Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #015-"Shot in the head with a crossbow"

Transcript

#015-"Shot in the head with a crossbow" · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: I shot from the help from my reach out to have my head like everyone.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're back today.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: We've got uh a couple of guests on it's uh Clint McNair and Alaro.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, guys.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Before we get started today, hit subscribe.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Here, let's get it somewhere.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hit subscribe, follow what we're doing, uh, give us some feedback on what you got.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Today we've got field rep from Southeast Texas Golden Triangle, the Leighton Ganary common spelling.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna just go ahead and throw it out there.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is probably gonna be one of the very few episodes that we probably need uh parental uh you know what is it, parental discretion.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, parental discretion uh on the episodes before we get any further, just throwing it out there.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Our our our uh LSU big fan field rep.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: For you guys Googling him right now, Leighton Ganary is common spelling uh why you're Googling him.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we've got Tom Lee on, uh deputy from Harden County's got a cool story, a crazy story.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we'll talk a little bit about mental health officers and what they do and his role and what's going on and TMPA's response to critical incidents and uh what we got.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for coming on, guys.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, sir.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep, yep, yep.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, how how long uh well let's just kind of like we usually do, just dive off to uh where'd you grow up and and how'd you got in law enforcement.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know you and I discussed that earlier uh this morning, but it's kind of an interesting deal of your previous employer.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Who is Tom?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I started out in at the University of Texas Dallas.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh were you born there, or that's where you started your police career?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: Where were you born?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: Born in Garland.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: So G Town.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: There we go.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, you get to high school retired Garland cop here at Garland Christian Academy.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: So we didn't get many calls there.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, private school guy.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I I went off to college.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh at college, I got in the explorer program with the campus police department.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: And as I was doing that, I was like, man, law enforcement seems like a cool thing to do.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I ended up being a dispatcher for UT Dallas for a couple years, put myself through on a police academy, then ET Dallas had an opening and hired me as an officer, made me come back to the police academy.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: So here in Austin, uh went to the academy.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: Then in two December 2005, I was a police officer with E.T.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Dallas.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you so University of Texas, just for the the listeners, watchers, lawyers, and everybody that's that's uh viewing on this on this podcast, and I didn't know this, all the university, how many UT campuses are there across the state?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: Fourteen around Portland.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got like UT Galveston, UT Austin, obviously, UT Brownsville, El Paso.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a cop in any of those cities, they send you back to Austin.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is essentially their headquarters.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I did I did not know that.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: You're under the system police department, which is here at Austin.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then they commission you out and they have like mutual aid agreements between each campus, like during Ike, when Ike happened in Galveston, there was several of us that went from UT Dallas down to uh UTMB to help them during Ike.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So UT Systems runs their own academy in Austin.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Did you you live down here during that, or how does that work?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they put us up in a hotel down crazy five and two ninety down there.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty cool though.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: I did not know that.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't either.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: How long did you spend it in the UT Systems police?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: I stayed there until 2009.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then from there I reserved with the tiny police department, white right.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh then one of my friends became the chief of police at Lamar University down in Beaumont.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I went to work full-time at Lamar University in 2012.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then three years later, I got on with the sheriff's office.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I've been with the sheriff's office since.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, nice.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Where where's the seat for Harden County?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: What seat is that?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Koontz.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Coontz.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's not far from in relation to where you live at, it's not that far from Nah, within an hour.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Did you uh campus policing and and as as far as it relates to working at a sheriff's office, can you kind of give us an overview of uh not the reality difference, but just the difference in the in the style of police work?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: So campus policing, a lot of drugs, alcohol, thefts, criminal mischief, uh, criminal trespass, just a lot, a lot of misdemeanor stuff.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh man, I went to the sheriff's office and it was like felony, felony, felony, felony, felony, felony.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it's I was like, this is a big, huge change from what it was at the campus.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: I can still do, like I I did tons of DWIs.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: I started at E.T.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: Dallas doing DWIs, and I I still could do those at the county, but man, shootings and stabbings and and whatnot at at the county were astronomical in comparison to what it was like at the college.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So the main reason you're on today is is a pretty unique uh incident.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: When I heard about it, uh I it was it wasn't a joke, but I mean it's just a weird nobody I've never heard of anybody going through what you uh went through that day.