Latest / WoT Spoilers / The Seven Striped Lass & Blood in the Air - Towers of Midnight chapters 8 & 9 - EP550

Transcript

The Seven Striped Lass & Blood in the Air - Towers of Midnight chapters 8 & 9 - EP550 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the weedl of time spoilers Bloodcast.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: So we're doing another doubleheader today, shifting from Perrin to Matt.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: And I promised that we would not be complaining last week.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I can't guarantee that I'm going to keep that promise.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: I will probably not complain much about this is these
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: chapters are aggressively Matt. I think Sanderson is doing better
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: in these chapters. It's not perfect, but I do think
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: he's making up a lot. My only problem I have
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: found with this one is it's almost like he's spending
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: this first chapter saying, look, I know Matt. Look, I
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: figured out Matt. Look, I figured out Matt, and like
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: dropping all of these Matt references that Matt personality types
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: to the point where it is a little overdone.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like he recognized how badly he overshot in
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: the last Matt appearance and he's trying to reel it
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: back in. But he's only like sixty percent of the
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: way there. In my opinion, there's still a lot of
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: that weird women are like goats Matt here. It's just fading. Yeah,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: so I won't be complaining as much, but it is
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: still very like this is not the matt that I
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: was hoping to see. But we do get some good
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Golomb stuff, which is fun. I do love a good
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Isidi fighting Golomb situation because it's like the unstoppable force
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: versus a movable object.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Don't know.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is the seven striped Lass, which I mean,
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: gotta be a reference to the Isid Eye in the
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: White Tower, right, like the.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Owner the name of the inn.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but then it's a but it's a reference to
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the owner wants to be an ic at
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: eye may or may not be an agent.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I'm convinced she's a wilder because there's no rats in
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: her in and she really wants to be a nice
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: to die and she calls herself the seventh Stride. Last
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, this is a wilder that figured out
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: her gift. This is my head Cannon. I really like her.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I also noticed that Sanderson was like women can be
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: barkeepers too in this chapter, because both of the bar keeps,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: both of the bar owners that we see in this
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: chapter are both women, just like. I don't know how
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: many there were in all of the books before this,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: but Sanderson's making sure to balance the average out here.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not if not many, not many if any, and
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: are symbol is the dice because it's about like.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Tatala onon is one satala Anon does exist.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: That's true. And aren't like all the women in Ebudar
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: and the innkeepers.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Oh right, that's the thing. Is this the thing in
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: a bar?
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Anyhow so and also you know I would assume the
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: where Aaron and Cottsway are from farmatting.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they run all the businesses period, so right,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: including theans Yeah yeah, oh yeah, mom jeans nance and
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Chad is also pointing out stripes can mean whipped, like
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: being whipped like so many stripes, like giving them stripes.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: But seven feels very eyes to die.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: To me, so mmm mm hmmm, because like if you
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: replaced last with stole, would be the seven stripes stole.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I could see that. That's yeah, someone's getting whipped.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: I would. It would make more sense if she hadn't
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: said that she had never gone to Tarvalan, right if
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: she said If she didn't say that, then it's like,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: well maybe she did go and she did get whipped
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: and kicked out, But she says specifically that she's always
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: wanted to go, so I figure she can't have been
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: kicked out and for.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: Someone who uh, you know. The reason why I'm like, oh,
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: this is probably more likely white Tower related than whipping related,
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: is this person does want to go to the White Tower,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: right like, there is that connection where she owns the bar,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: she named the bar. She wants to go to the
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: White Tower or go It's.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Kind of surprising she hasn't been recruited or interacted with
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: by an iside at this point, either to become a
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: novice or an Eyes and Ears. You think she would
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: have been picked up by them at this point, but
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: for whatever reason.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: And also there in Campbellyn where I said, I are
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: generally viewed favorably, So you can, you know, assume that
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: the name of the end is not a problem.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: You write less dramatic than if she was in tear.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: This would be an incredibly aggressive title.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: Exactly exactly all right, I'll ready said. Matt stood on
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: a worn stool, his arms leaning against a dark wooden
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: bar counter. The air smelled good of ale smoke and
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: of the washcloth that had recently wiped the counter. He
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: liked that there was something calming about a good, rowdy
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: tavern that was also kept clean, well as clean as
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: was reasonable. Anyway, no one liked a tavern that was
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: too clean, that made a place feel new, like a
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: coat that had never been worn, or a pipe that
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: had never been smoked. Matt flipped the folded letter between
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: two fingers of his right hand. That letter, on thick
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: paper was sealed with a glob of blood red wax.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: He had been carrying it only a short time, but
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: it was already a source of as much aggravation to
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: him as any woman. Well maybe not nice to die,
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: but most any other woman that was saying a lot.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: He stopped spinning the letter and taped it on the counter.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: Burn Barren for doing this to him. She held him
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: by an oath, like a fish caught on a hook.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: I think gott gonna stop there. There's a little more
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: Matt going on, but there's nothing there I wanted to
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: talk about that I think it's worth stopping.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is the scene Matt inbar anxious about letter.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: Right. I like the line made a place feel like
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: a new coat that had never been worn, or a
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: pipe that had never been smoked. Because, especially in reference
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: to the show, because I agree that I think some
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: of those costumes seemed a little a little more aging
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: before they were worn on set. They felt a little
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: too much like a pipe that had never been smoked
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: in some situations. As much as I love the costume,
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: I'd like to see the shit beat out of before
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: people put them on.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: This is something I have an issue with with a
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: lot of TV, like way beyond Reel of Time is.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: Ye, and it's not just Wheel of Time, it's it's
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: the air.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: It's like I totally bought the I'm fine with the
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: isaid I have magic. So their clothes are extra clean,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: but the leather needs to look worn right right. The
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: horse equipment needs to look like it's been on the
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: horse more than once, like all of those little tiny
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: bits which the older of TV you look at, the
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: more well aged the stuff. As I mean, look at
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: freaking Lord of the Rings. They were literally sleeping in
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: their costumes for days, to the costume departments angst right
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: like those clothes were worn and now I saw a
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: video briefly online talking about the differences between old Snow
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: White and New snow White, because that New Snow White
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: movie just came out, and it was like specifically comparing
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: like the snow white dresses and just being like, why
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: why is it that the designs are getting simpler and
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: dumber and easier, And it's just it's in every little
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: bit of set, every little bit of set, every bit
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: of folly, every bit of prop. You can just see
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: the closer you get to present day, the less money
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: and the less time and the less wear and the
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: less attention to detail is being applied. And it's yeah,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: as Matt says, it doesn't feel good.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Cost savings and shitification.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, No, you want the bar to
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: feel a little grimy, and it won't be grimy unless
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: you like have the crew set up and smoke indoors
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: in the set for a few days before you start filming.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: Now, an aging clothes is a cost, you know, because
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: you you either have to wear them, which is not
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: what they do, or be go in and paint on
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: the dirt paint, you know, literally beat the shit out
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: of the costumes before you put them on people. And
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: you have to do it in a way that's consistent.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: So when you have you have multiple versions of that costume,
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: and like all that requires a lot of money and
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: effort and care, and it's just easier to be like, well,
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: we like them clean looking, let's skip that.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Or not even that they liked them clean looking, But
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: the audiences won't boycott our product even if it's shitty,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Like people won't care enough to make the ROI worth it,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Like it all comes down to fucking ROI.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: This also the interesting is also I think a good
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: reference to who is that innkeeper? I think it was
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: an informant and his wife was a merchant, and he
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: owned the inn not to make money, but because it.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Was uh, it's intan Chico quillin quillin, Yes, the silver
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: garden of silver breezes.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: Something like that. That's I think this almost feels like
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: a reference to that, because that was the end that
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: was too clean, right, that was no one wanted to
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: actually enjoy it because it was so clean and spotless
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: that everyone felt uncomfortable. And like then I felt that
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: way in people's houses too, where you walk in and
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: you're like, am I allowed to sit on your couch?
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Is that like a thing that you can do because
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: the rest of your house is so clean and spotless.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: I'm afraid that I'm gonna like smudge something or crinkle
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: something that's not supposed to be smudged. Or crinkled, and
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: then you're gonna have to like deal with it in
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: the moment because your house is a museum.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, you know that is a good a
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: good contrast. I like that callback as opposed to this
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: other one. This one is actually comfortably dirty.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: And then mention of the letter with the blood red wax,
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: when we talked about the fact that Varon's using the
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: blood red wax now when she was using I believe
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: yellow wax.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Or yeah, this means that it's one of her only
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: open if I haven't come back because I'm dead, Yeah, letters,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: those letters out going. I hope I see this letter again.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I hope that I get to be the one to
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: take this wax back, but I probably won't. Yeah, And
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: this is the letter that will ultimately reveal that Camelin
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: is going to be attacked from the inside through the
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: way gate.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: And again, this is also back in time for what right,
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: we are significantly earlier in the timeline were before Veins
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: of gold. Alida is still the Amberlin like. There's a
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: couple of hints like that.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: The reunification rumor hits at the end of this section
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: or the end of these chapters. Today Okay, so Alida
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: is not still Homberline. I was actually going to ask
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: you about where we are in the timeline, because you know,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the next time we see Paren, we're jumping way way back, right,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: And so I was really confused about where Matt sits
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: on the continuum from present day back to Paren.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: Okay, so in the next chapter, I guess I did
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: look ahead in so not the next chapter of the
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: chapter after that with a Lane, she gets a missive
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: from Elida's emissaries. So, oh, okay, I was thinking we
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: were so yeah, we're jumping around so much. I really
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: do think we're still fairly early on. I think the
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Matt Paren Elayne timeline is much earlier right now than
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: the rand niinieve land A GWayne timeline because we spent
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: so much time with those characters in the last book. Right,
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: this is this is really he split these characters up
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: and we got all of We got Randon A. GWayne
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: in the last book, and we're getting there was a
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: little Elane in that too, But Elaine, Paren and Matt
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: are catching up in this book.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but the isid I leave to go rejoin the
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Unified Tower at the end of this section with Matt.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: So it's not that far back right.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: So Matt's maybe a little bit more Yeah, Matt's maybe
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: a little morehead.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: It's somewhere in the middle, right, because the reunification happens
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: like two weeks before Veins of Gold, Like those are
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: not the same day at all. Like there's a actually
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: a significant chunk of breathing room between those two events.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: So I can see why Sanderson gave up on trying
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: to keep this perfectly.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Oh and recorrection from chat it's bendar ebb on that
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: that inn is it? Not Tenchiko? Thank you?
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: But I mean, like, think about what Matt has to
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: do before Moraine shows up to the Fields of mary Lore,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: which is like next week for Rand and Agwayne in
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: their timeline, aren't they Like.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how long is that between Veins of Gold and
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: the Fields of mary Law?
