Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #366: Sean Foulkes-Warsaw Community (IN) High School | Finding Purpose Through Coaching

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#366: Sean Foulkes-Warsaw Community (IN) High School | Finding Purpose Through Coaching · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

• 0:02
  You're listening to the Gil Athletics Connections podcast
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  with host Mike Cunningham. Track and field world juvenile
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  tuned in to our humble servant Mike Cunningham for another
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  extraordinary message for Gil Athletics Connections.
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  Welcome back here to the Gill Connections podcast.
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  Again, so humbled you would press play today to listen to
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  want, how you are enjoying the guest.
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  We've had the Gil 1918 project that we've been doing.
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  Just want to get some feedback from you guys and gals who are
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  loyal listeners on what you're thinking.
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  And then also any referrals you might have for future guests.
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  I mean, this is just it's a fun fest and we want to have every
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  coach. It's like Pokémon.
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  We want to have every catch them all, every coach on the podcast.
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  And that starts 1 by 1 by 1 by 1.
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  And I can't wait to share with you today's one in his story.
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  So help me welcome from over in Warsaw Community high schools
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  over in Indiana, great state, great area over there, the wise
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  and wonderful Mr. Sean Falks. Sean, welcome to the show.
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  Hi, Mike. Thanks for having me.
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  Appreciate it. Absolutely man.
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  You, you know, we've known each other for a while.
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  You've actually you're kind of, I don't know how we would turn
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  this. So you're not a past guest in
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  the sense of like we've never done this or our, our long
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  journey here, but you've been on when we do at USTFC, the CA, we
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  do live at the live recording of the show and get coaches sit
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  down for five to 10 minutes. You've been on that at least
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  once and I think a couple times if if I'm not mistaken.
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  Just once. Is that right?
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  OK, I was thinking more than one yeah you know after 300 and I
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  mean this is going to be episode 360 something Monday shows, you
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  know our long form shows and then you take an account the
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  live events we do and things like that.
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  I'm I'm give myself grace and I forget who's been on the show
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  who hasn't how many times all that kind of Yeah, yeah, yeah,
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  thank you. I appreciate that.
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  I I always love grace from from our guest Sean man, what's going
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  on over in Indiana? How are things?
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  We're recording this in April. How's the how's the weather?
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  How's practice you getting outside?
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  What's going on? Well, we're trying to get
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  outside when we can. So Indiana is interesting.
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  I'm going to say that right off the bat because like I'm not
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  originally from Indiana, I'm from Michigan.
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  And so our seasons are a little different in how we approach the
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  track season. So like down here in Indiana at
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  the high school level, they have a four or five week indoor
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  season as part of their outdoor season.
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  So those meets kind of count towards your meet total and then
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  you have like an indoor state championship, which is the
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  Hoosier State Relays. And it's kind of a big school,
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  small school thing. I mean it, it's a really neat
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  opportunity. And you know, we're very
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  fortunate enough in the area that we're in that we actually
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  have our own indoor to like host some of those meats in.
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  But it it it's really neat because we get to wear the
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  colors. And this year the weather helped
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  out enough that we were able to have an outdoor meat kind of
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  sandwiched in between some of our indoor meats.
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  Yeah. And so that was that was
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  interesting, but. Is that meat still the
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  unofficial indoor state meat? Like it's not run through India?
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  Yeah, several. We Illinois, we do that same
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  thing over here. We haven't, you know, non
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  sanctions not sanctioned through the high school Athletic
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  Association. The one of the cool things.
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  I mean, there's many cool things, but the only things I
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  really like about Indiana track and field.
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  A couple years ago now, I went out and interviewed a high
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  school coach from every state to talk about their outdoor state
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  meet. So we really, it was
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  fascinating. If you haven't, if you're
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  listening now that's news to you.
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  Haven't heard that. Go back whatever app you're
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  using or what not. I think it was two years ago.
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  So literally every state, Alabama to Washington DC, we did
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  51 of them really dived into their outdoor state meet.
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  So how they qualify, what events they do.
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  That blew my mind honestly is how different events each states
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  does it, how they conduct their state meet, etcetera, etcetera.
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  But the unique thing about Indiana, it was one of the few,
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  there was at least one other one off top of my head, California
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  that does a one class system. There is no a AA big school,
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  small school. It is if you got 30 kids in your
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  school, you got 3000 kids in your school.
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  We all dive into trying to win the same state title.
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  And I think that's, I like that. That's actually I think never
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  having coached at a school that only had 30 kids in it, I'm sure
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  they maybe think differently, but I I do like that.
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  What? What do you think about that?
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  Well, coming from a school when I was in high school that was a
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  2 hallway and a gym high school, I mean we were lucky that like
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  our group had 40 when I was in high school on the guys side,
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  but they would traditionally have like 13 right?
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  And so I, I think there's certainly some merit into the
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  divisions, right? I mean, just the population base
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  to be able to say, look, if I have 3000 people, I should have
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  roughly 30 true athletes throughout the entire school at
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  the minimum, right? And some people would argue the
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  number, but like, look, 1000 kids, you're going to get
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  probably, you know, 10 athletes. I mean, just like they can do it
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  all type thing. So when you only have a school
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  of maybe 200 boy, like that's, that's saying something.
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  Yeah. I had a teammate in high school
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  that that was A5 sport guy. Just because holy crowd.
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  Yeah, I get that. And I did when I coached high
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  school in Illinois. We were a two class system and I
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  kind of like that because that that was at least a divider of
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  like call it big school, small school, etcetera.
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  We've now gone to three. And again, you know, it's like
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  I'm not a big fan of when it becomes so many.
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  Like I, I grew up in Alabama where when I was there, and I
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  think it's actually more now when I was there, we had six
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  classes for Alabama. There's more kids in Chicago,
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  not even the whole state of Illinois, just Chicago than
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  there is an Alabama. And in Chicago, IL was doing it
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  two classes and we were doing it 6 and it just it, it watered it
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  down. Plus if you don't have a one
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  class system you don't get the movie Hoosiers.
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  True, very true. But like I I also think of it
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  from like my time growing up where like the Lower Peninsula,
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  Michigan had four classes and the Upper Peninsula had a
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  separate 3. The UP had three.
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  The UP still has three classes all on their own.
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  They they do a state meet on the same site, same location and the
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  lower peninsula does 4 different sites for each division.
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  I imagine there's only two people who even live in the UP.
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  Well, I mean, you got to imagine that the qualifying standards up
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  there are not as strong as core Peninsula simply because they
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  get a little bit better weather down South, right?
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  Well, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're calling, you're
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  calling Southern Michigan Lansing Newps landing more the
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  southern. Oh yeah.
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  It's more north. I love it, Sean.
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  Let's get let's get into it. We, we we can talk about more.
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  Yeah, Yeah. Later.
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  But I want to learn more about you, my friend.
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  Let's get in our Wayback Machine here.
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  My favorite question, It's my first question I ask every
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  single guest, assuming you are an athlete.
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  And we certainly know that what assuming does.
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  And we certainly had great coaches here who were not track
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  and field athletes. But for you, Sean, where in the
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  world does track and field start?
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  Oddly enough, it starts with two best friends in freshman year of
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  high school saying if you don't join track, we're not going to
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  be able to hang out after school.
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  OK, peer pressure. You got to look.
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  There's good peer pressure in the world.
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  I love that. So I I remember calling my mom
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  and dad saying hey my buddies Matt and Brandon are staying
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  after for this track meeting can I stay after?
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  And they wanted me to get involved in something, just be a
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  part of anything. And not that I was antisocial,
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  but I did like middle school football in 4th and 8th grade.
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  And it was like, it's an OK experience.
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  I mean, when when you're playing two way football for an entire
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  season because you don't have the numbers, it wears on you a
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  bit. So I, I started track freshman
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  year and we had a kind of knowledgeable guy helping out in
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  the throws, right? But it was like did.
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  You did you know about track? Maybe maybe the better question
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  is like where you know your, your level level of knowledge
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  and track and field is, you know, 95 out of 100 today when
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  you and the when the boys were like, Hey, you got to come join
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  us track. Did you know like, OK, they're
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  shot and discus. I know there's running events.
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  Or did you like, all right, I've seen an Olympics once.
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  Where were you? I knew enough about it because I
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  have I have two older sisters, one of which did track.
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  Oh yeah. And she had done track in high
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  school and then did track at UD Mercy.
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  Oh yeah. And she was doing it right
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  around the time that women's pole vault became a collegiate
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  event at the end level. So she was this weird combo of
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  doing discus, hammer weight and pole vault.
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  Yeah, yeah, we had that back then.
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  Yeah, and so it was. I mean, it was wild, right?
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  But I remember going to see a meat of hers when I was in high
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  school. I think it was, I guess a state
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  final or a regional. And then I remember seeing one
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  of her college meets, like my freshman year with my buddies
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  and just remember thinking, all right, I can do this.
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  Like, yeah, like this is it's OK now.
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  Shot was never my big thing. I never had like a great push
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  from here, but discus man, I could I could sling that thing.
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  So I was like, all right, like let's let's dive in and.
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  What was it like the first time? So you you're a freshman year
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  you just you go join practice, you go over the throws and they
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  put a 12 LB shot in your hand or you know the 1.6 discus in your
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  hand. What was that feeling to even
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  remember that or. Yeah, I remember picking up that
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  shot and saying this is freaking heavy.
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  Just you wait. Well, and I again, we had a guy
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  that was helping out with throws.
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  He was a nice guy. He knew a little bit right.
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  But I remember trying to think, OK, I know what the statue of
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  Diskopolis looks like from Greek times.
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  That must be how I wind up like that must be how a stand throw
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  looks right. And I've got and this will this
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  will date me for anyone out there.
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  I have VHS tape that shows me winding up like the the statue
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  and I'm just like I I look at it now and I just cringe.
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  To give you some understanding of when a a young kid comes to
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  your program and is like, Oh yeah, you throw it like a
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  Frisbee and you're like, well, how do you what do you think
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  it's like when they don't know? You didn't know There's just.
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  We're. Rookies in this world?
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  So I, I think I had a little advantage over my teammates
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  slightly because I, I looked at things a little differently.
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  Now, saying that there's context.
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  I had a younger sister who was autistic and she was lower
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  functioning. No formal speech communication,
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  no typing, no writing could make some sounds, you know, But for
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  all intents and purposes, I helped my parents kind of raise
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  her, right? I mean, when I wasn't doing
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  sports, it was, you know, helping take care of her, right?
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  So when you have someone that views the world so differently
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  like that, you have to start viewing the world differently
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  too. How do you phrase things?
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  How do you say things? How do you look at what's really
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  important and what matters? And so it allowed me the base to
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  be able to ask the questions and say, OK, what is actually
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  important about this throw? Like what?
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  I understand I'm not doing AB and C, but what about D&E&F?
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  Like do those matter or can I just put those to the back
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  burner till later, right? And so I worked it like a
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  process and my my mom and dad, who are, you know, love him to
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  death, right? My dad was a a sports guy.
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  He was a wrestler and football player and never did track.
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  Well, I mean, he did it in middle school, like on a cinder
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  track, right? My mom wasn't a track person.
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  So my dad though, he's like, all right, if we're going to do
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  this, like, let's help you out. And so like my program didn't
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  have a whole lot. So he's like, you know, here's
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  here's some disks and some shots and here's, here's a video on
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  how to do it. And it was one of those old Mac
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  Wilkins Al Fuerbach type. Things.
