Latest / The Spiro Podcast: Managing your Real Estate Photography & Videography Business / Not Selling, Sells!

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Not Selling, Sells! · The Spiro Podcast: Managing your Real Estate Photography & Videography Business

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Coming up on this episode of The Spiro podcast.
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So when they hear that they have a negative, you know,
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thought process on that, they, they don't want to be sold to
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they don't want to sell to others.
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But if you take yourself out of that extreme mentality on that side of things
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into more of the consultative selling then one, your fears are going to go away.
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Hi and welcome to the Spiro Podcast,
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managing your real estate, photography and videography business.
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Spiro is a software platform.
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It's designed to help you manage and run your day to day real estate
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media business and ultimately really help it to scale up as well.
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I'm Craig Magrum, thanks for joining us this week.
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And this week we do not have our fearless leader, Todd Kivimaki.
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But we do have two other, faces that you have seen before and or heard before.
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If you're listening to the audio podcast, and I'll introduce them in just a second.
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We got a great topic for you this week.
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In some some voices of experience to share with you on this topic.
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But before we dive in, just want to give you a quick update
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on the Spiro Sync conference that is coming up in January.
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We still have room.
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For you to attend. Only 150 spots total.
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The VIP experience has already that
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that sold out almost immediately, but we still have some room for you.
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To come and join us in Dayton, Ohio.
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And, you can find out more by going to Spiro.media.
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And in the top nav bar there is, Spiro Sync 26, link that you can click
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to find out more.
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And we'd love to to join, have you join us and meet us in person. So
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that's really all we've
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got in terms of, Spiro updates this week.
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Todd will be off this week and next week and then be rejoining us.
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And we're heading into Vegas and the REPP conference and the PMRE Conference.
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Lots of great, times to get together and exchange ideas.
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So all right, that's going to do it for announcements.
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Let me introduce our guests.
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Slash co-host Steve Musser.
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VP of sales marketing.
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Did I get the the title right?
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Not that you care about title Steve
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The business card says director.
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Director. Hang by.
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But you can call me whatever you want to
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of Wow video tours. And also Chris Voge.
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He is our sales manager, business development manager for Wow Video Tours.
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Steven, Chris, thanks for joining me.
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Joining me this week. Yeah, thanks Craig.
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Thanks for having us. Yeah, absolutely.
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Well, one and whenever the three of us get in a room, the topic is sales. And,
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I'm constantly seeing
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questions in Facebook groups, related real estate media
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about different sales techniques and how to, you know, develop
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your business and how to approach people and get your business running.
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And there's a lot of anxiety around the subject of sales and business development.
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And so we wanted to pick your your brain.
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And in the topic, the way we're kind of kind of couch,
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this is not selling sells.
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The overall agreement disagreement.
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What what do you think Steve.
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Yeah. No I, I agree 100%.
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So sales I think is one of those things that when a lot of people hear it, they,
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they either if you're not in sales, you kind of cringe, you know, or you're
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if you're in one of those positions that's kind of,
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tiptoeing in and out of sales, you kind of cringe on that side of things.
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So I know, I know,
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it's something that, can be a little bit intimidating on that side of things,
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but I, I agree with that because you don't have to approach it from a,
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your stereotypical like used car salesman approach to be in sales.
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You know, anything that you're doing that, build relationships, connect
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with people, get them what they need, and it's going to further their business.
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That is sales.
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So not selling is the sales, right?
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Chris, your thoughts overall, what do you think of
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when you hear the word sales? Yeah.
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It's interesting because, you know, we had we were actually meeting
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with a photographer earlier in this week and he was so nice.
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Like, I don't like selling out. I don't like getting out there.
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And and, you know, he he had the old traditional,
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the, that hard core, you know, what you see on the movies kind of pitch,
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man sort of thing, where you trick people and stuff like that. And,
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I don't like that either, you know?
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So basically we had to explain to him that there's that, that the term
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selling is, is can have different meanings and,
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and that hard, close, trick, you know, like,
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be like and, and, and, you know, this crazy verbiage and stuff
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like that,
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especially in this business because you're talking
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to other salespeople, it just doesn't work.
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So you have to go with a different approach for sure.
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Right?
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So let's let's dive into that a little bit, a little bit deeper.
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I like looking at this from, from a different perspective.
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So Steve, obviously we've given the overall view of sales, but
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as a business owner, you know, obviously
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you're you're leading from a standpoint of sales and marketing at
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Wow video tours.
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Your experience kind of like what Chris just referenced in
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speaking to another business owner.
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What has your perception been from business owners
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when when you're talking with them, seeing them start their own business?
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What do
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owners usually think of when they think of sales?
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Yeah, I mean, think of it from, from any business owner or,
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you know, if you've ever had, yourself in that seat,
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you know, one thing that, that I think people think of is, is they're contacted,
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you know, 5 or 10, 20 times a week, from different people saying by this, by this,
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by this, and so in their head, that's what they're thinking, the sales approaches.
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And so they don't like being sold to, they have to sell to their clients,
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but they don't want to be that person that's been reaching out to them
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and harassing them, trying to get them to buy whatever service
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or whatever the case would be on that side of that.
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And so I think, I think you have to, to kind of disconnect there, you know,
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as a business owner and just understand that
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when we talk about selling, it's basically,
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you know, boil it down to the basics, is, is you have a in demand service that
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they need, and you just need to connect them
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to the right services and products and everything under that umbrella
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to help them advance their business.
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So if you're doing that, you are selling without any of the,
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the stigma behind selling on that side of things.
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Chris, when when you've talked to people,
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that are purchasing things,
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do you have any stories or things that you've experienced or run
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into out, out in the marketplace of people that are being sold or what?