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Can you kind of give us an overview of how the call started, kind of a background uh of the individual and how you got dispatched to the call and and so forth?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: So the guy's dad actually called me like three weeks earlier, and I was actually at a hostage negotiation school.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it was during one of our breaks, and I answered the phone.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, man, I can't I can't come out now, but if it's an emergency, call 911.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: You had you had had a personal relationship or was it a build-up rapport with the family or I've never met them before.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: It was just uh I I've got a company phone.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you were in your you're already in your role as mental health officer at that time.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I started that in March of 2019.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: This was like early June of 2019.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how they got connected to you trying to get a hold of the mental health officer.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: And they said that their son was having an issue.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I was I advised them to call 911 that I I couldn't respond at the time because I was in a training.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then three weeks later, I get a phone call from the deck dad saying, Hey, my son, he was came yes or last night and tried to tell us that the uh cell phone tower that's out back of our property was shooting off all these beams that were killing people, and the cartel was using it and that he needed to borrow my cell phone could it and plug in some code to stop the cartel from killing people.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: And they didn't let him have the cell phone, told him to get out to go back to his place, and he woke up that morning and all the hay in his field had been set on fire.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Clearly somebody mental crisis.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I responded out there.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: Me and my mental health pro partner uh that works for the local mental health authority.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: We went out there.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: He was a civilian, I guess.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, civilian.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh she she rides with me.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh went out there, started talking to the dad, and the mom was there, and the dad and the mom were divorced, but she was there too, and she was acting real strange, talking about how she was kind of scared of her son.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, what what's going on?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I I went to call for a backup unit, and about that time they were putting out another call over an overdose in Sour Lake.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, we don't have that many people on the street.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be a while before I could get a backup unit, so I'll just handle this myself.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's kind of a a routine thing.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm not really doing anything, just gonna go talk to them and see if I can get him some help.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: And the dad was like, hey, he lives just one driveway down from me.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'll meet you over there and follow the mom.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I I thought he was gonna come like behind us.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I get there and go put my vest on because mom's acting a little hinky.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, okay, I'll because we normally don't wear vests.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: We we kind of dress like I'm dressed right now, just trying to be cool with people.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Non-confrontational, I guess, for people in a crisis, I guess.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: Don't want to take and get the whole uh persona that I'm uniform presence.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a cop, I'm here to arrest you, any of that.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, but I do carry a vest in my car.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I put my vest on, and by the time I did that, man, dad's already up there at the residence and and walking down the trail, kind of hurrying me up.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, okay, and went up there.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: Dad like knocks on the door.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, normally I do that, but you've already started up.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, continuing the son starts just telling his dad, hey, go away.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to see you.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna call the sheriff's office if you don't go away.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: And about after dad tried two or three times, I was like, here, let me knock on the door.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so I knocked, introduced myself as uh one of the sheriff's deputies, since he already said he was gonna call us.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: And as soon as I did that, he flipped out like screaming at the top of his lungs, just whatever, go away, you're trespassing.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, dude, I just want to talk to you, just want to see what's going on.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden he stops screaming and you hear some rustling, and I was like, what the heck is that?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: And he goes, Hey, you want me to come out?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, man, I I just want to talk to you.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to see what's going on.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, You sure you ready for me to come out?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, crap, what what does that mean?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, dude, I just want to talk to you.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, okay.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: And here he kicks the door open.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: Now it's a little conic trailer that he was living in and the door swung outward.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, in law enforcement, you don't stand in front of the door.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: Thank God we weren't.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, because when that door came open, I kind of peeked my head around the corner and there he was standing with a crossbow.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, shh, crap.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I took off running down the side of the building trying to draw my gun.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: And about that time I I looked back and like raised my arm, and I heard and then felt like a sunburn on my arm and on my face.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, what the heck?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, this is going through my mind and it seems like an eternity, but it it was that fast.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Because I mean, I shot from the hip at him because I I I realized pretty much right away that burning's gotta be and that sound was it releasing the bolt.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so I shot from the hip and I reached up and grabbed my head, and I had blood everywhere.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: And then I took off running at after him and saw him running towards an open field, but there's like a grove of trees on the two sides.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So so at this point, your hit, so I mean, grazed hit, struck, you know that you've been injured in some way uh from a crossbow.