Latest / Tribe and Tribulations With Julia Makowsky / Blindsided Pregnant. Found Herself After Divorce. | Charlotte's Story

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Blindsided Pregnant. Found Herself After Divorce. | Charlotte's Story · Tribe and Tribulations With Julia Makowsky

• 0:00
  This can't be my life that every year my husband's trying to leave me.
• 0:04
  Was there a moment you realized that you had to figure it out for yourself?
• 0:08
  I moved to Israel when I was 18 years old.
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  I've been on my own this entire time.
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  And now here I am, 24, with a one-year-old daughter, no money, having to move in with her parents.
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  It was such a, like, blow for me.
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  I was just like, I'm a mother now.
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  I want to take care of my daughter.
• 0:25
  I want us to have a beautiful life, and I want it to come from me.
• 0:28
  Now I can say, I don't need a man.
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  I want a man.
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  I want someone to come into my life, but I don't need someone to come rescue me.
• 0:34
  There are so many things in life that we have no control over.
• 0:39
  We don't get to choose it, but we do get to choose how we respond to it.
• 0:46
  Welcome back to Tribe Interrelations.
• 0:48
  I am Julia Makowski, and I am so happy you're here.
• 0:51
  Today, I am joined with Charlotte.
• 0:54
  Most of you probably know her as Danielle's mom.
• 0:58
  And I wanted to sit down with Charlotte because her life went a little differently than she originally planned.
• 1:05
  She got married young, had a baby young, and then got divorced young.
• 1:10
  She's dating again and building a whole new chapter of her life.
• 1:14
  which actually got me thinking about something I talk about a lot on here.
• 1:18
  We make all these plans for our lives, and we actually have no idea what's coming.
• 1:25
  You can do everything right.
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  You can get married on time.
• 1:27
  You could have kids when you're supposed to, and you can build a life that could still throw a curveball your way.
• 1:34
  So I don't really want this conversation to be about divorce, but I want to talk about what happens when plans change.
• 1:42
  how you pick yourself up, how you make sure you don't completely lose yourself in any one role, and how you become someone who knows whatever life throws at you, you'll be able to handle it.
• 1:54
  So welcome to Tribe Interbulations, Charlotte.
• 1:57
  We're so happy to have you.
• 1:59
  Thanks for having me.
• 1:59
  I'm so happy to be here.
• 2:02
  So for those of people who don't know you or your background at all, can you give me a little bit about you?
• 2:09
  For sure.
• 2:10
  So I was born and raised in Long Island, New York.
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  I had just like such a perfect childhood.
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  I loved absolutely everything about it.
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  I'm the oldest of eight.
• 2:23
  Wow.
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  We're six girls, two boys.
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  So really a girl like...
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  My sister has eight and she has seven girls, one boy.
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  Oh, my God.
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  So, like, I get it.
• 2:33
  Yeah.
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  And I'm just, like, the ultimate big sister.
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  Like, that's been, like, the biggest theme in my life is, like, big sister, nurture, vibes.
• 2:41
  I'm also a cancer.
• 2:44
  Same girl.
• 2:45
  So like so much of it, I really resonate with like a lot of like the cancer aspects.
• 2:52
  But yeah, like big sister has been like the biggest theme in my life.
• 2:57
  And then I came to Israel for seminary.
• 2:59
  Once I was here in Sam, I was just like, I never want to leave Israel.
• 3:03
  I ended up drafting.
• 3:05
  And then a few years later, I think I was here like three years or so.
• 3:09
  And my family was like, OK, we're also going to make Aliyah now.
• 3:12
  Wow.
• 3:12
  And Baruch Hashem.
• 3:13
  So now I'm living the life like it's really just like the old dream that really is family comes.
• 3:21
  Because most people who have like make Aliyah, especially a lone soldier.
• 3:26
  Yeah, you're really lone.
• 3:27
  Like people do not understand how hard that can be.
• 3:32
  So that's an amazing gift.
• 3:34
  Yeah.
• 3:35
  Like my younger sister just had drafted.
• 3:38
  She drafted a few years ago.
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  She just finished her service.
• 3:40
  But watching her go through like her army service versus my army service, I was like, this is just so like it was so different seeing like how her weekends were spent versus like as a lone soldier.
• 3:51
  But yeah, my whole family is here now.
• 3:54
  And so I've really had them to like lean on.
• 3:57
  I would not.
• 3:59
  Every like once in a while, I would let my mind go back to like, what if I went through all of this without my family here?
• 4:06
  Like, I have no idea how I would have done it without them.
• 4:10
  Right.
• 4:11
  It's such a you never know what Hashem is doing when he's doing things.
• 4:16
  Yeah.
• 4:18
  To be able to have a support system, especially in there's a lot of bureaucracy in Israel.
• 4:23
  So I don't I can't even imagine going through what you went through as an American.
• 4:30
  But on top of that, learning the system here and having to navigate that, that was probably really hard.
• 4:37
  Right.
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  Also, like.
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  We did want to keep it through mediation, and then, unfortunately, that's not what happened, and we ended up going to court.
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  And so there just are so many different things.
• 4:47
  Or I'll have people in the states calling, like, people who mean well wanting to, like, really be there for me and saying, oh, but in the states, like, this is what a father gets or this is what a dad gets, like, this is what he should be giving you.
• 5:00
  I was like, OK, but like it's so different here.
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  Like I can't think about what it is that is going to happen.
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  Like what you know from the states isn't what's going to help me like knowing here.
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  Also, at the end of the day, like my situation is my situation.
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  Like it's really different.
• 5:16
  It's different.
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  Like I had people always coming to me saying, like, my friends do this custody arrangement.
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  Like, what about this?
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  And I was just like, they're not we're we're two very different people.
• 5:26
  So we have to just focus like on who we are, like me as mom, him as dad and like where like what works best for us.
• 5:35
  When you were younger, what did you think your life was going to look like?
• 5:40
  I thought my life was just going to be perfect.
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  Obviously, like, I've had my challenges with friends growing up in high school.
• 5:49
  Like, I went through, like, my small little things.
• 5:52
  But overall, like, Baruch Hashem, money wasn't, like, an issue with my family.
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  I had great relationships with all of my siblings.
• 6:01
  My parents, like my parents, even with their parents, like have great relationships.
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  I come from Baruch Hashem.
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  I had my great I grew up with my great grandparents, my grandparents.