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Is that not long? Because he came down in the
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: beginning of this book, and like I said, all right,
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: let's go, you know, but Matt has to meet with
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: a Lane, build.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: The whole prototype processes, the whole.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Prototype process the dragons, build them, train his people on them,
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: go rescue Moraine, and then bring Rain back.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure he leaves the training to Tom Honis.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure he just stays through the prototyping and
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: then hands it off to Tom Honis and the dragonears.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: But yeah, all that has to happen in the timeline
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: before the field's marilre.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's gotta be like three of our week's
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: i e. Two of Rantland weeks, right, twenty days. It
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: can't be that many more, But it can't be that
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: money less, right right right? I mean in the Tower
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: of Genji is like a long weekend. The actual Tower
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: of Genji doesn't take that long.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: That's true. Do they just get way in right and
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: then get way back out? So yeah, exactly, it's just
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: like a single night or two nights.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: They don't have to travel to the tower. That is
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: just an overnight flight. Yeah, I totally see Y Sanderson
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: would have given up, like this is not this is
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: not worth it.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: But but yeah, definitely feels a little out of Matt's timeline,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: especially feels a little out of sync right now with
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: the other two, like he's somewhere in between.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's just straight up desynchronized. Yeah, he's
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: literally just floating around wherever the head cannon needs him
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: And what do you think of that nickname Master Crimson
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: that he picks up.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Well, it goes well with being the leader of the
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Band of the Red Hand and also focusing on a
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: letter with Red Wax, and also being generally in the
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: middle of blood, death and mayhem. It works. I think
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense. It's simple.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: I wish it was just I don't know, I'm not
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: mass I wish he'd said, like, you know, brand Crimson
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: or something like that. The Master Crimson to me is like, oh,
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: is he gonna like be Zoro?
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Like what's that?
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I would have preferred, you know, something like you know,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Frodo Baggins. That would have been fun.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, sure. And then there is this I think
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: you and I disagree on this, but there's this thread
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: that goes through this chapter where he's still he's smiling
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: at girls and then telling himself, Oh, I can't do
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: that anymore. I'm a married girl, I'm a married man.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: I'm just smiling at these girls for Nilisian, for Tom,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: for you know, so and so, right, like I'm not
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: actually looking at them, when it's clearly he's just still
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: looking and smiling at girls.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: I don't disagree with that at all. I don't discut
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: that all. I completely agree.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: I think we disagree on how much we like that.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah. I if the women are like goats
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: chapter hadn't happened, I might have just thought it was
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: a fun, little burst of extra maddiness. But it feels
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: too much like that women are goats thing, and so
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: it just has a bad taste. But it could be cute.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I guess maybe it's kind of weird near the end.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: For me, it's like, Oh, he's having trouble breaking habits, right,
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: he has this habit of smiling and looking at girls,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: and now he's married, he knows he's not supposed to
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: do that, but he still has the bad habit, and
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: so in his head he's saying, Oh, I'm only doing
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: it for my mates. I'm only looking for my mates
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: just to get them girls. And I like that level
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: of doing things without really thinking about it. It's just
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: it's almost I'd rather he was not noticing and thinking, oh,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: I should be noticing them. I wonder why I'm not,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: rather than the other way around, if that makes sense.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a yeah, there's something off about it, and
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: you're right. If it was like that, I would find
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: it much more endearing. If he was like, wow, she
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: has a nice ass, and.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Yet and I hadn't noticed they think about it. She's
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: excliding right next to me at face love, and I
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: hadn't noticed for minutes or you know, like that level
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: of like all I'm doing is thinking about Tuon instead
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: of these other women, and that's really weirding me out
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: because I'm so used to checking out these women, Like
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: there's a way to do that. That would have felt
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: a little more like, oh yeah, he's truly in love
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: with women. The best we get is him being like, well,
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: I'm not really into big, big boobs anymore. I like
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: women with a small chest, and I like women with
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: big you know.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a piece of it with that. He's like, huh,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I'm discovering that I don't like hair on women anymore.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Right, right, literally bald women, a small chest and mean,
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: while every other girl he's been with has been described
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: as long, brown, beautiful hair and big boobs.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's a piece of that, and it is
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: all much more realistic than if he was just suddenly
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: like ice cold towards women and never thought about it.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: A man like that would be really weird, right right,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I don't hate it as much as the women are
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: like goats rantom a.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: Long shot, and for stuff like that, he's always saying
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: it to other people, and that that's where I'm like,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: how much does he believe? And how much is he
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: just spouting off?
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: And there's a certain like charming wingman energy of like, hey,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: tam honis you know how you're always worried you should
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: kiss a girl?
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: There's a certain like fun wingman party boy energy which
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I don't hate to see.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: We get his dilemma about why he's not opening the
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: letter right that if he opens it, he has to
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: do what's inside of it, and he sees that as
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: a huge imposition and he'd rather deal with the devil
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: that he knows, which is he has to stay in
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: Camlin for a while, then deal with the devil he
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: doesn't know, which is open it and have to do
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: some crazy I sid eye task that he doesn't understand.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the pattern is using this hot smart chick playing
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: with the letter and asking him about it to be
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: like will you please open it? Like you can just
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: feel the pattern being like, come on, girl. Just open
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: the letter. Just open it, Just open it. She's trying
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: to make him open it. Pattern's trying to make her
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: open it, like the way that Camelin almost gets saved
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: in this moment, except that she decides to put the
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: letter back down on the bar instead of opening it.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: You know, it's we're so close. It's kind of fun.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: No, And I like her as a character, you know
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: this whole like admiring I Sidy, maybe having some powers
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: of her own, maybe being in an informant for the
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: IID eye right, like we know the paw of them everywhere,
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: and she's made her allegiance pretty wide open. It's hard
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: to believe no one would contact her, especially in Camlin.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's why she doesn't have rats. Maybe that's the
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: like I'll you know, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: You'll have a rat free in and you'll send me
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: the best gossip.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: That would be My assumption is that she's a informant,
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: and then she has, like I said, Ie visit and
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: like cast Wards, he thrats out.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I prefer my head canon, but it does require more
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: of a stretch of the imagination. The is a wilder,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: wilder Yeah, that's a bigger stretch, but I like it
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: better because.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: I feel like as a Wilder, she would have been
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: discovered and they would have talked to her and been like,
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: now we don't take wilders.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Right, And if she's an informant, then they would have
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: recruited her. If she could be recruited. An informer makes
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: the bow sense. An informer with a kick ass anti pest.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: We've definitely is the s plus the explanation. But I'm
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: going to continue to choose to believe that she's just
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: a very clever Wilder. So yeah, he continues to worry
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: about the letter and then leaves the bar to launder
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: through the streets and find a better game of dice.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: There's a good line where she's like, I want you
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: to introduce me to this I said I, and he's like,
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: I'll give you my word, and she's like, can I
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: trust you? He's like, we just had a whole conversation
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: about how if you opened a fucking letter like that
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: was the entire point in previous conversation. Did you not
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: realize that that I'm keeping my word to this woman
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: even though I don't want to, and it's really inconvenient
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: for me.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Again, the pattern is just begging him to break and
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: open the damn letter through any means necessary.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Something else I didn't like is when you look at
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: someone at a bar and he goes, oh, he's got
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: fourteen empty mugs. He must have had fourteen beers. Does
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: no one bust the tables? No, no kitchen has fourteen
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: extra mugs sitting around that they can just lead them
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: sitting on the table. Unwashed mugs get picked up and
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: reused in a given night. What no one leaves fourteen
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: mugs sitting at a table like?
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I got the impression it was like a drinking contest thing.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: So it's just one after the other after the other.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: But even so, a busser would have come by by
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: time we get to the gear about your eighth beard,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: enough time would have passed, just because it takes that
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: long to swallow.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. That does not feel like how restaurants work.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: And this is a nice restaurant too, right, This isn't
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: like the place he goes too later where it's all
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: dirty and shit. This is the clean place.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, they might have fourteen spare glasses, but that's
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: just because sometimes you break a lot in a row
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: and you need to have spares like that's yeah, I agree,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: it's a little lot.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: That to me is an author writing about a bar
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: when he never goes into bars.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: That's proudly about right.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: That's run a little bit of lace, just a.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Little bit, just a little bit, a tiny little bit.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: He's not wearing his hat. He's grown out of beard.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: He's a little scruffy looking. He's trying to hide it.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: You know. It's basically taking off his glasses and pretending he's,
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: you know, not Superman.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Anymore, right, right, exactly.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: He had already died once. He was fairly certain. You've
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: died at least twice, buddy.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: I know, right. And the end he goes to has
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: a great name. Also the dead man's breath, like, I'm sorry,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: but that is a slap in barning. That is gnarly.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: That is a grimy dive bar.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: You know what it's gonna smell like when you walk in?
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Uh huh. Also likes the line where he talks about
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: various bubbles of evil and paving stones attacking people and
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: if you can't trust the rocks under your feet, then
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: what can you trust? Yeah, this is part of why
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I find earthquakes so fascinating because that is one of
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: the most existentially distressing things that can happen, is terra
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: firma is no longer firma. Like one of the scariest,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: most confusing things that human brain can experience is the
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: ground moving.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Well, I think it's also a reference to the guy
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: getting sucked into the ground, remember, and only hats left.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that so that which Matt literally saw. And also
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: like the rocks are the only thing you can trust
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: once all the metal melts at the beginning of the
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: next book.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: That's true. Yeah, earth. Yeah, he leaves his walking stick
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: by the door and that's where it stays for the
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: rest of the chapter. He never picks back up on
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: his way out. I'm not sure what the point of
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: the walking stick. Was, not sure why he had it.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: Not sure. I mean it was may be a weapon.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: He grabs the Ashendari later with the golamb, so maybe
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: like he had him leave it behind so he wouldn't
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: have the stick and the Ashendari. I get the feeling
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: that was a writing thing that he had him with
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: the Ashendari and someone was like, yeah, he can't carry
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: the Ashendari and came on, so he wrote in like,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: oh he left it, he made it a walking stick,
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: and then he left it behind, and then he grabs
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: it at just the right moment when he attacks the golamb.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was also wondering about the walking stick through line.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: I'm like, this serves no purpose whatsoever. Why is this here?
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: No?
