Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1116 - What to Do About Bullying: A Parenting Couch Interview

Transcript

#1116 - What to Do About Bullying: A Parenting Couch Interview · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
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  Speaker 2: once answers now.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Happy Families podcast. Today something
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  Speaker 1: different on the pod Now and then I'm invited onto
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: other people's podcasts to talk about topics of interest, and recently,
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  Speaker 1: in fact, just last week, an episode dropped on The
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  Speaker 1: Parenting Couch with Rachel chap On Sarah Leve They do
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  Speaker 1: a really great job. It's fun podcast to listen to
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: The Parenting Couch. We talked about bullying, and we haven't
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  Speaker 1: done that here on the Happy Families podcast for quite
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  Speaker 1: a while. We're usually talking about social media dramas and
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  Speaker 1: all that kind of thing. The Parenting Couch with Rachel
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  Speaker 1: and Sarah though a conversation about bullying. It was so
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  Speaker 1: important that I wanted to bring you a snippet of
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  Speaker 1: what we discussed. Our conversation went for about forty five
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: minutes fifty minutes. I'm just going to share an edited
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  Speaker 1: version of that, but you might want to pop over
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  Speaker 1: to The parent Couch and listen to the whole thing.
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  Speaker 1: The link is in the show notes. We started our
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  Speaker 1: conversation about bullying with some definitions and types of bullying
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  Speaker 1: that our kids can encounter. Please enjoy my conversation with
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  Speaker 1: Sarah and Rachel from the Parenting Couch.
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  Speaker 2: A good place to start is to get I guess,
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  Speaker 2: a definition or your way of defining what bullying actually is.
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  Speaker 2: Because there's obviously a bit of teasing, you know, you
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  Speaker 2: and I teasing each other at the beginning of this.
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  Speaker 2: So I don't think that was bullying, but it would
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  Speaker 2: be good to get your take on that before we
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  Speaker 2: get started more on the subject.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so most people agree on the definition, and it's
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  Speaker 1: really important to get this right because sometimes parents will say,
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  Speaker 1: my child is being bullied, and they're not being bullied.
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  Speaker 1: Someone was mean to them. So you can have someone
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  Speaker 1: being mean and cruel and unkind and all those things
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  Speaker 1: that's not necessarily bullying. These one off instances or these
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  Speaker 1: occasional someone pope fun or had a bit of a jab.
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  Speaker 1: That's unkindness. It's still not okay. It's just respectful. It's
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  Speaker 1: not okay. But bullying is. It has quite a specific definition,
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  Speaker 1: and across most organizations and throughout academia worldwide, this is
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  Speaker 1: a generally agreed on definition. I say generally because there's
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  Speaker 1: always one or two academics who want to get really,
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  Speaker 1: really fussy about things. But the general, the general agreement
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  Speaker 1: around bullying is this bullying is repeated and intentional use
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  Speaker 1: of words or actions against someone or against a group
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  Speaker 1: of people because you want to hurt them, so you
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  Speaker 1: try to cause distress, you try to risk their well being.
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  Speaker 1: Usually we divided into four different types of bullying. There's
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  Speaker 1: physical bullying. That's obviously were hitting and the pushing and
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  Speaker 1: the shoving and the intimidating and the ripping someone's bags
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  Speaker 1: off their shoulders and chucking them on the bag and
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  Speaker 1: on the ground and kicking it. There's verbal bullying, which
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  Speaker 1: can also be written, so I guess just the use
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  Speaker 1: of woods. So it's name calling, it's insulting someone. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: you've got kids who are, say, neurodivergent, and they get
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  Speaker 1: called more names. Back when I was a kid, I don't,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know that this happens anymore. Maybe it does,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm just too old and too far away from
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  Speaker 1: it now. But when I was a kid going through
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  Speaker 1: primary school, I remember kids that wore glasses were literally
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: called four eyes, and that was a denigrating insult. Kids
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  Speaker 1: that were carrying too much weight would be teased incessantly
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  Speaker 1: about it, and so that's that verbal kind of bullying.