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What's the consumer view of sales from your your perspective?
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Well, I mean, I can give you my perspective,
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you know, so, yeah, I've been in, so many sales training classes.
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Yeah, I've been selling for, we'll call it 30 years now.
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And, I've been in so many training classes and some of these in seminars
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and things like that.
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And, and you go to these things and it'll be like, you know, these, these,
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these trainers will say, write this down and say this exactly this way.
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And, and I'm just like, no, I'm not going to do that.
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But then it's always funny when I get when I get a phone call,
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you know, from
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obviously like a telemarketer or something like that.
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And I hear them using techniques, it's like,
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yeah, I was taught that technique too, and I it's just like, let me tell you.
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And I just run circles around it, like,
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I want to get to the point where I play games with them
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because it's just like, yeah, this, this stuff is
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it doesn't work, you know, be honest, just be straightforward.
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And when you come in, you're hitting me with the sales pitch.
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People feel that. People know that.
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And the first thing it does, it just makes it just pushes you
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that it makes them want to push you away and and turns them off.
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And it's just not not the right way to go.
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You know, you got to be genuine.
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And then the typical we'll call
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car salesman, the used car salesman, that's what everybody talks about.
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That typical person is just ever like they're hated for a reason.
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You know that.
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That's the stereotype is is there for a reason and you just can't do it.
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So it's just it's not the way to go.
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Right? Right.
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I was going to ask, you know what?
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What do you think? People don't like being sold.
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Can I get into the psychology?
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But I think it's kind of self-evident.
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Steve. What? Wouldn't you agree?
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It's just. Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I think
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I think, you know, from my perspective, you know, same same as Chris.
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You know, I've been in sales my, my entire life, you know, in different aspects.
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I've been lucky enough to be in
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consultative selling, which matches up to what Chris and I believe in.
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And what our philosophy is, is
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just you build a relationship, you help people out and everything.
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The sales take care of themselves
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because you're you're doing everything the right way
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and getting them what they need and everything else.
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The flip side of that is, is the high pressure tactics, too,
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where you know, if you don't,
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if you don't buy from me, you're making a huge mistake.
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You know, you need to do this, you need to do that.
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And so, unfortunately, that side of the sales
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is why people associate with it is that, you know, psychologically.
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So when they hear that they have a negative, you know,
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thought process on that, they, they don't want to be sold to
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they don't want to sell to others.
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But if you take yourself out of that extreme mentality on that side of things
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into more of the consultative selling then one, your fears are going to go away.
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You're not going to have to worry about, oh, I have to sell.
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You're going to be like, oh, I get to talk to people.
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I get to build relationships, I get to do all this.
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And then your your clients are also going to react to
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it much more positively because it's not a sales call.
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It's a call from my, my friend Chris that's helping me out,
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you know, on this listing or whatever the case is.
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So that's I think the biggest thing is, is break
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that break that mentality that it has to be
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the extreme side of the sales, and it starts to open up a lot of doors.
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Chris, would you agree or disagree
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that even even in the consultative type of approach, there's still some,
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quote unquote, like traditional or stereotypical sales
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things that you have to do, like say cold calling,
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or following up on a referral with somebody you haven't talked to.
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Is that fair to say that?
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Yeah, I think it's fair to say,
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I mean, because in this business, you know, I mean, you
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I guess you could never cold call, but, then, you know, you
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then you're just, you know, you're not really selling in any way.
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You're hoping that people refer you and things on those lines.
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But that being said, though, two, he can
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you can still cold call people and be genuine.
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And, and and then
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you just come across less like, like the, like Steve
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said, the, the actual sales person that you come across is somebody,
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you know, reaching out, like, you know, trying to win your business.
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But so yeah, you, you it's it's a fine line.
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You, you walk where you
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I think the key is being genuine.
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If you are who you are and you just kind of going in there
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and and open and honest, not not trying to be sly or anything like that.
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You can still do
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these, you know, these sales things, like, you need to follow up with people.
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You need to check in, you need to
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cold call, warm call, whatever, whatever it might be.
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But you can do it in a way to where you're it's less,
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offensive and less, slimy for for people to call.
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I like that word slimy.
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Yeah. It's, Yeah.
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So most of us, I don't think, want to be slimy.
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You know, I, I, you know, I work with both of you, obviously is
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doing business development in the market that I'm in, and and
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I don't want my reputation to be the slimy, slick sales guy.
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Right.
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You know, we want to be real with people
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and we want to we want to help and serve people.
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And I really believe
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when I first got into this, I literally prayed a prayer of like, God,
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would you give me something I can, I can sell that is of true value
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to somebody like this really will help somebody.
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And at least from my perspective, I feel like I can't really sell something
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with a clear conscience unless I truly believe that
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what I'm selling is really going to serve somebody well.
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And when you when you truly believe that,
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then you can come through as an authentic person in genuine
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and not the slick, slimy type of personality where, yeah, you're
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trying to sell a used lemon of a car
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or something like that.
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Steve, I kind of want to.
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I like top three lists or like three points of action.
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So we've we've kind of gone through that just, you know, the overall,
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psychology of selling, but it's not selling because not selling sells.
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That's, that's the overall arching theme here.
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So can you share your top three ways
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that you sell by not selling a story?
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You know, a certain approach.
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Top three things just kind of step us through.
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And then Chris will have you do the same.
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Yeah. No.
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So so throughout my career, like I said, I've been and
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and the consultative selling you know, side of sales.
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And so I appreciate that.
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And it's helped me.
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Everybody has a little bit different method to get there.
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You know I, I still works with a lot of companies
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that still have their sales process, their acronyms.