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  And not even that on top of it, actually, my father's parents are divorced.
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  And at.
• 6:21
  any like family simcha or even if we were going over to my great grandmother's house, my grandfather was always invited.
• 6:28
  Like he was there.
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  So that's what I have as an example of divorced parents that like when there's a family gathering or something going on for your kids, you're all there.
• 6:37
  So then when I actually had my daughter's birthday party for like her two year old birthday party, I invited my ex.
• 6:44
  I was like, hey, I don't know if you're comfortable.
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  We might not be there, but I want you to know, like, you're always going to be invited to her like events.
• 6:53
  But yeah, so I I just thought like that was family was.
• 6:58
  Everything like the biggest aspect of my life.
• 7:00
  Yeah.
• 7:01
  How old were you when you got married?
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  I was 23 when I got married.
• 7:06
  Okay, so by all, by I would say secular standards, that's really young.
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  But by community standards, that's like a mature adult in our world.
• 7:17
  Yeah, right.
• 7:19
  How long did you date your ex for?
• 7:20
  We dated for a month and then we broke up.
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  And then we got back together like a month later and we were together for two months until we got engaged.
• 7:30
  And then we were together for another three months until we got married.
• 7:34
  I know the story well, because I got married after my husband was older and we were yeshivish.
• 7:43
  And what happened was we dated for two months, engaged for two and a half months, married.
• 7:49
  And it worked for me.
• 7:52
  But that is not the reality for a lot of people, because they end up meeting each other, enjoying each other's company, but...
• 8:02
  But as time goes on, there's more that meets the eye, right?
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  Like it's not simple getting to know somebody quickly.
• 8:12
  And there's a lot of that within the community.
• 8:15
  Do you think that if you had more time, you would have been able to see that maybe this wouldn't have been the right match for you?
• 8:24
  So I have thought about this a lot.
• 8:26
  I've definitely had friends who have like asked me along those lines.
• 8:33
  I think it was something that we really needed to be living.
• 8:39
  Like, I don't think I would have seen any of this until we were living together.
• 8:44
  Like, I don't think that any of our issues that we had would have come up until we were actually living together.
• 8:50
  And I think there also was the fact of, like, we're married.
• 8:55
  Like, we are really in this.
• 8:59
  And not that like there's no escape, but like there kind of is like obviously there's divorce, but in a sense there is like no escape.
• 9:08
  There's no getting out of it.
• 9:10
  Like once you're in it, you're in it.
• 9:12
  And I think that there was also something with that that was just like a little.
• 9:17
  Did either one of you feel trapped?
• 9:20
  I don't want to speak for him, but I do think that that was like that that might have been something.
• 9:26
  There was finality in it.
• 9:28
  Yeah.
• 9:28
  Yeah.
• 9:30
  I think that most people, when they're going into relationships, I see a lot of people sitting across the couch from me and through my practice or on the podcast.
• 9:40
  I think marriage is a scary commitment for most people.
• 9:44
  And people don't take it so seriously because it doesn't...
• 9:49
  Everyone gets married, basically.
• 9:51
  Right.
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  Like it's so common.
• 9:53
  Not so much anymore, but it's so common.
• 9:55
  And so we just think like, OK, we'll get married and then we live happily ever after like a fairy tale.
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  But there is so much that goes on behind the scenes and learning a different person who isn't raised the same way you're raised doesn't.
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  we're talking about minute details even.
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  We're talking about like, oh, they eat gefilte fish and I eat Moroccan salmon.
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  Like it doesn't make any sense.
• 10:22
  My husband and I are both Ashkenaz.
• 10:25
  We're both Ashkenaz.
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  We're both, we grew up, I'm from, from birth, but my parents are Balchua.
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  His family is from, from birth and they went to like base Yaakov religious schools.
• 10:37
  And we, even though we had something similar to,
• 10:41
  It was so hard our first year because we came from different worlds, even though it seemed on paper like it was all the same.
• 10:50
  But it was right.
• 10:52
  So I think when we go into relationships, it's really hard to know what you're getting yourself into.
• 10:57
  And it really is.
• 10:59
  There's a lot of divine intervention in it.
• 11:05
  Do you think that if you were looking back at all the things, would you change anything?
• 11:16
  I really try not to actually dwell on this question too often because I have my daughter.
• 11:23
  And so there is no way that any of this could have turned.
• 11:28
  And honestly, even where I am like in my life now, obviously, like being a single mom isn't the plan, but who I am as a person, I never would have gotten to like be this strong, independent, like woman that like mother that I am had I not gone through all of this and
• 11:47
  So as much as like, of course, I wish that I could take away all of the pain that happened.
• 11:53
  But on the other hand, that like it's brought me to this really like just beautiful place that I'm at now and that like I have my daughter.
• 12:01
  I don't like dwell on and try and like pick at the little things.
• 12:06
  The reason why I ask is not because I want you to like have introspection or like, oh, no, I regret X, Y and Z.
• 12:13
  It's more like that as a person, we go through challenges.
• 12:19
  Everybody goes through challenges.
• 12:21
  But the idea of coming out the other end with this beautiful gift, which is Danielle, and becoming the person you are today, that is something you probably wouldn't have.
• 12:38
  And that is a gift.
• 12:40
  And to recognize it and to be grateful for that is...
• 12:43
  And it's hard because a lot of people don't get there right away.
• 12:48
  They don't get to that part of I'm grateful for what I have right now because the hard times really do the grief of it can take over.
• 12:58
  So that's really impressive at 25 years old, right?
• 13:02
  27.
• 13:02
  Yeah.
• 13:03
  I knew we were 25 when we had when we got divorced.
• 13:06
  Yeah.
• 13:07
  25 when we got divorced.
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  27 now.
• 13:10
  OK, so 27 year old you.
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  What would be an advice you would give your 23 year old self?
• 13:18
  Oh, my gosh.
• 13:19
  There's really so much.
• 13:23
  I think it would be.
• 13:26
  This might be really so specific to the relationship that I was in, but it would really be to like.
• 13:34
  just be strong in who I am.
• 13:38
  Like, I really lost myself in that relationship for a while.
• 13:42
  And I feel like that was what I needed was to like, just be firm and knowing like, who I am as a person, not like, where I want to be like, what things make me me more like, what are my values?
• 13:57
  How do I treat people?
• 13:59
  Do I?
• 14:00
  I know that like,
• 14:02
  who I am, I know that I'm a good person.