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  Speaker 1: Then you've got social bullying, which is essentially ostracism when
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  Speaker 1: you're deliberately excluding someone, when you're spreading rumors, when you're
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  Speaker 1: sharing information and gossiping with an expectation that you are
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  Speaker 1: going to cause a harmful effect on the other person.
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  Speaker 1: You're going to cause reputational damage, You're going to impact
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  Speaker 1: the ability that they have to be accepted socially, so
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  Speaker 1: there are social costs. And then the last one cyberbullying,
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  Speaker 1: which is pretty much any of the above and more
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  Speaker 1: that could happen online of ironmobile device. That's how we
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  Speaker 1: define bullying. So that was a long definition. I hope
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  Speaker 1: that's okay, but it's important.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, yeah. I mean, I guess what sparked this
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  Speaker 3: particular conversation between and I like, we just we realize
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  Speaker 3: we haven't done it an episode on bullying. And my
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  Speaker 3: question is, first of all, how can we open up
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  Speaker 3: the conversation with our children because they might not necessarily
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  Speaker 3: they might be ashamed about it, they might be embarrassed.
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  Speaker 3: And if you do find out, what steps do you
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  Speaker 3: need to take to protect your child. Do you go
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  Speaker 3: to the parent, do you go to the teacher, do
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  Speaker 3: you go to the school? How do you handle it?
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  Speaker 1: Let's say that you just want to check in with
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  Speaker 1: your child. I'm an ambassador for aook Day. An iook
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  Speaker 1: Day happens on a specific day every year, but the
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  Speaker 1: message that they really promote is it's aook day every day.
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  Speaker 1: We've got to be just checking in and asking those questions. Now,
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  Speaker 1: now here's something curious. The more you ask people how
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  Speaker 1: they're doing, the more they realize that they're not doing
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  Speaker 1: that well most of the time. Like we all have
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  Speaker 1: moments where we're awesome and then we're not, And our
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  Speaker 1: emotions are like waves. They come in and they go out,
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  Speaker 1: and we have one emotion, then we have another one,
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  Speaker 1: and every single one of them is going to be different. Nevertheless,
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  Speaker 1: when we say to our kids, how you're doing, is
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  Speaker 1: everything okay? That can feel a little bit targeted. It
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  Speaker 1: can feel like it's a little bit much. If you're
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  Speaker 1: in a family where you're lucky enough to have beautiful, open,
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  Speaker 1: generous sharing relationships, happy days, but unfortunately, too many families
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  Speaker 1: don't have those relationships. So I've got a couple of recommendations.
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  Speaker 1: The first one is there are going to be a
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  Speaker 1: few moments every day where you can get your child
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  Speaker 1: at a time where they are open, when they are relaxed,
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  Speaker 1: and when they're willing to talk. And I reckon you
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  Speaker 1: guys could tell me those times because you would have
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  Speaker 1: them with your kids. It's usually late at night when
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: they're about to go to bed and you're laying down. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, they just when the kids open up. And
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  Speaker 1: if you can have those check ins reasonably regularly, maybe
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  Speaker 1: once a week, maybe twice a week, maybe once a
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: fortnight where you just there's downtime. A good mate of mind. Unfortunately,
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  Speaker 1: he passed away a few years ago. It was about
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  Speaker 1: fifty years old and he just died way too early
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: from a heart attack. But he used to sit on
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  Speaker 1: the couch. Rob would sit on the couch in the
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  Speaker 1: living room because he knew the kids would walk through
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  Speaker 1: the living room and see him there and he would
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  Speaker 1: not be watching TV, and he would not be reading
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  Speaker 1: a book or the paper, and he would not be
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  Speaker 1: staring at a phone. He'd just be sitting on the couch.