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They're you know, you got to do this, this and this and it's all true.
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But it all I don't really comes down to is is start the relationship.
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You know.
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So even if you're doing a cold call introduce yourself.
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Let them know who you are.
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Be genuine with it so you don't have to worry about,
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you know, it's like, hey, what can we get you on the books today?
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You know, that's not how you really know.
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If you're not trying to get that way.
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So so get that introduction done, you know, start building that relationship.
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I think that number two would be uncover the needs.
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So understand where they're at now and what their needs are.
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So obviously in our, in our industry, either they're real estate
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agents or brokers is who we're talking about.
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So their needs, you know, you can oversimplify and say real estate media.
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But everybody's a little bit different.
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You know, maybe
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maybe they already have a partner in place.
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So maybe their need is not you at that moment, but you can still kind of
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talk to that and understand what they need at that moment
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and then try to move to step three,
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which is essentially match up what you're offering.
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That solves the problem of their needs.
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So, you know, if they have, a good example we always use
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is, is a lot of times on cold calls, we'll call, we'll call, we'll reach out
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to an agent and say, you know, hey, I'm Stive with Wow video tours,
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you know, we do the real estate media in the, in the market,
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you know, and just wanted to introduce myself
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and do you mind me asking you, who do you currently use for your media?
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And so in that situation, you started the introduction.
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You're getting to the question in a probing to understand
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like what their needs are.
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And so they may spin out, you know, it's like, hey, I have my
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you know, we hear a lot.
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You know, my family member does my media or the brokers
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I work for has already has somebody in place.
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And so their needs right now might not be for you.
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So you can still sell to them, but and build that relationship,
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but just kind of start the conversation and say, hey, you know, I understand,
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you know, Chris, Chris, I think he's the one that taught me this.
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I just kind of go into you, you know, I don't want to step on toes.
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You know, relationships are key in our business, you know?
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So that's that's important to me to,
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and then keep asking the
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questions, you know, and just kind of see,
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you have a solution already for your needs,
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but isn't a total solution, you know, are they always available?
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Do they do all the services you need? Do they?
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If you can ask those questions, all you're trying to do
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is find out what those needs are and what they still have a a hole,
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you know, in their business to try to fill
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and then introduce, you know, your solutions to those problems.
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And, and,
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you know, it's not always going to be an instant close by if you follow
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kind of those three steps and that's the oversimplification of the process.
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But, will get you to where you need to be, you know, and sometimes that's day
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one that you start, you know,
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that that relationship and possibly even sell them right there.
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It may be, you know, two years down the road when finally,
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you know, something switches, you know, and then they have
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that need at that moment and they're going to think of you.
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So that's kind of, the oversimplified steps on that side of things.
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I was you you touched on the number one question
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I had is, is this all in the first call that you're doing?
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You know, that first cold call,
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are you ask, trying to uncover the needs immediately there?
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Or are you asking for an appointment to meet with, in person
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to talk through those things?
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What what what is worked best for you?
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I think I think some of it depends, you know,
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on who the person is, how the conversation goes, things along those lines.
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But I think it's an opportunity on the first call
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to kind of start getting some of those those needs uncovered,
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figure out where they're currently at, you know, what their
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what their current solutions are, if it's the best solution for them.
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All of that stuff, it's going to it's going to vary.
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You know, it's not a it's not a silver bullet.
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Sometimes you're doing that right on the phone.
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Sometimes, you know, if you especially if you know the person,
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but you haven't had a chance to connect
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with them on a business level at that point,
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and, you know, they're more personal or they want to sit down and discuss.
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You can offer that.
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So you kind of carry that, and some of that conversation
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will kind of dictate where that goes to you.
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You know, if they're if they're like, hey, it's not a great time right now.
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You know, you can follow up with, you know, hey, can we meet in person?
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Can I stop in, can I buy you lunch? Can I get a coffee?
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You know that there's a lot of avenues there.
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So it could be on that initial call, but that might just be step one.
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And then you continue on and and even that to get, good conversation
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where you start getting more of that uncovered, that might be, you know,
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a month, six months, a year down the road until you can get to that point.
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But you start with one and kind of work through.
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And that timeline is going to vary a little bit by if you can do those,
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then then your business is going to show the benefit of that.
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Right?
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So you've kind of mentioned in passing a couple of times
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this isn't necessarily an immediate response type of approach.
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It can take time and we need to be patient with that.
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Yes. Be patient.
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You know, that's if if you go after that hard close like Chris
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kind of alluded to earlier, is that one, it's going to typically turn them away.
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You know, it's going to be like okay now in their head they're going to think,
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how quick can I get off this phone call and never talk to this person again?
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You know?
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And that's like so so be using Chris's word.
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Be genuine.
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You know, when you're talking
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to the person, start that, start that relationship off.
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It may be just that.
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It may be like, hey, I'm Steve with wow video tours,
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you know,
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and that might be,
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you know,
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outside of those first couple sentences that your conversation might fade
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out right there.
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By then, just put a pin in it, schedule your next activity.
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So we're going to follow up in a couple days a week, whatever the case is,
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you know, trying to catch them at a better time
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or get a better conversation going, things like that,
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and then just continue the process on that next step.
19:45
Excellent. Chris, how about you?
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What what are your top three ways of selling without selling been
19:52
throughout your career and any stories you have that you know feel free to share?
19:56
Sure.
19:57
I think I think a lot of what you know, like Steve and I have very similar
20:01
philosophies and similar, you know, like the way we approach things,
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I think it's more like to, to feed off of what he's kind of talking about.
20:09
There's a few caveats to keep in mind.
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First of all, when I do call people, you know, I actually use the same question.
