Latest / Foul Territory / Pete Rose’s lawyer on reinstatement journey & defending the HOF case

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Pete Rose’s lawyer on reinstatement journey & defending the HOF case · Foul Territory

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Whatever your political affiliation is, it never hurts, whatever your
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: cause and life, to have the President support it.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: We're looking forward to this. Jeffrey Lankov joining us right now,
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Great Layd representing Pete Rose as his attorney and has
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: been very, very involved in this entire process with the
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: news that we find out Pete has been reinstated and
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: is now eligible to be a Hall of Famer as well. Jeffrey,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for the time. I know it's
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: been a huge week. I'm going to open up the
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: floor here to start and just tell me how the
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: last forty eight hours have been for you. And did
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: that include some important phone calls?
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's the getting the decision and the aftermath
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: has been tumultuous. Great, but hecktic all that, and then
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: giving the news to the family, and then you know,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: flying last night, attending the event last night in Cincinnati,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: and flying back this morning.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: It's been a pretty crazy forty eight hours.
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  Speaker 4: All right. I want to start at the beginning. How
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: did this all start?
• 1:19
  Speaker 5: How did you get involved with the Pete Rose case,
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  Speaker 5: and how did this all start to where now he's
• 1:25
  Speaker 5: reinstated with a chance to go into.
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: The Hall of fame.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's a good question.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: You know. I grew up in Montreal. I was a
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: big Pete Rose fan, but I had no intention of
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: ever sort of positioning him for reinstatement. But I got
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: to know him, and I produced a show on Fox
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: called Whip Around where Pete was the central figure. It
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: ended up winning the Emmy. I got to know Pete.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I got to know him bying his graphicsterior and started
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: to really get to know him as a person. I
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: did a book deal with him and then started and
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: then really in twenty fifteen, he wanted me to join
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  Speaker 1: a legal team that he had some other lawyers of
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  Speaker 1: her he knew, and I didn't like their approach to MLB,
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  Speaker 1: so I didn't participate in that petition for reinstatement. And
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: then because that went awry, I sort of took it
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: amongst myself and said, you know, someone's going to have
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: to do it right. And it took me nine ten
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: years to do it right.
• 2:27
  Speaker 6: How would you have done it differently to start to
• 2:30
  Speaker 6: hopefully have gotten this happened before Pete passed away.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question. I've thought about that. You know,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I wasn't in the room. When Pete in twenty fifteen
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: met with Manfred and his crew. You know, Commissioner Manford
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  Speaker 1: is very sophisticated a lawyer, you have to come into
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  Speaker 1: those meetings completely candid, understanding and be sort of remorseful
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  Speaker 1: of what you've done in the past. I don't know
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  Speaker 1: if Pete did that effectively or if that was done,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: but he had an opportunity there, and because he lost
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: that opportunity, those opportunities don't come easily. With the missteps
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: that Pete did along the way post twenty fifteen, there
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: was a lot of cleaning up that I had to do,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of shaping the narrative, a lot of understanding
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: what Giamatti intended, and then having productive, credible, honest conversations
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: with MLB.
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: Jeffrey. I was on whip Round.
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: You never got me a Joe, But I'm just need aja.
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  Speaker 3: You didn't need reinstatements, not yet, not yet.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's still life. It is still young. It's still young.
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  Speaker 5: If some people would say that that I have so
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: it's fine, it's fine. Well, when you met with Manfred
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  Speaker 5: this last time, you in Fawn, Pete's daughter, how does
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: that conversation go, because there's been a lot of pressure
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: politically and for people all over the world saying like
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: Pete needs to get back in How does that conversation
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: go with Manford because you mentioned he's a lawyer, but
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: Pete wasn't there to defend himself anymore. So it's basically
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  Speaker 5: you and his daughter in there with Manfred saying here's
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  Speaker 5: our case. Do you I don't even know how to
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  Speaker 5: start them.
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  Speaker 3: Right? Right?