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  Speaker 1: And he described it to me. He just said, invariably,
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  Speaker 1: the kids will walk through the living room and they say, oh, hey, Dad,
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  Speaker 1: what youre doing? And he'll say, I'm just sitting on
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  Speaker 1: the couch and they would come and sit down with
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  Speaker 1: him because they I don't know if you've noticed this,
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  Speaker 1: but when you don't seem to have a whole lot
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  Speaker 1: going on, the kids, they just gravitate to you. The
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  Speaker 1: more targeted thing that you can do once the relationship
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  Speaker 1: feels good. I mean, here's the thing. Kids fell love
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  Speaker 1: t im And just like dollars are the currency of
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: our economy, connection is the currency of our relationships. And
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  Speaker 1: so when our kids feel connected, they feel seen, heard
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  Speaker 1: and value. That's when you can start asking some deeper
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  Speaker 1: questions if you feel a need, so you might say
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  Speaker 1: something like, hey, I listened to a podcast the other
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  Speaker 1: day Rachel and Sarah and the Parenting Couch. They just
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  Speaker 1: my favorite people listen to And they had this chat
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  Speaker 1: with this guy and he was talking about bullying. Do
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  Speaker 1: you see much of that happening at school? Like How's
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  Speaker 1: because every school's got it? Do you see much of it?
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  Speaker 1: And you need to be that direct. Every school has
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  Speaker 1: got it. I don't know a single school in the
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  Speaker 1: country that doesn't have some bullying at some point, and
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  Speaker 1: so you just say, every school's got it, how much
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  Speaker 1: do you see? Does it happen much at your school?
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  Speaker 1: And you start really wide. Does it happen much at
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  Speaker 1: your school? Does it happen much in your grade? Is
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  Speaker 1: there a bunch of kids that are sort of more
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  Speaker 1: likely to bully than others? Or is there I'm pretty chill?
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  Speaker 1: And then you might say, what about in your friendship group?
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  Speaker 1: Does it happen much there? Has it ever happened to you?
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  Speaker 1: And so you can see how I've started really wide,
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  Speaker 1: And so the kids feeling comfortable talking generally, and then
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  Speaker 1: bit by bit, as the conversation moves along, you finally
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  Speaker 1: get to them and and ideally, in a perfect world,
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  Speaker 1: if trust has been established and they're enjoying the smoothie,
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  Speaker 1: they'll say, yeah, actually, something did happen to me a
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  Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. And that's the bit where you
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: jump across the table, grab them by the collar and
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  Speaker 1: say why didn't you tell me? No, you don't really
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  Speaker 1: do that, grab them and wrap them up in.
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  Speaker 3: Ye yeah, never let them leave the house.
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  Speaker 1: It's twenty twenty four, so we've got to be very
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  Speaker 1: careful these days. We've got to bubble wrap our kids.
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  Speaker 1: And so it's this very gentle conversation where we're inviting
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: them in, we're just chatting with them about things. When
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  Speaker 1: we get closer and closer and closer, Rachel, I guess
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  Speaker 1: the other to sort of wrap up this part of
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  Speaker 1: the question that you ask. The other thing that I
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  Speaker 1: really like to do and encourage is to say to
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  Speaker 1: kids something like, what would you do if you saw someone,
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  Speaker 1: like just a random at school bullying another kid? What
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  Speaker 1: would you do? Because there's all this talk about being
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  Speaker 1: an upstander not a bystander, would you would you actually
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  Speaker 1: have the guts to step in? Like? What if it
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  Speaker 1: was a boy doing it to another boy? And I
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  Speaker 1: don't know, Let's say your child's in grade four and
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  Speaker 1: this bully is in grade six, for example, what would
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  Speaker 1: you do then? Like, because it's really hard to be
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  Speaker 1: an upstander and say to a grade six boy stop
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  Speaker 1: it when you're only in grade three and he's twice
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: your size you how do you deal with that? And
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: by asking the kids that a couple of really interesting
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  Speaker 1: things happen, Number One, it gives them. It gives them
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  Speaker 1: the opportunity to pause and think. Because we're always lecturing them,
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  Speaker 1: and they start to figure stuff out, they start to
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: figure out what kind of a person they are. They
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  Speaker 1: also get a bit of a dry run, like they
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  Speaker 1: get to practice safely with you in the living room
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  Speaker 1: or on the couch before it really does happen, so
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  Speaker 1: they can go, yeah, this is what I think I
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  Speaker 1: would do, and when they give an answer, you can say,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know. Let's say your Grade three boy says, well,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I've been doing jiu jitsu for the last three months,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: and I think that I could take their kneecaps out.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: And you might say, well, I guess that's one option.