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a guy that's got the crossbow in hand, and you're giving him chase into an open field that's within the same property of his.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so him and his dad, I guess his dad's house is over here.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: I really don't have a clue.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but his connex trailer's here, and then there's a bunch of empty field with the hay bells that are all on fire, and like two sections of trees that are right there.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just mayhem.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and he he's running to it, and all I can think is, man, he's gonna go behind those trees and re-uh put another bolt in that crossbow and and start shooting us again.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And for our listeners and viewers, uh a bolt is essentially probably what a lot of people would think an arrow and a crossbow is called a bolt.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: But for viewers, it's it's an arrow essentially, but it's at real terms a bolt.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's exactly right.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: So he starts running that way, and like I'm I go to draw up on him, and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he starts pulling a machete.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, man, that that just confirms that he's gonna continue acts of violence, violence towards me, all his family's there, my co-worker who's a civilian, non-armed, she's there.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, man, I've I've got to do something to stop this now.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I ended up putting one in his and that that stopped the threat there.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he I was had a Colt 45, or actually is a Kimber, but 45 1911, and he dropped like a sack of potatoes.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: What distance?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: What distance were you guys?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not really sure.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm think they told me at trial that it was 37 yards.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a hell of a shot.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: After being shot with a crossbow, 37 yards with a 45 is a it's a hell of a shot.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: But but I'm not really sure on that, but it it was a pretty good little distance.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: Sure it wasn't 137 yards?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't 137.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Layton's version would be 100, 237 yards.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Offhand.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Shooting it sideways.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you so you you you get shot, or excuse me, you you you go ahead and and take the end of threat.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh kind of walk walk us through at that point what all happens after that, and uh at what point do you realize how how injured you are.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: So after he drops, his mom came up to me.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: And she didn't run out to him, she ran up to me.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: She and she goes, Hey, I'm a ex-paramedic.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: Let me let me see what's going on.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: And right here on my head, there's a a scar about that long.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: And she was like, Hey, it's just the graze.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: It it doesn't look bad.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: Put this on over to help with the bleeding.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Okay, you go attend to your son.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, because that's far superior medal medical knowledge than I have.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that speaks volumes of I guess her character to come to you before her own son, trying to be sure you were safe and and to check on you first.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I that's what I'd I'd assume.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I can't believe that she came to me and and not her son that I just shot.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: Was your was your arm injured at all?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: I had a big bruise, but that's that's all.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I've got a big tattoo there, so it was hard to see the bruise, and and I don't even think there's any photographs of the Maybe because your bicep was so strong that it bounced off.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like steel.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the the crazy thing about it is is after it was over with, uh, my dad lives out in that area, and we were talking, and it's my dad's neighbor's nephew, is who it was that he was dealing dealing with.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: And uh good family.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Ranchers, you know, cattle guys, stuff like that.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: And they had some land out there, and I think they were letting the son live in live in a connects building that he made into his own apartment or something.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta do what you gotta do?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Suspect lived?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: The suspect lived, it like punctured his right lung.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he was air flighted to the same hospital I went to.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: And uh three days later he was in the Harden County jail.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Been sentenced since been to trial.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um you mentioned trial, has he been sentenced?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: Went went to trial in 2021 and was sentenced for 60 years.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: Good.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: After I offered him a plea deal uh of 30 years, and he didn't want to accept that, so he took it to trial and it took him 15 minutes to say guilty and sentence him to 60 years.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want 30, will you try 60?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want 60?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Just just to let y'all know, Harden County is not the place to mess up in.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just tell you that right now.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh when I started out, my police career was in Harden County, had an agency in Harden County, and they don't play around.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you're gonna get some time.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that at Groves?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Sire Lake.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Sower Lake.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's right.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: I started out at Sire Lake.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they Harden County's legit, man.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's good though.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's to be tough on crime, is is is what we kind of like, and I think that's it's volumes, it speaks volumes for them to do that to that guy.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: So had you ever been involved in a critical incident before?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: The only time that I I I had a death in custody uh previously, and uh it was a guy that was overdosed on methamphetamine, and it was like by the time he died, it because the county if you go to the far end of the county to get to the hospital in Beaumont, you're looking at an hour and a half, two hour drive.