Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / Evening With A Legend: Ben Keating

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Evening With A Legend: Ben Keating · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

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Evening with the Legend is a series of presentations exclusive to
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Legends of the Famous 24 Hours of Le Mans, giving us an opportunity
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to bring a piece of Le Mans to you.
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By sharing stories and highlights of the big event, you get a chance
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to become part of the Legend of Le Mans, with guests from different
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eras of over 100 years of racing.
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Ben Keating is an American racing driver and business owner
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operating out of Victoria, Texas.
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He is the owner of 28 automotive dealerships across Texas as
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part of the Keating Auto Group.
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Since starting auto racing in 2006, he has competed in many auto races
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worldwide, including the 24 Hours of Le Mans, the 24 Hours of Daytona, the
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12 Hours of Sebring, and most recently the World Endurance Championship.
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He has competed in the 24 Hours of Le Mans nine times with two wins under
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his belt, one with Aston Martin and most recently with Team Corvette.
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He is the only American driver to have won multiple world championships.
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Ben Keating began racing in 2006 after receiving a weekend track driving course
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as a Christmas present from his wife.
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This Evening with a Legend was hosted by Ruben Sanchez of the ACO USA.
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I would like to extend a warm welcome to all the ACO members
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and our esteemed guests from the Corvette Club to join us tonight.
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Additionally, I'm thrilled to introduce our special guest for the evening, Ben
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Keating, the factory Corvette driver for the number 33 car for the WEC
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in the World Endurance Championship.
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Tonight he joins us to share the remarkable victory at the
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prestigious 100th anniversary of Le Mans, as well as securing already
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the World Endurance Championship.
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My first question, Ben.
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All right.
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This was your first time at Le Mans with Corvette.
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Can you share the differences between Corvette and your previous teams?
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I mean, what's unique about Corvette compared to the other teams?
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How do they prepare, et cetera?
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This was my ninth year to do the 24 Hours of Le Mans and in eight different cars.
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I think the only person who has matched my number of cars has been Rob Belth.
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I'm not a hundred percent sure on that, but I've driven almost everything.
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You know, as you compare the Dodge Viper to the Ferrari 488, the Ford GT, the
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Porsche RSR, the Aston Martin, and now the Corvette, clearly different cars
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perform better at different tracks.
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What I would say about the Corvette is it is.
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Maybe the most well rounded car that I've ever driven in comparison.
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So the one Lamar last year, also driving the Aston Martin, the
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Aston Martin might have been the easiest car at Lamar specifically.
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And I think that was because the long wheelbase really made it smooth and
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easy around the high speed corners.
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But the Aston Martin was terrible at Portimao, which is
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this tight and twisty track.
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What I really love about the Corvette, it's incredibly strong at Le Mans, but
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it's pretty doggone good everywhere.
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That's what you need in terms of winning a championship.
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We were lucky enough to win the championship last year with the Aston
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Martin, but it wasn't easy because it wasn't a great car at every single
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track, whereas In the Corvette, you know, coming in that you have a
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decent chance at every single track.
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Yeah.
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You asked about the team and what it was like going in with this Corvette racing
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factory team that's been running pro all these years, it's hard to underestimate.
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The value of that, even though, you know, we had a damper failure at the
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beginning of the race, went two laps down.
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The beauty of that is we changed the damper in 10 minutes.
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I think most other teams would have gone down three or four laps and would
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have been completely out of the race.
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Every pit stop.
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As a driver, I come in and I know that if I hit my marks, if I charge into
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the pit lane and I stop on the line on the board, if I do my job well, I know
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we're going to gain positions in the pits every time we come in for a stop
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because the team is just that good.
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And it's so nice to have that much confidence in the guys you're driving for.
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And I'll say these guys are more serious than Any other team I've ever raced for.
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And I appreciate that I've been racing in GTM.
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Most of the teams I've been racing for, I've been the customer.
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So I'm the guy paying the bills.
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I'm the guy that they're all catering to.
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So when I made a mistake, the response has usually been, it's going to be okay.
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We're going to overcome it.
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It's going to be okay.
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You know, no big deal.
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With these guys, when I make a mistake, they're all up in my business.
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They're all after me.
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I made a joke out of it actually, after the first couple of races, because I had
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a long driver change at one of the races and they were ready to drop the car and
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ready for us to go and I wasn't across the line yet, I cost us two seconds in a
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pit stop and the pit crew guys were in my face, upset that I cost them two seconds.