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But I start the first question I asked them, and this is
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this is a risky one in some ways is first, like so I'll call them, say, hey,
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this is Chris with Wow Video Tours.
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Did I catch you at a good time.
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Now, the reason it's risky is because somebody could just lie and say no, no.
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And then the and then you say, when would be a better time to call you back?
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And then they don't answer.
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And that's, that's always a risky you do.
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But if you call somebody and they are in the middle of something
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and then you just go into your agenda,
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they're going to get angry, they're going to kick you.
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And then that's our thing.
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So I genuinely ask that.
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And usually what I'll get and you can even hear in their voice,
20:55
you can hear like, well, I have a second.
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Like, what do you want, man?
20:59
You know, like they just they're waiting for it to come and
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and so then, then they go into, you know, like, hey, I just
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I wanted to reach out to you, you know, you know, I noticed
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that a lot of times I notice you're a major player in the real estate market.
21:14
I just want to ask you, who do you use for in real estate media
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and then let them go from there?
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The key
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to it is don't go into it with an agenda because you asked about,
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like, do you close, you know, on the same call, don't go into with an agenda.
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Don't go in there like I'm going to sell that this product and this product
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and this product because those products may not mean a thing to that person.
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So you go into it asking questions and getting to understand
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what their needs are.
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And then what you do is you fit base.
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They say, these are my needs.
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And you say, okay, I can meet those needs or I can't meet those needs
21:52
because that might also be the case.
21:54
They may be like, I want you to be able to
21:57
if I call you up, I want you to be able to go shoot in an hour at this house.
22:01
And if you can't do that, then that might not be the client for you.
22:04
And, you know,
22:05
so you just you have to figure out, like, what is this person's needs?
22:09
Can I meet those needs?
22:10
Now let me tell that person how I can meet those needs.
22:14
As far as
22:15
asking the question with regards to,
22:18
do you try and set up a meeting, that sort of thing?
22:21
I personally have always been,
22:25
I'm going to go until you stop me.
22:28
So I spent 20 years selling new homes, and I.
22:31
I sold a lot of homes.
22:33
People walked in the door
22:35
and they walked out the door, having bought a new home that day.
22:38
Now, it took hours to do this, but my philosophy was always,
22:43
I'm going to keep going until you stop me.
22:45
And so in this business, it's the same thing.
22:48
I keep asking questions.
22:50
I get to know what they're looking for, what it is, and then,
22:54
and then I kind of say, you know, hey, yeah, we, you know, we've got this
22:57
product, we've got this product, you know, like, everything you're looking for.
23:00
I can take care of that.
23:02
And then, you know, I may ask you a question.
23:04
Do you have a coming out that we could, that we can take care of
23:07
for you, help you with, show you what we can do?
23:11
And if they do, and, then
23:13
my next question is going to be, well, you know, let me let me do this.
23:17
Let me get you on the system.
23:18
Let's let's get you in.
23:20
Let's get it to get, an appointment set up and let's see if we can get it done.
23:24
And again, if they if they'll let me do that, I will do that.
23:27
I will follow all the way through.
23:28
Now, that's the reality of it is the odds of catching somebody
23:33
who who needs, who needs, doesn't like who they're working with, needs to find
23:38
somebody and has a listing ready to go are kind of low.
23:43
So you're going to get stopped at some point in time.
23:45
But again,
23:45
you just you just think, okay, so yes, they're they're open to talk and what this
23:51
but no, they don't have a listing.
23:53
And so then, you know, then you kind of go, okay, what's my fallback.
23:56
Well, so I can't, I can't, quote, sell them a,
24:01
an appointment to that, you know, an actual,
24:04
where we go out and capture the media.
24:08
What I'll do that is I'll say, you know, you know, do you have anything coming up?
24:11
And, and so let's say that I asked a question.
24:13
You have me coming up, we can help you with,
24:16
and they may say like, nothing right now, but,
24:19
you know, at the end of October, early November, I've got a house
24:22
that's going to go on the market that I'm going to be listing.
24:26
And so it's, you know, at that point that what I would say is like, okay, great.
24:30
Well, let me do this. Let me send you some information.
24:34
And then let me, I'll, I'll touch base.
24:37
You know, I'll touch base here.
24:38
It's to today is, you know, October 17th and they're saying the end of October,
24:42
early November.
24:44
So I'll touch base like in a week or ten days
24:47
and, just see how that's coming along.
24:50
And I'd love to.
24:51
I'd love to go, you know, capture that home for you to show you what we can do.
24:55
And so you're getting them to verbally commit
24:56
to, like, yeah, I'll let you guys have a shot on that.
24:59
And then, you know, you just kind of follow up, but,
25:03
you know, again that the key to it is asking the questions,
25:08
and finding, you know, because like I said, if you're like,
25:11
we have these great agent on camera videos and, you know,
25:15
you would just love them and they're like,
25:17
I will never in a million years get in front of a camera body.
25:19
You're not going to that has zero value.
25:22
You just pitch something that they hate that maybe.
25:25
So you have to know what they want.
25:28
What they what they're meaning.
25:29
And then figure out what you have fits their needs.
25:33
That's.
25:34
And, you know, can I make a quick point on top of that too?
25:37
Yeah. Yeah.
25:37
Just just for anybody listening because I think, one thing that Chris
25:42
and I probably have both experienced over
25:43
our careers is, is I've been through sales trainings to where they say,
25:47
you know, with what Chris just said, like when you call someone, say, did I catch
25:50
you had a good time.
25:52
But they that's like not in their model or like you never do that
25:55
because you're giving them and you're doing this.