• 14:05
  I know what I'm bringing to the table and not letting the people around me, like not letting that noise get in.
• 14:12
  Do you think that becoming a mother, young, it is young, do you think that having this attitude of knowing who I am is something that's important for all women to know before they get into
• 14:32
  I think it's really important to have somewhat of an idea of like who you are, like what makes you, you.
• 14:39
  Um...
• 14:42
  But also, I think there's so much beauty in growing with your husband and also in growing with your children.
• 14:50
  Like there are just so many phases that are going to come in.
• 14:54
  You need to be flexible.
• 14:56
  You really need to be flexible, like in certain aspects when it comes to being a wife and being a mother.
• 15:03
  But you do need to have that core of like, what is it that like I love to do?
• 15:07
  Like one thing I know is like it feels like it's part of me.
• 15:11
  I love music.
• 15:12
  I love music and I love dancing.
• 15:14
  And it's like a way that like I express myself.
• 15:16
  I express my moods.
• 15:20
  Like when I'm happy, I'll dance.
• 15:22
  When I'm sad, I dance.
• 15:23
  Like I really just like need, and I have all the different playlists for every different mood.
• 15:29
  And that's one thing that like I really lost in my marriage.
• 15:34
  I didn't like, I didn't hold on to it.
• 15:37
  I didn't have that outlet.
• 15:38
  Why do you think you lost that part?
• 15:41
  I think part of me might not have been so comfortable with it.
• 15:49
  I don't think I realized at the time, like, how important it was to me to, like, dance in my kitchen.
• 15:55
  And, like, that's something I always look back on because I'm doing it all the time now.
• 16:00
  I'm like, I can't believe I never did this.
• 16:03
  Like, I don't remember ever dancing in my old apartment.
• 16:07
  Do you think that you were...
• 16:10
  I'm going to give you a little bit of like prompts, but was it that you were insecure in the relationship so you didn't feel comfortable or that you didn't have that skill set yet to even know that that's what you needed?
• 16:25
  I definitely didn't have the skill set yet to know that that's what I needed.
• 16:28
  I also...
• 16:32
  I didn't realize that, like, it was something so important to me.
• 16:34
  Like, I was always dancing.
• 16:36
  Like, that was one thing, like, I just love is dancing.
• 16:40
  And I think also I wonder if it's, like, because we were, like, we were Shomer, like, more religious when we got married.
• 16:50
  Yeah.
• 16:51
  And so I wasn't like used to ever dancing with him, like with my husband.
• 16:56
  And so it's something that just I never really got into it.
• 16:59
  I never was like, oh, I like that's like one thing like I dream of now is like when I get married again, like I am.
• 17:06
  So that's like the most thing.
• 17:08
  Like that's the one thing I'm most excited for is to like dance with my husband in my kitchen one day.
• 17:13
  And by the way, that is so possible and so fun.
• 17:16
  I.
• 17:18
  I will say this, that I was very young when I got married and I had kids very young, but I wasn't the same person I was when we first got married that I am now.
• 17:29
  And we grew together.
• 17:32
  And there was this aspect of...
• 17:35
  I love you the way you are, but I also think we need to be on the same page and move in a direction together.
• 17:42
  We're not the same people.
• 17:44
  And I wasn't as confident and comfortable in my relationship, I would say, the first five years because I didn't know myself.
• 17:54
  Right.
• 17:54
  And I think that that's a huge aspect is that recognizing who we are as people and who we want to be is.
• 18:03
  matter.
• 18:05
  So not losing yourself in a relationship and creating yourself in the image of this person at the same time, having respect for one another, knowing that, okay, maybe this works, maybe it doesn't work.
• 18:22
  You building a relationship now with yourself so that when you go into the next relationship, you're like, that's what I want.
• 18:30
  Right.
• 18:30
  That's the dynamic I want.
• 18:32
  I know who I am.
• 18:33
  I had to grow with my husband because I was an infant when I got married.
• 18:36
  Right.
• 18:37
  I didn't have another choice.
• 18:39
  You right now are in a beautiful part of your life where you get to go.
• 18:42
  Oh, I. I get to decide who I want and what kind of life we all want to live together.
• 18:53
  And I think when you're young, a lot of times we like second guess ourselves.
• 18:58
  Yeah.
• 19:00
  And as I've gotten older, I've been able to sort of go, oh, I like this.
• 19:06
  I don't like that.
• 19:08
  I always say like, I didn't even go to the bathroom when my like in the beginning around my husband.
• 19:13
  I was like so I was so young and embarrassed.
• 19:15
  And we also like we weren't we didn't live together.
• 19:18
  We didn't have all these things.
• 19:19
  I didn't know who I was or who he was before we became a we.
• 19:24
  Short Form Media helped me take all the questions out of this very difficult process.
• 19:30
  So if you're looking for help or someone to make you go viral, reach out to Short Form Media.
• 19:38
  Right.
• 19:39
  I actually remember, so I was 23 when I got engaged, and my fiancee at the time brought up like buying a house.
• 19:48
  And I was like, wait, wait, wait.
• 19:49
  Like that was kind of when I got this like, wait, I'm actually really young.
• 19:55
  And my sister was married, I think she was either 19 or 20.
• 19:58
  My sister was a year younger than me and got married 19 or 20.
• 20:01
  And I'm 23 and I'm just like, wait, what do you mean?
• 20:04
  Like buy a house?
• 20:05
  Like we're babies right now.
• 20:07
  And it hit me like we're so young to be getting, like we're getting married.
• 20:12
  This is crazy.
• 20:13
  We're really young.
• 20:14
  And so that's when kind of like age came into perspective for me.
• 20:17
  I was just like, wait, there's so much.
• 20:20
  noise like in this community that like about your age and at what like stage you are in life.
• 20:27
  And so that was such a like week of call for me to like cut it out, like push it away.
• 20:33
  But I really did feel like I had taken.
• 20:36
  Yeah.
• 20:37
  about a year or so to just like really focus on who I was as a person.
• 20:41
  I was working in a seminary like as a madricha.
• 20:45
  And so I was like, okay, now is like the perfect time for me to like figure out what's important for me.
• 20:50
  How do I want my family to look one day?
• 20:53
  And I kind of got like thrilled.