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  And then eventually like a John Powell 1.
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  And so like I would just sit there and I would watch those
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  things. I would like burn like the VCR
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  like and just hours and hours. You said you had an older sister
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  that threw. Was there some like hand me
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  down? Like did he do this with sister
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  as well? And like.
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  No, so my my sisters are from my mom's first marriage.
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  OK, got it. And so they're like 8 and 9
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  years. Older, Yeah, yeah.
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  So they're both, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  That's a whole different generation at this.
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  Point yeah and and they lived with their dad through through
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  the high school years so like that's why I only saw a couple
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  of their competitions. But my my parents were always
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  super supportive of me trying to be my best and whatever I was
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  doing right. And so but they were also
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  leaders and managers and so like for them like my dad was a chief
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  information officer at the VA Medical Center in Battle Creek.
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  My mom was a nurse manager for behavioral health resources.
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  I mean, so like, I had leaders in my household every day
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  setting the tempo. Right.
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  And so that was a, that was a really good foundation to hold
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  me accountable #1 because I was not the guy to be easily held
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  accountable. I, I had to learn that the hard
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  way. But it set the example for how
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  do you treat people? How do you take care of the
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  people who are taking care of you, right?
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  And how do you conduct yourself in the best possible way?
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  And so those are skills that I am forever grateful for.
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  Yeah, you mentioned VHS tapes. Help us give us some framework
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  of time wise. What What year did you graduate
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  high school? I graduated in 2005.
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  Yeah, see, you know, you make me feel older when you go 2005
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  that's so long. I graduated in 94.
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  So relax, buddy. You you graduated high school
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  the year before I got to Gill that that's how young you are,
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  Sean. So let's let's relax here on
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  your let me have you step to the side of your old man podium and
• 14:44
  get down. I will take the old man podium
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  here. OK, so 2005 so it's pre YouTube.
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  You know, it's funny. I think of YouTube being around
• 14:52
  forever actually started like in O 6 and was nothing what it is
• 14:55
  today until like around O eight O 9.
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  So you're you're you're kind of years away from any kind of
• 15:02
  YouTube. You do have the internets.
• 15:04
  And what I mean by that is like you could Google like, you know
• 15:07
  how to throw the discus out there.
• 15:08
  There was some websites like that.
• 15:11
  There, there was one track and field website that that I used a
• 15:16
  lot as a resource because they always posted photos from the
• 15:20
  meat and so they would have like, I mean, I, I.
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  Can't remember. But if I don't like know if I
• 15:27
  can say the web, I don't think it's out there anymore.
• 15:30
  So I think it's OK. It was track shark.
• 15:32
  Oops dude, that was my jam, love.
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  I know, right? Tom Borish.
• 15:37
  BORISH Borish. Yeah, he was a Kent State grad,
• 15:42
  Dude, the track shark was like, why can't we get track shark
• 15:46
  back? I mean, no God, boy.
• 15:48
  I mean, between the forums and the photos, like, I mean, those
• 15:50
  were over gold, right? Track Shark.
• 15:52
  Was a big part of me getting my quote UN quote dream job.
• 15:57
  I always wanted to work in the SEC and so from Ball State to
• 16:00
  Mississippi State I had an athlete.
• 16:02
  So Tom, the guy who ran track shark was a Mac guy.
• 16:04
  He said he went to Kent State and so he, you know, he he was
• 16:08
  definitely a national like he paid attention to the whole
• 16:10
  country as far as trying to feel.
• 16:11
  But Mac kids got a little more, you know, we he was not going to
• 16:15
  miss out on that kid. And I had a really, really good
• 16:17
  long jump triple jumper, 2021 feet, almost 22 and 43, almost
• 16:21
  44 feet. And so she was on there a lot.
• 16:24
  And the guys at Mississippi State was like, wait a minute,
• 16:26
  who's coaching that gal? Because she's doing really good.
• 16:28
  And that was part of how I got that job.
• 16:30
  So dude, I love I got to hunt down Tom and what is he doing
• 16:34
  today? Because he's a he's a little bit
• 16:36
  like a you obviously were on die stat at some form or yeah.
• 16:42
  So like John Dye, rest in peace like these Tom and John, these
• 16:46
  like pre, not pre Internet, but like early adopters of the
• 16:51
  Internet for media for our sport.
• 16:54
  They they set the path and I'm not sure you know, let's run has
• 16:58
  picked up the mantle. Track and field news is a great
• 17:01
  news aggregate. I I've had E Gary Hill on the
• 17:04
  podcast before as well, and I told him that track and field
• 17:07
  news and this still stands today.
• 17:08
  I did it this morning is like my Wall Street Journal.
• 17:11
  The very first thing I do when I get in the morning is go to
• 17:14
  track and field news. Look at the news little headline
• 17:16
  section. Which articles do I want to
• 17:18
  read? It's still valuable, but it's
• 17:20
  not track shark. It's not nice, Dad.
• 17:23
  Love that it had that community feel right.
• 17:28
  And yeah, there were 4. Wait, wait, you don't.
• 17:31
  You don't get that community feel from the Let's Run forums.
• 17:35
  I feel like I get more of the let's gripe.
• 17:39
  Right, right, right. Yeah.
• 17:41
  Let's run in parentheses. Let's complain.
• 17:44
  Yeah, yeah. Than anything else and nothing
• 17:47
  against. Let's run because I think there
• 17:48
  is a lot of value to it. Yeah, I don't know, I think it's
• 17:51
  just different, right. But you got to understand, like
• 17:54
  for me, because because the Internet was, you know,
• 17:57
  relatively new with some of those things, we didn't have the
• 18:00
  Youtubes and stuff, I would go and I would look at all the
• 18:03
  stills from people throwing and then I would compare the
• 18:07
  different positions they had throwing and say, all right,
• 18:10
  what is it biomechanically? I didn't realize it was bio
• 18:13
  mechanically. But I'm like, like, what are
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  they doing with their arm and their leg?
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  And like, why am I not doing that?
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  What is the value of this? Did you tackle other things in
• 18:24
  your life like that? Like are you doing this in
• 18:26
  science class or math class or you doing this, you know, you
• 18:30
  played other sports or you watch other sports or you know, you
• 18:32
  had a buddy in another sport? Were you watching like how your
• 18:34
  buddy took a swing in baseball? Like or is this because it's a
• 18:38
  it's become a passion of yours at this early age?
• 18:42
  I don't know if it had become a passion yet.
• 18:44
  OK, I mean, I, I think, I think what it was was my mom and dad
• 18:50
  always had this way of showing me all the steps of how
• 18:54
  something worked, right, Especially my dad, my dad, this
• 18:59
  brilliant guy. But he would be like, all right,
• 19:03
  here's this. And then he asked, why do you
• 19:06
  think this is like what, what what happens because of this?
• 19:09
  And he would, you know, start to lead the question, I mean, and
• 19:11
  how he would teach those kind of form the base for how I coach,
• 19:16
  right? Because it's that guided
• 19:17
  discovery piece of all right, like we'll give you enough to be
• 19:21
  dangerous, but now what can you do with it once you have it
• 19:24
  right? And so I started approaching it
• 19:27
  from that point. And so like, he would go down
• 19:29
  with me to the field and we'd spend 4 hours and set up Avhs
• 19:33
  camera and just we record it. And then we'd come back and we'd
• 19:36
  sit through and we'd pour through it and say, all right,
• 19:38
  like, well, here's what I'm doing here and here's what I'm
• 19:40
  doing there. And so I think those are the
• 19:43
  things that really gave me the base for the video analysis that
• 19:48
  I would use later on, especially when things like dart fish and
• 19:52
  coach's eye and all those other things came out right.
• 19:54
  And so I think that's where the pieces came into play now.
• 20:01
  So I think there's there's also context to be said.
• 20:03
  We didn't have anybody pushing us in the weight room.
• 20:07
  And so I wasn't like, I hardly spent any time in the weight
• 20:10
  room. I really did maybe four or five
• 20:13
  days, right? But I was.
• 20:16
  Drilling for hours before my bus would come in the morning.
• 20:19
  So what kind So how does that parlay to your coach?
• 20:26
  Cuz today we'll have some complaints about these kids get
• 20:29
  to see every workout in the I can go on Instagram right now
• 20:33
  and I know what, what they're doing in California for shot
• 20:36
  putting today and then down in Florida and I easily get to go
• 20:38
  to my coach and like, Hey, how come we're not doing this drill?
• 20:40
  Or how come you know, I'm not throwing as far as this guy, you
• 20:43
  didn't have that, but you're doing a lot of extracurricular
• 20:46
  activity. Not I'm assuming that not every
• 20:49
  throw in your team was going out for hours filming going.
• 20:53
  But you're right. Exactly how did that pair with
• 20:55
  your coach? My coach was very much AI, don't
• 21:00
  know anything about throws. So the more you know, the
• 21:02
  better. OK, He was a great guy.
• 21:05
  Like he knew people. He was very good at the mental
• 21:08
  piece with people. And like for an athlete myself,
• 21:12
  when I struggled with the mental of like being able to lock in
• 21:16
  and focus, or I'd let the the stage or the circumstance
• 21:20
  overwhelm me, he was able to dial me back in.
• 21:24
  And so that was that was essential to who I right, said
• 21:31
  no, he was very much like, all right, you want to do this, You
• 21:33
  want to do that. Like one of the biggest things
• 21:35
  we talked about was because at the time, rotational was
• 21:38
  becoming much bigger, right? I mean, you had the one throw
• 21:43
  that comes to mind. I mean, yeah, you got like the
• 21:45
  Adam Nelson's and and the Reese Hoffa's and whatnot.
• 21:49
  But like, I remember Laura Garrity from North Carolina and
• 21:54
  and she just had a beautiful rotation.
• 21:56
  The shot. I remember telling my coach
• 21:59
  like, hey, I'm not a really effective glider.
• 22:01
  Like I'm just not, I'm not strong enough.
• 22:03
  I don't have a good push, but I'm a decent discus thrower.
• 22:06
  So I think maybe the rotation is the way to go.
• 22:09
  And he fought me on it for three years.
• 22:12
  And my, my senior year I said, you know what, like this is it.
• 22:16
  I've I've got to do this. Like we're going this route.
• 22:19
  And it was one of those first times where I was like, all
• 22:21
  right, we're going to take a stand here and say, Nope, this
• 22:25
  is the line. Let's go.
• 22:27
  And so Michigan has a unofficial indoor season called the
• 22:30
  Michigan Indoor Track Series. So I would go to meet to like
• 22:35
  Albion and Hillsdale College and Grand Valley before they got
• 22:39
  their big indoor facility, right?
• 22:40
  Like when the the home stretch was under the bleachers, which
• 22:44
  was just crazy. I'd go to those and I, I spent
• 22:48
  an entire indoor season honing my rotation.
• 22:51
  So I was ready for the spring because I didn't want to like be
• 22:54
  fixing it going into anything. And, and my average throws
• 22:58
  jumped up 6 feet. I was bringing home medals for
• 23:03
  the the team and point for the team that we needed to be
• 23:05
  successful. And it was one of those like, I
• 23:08
  miss going to state by three inches in the shot, which I
• 23:11
  hadn't been competitive in for the last three years.
• 23:16
  So I was like, man, like, like there's something here, like,
• 23:19
  like, like I, I have to do this, right?
• 23:22
  I just got to keep going with it.
• 23:23
  So I knew that that was good. So he was supportive at that
• 23:28
  point of being like, all right, you clearly know enough to like,
• 23:32
  maybe give me some ideas as to like what maybe this kid should
• 23:35
  do. That kid should do.