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I an artifact of a writing mistake makes a lot
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: of sense.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: An artifact of the oshandari not being something you can
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: carry around all everywhere.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: It's a very distinctive weapon. It is not an incognito weapon.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: So they go into the dead man's breath, which again
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: like the description of a dive bar. To me is
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: like the wooden bar had nails, who heads jutted out
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: a fingernail or so high and jabbed you in the arm. No, police,
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: we'll pound that down, like, no.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: The wood should be so old and dry that it's
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: splintery and stabs him in the elbow. That way more realistic. Right, Yeah,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: this very much is written like a man who's never
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: been in a bar. Yeah, certainly not a dive bar. Yeah,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: he's been to restaurants with bars, but he's never been
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: to a grimy dive bar.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: Right, and he doesn't know what makes a place to
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Grimey in a dive bar, Bill talk about his lace.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Best to have Lopen pulled off his cuffs. Yeah, Lopin
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: is not going to be doing shit.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Oh alright, Lopen, he's probably dying more or less right now. Yeah.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: So he rolls up to a dice game, and again
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: showing that Sanderson is very woke and very progressive, there's
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: a woman dicing, which Matt thinks is unusual.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: And so I couldn't find any evidence for this, but
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: I'm convinced Claire and the guy who's killed Jowdrey Jowdrey
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: were inserts of fans, right, because first of all, Claire
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: is a very common name, and she described his golden hair,
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: and I get the feeling that was an insert. And
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Jowdery is like her husband who got killed in a
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: horrific way. Because Sandersen put in a lot of characters
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: of people who helped him out, but yet my googling
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: gave me nothing. So I am convinced, convinced that these
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: are real people that Sanderson stuck in because this is
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: the only reference to them. One of them dies horribly.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: There's a description of their hair. One of the names
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: is very common American English name, you know, and Jowdery
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: is probably like Jeffrey or something like that just changed, right,
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: And so I'm one hundred percent convinced they're people like
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: beta readers because I know I know from his own
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: word a lot of the one off characters are based
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: on real people who helped him with the production. That
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: was his way of thanking the people who were helping
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: him with these books.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: And is there a comprehensive list somewhere or is.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: It just not that I found? Not that I found,
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: So you know, that's worth looking into. If anyone has
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: that list anywhere, I'd love to see it. I know
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: individuals who are in there and have said, oh, this
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: character is based on me, And I know that he
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: said he's done that, and I just don't have a
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: complete list.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: No, that that feels right.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: And he likes to kill off the people he includes
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: as well.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like it head cannon accepted or heart canon.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know what kind of canon that is, but
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: I'd like it.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: So you've got Claire and Chaser who are playing the
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: card game, and again I don't know about Chaser might
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: be one of the group who knows all three one
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: off characters. They're only in this chapter.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, well Jowdrey isn't even here. He's just a
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: dead corpse in the conversation.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Right right, mentioned in this chapter, right.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: But yeah, the point of that whole thing being that
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Matt gets news that the Golam is back in town,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: which is really important for plot.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: Oh and here's a I did like this. Matt did
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: not smile at girls that way anymore. Besides, she did
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: not respond to any of his smiles anyway. But you're
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: saying like, yeah, obviously you did smile, like proving yourself
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: wrong within your own thought of like, I don't smile
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: like that, and she didn't respond to him anyway.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, well, Chaser is definitively a fan insert.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, so I believe all three of them would be.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: We've got a what fandom article? So yeah, that totally
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: that this group, all of these names in this conversation,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: the three people and the dead guy are all Yeah,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: that totally makes sense.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: The three people, including the dead guy.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I think, Oh, doesn't he sit down at a table
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: with three people? Whatever? It doesn't matter. Yeah, a game
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: being played by three men and a woman oh, okay,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: that's technically four people, not including the dead man.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: We only get Chaser and her name. We don't get
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: the other two names.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Ah. Yes, So the named characters of this scene, all
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: of them, we are assuming based on the fact that
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: one is and the vibes are right, and.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: The fact that I called it without knowing that one is.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Mmmmmmm.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Now that just feels And this is a really important
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: plot turn, right, Bringing the goal on back into the
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: story is important, So it would make sense to throw
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: some people's names in there at this important juncture. And
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: then Matt in response to this information, doesn't really look
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: at the dice as he throws them. So it's the
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: most random it could possibly be, and the dice to
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: do the most random thing possible, which is all three
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: land on their corners right as the dice kick off.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: In his head, it's just this moment of like the
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: tavere and Lever just gets pushed really really hard. Someone
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: bumps it with their elbow.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Right, And you get that with the odds being weird
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: because all the dice land on their corners.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Right, which, like dead is so random. They shouldn't have
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: the correct amount of force to stay on their corner.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: Well, it's an instable local minimum, right, Like you have
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: this minimum where technically a dice can bounce on its corner,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: but any perturbabation, any movement, any change, is going to
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: cause it to seek a different lowest energy state aka
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: flat on the ground. Like it's just and all three
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: of them doing it once. It's possible, but the odds
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: are basically zero, right, But that's matt specialty.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: But especially when you're tossing dice without even looking at them,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: that's not how they're going to land. That's a trick shot.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: You know, you can learn to throw like that, but
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: that's not something that's going to happen randomly unless you're Matt.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: And the pattern is starting to break apart, and shit
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: is getting really intense. So yeah, Matt grabs his money
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: and skidaddle's before he has to answer any more awkward
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: questions about these fan inserts being murdered.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, the only line Claire has is what do
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: you know about jowdery? Claire demanded, she was reaching for
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: her waist. Matt would have bet gold against coppers. She
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: had a knife, there nothing, and he leaves and that's
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: like last week.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Hear, Yeah, yep. So yeah, he scoots out of there
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: looking to pick up Tom.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: Well, and especially because someone's looking at a paper and
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: you know, talking. Yeah, so there's someone who's looking for
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: You know that those images of him that Varren distributed
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: probably aren't the only ones that are being produced. Someone
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: else is looking for him.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because the images exist, they're easy to copy. Now
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: that there's many copies right now, anyone who wants him
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: can use that.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: I also assume Grendal is not trying to chase him down.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: I was gonna ask about the Golam saying, the one
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: who controls me now wants you more than ever. Is
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: that Grandall or is that someone else?
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: So I think it's more. But he remember he said
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: I would give you tools.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Right, which I thought was the dream Spike and Slayer,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: because he says, I'll give you the man with two souls,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: which is empirically not the Golamb.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: Right, right. So I think that Grendall is focused on
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: parn right, That's who she's trying to take down. Yeah,
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: but I think that Morden is able to give orders
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: to the Golam because I think it was Samuel's right.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: But once Samuel disappeared slash died. I think it reverted
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: to Morden's.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So why is Mordon turning up the heat on
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: finding Matt because the golamb says, your desirability as a
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: target has gone up. Why is Morden doing that?
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Because he can't kill Rand because he's linked to him.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Ever since he's realized the crossing the streams has created
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: a link between him and Rand. Remember he says to
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: samrog Or, he says, like, I didn't I told you
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: not to hurt him, and he like flexes his hand
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: because his hand's all fucked up. So at some point
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: before then he realizes the connection between them, and if
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: Rand is killed, he will be killed as well.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: So he's cranking up the heat on the other two
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: boys in the effort to try to do the cut
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: one leg of the tripod exactly a fall down.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: There, exactly right. He's been concentrating on taking out Rand
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: this whole time, and now he's like, fuck, I can't
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: do that. Let me go ahead and concentrate on the
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: other two.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Right, which also in fairness, as you approach the final battle,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: the guy gathering the army and the guy who is
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: many many generals compiled into one are both big military
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: assets that would be worth taking out.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Right right now, and Parents gathering all the assets of
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: that whole section of rand land. Right And but in
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: a lot of ways, Matt is creating the technological basis
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: for the army that's going to make it a more advanced,
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: more modern army against.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Can I make a force equalizer against Magic?
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: Right? No, I would have loved I do think the
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: one thing that you could have done is it increased
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: the speed at which Matt and Paren brought their relative
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: forces and technology back to Rand, and have Rand sort
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: of unify them and have like Matt's cannons and maybe
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: even guns be given to all of Like the white
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: Cloaks might be more active force if you give them guns.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Can you imagine like giving your cop guns right now?
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, but the white cloaks are a cavlory force
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: and you need horses to move cannons. Like it totally
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: makes sense.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: Right, So I would have liked to see more of
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: that cross pollination between like the forces that Parent and
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: Matt brought together, and like Matt being like, oh man,
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: I've got these cool technologies. I just don't have the people.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: And Parent being like I brought Malden and Geladn and
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: the two rivers and all of these people that are
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: just going to come streaming out of gateways for hours
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: and hours and hours and hours and hours.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would have been great, But alas we will
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: be back with Matt. He thinks about as he's headed
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: towards picking up Tom, he thinks about how his letter
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: to Elaine hasn't gotten through yet, And at the end
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: of these two chapters he talks about how he's going
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: to have to send a stronger, more colorful, ridiculous to
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: get her attention because we know that Nori has just
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: shuffled his email office spam right, because he's just another
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: mercenary Captain any Lane has not had the chance to
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: see his letter, much less rejected.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Oh something else. By the goal, it seemed impossible it
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: could have gotten here this quickly. What do you think
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: about that wait points.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: I think they just doesn't have to eat or rest.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: It can just run all night. I don't think it
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: operates accord to normal human speeds. Plus it could have
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: like grabbed a horse or a ride on a cart.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Like I just think that Matt underestmeates how fast it
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: can move in the more traditional sense. I don't think
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: it has magic.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: Magic. I don't think it has magic, but I think
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: according with the new orders, it was also relocated and
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: he can't go through Well it can go through gateways, No.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: It can't. It's dark, it's shadows spawn. Just can't go
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: through gateways.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: How did they kill it again? Oh?
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough, I can't go through gateway all right,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: all right, okay, gateway forward, that would work, That would definitely.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: This is the only shadow spawn they can go through
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: gateways as far as we know.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Why does it get an exception.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: Because otherwise it would be too easy to kill or
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: he didn't think of it when he was doing the
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, like that is I think one of the
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: many ways to kill a golam. You know, always always
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: look at the article fifty ways to kill a Golm.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: Always a fun one. But yeah, no, it seems like
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: as shadow spawn. My guess is it's not strictly shadow spawn.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: That it is made in a way that the Green
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Men were made. It's an artificial construct.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, not inherently evil, more like made of magic.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and then a lot of ways, like the
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: Golm is a vampire. Right, the Golam drinks blood, survives
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: and is sort of something other than shadow spawn. I
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: don't know. I'm not sure they seem to be. And
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: also they have a very unique relationship with side and insidear.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking about how it interacts with the
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: medallion and how that's the only thing that can hurt it,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: and the medallion is so unique in its ability to
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: just absorb and ignore magic that somehow there's something going
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: on there with their essence of being. And also it's
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: not made of normal flesh. Right, it looks like flesh,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: but it does not interact like flesh.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: So, you know, my best guess is some somehow gateways
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: are an effect of the one power. Right, it's not
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: once in the same way that throwing something, you're imparting
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: magic momentum onto it. But once it has the moment,
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: the mass has the momentum, it can hit you. Right. Gateways, Yes,
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: it's a magic gateway, but once the hole is open,
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: you're just stepping from normal air to normal air. Why
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: does that kill traulics and fades and everything else. I
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: don't know.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's because their souls are twisted and you have
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: to have like an intact soul in order to like
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: transpose yourself across space. Otherwise it's just there's a snag somehow,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: And maybe the goal is so artificial it doesn't even
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: have a soul exactly, yeah, exactly, it's a construct. Like
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: you said, I mean not that Someshta didn't have a soul,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: because obviously Semesha was a very good tree boy. But
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know. This some metaphysics here that I think
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: maybe even the great world building Sanderson didn't fully think
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: out for us.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: Because I do kind of believe that the Gateway should
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: kill a Golam as shadow spawn.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just very I would like to hear a
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: scenario in which a Golamb is not shadow spawn? Is there?