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so by the time that we got to the call, because the call came out about two o'clock in the morning, uh got there, dealt with that, got the ambulance there, got him transported.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: He died on a meth overdose as we pulled up to the hospital.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: And of course they they said it was a in-custody death.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: So therefore, I had to call and use TMPA at that point in time.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: So as far as the shooting, this is the first shooting you've been involved in.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: What was it like afterwards going home, trying to decompress, realizing you uh uh getting shot with a crossbow is not that's not a walk in the park deal.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's freaking crazy.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: What was it like mentally, emotionally going home to the house and dealing with having to shoot somebody, getting shot with a crossbow?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us what that looked like for Tom.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: So the day of wasn't too bad.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I went went to the hospital.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Buddy, the other field rep, was at the hospital.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: Shout out Buddy Rector.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: The Jasper Jackal.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: The Jasper Jackal.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: So he met me at the hospital.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Kegel came and met me at the hospital, talked to me a little bit.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh then one of the Rangers came in and tried to talk to me, and Kegel shut him down real fast.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: Said, no, we're not talking here.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh then I so my my vehicle was left at the scene, and I have a take-home vehicle.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, what the heck am I gonna do now?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: And my unit is kind of kind of a task force.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so we got Jefferson County, Harden County, Orange County, Beaumont P.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: D, uh Port Arthur P.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: D, uh, Chambers County, all in my unit.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: And the guy that oversees it, he came out and uh Took me home.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: He was like, here, here's here's my gun.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: I know they took yours.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: Here's my gun.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: You can keep it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, man, my keys for my car.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Everything's back in side.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: My life's in my squad car.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: Back in my squad car.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't even know how I'm gonna get into my house.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: Any of the that thing.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so I had to deal with that.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Then I went home.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: Ended up going to a bar.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: Probably not the best choice in the world.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: Not recommended.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh it's what I did.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: I I had a couple drinks uh there.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um then went home.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the sheriff called me that night, asked me how I was doing.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: The next morning the sheriff called and checked on me.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he he told me that uh the news media was able to look at my Facebook profile, even though I hadn't comment made any statements about it, because so many people had come out and said, Hey, sorry that happened, how are you doing?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: They were able the news media was able to figure out who I was, and they were pressing him, you either reveal who I am or we're just gonna do it without you.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: So he called me and said, Hey, the news media is fixing to run your name.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I have to to come out and reveal who you are and whatnot.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I went up there and met with him and we picked a picture out to put on the to give to the news media and whatnot.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: So did you have a support system there?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Did you live by yourself?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Were you married at the time?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: What what did that look like?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I had a roommate at the time, and he he was the assistant director at the academy.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I had him, but all my family's up in Dallas.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: So really didn't have much besides the sheriff's office and the friends that I'd made.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: They're in the southeast Texas area.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's but let's go back to the day of the event, uh, and really the response not just from the field reps, from you know I think you and Leighton maybe have met before this incident, uh, but Kegel's response and kind of what that looked like for our our viewers and watchers and listeners to kind of walk them through a process of how that would actually look in the in the event that they were placed in the same situation.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: So immediately after I I shot the guy, I was like, okay, I need to make two phone calls.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: One to TMPA, because I I know I have to get legal help.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: Next one, my mom.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Gotta call her, gotta make sure that if she sees this on the news, she knows that I'm okay and all that.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: So those are two phone calls I made.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then what felt like hours of just sitting there waiting for people to show up.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: And uh they showed up.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um my agency was great.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: They were like, hey, come over here.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: We need your weapon.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: We've called we've called the Rangers, they're on their way.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Kegel came out from Houston, I guess.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: And for our listeners, that's TA attorney Greg Kagel.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: I've been a TMPA attorney, one of the best in the country for decades, 20 years, 15 or 20 years.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, over that.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: So he him and and Layton went out to the scene.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't even know Leighton was there.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he's sneaky, man.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because they probably a blessing you didn't.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: They they took me to the hospital, so I I was there, didn't know what was going on out there, but I mean, of course, I knew I knew that my gun was gonna get taken.