• 23:38
  And then I got to college and that's.
• 23:42
  OK, don't, don't go there just yet.
• 23:44
  Hold on before. I get to college.
• 23:45
  So where is you're doing some I'm always fascinated because
• 23:51
  you know, spoiler, we know you become a track coach, but at
• 23:53
  1617 years old, we didn't necessarily know are where is
• 23:58
  coaching in your mind as a high schooler?
• 23:59
  Like are you thinking like I'm going to be a because you're
• 24:01
  doing some obviously coach things, right?
• 24:04
  Video analysis. You had to do a lot of
• 24:07
  experimentation moving from the glide to the rotation.
• 24:10
  Are you thinking at this point coach or you thinking
• 24:13
  firefighter or doctor or lawyer? You know, I, I didn't know what
• 24:17
  I want to do next. I was very open about the fact
• 24:20
  that I had no idea. But like my sophomore through
• 24:24
  senior year, I was actually coaching our middle school
• 24:27
  throwers for an hour before a high school practice, right?
• 24:31
  So like I was kind of already doing it in like a very
• 24:34
  unofficial, like no authority capacity, right?
• 24:40
  Because I wanted them to be better than we were, yeah.
• 24:42
  I I, I wonder, it's funny, you just said that and I was like,
• 24:45
  oh, in my head I was like, yeah, you were helping, you weren't
• 24:47
  coaching. But then I was like, well,
• 24:49
  what's the difference between helping and coaching?
• 24:50
  And, and maybe authority is the right because you said without
• 24:52
  authority, I was like, maybe that's what moves from and, and
• 24:55
  it's not demeaning. I don't mean a demeaning when I
• 24:57
  say you were helping, not coaching, but it's like, oh, I
• 24:59
  wonder if that is that authority piece was there?
• 25:02
  OK, so you're not like, you know, we've got some people here
• 25:05
  like, man, at 16, I knew I was going to be a coach.
• 25:08
  You're still like, OK, I love this.
• 25:10
  I'm loving the sport. I'm having success in it.
• 25:13
  But I don't, I mean, again, you're 1718 years old.
• 25:15
  What do you know? You know nothing.
• 25:17
  I don't know what I want to be. I knew that I liked the version
• 25:21
  of myself when I was competing. That's about as much as I knew.
• 25:25
  Like, tell me, let's double click into that.
• 25:27
  What does that mean? How were you?
• 25:29
  How was Sean when he was competing different from Sean
• 25:32
  walking around the hallways or Sean sitting at the dinner
• 25:34
  table? So the Sean walking the hallway,
• 25:37
  sitting around the dinner table didn't have the direction,
• 25:41
  didn't really have the, the sense of purpose, right?
• 25:44
  It's just kind of I, I guess we figure this out.
• 25:47
  I, I guess this is what everyone does.
• 25:49
  You, you go to college, you, then you get the job and then
• 25:52
  you, you pay the bills, whatever.
• 25:56
  But Sean in a sport was like, here's the goal.
• 26:00
  Go achieve the goal. Oh, do this.
• 26:03
  These are things that we have to do to like.
• 26:06
  And so I love wearing the colors.
• 26:07
  I think that's one of the things I love the most is like being a
• 26:11
  part of something bigger than yourself, right?
• 26:14
  And track was perfect because while, you know, in high school,
• 26:18
  I didn't necessarily have the utmost faith in some teammates,
• 26:24
  right? Like if we did a relay invite, I
• 26:27
  hated them because I didn't want to rely on another person's
• 26:30
  effort and abilities to dictate how we did right, But I would
• 26:34
  give everything I had to try and help them, you know, achieve
• 26:37
  something higher. So like track was great because
• 26:39
  I could individually succeed, but still contribute to that
• 26:42
  team effort, right. So I was like, all right, I'm
• 26:45
  going to take this track thing as far as I can, right?
• 26:50
  And that's about all I knew. I knew I wanted to kind of get
• 26:54
  out of my small town because this was a small town and and
• 26:58
  again, IA lot of love for it. But the theme of the town was
• 27:04
  you're either going to leave the town and then go work in a
• 27:06
  factory or a farm, or you're going to go to Community College
• 27:09
  for two years and then work on a factory or a farm.
• 27:12
  Right, right. And I didn't want to do.
• 27:15
  That senior year, you know you want to try to take this sport
• 27:19
  as far as possible. What were you thinking?
• 27:21
  But what did you explore and where did you end up going?
• 27:24
  And what did you end up at first at least?
• 27:27
  Cuz you know they say the average like number of times
• 27:30
  people change as a majors 3 which is crazy to me.
• 27:32
  But what did you at least start out with when you first got
• 27:37
  there? So senior year I had a few
• 27:42
  schools in mind. Being in Michigan growing up,
• 27:45
  you know, Grand Valley to me was like the IT one, is that right?
• 27:50
  Yeah. I, I, I think they still kind of
• 27:52
  are, especially for throwers, right?
• 27:54
  Like, nothing against places like Michigan and Michigan State
• 27:57
  and Eastern, all fantastic programs.
• 28:00
  Even Central Michigan when they had the men's program at the
• 28:02
  time, like just great programs. But there was something about
• 28:06
  going to meets at Grand Valley and seeing those athletes have
• 28:12
  such a tight knit community and building each other up, always
• 28:15
  cheering each other on, supporting each other.
• 28:18
  And for me, those those environments are where success
• 28:20
  happens, right? And so I was like, all right, I
• 28:22
  want to go to something like that.
• 28:24
  And so like I looked outside of my state a little bit.
• 28:27
  I looked at Allegheny College and coach, I think it was Bill
• 28:31
  Ross was there at the time, didn't know how great of a
• 28:34
  throws guy he was until like later.
• 28:36
  And I was like, Oh my God, shot myself in the foot being like,
• 28:39
  why didn't I do that? I looked at Saginaw Valley State
• 28:44
  and that was a good one, but it was, it was much farther away.
• 28:48
  And I wanted to be far enough away from home where I could be
• 28:51
  independent, but close enough where I could still go home
• 28:54
  because I am still super, very close to my mom and dad, right?
• 28:58
  And whenever I need to help out with my sister, I could, right?
• 29:01
  So I chose Ferris State. Yeah, you're a bulldog.
• 29:05
  Nice. Yeah, well, kind of.
• 29:08
  You became a bulldog for OK. So I got up there my freshman
• 29:12
  year, and when you are at a small high school, sometimes
• 29:18
  your counselors don't know everything.
• 29:20
  They need to make sure you're prepared for college, like not
• 29:24
  knowing about the NCAA clearing house and not knowing that one
• 29:29
  of your math classes, because of how it's named, only counted as
• 29:32
  half a credit. And so I came in and they're
• 29:36
  like, yeah, you're gonna have to red shirt this year.
• 29:39
  Oh, man, Like, oh, how'd that make you feel?
• 29:42
  You're excited. You found.
• 29:43
  You found, you know, when you're describing Sean competing versus
• 29:48
  Sean in the hallways or Sean on the dinner table?
• 29:49
  Yeah. I can't think of the words focus
• 29:51
  and direction. Yeah.
• 29:53
  So you got some where the you got some direction and.
• 29:55
  This is where the train comes off the tracks.
• 29:57
  Yeah. So I find out I'm gonna red
• 30:00
  shirt and I was like, all right, that's fine.
• 30:02
  A lot of athletes red shirt, no biggie.
• 30:03
  Did you? Even know what that meant.
• 30:04
  My degree in 4 then I'm good. Yeah, I I was wondering, like,
• 30:07
  you know, we're talking about 18 year old kids.
• 30:09
  Do they even know what red shirt?
• 30:10
  Did you know what that meant or did you have to like?
• 30:12
  Really explain to you, I mean, my dad and I, we had talked
• 30:15
  about college football a lot, right?
• 30:16
  Just because we're we're fans of the sport, not the right, right,
• 30:18
  right, right, right, right intention playing.
• 30:20
  So we'd always talked about the red shirt versus, you know, like
• 30:22
  the medical Gray shirt. And so like those kind of
• 30:25
  conversations were always happening.
• 30:27
  So I was like, all right, cool. I know it.
• 30:29
  If I'm talented enough, somebody will probably want to red shirt
• 30:33
  me and my freshman year to get me stronger, get me used to the
• 30:35
  program because and I I told this to a lot of recruits when I
• 30:39
  was coaching the college level. You know, freshman year is the
• 30:41
  hardest year of college by far because new environment, new
• 30:45
  routines, new people like it is, you know, for lack of better
• 30:49
  phrasing, it is hell to go through.
• 30:51
  Yeah. And so if you can make it
• 30:53
  through freshman year, you know this, and the studies show this
• 30:56
  too, you're 70% more likely to graduate, right?
• 31:00
  So you just got to get through the year.
• 31:03
  So when I got up there, I was like, all right, cool, I'm going
• 31:05
  to red shirt. That's all right.
• 31:06
  I've got like four or five teammates that were on the team
• 31:10
  already that were thrown far enough that they're going to
• 31:13
  push me because I've been the top guy in my high school team
• 31:15
  in disc for like 3 years, right? I was like, I, I need someone to
• 31:19
  help push me, right? If you don't have a solid
• 31:21
  training group, you're not going to get there.
• 31:25
  Then I find out that they'd all quit.
• 31:27
  Oh no. And they had quit because they
• 31:30
  were unhappy with a few things in the program and and they're
• 31:34
  like, OK, cool. All of them quit.
• 31:36
  We know we recruited you, but we're going to have you do the
• 31:40
  walk on tryouts with these walk ONS that that want to come out
• 31:43
  and try out. And I was like, say what now?
• 31:48
  So, so those things happen. And then then trying to go
• 31:53
  through class and I, I wasn't the best student, right?
• 31:56
  And so like I, I struggled, I struggled so hard.
• 31:59
  And even though we had mandatory study hall, like I was still
• 32:02
  struggling if there wasn't that outreach for that.
• 32:05
  And, and at the time it was a very distance oriented program.
• 32:09
  So if you weren't a distance runner, then it was kind of like
• 32:11
  you're on the back burner, right?
• 32:15
  It, it's changed now. Thank goodness they, they've got
• 32:18
  a great guy in there in place now.
• 32:20
  But it was one of those things where I was like, man, like I,
• 32:27
  I'd always found value in my contribution to the program.
• 32:31
  And now I'm an afterthought. And that was really, really hard
• 32:34
  to take. And then through my freshman
• 32:37
  year, my mom ended up having an emergency surgery to remove a
• 32:43
  mass in her chest. And so like, I pieced out from
• 32:47
  school for a week to go home and be with my dad, my mom and help
• 32:50
  my sister and I never recovered. Like I end up flunking out of
• 32:54
  the school. I mean, I, I had gone and driven
• 32:57
  myself to some indoor meets and some outdoor meets.
• 33:00
  Like I, I made a final at a Spartan invite as an attached
• 33:05
  guy. So I'm like, I knew I could
• 33:06
  throw, right? But it was just, it was so hard
• 33:12
  to do it when you're on an island, right?
• 33:15
  And so came back home kind of tail tucked between my legs
• 33:19
  like, and this is this sucks. But that that incident is I
• 33:27
  think what spurned me into coaching.
• 33:30
  So I get back home from college and a buddy of mine from high
• 33:33
  school who is graduating that year says, Hey, can you come
• 33:38
  teach me the spin? Because like, I'm going like,
• 33:40
  I'm going to state, but like, I'm just not hitting the
• 33:42
  distances and no one else in our area does the spin.