25:57
So just just keep an open mind when you're looking out there,
26:00
you know, hopefully you're listening to this podcast, get some some advice
26:03
on, you know, some selling techniques and everything for your clients.
26:06
If you're looking elsewhere, just keep that in mind is that there are different
26:10
models out there for sales.
26:13
So that doesn't
26:14
mean that that one is is right.
26:17
I think that our method fits our industry a lot better than the other methods,
26:22
because the high pressure sales is, is good for certain things, you know,
26:26
and that's not something that,
26:28
you know, me personally or I think any of us,
26:30
but having an interest in being in that area.
26:32
But I just wanted to address that because I've had people ask that before.
26:35
It's just like, well, aren't you giving them an option to say no?
26:39
And it's like, yeah, now you know,
26:42
and in some cases that's not a bad thing.
26:45
So I just wanted to point that out
26:47
just in case there's some, some confusion out there.
26:49
That's a question I've gotten a couple times.
26:51
Well, it ties directly into a phrase.
26:53
I might have heard this from one of you,
26:55
but the phrase is this you can't sell a salesperson.
26:59
And that's who our clients are.
27:01
They're salespeople.
27:02
Now, I said that to one realtor, and if you actually got
27:06
a little offended, he's like, I am not a salesperson, I am a consultant.
27:10
I'm like,
27:12
okay, that's that's fair because that's what we're trying to present ourselves,
27:15
as, you know, also is that we're not trying to sell you.
27:19
We're trying to be part of your team and consult with you and,
27:22
you know, find the right tools for what you're trying to accomplish.
27:25
So I'm like, okay, that that's that's fair.
27:27
But I, I've actually said that and shared that in presentations,
27:31
you know, brokerage presentations before where I just tell them, look,
27:36
I can tell you what we do,
27:37
but I'm not going to try and sell you because I can't sell a salesperson.
27:41
And nine times out of ten,
27:42
I usually get some laughs out of that because they get it right.
27:46
We're we're all in the same field
27:48
of trying to find solutions to people's needs.
27:51
And yeah, there are different techniques and methods and whatnot, but
27:55
I find trying to just,
27:58
you know, have some levity
28:00
and have some fun with it and be real with people kind of breaks that ice.
28:03
And it's like, okay, yeah, we all know what we're doing here.
28:09
Yeah.
28:09
I just that made me think of that phrase.
28:11
I would even take it a step further, because I think you can, in theory,
28:15
you know, you can say, sell a salesperson.
28:18
I think you can't trick a salesperson. Yeah.
28:21
Knowing that they're being sold to, you know, on that side of the fence.
28:25
But there are times, you know, that I get phone calls
28:28
all the time, you know, for either within the business or personal,
28:32
you know, where someone's, like, trying to sell you whatever it is.
28:36
And I will tell you, there's times where, you know,
28:39
I know they're selling to me, but there's some times
28:41
where I shut down because it's like, hey, you know,
28:44
you're not you're not approaching this in the right way.
28:46
And there's other times where they, they kind of
28:47
bring me in and, you know, it's like, oh, okay.
28:49
Yeah, I'm gonna listen to it because.
28:51
Because, I mean, you're giving me value.
28:53
You're doing what?
28:54
You know, you're trying to figure out worth what you have.
28:57
If it's a solution for what I need, just like we do with our clients.
28:59
So I've, I've bought things several times before because I had an open mind
29:05
and that they approached me in a good way, and it was actually a good fit for,
29:08
for something for me.
29:09
So I think that's just something to keep in mind too, is, is, you know, sales.
29:14
I know that that terminology gets thrown around
29:16
and people have a negative stigma with it, but it's actually a good thing,
29:20
you know, if you have the right, the right workflow,
29:23
not only for us but for our clients, it's a good thing.
29:26
Chris, would you have any advice for somebody
29:28
you know, see, somebody is an introverted type of personality.
29:31
And they really they get a lot of anxiety over this whole subject of sales.
29:36
They love what they do.
29:37
They love, you know, the real estate media that they're shooting.
29:39
And they really do want to see their business grow.
29:42
But do you have any practical tips for like, say, an introverted personality
29:46
on on how they get approaches to get over that anxiety?
29:50
Yeah.
29:50
I mean, first of all, I don't know if you're ever going to get get over it.
29:53
You have to power through it.
29:55
Okay. Tell you the truth.
29:56
I mean, there's times where I make it like we're.
29:58
I'll make phone calls and I get nervous.
30:01
And and again, like you.
30:02
Chris.
30:03
Yeah. Yeah. You get nervous? Yeah. For sure.
30:06
You know, it's like,
30:07
okay, I gotta make this, and I have to like,
30:09
I have just get out of my head a little bit.
30:11
But then.
30:11
But the reality of it is the big thing I and that I,
30:14
I like to approach on something like that is, is less along the lines of like,
30:18
Will you get rejected because you're going,
30:22
and it's more along the lines of two things.
30:24
One, that rejection, unless you do something, you know,
30:28
crazy that rejection is not about you, it's about their needs.
30:32
And so they don't need you right now so you have a chance of getting rejected.
30:37
But the biggest thing is, is if you don't make that phone call,
30:42
what do you gain by not making that phone call?
30:45
You gain nothing.
30:47
If you make that phone call and you fail,
30:50
what do you gain?
30:51
You gain nothing. So you lost nothing as well.
30:54
So making the phone call gives you the chance to win that opportunity.
31:00
Not making the phone call.
31:02
Get guarantees you will not.
31:04
So the worst case scenario is if you're making a phone call
31:08
and you strike out, you lost absolutely nothing.
31:12
You know, other than
31:15
30s of your time, two minutes of your time, you know, that sort of thing.