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: There's there's a lot of talk about how officers that are involved don't know that.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I was like, hey, I know from all my other reading about these that you're gonna here's all my stuff.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's evidence.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, you fired your weapon at the piece of evidence.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: You don't take that, whatever.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good with it.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and then the ambulance looked at me and they're like, hey, you're not really that that bad.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: So the sheriff I could either ride with the ambulance or take a police vehicle out there.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: So one of our captains actually took a took me to the hospital.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing, man, to get shot in the head with a crossbow and riding a police car to the ambulance.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of the of the bolt, the arrow, uh, kind of explained to them and and and everybody and everyone else the the the device and how how it was manufactured by the guy.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: What I've been told, I haven't seen it, but what I was told is he made his own arrows out of temp pegs, the the the foldable, bendable temp pegs, and he'd like JB welded a uh welding rod as the tip of the arrow.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: And wow.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it was probably pretty good because I I was told that it kind of like split as the it couldn't take the force of the bow.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I thought you were gonna say from hitting your head it split.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it could have been that look at that watermelon head.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it it's it's a little hard as a rock, but yeah.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um so Kagel meets you at the at the scene or at the hospital.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um so Kagel went to the to the scene.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: They did the the walk around what happened, and then he talked to the Rangers and and set out a date for me to go talk to the Ranger and do my statement, had that all done at the scene, and then he came to the hospital and met with me at the hospital.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point in time, one of the other rangers walked into the room, and that's when Kegel's like, Nope, he's not talking today.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: I've already talked to the other ranger that was in charge, set up a date, and that's the only time we're doing.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then how many days after the job?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: That was on the Thursday, and I think we met the next Wednesday.
• 28:56
  unknown: Okay.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not really sure, but I think it was Which is I mean, you you investigated police shootings, that's it's kind of sta I mean, that's kind of standard now that you wait.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, those same day statements and interviews and all that are a no-go.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and everybody's kind of you know, REM cycles of sleep are super important for people to have accurate memory recall.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um REM cycles specifically are helpful.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's a sweet spot in there between memory recall and it getting contaminated.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: People start calling you going, well, I heard you shot 10 times, well, I heard you shot 11.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then it starts contaminating your recall.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a sweet spot in there between a couple of days or a handful of days.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to go weeks and months because then you're reading news articles and your recall is contaminated, but that the same day is definitely not the route.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so Kegel had me start my statement uh typing it up like the next day or the right there soon after.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't the day of, it was the next day or whatever.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I started writing my statement and then we met with the Rangers and turned it in.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Had you met Leighton before this incident or maybe in contact or I think we may have met at that shooting in Coontz.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think that was supposed to be.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: That was after.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: That was after there was there were so many things going on in Harden County during that time.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: We came across past, I think one other time, and I'm trying to remember what it was.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: So for people that don't don't I guess understand, each field rep that works for TMPA kind of has a legal call uh day that they that they work, and then in in your area, when a situation happens, you know, it's our duty, depending on the circumstances, for us to respond.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh man, just to be there, be there for support services.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just to be there as as as support.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was talking to him last night over the phone, it's obvious that since this incident, uh the bond that you guys have, or the friendship, there's a friendship sparked up, you know, since this incident.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, that's that's the true thing that I love about this organization.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Our legal plan is superior, by far superior.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: We've got some of the best attorneys in this in this country, and I think we have the best legal plan uh as far as an association that anybody, it's unmatched.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: But the quality of people that we have here within the organization, field reps, uh, you know, Ray Wilkerson down there on the coast, you down there in Southeast Texas, Clint McNear up in Dallas, Tony Reich.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we got some phenomenal JP down there in the Rio Grande Valley.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: The quality of people we have for this organization, and the and just like this bond, if you want to kind of dive into how you got the call that day, a process of when you get notified of something, what's your process look like from your field of view as a field rep, notification of the board, and so forth?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and two, for listeners and and watchers, all of our field reps are either retired cops or still cops.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um Tyler's uh captain at the SO, soon to be leaving, coming here full time.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Leighton's been a cop forever, and still to this day is full-time with us, but carries your reserve Chambers County.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Chambers County.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: He should shout out to to uh Sheriff Brian Hawthorne.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sheriff Hawthorne, he still goes, you still go out and every now and then.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have to reevaluate this uh reserve status on this guy.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, every now and then.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Hawthorne's like, damn, I didn't even know he worked for me.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is a problem.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, this may hurt your campaign after this episode, there's no doubt.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I I want folks to know that the the field reps um they have experience.