• 33:46
  But you did. So it's like, you know, all
• 33:49
  right, yeah, sure, I'll, I'll come out.
• 33:50
  And so, like, I went and spent a week with him because I'm like,
• 33:52
  I need to get out of my head. I just failed at this thing.
• 33:56
  I was feeling so defeated. I was like, all right, let me
• 33:59
  help you out. We took him from a 45 to A50 in
• 34:02
  a week. Wow.
• 34:04
  And I was like, man, this is like, yeah, like I was starting
• 34:07
  to feel that bug again and starting to feel like, all
• 34:09
  right, here's some purpose, right?
• 34:11
  Like maybe I was not the guy who was the best student or the best
• 34:15
  athlete or, you know, whatever. But I've seen some pitfalls that
• 34:20
  I've made. Maybe I can prevent someone else
• 34:22
  from making those same mistakes. And so I was like, all right,
• 34:26
  like, let's help you out with this.
• 34:28
  Now. He didn't have a great day at
• 34:29
  state final, but after that I was like, I got to keep doing
• 34:32
  this. Like, I don't know what I'm
• 34:33
  going to do with my life, but I got to keep doing this.
• 34:36
  That's kind of proverbial. When the bug hit.
• 34:38
  When the bug bit you. Very much so.
• 34:41
  I end up coaching at my old high school along with my old head
• 34:46
  coach as a volunteer assistant and we had a great year there
• 34:51
  and. Not going to school So you did a
• 34:53
  year at first? I went to Community College and
• 34:56
  tried to like, knock some horses out.
• 34:58
  I was going to ask, how did mom and dad allow you not to at
• 35:01
  least go to the community? I was wondering about that.
• 35:04
  Yeah, they were. They were very, very, yeah.
• 35:06
  That's why I was like, well the way you describe, mom and dad
• 35:09
  don't feel like they just let you sleep on the couch while you
• 35:11
  go volunteer at the high school. You doing something around?
• 35:14
  Here, don't get me wrong, I got my ass handed to me when I get
• 35:17
  like I did on a platter. Sure.
• 35:19
  But it was rightfully so, yeah, right.
• 35:22
  I screwed up. That's on me.
• 35:23
  That's on anybody else, right? And so owning that is good
• 35:29
  because there's sometimes people don't own it, right?
• 35:31
  They'll blame everyone else but the person who's really
• 35:34
  responsible. So you're done throwing, at
• 35:36
  least at this point. Yeah, like, I kind of, I was
• 35:40
  like, all right, you know, like, it'd be fun to throw here and
• 35:42
  there, but I was so locked in. All right, all right, cool.
• 35:45
  This is my role. This is my job.
• 35:47
  I can do this. I I know I can help people get
• 35:50
  better. And we had some good throwers
• 35:52
  and and we did some really good things.
• 35:55
  And we did that for two years. And then I had made the
• 36:01
  transition over to Western Michigan University.
• 36:03
  So you get your associates and then transferred to a four year.
• 36:07
  Yep. And when I was at Western, I was
• 36:09
  like, OK, I want to get back in this and I, I told my folks I'm
• 36:14
  like, I want to live on campus in the transfer dorm.
• 36:17
  So I'm with people who are in that same boat that I'm in.
• 36:20
  So at least I'm again part of the team, right?
• 36:25
  And I remember getting over there and connecting with their
• 36:28
  throws coach at the time, Bill Griffey.
• 36:29
  Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
• 36:31
  So Bill Griffey runs the next throws club out of playing well
• 36:35
  and whatnot in Michigan. He is.
• 36:38
  If I had to throw as mentor, I think it's him, right?
• 36:40
  Did he just? I was just at Virginia Beach for
• 36:44
  division Two. Did his?
• 36:45
  Son, his son is thrown down. Yes, yes, yes, yes, that's
• 36:48
  right. Some who did I I might have been
• 36:50
  ran into the Grand Valley coach actually, you know, I think
• 36:52
  about it and they mentioned him and I was like, oh, but I
• 36:54
  haven't seen Bill in forever. So.
• 36:56
  Oh yeah, that's so cool. Like good dude there is a first
• 36:59
  class person Bill Griffey is that.
• 37:01
  He's a good dude, good dude. Like, no, he's a great dude.
• 37:04
  I mean, he's just, he's phenomenal.
• 37:06
  But I remember going up into his track office at Western saying,
• 37:09
  hey, like, I'm, you know, I'm kind of looking to help out.
• 37:12
  Like, I'd love to help the program, you know, just because
• 37:15
  I'd heard of volunteer assistants at those levels.
• 37:17
  And I was like, OK. Like, because when I was at
• 37:19
  Ferris, we didn't have a specific throws coach.
• 37:21
  It was me trying to learn the weight and hammer on my own.
• 37:25
  We had a parent that was helping out and, and I get a lot of love
• 37:28
  to Mr. Barrington who was trying to help out, but like.
• 37:30
  You. Said.
• 37:32
  You graduate in O 5 S just before you around O2 and O3, you
• 37:37
  had a really good throws coach early in his career, a guy named
• 37:43
  Paul Brewski, because that's How I Met Paul was when he was at
• 37:47
  that's how I even knew what Ferris was when I was at Ball
• 37:49
  State and met him at a meeting Indy.
• 37:51
  And he's also a Guild podcast alum and he is, he's a
• 37:54
  phenomenal coach. I mean, he's done an amazing
• 37:57
  job. Now the head coach at the
• 37:58
  University of South Alabama. But when he went back down to
• 38:01
  Alabama, the consistency didn't stay there.
• 38:04
  So yeah, you guys had some some instability there for sure.
• 38:09
  And I was going to ask when you went to Bill Griffey's office,
• 38:12
  like you still had eligibility, but Western had dropped their
• 38:15
  men's program a long time ago. Yeah, they dropped it when I
• 38:19
  was, I think like a freshman or sophomore.
• 38:21
  Yeah, yeah. So there is no that there is no
• 38:23
  trying to rekindle the magic. Yeah.
• 38:25
  Which was so tough because they had just signed this like 204
• 38:29
  foot discus thrower in our state.
• 38:31
  Oh wow. And he's they're like, well, we
• 38:33
  can honor this or you can go somewhere else.
• 38:35
  He's like, Nope, I'll just get my degree.
• 38:37
  We're good. Is that right?
• 38:40
  I was like you just Oh my God, like that was that was hard to
• 38:44
  see. But no I.
• 38:45
  That's I wasn't, you know, thinking.
• 38:46
  About rekindling a program, this is.
• 38:48
  Complete judgement about that attitude of that kid that you
• 38:52
  just said. Complete judgement.
• 38:54
  That guy, he may be listening right now.
• 38:56
  He may be the CEO of Apple for all I know, but that seems like
• 39:00
  a guy who was who was not going to be successful throwing in
• 39:03
  college anyway if he was willing to just let it go.
• 39:05
  Yeah. You know what I'm saying?
• 39:07
  There's a little bit of, there's a little bit of a lack of fire
• 39:09
  in that judgement. Complete judge.
• 39:12
  I openly admit I am judging from 2 sentences you just said about
• 39:16
  that man. But it was like you just stayed
• 39:19
  and didn't throw. I'm not sure it was going to be
• 39:21
  successful for you, my friend. I'll give you that judgement
• 39:24
  with a little judgement back though.
• 39:25
  I think it's much easier for throwers to have that mentality
• 39:30
  than it is for a runner jumper because runners and jumpers tend
• 39:33
  to get more more funding and support after college anyways
• 39:38
  then throws. Sean, you said this kid through
• 39:40
  200 feet out of high school. Yeah, any time with Western
• 39:44
  Michigan and then Western Michigan drops the program.
• 39:48
  Yeah. There were at least ten other
• 39:50
  really good throws programs within two hours that would have
• 39:54
  taken him in a heartbeat. There are, there are.
• 39:58
  And instead he was like, I'm just going to be a I'm just
• 40:00
  going to be a Bronco. It's going to be a it's going to
• 40:01
  be a student that seems a little lack of for throwing fire.
• 40:06
  Now. Now he may here's why I say for
• 40:08
  throwing fire because he may have been like, yeah, I came
• 40:10
  here because of their exercise science, whatever I am going to.
• 40:15
  And God bless him and I hope he is extremely successful right
• 40:18
  now anyway. So what did you talk to Bill
• 40:20
  about? So I said, hey, like, is there a
• 40:23
  way I can like help out or anything like that I can do or,
• 40:26
  you know, just, I just, I want to be helpful.
• 40:29
  And at the time he's like, hey, you know, let's have some more
• 40:34
  chats, let's have some more conversation.
• 40:35
  And we and we did right. We had a couple more and he's
• 40:38
  like, look, Portage Northern High School has an opening for a
• 40:42
  throwers person and they got a kid throwing 190.
• 40:46
  His name is Andrew Evans. And I, I remember looking at
• 40:52
  Bill in his office and I was like, Bill, I've just coached it
• 40:56
  a little rinky dink like Division Four.
• 40:59
  I don't know if I can help a kid who's throwing 190 yet.
• 41:01
  Like I I don't know if I believe in my abilities enough yet to be
• 41:04
  able to give that kid what they need to be successful.
• 41:07
  But but you believed you could coach Division One women.
• 41:10
  No, I I thought if there's any way I could help out, even if
• 41:13
  it's just getting coffee or doing something right like.
• 41:16
  You weren't thinking like, oh, I can come in here and Coach Bill,
• 41:19
  you want me to take this because you take the shot.
• 41:20
  No, it was. No, no, OK.
• 41:22
  I just want to help. OK, got it.
• 41:23
  I wanted to come into a program and try and pay my dues.
• 41:26
  Yeah, OK. This new way I could that makes
• 41:28
  sense. OK.
• 41:28
  Like whatever needed to be stapled or to.
• 41:31
  Be handed out I'm with you OK gotcha gotcha yeah because I.
• 41:34
  Figured if I was going to be in college, like why not, right?
• 41:39
  But he's like, you know, if if you're looking at like helping
• 41:41
  out though, and and. Notice that 200 foot freshman
• 41:45
  didn't come over to Bill and say hey, they dropped the program.
• 41:48
  I want to stay here though, and I'm gonna.
• 41:49
  I'm just saying. Yeah, no, I hopefully.
• 41:51
  Find who that kid is man and I hope he blasts me and says bro I
• 41:55
  stayed and got an amazing degree and have a great family and
• 41:59
  whatever. I hope he blasts me but I'm just
• 42:01
  saying I'm not sure he would have been all that great in in
• 42:03
  college. Well, after telling him, I I
• 42:08
  don't think I'm ready to help AA190 thrower, he's like, hey,
• 42:13
  lot in high school, that's another like, you know, 40 some
• 42:16
  odd minutes down the road is is looking for people too.
• 42:19
  I was like, OK, so I go down there, I interview for that and
• 42:24
  I get that and we do some really good things.
• 42:27
  Their program for a couple years had kids who like would win
• 42:33
  conference and regionals and like shot and disc and and just
• 42:36
  do do some really solid things. We had we had some very, very
• 42:41
  competitive kids. One young lady who'd actually go
• 42:43
  on to throw for Bill, that was our conference.
• 42:46
  We just could not be. She was just she was awesome.
• 42:50
  But no, like we were, we were really competitive and we helped
• 42:54
  them win. Was it 3 or 4 conference titles
• 42:59
  and two regional titles in two years?