31:19
So I would just go into what that attitude, like, what do I have to lose?
31:22
I have to lose that,
31:24
and then understand that if they do turn you
31:28
down, it's, it's more their situation less you,
31:33
and then finally understand that this business is a numbers game.
31:37
Okay?
31:37
Because obviously, you know, you look at like you look at what we do,
31:41
you know, market share.
31:42
I mean, there's and some of the works where you're looking at,
31:46
you know, if we were looking at numbers yesterday, Steve and I were and,
31:50
you know, my market,
31:52
in nine months, there were 30,000 listings.
31:55
So I was kind of like, I can't shoot all 30,000 list.
31:59
And so, you know, what if I don't if I don't, if I strike out
32:02
with this person, there's plenty of other, agents out there that I can click with
32:07
or find that has a need or whatever the case may be, and I'll find them.
32:12
There's plenty to go around.
32:14
It's fine. And just.
32:15
You just just keep trying.
32:17
Keep plugging along.
32:19
Steve something Chris
32:21
and he mentioned phone call specifically.
32:24
What what are your thoughts on phone calls
32:27
versus, say, emails or,
32:30
other digital ways of reaching out to people?
32:33
Is there one
32:34
that's better than the other, or is it more of a personality type of thing?
32:38
I, I think all of them are important.
32:41
Because if you do all phone calls, then you're not going to be
32:45
as effective as you were if you did a mix of other, other things.
32:48
Same thing with email or anything like that.
32:50
So I don't think it's a, you know, one size fits all on that side of
32:54
a side of the, the equation.
32:57
I do think that in general, though, you don't want to fall back
33:00
to doing the emails because it's an easier,
33:02
no contact way and and get a hold of people. Yeah.
33:05
The email should supplement
33:07
everything else that you're doing and not be, you know, a dedicated.
33:11
That's a trap that I think some people fall into.
33:13
It's like, hey, I'm nervous
33:14
to pick up the call at the phone and I call this person,
33:17
so I'm going to send an email, you know, so.
33:19
Right. Don't don't go into it with that approach.
33:22
But you also can't just do one thing and, and expect to get the same results
33:26
as having a variety of contacts out there because our our method,
33:30
what's brought us the most success is just being consistent.
33:33
Is the biggest thing.
33:35
So like Chris said, you're not going to win every, every person on, on, on a phone
33:39
call on the first phone call especially, it could take time and everything else.
33:43
So one thing that we've done that that really shapes the business is always
33:48
have that next contact schedule for, for everybody.
33:52
And that can vary.
33:53
You know, if you call somebody today and there's some interest there,
33:57
but they're there, you know, there's no need right now.
33:59
So, you say you follow up and say, hey, I'm going to send you some information
34:03
and I'll reach back out next week.
34:05
You know, just, to make sure you got everything.
34:07
So if you have any questions and kind of go from there.
34:09
So that could be the next step.
34:11
Sometimes it could be, hey, I'm using xyz for my media
34:15
and I'm extremely happy with everything.
34:17
I don't want to switch. I'm not interested.
34:20
You can still have a next point.
34:22
You can say,
34:22
Chris and I were just talking about this the other day too, but you could say,
34:25
hey, I get it.
34:26
You know, I, I understand that I'd love to be.
34:29
I'd love to send you some information.
34:30
So just in case things change or if you ever need to fill in
34:33
or there's a service maybe that they don't help you with or they can offer
34:37
and then you can push that that next contact,
34:39
you know, three months down the road, six months down the road.
34:41
It doesn't have to be in the next couple days.
34:44
But I think that's probably the most important thing,
34:47
is just having that consistent follow through.
34:50
Because if you call 100 people today and they, you know, let's say
34:53
most of them say no,
34:55
and that's the last contact you have with them,
34:57
you're not going to get those people.
34:59
But if you continue to follow up, you know, maybe you convert
35:02
2% right off the bat, you know, out of 100 phone calls
35:05
and you get two new clients, that's great.
35:07
But then the other 98, if you keep that conversation
35:10
going over the next year, you might close 50 of them.
35:13
You know, it's just it's just a consistency game on that side of things.
35:16
Right.
35:17
Staying consistent with the touch points but mixing up the methods
35:20
of those touch points I would say you just want to
35:23
you want to be consistent without being annoying.
35:25
That's that's the line that you want to bounce on that kind of thing.
35:28
So I'm not saying call them every day for the next two weeks and be like,
35:31
what about now?
35:32
What about yeah,
35:33
you know, it's just to have that next step out there and use judgment.
35:36
You know, when you talk to somebody, you get an idea of what
35:39
the appropriate follow up will be, because you don't want it to be too far out,
35:43
but you don't want it to be too soon either, or too common.
35:46
So you kind of have to use your judgment on that.
35:49
And I think that's something that kind of sharpens as you go.
35:51
You get a little bit more of a, sense on that
35:54
as far as when the next step would be the most appropriate,
35:58
having some sort of system in place to, to help you keep track of those,
36:02
those follow ups is, is really a good idea, you know, some sort of CRM or,
36:06
or something where it's the term I heard early in
36:09
my career was like a tickler file.
36:11
So, you know, every day
36:12
you're bringing up a new file and what do I have to do today?
36:16
And, and setting that ahead of time so that you're staying.
36:19
Yeah. Consistent with, with the contacts.
36:23
I can't help but think of mixing up the methods of reaching out to people as well.
36:26
From a videographer standpoint, one of the things that we do is
36:33
no shot that we
36:34
take should be the same type of shot back to back.
36:37
Like, say, we're doing a push.
36:39
Okay, I'm going out of sales mode now in the videographer mode,
36:42
if if we have a push into a room, we shouldn't have two pushes in a row.