• 20:54
  thrown into the like shidduch dating without realizing um and so it like brought up all these questions because i was going out on dates with guys who were like so do you cover your elbows i was like no like i'm not there yet and they're like what do you mean like i can't come to your house if your mom's in pants i was like okay wait wait like what's going on now um or someone else brought up like so are you going to cover your hair when you get married i was like i have
• 21:24
  There was so much outside noise that I felt like you needed to know the answer to these questions.
• 21:30
  And now in hindsight, I'm like, you actually don't need to know the answer.
• 21:34
  Like, you can take it one step at a time.
• 21:38
  Like, part of me looks back at my marriage because I felt like I had to make that decision.
• 21:42
  Am I going to cover my hair or not before I got married?
• 21:45
  So there are things like that that...
• 21:49
  I think we need to give people the opportunity to explore it while you're there.
• 21:55
  Like, you can't answer, do I want to cover my hair before you're married?
• 22:00
  Because you don't know what it's like.
• 22:02
  Right.
• 22:02
  I think that we all have ideas of what our life will look like.
• 22:06
  And by the way, there's nothing wrong with having an ideal idea in your head, right?
• 22:12
  So I want a certain hushkafa.
• 22:14
  I want a certain this.
• 22:15
  I want a certain person.
• 22:16
  I want a certain lifestyle, okay?
• 22:18
  And that helps you sort of narrow down who you want to date.
• 22:22
  But I think that we need to be honest with ourselves and go, I don't really know who I am.
• 22:26
  And it's okay to shift my perspective even in it.
• 22:29
  Look, I covered my hair for many years and then decided...
• 22:33
  It's not it wasn't comfortable anymore.
• 22:36
  And that's OK. Yeah.
• 22:37
  Like be comfortable, like changing it up, exploring it.
• 22:39
  I actually had heard about when I was talking with my college teacher, she told me about a Rebbiton who like once a week would just or like once a month would just go out with her hair uncovered because like that's what she needed to ground herself.
• 22:52
  And I was like, huh, that's so great.
• 22:55
  So like in that aspect, I feel like.
• 22:58
  I felt like I knew myself or like I felt like I made these decisions before I got married.
• 23:05
  I want to cover my hair.
• 23:06
  This is how I want to be dressing.
• 23:09
  These are the things that I want to go.
• 23:12
  And then I got married and it wasn't like everything wasn't perfect.
• 23:16
  That's not necessarily what my husband wanted.
• 23:18
  Like...
• 23:21
  I was coming out of seminary.
• 23:22
  I was just this Madricha and I had all these girls like looking towards me and I was still working in there in like the seminary also.
• 23:30
  And just like my bubble was a little more from now.
• 23:33
  And so I had just been seeing these religious couples and they're like, well, this is what we do or don't.
• 23:38
  People were saying, don't go to like eat meals, Shauna Rishona.
• 23:43
  And so I was watching all these other couples.
• 23:46
  And my husband was just like, well, that doesn't work for me.
• 23:49
  And I was like, I don't know what to do now.
• 23:51
  And I don't feel like I had anyone to like go over to them and say like, well, he doesn't want to do this or like this isn't what works or honestly, some of it didn't even feel right for me.
• 24:01
  But I still was just doing it because I was like, maybe this is like what I have to push so that it'll bring Bracha into our home.
• 24:10
  I think that you are actually speaking about something that a lot of couples feel because we're taught to live a certain way.
• 24:19
  And if you're in a certain type of dynamic and bubble, these are the standards.
• 24:24
  This is what we do.
• 24:25
  And the thing is, is that feeling confident enough to go, oh, yeah.
• 24:32
  I need to ask somebody, is this normal?
• 24:35
  Also, checking in with yourself and going, I'm feeling isolated.
• 24:39
  Like, I want that connection with other couples and building a community.
• 24:44
  And this relationship is lovely and wonderful.
• 24:47
  And maybe we eat out one of our meals and not both of our meals.
• 24:50
  Having that flexibility that we spoke about is important.
• 24:55
  Yeah.
• 24:55
  And I think that in every situation.
• 24:59
  relationship, recognizing that is really important.
• 25:02
  So you bring up such a valid point.
• 25:05
  Do you think that now you have people to go to if you needed to?
• 25:10
  I always had the people to go to.
• 25:12
  It was just that I wasn't.
• 25:15
  I don't want to say that I wasn't part of me.
• 25:17
  One wasn't comfortable necessarily like going over to them, but I also because I would look at their whether it was their marriage or their relationships, like who they are as people.
• 25:29
  And I didn't see them struggling with it.
• 25:31
  But one, just because I didn't see them struggling with it doesn't mean they aren't struggling with it.
• 25:36
  And two, just because I am struggling with it, and even if they're not, they still might have something, whether it's that they have inspiration or maybe at some point they did or they then know who I could go to that like would help me that like would be better fit for me to talk to about it.
• 25:54
  So I did have the people to go to.
• 25:56
  It's just that I felt insecure going to them.
• 26:01
  Whether there are some people, not even that I felt like I would be judged, but part of me also wanted to keep my, like, the issues private.
• 26:11
  Was there a specific moment or was it gradual when you're like, I don't know if this is going to work long term?
• 26:18
  I always thought it could work.
• 26:20
  There was never a part of me that thought it couldn't work.
• 26:23
  I just thought, I just knew it was going to be really hard.
• 26:29
  There was part of me that was just like, maybe this is the happiest I'll ever be.
• 26:33
  And it was not,
• 26:37
  like I was not happy.
• 26:38
  I was not happy, but I was like, maybe this is just like what my life is going to be.
• 26:44
  Maybe in 10 years or so, like maybe that's when like, I'll feel a little more comfortable, not comfortable, but maybe then like, I'll have some sort of like relief in a sense.
• 26:59
  But I was just like, right now, I don't see that in my like near future, like,
• 27:06
  I want to make something abundantly clear because people will be listening to this and they're going to look to you as an example.
• 27:14
  And they might feel like exactly how you felt where, OK, like maybe I'm just going to I meant to just feel this way forever.
• 27:25
  But marriage is hard.
• 27:27
  Yes.
• 27:29
  But marriage is also really beautiful and loving and fun.
• 27:34
  And if you don't have that, that is something to strive for.
• 27:39
  Yeah.
• 27:40
  And it might not have been in this relationship, but I am I'm sad, actually, that you had to go through that because this idea of that maybe this will just be my life for the rest of my life.
• 27:53
  Mm hmm.
• 27:54
  When in reality, there are so many people who would want to make you happy, who would want a smile to be plastered on your face.