• 43:02
  And while you're doing that, you're finishing your undergrad
• 43:05
  at Western. Working on it.
• 43:07
  So again, like I'm just like not the best student, right.
• 43:11
  So like I, I, I'm taking the long way about this and I kept
• 43:15
  going back to the counseling office and feeling like I was
• 43:18
  getting different answers right. And it, it was never like, Hey,
• 43:24
  I just did the things you asked me to do.
• 43:26
  And it's like, well, but there's these other things too.
• 43:30
  And it just, I kept feeling like I was getting running around.
• 43:33
  So I said, you know what, I just need a break for a minute.
• 43:35
  Like I just, I feel like I'm a little directionless right now
• 43:38
  because no one can give me a straight A interest to what
• 43:40
  needs to be done. And so I, I stopped for a bit
• 43:43
  and I was still coaching. I went back and coached one more
• 43:47
  year at my old high school just because it was my head coach, my
• 43:52
  old head coaches last year. I was trying to help him.
• 43:54
  Right after that, though, I was going to coach privately because
• 44:01
  I still had the bug, wanted to do what we need to do.
• 44:05
  Still feeling a little directionless, right?
• 44:08
  And then I go to a meet because the guy that coached that 200
• 44:16
  footer was supposed to be at this meet.
• 44:19
  And I was like, you know what, I want to go pick his brain.
• 44:23
  I want to go like, I want to go see what his throwers do, see
• 44:26
  how they warm up, see how they compete.
• 44:27
  And then I want to ask him like just a ton of questions, right?
• 44:32
  So I show up to porridge Northam the day of the meet and there is
• 44:35
  no meet. They had it wrong on their
• 44:37
  schedule online at the practice. And so I I walked down and the
• 44:43
  throws coach of the time, a woman named Shelby Cummings.
• 44:46
  Just phenomenal woman, right? She's like, can I help you?
• 44:51
  Just like, yeah, I look like this weirdo, just like showing
• 44:55
  up to some high school practice, right?
• 44:57
  I was like, I was like, look, I'm, I'm, I'm a throws coach.
• 45:00
  I was, I heard there was a meet today.
• 45:02
  I just kind of wanted to come and watch a meet.
• 45:04
  Like that's that. That's really all it is.
• 45:06
  She's like, oh, like you coach throws.
• 45:08
  I'm like, yeah, I, I, I do a little.
• 45:09
  I mean, I've, you know, at that point hadn't had much
• 45:13
  experience, but, you know, we coach a couple different
• 45:15
  schools. We've had some success.
• 45:16
  So I was like, yeah, I'm, I know a little, right?
• 45:21
  She said, OK, well the meet's tomorrow if you want to come
• 45:26
  back and help out of the meat. I was like, OK, yeah, I'll come
• 45:30
  back and help out the meat. So I came back, helped out the
• 45:31
  meat, and she said, hey, if you want, maybe you can come back
• 45:36
  and help out shop the next day. I was like, OK, yeah, sure, I'll
• 45:41
  come back and help out shot. And Shelby knows her stuff,
• 45:44
  right? Like Shelby was a thrower for
• 45:45
  Purdue. So like, she wasn't a slacker by
• 45:48
  any stretch. And so I helped her with shot
• 45:51
  for a day. And then we kind of like, helped
• 45:52
  finish out the rest of the season.
• 45:54
  And she said, hey, I'm not going to be doing this next year.
• 45:59
  I recommended you to our head coach and I was like, oh, this
• 46:04
  is like this is great, this is cool.
• 46:06
  And and again, it's like kind of like kismet, right, because, you
• 46:09
  know, we had the opportunity for portion or them didn't didn't
• 46:11
  take it. Now we're back at it.
• 46:16
  Spring rolls around the head coach guy named Aaron Kaylor.
• 46:20
  Just again, great guy. He was a kind of Jack of all
• 46:25
  trades guy, right? Like he's very good on the head
• 46:28
  coach in the paperwork piece, specialize more in high jump
• 46:32
  than anything else. But he he I think, showed me the
• 46:35
  best way to trust your coaches that know their stuff, right?
• 46:39
  Like he surrounded himself with people that knew way more than
• 46:42
  he did about the different event areas and then gave them the
• 46:45
  trust to do what they need to do for their athletes.
• 46:48
  I was like, man, like this is this is phenomenal.
• 46:51
  This is great how this feels, right?
• 46:53
  And we would all talk together and we'd all work together and
• 46:56
  like we always had meetings about like what you're doing and
• 46:58
  they're doing. And so everyone kind of knew the
• 47:01
  page we were all on, right? Like it was wonderful.
• 47:04
  Like I it felt like being on a team again, right?
• 47:07
  Like, yes, this is good, but I get there in the spring and he's
• 47:14
  like, hey, forgot about you had already picked up two other
• 47:21
  people to help. Yeah.
• 47:23
  I was like, yeah, that that's hard.
• 47:26
  He's like, but if you want, I mean, you can you can still come
• 47:29
  volunteer. I was like, all right, I'm a
• 47:33
  glutton for punishment. Let's do it.
• 47:34
  Let's go. Like, yeah, like, whatever.
• 47:36
  Whatever we got to do to coach. Right.
• 47:39
  So I show up there and there were two fellows, a guy named
• 47:42
  John Mayer. No, not the singer and a guy
• 47:45
  named Gary Vanderweil. And they're working on throw
• 47:49
  stuff and I'm trying to take a backseat to it.
• 47:52
  And at one point we're doing drills in this auxiliary gym.
• 47:56
  And I was like, I, I have an idea like, like, like John,
• 47:59
  like, do you mind? Because he's like, you know,
• 48:01
  some of these kids aren't quite getting this.
• 48:02
  I was like, can I try something? He's like, yeah, sure.
• 48:05
  And so I start walking kids through drills and, and, and
• 48:07
  technical pieces. He's like, OK, yeah.
• 48:10
  Well, Nope, You're good. Like we're going to let you like
• 48:13
  kind of do your thing. Gary, who was definitely more
• 48:17
  strength conditioning based. He was a big football guy.
• 48:21
  He was a Western Michigan football guy to back in the day
• 48:24
  play with Terry Crews and and then like when they won a
• 48:26
  championship. So like, but again, like this
• 48:29
  was a program that surrounded itself with great people and and
• 48:31
  Gary, lifelong friend, just I can't thank Gary enough for
• 48:37
  everything he did while we work together, right?
• 48:39
  But the time was kind of like, well, you know, you're a
• 48:41
  strength guy. I'm a technical guy.
• 48:44
  And we quickly got through that and realized that we have these
• 48:48
  strengths for each other and we can complement each other,
• 48:50
  right? And so we work together and over
• 48:54
  the next, you know, several years, we built a relatively
• 49:00
  strong program in the state of Michigan.
• 49:02
  We had consistent showings in our conference, our regional, we
• 49:07
  had state champion in 27. We had I'm always interested in
• 49:12
  our volunteer coaches because a big part of indie coach in
• 49:15
  college or high school is recruiting.
• 49:18
  Yeah, it's why it's it's absurd to me when the if I hear the
• 49:22
  other rumor or not the rumor, but the the myth that high
• 49:25
  school coaches can't coach college because they don't know
• 49:26
  about recruiting. It's like, man, every high
• 49:28
  school coach I've ever had on here tells you how important it
• 49:31
  is to walk those hallways and get those kids as a volunteer
• 49:34
  coach. Meaning, and I shouldn't say
• 49:36
  that as a non teaching code. You're not in the hallways, you
• 49:39
  know, in the morning there. How did how did you get those
• 49:42
  people out? I mean, it's great to coach
• 49:43
  them, but they got to be out there first.
• 49:46
  So my after my first year of like helping out the program, a
• 49:52
  position opened up in the middle school that shared the same
• 49:55
  campus. And so I said, OK, it was a
• 49:58
  paraprofessional position and a hall support, administrative
• 50:04
  support, right? Kind of the the catch all like
• 50:06
  whatever the admin needs you do, go do it, make sure kids aren't
• 50:08
  loitering the halls. And again, kind of shifted into
• 50:12
  a paraprofessional support role. I was like, you know what, this
• 50:17
  is great because I can see the kids in middle school, get them
• 50:20
  involved in middle school track and then bring them up through
• 50:22
  the high school and. That makes sense.
• 50:25
  And our program was unique in that our varsity head coaches
• 50:29
  could have say over the middle school coaches too.
• 50:31
  So they wanted someone in there differently they could to keep
• 50:35
  the pipeline going. So I told her head coach, I'm
• 50:37
  like, I'd like to be the one that kind of helps make the
• 50:39
  decision on the middle school throws coach.
• 50:42
  And so we had a couple of guys over the time that I was there
• 50:45
  that were good at what they did, but they did the same drills we
• 50:48
  did the same terminology we did so that kids had that flow.
• 50:53
  But we also would do some club stuff with our kids in the
• 50:57
  winter, right? You know, wait and hammer and
• 50:59
  and stuff. Well, winter and summer and so
• 51:03
  we would have a steady group that would go and do weight
• 51:05
  throw right and we'd go to those meets.
• 51:08
  And so our kids who weren't the best found a place to be, you
• 51:11
  know, be in kids and we really built a a fun culture there and
• 51:17
  so. You've got amazing people around
• 51:19
  you. Some, yeah, great coaches.
• 51:21
  Talked about Joe Frontier, another Guild Podcast alum.
• 51:26
  Are you doing any? So I call that that kind of
• 51:28
  stuff informal coaching education still very valuable.
• 51:32
  Not saying peer-to-peer is I mean, I think that's part of why
• 51:36
  we're seeing this quote UN quote tracflation that we have.
• 51:40
  There's we we're just better at communicating with each other
• 51:42
  and sharing ideas and being willing to to try different
• 51:45
  things. The formal side of coaching
• 51:47
  education is USATFUSTFCCCA, Altus, etcetera.
• 51:51
  Are you doing any of that at this point?
• 51:53
  So at that point I hadn't done that yet.
• 51:57
  Like when I first got to Northern I that what wasn't in
• 52:00
  my mind. I had done like 5 or 6 years of
• 52:04
  doing the Michigan track coaches.
• 52:08
  Convention one of the springs. Yeah, right.
• 52:11
  And so we go to Mika every spring before the track season
• 52:14
  started, and that was kind of my first foray into the formal
• 52:18
  coaching education. But then when I was in Portage,
• 52:23
  I was like, all right, we're going to be at this level, we
• 52:26
  need to step it up. And so it was I think probably
• 52:30
  2014, 2015, somewhere in there. I was like, I'm going to go to
• 52:32
  USATF level 1. I went to it down to Marion
• 52:36
  University in Indianapolis. And we had Larry Judge was one
• 52:40
  of the guys that helped out. And it was that was really kind
• 52:44
  of cool to pick his brain, too, and go through those things.
• 52:47
  It was amazing. But it also increased my love
• 52:51
  for the other events too, right? Because like I, I was always a
• 52:54
  fan of the other events, the running, jumping and even
• 52:57
  distance running, right? Like, I mean, to be a distance
• 52:58
  runner is a special gift. It really is.
• 53:04
  But it really gave me a better appreciation for all those.
• 53:06
  And being technically minded, it was nice to see it where all the
• 53:09
  puzzle pieces kind of fit in. So I did that and then through
• 53:14
  my time at Porsche Northern, you know, we'd had a lot of success.