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On their stock and I'm making them look bad.
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I appreciate that competitive nature.
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I appreciate the fact that everybody wants to be the best at their job.
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It just doesn't exist like that at most of the other teams.
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You know, the old adage, you don't win LeMans, LeMans chooses its winner.
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Arriving at Le Mans, you know, winning at Sebring, you did it as well in
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Portimao, and then Spa, second place.
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I mean, the team had to have come in at a pretty confident level.
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I know you had some issues in the race, you had some issues in qualifying
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that I want to address here shortly, but what was the mood before Le Mans?
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Did you feel we got a really strong opportunity?
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I know you said before that it's a crapshoot, that you never
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know what's going to happen.
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I strongly believe that every car in a 24 hour race is a long shot.
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Anything can happen.
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An LMP2 car can lose their mind for a split second and run over you
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and take you out and it's all over.
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Has nothing to do with you.
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It seems like Lamont chooses you.
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I'm going to go back to Spa.
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I was the only GT driver who chose to start the race on rain tires.
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It was a bad decision.
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Everybody else was correct, except for me.
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And because I was losing so much time on the rain tires, because we had to come in
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for an extra stop, we went down a lap and we seemed to be out of the race for Spa.
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The way that all worked out extremely lucky got our lap back.
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We got the wave buyer, the pass around, which is this new thing for the W.
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E.
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C.
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for this year.
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We got that 3 times at spa and the way we ended up being able to get 2nd place.
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Was just miraculous.
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It almost felt like we were chosen in that situation as well.
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Clearly going into the race, we had to be one of the favorites because
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we were leading the championship.
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We'd gotten first place, first place, second place.
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Everyone was talking to us.
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Like we were one of the favorites.
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We felt like one of the favorites, but I won't allow anybody to feel
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that You can't let down your guard.
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You briefly touched on it.
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Nico let down his guard and had a big wreck right before qualifying.
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The team had to rebuild the car.
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We only got out to get two laps in in qualifying.
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It's really hard when you have co drivers named Nico and Nikki.
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One of the best performances of the weekend was Nikki driving a car that had
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a terrible setup on it and putting it within HyperPole that was just miraculous
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that we even made it into qualifying.
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Then I had the honor this first time in the history of the race
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that they required the bronze rated driver to qualify and hyperpole.
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I like the car set up differently than Nico and Nikki.
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The team made a bunch of changes to the car specifically for me
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for qualifying and the car was.
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Unbelievable, really strong.
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And I ended up doing three laps in qualifying that would have been the poll.
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And I think I ended up being something like I get the poll by 1.
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3 seconds.
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So we start the race in front.
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We're racing in P1, 90 minutes in, Nicky comes on the radio
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and says, we've got a problem.
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The car is super difficult to drive.
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I don't know what's broken, but something's wrong.
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So we come in for an unexpected pit stop.
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I don't know what's going on.
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I'm just standing in the garage, watching the guys, the guy on the front, right?
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Just starts yelling broken, broken, broken.
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They put it on skates.
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They roll it in.
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They change the front right damper 10 minutes to change the damper.
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We go down for two laps.
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If you followed the 24 hours of Lamar at all over the last hundred
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years, you know that you don't get the opportunity to make up.
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When you're down two laps in the history of the race, it doesn't happen this year.
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For the first time ever, they've introduced this safety car and
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this pass around the IMSA dicing of turning wet into a little bit of IMSA,
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which I'm not a huge fan of, even though I greatly benefited from it.
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Because we had all been in the race for so many years, everybody in the team, the
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announcers on the television, everybody on the team, the drivers, the engineers,
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everybody felt like our race is over.
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Our day is done.
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You just don't get the opportunity to come back when you're two laps down.
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Then we had the first safety car right as the big rain came down.
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That was a pivotal moment for me in the race, but what a lot of people
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don't realize it was a big moment for us because we came in early, we
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put rain tires on, we went back out.
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Then the safety car came out, we had made the right call and we
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were going to get our lap back.
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We were going to get one of our laps back.
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I don't think anybody realizes this other than the people who are care about it.
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But when you come in for a pit stop, they're not supposed to let you out at
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the end of pit lane until the whole line of cars has passed our leader pitted.
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So we were going to have the leader behind us and we were going to get our lap back.
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Unfortunately, we had a Ferrari in front of us that chose to stay out on slicks.
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He could not keep the pace of the safety car.
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And so the guy at the end of pit lane thought that the line
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of cars had already passed.
