, uh, where credit is due with, uh, with Toyota.
38:04
And for you and for you.
38:05
Whipper snappers.
38:06
Carlos signs, the father signs rallied with Toyota, didn't he?
38:12
With those?
38:13
Oh yeah.
38:13
Sika GT fours.
38:15
That's the one.
38:15
And, and younguns, you can spot the GT four 'cause it's not
38:19
got, just got the hood scoop.
38:20
It's got the hood scoop with the hole.
38:22
Mm-hmm.
38:23
In the side for the intercooler or, or whatever it was, wasn't it?
38:27
Yeah.
38:27
And the extra exhaust at the back.
38:28
Absolutely.
38:29
Yeah.
38:29
Cracking the GT fours.
38:31
And of course that Sega virtual rally game of course, which was in many an
38:35
arcade, two players sitting side by side.
38:38
One of them was a ska GT four was, was it VV vr?
38:41
Rally v Dreamcast.
38:43
Ever drive a real GT four.
38:45
No, I would've liked to have done, I never drove a real GT four.
38:49
I, I mean, would that one of those, or an intergra?
38:52
I'd probably have the intergra.
38:53
I've had to choose.
38:54
Oh, yeah, me too.
38:55
I didn't last after the time.
38:56
I'm not as, I'm not as excited about those Intergra, I mean, I've already said that,
39:00
but like if I compare how I feel about that versus something like Sierra XR four
39:06
I, or let alone a Sierra Cosworth agreed.
39:10
Mark, thank you for your time.
39:12
Pleasure.
39:13
Thank you.
39:13
Drive through.
39:29
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