• 53:18
  We, you know, had kids do well on hammer and wait and, and you
• 53:21
  know, just the whole game, right?
• 53:23
  Well, get to 2019 and my wife, who was working in the banking
• 53:31
  side had had lost a job due to downsizing, right, But found
• 53:38
  another job with Quicken Loans in Detroit and which was great
• 53:44
  for her and our family because she was going to be able to live
• 53:48
  closer to her mom and her siblings.
• 53:50
  And they're very tight knit. It was a little hard for us
• 53:55
  because we had just gotten a brand new track, like brand new
• 53:59
  throws facility. I helped design.
• 54:01
  And so I'm just like, Oh my gosh, I don't even get to see
• 54:06
  the grass folder, right. But then there was also the
• 54:11
  scary thing of like, where do I coach next?
• 54:17
  Right? And so I, I, I took an odd job
• 54:21
  flooring just to try and find something.
• 54:23
  And then I got a job in the schools just because it again,
• 54:27
  like I'm, I'm used to that. I, I like making difference in
• 54:29
  people's lives. So I was like, you know, that
• 54:30
  that works. But then we saw an ad pop up on,
• 54:36
  I think it was, you know, some job search site, right?
• 54:39
  And it was for a part time assistant thing at Rochester
• 54:45
  University, which is now Rochester Christian University.
• 54:48
  And I remember telling my wife, like, I, I don't think I should,
• 54:53
  like I, I, it, it hurt a lot leaving northern and, and, and
• 54:59
  for multiple reasons, right? So like, I left this work family
• 55:02
  I had, I had gotten to know for like 7, I left a program we had
• 55:06
  built up really well, a new facility.
• 55:10
  And then right before we left, my younger sister passed away.
• 55:14
  Oh no, like, like the like the day we were supposed to be
• 55:18
  getting in the moving trucks and moving out was the day she
• 55:20
  passed away. And so so now I'm leaving family
• 55:25
  and I'm grieving and like, so I had this mental health just.
• 55:30
  Yeah, bro, how do you do this? Yeah, this was.
• 55:33
  Yeah. So this was like, I was not in a
• 55:36
  great place, not at all. I mean, I, I had to go and talk
• 55:40
  to somebody and I, I tried a couple different people and it
• 55:42
  just, you know, trying to do anything to get centered, right.
• 55:47
  But I was like, man, like, I don't know if I'm in the right
• 55:49
  headspace for this and help with this.
• 55:52
  And my wife's like, look, I, I know who you are when you're not
• 55:55
  coaching and it's kind of a shell of who you normally are,
• 56:00
  right, Because coaching kind of helps like, yeah, really balance
• 56:03
  me out and, and fills my tank, if you will, right.
• 56:06
  And so I was like, you know what, I'll go interview for it.
• 56:09
  Sure, why not? I said, look, I, I can help out
• 56:12
  as a like a volunteer. I don't, I don't necessarily
• 56:16
  need to do the part time thing. You don't need to pay me.
• 56:17
  Just I can come in maybe like on the weekends and help, you know,
• 56:21
  just just something right, Just not to try and overdo it.
• 56:26
  And I had an interview with the head coach of time, Alex Wilson.
• 56:30
  And Alex was a younger coach himself too, and he was a
• 56:33
  Michigan State guy and and then had coached a little bit, I
• 56:37
  think it Wayne for a year and then at a high school and then
• 56:40
  was the assistant. Then kind of quickly came
• 56:42
  through to the head at Rochester.
• 56:46
  But I went and I did this interview with him and the
• 56:49
  assistant AD at the time at the end, just kind of like, well,
• 56:54
  you kind of have more qualifications than than anyone
• 56:56
  else we had had here. You have your level 1 yet like
• 56:59
  you have like you want the job. Yeah, right.
• 57:04
  I was like, sure. And as soon as that happened, it
• 57:13
  was kind of funny because one of the athletes I had coached club
• 57:17
  wise back in Portage, she was going to go to Western.
• 57:19
  They had lost their whole coaching staff.
• 57:21
  They were, they were. They were doing a cutting of the
• 57:22
  program. Yeah, that's.
• 57:24
  Right. And so she's like, I don't know,
• 57:25
  like, if my space is still there, I was like, why don't you
• 57:29
  come throw for me then? For another four years?
• 57:30
  Yeah. And she's like, on it.
• 57:33
  Let's go. Wow.
• 57:35
  So we jumped in and then that's when, like now you got to learn
• 57:40
  more about actually recruiting, right?
• 57:42
  Like going out there and, and making the conversations and
• 57:45
  going to the places, meet the people.
• 57:47
  And it was very much a crash course because in a, in an AIA
• 57:52
  program that was underfunded then, right?
• 57:58
  I, I, I don't know how they're funded now, but like, it was
• 58:00
  certainly underfunded at the time.
• 58:02
  Yeah. We were trying to stretch the
• 58:03
  dollar out of a dime, right? But I didn't want that to hinder
• 58:08
  what we could do. And so keep in mind, though,
• 58:12
  this is all around 2019. And then COVID hits.
• 58:16
  Yeah, the. Hammer's dropping, yeah.
• 58:19
  And so, boy, the world shuts down in our area.
• 58:22
  Everything shut down. Yeah, Michigan.
• 58:24
  We were. You're pretty much just staying
• 58:26
  home, like not going anywhere. It just the the amount of Legos
• 58:31
  and Hot Wheels though for our our kiddo.
• 58:34
  Just goodness gracious. I'll tell you what, wow.
• 58:39
  And I know other COVID parents are going to be like same.
• 58:45
  But then coming back from that as we are doing the return to
• 58:48
  work protocols, I know that coach Wilson and his wife were
• 58:52
  expecting a little one and there was some concerns there for
• 58:55
  health. And so he stepped away for
• 58:57
  concerns over the little one's health, which I respect, right?
• 59:01
  I mean, you don't want to take that risk with your little one,
• 59:05
  but because of that, all right, He's like, hey, like, what's up?
• 59:10
  Because like he told me in a phone call and like 2 minutes
• 59:13
  later, I'm getting a phone call from the AD.
• 59:14
  Like, did you know, like, what's going on?
• 59:16
  I was like, Nope, I did not, but I'll throw my hat in because I
• 59:22
  mean, at that point, like, why not?
• 59:23
  Right. I mean, yeah, Yeah.
• 59:25
  Well, we'll learn it as we go if we need to.
• 59:28
  And so then I was named a head coach and that was interesting
• 59:34
  because it was head for cross and track, right?
• 59:36
  And not knowing as much cross stuff.
• 59:40
  The the one thing I leaned on from my former coach Aaron
• 59:44
  Kaylor was find people that are smarter than you and help them
• 59:48
  out. And it must have been, you know,
• 59:51
  the universe sending a prayer, right?
• 59:54
  Because I get a call from Paul Rice over at Oakland says, hey,
• 59:58
  I got this guy just graduated. He's an all American, the
• 1:00:02
  steeple. Maybe you want to give him a
• 1:00:06
  chance as a distance guy. I'm like, sure, yeah, we're
• 1:00:09
  going to give him a chance. Get his ass here now.
• 1:00:13
  And we had just hired a Sprint jumps guy.
• 1:00:15
  So like our distance guy was Andrew Bowman and our Sprint
• 1:00:19
  jumps guy was Marcus Johnson. These are two of the best guys I
• 1:00:23
  know. Like seriously.
• 1:00:24
  I mean, the passion they pour into their athletes is
• 1:00:27
  infectious. Just the energy they bring.
• 1:00:30
  It's certainly different energy, but it balances and complements
• 1:00:33
  so well at the three of us. I mean, we just, we kind of
• 1:00:36
  became this machine and we were recruiting kids well and we were
• 1:00:40
  making full of things work because like we didn't have a
• 1:00:43
  track, right? So we were using a middle school
• 1:00:45
  track to do some training. We were running outside, running
• 1:00:48
  on treadmills. Eventually we got into an indoor
• 1:00:50
  soccer complex where we could throw and and jump and, you
• 1:00:54
  know, trying everything we could to stay relevant and competitive
• 1:00:57
  in a conference that had Indiana Tech, Cornerstone, Sienna
• 1:01:07
  Heights, Madonna, Lawrence Tech. I was just like.
• 1:01:10
  Wow, holy. Yeah.
• 1:01:12
  So I mean, doing what we could, right.
• 1:01:16
  And, and we did well. Like over our our time there, I
• 1:01:19
  think our kids broke like 56 school records between the
• 1:01:23
  various events and we were moving the needle in the right
• 1:01:26
  direction, starting to move up in the conference.
• 1:01:30
  And we were there for a few years.
• 1:01:31
  And it was one of those things where, you know, money is what
• 1:01:36
  it is, right? And I was doing the head
• 1:01:40
  coaching role at one point and having to do the sports
• 1:01:43
  information director role. So I was going to multiple
• 1:01:46
  different sporting events across multiple things.
• 1:01:49
  It was a lot of stuff on our family and a lot of being gone.
• 1:01:55
  Very blessed their in laws were around to be able to help with
• 1:01:57
  that for sure. But it was taxing, right?
• 1:02:02
  And it was not for a great deal of, of money in the salary.
• 1:02:08
  So an opportunity came up for our family, for myself and and
• 1:02:15
  my wife, when we saw a position for Goshen College open up.
• 1:02:21
  And we said, all right, you know what, we'll go down there and
• 1:02:24
  we'll do what we can if they're willing to take us.
• 1:02:27
  And so they were. And it was, you know, just as
• 1:02:29
  the head coach for these pieces for track and field, because
• 1:02:33
  they had a head coach for Cross. I was like, all right, yeah,
• 1:02:38
  that's fine. We can we can do this.
• 1:02:39
  We can work together. So we made the move down, hated
• 1:02:44
  leaving Rochester because we love the kids, right?
• 1:02:47
  We love what we were building there.
• 1:02:50
  But before we left, we had asked one of our former athletes who
• 1:02:55
  was there when I first got there, a woman named Emma
• 1:02:57
  Fickle, if she would consider helping out as a volunteer.
• 1:03:01
  Kind of knowing that, like, if things went well, I might take
• 1:03:04
  this other role. And so we were trying to set the
• 1:03:07
  stage because she was a local gal.
• 1:03:09
  She's got a lot of love for the school.
• 1:03:10
  She graduated there is like a townie, right?
• 1:03:14
  So I was like, man, if if anyone can breathe love and life into
• 1:03:18
  this program, it's going to be her, right?
• 1:03:20
  Well, also knowing that my other two assistants are fantastic
• 1:03:25
  people, that they were going to get offers soon, too.
• 1:03:28
  I'm like, we, you have to stage and seed for the future, right?
• 1:03:32
  I didn't want this to be a thing where we just, we did a thing
• 1:03:34
  and left. I wanted this to be something
• 1:03:36
  that could grow because it's not about us, it's about the
• 1:03:38
  program. And so I was like, come on, help
• 1:03:43
  out with this. And so when I left and then
• 1:03:46
  another coach left and she moved up and then another coach left
• 1:03:49
  and now she's the head coach for track and field in the program.
• 1:03:55
  And they've done some good stuff and continue the success that we
• 1:03:59
  had there. And it's just, it's a beautiful
• 1:04:02
  thing to see. And Coach Fickle is doing such
• 1:04:04
  wonderful things with her kids. Like I'm I'm so proud of who she
• 1:04:08
  is as a coach and empowering her athletes.