36:48
You know, just keep things fresh, keep things, you
36:50
know, different and perspectives changing.
36:54
And it keeps the person engaged and interested.
36:56
So yeah, maybe it's the Instagram method.
36:59
Maybe it's an email, maybe it's a phone call, maybe it's a coffee invite mix up
37:04
and just be consistent in in the contacts.
37:08
But be present in your market and be consistent in your market.
37:12
And listen to what the clients say to you.
37:14
You know, that's that's one thing.
37:16
Yeah. For example, we get this a lot.
37:18
You'll call somebody, they don't answer, it goes to voicemail
37:21
and it says, hey, for a faster response, text me. Yes.
37:24
They just gave you permission to text him.
37:26
And they just said,
37:27
you know, it's better for me if you text me, you know, on that side of things.
37:30
So, so also do that like we we got out, you know, some some organizations they're,
37:35
they're kind of driven as far as like you must do, you know 50 calls of that.
37:39
You must do this and this and this.
37:41
We've gotten out of that and we've, we've kind of leaned into our people
37:44
strengths, you know, on what they do best, what they're what they're,
37:47
you know, comfortable with. And there's still some requirements.
37:50
It's not the wild, wild West on that side of things, but it is,
37:55
it is something that you'll be a lot more effective on because,
37:57
you know, in past experiences I've been in that, that see,
38:01
and it's like, hey, I know if I text so-and-so, I'll get a response,
38:05
but I have to get these 50 calls in, so I'm going to call them instead.
38:08
And so you're basically doing an activity just to do an activity and not actually
38:12
intentionally doing something that's going to bring value to them.
38:16
And then also yourself.
38:18
Chris, you smirked a little. There.
38:21
Well, I just yeah.
38:22
So, I've seen I've seen businesses where it is like Steve
38:25
said, it's basically like you have these these activities
38:29
and that goes back to the like, like 1970s era activity based management.
38:34
Or it's like for every 100 calls you get, you're going to get ten appointments.
38:37
For every ten appointment, you're going to get two sales and and so make 200
38:41
appointments, you get four sales and they're activities.
38:44
They will the only thing that you can directly control.
38:47
So there's some validity to that.
38:50
So again that was back in the 70s when people you know,
38:54
you could sell to people the old fashioned term,
38:59
but yeah, the, the reality of it is, is I, you know, I say call
39:02
because my first point of contact typically is going to be a phone call.
39:06
Because it's just like the phone call is the the easiest way to
39:12
go from A to Z.
39:15
And it's such an that like texts
39:17
and emails can have breaks and things along those lines.
39:21
But to Steve's point,
39:23
if somebody says for fast response, text me, they're basically saying,
39:28
I want you to text me, don't leave me a voicemail.
39:31
So I don't leave them a voicemail.
39:33
I send them a text.
39:36
So you need to kind of go off people strikes and things like that.
39:38
But, and then and then. Yeah.
39:41
And then I was the, the varying things up, you know, even like I agree with Steve,
39:45
very up phone calls, text, emails,
39:48
social media, whatever the case may be.
39:51
That's great.
39:53
And I would, I would definitely shy away like Steve talks about emails,
39:56
emails are easy, but it's kind of funny because I get a lot of emails
40:00
and, I open up an email, I say just following up on it.
40:05
I stop right there because it's like, so basically you're saying
40:08
you sent me an email and I didn't respond, and now you're
40:13
just following up on an email that I didn't respond to.
40:16
And it's like, if you can't put more effort into just obviously just,
40:20
you know,
40:21
flinging out hundreds of emails, I'm not going to look at you.
40:24
And I literally like, I read that I'm just following up on
40:27
and that's as far as I read that email.
40:31
So, you know,
40:32
you have to utilize them in different ways.
40:35
You know, like, if you phone, if you call somebody, you know, leave a message,
40:39
maybe you send them an email, you know, that day or day later
40:42
or whatever to kind of say, hey, yeah, I left you a message.
40:45
Here's some weather information, whatever the case may be.
40:49
Especially with with existing clients, you definitely mix that message up.
40:53
You know, it's like,
40:54
however often you want to contact them, you know, don't call them every time.
40:58
Don't text them all the time, don't email somebody.
41:00
But kind of put some variety in there to, mix it up for sure.
41:05
And I think that's that's important too.
41:07
Is that outreach regardless whether it's call, text, email,
41:11
you know, in-person, whatever the case is, I think that one of the big takeaways
41:15
for anybody that's that's trying to get sales going in their company
41:19
is stop thinking about yourself and think about them.
41:23
So what value can you add to their life?
41:26
You know, instead of saying, hey, I want, you know,
41:29
I want to meet to discuss these things or something like that.
41:32
Try, try to flip the script, you know, and saying like, what can I
41:36
put in this message or this phone call or whatever the case is like what
41:40
focus on the benefits and the value that come from it
41:43
that you can offer them versus asking them to give up their time
41:48
for something they don't even know what that means for them at that point.
41:51
So if you can, if you can think of that, and it's simple, just kind of kind of
41:56
put yourself in that and that in those shoes, you know,
41:58
when you're crafting a message or something like that,
42:01
if I got this message, would I respond to it?
42:04
You know, there's a there's a piqued my interest
42:06
as I do this and, and if you could say yes.
42:08
And that's a strong message to send out to everybody.
42:12
One thing that that I've done, guys that we haven't touched on
42:15
and I don't know that I can show any like hard proof or results of the effect
42:21
on the effectiveness of this, but it ties into being genuine with people,
42:26
is connecting with clients on social media or prospective clients.
42:30
And for me, social media.