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They let all the leaders out.
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And so the leaders ended up getting in front of us because the Ferrari in front
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of us couldn't keep the pace car pace.
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And so we ended up not getting our lap back, even though we argued with
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the race director for an hour and a half while we were under safety car.
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They did not correct it.
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We did not get our lap back.
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And then I was just angry.
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Then I thought, okay, not only did we have this bad luck, but now we
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got screwed by the race director.
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And I thought our race is really over now.
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I had to go back and watch the race to see really what happened.
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Cause I didn't really understand it.
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The fact is that we ended up getting one lap back under safety car because
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of the new rule, partly because Nico ran to the front and got in front of
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the leader, partly because we were lucky that the leader was behind us
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at that moment in time, the way the stints and strategy were working out.
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But we got one lap back that way, and then it's easy to say
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that we drove the other lap back.
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But as I've watched the race, what I now realize is that.
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Every single car in the race had a problem of some sort during the race, one by one.
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So out of 21 GT cars that started the race, only nine GT cars finished.
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That may not be unusual in the older races of Le Mans.
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With the modern day race cars, that is really unusual.
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There was a really high attrition rate, and even the cars that finished One by
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one, every single one of the cars had a problem of some sort, and that is
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really what allowed us to drive back to the lead, and it definitely feels
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like somewhere in the universe, Le Mans chose us, definitely feels that way.
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It felt that way last year.
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It definitely feels that way this year, more than any other time.
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I don't understand how we had the opportunity to win.
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Any other way than if we were just chosen.
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Like you pointed out, you were down to 21st by the six hour mark.
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Then I think Nico got you back up to 12 within the seventh
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hour with that one unlapping.
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I know you had the unfortunate with the pace card.
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It is what it is, but it doesn't matter because the result
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was we wanted anyway, right?
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But I wanted to get back to you when you mentioned qualifying, because
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I remember an interview you did with the WEC, where the car was
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six seconds a lap off the pace.
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And that's an eternity in racing when we're talking a tenth of a second.
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Sure.
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What the hell did they do to get that car that you got on the pole by a second?
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I mean, cause that's a huge spread.
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It's three different things.
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Nobody talks about the fact that all the cars play major games
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on performance until race day.
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Nobody wants to look too fast because they're afraid you.
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They're going to get slowed down.
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You know, if you don't play the game, then you're not in the game.
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Some of it is us playing the game, just like everybody else is playing the game.
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But I don't know why this car is different than last year's car.
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It's a different chassis.
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Everything should be set up the exact same.
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They're on the same setup pad, the same jig, everything should be identical.
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I can't tell you why, but it's not.
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And a big part of our issues all week long is that.
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The team just wasn't willing to admit that the car was different
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and needed something else.
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They were so committed to, we were leading the race when we got
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knocked out of last year's race.
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We've got a setup that everybody loved.
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You are going to love it.
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I promise.
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They were so committed to the setup that they ran last year
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that they were very slow.
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to move away from it.
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And the third thing, which is really significant, is GM has
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what they call a DIL simulator.
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They call it the Driver in Loop Simulator.
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That's actually where I spent all day today in North Carolina
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at the GM DIL preparing for Fuji, which is our next race.
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But we spent a lot of time preparing for Le Mans in the sim.
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What we noticed is that I like a car with a much more
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stable rear than my co drivers.
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My co drivers want a much more stable front.
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I believe that it is the fact that they are all left foot breakers and they're
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all on both pedals the whole time.
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hustling the car around a corner, they are carrying much more speed into the corner
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and trail braking and doing those types of things as they go around and they're
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instantaneously in between the pedals.
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I am still a right foot breaker, which means I have more time as I transition
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between the pedals and it also means that I'm still comfortable trail braking,
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just not as much as what they are doing.
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I like to get on the throttle earlier than they do, and I like a more confident rear.
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And driving on the Sim with my co drivers at the same time, it became really clear
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that I just like a more confident rear.
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One of the really nice things about the C8R GTE Corvette Is
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that it's an easy, simple, quick change to change the rear bar.
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What we did for qualifying and for the race is that every time I got in
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the car, they would go completely soft on the rear bar for me and midway on
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the rear bar for my co drivers, that was a significant change in terms of
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the handling in the car, but it was a really big change for me in qualifying.
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We were working on the car so much before we got to qualifying that we
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weren't really happy with it yet.
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And so not only did we make a big step in the setup of the car overall, but
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they also customized it for me, having it much more confidence in the rear.