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: What about its creation makes it distinct? Because I could
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: believe that there's some other reason for having made Golam
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: that was not inherently evil, the way that like trollocks
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: are evil, right, the entire inspiration behind them is to
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: be evil. Is there a Golam that wasn't?
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: But Agenor made the Golam right, just like he made
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: all the shadow spawn, you know. My only assumption is
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: that he based them much more on the O gear
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: than on than the soul twisting.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: But like, O, gear have souls, right, they're aliens, But
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: like so I guess, yeah, the question just did the
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: nim have souls as constraints?
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: So okay, here's the thought that maybe he used the
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: True Power in creating all the other shadow spawn, but
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: because he had a template, he was able to use
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: the One Power to create the Golams. The onngreole that
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: cancel the One Power are created with the One Power.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, okay, and.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: The Golam is essentially one of those constructs brought to life.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: And so maybe he's like, oh, if I bring in this,
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: you know, I see these onngre all that can cancel
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: out the One Power. If I use that weave plus
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: the creation of the the Semeshta and bring those together,
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: and instead of giving it a soul, I use it
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: doesn't have a soul. It just uses the blood aka
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: the souls of of its victims. Maybe that's a way
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: to create something that's like not shadow spawn, but just
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: a really crappy version of a Semeshta.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: But we know that they only ever made six because
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: they were too dangerous. It's definitely not tech that was
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: widely adopted, so yeah, sure, why not.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: Whereas all the other shadow spawns seem to be shall
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: we call them monster generators, right, they seem to be
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: able to just kind of pump them out based you know, oh,
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: are they breeding technically, but like they're coming from somewhere.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Right, Whereas the golamb were definitely like constructed in a
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: lab individually. Each one was prototype put together on a stand.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, where it feels like all the other shadow spawd
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: can breed.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're self replicating, they're animals.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, whereas the Golms are definitely not. So you know,
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: to me, I think it makes sense to say the
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: Golms are something else. There's something else that Agnor created
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: And yeah they're in the Shadow spawn because they're controlled
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: by the Shadow and they're evil, but they don't qualify
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: as the spawn of the Shadow who have the corrupted
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: souls mixed together.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: That makes sense because every other shadow spond has you know,
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: a heart and a brain and other organs that can
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: be damaged and destroyed, whereas the Golam is just pure
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: something all the way through. Yeah, it's much more like
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: technology than like an animal. Fascinating.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: So as Matt's sitting there playing heard about the goal
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: on He's basically planning, how am I going to kill this? Right,
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: it's time to stop and face the goal omb.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like listing all the people that have died
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: and kind of psyching himself up, being like, I'm going
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: to kill you. I'm going to deal with you. I
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Am not going to keep running for you. And then
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: he doubles down on that later when he has more
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: dead people to be sad about. But like, this is
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: the beginning of him starting to turn around and be
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: ready to fight.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: And really he encounters it in the next chapter, there's
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: a fight, but the time after that he kills it.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this upcoming time, he doesn't ask for it when
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: he kills it. That was a fight he specifically went
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: out looking for. It's I love the cat and mouse
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: of him taking the golum down. I actually really like that,
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: even though it's so Sanderson, but I'm here for it.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: And unlike with Slayer where it's just teased over and
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: over and over again, it's like, once he sets out
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: to kill it, he kills it.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Matt does not fuck around. Once he puts his
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: mind to killing someone, that someone is dead.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: HM. It's funny because I always the description of parent
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: is almost the what Matt's like, right, someone he ponders
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: everything and is very careful before he does things. In
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: a lot of ways. Yeah, he gambles in the moment
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: when he needs to because he understands odds, but only
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: because he's thought about every single scenario. Like then, oder
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: times we've seen Matt stay up at night planning out
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: every single scenario in his head over and over and
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: over again before the battle, Like he does that mmmmm,
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: whereas Parent doesn't really plan anything. He responds very instinctively
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: to things.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: But he thinks about everything. He says yes, sor really,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: whereas Matt just spouts off whatever is top of mind. Yeah,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: there's different kinds of impulsiveness.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: There's always ends near city gates, not the nicest ones,
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: but always the most profitable ones. I feel the same
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: way about airports, right, It was always hotels hotels around airports. Yeah.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now they're no good, but they're close and they're cheap, and.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: In a lot of ways, airports are the modern city gate. Right,
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: that's the you have inspections, you stand in line, you
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: have guards like that is you know, we don't have borders,
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: but we certainly have high high security at our gates
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: aka which you fly into a gate, right.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Like, Yeah, there's just no equivalent at the road. There's
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: no like equivalent structure at the road, equivalency like between
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: like at cities. Obviously between nations there are, but like
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: at a city, you don't get stopped at the city gate.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: But I like the idea that, like mont planes are
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: are modern. That's how we get our cities is people
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: coming from Now cars are obviously a big open way,
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: but in some ways you can't really fly into this
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: country without going through an airport.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a difference between a country and a city.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Our country is a continent wide. At a city is
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: you know, especially in this world, only a few square
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: miles in our world they can be many more square miles,
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: but in a fantasy world they're going to be like
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: ten square miles or whatever.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: You also have more city states, right, you have these
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: places that yes, it's a part of a country, but
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: in and of itself it kind of exists as as
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: a state.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but we don't have wald cities anymore. And that's
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: when a gate really is a thing. That's an option.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: But once you get airpower, Walled cities don't really make
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: sense anymore, and then you're back to airports are now
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: the gate.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: So he goes to hang out with Tom, and he
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: goes to the two Apples, which is one red and
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: one eating down to the core which is red and
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: light the end orn colors.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: It's cute. There's a lot of good bar iconography going
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: on in this chapter. And of course Tom is going
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: to a patriotic inn.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: Of course we get a reference like Matt had seen
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: tons of people play and Tom was better than on
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: any of them. Right, this court barred who came to
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: the two rivers who, Like in the beginning, you're like, oh,
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: he's just a gleaming like any other and it's like no, no, no,
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: he's special. His performances are way better than average, always
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: have been.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like this this is actually like I don't know
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: David Bowie, right, This is not just another musicians, not
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: a David Bowie cover band exactly, this is actual David Bowie.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: So he's playing a sad song. You know who's Tom
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: sorrowing for?
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: I mean Moraine, either that or Owen, but I think
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Moraine because he doesn't know if he'll ever see her again.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: He knows he's gonna try, but he doesn't know if
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: he's going to succeed.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: So the only other person was like, maybe it's a
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: Dana Vienna reference. Oh yeah, But like, as he's moving
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: on to go rescue this new girl, he's leaving behind
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: the one he mourned for all this time, but right.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: The one that could have been the one snuffed out
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: too soon. Yeah, he was definitely he loved her as
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: an apprentice and as a woman, so he could definitely
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: be mourning for like I could have had an apprentice,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: But Moraine is more top of mind that. The next
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: thing he says, can we go to the tower? Can
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: we go to the tower? Can we go to the tower?
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Are we going to the tower yet?
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: So yes, Moraine is my conclusion as well. There's a
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: bunch of people here because Camlin's you know, you're not
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: under the control of the dragon or the sean Chan
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: technically rumber Lane pulled down the dragon banners and then
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: she wrote right, so she's they're independent in that way,
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: so which is why she's got a lot of people
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: flocking there and the food isn't going bad because she
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: is on dragon side. Dragon does support her. His influence
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: is keeping the food from going too bad.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as fast as fast. They have some funny physical
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: comedy where Matt tries to collect his money so they
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: can go soon, and Tom throws a knife at him
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: and then goes oop, sorry, I didn't see it was you,
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: and then Mac goes you, you may damage my coat,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: and Tom's like, you're really continuing with this, You're not
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: a noble bullshit?