• 28:03
  Maybe not every minute of every day, but every day.
• 28:07
  Mm hmm.
• 28:09
  And marriage can be that with the right person.
• 28:13
  Yeah.
• 28:14
  Sorry you had to go through that.
• 28:17
  It's really unfortunate that I had to go through that and...
• 28:22
  But it does help me see like what to like understand now, like what is OK, what's not OK. And that's really part of why I wanted to like go on Instagram, share my story a little bit because I've been in therapy like basically since we split up.
• 28:41
  Yay therapy.
• 28:44
  I highly recommend.
• 28:46
  But it's really helped me see like my relationship kind of like for what it was.
• 28:55
  And to understand that like I always knew I'm a hopeless romantic.
• 28:59
  So like I knew that there's someone who's going to treat me right that I'm going to meet him at the right time.
• 29:07
  All of that.
• 29:08
  That like marriage should be beautiful.
• 29:11
  And obviously, like, it's going to have its hard pieces.
• 29:15
  And I think that's why also I was so willing to accept that, like...
• 29:21
  It might be hard right now, but hopefully in a few years, things will get better.
• 29:25
  You know, we're going to have more kids.
• 29:26
  And we have we first had the one kid.
• 29:29
  And, you know, we're going to have more.
• 29:31
  So that's why I was like, I got to stick it out.
• 29:34
  So what was the deciding factor when you were like, oh, this is not it.
• 29:39
  Like, I don't want this for Danielle.
• 29:41
  I don't want this for my baby.
• 29:44
  And I don't know if he wants this for our baby.
• 29:46
  Yeah.
• 29:47
  So he was the one actually who kept leaving.
• 29:53
  First, when I was, I think, like, looking back in hindsight, I should have been like, OK, that definitely, like, is a red flag.
• 30:00
  Like, after a few weeks, he broke up with me.
• 30:03
  Then we got back together.
• 30:04
  And then we were married for a few months.
• 30:08
  And I was also already a few months pregnant.
• 30:11
  And he was just like, I need a break.
• 30:13
  So we took like a little break.
• 30:14
  And then eventually, right before I gave birth, he was just like, we're getting divorced.
• 30:19
  So we split up.
• 30:20
  And then we got back together right after I gave birth.
• 30:24
  And then again, less than a year later, he's like, we are getting divorced.
• 30:29
  Yeah.
• 30:32
  And I actually that like I think it was about a week until like I really accepted it after that, like final time.
• 30:44
  But I I sat I went to speak with like my college teacher and who's like a huge mentor for me.
• 30:53
  And then I came home and I begged him.
• 30:55
  There are so many times that I sat there crying to my husband, begging him, saying, it's hard.
• 31:02
  Life is hard.
• 31:03
  But we can get through this.
• 31:05
  We can work through it.
• 31:08
  And it really wasn't until that like final time, I think I tried maybe like two, three times being like, please, like, please let's work on this.
• 31:19
  And he was, he kept, he's like, no, no, no, no.
• 31:22
  And I was just like, I have to accept the situation for what it is.
• 31:26
  If he doesn't want to be married to me, like what am I going to do?
• 31:28
  This can't be my life that every less than a year my husband's trying to leave me.
• 31:32
  I was like, I cannot go through that.
• 31:36
  Also, as an example for your daughter, you are a valuable person.
• 31:44
  Yeah, you are.
• 31:45
  And whether or not this person is able to see it, if they're saying to you, I can't.
• 31:55
  I'm not able to treat you the way you deserve to be treated because you do deserve to be treated well and loved.
• 32:04
  It's so hard to swallow that pill because it sounds like to me, you're not a quitter.
• 32:10
  You wanted to be in this relationship because you just had a baby.
• 32:14
  You had all of these things going on.
• 32:16
  But that is such a challenging situation because we're always told, yeah, marriage is hard.
• 32:22
  But marriage shouldn't be that hard.
• 32:24
  Yeah, 100%.
• 32:24
  And so it was at some point like then that I was just like, I need to figure this out.
• 32:31
  Like I was just like, I need to accept the situation for what it is.
• 32:37
  And that's kind of when I was just like, you know what, I guess like this is just going to be my fresh start.
• 32:43
  And so that's when I was just like, all right, like, let's do this.
• 32:46
  Let's see how it's going to be.
• 32:50
  Looking back.
• 32:52
  what would have prepared you better for the new life you would have now created for yourself?
• 33:02
  That could be financially, that could be emotionally.
• 33:04
  Yeah, I think definitely had I invested in myself more financially.
• 33:09
  I had been working at the start of our marriage and then I was working in the school system.
• 33:16
  I was due in October.
• 33:17
  So like that coming year, I was just like, well, I'm not going to start...
• 33:21
  And I also knew I was going to stay home.
• 33:23
  So it wasn't like I was going to be going through maternity leave and then coming back in a few months.
• 33:27
  So it's like there's no point of me even starting.
• 33:31
  So I do wish that like financially I had had even now, like I just have like a little savings account.
• 33:37
  Like every month I put in like a little bit of money.
• 33:39
  So I wish that like one, just like as a.
• 33:43
  grown up to, like, have something on the side, like, khas v'shalem for whatever reason.
• 33:48
  Even if it's just that, like, you want to go buy yourself something nice, like, one day.
• 33:52
  But, like, you have that.
• 33:54
  So, like, definitely financially.
• 33:55
  Yeah.
• 33:58
  And I also think to have something that as a mom that you can do, because I really didn't want to send my daughter to school.
• 34:08
  She was only she was about to be a year old, and I wanted to keep her home until she was three.
• 34:13
  That was always my plan.
• 34:15
  And it was also just something really important to me.
• 34:18
  I think mostly I really didn't want to send my daughter to school before she could at least talk.
• 34:23
  Like for me, that was something that like I was like, I need that.
• 34:26
  Like as a mom, I need my daughter to be able to go someplace and like tell me what happened.
• 34:30
  Verbalize her needs, things like that.
• 34:32
  Safety.
• 34:33
  I understand that.
• 34:34
  So I was just like, how am I going to make this work right now?
• 34:37
  So it's like have some sort of skill that you could do, whether it's if you send your kid to school, like at whatever age it is, but something that you can kind of just jump into.
• 34:50
  I actually took a course to be a hypnobirthing instructor.
• 34:53
  Amazing.
• 34:54
  I was like, great.