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're yeah, we have an incredible amount of experience in our field services with everybody, and they they have different backgrounds and different experiences, but everybody has a ton of law enforcement experience and late in showing up to a scene or to anybody's scene, you understand he's been around the block and he understands, you know, he's not an attorney, but he's there for you, and there is a friend and and understands which you know what we go through.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy that you say that because like Buddy Rector that went to the hospital with Tom, uh Buddy's worked the James Byrd uh incident up in Jasper.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: He had the uh space shuttle that crashed over East Texas.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this guy's a wealth of knowledge.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: A gun battle?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: Gun battle within his police department.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this guy's been through all kind of stuff.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and a lot of us have.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we have what two or three of our field reps have have actually been shot uh in the line of duty.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a wealth of knowledge, a wealth of experience.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: The biggest thing is is everybody that works here uh in field services is passionate about what they do.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's what I think separates us from other people is the passion that we have.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and that customer service is is bar none the best around.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and so like incidents like uh officer-involved shooting, uh, of course, whenever it's you know, sometimes not two or three o'clock in the morning, but we have been out at that time.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: But uh when Tom's incident happened, we got the call.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh me and me and Buddy uh communicated with each other.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: I told Buddy, uh, since he was closer to Beaumont at the time, I told Buddy to go ahead and go up to the hospital and I would go out to the scene.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: That way we were both at both locations.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and that's basically what happened.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: Went out to the location.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think I got I may have even got there before uh the attorney um and basically just started asking the officers, hey man, is there anything y'all need?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh water, food, uh tobacco.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that that happens a lot.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I've been to a lot of shootings in over 13 years at TMPA in the Houston area, and you know, unfortunately, uh people have bad habits, you know, and they they may be out of a cigarette.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, especially under stress.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, under stress for sure.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: They may be out of that cigarette or you know, Copenhagen or whatever.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Vape.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, vape.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've never had to buy vape yet.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't even know what to do.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't even know what to say.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give me that chemical stuff and put in that pen?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be coming back with a crack pipe or something.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: And he'd still smoke it.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: But but you know, the thing is, is guys, people don't realize you're you're out there on the perimeter uh during an officer-involved shooting, and you may have to be going to a Wendy's or a Whaturger or something like that and go buy these guys some food to try to get them through this this incident because sometimes they're out there for eight hours, you know, six hours.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: They're out there for a long time.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, part of our our deal with with field reps, that's part of what we do.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh guys that know us at a lot of these agencies and trust us, uh, usually we're in there, you know, with the officer that's been involved in the shooting because some places, depending on where you go, a lot of smaller agencies maybe that haven't had something like this before, they don't understand the the buddy system, the buddy officer system, stuff like that.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Or don't know what to do, period.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and don't know what to do, period.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: And you you go out there and the and the officer involved, he's standing standing there and doesn't have anybody with him, you know what I'm saying, or or whatever, at least to get his mind off of things for a little bit, you know, just BS with them and you know, try to get his mind off of it a little bit, you know, to ease ease up his uh his mind.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so that day you got the call and and and went out there and uh did you did you meet him, did you actually contact him at the scene or was he already gone at that point?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Tom was already gone to the hospital.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: So basically I met up with the uh sheriff.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: The sheriff was out there, uh, as well as uh some of the Texas Rangers and uh Harton County deputies and some other people that were out there from the mental health unit.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's who I was out there with.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what's interesting too, and I I don't know if you caught this last night whenever Tom came in, is that uh he had a situation a couple years ago where he had he had contacted you and and I I saw that kind of you're you're trying to process where you had contacted, where y'all had crossed paths at.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Oh, Clint, you probably don't remember me.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that conversation kind of went on uh from there, but man, we have an impact like us as field reps with our members, and and it's it's just an awesome feeling to know that our services don't go unnoticed.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think that says a lot for us, but it says a lot about our members too, and and and the and the dedication that you guys have.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the two are parallel, the dedication that you guys have and the passion that we have for serving you guys, uh it's it's just a really good marriage.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and to your point, and to Leighton's point about the passion, if you want to be a fielder up here, you can't go through the motions.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta have a passion to do it.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: And about Tom walking up last night, I would rather have a cop that called in need go, hey dude, you helped me, or you were there, or whatever, or thank you.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: I would rather have that than some award or some there's to me, that's the best recognition.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: That means more to me personally than anything in the world is for somebody to go, hey dude, I called you at 2 a.m.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: one time and you guys were and whoever it is, that's what you know you're you know you're you're being effective if you're helping somebody that needed some help.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's big or small.