• 1:04:13
  But yeah, like that, that was kind of a cool way to kind of
• 1:04:15
  like help get back. What, what, what year did What
• 1:04:19
  track season was your first year as a head coach at Goshen?
• 1:04:23
  So we were in the, let's see, I believe we left 22, so the 2223
• 1:04:28
  school year. So becoming a head coach is
• 1:04:31
  extremely hard. Yeah.
• 1:04:34
  You know, as an assistant coach, we sometimes forget, like we
• 1:04:36
  have a pretty good. We really just need to focus on
• 1:04:38
  our, yeah, mint area and maybe the head coach allows us to do
• 1:04:42
  equipment or scheduling or whatever, but really we just, we
• 1:04:46
  have our one area to concern ourselves with.
• 1:04:48
  The head coach has to concern themselves with an area
• 1:04:51
  typically, but also the entire rest of the team.
• 1:04:54
  I can't imagine how hard that would be during COVID.
• 1:04:57
  I mean, we had experienced coaches that struggled during
• 1:05:00
  COVID for, for many reasons. It was new for everybody, but
• 1:05:04
  you went in as the head coach at Rochester during COVID and you
• 1:05:08
  didn't know what you didn't know, meaning you didn't know
• 1:05:09
  what it was to be a head coach of a collegiate program.
• 1:05:12
  You learned along the way. Now you get to go.
• 1:05:15
  It's almost like you get a reset here because now we're in closer
• 1:05:18
  to normal times in the 23 tracks.
• 1:05:21
  A little bit, yeah. How was that different for you?
• 1:05:25
  Well, a few ways like #1 they were a little bit better funded,
• 1:05:29
  right? So they had a little bit more
• 1:05:30
  support. They had a facility outdoors and
• 1:05:33
  a quasi training facility indoors.
• 1:05:37
  So I mean that that certainly made the recruiting a lot
• 1:05:40
  easier. They had a little bit bigger
• 1:05:42
  campus, but this is a program, again, that had been a
• 1:05:47
  relatively small team. I mean, they, they had success
• 1:05:50
  throughout the years for sure. But team wise, we're finishing
• 1:05:55
  like 9th and 10th in the conference.
• 1:05:57
  And again, we, we, I mean with us in perspective, Mike, we went
• 1:06:00
  from the, the WAC with Indiana Tech and all of them.
• 1:06:04
  So now we're in the crossroads with Marion and Indiana
• 1:06:06
  Wesleyan. So it's like probably just can't
• 1:06:08
  catch a break. What do they say?
• 1:06:10
  Out of the frying pan into the fire?
• 1:06:12
  Yeah, Holy cow. I mean, it was this was this is
• 1:06:15
  a lot, right? And so we get out to Goshen and
• 1:06:20
  it's very clear that there was a culture that was there already
• 1:06:24
  that was very distance oriented, right?
• 1:06:27
  And we had a couple of sprinters, we had a thrower.
• 1:06:35
  I mean, it was it was not what it could have been, right?
• 1:06:42
  And I'm a guy that likes to build things to what they could
• 1:06:45
  be, right? So we kind of set out a plan,
• 1:06:50
  said, all right, we're going to try and bring in X number of
• 1:06:53
  kids and we're trying to bring in more sprinters, more jumpers,
• 1:06:56
  more throwers. And this is where I think some
• 1:07:03
  of the the pieces kind of found the place where the all right,
• 1:07:07
  cool. How do you want to approach the
• 1:07:09
  recruiting? How do you want to approach how
• 1:07:11
  you build this team? Like what are the important
• 1:07:13
  pieces that you need? Right?
• 1:07:15
  And so we went after sprinters and jumpers, right?
• 1:07:21
  Because you can, I mean, you know, as well as I do, there's
• 1:07:24
  so many programs that can do well with just those events,
• 1:07:26
  right? And yes, we went after throwers
• 1:07:28
  too. Our distance coach was primarily
• 1:07:31
  covering the distance recruits and cross recruits.
• 1:07:33
  So I was like, cool, not worried about that at all.
• 1:07:38
  But as we start to get more people in, one of one of the
• 1:07:44
  things that we had talked about was when I came there is making
• 1:07:47
  sure we could, you know, support our athletes when we got there
• 1:07:50
  and things I was told that would be in place as supports were not
• 1:07:59
  followed through. And it was clear that the vision
• 1:08:05
  of what we had talked about coming in the air view of how we
• 1:08:09
  wanted to build the program become more successful was not
• 1:08:12
  the same vision that they had had as as a department.
• 1:08:15
  And and that's OK, right? I mean everyone, everyone is
• 1:08:18
  different and not everyone is the right coach for a place.
• 1:08:22
  Yeah, but it's not OK, Sean. And what I mean by that, this is
• 1:08:25
  something I have passion about because I've seen this through
• 1:08:27
  the coaching, recruiting, the interview process.
• 1:08:32
  And I see it in the private sector as well when we're
• 1:08:34
  interviewing. Yeah, both the interviewer and
• 1:08:37
  the interviewee, we, we put on this play, you know, the the
• 1:08:41
  interviewee thinks every time the question is asked, well,
• 1:08:44
  what are they really looking for?
• 1:08:46
  How should I answer so that, you know, it's the answer they want.
• 1:08:49
  In reality, it's like, dude, I just want you to be yourself.
• 1:08:52
  And because if you're yourself and you don't get the job, well,
• 1:08:56
  thank God for both of us. You know, you can only fake who
• 1:08:59
  you are for so long. And so when you get to the
• 1:09:01
  actual job, you're going to be who you are.
• 1:09:03
  And then you know, the person who interviewed goes, wait a
• 1:09:05
  minute, who's this guy? This isn't who you, you said you
• 1:09:08
  had these goals and blah, blah, blah.
• 1:09:09
  So when I hear you say, Hey, I'm, I'm filling in some words
• 1:09:14
  here. So correct me where I maybe I
• 1:09:16
  misunderstood. Hey, during the recruiting
• 1:09:17
  process, we're we're going to support you with X and our goals
• 1:09:21
  are Y and we want to work together in Z.
• 1:09:24
  And then when you actually got there, it's like, Oh yeah, no,
• 1:09:26
  that none of that was actually true.
• 1:09:28
  We want to focus over here on AB and C.
• 1:09:30
  That is not OK. It is OK that they wanted to
• 1:09:33
  focus on something differently, but they should have been
• 1:09:35
  upfront with you from the jump and then you could have decided,
• 1:09:38
  Oh yeah, that's not for me. And both people would because
• 1:09:41
  they're not happy that you're not there either.
• 1:09:43
  Now, you know, saying that that caused set back on their own
• 1:09:46
  plans. We got to be more upfront notice
• 1:09:48
  during interviewing processes guys.
• 1:09:50
  I mean, it, it certainly caused some setbacks, but it in, in all
• 1:09:54
  honesty, like if, if we're being just completely open about this,
• 1:09:58
  the kids that we recruited and, and, and the kids that came
• 1:10:01
  there and the kids that stayed there, I mean, they helped those
• 1:10:04
  teams reach rankings in their conference that they hadn't
• 1:10:07
  reached in like 20 years. So you can't do good things, I'm
• 1:10:11
  saying. No, I'm not saying you're not,
• 1:10:13
  but I'm saying like even the small impact that we made.
• 1:10:16
  I'm passionate about this because I had this happen to me
• 1:10:19
  at the JUCO system. I'll just point everybody knows
• 1:10:21
  I coached at New York County and I don't even know if the AD is
• 1:10:23
  in the president still there. I don't know.
• 1:10:24
  I don't care because when I got there, when I got the job in
• 1:10:28
  May, they had three kids returning.
• 1:10:30
  So I used all summer to recruit when they were having 15.
• 1:10:33
  Not a bad job, not a great job, but I only had 15 kids to coach
• 1:10:36
  for the whole 2001 season, right?
• 1:10:38
  So what did I do the majority time I recruited?
• 1:10:40
  And as I'm recruiting these kids, really good kids by the
• 1:10:42
  way, but a lot of kids, because in junior college, especially in
• 1:10:44
  Kansas, especially during that time, it was about butts and
• 1:10:47
  bets. And so as I'm signing more and
• 1:10:49
  more kids and we're going to have a bigger team than we've
• 1:10:51
  ever had, you know, I go to the AD and the president like, hey,
• 1:10:53
  so that's going to cost us more. I need more uniforms.
• 1:10:57
  I can't do it with two vans anymore.
• 1:10:58
  All this kind of stuff. No worries Mike, we're making so
• 1:11:01
  much money with these kids you're bringing in, you're going
• 1:11:03
  to get it, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:11:05
  Started the second season and I get my budget and it's not one
• 1:11:08
  penny more. And I was like, guys, why you
• 1:11:12
  told me to go get the kids. I did.
• 1:11:14
  I can't not take them to meet. I mean, you know, I can't just
• 1:11:17
  take two vans and leave the rest of the 60 kids at the house.
• 1:11:20
  We'll get there my next season. But and I was like, bull crap.
• 1:11:23
  You lied to me, you lied to me. Those guys lied to me, which
• 1:11:27
  made me a liar to those kids, which made their experience not
• 1:11:32
  as good as it could and should have been.
• 1:11:34
  And, and if they would have said, Mike, look, we want 100
• 1:11:38
  kids on the team, but you're not going to get any more budget.
• 1:11:40
  I would have recruited differently.
• 1:11:43
  Oh yeah, I mean, seriously. I would have recruited different
• 1:11:46
  types of athletes. But I, I think there's also
• 1:11:48
  something to be said about if a program is one way for an, for a
• 1:11:52
  so long, right? Like, like, and, and this
• 1:11:54
  program in particular was a distance oriented program,
• 1:11:56
  right? So if you're getting a lot of
• 1:11:58
  distance kids, you're not getting a lot of throwers, not
• 1:12:00
  getting a lot of jumpers, you're not spending a whole lot on
• 1:12:03
  equipment either that you need to facilitate them to be
• 1:12:05
  successful. And you're getting your uniforms
• 1:12:08
  and stuff. But like, you know, whether it's
• 1:12:11
  cross budget is track budget, you know, whatever, right?
• 1:12:13
  But like now you can kind of work whatever when you've got 2
• 1:12:17
  separate things. Now it's like this is this is
• 1:12:21
  necessity to be able to facilitate these.
• 1:12:23
  So like one thing we talked about was.
• 1:12:25
  I agree with you. What you said, Sean, was they
• 1:12:27
  told me they were going to support me this way and then
• 1:12:29
  when I got there it was different.
• 1:12:30
  That's called a lie. It is.
• 1:12:32
  It is. That is what I have a real
• 1:12:35
  problem with. Administrators, head coaches,
• 1:12:36
  when they're interviewing assistant coaches.
• 1:12:38
  The reverse I have as well, by the way, the assistant coach who
• 1:12:41
  says I'm going to be able to do XY and Z and then says, yeah, I
• 1:12:44
  don't really want to do that. When they get the job, that is
• 1:12:46
  Also, we've got to be more upfront and honest so that
• 1:12:49
  people can decide not to take jobs.
• 1:12:51
  Yeah, that's the crazy part. When people think about when you
• 1:12:54
  interview, you should not take a job.
• 1:12:56
  If you're like, oh, you want this person to be yada yada,
• 1:12:59
  yada. Well, I'm not that person, so I
• 1:13:01
  shouldn't take this job. That's a success.