• 34:54
  This is something because I was in the middle of taking a course.
• 34:57
  I had just started my course to become a doula.
• 34:59
  So I was like, this is something like, great.
• 35:00
  They go hand in hand.
• 35:02
  And that's something I could do after hours once my daughter goes to sleep or maybe during nap time.
• 35:07
  You know, you get on a Zoom call with a woman.
• 35:09
  And so like to have something that... Is yours.
• 35:13
  Yeah.
• 35:13
  Yeah.
• 35:14
  It's hard because there is such a value in being home with the kids.
• 35:19
  But my mother always taught me because she lost her father when she was five that you have to be able to support yourself even a little bit.
• 35:31
  And I know that's not a reality for everybody, but you have to have some sort of skill in order to if God forbid something happens, like I never know what tomorrow will bring.
• 35:41
  Nobody does.
• 35:42
  Yeah.
• 35:43
  I think there is this sense that, OK, if we want to be a stay at home mom, then we close the door to opportunities to work.
• 35:52
  But I don't think that it's all or nothing.
• 35:54
  I see it all the time now.
• 35:56
  Like women on Instagram have so many side hustles.
• 35:59
  Everyone is killing it.
• 36:01
  And I think that if you give yourself an opportunity.
• 36:04
  You are in a much better position to feel good about yourself and to.
• 36:13
  Grow in a way that can change the complete trajectory of your life.
• 36:18
  That doesn't mean that we leave our kids at home.
• 36:20
  It doesn't mean any of these things.
• 36:21
  It just opens another door.
• 36:24
  And I think that that's like such a good lesson.
• 36:26
  Yeah, 100%.
• 36:28
  And like having extra skills, like it never hurts anyone.
• 36:32
  No, never, never.
• 36:35
  Was there a moment you realized that nobody else was going to build this next chapter for you?
• 36:40
  So you had to figure it out for yourself.
• 36:43
  Um, it's kind of hard to answer that because my family definitely was like, don't worry about anything.
• 36:54
  We will do everything basically.
• 36:56
  Um, so like, had I not been like, Oh, like I need to figure this out.
• 37:01
  Like my family, when I actually said, you know what, I, I, I,
• 37:07
  We got I had no money, like my own personal account.
• 37:10
  I had no money.
• 37:12
  And I'm like, my parents are not the kind of parents who are like, well, you're an adult now, like you're on your own.
• 37:19
  They're always like there for me and like financially, too.
• 37:24
  So I knew that I had them to go to.
• 37:26
  And so when we were splitting up and it got to the point where we would continue living together for about two months until like we were separated.
• 37:34
  But we were living in the same apartment still.
• 37:37
  And after about two months or three months, I was like, we had like an incident.
• 37:43
  I was like, I have to I have to get out of here.
• 37:44
  Yeah.
• 37:45
  And so I left and I had to go to my parents' house.
• 37:50
  And I moved back in with, I think, five of my younger siblings were still living in the house.
• 37:54
  I moved back in with them and with my now one-year-old daughter.
• 37:58
  And after, like, I gave myself grace, like, I was just like,
• 38:03
  emotionally, like, I just need to be OK.
• 38:05
  I need to be there for her.
• 38:06
  And my family was just like, stay forever.
• 38:09
  Even when I was pregnant, my dad was like, do you want?
• 38:11
  It's very common in Israel when people are having their first kid, they'll move back in with their families.
• 38:17
  Or even when you're newly married in Israel, if your family has a separate little apartment attached to their house, couples move in with their families.
• 38:27
  It's very common here.
• 38:29
  So even when I was giving birth, my dad was like, do you want to just move in downstairs?
• 38:33
  And, like, I'm very independent.
• 38:34
  I moved to Israel when I was 18 years old alone.
• 38:37
  Like, I actually haven't lived at my parents' house since I was 18.
• 38:41
  I've been on my own this entire time.
• 38:43
  And now here I am, 24, with a one-year-old daughter, no money, having to move in, like, with her parents.
• 38:50
  It was such a, like, blow for me.
• 38:52
  That's a real curveball.
• 38:55
  Yeah.
• 38:55
  And so...
• 38:57
  Anyway, so I'm moving back in with them and like they were just everyone was so happy to have us there.
• 39:03
  Like my family, my parents community who I was already so close with was so welcoming to us.
• 39:10
  And like it was it was just so comfortable.
• 39:14
  I want to just preface this that with you are really lucky.
• 39:18
  Yeah.
• 39:18
  Yeah.
• 39:19
  Oh, I know that.
• 39:20
  You are really lucky because I did have a podcast previously with a Toen and a divorce attorney.
• 39:28
  And...
• 39:30
  The way that a lot of people have their divorce experience is not like this.
• 39:36
  And even though yours was extremely difficult in its own right.
• 39:39
  Yeah.
• 39:40
  To have a support system that can be there for you is such a bracha.
• 39:45
  Yeah.
• 39:45
  That I want to make it abundantly clear that.
• 39:48
  Yeah.
• 39:50
  Charlotte is lucky.
• 39:51
  Yeah, she is.
• 39:53
  Even though what you went through was not lucky and was painful and horrible, there's also a beauty in the fact that you can come home.
• 40:04
  That just like you are there for your daughter, your parents were there for you.
• 40:09
  And that's a really big gift.
• 40:11
  Yeah.
• 40:12
  Baruch Hashem.
• 40:12
  Like, I think about it so often, like not even just my parents, but my grandparents, my great grandparents.
• 40:20
  Like, I'm really so lucky.
• 40:23
  But even when I brought, so like a few months later, when I brought up this idea of moving out and getting my own place,
• 40:30
  everyone, even my sister, who's like married with two kids, now three kids, but at the time had two, she's like, why would you move out?
• 40:37
  Like, just stay at your parents' house.
• 40:38
  My best friend, she's like, why would you live on your own?
• 40:41
  And I was terrified to live on my own.
• 40:44
  Solely just like should an intruder come.
• 40:47
  Like I go to worst case scenario.
• 40:49
  I'm like, I can't, I can protect myself, but like also like, I'm just a little girl.
• 40:54
  I can't protect myself.
• 40:57
  So, like, there was also that, but I basically was like, you know what, I had this, like, just push one day that I was like, I need to get out.
• 41:08
  I need to get out of my parents' house.
• 41:10
  It really came from a place of...
• 41:13
  I don't love being here.
• 41:16
  Like, obviously, I love being with my family.