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And golly, when I qualified in that car, it was the best car
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I'd ever driven at Le Mans.
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It was so easy to do an amazing lap.
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A second lead on qualifying.
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I mean, that's pretty unheard of.
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So you definitely came alive.
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That's for sure.
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Move forward.
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I know you weren't expected to drive at night.
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I like driving at the rain, but I guess I'm a little bit crazy.
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You did three stints at night in the rain.
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I mean, you definitely brought back that deficit you had.
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Throughout my history at Le Mans, prior to this year, you
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can't make up any lost time.
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In GTM, you got one bronze, one silver, and one pro.
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And everybody has to do a minimum of six hours in the car.
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My philosophy has always been if I'm one second a lap slower in the rain or
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one second a lap slower at night, then I shouldn't drive in those conditions
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because I don't want to give up any time that I don't have to give up.
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The plan was for me to not drive in rain and to not drive at night.
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One of the things that I bring to the table is that I'm comfortable
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driving for a really long period of time, especially at Le Mans.
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If they would allow me to do my whole six hours at once, I would do it.
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I'm really comfortable going for a long period of time.
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So after we put the new damper on the car, it was kind of like,
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okay, we're running in 21st place.
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We're down two laps.
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They put me in the car coming out of the garage.
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It kind of felt like, okay, this race is over.
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Let's just put Ben in the car, let him get his time knocked out.
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And so I went out and my first stint was great.
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It was daylight.
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Everything was comfy.
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Halfway through my second stint, I came out of Arnage, which is
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the slowest corner on the track.
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You're flat out all the way up into the Porsche curves.
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You're in sixth gear where you turn into the Porsche curves is where you
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transition from being on public road to being on the permanent track.
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Normally you would just barely break downshift one time and turn in.
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I'm going to guess that our minimum speed in that corner is about 150 miles an hour.
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I'm in sixth gear flat out down that straightaway right to the point where I
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should be breaking and downshifting and turning in and I hit a wall of water.
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One of the things that made Le Mans so treacherous this year is that
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You had a lot of rain, but it was a big heavy rain cloud over one
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corner over one section of the track.
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It would be over one chicane.
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And so I pull up into this area where it's suddenly downpouring.
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I think I literally prayed out loud.
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It may be the only time I've ever prayed out loud in a car.
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And I made the decision not to turn.
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I made the decision to stay on the public road, kept it in the crown of the
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road, hopefully having less water there, slowed it down slowly, slowed it down in
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a straight line, whipped it around once I got stopped, came back and tiptoed
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on slicks around the Porsche curves.
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I came on the radio and I said, guys, I'm giving up way too much time.
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We need rain tires on the car.
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I feel like I'm costing the team so much time because I'm
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looking at the Delta on the dash.
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And I've realized that I've just cost us 20 seconds, which is an eternity.
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I'm feeling guilty about the decision that I've made.
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So I come in, I get out of the car, Nico gets in the car on rain tires.
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And I look at the monitor and I watch every car that comes up to that same
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spot has decided to try to make the turn and they're into the wall, one after
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another, just piling into each other.
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I felt so guilty when I was in the car, it turned out to be a genius decision
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because we got to finish the race.
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And that is where some of our biggest competitors ended their race
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because they tried to make the turn.
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When I get out of the car, I talked to the strategist and I asked those guys.
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When do you want me back?
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They said, go get sleep, you know, wake up at 4am, get something to eat, get
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dressed and be down in the garage at 5am.
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Interesting fact about Lamar, they always have it.
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Whatever weekend is closest to the summer solstice so that you have
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the maximum amount of daylight.
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It gets daylight around 530 or so it starts to get daylight.
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And so I was expecting to get into the car about 530.
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I went into my hospitality room that I had where all my guests were there.
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And I stood up in front of timing and scoring, and I explained to all of them
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how seventh place would be the maximum result that we could hope for at this
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point, which is all funny now because we won, but tried to sleep through
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the fireworks, which was impossible.
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Sounded like World War three was going on outside my room,
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expecting to wake up at 4 a.
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m.
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At 1 a.
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m.
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They came and woke me up.
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And said we need you in the garage right now.
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Throw on a driving suit, driving clothes, I run down to the
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garage, literally run down there.
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What's happened?
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And they've said, we don't know exactly what's happened,
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but Nico is not feeling good.
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Nico.
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Passed out in the stairwell of hospitality.
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He's sick.
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We've got him at the doctor.