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's what's important about uh officers keeping their contact information and stuff up to date.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we were lucky because I already had contacts at Harden County uh when this incident happened, but that's the reason for having that information updated because there's times where we do have an incident at a place that maybe we don't know everybody because maybe there's a big turnover rate there or whatever.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we're trying to find out, hey, is this a member of ours so we can get out there and assist and help out?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: And like now, Tom is one of my contacts up in East Texas in Harden County.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: If something goes on, if I see something on Facebook or on the news or something like that, and I'm strolling through and okay, there's something going on in Harden County, you know.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, well, I'm getting on the phone, I'm calling Tom.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, Tom, what's what's going on, man?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: Is you know I'm saying, is somebody hurt?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Do y'all need something over there?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: What you know, and then Tom can relay that information to me, he knows me, knows who I am, and then we can get the help out there that's needed.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I can't tell you when you may not you don't know this, but when this incident took place, Leighton, I mean, we've been there when the situations have turned not so good.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think when Leighton was headed to that scene, I don't think he knew your condition at that point in time.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: When when you hear somebody shot with a crossbow, you know, and it's just a wild story.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, man, thank you so much for coming on and and sharing it.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think the uh you know, the relationship, it highlights the you know, the bond that we create with different members after critical incidences.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think it's just a special thing, and I'm I'm so fortunate that number one, you survived it.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but how cool the two friends that you know got to meet afterwards, you know, and and this this friendship got I just I just ran into him in Port Natchez at a benefit over there.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: And he hollers at me across the day, hey Lane, hey, what's up, Tom?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: So uh before we before we wrap, did this incident affect you?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um was it just hey man, it I was lucky and I got him stopped, all was good, or was there a few days later, or is there a period later where where it hit you or you had to find a way to navigate through this, or was it just a another day at work that got a little sideways?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: So it was pretty much I had no problem with it until we went to trial.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I was telling you this this morning, man, that week of the trial, and I I hardly ever didn't sleep, couldn't sleep.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: I was thinking about, man, what's the defense attorney gonna take and and rail me on?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: Then there's the victim impact statement, which you don't have to do, but it's recommended.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't the incident that you struggled with, it was the stress of trial, or both?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: The stress of trial, the I mean, I wasn't wearing a body cam, didn't have video, none of that going in.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the so I got kind of got hammered on the s stand a little bit about that.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh was that within y'all's policy that you should have it on, or well, so I wasn't assigned any of that.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: My vehicle wasn't outfitted with it.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh they kind of took it as because I'm assigned to the local mental health authority, there there's HIPAA regulations and a bunch of stuff that goes with that, that they're like, eh, we're we're just not gonna have you do body cam.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: So the incident itself was just a rough network, you had to handle business that day.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's never you've never had to figure out a way to manage and unpack or navigate that incident specifically.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: I would say that, but but there's times I I like I can't get on the road that's right there.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's highway 105.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it goes all the way from Beaumont all the way to to 45 out there.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: I can't I can't get on that road without thinking about it.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so so there's a little bit of of things every once in a while I have a a dream about it or whatnot.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but my my biggest issues with it isn't actually that, it was the trial.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: The trial affected me much more than uh It's a big event, stressful event.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're victimizing in almost with the trial.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: So my second part of that, how old do you say you are?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm 40.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: What would 40-year-old Tom say to 22-year-old Tom getting into law enforcement or any young man or woman that's getting into this career field, what would you tell them that you wish you knew when you were 22 about this job or helpful insight, any anything that 40-year-old Tom that's been through some stuff, what would you share with them?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, one I think most young cops are like this.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: They they they're hard chargers right off the beginning.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: They come out of the gate hard charging.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: Man, they there's some compassion that needs to be shown to people.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and and try try to dial that back a little bit.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: Great point.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh then.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I I wish I would have done it, and and I still don't do it to this day.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: I've done it a little bit throughout my career.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: I wish I would have kept a journal for everything that happened.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: And because I've just got some crazy stories, as I'm sure all of y'all do, about just a regular day at work, and everybody to be like, wow, that actually happens out there.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Our craziest stories aren't from being cops, our craziest stories are from working at TMPA.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Man.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: You got anything else?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: Leighton?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: What would you 38?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: How old are you?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wish.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm about to be a grandfather.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is that out?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is out.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: It is now.