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: Right now only nobles complain about their coats.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: The stitching is gonna show what farmer cares if the
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: stitching is gonna show.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: I'm no noble. You married one that literally makes you
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: a noble. You're a prince of the Ravens. Too bad,
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: And he even thinks at one point like, well, I
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: guess there's no avoiding nobles for me. I married a noble.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: I won't admit it out loud.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah a head. Just because he's asked to deal with
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: them doesn't mean he is one.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so yeah. They walk back to the camp
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: talking about all the things go Lom and a Ginji related.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: And they don't bring their horses into the city because
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: horses are meat.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Horses are expensive and edible.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: It's like you don't bring your car to the bad
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: part of the neighborhood. You take the bus, because if
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: you know you have to leave it unlocked there, it's
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: probably gonna be broken into.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you leave it locked.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: I love Portland, but the property crime on cars is
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: pretty bad.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: You didn't need that catalytic converter.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: For that unbroken side window.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Why would you need an unbroken side window.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: I've learned don't leave change in your passenger seat or
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: anywhere exposed, because that's an instant broken window. That sucks. Otherwise,
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: I love Portland, but for a while the property crime
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: was really bad.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: I like how Matt can remember Camelin over all of
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: well not all of his memories, but over many of
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: his memories. He's like looking at Camlin and be like, oh, yeah,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: I assaulted it that one time, and I tried to
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: attack it that other time. And man, that's a tough
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: city to bust into. Like I just I like the
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: seeming together of all his memories, but also just the
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: fact that Camlin's been around for a really long time.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: It has seen some shit.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: They get confirmation of where the Tower of Gunjai is,
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: so a lot of conversation about Tower of Gunjai and
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: how we're gonna go do it a little bit of that,
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: like can you believe we left here and I'll go
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: hunting after those girls in tan Chico and everything that's
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: happened since then, uh huh uh huh.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: And then and then the varn part where Tom's like,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I don't trust Varon, there's something off about her, and
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Matt says, I'm a pretty good judge of character, and
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: I like Arn. I think she's all right.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: She's not a dark friend in disguise or anything.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: Okay, Matt, Well, the funny thing is that Matt's right,
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: she is a good one. That's funny to me about
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: it is that Tom knows she's a dark friend, you know,
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: he's intuiting it. And then Matt knows that she's actually
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: a double agent working for our guys, really under it all. Like,
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: I just and obviously she's done bad things, like in
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: the course of her career doing that, But I just
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: love how they both are picking up on different pieces
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: of her subterfuge. Yes, they're both good at reading her,
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: they just come away with different impressions.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: Yes something is off, and yes she is a good person.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, both things are true.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: Actually, both things are true.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure that Tom is picking up on the many,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: many murders and war crimes that she has done over
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: the past seventy years, whereas Matt's picking up on her
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: like end goal ironic given that he has one of
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: her end goal letters in his hand and refuses to
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: open it.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: Right, just do it. There's a reference to the thugs
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: who jumped him. Those were definitely dark friends, right, even
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: though again he's like, oh, thugs just just on as
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: good pickpockets. Like all the times in Camelin, all the
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: times he was in chat chased by dark friends. Every
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: time he's like, oh, they're after my purse. It's always
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: dark friends, Matt, It's always dark friends.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: I figure the reason that it is easy to brush
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: off as a regular robbery is because they were very
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: low level dark friends who had absolutely no chance and
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: were more or less self into sheeting like, yeah, man,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: we can get him, Like you are the lowest level
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: thug in your entire city, Mafia. You're not taking this
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: guy down. He's not even going to realize you're bad guys,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Like that's how incompetent you are. But yeah, I cannot
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: believe he's ever been attacked by our regular, honest to
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: god criminal. No, they're always dark friends.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: And then he gets worried that as he gets back
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: to the camp that the three I sid I have
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: come back.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming that's because while they were in the city
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: they got wind of the fact that the tower has reunified,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: because that's the next thing they come up to him
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: and say is we've heard the tower has been reunified,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: so we got to bounce. So I'm assuming that's why
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: they came back early from their excursion one hundred percent.
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: And those three, I said, I are Teslin, Joline and Editsina.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the red, the green and the shrinking yellow.
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: I think yes, Ediscene is yellow.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: See Matt's upset that they're back in camp, but fortunately
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: they'll be gone as of like tomorrow morning, basically, so.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: And of course he has horses for them. He goes
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: to that whole thing where he's like, horses are too expensive,
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: and then when he's ready get rid of them, here
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: are your horses.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: I recounted. Uh huh hmmmmm, sure sure.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: And I like this so I want to read this
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: paragraph about memories because he says more and more, he
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: had simply accepted those memories as his own. He had
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: not asked for them, no matter what those bloody foxes claimed,
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: but he had paid for them with the scar on
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: his neck. They had been useful on one more than
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: one occasion, and the idea that they're just part of
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: him in a way that he doesn't have to think about, right.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: I always thought that was a really good contrast to Rand,
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: who has these memories in his head but also has
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: a personality to go along with them, and like how
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: much that is? Oh, the personality is the insanity. The
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: memories are real, but this personality that comes along with them, well,
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: Matt doesn't have that, and he's not insane.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: Right. If Matt had generals screaming at him what to
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: do in the moment, he would probably be having a
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: harder time too.
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: Write, right. Instead, he just accepts them as his memories,
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: his experiences, and he gets to live and act as
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: though he went through those events and learned from them.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Rand could have been doing that this whole time, understanding
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: that the voice and the memories are separate. That could
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: have been a thing he didn't obviously, but he could
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: have in theory, because yeah, he never talks about having
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: memories that are insane or distorted. He has traumatizing memories,
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: or he has memories of, you know, like Iliana's being
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: dead and all that, but he also has memories of
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: like climbing plum trees and growing up here and there
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: and meeting Forsaken before they were forsaken, like they're normal
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: memories in the sense you know.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: Well, he does say most of them are battle memories
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: at various times.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: No, Matt's memories are battle memories because the Finn picked
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: them up. But like Rand's memories from loose there and
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: are not distorted by insanity. They're just the memories of
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: a man who lived right right right.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: He lived that life. Yeah, he remembers that life, like.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Some of it's traumatizing, but none of it's like warped
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: like you know Peta in the Hunger Games. Or he
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: gets his memories all like messed up on purpose. Like
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: we never get an impression that the memories are distorted
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: with Rand. It's just the voice that comes with them
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: memories that makes Rand think it's all bad.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: And this is different than flicker flicker flicker, where he
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: lived those lives, but he never took away any skills, right,
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: It's not like he got to actually absorb. He kind
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: of has memories from those, and the memories fade. It's
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: similar with going through the rings with the novices.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, with the apprentices for the wise apprentices. Yes, yeah,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: you take away emotional growth, but you don't actually.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: Have like skill right for living all those lives. Yeah.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: So Matt gets to his tent and just before he
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: can go inside and get attacked by the golom, Tesla
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: shows up and gives us a slight stay of execution.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: And a real sort of reversal of typical isidie behavior,
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: which is she thanks him legitimately from the bottom of
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: her heart for all the help that he's provided, which
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: is just like rare. That's one of the reasons to
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: we like Teslin.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Because she has growth. She has growth, she has growth.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: She goes from men are useless, this one in particular. Two,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: I owe you a favor, and you can come to
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: the White Tower itself and color if you have to.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Like that is so much growth from any eyes to
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: die much less a red who really didn't have much
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: to do with the plot other than interact with Matt.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: We like her because she's so unique, and also because yeah,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Matt getting appreciated for his work and getting the thanks
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: and actually accepting the thanks, as it doesn't happen that often.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: Nope. And then then he enters the tent and smells blood,
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: which leads us right into the next chapter, blood in
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: the air.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Not even an eye blink of distance between those two
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: things happening.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: And here we have the snake in the wheel as
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: our chapter icon for plot. Matt ducked immediately. That instinct
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: saved his life. As something swung through the air above
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: his head. Matt rolled to the side, his hand hitting
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: something wet as it touched the floor. Murder, hellowed murder
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: in the cab, bloody.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Murder, he screams, bloody murder.
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: Something moved toward him. The tent was completely black, but
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: he could not hear it. Matt stumbled, but luck was
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: with him again. As something swished near him. Matt hit
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: the ground rolled, flinging his hand to the side he
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: had left there. He came up beside his sleeping pallet,
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: his hand grasping at the long wooden half there. He
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: threw himself backwards to his feet, hauling the ashen dary
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: up then spun and slashed, not of the form moving
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: through the tent toward him, but at the wall. The
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: fabric cut easily, and Matt leaped out, clutching his long
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: bladed spear in one hand. With his other hand, he
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: reached for the leather strap at his neck, his fingernails
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: ripping at his skin. In his haste, he pulled the
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: foxhead medallion off and turned in the brush outside the tent.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: A weak light came from the nearby lantern on a
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: post at an intersection of a camp pathways by it,
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: Matt made out the figure sliding out of the rip
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: in the tent, a figure to see the goalm looked
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: like a man, slender with sandy hair and unremarkable features.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: The only thing distinct about the thing was the scar.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: On his cheek, a present from Matt.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: And that was when it accidentally fell out of his
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: shirt and burned him right. That's when he discovered what
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: the medallion could do.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that wasn't even a deliberate scar. That scar
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: is the result of him learning that it can be
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: used as a weapon. But he hasn't. I think he
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: hits it somewhere else in that fight, and then he
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: hits it in this fight, but the chek scar isn't
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: is the accident?
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: Is the accident? Yeah, you hear it sizzling a couple
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: of times, but like this one, I can imagine like
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: it fell out and landed on the cheek and they
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: both were both just like what and then and like
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: the goal like probably didn't like remember the first time
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: touching a stove. He was probably not expecting the pain
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: or the fire at.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: All, right, And he like throws Matt off of him
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: like ow yeah, and then yeah, he treats the thing
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: like it can hurt him, which is a completely unique
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: experience for the goal. The golamb has no preservation threat
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: assessment routines, Like he's had to figure that all out
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: in direct reaction to that.
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: Moment ties the Ashendari to the half of the blade
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: so it can the blade becomes a weapon. I don't
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: think the blade itself actually like gets any of the properties.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: It's not like the blade suddenly will touch him.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: It's just it just holds the object. Yeah, yeah, the medallion,
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. If he hits it would be really cool
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: if it activated the whole blade. But no, he literally
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: just has to smack the medallion onto the goal.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: Would that not be badass? If he discovered like a
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: slot in the base that he could put the medallion
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: into that then activated the whole Ashendari into a powerproof weapon.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: That would be so op.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: The gold talks. You should be proud, it whispered. The
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: one who now controls me wants you more than anyone else.
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: I have to ignore all others until I've tasted your blood.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: We talked about that, thinking it's probably a shanele right
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: more it in.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it is a little bit of a contradiction though,
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: because it does say I'm not supposed to kill anyone
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: else until I've killed you, and then later it says
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: I'm going to kill a bunch of other people in
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: order to get to you. So I'm like, oh, which
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: is it? But it's not a nice to die. It's
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: allowed to lie, and it's killed.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: A bunch of people for food purposes, so it's not
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: like it's ignoring everybody else. It's still killing people to eat, right.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: I like that Matt has practiced with putting the medallion
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: onto the Ashendar. I appreciate that little bit of like, no,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: he's actually like in front of the TV just practiced this,
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: not over and over again kind of thing. But he's
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: still stupid enough to attack because that's who he is
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: as a person.
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: And then he's like, why did you kill Thailand? You
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: could have left her alone, And I like his response.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: A bird must fly, a man must breathe, I must.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Kill wind blows, rainfalls.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: Golm kills. But it does give you a very guilt
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: free like this thing needs to die, right, that's it.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: You're never going to negotiate with it. There is. It
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: doesn't want anything other than to kill.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: It's a force of nature. It's not yeah, it's a machine.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: It's a force of nature. It is not a negotiable person.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: It looks like a person, it is not a person.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: You don't have to feel person feelings about killing it.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: And I've been told to kill them all. The man
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: with the mustache that's Tom, the aged one who interfered
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: last time, Nol, and the little dark skinned woman who
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: holds your affection, Tuon. And later he's like, how does
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: it know about Tuon? And I was curious if you
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: had any.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: Theories dark friendery?
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: Could it be Varren? It's not me? When I'm being like, oh,
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: it's Varren, it's not Vern. It's not Vern could have been, it's.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: Not, It's probably not.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: Can you go back to that section and be like, yeah,
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: so even though we know it was dry, I'm just
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: gonna pretend. Let's pretend like we don't know that and
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: then talk about this as though Varren was the one.