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We don't know what's going on over there.
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All we know is we need you in the car right now.
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And so, Nicky couldn't drive any longer because he just done a triple stint.
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I don't want to drive at night because my 51 year old eyes don't see very well.
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And because my most important job is bringing the car home
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safely, I don't take as much risk.
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So, I'm slower.
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I don't want to give up any time I don't have to give up.
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But you do what you got to do.
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So I get ready, I get in the car and I do a triple stint from 2 a.
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m.
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to 5 a.
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m.
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in the car.
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When you're driving the car, you have no idea what's going
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on on the track around you.
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I've got my engineers telling me what other cars are doing in terms of lap time.
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Now I can look back on it and say, I'm really proud of the job that I did at
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night during that three hour stint.
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And I believe it ended up being one of the reasons why we won the race,
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because most of the other bronzes had the same strategy of waiting
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until daylight to drive in the car.
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On Sunday morning is what we call happy hour.
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That's when the tracks all rubbered in, the temperatures are nice and cool.
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And you can see when all the other bronzes were in the car and still
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had to do the maximum amount of their drive time, we had our fast guys in
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there just killing them to the tune of.
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Anywhere from four to six seconds a lap.
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And when you're doing 15 laps in an hour, that's 90 seconds per hour of track
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time that you're making up on everybody.
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And so I felt like I was able to hold my own during the night and really
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put Nico and Nikki in position to get us back into the lead in the morning.
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Have you driven in Le Mans ever before at night?
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Oh, yeah, plenty of times.
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But as I said before, I've driven a bunch at night.
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I actually like driving at night, but I'm about two seconds a lap slower
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at night than I am in the daylight.
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And always before you don't get the opportunity to make up lost time.
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And so I don't want to give up two seconds a lap if I don't have to.
23:34
From 2019 forward, I've always had the goal of trying to do all
23:41
of my six hours of driving in the last nine hours of the race.
23:44
I want to get in the car around 6am and knock it out on Sunday morning.
23:49
Now with the new safety car rules, it's not that important anymore.
23:53
And what was wrong with Nico?
23:54
He's a 22 year old kid.
23:56
Nico is younger than both of my children.
23:58
He would say, I have no idea what happened because I have a little
24:02
bit more experience than he does.
24:04
I'll say, I think he had what they call a vasovagal response.
24:08
I think he got up out of bed too quickly and fainted.
24:12
I've only had it happen to me one other time.
24:14
And I'll say, it's a scary experience.
24:16
I thought I was having a stroke.
24:18
I think it was a Bezo Bagel response.
24:20
I think as he got up out of bed and started to walk downstairs, he fainted.
24:24
And at 5 a.
24:26
m.
24:26
when they say, okay, pit now, come to the box for a driver change.
24:31
My question was, who's getting in the car?
24:33
When they said Nico was getting in the car, it made me feel good to
24:37
know that we weren't going to have a problem with every driver getting
24:41
their six hours of drive time.
24:42
Because that's always a concern.
24:44
If you have a driver who's sick and can't drive, Then you can be disqualified.
24:48
It all worked out fine.
24:50
He ended up feeling well for the rest of the race.
24:52
And of course, when it came to the end, he felt better than
24:55
he'd ever felt in his life.
24:58
Of course, you know, crossing the line, but those density did also, I mean,
25:02
he really crawled back to the lap down at the, in the moment and ended up
25:06
one lap ahead at the flag, which is.
25:09
At the end, it all depends on where the overall leader finished.
25:13
We had about a two minute lead specifically because the 85 Porsche
25:17
had to do a last minute brake change because I did so much of my drive time.
25:22
I did an hour and a half on Saturday during the daylight before the rain.
25:26
I did three hours at night.
25:28
And so I'd already done four and a half hours of my drive time.
25:31
By the time happy hour started in my experience, whoever drives From 6 a.
25:37
m.
25:37
to 9 a.
25:38
m.
25:38
on Sunday morning is going to put in the fastest laps.
25:41
We put them in position to be able to gobble up all that extra time because
25:46
almost every other car was running their bronze during happy hour.
25:50
Nothing against bronze drivers, I'm the same way.
25:54
But I get into a rhythm.
25:55
If I'm driving a 3 minute 55 second lap, I will tend to just do that same
26:01
thing over and over again like a robot.
26:03
I might not always be able to find that one or two extra seconds of
26:10
speed the way those guys will.
26:12
And I really think that's what happened.
26:14
You know, they got in the car.