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  Speaker 1: How might that go? And generalmen like you don't have
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: to tell them that they're wrong. You can get really
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: creative with this and say, well, let's explore that further.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: How does that help, what are the risks, what other
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: options are there? And so we kind of get to
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: play around with ideas with them until they start to
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  Speaker 1: zero in on the response.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: So you've found out that your child has been bullied
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  Speaker 3: and they've opened up to you, and you've you've you've
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: used the techniques that you've that you've suggested. What next?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously it might very depend on if it's
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  Speaker 3: a young primary school or if it's a high school,
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  Speaker 3: do you go to the do you speak to the
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  Speaker 3: school about it? What if you're actually really good friends
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  Speaker 3: with the parent. Sorry I'm actually diverging and adding extra questions,
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  Speaker 3: but you know, like but like if you if you
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: know that you actually know the parent, do you send
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: them a message on Facebook? Or like, how do you
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  Speaker 3: handle this? Because you're you're the big mama bear and
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: you want to look after your child and they're so sad.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So the first thing, the first thing that
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: you've got to do is regulate. Just just get yourself
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: under control. If you go all Mama bear or Papa bear,
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  Speaker 1: if you start blowing up, then you're just going to
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  Speaker 1: start bullying everybody else and it gets really really messy.
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  Speaker 1: As a general rule, I don't encourage parents to contact
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: other parents and make an accusation that your child's bullying
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  Speaker 1: my child. It rarely goes, well, it's really really unlikely. Now,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: if you've got evidence, let's say there's some video footage,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: or let's say you've got some text messages or some
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Insta chat content or whatever. If you've got evidence and
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: you've got a relationship with these people. Then it may
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: in some cases, and I really want to put big
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: flashing lights around some it may in some cases be
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: appropriate to contact them. I'll share a personal example here.
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  Speaker 1: One of my daughters was having a text chat on
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: whatever platform. It was maybe eight years ago, five years
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  Speaker 1: ago or something like that. I think she and the
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  Speaker 1: boys she was talking to, I think they were in
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: about grade eight, maybe grade nine. And he made some
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: inappropriate comments, and then he made some inappropriate solicitations, really
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  Speaker 1: really quite explicit, and really just my daughter was like,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: hang on, are we friends? Like I thought we knew
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: each other, We've known each other since primary school, and
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: they putting this on me like she was just she
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: was shocked, and she came straight out to me and
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Kylie and said, can you just have a look at this.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure what to do. So from that
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: point of view, we were really grateful. Right, here's a
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: child who's willing to talk to us about a challenging situation.
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  Speaker 1: So I took the screenshots, and because I knew those parents,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: and I didn't know them well, but I knew them
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: well enough, and so I sent them a text message
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: and I said, Hi, let's say it was Rachel. Hi, Rachel,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: it's justin Coilson here. Something's just come up tonight involving
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: our kids. That's a little bit tricky, and I wanted
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: to bring you in on it, but it is pretty sensitive.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Is now a good time? And so by framing it
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: that way and by not blaming anybody, but just saying
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: there's something going on between our kids, it's a little
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: bit tricky. I wanted to bring you in. Is that okay?
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: And I got an instant response absolutely, yeah. What is
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: it that you want to talk? Do you want to
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: talk or text? How do you want to do this?
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  Speaker 1: And I said, I said to them, I'm going to
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: send you a couple of screenshots from my daughter's phone.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Once you've had a look at them, if you just
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: want to come back to me and tell me what
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: you think would be best in terms of how we proceed.