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  Speaker 1: Well, nor do I really so, because it's a unique
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: situation for anyone. But let me back up, because you
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: raise an excellent question, and I'll give you a foundation
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: understanding what happened. So for years before leading up to
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  Speaker 1: the reunion event in Philadelphia, in what was a twenty
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  Speaker 1: twenty one I think now twenty yeah, twenty twenty, twenty
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  Speaker 1: twenty one, I was positioning Pete for a new narrative
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  Speaker 1: that he wants this and he wants to get back
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  Speaker 1: into good graces. And there were missteps by Pete public
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  Speaker 1: where he makes comments that really don't position him well
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  Speaker 1: for reinstatement. Because at the end of the day, Manford
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  Speaker 1: has not just Pete to worry about, but has a
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: game to worry about, has precedent, future Hall of Famers
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  Speaker 1: President Hall of Famers a lot of issues on his table,
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  Speaker 1: and that's I'm not saying that because I'm supporting Manford.
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  Speaker 1: I'm telling you as a fact. So when we finally
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: sort of aligned on let's get a meeting on this,
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  Speaker 1: I was going to go to the meeting alone, and
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  Speaker 1: then it occurred to me to your point that you
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: know what's missing here is maybe a voice the family voice,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Fawn's voice on behalf of the family, on behalf of
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  Speaker 1: the kids. And I brought that in and Fawn was
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: it wasn't prepared, but she spoke openly and honestly about
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: what this meant or family and how they've sort of
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: suffered through Pete's transgression or suspension. And I think that resonated.
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  Speaker 1: The human element has to resonate with anyone. If you
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  Speaker 1: met Fawn, she's an extremely likable, lovable person, and I
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  Speaker 1: think that resonated with Manford, who who was really open
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: to hear the story.
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• 7:04
  Speaker 6: Did you talk about this with Pete before he passed away? Like,
• 7:07
  Speaker 6: what would his reaction have been when this news came
• 7:11
  Speaker 6: out had he been still alive?
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  Speaker 3: You know, everyone people have it wrong.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: People think that he I mean, he did publicly bristle
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: at the Hall of fame and scoffed at it. But
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: that was a defense mechanism because he had been hurt
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: for so long, denial and sort of misapproaches, and you know,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: the feeling that maybe Major League Baseball wasn't acting quick enough.
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  Speaker 3: But all that is said, he would have been overjoyed.
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  Speaker 1: He'd be clicking his heels, he would have been slapping
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: people in the back, he'd be telling everybody if he
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: would have seen the outpouring Look, I've been to many
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: sporting events. I'll tell you I've never seen sort of
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: the rock star status last night had in Cincinnati. How
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: they did it well, but more importantly, the emotional feeling
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: of the Cincinnati you know, D's nation.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: So he would be overjoyed.
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  Speaker 5: By the way the White Sox smacked him last night,
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: just saying sorry, sorry I smacked him. I'm sorry, I'm
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: sorry to ruin the night. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I
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  Speaker 5: just couldn't know was rock stars the White Sox. What
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  Speaker 5: do you do as as a lawyer, you know, agent,
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  Speaker 5: when your client kept shooting himself in the foot with
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  Speaker 5: some of the things he was saying and doing, did
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  Speaker 5: you ever just want to grab Pete and say dude,
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  Speaker 5: just stop talking, stop doing things to not help your cause.
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  Speaker 3: AG. I think you were in many rooms with me.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: It sounds like you were on a flight camera or something.
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  Speaker 4: In one of those balls behind you.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I did it.