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: We're just gonna pretend that we don't remember that, okay,
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: and then this next section we're gonna talk like Varren
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: is the one who did it. She hasn't betrayed the
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: dark side yet, right, So we always have this debate
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: how much before Varren is able to betray her oaths,
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: how much dark Frienderie, how much information does she pass
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: on about Matt?
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Where are we at with respect to her death? Because
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: her original opening to Matt, because in the letter to Matt,
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: she says I had hoped to return in a few
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: days and relieve you of it. And we are more
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: than a few days into the waiting period at this point,
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: which means she's dead already.
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: Right, And we're gonna get rumors, like you said at
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: the end of this about the tower being right, like,
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: we already got those, so like, so we know she's dead,
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: So we know she's dead.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: She absolutely could have passed that information on at some
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: point just to stay in good standing, because I mean,
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: she is the shan Chan Empress. I don't really see why.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: And I said I would want to protect that woman
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: from the Kalam, right, huh? I mean, because yeah, like
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: what we don't. Varren is the best positioned dark friend
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: to have passed that information along efficiently. But I hate
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: to think of Varon betraying one of our heroes as girlfriends.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: But she is the head of the shan Chin Empire,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: so I don't really care that much.
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: And like what other dark friends has he interacted with
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: with Tuon right, like he was kind of there. They
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: were on their own, traveling avoiding everybody. As far as
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: I know, they're no dark friends, you know, unless unless
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: this is trying to set up you know, van In
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: type situation, because that is a bit later where that
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: you think Vannon could be a dark friend.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: But Oliver isn't mentioned, and Varren, as far as we know,
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: has no reason to know about Oliver, and also might
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: be inclined to refrain from mentioning the child's name given
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: that there's other good targets to offer up. So that
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: h I'd never really thought about it. I was just like, yeah,
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: dark friends, no things. But Varren does make a lot
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: of sense. But does Varren actually see too On? She
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: does because she comes to the camp. Hmm, so she
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: would have she would have seen and heard about Tuon
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: because isaid eye stuff, because Varren knows hmm. Wow, Varren
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: gave information and it went through very few hands before
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: it was passed down to the Golum.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: Makes sense what I think, that's what I think.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, Tom's right that there's something wrong about that woman.
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like we do just
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: get that reference to Varin as well. So so Matt's
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: being attacked. I love how Teslin is effective against the Golam.
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: She grabs the knife, not the Golam's hand. She pulls
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: bat out of the way, not trying to push the
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: Golam away. And remember this is all back to when
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: she threw pooh at Matt.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: I mean Atalie's and van Den are the ones who
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: figured that out. Tesla never threw poop at him. Oh,
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: different expedition.
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: I could have sworn though that she was one of
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: the I said, I who was fucking with him at
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: some point.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: No, she respects him too much because of saving her
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: from the shan Chan thing.
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: Oh, you're right, that wasn't her. But I thought those moments.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: I do believe she has observed the phenomenon directly. I
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: don't think she did it, but I do think. No,
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: it was Jolene that was doing it and Tesla and
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: yelled at her about it. Right, But Jolene is doing it,
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: so Teslain knows it works.
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's I guess. That's what I was trying to say,
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: is there's those moments where like the iceid Eye were
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: fucking with his power and like messing with it, and
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: that very much helps her at this point because she knows,
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: oh this same rules as the medallion.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Right, and like Matt yells that to her in the moment,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: you know, Weaves won't touch it because obviously, But yeah,
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: she's already thinking, let me grab furniture out of the
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: tent and just keep hitting the go along with chairs
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: and stuff. That'll keep it away from Matt. Yeah. I
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: you love to see power being used effectively. And yeah,
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Matt thinks I would have been fine if you just
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: put me in the air to keep me safe. That
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: would have been okay. But we know that that's not
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: how the rules of channeling work. And he even thinks
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: Well, and he even thinks that he's like, I've never
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: seen anyone lift anyone up more than a foot or so,
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: like I'm not never going to be high enough. I
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: think these two red arms are two more fan inserts.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: No they're not. They've they've been around since Jordan books. Yeah,
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: they've they've been around. This was one of the ones
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: that kind of hurt me because I'm like, they've never
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: really been front and center, but they've been around since
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: like early days of the formation of the band, and
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: they just get taken down like NPC red Shirts who
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: have never been on page before. It's so brutal.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: We look them up. I did not do that ahead
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: of time.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: It says here. Both men who had survived the time
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: of Oh, like they know they know what they're facing
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: because they saw Nlysian die and they still like try
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: to It tears my heart out, so siaed like Matt
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: tells them, like you know, no, don't. It's just such
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: a slow mow like reliving of what happened with with Nalician.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, they know all about the goal from
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: Winter's Height, Winter's Heart and everything like that. I mean,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: they're just, you know, they're Red Arms, right, They're these
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: existing guys who have been around in a bunch of
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: these scenes, not doing anything specific to them, but they've
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: been in a lot of these scenes.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: They're like the faces of the Red Arms. We have
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: to get new faces for the Red Arms now, but
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: before we can mourn them too much, Matt remembers that
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: there is a literal child who might have been hurt
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: and goes dashing back into the tent desperately looking for
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: where did all that blood come from? Is it olver?
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: And it's not over? But he still has to find
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Lopen and two of his other Red Arms, and everything's
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: bloody and it's it's all very sad and upsetting.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: Riddlem and will Reeve, Are those also old school Red Arms?
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: No they are not. So maybe those are the fan
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: inserts that your spidy sensors are pointing to in the thing.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: I was like, I knew there were I felt like
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: there were two of them.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: And will Reeve, I don't know that that. I don't know.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Those feel like very I could.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: Believe that looking them up now.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: Every time that a random character dies. I'm just going
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: to assume it's one of the fan inserts, like literally
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: every single one. If I've never seen you before and
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: I'll never see you again, presumably you helped Sanderson write
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: the books.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: Congratulations, Welling, nothing popping up like it did with Chase.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: So that's of all these characters, Chase is the only
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: one that I've been able to see a note on
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: that actually confirms he was a fan insert.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: I want to believe.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: It's just what It's hard to see names that are
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: so modern and not go. Yeah, those are probably or
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: modern with a little bit of a twist to.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: Them, especially when they did not have to be named
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: in order to be bodies right right, Like he could
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: have just been two red arms. We didn't have to
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: have names. Why are their names so? Yeah, Matt thinks
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: sad thoughts about Lopin. Lopin had only just started to
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: get over Nalsian's death. He's the reason that Matt was
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: able to get out of at Budar. Like, he's been
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: an important support character that Matt has mostly complained about,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: and now he feels bad because you know, now he's dead.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he shouldn't have complained about him because he died
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: for you. You know, it's like he's now had two
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: bodies servants killed by the Golam, right, no, just one alive.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: Didn't Lopin take over when Narium was killed.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Matt took on Lopen because Nlsian died. But Nalsian was
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: a fellow nobleman.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, but didn't Matt have one of his man
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: servants killed?
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah? No, no, no, he's had two man servants this
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: whole time, and this is the time he got a
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: man servant killed.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: Who's this other one?
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: Narm?
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: Oh? Oh gee, I got Naram and Elysium mixed up.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry to n words.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: It's name.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know where your problem is. Oh oh, no,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: you're right, because because Matt says I need a new
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: serving man to Elane. So you're right. This is his
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: second serving man to get killed. I forgotten Narim died.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: I'm a lot fan. I'm a bad fan.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. Narim died. I just got the
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: name wrong, that's all, okay, all right?
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: No, fair enough, fair enough?
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: Uh? And I did find Riddam is named for Tom
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: for Tim Riddle, a fan of the Wheel of Time boom,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: so he is a fan insert.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah spidy senses on point.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well there's two of them together, that's the other one.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah sure yeah, so Tim Riddle, congratulations.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: We found you. San Nole comes rushing up, apologizing to
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: Matt for scaring him by taking by having all for
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: sleeping somewhere else, like I'm so sorry. I should have
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: gotten him home, and Matt's like absolutely never apologized for
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: keeping him over at your house. He's alive, because thank
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: you so much for a grandpa's sleepover.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's like if a car hits the house and
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: plows right through your kid's bedroom and he's like staying
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: at his grandparents' house and you're like, oh my god,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: thank god.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: Right, and they're like, oh, I'm sorry, we should have
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: called you, but like our phone died, and it's like,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: don't care, don't care, it's fine, don't care, it's fine.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but you have that moment in a panic because
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: he's you know, like, oh my god, you know.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: He's supposed to be there, and you like go in
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: looking for the body, right, and like the Golam would
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: not have spared.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: A child, absolutely absolutely not.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: I like how they're they're thinking, you know, and they
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: jump later an hour later, blah blah blah. They're like,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: we hope that he will never know how close he
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: came to dying. Yeah, I suspect he's going to find
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: out someday. Some day, some drunken Red Arm is going
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: to tell him when he's like nineteen, and he's going
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: to be like, wait, what happened? I was doing?
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: What I was a story? Oh my god? Well, because
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: I can just imagine Matt and Oliver being like, Oliver
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: is going to grow up and like be this adventurer, right,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: so Matt is of course going to be involved with that.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of the other Red Arms. You know,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: he's going to be visiting these guys wherever it is
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: that they decided to finally retire to. He's going to
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: go visit his uncles and whatever. And yeah, stories that
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: were not meant to be told to him will eventually
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: be told to him.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: Because he's gonna have to go off and find the
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: uh aeel who killed his parents.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: Right, He's going to need to meet a lot of
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: side quest characters with little quest assignments along the way.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: Do you even figure out? I mean, like, because it's
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: it's basically like no way to find out which particular
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: iel killed his parents. Right, there's I always imagine like
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: he's going to go on this quest that will never
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: be possible to be fulfilled.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: Oh for sure, exactly. He can't let it go despite
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: the fact that even if it was possible to find
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: the man who killed his parents or his dad, like
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: I probably died at like do my as wells, right,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: or you know one of the other many times y'all
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: just got fucking blasted.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Malden, because we know they were shido right, Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: It was Shidow. So yeah, that person probably died at Maldon, honestly.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: And if he didn't, they're back in the waist, dying
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: slowly from the waist.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: And yeah, Oliver will never find them in the waist,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: there's no. But that doesn't mean he won't meet every
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: interesting person in all of Middle Earth trying to find.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: Them, right, Right, So it's the quest for the Holy Grail.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: The point is not to find the Holy Grail. The
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: point is to go on the quest, right exactly.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: And he is going to write such a good book
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: at the end.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: Of that, yeah, Rival Jane forst Writers.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: Exactly, the first book to ever come close to touching
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: that book will be from.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: Oliver and he'll be like, so in my childhood I
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: was with Matt.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: And no one will believe him. Right, Oh right. So
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: here's the explanation for why Tuon is on the hit list.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: Is because the Red Arm was captured and tortured by
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: the Golam.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: But I can't believe neither one of us don't remember that.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I highlighted it in my notes, but that was
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: like a whole two hours ago. Why would I remember It's.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: Not me when I'm being like, oh, it's Barren, it's
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: not Barren, it's not Barren, could have been, it's not.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: It's probably not.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: Can you go back to that section and be like, yeah,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: so even though we know it was dry, I'm just
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: going to pretend. Let's pretend like we don't know that
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: and then talk about this as though Varren was the one.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: We're just going to pretend that we don't remember that, Okay,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: and then this next section we're going to talk like
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: Varren is the one who did it.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Editing alradio rather than.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: Just I could make that work editing already.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: By the way, we're wrong.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, Darry was kidnapped, tortured, and one would assume
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: told them everything about Matt that he knew, except for Oliver.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: Oliver was not mentioned on the hitlist. Did Dari protect Oliver?