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  Speaker 1: So what I'm doing here is I'm really kind of
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: just putting it on them and saying I'm concerned. What
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: do you think? So I sent the screenshots. Through the
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: screenshots spoke for themselves. I didn't need to do anything else.
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  Speaker 1: And this is the other thing, right, when you've got evidence,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: when it's incontrovertible. You're on pretty sure footing, and that's
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: why I felt confident that in some circumstances like this,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I could get away with it. They came back to
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: me and they said, we're horrified, we're dealing with it.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Will be in touch. And about a week later they
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: told us about the conversations. They actually asked if they
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: could get some more advice because they knew who I
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: wasn't what I did. So that ended up being helpful.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: And as much as I can, I want to get
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: on the wrong side.
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  Speaker 1: And those parents wonderful and then I was able to
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: talk to them about, well, here's your next conversation, in
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: your next conversation, and that was the end of the
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: relationship that my daughter had with their son. That was
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: it broke her trust. Nevertheless, they had some good learnings
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: together and he saw the ramifications of it. So a
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: long way of saying, my general recommendation is don't contact
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: the parents, but in some circumstances such as those where
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: there is in controvertible evidence and you can ask them
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: what they think the next steps should be perfect framing
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: it the right way, that's helpful In terms of other
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: situations like let's say you're in a situation where you
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: don't know the parents or you don't have evidence of
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: what's going on, and you're just trying to protect your child.
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  Speaker 1: This is one of those things where the severity of
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: what's occurring, the regularity and consistency of what's occurring, the
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: resources that you have available, all of these things will
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: play a part. Okay, if there's ongoing bullying, not that
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: we're trying to entrap other kids here, but if there's
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: ongoing bulling, then you want to be able to find evidence,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: and you want to ask your child, how can we
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: get some evidence here? I would recommend if it's happening
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: at school, or if it's happening at whatever the sports
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: activity is that you do in the afternoon, or maybe
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: you've got a church group or something, whatever it is
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: that you do. Wherever it's happening, there is value in
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: talking to the other adults, talking to people who have
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: some level of accountability here, That is useful. However, once again,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I strongly discourage those adults, those leaders, those teachers, whoever
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: they are stepping in and saying right, well, I'll fix
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: this now, because all that happens is we pushed underground instead,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: a concerted effort where there are quiet conversations tend to
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: be much more helpful. So maybe the school teacher sits
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: down and tries to understand the context and explores, explains
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and empowers. Maybe there are some minor adjustments that can
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: be made at school so that the child, your child
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: feels safe and those bullies are in a different a
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: different place now, whether it's changing class or mixing up
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: time tables or whatever, coming up with constructive solutions will
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: always be the preference. Then again, if you have really
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: serious cases of bullying, you've got situations where children's mental
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: health is absolutely getting hammered, where there's physical harm, violence threats,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: those kinds of things, then intervention is necessary. As a parent,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: you've got one central job, and that is to protect
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: your kids. I'm not saying that to throw any shade
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: on families where tragedy has occurred. I'm not saying they
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: didn't protect their kids. What I'm saying is you just
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: do whatever you've got to do.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Every situation is so different and unique, and you've been
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: amazing as always, and we are so grateful to have
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: you on once again, and we will be getting you
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: back as we've talked about, but this is such a
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: big subject. It's very on topic. Of course at the moment,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I think it always has been. I think now obviously
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: with social media and other things, it is just right
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: and you know what you've just said, and to have
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: this conversation is really really important.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: So thank you for your time.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I love hanging out with you guys. I wish we
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: had more time. That this was fun. That's just a
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: sneak peek of a much longer conversation that I had
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: with Rachel and Sarah from the Parenting Couch. You can
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: find more about their podcast in the show notes. Please
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: click and go over and have a listen to the
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: whole thing. Thanks so much for listening, though. The Happy
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: If you want more information about making your family happier,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: send us to your questions happy families dot com dot you,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: or visit us at our website and social media pages.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families