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to young men and women just getting in the academy or applying or what what would you been around the block and seen a whole lot in your time.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: What would you what would you share with them?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, first, I think that officers nowadays have it a lot harder than we did.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's hard for us to say that as old timers, but um I would I would say basically that kind of the same thing as what Tom said is basically you want to try to treat everybody just like you know you would like for your family to be treated, your mom to be treated, things like that.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but I would also say that at the end of the day, uh you need to be going home in one piece.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so if it calls for action for you to keep yourself safe, then don't hesitate.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: Even with whatever's going on nowadays, you do what you gotta do to go home.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh one more thing is I would say when you're hearing all the war stories from the older guys, don't think that that you have to have your own war stories to fit in and be liked by everybody in the department.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes I think that ends up guys hear stuff that like you could never do nowadays.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, from the older guys, they feel like they got to do something like that to fit in, and then they get caught up in something and get ran off.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great point.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if you spend enough time on this career, you're gonna get your own story.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's no doubt.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: Rapid fire.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, both of you, I'll give you three questions, okay?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you let me down on question number two, we're no longer friends, you're not gonna be invited back.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're done.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: I feel good about question two today.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: One, best line from a cop movie or best cop movie.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: Two, best cop car ever.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Three, best drink of choice adult beverage.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Light and go.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: The first, the line, I think it's uh line or movie.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the other guys.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect pick, yeah.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a peacock, you gotta let me fly.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: The other guys has been popular on the show.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that answers a lot.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm probably the guy carrying the wooden gun.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: No doubt.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: Makers Mark and Crown Victoria.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: Crown Bait.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, that's right.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: Mark it down.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I can't remember the name of the movie.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh that's because the error hit you in the head.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: Probably.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: Probably.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: What was that one with uh Jake Gyllenhaal and uh uh 21 Jump Street?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: I don't remember he he was uh LAPD officer, and they his partner ended up getting shot at the end.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, training uh end of watch.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: End of watch.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's a good movie.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: That probably depicts Bomb Patrol.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: End of watch.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: End of watch.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I I do the Crown and Coke uh thing.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Good choice.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Good choice.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then that's Copcore.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: I've driven the Crown Victoria's a lot.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_03: I still like my Tahoe better.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tahoe.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually probably the third one, I think.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody's picked Tahoe, but Crown Vic's the best.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Ken Gardner, Crown Vic is the best.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: As long as it's not a Ford Explorer.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not a fan of Choic.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Chevy Caprice, if you still want to be a uh that host for the show, we don't mind at all.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Here we go.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Chevy Caprice.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: Here we go.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: Always looking for marketing.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: You got anything else?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, hit subscribe.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wherever you put it, it'll be somewhere in one of these areas.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, hit that button, subscribe.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Dan, yeah.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have to hit it somewhere.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hey, this about wraps it up.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like Clinton said, hit that subscribe button.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's so important for you guys to download the podcast episodes on all the platforms.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of how we rate our uh our success on this.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can listen to them, but be damn sure to go ahead and download that for us.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: We don't get credit for listeners.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, we get credit for downloads.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: And our boss, we work for a guy, John Sriga, that watches it.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: He's kind of a tyrant.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: He's a tyrant, and uh he he he's he's just a tyrant.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just I'll leave it at that.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: So download those episodes so we can have a job, feed our children, and uh have somewhere to live.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I ain't got anything else, Clint.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: Man, you guys stay safe.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Tom, I appreciate you coming up, bro.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoyed it.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoyed it.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Light and you too.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you're you're you're crazy.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just surprised that this went so professionally with three East Texas.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's go ahead and let's go ahead and end it now before it dies up.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: You guys stay safe.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh God bless you guys, and as always, may God bless Texas.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're out