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: Did the goal? I'm not care about Oliver. What's going
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: on there?
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: It might just be that the goal one of those
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: like didn't think to ask about children.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: Could be, could definitely be. And Darry was like, I'm
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: not going to volunteer a child's name if it's exactly
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: exactly going to help me get out of this moment
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: of torture. Yeah, well, I love being stupid on recording.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: It's great, humbler.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: The whole point of that is that you can added
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: to make yourself sound smarter.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: Except when you make it a whole comedic bit.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: Well, fair enough, then you just you're hanging a hanging
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: a what's that term, not hanging a noose on it,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: hanging a picture on.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: Hanging yourself by your own petard, hoisting yourself by unpetard.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: No, that's not, although very close to what I was
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: trying to say. No, it's it's when there's a mistake
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: and instead of trying to cover it up, you frame
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: it and like show it off and be like.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: Here's the mistake, and is there a term for that.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: There's there's a there's a there's a literary term for it.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, happy accidents would be the Bob Ross way of
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: looking at it.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: But it's hanging as something this is.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: Actually new to me today.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: I'm learning let's see, Oh my god, having.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: A bit of a mondala effect on yourself.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is really frustrating. Hmm all right, I don't know.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: I can't find it.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: Happy accidents. We know that one, but.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: It's it's specifically a phrase referring to if you've made
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: like a continuity error. Instead of like ignoring it, be like, oh, yeah,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: that's a continuity error. We made that. We did that
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: for this reason, like have your characters go back and
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: address it or be like, I can't remember.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: It's like like an element of breaking the fourth wall
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: to it kind of thing, a.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: Little bit, a little bit of just being like, you know,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: we know it's ridiculous, but ah fuck.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: I know the vibe you're talking about. I just can't
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: think of any phrase that encapsulates it succinctly, that has
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: a little pizzazz of a literary reference and roll with
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: it obviously is a way of expressing that but like
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: I can't think of it.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really struggling to It's one of those things
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: like put a sock on it or you know, Uh,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: it's like just a dumb phrase.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: You know. Well, when you remember it as you're falling
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: asleep tonight, try to remember to text me about it tomorrow.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: We'll do.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: We'll do, because I believe you. I just don't think
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: i've ever heard it.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: So Okay, back to the chapter. That's the chapter where
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: Matt's talking about hunting the golm right with Heslim.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: Tom and Knowle. He's thinking about, Oh, if it's going
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: to go after two on, it wouldn't do that, right,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: it wouldn't. There's only one way to keep it from
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: hurting my wife, kill it, right. This is this is
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: the he's been deciding he wants to fight it, like
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: all throughout this episode. This is when the decision is
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: fully set.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: When it threatened his wife.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when it almost hurt his kid and is actively
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: threatening his wife. Like now, the vague feeling that he
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: has to face it is concrete. It's not vague anymore.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: And he says, I don't know what we're going to
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: do to kill it, but I know that there's an
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: article out there that has fifty ways to kill a
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: gall um listed on it, so we're going to just
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: work our way through all fifty and.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: They do like one. I do believe that pushing it
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: off a platform and letting it fall forever is one
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: of the ways.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe that is the lore of that story,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: is that people did actually think of the way to
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: do it that ultimately gets used in the book Hang
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: a lantern on it. Yes, Mom Jeans has finally come
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: through with your with your phrase.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: Thank you hanging lantern on I knew it was ancept
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: thing picture frame and I was like, that's not right,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: it's hanging something on it. Hanging a lantern on it
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: is a writing technique where the writer acknowledges a potential
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: inconsistency issue in the story, reassuring the audience that they
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: are aware of it, and ask them to accept the
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: narrative as presented. This helps maintain trust and engagement with
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: the story, being like, I know this doesn't make sense now,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: but I'm doing that on purpose because later it will
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: make sense. We're going to come back to that, or like, yes,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: this is this is okay, all right?
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: So the phrase is either hanging a lantern on it
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: or lamp shading. I have never heard that phrase before.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, lamp shading. Yes, I've heard it called lamp shading before.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, fascint, Thank you Mom Jeans And also amazing serendiputy,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: you were holding a lantern and a frame while this
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: conversation was going down on the recording. That's amazing. The
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: pattern was with us on that one. Really needed us
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: to get that literary reference. All right, awesome, I have
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: learned to do phrase today, lamp shading.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: Jimmy was not a lander Matt laundry mat this Sunday,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: but it's already been established that Jimmy goes to the
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: laundermat every Saturday. The lantern jim Sarah knows Jimmy's there
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: to create intrigue by pointing out clues. Sarah was at
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: the lunery mount until noon, but there was no sign
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: of Jimmy Odd odd right, that level of like character
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: noticing something inconsistent and not just like stating in the
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: narration and never going back to it. Okay, so you're
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: pointing it out in a way that's saying I'm going
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: to address this.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: Later, making it narratively obvious, like you, No, you didn't
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: catch me in an inconsistency. I got to it first.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: All right, cool, why were we even talking about that?
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: I've completely lost the thread of why that was brought.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: Up Varren and dairy.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: Oh maybe, yeah, yeah, and.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: The whole editing process to like make it fine, right right, right,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: right right, we're like meta meta meta now med at
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: this point, right right.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: I'm hanging a lantern on my mistake about dairy and
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: making it funnier because yes, got it, lamp shading, my ass.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: But is it a sexy lamp? That's what I want
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: to know.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: Well, and you can gas light about a lamp shade?
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, you can.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: No, No, I always knew that was a problem. I
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: totally didn't make a mistake, and in retconning.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: It, yeah, Gnome was always able to talk mentally with Yeah.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: Anyway, Oh, editing a radio, I'm sorry.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Editing a radia is definitely more gray haired
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: than recording a radia.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: So they're sort of forming a strategy. He's going to
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: sleep in a different end every night. They have to
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: take the boy with him because it's.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: The only way to keep him safe and out of trouble.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: Right, I mean it's more of fear.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: He left Heslin behind thinking she'd be safe, and then
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: she was killed. So the goal he can't leave the
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: boy anywhere he's been unprotected.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he will do that mistake once in his
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: life and that is it.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: Then there's the Matt Grimace, the way all of her
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: leered at women. If he ever found out which of
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: the Red Arms was teaching the boy to act that
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: way around women, It's you, Matt.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: It's you. You are the problem.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 3: It's this is where I say this this chapter is
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: aggressively Matt. It's both using a bunch of the He's
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: old consistent, like this is something that Jordan said over
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: and over and over again, and Sanderson's bringing it up,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: but he's also sort of and he's doing the whole
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: checking women out, and like, I just feel like this
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: is aggressively. Aggressively Uh, Sanderson saying I finally got Matt
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: a little bit. Whether he has him or not, he's
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: got a better version of him than he had in
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: the first book.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: Aggressively Matt is definitely the way to describe this. This
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: is so mad. We're like reprising everything Matt's ever done,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: pulling out all of his little phrases and mannerisms.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: We've got dice in the head, We've got luck, We've
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: got wow. Why is my bluck up luck?
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: Ever?
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: You know, what is Tavereen doing for me? All of
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: his lord? Yeah? Oh yeah, I'm not a bloody lord
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: like this.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: Is just like, you know, a little bit of lace.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: Oh my god? Yeah god, it's matt catchphrase city. If anything,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: That's my problem with his chapter is it's like, did
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 3: you have to do all Matt all at once?
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: Apparently?
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: No, not a parent He's not doing parent, you said. Apparently.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: Oh oh we done with this recording yet.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm I'm way off topic. I'm so sorry. I
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 3: would bet a little tired, you bad buns. I might
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: be a little tired.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Okay, So they're planning all that, and
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: then a different Isidie comes up to Matt's tent and
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: calls for him, And this is the less fun Isidie
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: that we enjoy less. It is Jolene basically coming to
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: give the same information and request as Teslain, but with
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: way more attitude and a lot less gratitude.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: And he has a good line where he's like, okay,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 3: you can have the horses. I already promised them Teslin anyway.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Mike Drop, just chef kiss Mike Drop. You didn't
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: even have to come ask at all because Tesla and
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: already did.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: And then he's like, uh, I need to go talk
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: to the queen, and Julian's like, are you going to
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: swear to her too? And He's like, fuck, yeah.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: How well is she gonna know it's me? Which, in fairness,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: his colorful language and bad spelling is why Nori brings
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: it to Elaine a formal letter with you know, spell
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: check and letterhead. Nor just puts it in spam. But
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: if it's got like really creative spelling and doodles, well
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: now we need a human eye on it, or a
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: queen's eye in this case.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 3: Right right, Yeah, he got past the spam filters by
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: being really weird exactly.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: I mean it's like when you text your friends and
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: you want them to know that it's you, and you
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: use in jokes, right. This is Matt's equivalent of an
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: in joke because him and Aline don't have much in
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: the way of in jokes, but swearing is one of
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: the things that they can bond on.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: Oh and you think I'm domb and can't spell. Okay,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: I'll send you a letter that's spelled really poorly, and like, yeah,
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: it's just it's I get why he does it. I
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: really hate the letter. I really hate the letter in
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: kran that's poorly spelled.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: The letter itself is frustrating, but the sibling dynamic between
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: Matt and Elaine that it carries is great. Yeah, right right,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: And her letter back to him, or her verbal response
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: back to him, is funny. It's just it's close, it's close,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: it's close.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: The letter is just too childish.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: Just a skosh, too childish. But yeah, there you have it,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: Matt's Knight on the town with death and mayhem.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: The I would call it the beginning, Sanderson saying, hey,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: we're going to kill the goalm off. Now we're starting
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: that plot line.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: Which, like, at this point, as a first time reader
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: through his books, I was like, I know that Sanderson
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: does an amazing action sequence, and the Golomb has been
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: impossibly scary, so I'm really excited that Sanderson is saying,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: let's take down the Golomb. I'm like, all right, dude,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: I trust you to make this very fun and I
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: will not be disappointed spoilers. Now, I love that fight.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: The spinning multiple spinning Ashindari is such a great visual
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: to hurt him.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then when he just like plants a boot
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: in his chest and spits after him, and it's just
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: so good. I'm so excited for that.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 3: Like I said, my only problem with that scene is
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: the aren't shadow spawn dying when they go through gateways?