• 41:19
  But there's part of me that, like, when I would go out to all my friends, also, like, all these olim, everyone's living on their own.
• 41:26
  So to go out with them and everyone has their own apartment, whatever it is, I was just like, I'm a mother now.
• 41:32
  Like, I want to take care of my daughter.
• 41:35
  I want us to have a beautiful life.
• 41:37
  And I want it to come from me.
• 41:38
  That is such a gorgeous lesson.
• 41:42
  So I just had this push.
• 41:43
  I was like, I need to do this for myself.
• 41:46
  And it really came down to, I don't love where I am in my life.
• 41:50
  And how is someone else going to love me if I'm not, because I don't want to rush into a relationship now also out of need.
• 42:01
  So I wanted to take that away and say, like, like now I can say, I don't need a man.
• 42:07
  I want a man.
• 42:07
  Like I want someone to come into my life, but I don't need someone to come rescue me.
• 42:11
  Yeah.
• 42:11
  I think that that's also such a good lesson because we in life, we go through what ifs.
• 42:18
  What if the marriage doesn't work?
• 42:19
  What if I can't find a job?
• 42:20
  What if I this?
• 42:20
  What if I plan?
• 42:21
  You've lived through a lot of the what ifs you have.
• 42:25
  And not only that, you came out the other end and you've created a life that's yours.
• 42:30
  Yeah.
• 42:31
  And now you can go into the next chapter.
• 42:35
  This new Charlotte.
• 42:37
  So tell me what new Charlotte looks for when she's dating.
• 42:40
  Oh my gosh.
• 42:42
  Um, it's really hard.
• 42:44
  Cause now when I date, I'm like very specific about things, whether it's things that I'm like, I know I cannot have this in my relationship, like things that still like scare me a little bit that happened in the past that I'm not necessarily over.
• 43:00
  Um,
• 43:02
  But like things that really just like stuck with me, like the words that were said or the way that I was made to feel.
• 43:08
  I'm like, I need to be so far away from something like that.
• 43:14
  So I'm very like specific that when I come into dating now, because I know what it's like to be married.
• 43:21
  So it's kind of like it's like a funny place to be in.
• 43:24
  Do you think it's harder this time around?
• 43:26
  A little bit.
• 43:28
  One that like I come in with my daughter.
• 43:29
  So dating's.
• 43:31
  It's also been a little more, like a little non-existent, honestly.
• 43:37
  I don't think I've been, I don't think anyone's set me up so far.
• 43:45
  Set the girl up, she's gorgeous, and cute and fun, what is happening?
• 43:51
  Okay, I will link your profile here for all of the inquiring minds who would love a perfect little girl, daughter, and a wonderful, beautiful wife.
• 44:01
  But I do think it comes from a place of like for guys.
• 44:06
  I actually had a guy like we had great chemistry and he was just like, I cannot be a stepfather.
• 44:11
  And I was just like, how do you react to that?
• 44:15
  It really hurt.
• 44:18
  It really hurt.
• 44:21
  But it happened to be like with someone that I was able to like see the bigger picture with him.
• 44:26
  Also, it's easier for me now to like see the bigger picture because I was married.
• 44:31
  I know what it's like to be in a home.
• 44:32
  I'm like, OK, you know what?
• 44:34
  He honestly isn't.
• 44:36
  I feel like this time around, I'm a little delusional about it, but I'm also just manifesting good.
• 44:40
  Yes, girl.
• 44:41
  Do it.
• 44:41
  But like this time around, I'm going to get absolutely everything that like I want.
• 44:47
  So like one little thing that he might not have had.
• 44:49
  I'm like, you know what?
• 44:49
  It's fine.
• 44:50
  Like, you're not my husband anyway.
• 44:51
  Exactly.
• 44:52
  I agree with that.
• 44:54
  But it was hurtful and I was just like, okay, well, I'm not gonna change your mind.
• 44:59
  Or he also made a comment like, well, kids are so, there's a lot of responsibility that comes with it.
• 45:04
  I have a toddler now, so like, you know, if I can handle it financially as a single mom, I'm like, it's really not gonna be a burden on you, whatever.
• 45:13
  But I was hurt and I was just like, I'm not gonna try and convince anyone that like, they should be with me that they wanna take this on.
• 45:19
  If you don't want it, you don't want it.
• 45:20
  It's also not good for your daughter if the person you are with is only in it for you.
• 45:26
  Oh, 100%.
• 45:27
  You're a package deal and the best deal possible.
• 45:29
  So I think you're right with having this delusional mindset because let me tell you something.
• 45:36
  It's only delusional when other people say it.
• 45:39
  That's your reality.
• 45:41
  That's your reality.
• 45:42
  This is what I want for my life.
• 45:44
  And by the way, it will come.
• 45:46
  It will come.
• 45:49
  Are dating apps amazing or horrible?
• 45:51
  So I've only been on Hinge and I actually haven't gone on a single date from it.
• 45:56
  Okay.
• 45:57
  But I sometimes just use it like for fun to just like write like funny things like I'll like message guys just to be like funny like sometimes like get it out whatever.
• 46:09
  But yeah, like, right when I did get divorced, I was just like, I just need to get back out there.
• 46:17
  Like, I had met a guy literally on the street of Tel Aviv.
• 46:20
  He just came over, like, we started chatting, and he's like, so can I get your Instagram?
• 46:23
  I'm like, okay.
• 46:24
  And we ended up going on a date, and I knew, like, he wasn't religious.
• 46:27
  I was like, okay, like, this is not going anywhere, but like, this is exactly what I need to like get myself back out there.
• 46:33
  You needed a cleanse, a palate cleanse.
• 46:35
  Right, just something to also like, no, like,
• 46:39
  what to say, what not to say.
• 46:41
  Like, I was like a little nervous also, like how much do I talk about my daughter?
• 46:44
  How much do I not talk about her?
• 46:47
  So there's a skill set in dating.
• 46:48
  I do a lot of dating coaching and it's really an interesting dynamic because I actually think with the dating apps and social media and all of these things, we've lost how to connect in person and what that looks like.
• 47:05
  So I think it's good what you did.
• 47:08
  This idea of, you know what, this is this might not be my husband, but this could be somebody that I test the waters with.
• 47:15
  that I enjoy going to dinner with or I want to spend some time with and see like, do I feel comfortable in this setting?
• 47:24
  Do I not feel comfortable?