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  Speaker 1: I did it physically and in person many times. I
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: it's very difficult. You know, what made Pete great was
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: his head strong unique I'm going to like put everything
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: on the field. But once you get to know a
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  Speaker 1: goat like that, you realize that they became who they
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: are and and and they are outliers different than any
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: human beings on earth because they have a singular different
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: approach to life. And Peach's approach was you know, he
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: if someone triggered him, he fought back. You know, he
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: grew up on the road, you know, on sort of
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  Speaker 1: the poorer side of Cincinnati, and he had to struggle
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  Speaker 1: a lot. So to him, I don't think he ever
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  Speaker 1: escaped him being the blue collar guy that when you're
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  Speaker 1: pushed you fight back. The one thing Pete wasn't really
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  Speaker 1: good at, which a lot of folks are, he wasn't
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: good at being political.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah that's fair, right, I understand, understand, I understand, Yeah, right,
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  Speaker 2: understanders definitely matter. Okay, so so this part's important for me.
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  Speaker 2: Time stand here, Jeffrey. So in twenty twenty two, after
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: receiving a letter from Pete asking for forgiveness, Rob Manford said, quote,
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  Speaker 2: I believe that when you bet on baseball, from MLB's perspective,
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  Speaker 2: you belong on the permanently ineligible list in my Then obviously,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: fast forward and he thinks that determination must be made
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: on what permanently ineligible means. You know, obviously we're looking
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: at this like why now? So let's also remember a
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: few weeks ago Manfred talks to President Trump. Also, MLB
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: being in good graces with the government never hurts anti
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: trust exemption, basically illegal monopoly, among other things. Too, right,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: you want to be friends with your local officials when
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: you're asking for money for a ballpark, et cetera.
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  Speaker 3: How much do you think that factored into the decision?
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  Speaker 3: Just now? It's let me tell you a couple of things.
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  Speaker 1: First, whether you are whatever your political affiliation is, it
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  Speaker 1: never hurts, whatever your cause in life, to have the
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: president support it. I would be foolish not to invite
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  Speaker 1: or accept support from any fan official, and particularly the president.
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  Speaker 1: President Trump was a fan of Roses. He was a
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  Speaker 1: big baseball fan growing up, and he was a fan
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  Speaker 1: of Petz before he became president, both first term and
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: second term. So the public, I definitely think that having
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  Speaker 1: the president out there talking about the issue helps accentuate
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: the issue. But let's be clear, the petition preceded anything
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  Speaker 1: Potus did, and Manfred had been open and we had
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  Speaker 1: been discussing this matter for years. Manfred had allowed Pete
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: to come in long before any president whoever was in
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  Speaker 1: office in twenty fifteen to be able to come in
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: and say, look, present your case. So I think Manfred
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  Speaker 1: under stood at the end of the day that it
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: was never intended that the permanently ineligible list meant until
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the end of the world, until end of time. It
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: meant for a specific, permanent, permanent time, excuse me in
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: permanent time, a specific time, and that the bigger issue
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: for Major League Baseball and Manfred what would be the
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  Speaker 1: impact on the game. Certainly, as Pete age, there was
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  Speaker 1: no further impact. He wasn't going to be a player.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: He didn't want to coach. What Pete really wanted to
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: do was be a minor league coach. But he would
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  Speaker 1: have no more impact, So there was a clear line
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  Speaker 1: of legitimate authority to be able to argue that the
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  Speaker 1: ineligibility ends upon your lifetime.
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  Speaker 5: Okay, that's fair, that's fair. I have two questions for you.
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  Speaker 5: First of all, what do you say to people like
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  Speaker 5: myself that don't think Pete should ever get into the
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: whole of thing. That's my opinion, I know, and you
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: have a different opinion, and I'm fine, But like for
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  Speaker 5: me as a former player, he broke the cardinal rule
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  Speaker 5: and that's it, right, and I don't think and I
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  Speaker 5: know he still has to get in. But what do
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  Speaker 5: you say to people like me that think he should
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: never get in.
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  Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I respect your opinion. You're allowed
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  Speaker 1: your opinion. Your opinion matters actually because you gave it
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: all in the field you played, and you're from a
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: perspective that's different than I you know who played you know,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: little league ball.
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  Speaker 3: But let me answer your question directly.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: While I respect your opinion, I think that the hall
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: is a hall of really what you brought to the field.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: It's not ultimately a hall of moral turpitude, ethics.