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 3: The answer is not goals apparently.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: For reasons which we can pontificate on literally forever.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: But I do think that that one of the reasons
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: the Golam got to him so fast is it got
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: gateweight there.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: No, that totally makes sense. That totally makes sense. My
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: my explanation was really reaching because yeah, I just forgot
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: that they can pass through gateways.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 3: Ah well, anyway, well that was a fun one. That
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 3: was That was good. I always enjoy a little bit
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: of Matt.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it started out slow, but by the end we
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: really had picked up some steam and it was fun.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 3: Well, having having the golm I think was definitely fun.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's more fun when he's in danger.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely when he's being attacked. But yeah, thanks for
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: joining us again. That was that was a lot of
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: fun and we're back to some parent chapters next week,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: so strap in.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and otherwise I don't know. Listen to podcasts that
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: I make, and I make a lot of them. There's
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: a lot of them. There's show notes, did links. Listen
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: to them? Also, people, you should come to my support
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: group on Thursdays. Why are you not coming to my
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: support grup on thursdays? Do it?
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 3: I work?
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: Poor?
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: Excuse what that's the only excuse?
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: No, it's it's a problem. If only I could clone
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: myself m I know.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: That feeling, then I could go to go to work
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: and come to your sessions.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, then I could do sessions far more often.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: But anyhow, everyone out there, you should drink some water.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: I know I give that advice a lot. But it's
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: as good today as it was yesterday.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: And then I think we should do patreons next week.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: We should do patreons next week.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: We've had a few. I've seen a few come through
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: this past month or two.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: We always we always get a couple after we announced Patreon,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: not always, but with the most frequent time is when
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: we do a big long list of patrons and then
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: like two or three weeks later, when people actually listen
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: to the episode or when it gets published. You know,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: we always get a surge right after that, so it's
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: almost like thanking our patreons. Remember Mind's people. Oh yeah,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: I want to be a Patreon.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: It is so important to plug your stuff constantly on
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: the internet, on podcasts, wherever you're doing your thing. It
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: is so important to plug where people can find you
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: and that they should support you when you publish your stuff.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: It is so hard to do that. It feels so
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: narcissistic and self aggrandizing and selfish and just all these
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: bad things. But as a consumer of said content, you know,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: it's really important that people remind you. It takes seventeen
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: reminders before you sign up for a thing or whatever.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, so thank you to everyone for joining our Patreon,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: and yeah we'll do patreons this time probably, and then yeah,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: we can struggle through your name, which is definitely a
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: perk for some people.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: I'm here to butcher it. What can I say, I'm
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: a butcher of names.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: Yep, that's what we do.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: So if you want to hear your name mispronounced in
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: a probably unique way, feel free to put it in
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: there for me. A Radia can attest, OURDA can attest.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in fairness, that was not the most unique mispronouncing
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: my name I've ever heard, But yeah, I'm pretty sure
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: we've come up with some wild ones on here. Anyway.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: I think if you listen through to the after show,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: you can hear us talk about stuff to do with
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: the show, the Amazon show, and it's lack of existence.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: But if you don't want to hear about that, then
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: now's your chance to leave.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: Bye bye.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: We gathered here today to discuss the perversion of rights
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: from Sonia to Amazon to iWant.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 3: Fill me in. I have some idea of what happened.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: I've read some stuff, but what's your understanding of what's
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 3: going on here?
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: The rights that Amazon and Sony have to the Wheel
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: of Time show have gone back to iWant otherwise known
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: as Red Egal Entertainment. Who is who was holding it
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: first ever since Jordan sold them stuff like back in
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: the odds. That is the extent of what I know,
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: And they that I read was yes, and they released
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: Winter Dragon and everything else is just pure speculation, but
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: those I believe are the facts.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: The only other thing I want to talk about was
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: the Wheel of Time trading card game that they appear
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: or the card the Sorry, not the card game.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: It's an online rpg.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the online rpg, isn't it. Cards of Time?
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: It's not Cards of Time. No, no, no Cards of Time
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: as Koalasa dies, lovely little trading card thing.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: Sorry, cards of Eternity. There we go, I believe is
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: what it's called.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that they I remember them mentioning that, like
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: when the show first got announced or something like, that's
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: an old thing they've been kicking around.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: Maybe I'm googling the wrong thing, hold on something. They
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: announced something pretty recently.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: But yeah, they've had this obsession with AI generated art
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: stuff like for the past as long as AI generated
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: art has been a popular trending thing. So for the
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: past three four years.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 3: News broke the Wheal Time franchise was being adopted into
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: an open world role playing game from IWAT Studios. I
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 3: just I can't take them seriously. They've they've made so
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 3: many announcements about big things that have never ever ever
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: come to pass. The only thing they did that ever
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: ended up accomplishing anything was literally selling the rights to
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 3: Sony and Amazon. And so the only time they've ever
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: produced any anything they produced the nineteen nineties first person
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 3: shooter game that was like you're an isid eye and
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: you pick up angry all as like spells.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I've read reviews of that game. Some
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: people have said it's pretty fun.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: It's it's a decent game, but only because it's just
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: Quake with a skin on it, right like.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: So it was a good game before it was reskinned.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: So it has nothing to do with Wheel of Time
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: really in any way, shape or form. Like, it's other
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: than they name a few things. You're casting spells instead
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: of shooting things. Like they skinned it a little bit,
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: but it is it's not a Wheel of Time game,
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: so there's no lore. You're a nameless first of all,
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 3: you're an accepted you're not even an isid eye, right like,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 3: And so that therefore you can't channel, so you can
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: only use on greall, which is just like wait on
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: grell you can use those one channeling. It doesn't make
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: any sense anyway, So they've done that. They put out
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: the comic book that had a couple of issues via.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: The worldl the graphic novel. Yes, oh that's right, Eagle,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: iHeart WoT.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: They put that out and it was really successful until
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: they refused to pay the artist and he gave up,
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: and then they had a really bad artist to finish
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 3: out the book, and we have a series of really
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 3: really bad comics after the really really good ones, and
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 3: then they canceled it.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: Huh. I have never really bothered to pursue why there
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: aren't more of the graphic novels. I never thought about
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: that once with my conscious brain, but I did know
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: that there's like, yeah, two and then there's mmm.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: The other thing that I want has done is, you know,
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: by they maintained all merchandising rights to the Wheel of Time,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 3: so Amazon, the company that sells physical things, couldn't sell
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 3: any merch to the Wheel of Time TV show, which
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 3: may have had a lot to do why it was canceled.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: Because if you can't make money off of something through merchandise,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: that's a huge junk of potential income. Band I Julie
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 3: produced a few things right on the side because they
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: had a pre existing agreement. But Amazon wasn't producing any
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 3: of the T shirts, ran sweater, like the rings, the swords,
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 3: all that stuff could have been sold, you know, just
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: all the costuming, right, Why wasn't Why aren't they making
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 3: replicas and selling it.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: I want and I want made Winter Dragon, right.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 3: And I want made Winter Dragon?
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, when they were read Eagle Entertainment, Yes, I.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: Want and read Egal all are the same company.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah wow Yeah. I mean with musicians, some
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: of the most amount of profit that musicians make is
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: from physical sales of like T shirts and CDs and posters.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: Like touring is about getting people's eyeballs on the merch right.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: So I don't know how well that translates to the TV,
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: but it seems like there should be some equivalent to Yeah,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: if you have a product in an entertainment piece, you
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: should give people the ability to buy objects associated with
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: said art.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 3: So, you know, as a company announcing this, you know, oh,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 3: we're going to make this incredible boulders Gate three type
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 3: style game that's going to be you know, it's just
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 3: like I don't believe you.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: It's like, I mean, I fucking wish, but yeah, I
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: know you're not You're not like I.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: Just I you know, it's it's the Anchorman scene. I
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 3: don't believe you, Like I just don't. It's it's whatever
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 3: they say is not believable. And when when serious news
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 3: organizations take them seriously, and they're like, here's the announcement,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: and we think it's actually going to happen this time.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, well they've had the wolf pulled over
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 3: your eyes too. Now, if they sold the rights to
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 3: another company to make a product, then I might believe it.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: Which is totally possible. They now can do that because
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: Sony and Amazon have given the rights back. I want
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: could sell the rights. No, not holding my breath that
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: they will.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: But and and it will always be a you know,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: it's very obvious they have a it will revert back
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 3: to us, right. That's that was the whole point of
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 3: Winter Dragon. That's why it existed, because they have these
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 3: contracts where it should be reverting back to Harriet, it
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 3: should be reverting back to Team Jordan, right, And it's
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 3: it's these other people, these business schools who got Jordan's
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 3: to deal with them back in the nineties, promising him
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 3: all these things that it turns out they couldn't do,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 3: and now they're sitting on it basically as patent trolls.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, Robert Jordan made one mistake. He was a
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: perfect man, never made any mistakes. He made one mistake.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: He was signing with these fuckers. Oh, that's such a
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: it's such a bummer. It's such a bummer. It's such
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: a good IP. And these are such ridiculous, petty troll
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: reasons for it to not be getting actualized. Like, these
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: are not good reasons. It's bad reasons.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 3: And it's so funny because it's like I could be
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: making a lot more money if they would release some
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 3: of the controls.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: I wonder what stick is up their ass?
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 3: Exactly a business stick.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: I've seen businesses make better choices than these people. Like
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: many other ips have managed to come to Fruition without
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: a winter Dragon level of shit stain along the way.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but they got in, they got in the nineties
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 3: in a way that doesn't well, it doesn't matter. Don't
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 3: talk about the book. I think I'm done talking about that.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 3: That that's me. I'm just like, oh yeah, real world politics, bullshit.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 3: It sounds awful and uh, just you know, I guess
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 3: my closing statement on that is just like any announcement
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: with Wheel of Time, and I want like just take
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: it with a big grain assault and assume it's not
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 3: going to happen until they show actual evidence of it happening.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm nodding. Let's get to the book. Thank you
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Please
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: rate and review us on your podcast app and consider
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watt Spoilers
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For more
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: podcasts from Fox and Draven Media, visit our website at
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: foxendravenmedia dot com.