• 47:25
  You're getting to relearn yourself in a completely new environment.
• 47:31
  It's such a beautiful thing.
• 47:32
  Yeah.
• 47:33
  Like, I'm really just taking it, like, one step at a time.
• 47:36
  I actually recently just went out with someone, and he was like, listen, like, it just can't work between us, like, long term, but I'd still love to—he happens to live near me, like, in the north.
• 47:47
  There's really no one our age around.
• 47:49
  So he was like, but I'd love to still just like hang out with you and like get to know you, be friends.
• 47:53
  I was like, perfect.
• 47:54
  And so like now it's so nice.
• 47:55
  I have someone once in a while will go grab drinks and like I have this friend and it does feel like I'm going out on a date when I go out with him, even though like there's nothing romantic between us.
• 48:05
  But I'm really trying to enjoy it.
• 48:08
  I always had this good instinct, though, of like.
• 48:12
  there's something here there's something not so like after a first date i do think there is something in like always going on a second date but after a first date like i can tell you if someone's my husband or not wow or like i could even say like i know that like this could go to like the third date or this could go to the fifth date but like that's probably gonna be it it
• 48:34
  Are you looking for someone to build a life with or someone who will build their life around the life you've created already?
• 48:43
  I want someone to build a life with.
• 48:47
  I definitely want someone to build a life with.
• 48:49
  Like, obviously, I kind of know where like the bigger things.
• 48:53
  I have somewhat of an idea of what I want.
• 48:58
  Really, bottom line, like most important thing for me is.
• 49:02
  Shomer Shabbat, Shomer Kashrut, like those are two things my whole life, like I've just felt very connected to.
• 49:09
  Like even when I was in the army or even when like I'm going through my journey with Hashem where, you know, I might be upset with him, like certain mitzvot I don't connect with.
• 49:17
  Those are two things that I've always been like.
• 49:21
  very harsh on myself, not like necessarily on myself, but I've just always been connected with them.
• 49:25
  And even when like going out in Israel, it's so easy.
• 49:28
  Like you could just go to any ice cream store.
• 49:30
  So like for me, one thing I just try and say is like, you know what, if it doesn't have a tuda, like it's not for me.
• 49:37
  Um, so like those are two things I'm very like, I would love someone to like also be like on that same page.
• 49:44
  Um, I'm like
• 49:46
  But aside from that, and, like, there are certain things with, like, I do want to be a stay-at-home mom and, like, take care of my kids until, like, as a newborn and especially, like, as toddlers, I want to keep them home as long as possible.
• 50:00
  There are certain ways that, like, maybe certain vibes that I, like, want my home to have.
• 50:06
  Yeah.
• 50:07
  Like, the energy that's brought into my home.
• 50:10
  But I want to build a life with someone, like other things.
• 50:13
  Yeah.
• 50:14
  Danielle's obviously looking at you as her role model and mother.
• 50:20
  What is something you want to give over to her so that she can either avoid hardships, which are impossible to avoid completely, but something that you can give to her to maybe make life a little easier?
• 50:40
  So one thing that's very important to me that, like, I really appreciate my parents did for me was they really gave me, like, my independence.
• 50:50
  And, like, they let me go and do and...
• 50:55
  I failed along the way at certain different things, and that, like, they were always there for me.
• 51:00
  So, like, even just, like, with, like, D2D tasks, I always try and, like, give her, like, tasks that she can do to, like, help build that independence.
• 51:10
  But I always want her, like, surrounded by love.
• 51:12
  So, like, Baruch Hashem, I have my family now who's, like, there, and, like, we're always with them.
• 51:20
  Like she might not have siblings now, but she definitely like looks to my siblings.
• 51:24
  Like their relationship is basically like they're just siblings too.
• 51:30
  But I also really, I never want my like, what I went through, like this trauma that I went through.
• 51:37
  I'm working really hard now, like in therapy to like, so that I can overcome it for myself, but also so that one day when she does come home with a boy, I don't wanna like,
• 51:49
  just start interrogating her.
• 51:50
  Okay, so what's he like?
• 51:51
  What's his family like?
• 51:52
  I don't want to put that on her.
• 51:54
  But I also do want to make sure that she...
• 51:57
  That she'll have the tools she needs should she ever.
• 52:01
  I want her to always know that whatever it is, she can always come.
• 52:06
  She can always come to me, like whether it's just to talk to me, if it's something that, okay, maybe like a girl your age shouldn't be doing, whatever it is, like I will always be there, whatever she wants to tell me.
• 52:19
  And I'll always be there to come and pick her up too when she needs.
• 52:22
  I love that.
• 52:24
  What is something you are most proud of yourself?
• 52:28
  I think my attitude.
• 52:29
  I love that.
• 52:32
  My attitude and also just like where I've gotten to with like how much like I love myself now.
• 52:40
  What's one thing that somebody listening can take away from this conversation that you want them to hold close to them?
• 52:50
  It would definitely be that there are so many things in life that we have no control over.
• 52:59
  We don't get to choose it, but we do get to choose how we respond to it.
• 53:04
  We get to choose how it's going to affect our day.
• 53:08
  And that's in our control.
• 53:13
  That's up to us.
• 53:15
  And...
• 53:16
  It will make the situation just so much better for you if you just choose to be positive about it and choose to... As long as you have a positive outlook, like, don't get me wrong, I cry a lot.
• 53:34
  I cry a lot, I'm upset a lot, but at the end of the day, I just choose to see the beauty in things, and that changes everything.
• 53:44
  I will say that you are really the sweetest, most beautiful person.
• 53:50
  Thank you.
• 53:51
  And I do think that you will inspire your daughter to be strong and happy.
• 53:57
  And if you continue with that positive attitude...
• 54:01
  Literally, the world is your oyster.
• 54:03
  I think that we can prepare for things, or at least we think we can prepare for things.
• 54:09
  But in reality, we have to enjoy the ride because we never know what's coming next.
• 54:16
  And life will throw us curveballs.
• 54:19
  Life will be challenging.
• 54:21
  But when you have that outlook that at the end of the day is for the good.
• 54:27
  Nothing can stop you.
• 54:29
  So thank you for giving me your time and sharing your story.
• 54:33
  And let me tell you, I hope that the next time we see each other, it's for a simcha.
• 54:40
  Amen.
• 54:41
  And for only good things.
• 54:42
  Thank you for being here.
• 54:44
  I really appreciate it.