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  Speaker 3: And people can argue that it is.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: But if you go that route to analyzing the human
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: frailties of each admission, of each potential admit. He then
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: you got a real problem. Then you may only have
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: five six guys in the hall because everyone made mistakes,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: everyone has good and bad that they've done. And if
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: you go through the Hall of Fame's roster, those plaques
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: and you walk through that really special room, there's a
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: lot of folks that have some baggage. And I think
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: that you should have a hall that represents the game.
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  Speaker 1: And when you're talking aj about what someone brought to
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the game, I think as a player you would agree,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: though certainly, that what Pepe brought to the game, what
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: he physically brought to the game, both in his accomplishments,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: achievements and the mere passion and will, is completely Hall
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: of Fame worthy. But I respect your argument, and I
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: understand the argument. I just think that it's a hall
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: that if you're going to tell the story of the game,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: you got to include him. And I think there you
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: and I think you got to consider what to do
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: with Clemmens, Bonds and the rest of the folks. Because
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: the issue sitting out there, let's end it one way
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: or the other.
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: O I agree that nobody's perfect and everyone there's a
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: lot of Trust me, there's a lot of dudes in
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: there that did a lot of things that are not
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: legal and all that.
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: I get it. It's fine. I just wanted your perspective.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: We're not going to get it.
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: We don't have to get into a discussion on it now.
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: The next thing is twenty twenty seven is when Pete's
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: eligible for the Hall of Fame.
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: The next vote.
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: What does the mood change for everybody? Everyone's excited, Oh, Pete, Pete, Pete.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: What happens if he doesn't get into twenty seven? Does
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: that change anything in your opinion on his chances or
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: how people feel about this subject?
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: I think I think the newer, the fresher the issue is,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: the more people are going to pay attention to.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: I think if he goes first.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Round or whatever ends up being decided, sorry as to
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: the voting, then I think that's going to be that
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: could Hamper's chances.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: But I'm not really looking that far ahead.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I'm really looking at the fact that how do you
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: make the argument now that he is appropriate and should
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: be in there.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm focused on.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: My last one here for you, Jeffrey, is you know
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: any conversations that you had besides obviously with the commissioner
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: that have stood out throughout this entire journey.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: A lot of folks, and I'll sum up rather quickly
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: because we're living on time, I bet, but I'll tell
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: you that he has always been gracious. There's a guy
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: in that office named Pat Courtney who's been incredible, Dan Halem,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I haven't had one moment where they haven't been willing
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: to listen. It's not like I say that, it's not
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: like they've given me everything I wanted. I've had to
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: go through nine years of it. But they've been professional
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: and willing to listen to me at all times.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Jeffrey, really appreciate the insight and the time, and note
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: it's a busy time. So this is the Baseball Show,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: right TV pod, the whole deal that you know a
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: lot of people look to for these kind of real conversations.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: So thank you for joining us.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Really appreciate it, and at least for now, say I mean,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I think it's it's worthy congratulations on the accomplishment here
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: to actually get this across, because I know it was
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: a difficult case.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I appreciate guys, you guys, have a great show. I'll
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: be getting him in despite aj but we'll talk again.
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: It's okay.
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: Hey, listen, I respect you, I respect a job you did.
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: And listen, I respect Pete as a player. Some of
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: the you know, the things he did after that it
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: is not my thing. But as a player, Pete was
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: one of the greatest.
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: So yeah, you know what. Good luck to him in
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: the Hall of Fame.
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: But you know, and I appreciate you coming on and
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: discussing it because it's a big it is a big
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: news story and you were in the heart of it.
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: And I always like to hear the inside stuff of
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: how things go down because that's what's to me, that's
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: what the intriguing and the important part is is how
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: do we get from A to B. Don't tell me
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: A or B, tell me how we got there. And
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: to hear you what you said, it was awesome.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Thank you, guys, be good, Thank you you too. Appreciate you. Jeffreed.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Bye bye, guys, Bye bye.