26:15
They found that extra time.
26:17
Nico drove the fastest lap of the race of any GT car during that time.
26:22
When the other bronzes were in the car, just kind of putting in their
26:25
time and running their lap time.
26:27
It did make a big difference throughout the last nine hours of the race.
26:31
Well, reflecting back now that you won the championship, and you've been at Le
26:35
Mans for the last eight straight years, what's the greatest accomplishment?
26:39
Would you rather win Le Mans, or would you rather win the World Championship for WEC?
26:44
Having won both, it's hard to answer that.
26:46
If you gave me the choice at the beginning of the year, do you win the Le Mans
26:50
or do you get to win the championship?
26:52
I'd say Le Mans every time.
26:54
In IMSA, if you gave me the choice of winning Daytona or
26:57
winning the championship, I'm going to take Daytona every time.
27:00
It's the big race of the year.
27:02
It's the most historical value.
27:04
Most people remember what happened in the 24 hours of Le Mans.
27:08
Very few people remember what happened in the championship.
27:11
It's a wonderful feather to have in my cap.
27:14
I love the fact that I've done it back to back wins at Le Mans,
27:17
back to back world championships.
27:19
Those are really, really special.
27:21
Those are something I'll have with me for the rest of my days.
27:24
They're big accomplishments.
27:25
But if you have the choice, you take Le Mans every single
27:28
time because it's so hard.
27:33
You only get one chance to win a 24 hour race.
27:36
Every car is a long shot.
27:37
You have to have luck.
27:39
You have to have skill.
27:40
You have to have a great team.
27:41
You have to have no mistakes.
27:43
It's just really, really hard to pull it off.
27:45
It's an incredible accomplishment.
27:47
All the diversity you had this year to come back and win.
27:50
And for the Centenary, I mean, that's Definitely a unique trophy
27:54
that's only won for this year that you have on your trophy case now.
27:57
Let's move over to 2024.
27:59
I mean, you've been among for the nine straight years with
28:01
eight different manufacturers and LMP2 and in GTE categories.
28:05
What's next for 2024?
28:07
I have to get an invite, but it is my hope.
28:11
So next year for the World Endurance Championship, LMP2
28:15
will not be in the championship, but they will run at Le Mans.
28:18
They have reserved 15 spots at Le Mans for the LMP2 class.
28:22
I hope to be in LMP2 in the Pro Am class at Le Mans.
28:27
I want to race less.
28:28
You know, I'm doing a full season of IMSA in the LMP2 class.
28:32
Uh, I'm doing a full season of the World Endurance Championship and right now I'm
28:37
spending about four months of my year at a racetrack and it's too much for me.
28:42
I am planning to race less.
28:44
I expect to be an EMSA in the LP two.
28:47
I hope to be at lama, which will be my 10th year in nine different cars.
28:51
I'm hopeful to be a, uh, third year in a row winner in the class, but
28:56
there's a lot of that that's yet to be seen, the future long term.
28:59
Do you plan on continuing racing and for how long?
29:02
I mean, I love it.
29:04
So I do this for fun.
29:05
I sell cars for my vocation and I race for my recreation,
29:09
but I've bitten with the bug.
29:11
I'm addicted to the drug, whatever you want to call it.
29:13
I don't see myself leaving racing.
29:16
I really love, I'm super excited in another three weeks.
29:19
I'm going to race in a 24 hour race.
29:22
A chump car race at VIR, that is as much fun as any other racing that I do.
29:28
I expect to do Daytona for a long time.
29:31
I expect to do more chump car racing.
29:33
And I still have the Viper that I ran in 2015, the AMG that I won.
29:39
Sebring in the Ford GT that I won and lost Le Mans in and I'll own this
29:44
C8R Corvette at the end of the year.
29:47
And so I hope to have time to go out and play with those toys in
29:51
some historic racing or track days.
29:54
It'll be a long time before I walk away from racing.
29:58
It's just going to look a little bit different.
30:00
It's going to be a different season.
30:01
Once a racer, always a racer.
30:03
It's hard to get rid of that out of the blood.
30:17
This episode has been brought to you by the Automobile Club
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From the awe inspiring speed demons that have graced the track to the courageous
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automotive spectacle like no other.
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For over a century, the 24 Hours Le Mans has urged manufacturers to
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the relentless pursuit of speed and excellence in the world of motorsports.
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To learn more about, or to become a member of the ACO USA, look no further than www.
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org, click on English in the upper right corner, and then click on the
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