42:32
Yes, it can be a business tool, but
42:36
honestly, I'm sharing about stuff that I'm enjoying personally.
42:39
Hobbies or family activities or, you know, things like that,
42:43
and just getting to know people's
42:46
like, I was going to say real lives.
42:48
Business is real life.
42:49
But the non-business part of their their life, right?
42:52
And getting to know them as people and leaving a comment or a like
42:57
and just showing that you're present and interested in them as people as well.
43:01
And that can help build rapport.
43:03
So I'm eventually maybe they become a client,
43:07
but I'm getting to know them as a person first.
43:10
Yeah, I think that goes that follows that that the process or the thought,
43:15
you know, is that they may not have a need when you 1st May contact
43:19
or they first hear about you, you know, but the more you do that, the more you do.
43:24
You know, in business outreach and everything.
43:25
But even on the social side, you know, personal outreach, if you're following
43:29
their business page, congratulate them on a listing, you know, things like that.
43:34
The more you can stay in it right to their side
43:37
and right in front of them on that side of things.
43:39
When they then that that switch happens and also they need to meet,
43:43
they have a need at that point.
43:45
So maybe their, their photographer, you know, that they were using
43:48
stop doing it because they're doing something else now.
43:50
Or they made a mad somehow because they didn't show up to an appointment.
43:54
You know, all these things that we hear about in in an industry.
43:56
But the second that happens, if the first thing they think of is
44:00
I need to get a hold of Craig to come out and and do this now, you know, that's
44:04
that's the goal.
44:05
You know, if you can do that then long term
44:08
and it's not by long term your but your business will benefit.
44:12
So much from that because you're going to be
44:14
the first person that everybody thinks of.
44:16
It's like the real world.
44:17
So essentially so, you know, I like that if I think of it
44:21
and you're the first person on the list, they're going to go with you a lot more,
44:24
you know, likely than the person that's ten down.
44:27
I like that, Steve, real life SEO
44:31
that and I would say too, along those lines,
44:35
that's also a great tool with regards to existing clients.
44:39
Because the reality of it is, you know,
44:43
if if people are like, all I care about is price
44:46
or all I care about is this or all I care about is that then someone's
44:50
going to come along and be like, okay, I can I can be cheaper than this guy.
44:54
Right?
44:55
But when you build that relationship, and,
44:59
you know, you get to know these people and these people
45:02
genuinely feel like, you have their back.
45:06
That's going to change things, and that's going to make it to the point where,
45:11
someone might come along and say, hey, I'll give you this media for $50 less.
45:15
And so like, yeah, but I like Chris, I don't know if I like you.
45:20
And so that, that, you know, that money.
45:22
Now there's there are some rumors out there, you know, that that are $50.
45:26
Oh, great.
45:26
And you know, again now it's down to the bottom.
45:30
But but I would I would definitely say like
45:34
I use relationship selling.
45:36
And actually Steve mentioned this a while ago.
45:38
But you know, somebody somebody you call it somebody and they're like,
45:41
you know, I use this competitor and I love them.
45:44
And I've been with them for five years and and I'm never going to go anywhere.
45:47
My typical response is I you know, I respect that.
45:51
Because in all honesty, you know, I know we're talking to a lot of people
45:54
that might actually be, you know, both the salesperson and the photographer.
45:58
I'm not I don't do
45:59
the only thing I do in this company is I build relationships with my clients.
46:03
And so I literally will say that to people I like, like my my sole responsibility
46:08
is building that relationship.
46:09
So I, I respect a solid relationship.
46:12
And then that's where, you know, like he mentioned before again,
46:16
you know, let me let me be your fallback
46:18
if they go on vacation, if they can't handle something, whatever.
46:21
But it's the same way if somebody if your competitors call your clients up,
46:28
and they reach out your clients, very likely if you've built that
46:30
relationship, your clients are going to say that to your competitors.
46:33
They're going to say, yeah, we use wow video tours
46:36
And and I love them, and I'm never going to go anywhere
46:39
because of the relationship, not necessarily because,
46:42
you know, okay, I can give you a free shoot.
46:46
You know, and then all of a sudden that,
46:48
you know, they're like, well, yeah, you can give me that free shoot, but,
46:52
I, I'm, I still work with so-and-so, so, so that,
46:56
has a limited value to it.
46:58
If you've built that relationship and that relationship is true, it's excellent.
47:03
Excellent, guys.
47:05
Thank you so much. I thank you.
47:08
I think that, gives a good summary of how how you can develop
47:12
business without selling.
47:15
And just appreciate the real life examples.
47:17
So, yeah, our guests again, Steve Musser and Chris Voge from Wow video tours.
47:22
Gentlemen. Appreciate you.
47:23
Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
47:27
All right.
47:27
Well, guys, hopefully you found some value in that.
47:29
If you have some, some tips and tricks and things that have worked
47:33
well in your business, feel free to leave it in a comment.
47:36
Here on the YouTube channel.
47:38
Or you can drop us an email as well. Spiro.
47:41
Hello@spiro.media and we would love to hear from you.
47:45
So, yeah, just real life examples
47:49
of how you can sell without selling and that it works.
47:52
People buy from people they know, like and trust
47:54
and just takes time to develop those relationships.
47:57
But that's what it's all about.
47:58
So make sure you take some time this week to be thankful for the blessings.
48:02
Make sure you take some time to breathe.
48:05
That's what Spiro means breath.
48:07
And next week we're going to have, Shannon Landers on from Spiro.
48:11
Going over the, third quarter,
48:14
review and also a fourth quarter forecast.
48:17
So that's coming up next week.
48:18
Appreciate you.
48:19
Have a fantastic week. Take care.