• 1:13:03
  Well, and so one one thing that I had talked about too, and I
• 1:13:06
  don't know if if younger coaches are out there and they're
• 1:13:08
  thinking about programs and like, and so they don't fall on
• 1:13:11
  this pitfall, right. One thing I did was I looked at
• 1:13:16
  what it would potentially cost a student athlete to be there,
• 1:13:18
  right? Like, you know, roughly how much
• 1:13:21
  for a new uniform for them, how much for, you know, if you had
• 1:13:24
  to divvy up their meet entry fee over the course of X number of
• 1:13:27
  meet, how much for meals? You know what, kids?
• 1:13:29
  Are costing you? Right.
• 1:13:30
  And I was like, you know, like 15 to 1700 at a minimum per kid
• 1:13:34
  per year. I'm like if, if we're doing at
• 1:13:36
  least that, like if we're increasing the budget to at
• 1:13:38
  least cover the bare minimum, right.
• 1:13:41
  I think that works because you can't feed a team of 60 on a
• 1:13:45
  budget for a team of 30. Agreed.
• 1:13:47
  Right. And so it was a, it was like 6
• 1:13:52
  or 7 different answers of well, you know, it's coming, it's
• 1:13:56
  coming, it, it might be coming. Well, it's we, we got to find
• 1:14:01
  it. And, you know, I, we're still
• 1:14:04
  looking for it and that, well, it, it's not going to be there.
• 1:14:07
  And then it's well, while you brought in more kids, we've had
• 1:14:11
  bigger teams in the past who haven't needed this.
• 1:14:14
  And it's like, yes, but but what exactly did those teams need?
• 1:14:19
  Where, where was the budget coming from for those kids?
• 1:14:21
  Was it coming from another part of it or this?
• 1:14:24
  And so like it, it became this whole thing where I was like,
• 1:14:26
  you know, that's difficult number one, right?
• 1:14:31
  But another piece though. And again, like, yeah, we, we
• 1:14:34
  talked in the in the pre interview, right?
• 1:14:36
  If we're just being open and honest, right?
• 1:14:40
  The other thing was the coaching staff has to share the vision
• 1:14:43
  for what's going to happen. If they don't, it doesn't work.
• 1:14:46
  And so if you have members of your staff who feel like, well,
• 1:14:50
  this is how we've always done it, well, that's great, but how
• 1:14:54
  you've always done it is currently leading you tonight,
• 1:14:56
  the 10th of the conference. That's a problem.
• 1:15:01
  Or if people don't want to recruit, or if people don't want
• 1:15:03
  to be part of those processes. Yeah, I'm not saying everyone in
• 1:15:07
  our staff was like that, Like not at all did.
• 1:15:09
  You inherit that staff or did you hire that staff?
• 1:15:12
  Inherit it, Yeah, that's a. That's a concern because first
• 1:15:17
  of all, one of the things that I think we as athletic departments
• 1:15:20
  need to do a better job of is, you know, we we talk a lot about
• 1:15:24
  coaching education about, you know, going to the USATF level 1
• 1:15:27
  level twos, talking to your peers, things like that about
• 1:15:29
  how to coach in this example, throwers better.
• 1:15:33
  We never in USTFCCA starting to do a better job at this not a
• 1:15:37
  great job. And I'm not sure it's their
• 1:15:39
  responsibility. So I'm not calling them out.
• 1:15:42
  It's it's, it's administrations, athletic administrations,
• 1:15:44
  athletic departments that I'd really be calling out here.
• 1:15:47
  We never when when we hire our first time head coaches, never
• 1:15:52
  ever have I heard of anyone being sat down saying, OK, so
• 1:15:55
  you're going to now be in charge of a staff.
• 1:15:58
  So that means hiring and that means maybe firing, by the way,
• 1:16:01
  which means evaluating, you know, annual evaluations,
• 1:16:03
  etcetera. Here's best practices.
• 1:16:06
  No one's ever been taught how to hire people.
• 1:16:08
  So when we go out and hire, when we hired, I don't even want to
• 1:16:12
  say typically it's easier for us to hire people that we know or
• 1:16:15
  that we're friends with or or a referral and that may not be the
• 1:16:18
  right person for you. So I have a real big beef on
• 1:16:21
  that. The other beef I have is when
• 1:16:24
  you, so that's one if you get the higher staff, if you inherit
• 1:16:28
  your staff, that is a whole Sean, I believe you should have
• 1:16:32
  had training on. Hey, so you've got a staff and
• 1:16:35
  by the way, they were not yours that you didn't pick these guys
• 1:16:38
  and gals. So here are some trainings on
• 1:16:41
  how to lead them. You're going to you're going to
• 1:16:43
  come into some barriers, potential barriers because of
• 1:16:47
  this. So let us help you because
• 1:16:49
  that's what administration they should be doing.
• 1:16:50
  They should be supporting coaches.
• 1:16:52
  Well, I, I think part of the part of the barrier though was
• 1:16:56
  just off the jump. I mean, we had a lot of part
• 1:16:59
  time coaches, right, who were getting small stipends.
• 1:17:03
  And so it's like there's a mentality of and I, which kind
• 1:17:08
  of threw me for a loop. I wasn't I wasn't used to it
• 1:17:10
  when I got down here. We'll say, if I'm not getting
• 1:17:14
  paid for it, I'm not doing it right.
• 1:17:16
  And everywhere I've been at Michigan was a hey, whatever we
• 1:17:21
  can do to help, like how it like whatever, if it takes extra, it
• 1:17:24
  takes extra, we just do it right.
• 1:17:25
  So this was kind of like a culture clash a little bit,
• 1:17:28
  right? And I was like, man, like this
• 1:17:29
  is just this is wild. Like, I don't get this, but we
• 1:17:35
  were able to make one coaching transition at the end of the
• 1:17:38
  first year to help our sprints program, which has now
• 1:17:41
  flourished, right? Because that person was in there
• 1:17:44
  now to do her thing. And she was also the only woman
• 1:17:49
  we had on staff when I brought her on.
• 1:17:50
  So I was like, cool, we need someone our female athletes can
• 1:17:53
  connect with. Like that's great, but Goshen
• 1:17:58
  isn't a big metropolis. I think it's a smaller town,
• 1:18:01
  right? So finding knowledgeable people
• 1:18:03
  in your area like can be a little bit harder, right?
• 1:18:05
  And so like you take what you can have for sure, but that,
• 1:18:13
  that's also part of the problem with our sport too, right?
• 1:18:15
  It's like we, we can carry 3 or 4 full time people for some
• 1:18:19
  sports like court sports, right? Where everyone's on the field or
• 1:18:22
  court doing the same exact thing, but for a sport that
• 1:18:27
  requires 24 plus specialties and one thing might be a mile away
• 1:18:34
  because it has to be a mile away, right?
• 1:18:36
  Like that sort of support should be there.
• 1:18:39
  But like that's that's my soapbox.
• 1:18:41
  Right. No, agreed, Sean.
• 1:18:42
  It's it's, it's interesting. You're you're almost a where I'm
• 1:18:46
  having struggles here is you're almost apologetic for the lack
• 1:18:52
  of training from administration and and departments.
• 1:18:55
  Even though you've been through this, what you're describing
• 1:18:59
  here's and here's a this is a good lesson for people not to
• 1:19:03
  judge one of the we've had amazing coaches here, but one of
• 1:19:07
  my absolute favorite episodes. George Williams, now we're tired
• 1:19:11
  from Saint Aug's. And yeah, I learned that
• 1:19:13
  actually from Brooks Johnson. Rest in peace when he was on the
• 1:19:15
  show. But yeah, George has a
• 1:19:17
  statement, has a philosophy, if you will say.
• 1:19:19
  And if you're not in the huddle, you don't know the play.
• 1:19:22
  And it really affected me. It's like, oh, yeah, when that
• 1:19:25
  dude cuts me off on the road, I actually have no clue what's
• 1:19:27
  going on in that person's life. They might have just gotten a
• 1:19:30
  horrific call from a family member.
• 1:19:32
  Fire who know. Whatever.
• 1:19:33
  Why Judge, move on. I didn't get hurt.
• 1:19:35
  Let's move on. So the same thing when we look
• 1:19:38
  at coaching Staffs and we look at whatever XYZ university and
• 1:19:42
  go, oh man, they're not very good at the insert event fee.
• 1:19:46
  I'm going to use throws because you're here.
• 1:19:48
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, your. Throws not very good and it's
• 1:19:51
  like you have no idea that person might be getting 0
• 1:19:53
  scholarships that coach might be a volunteer coach that coach and
• 1:19:58
  you're like and and you can and it's easy from.
• 1:20:02
  From past experiences, etcetera, or your own motivations or how
• 1:20:05
  you think you would do the job. It's easy to go, yeah, but boy,
• 1:20:09
  I didn't come from that mentality.
• 1:20:10
  I don't care if you got paid or not.
• 1:20:11
  You did the best you could. You don't know if that and I'm
• 1:20:14
  mythical. I'm not pointing.
• 1:20:15
  Right, right, right, right. You don't know if that volunteer
• 1:20:17
  coach, Yeah, I work 80 hours a week at this CIO job and then
• 1:20:22
  come and help for a couple hours.
• 1:20:23
  I'm sorry, not sorry that I don't poor 100%.
• 1:20:26
  I don't have 100. I have 1% left for this kids.
• 1:20:29
  By the way, the alternate, you could get rid of me.
• 1:20:31
  That's why I'm a volunteer. But the alternative is 0%.
• 1:20:33
  By the way, you don't have anybody.
• 1:20:34
  We're in small town USA here. So I'm just saying that all
• 1:20:39
  those things that I talk about there.
• 1:20:41
  Now back to the real world, Sean, when you take over a staff
• 1:20:43
  is those are things that I believe in athletic
• 1:20:46
  administrations to sit down with our newly hired head coaches and
• 1:20:51
  talk through and have the right expectations.
• 1:20:55
  Sean, we're going to, you're going to have a staff of three,
• 1:20:57
  whatever the number was. I don't even know what it was a
• 1:20:59
  staff of three by the way, all three are are either part times
• 1:21:02
  or one is actually a volunteer. Because of that, Sean, we know
• 1:21:07
  our basketball coach, we have 4 coaches over there.
• 1:21:09
  They're all full time. So I have a little bit higher
• 1:21:11
  expectations of what they're going to do in conference.
• 1:21:14
  The expectation is going. To be a little lower and I don't
• 1:21:16
  have 0 expectations for you Sean, you are full time.
• 1:21:19
  But but you know what, you have a volunteer pole ball coach.
• 1:21:23
  I'm not going to expect. Oh by the way, we have no budget
• 1:21:26
  for polls and stuff. I'm not going to expect
• 1:21:29
  conference champs conference. You'll be excused on that.
• 1:21:32
  If you do, God bless you. You must be a miracle worker.
• 1:21:35
  But that is what is not happening on a daily basis, and
• 1:21:38
  I fervently believe it should be.
• 1:21:41
  Well, and a lot of times that expectation is Simply put butts
• 1:21:44
  in seats. 100% Hey, I mean and that's.
• 1:21:47
  OK, if that's what's? Expressed to you during an
• 1:21:50
  interview, Sean. Yeah.
• 1:21:52
  You get to choose. Because here's the thing, They
• 1:21:54
  can't tell you. Hey, Sean, I don't care how good
• 1:21:56
  you do. You can last while I care.
• 1:21:58
  But minimum 100 kids on the team, as long as they say that
• 1:22:03
  during the interview process, then you're responsible.
• 1:22:05
  If they offer the job and you take it and then say, yeah, I
• 1:22:08
  don't really like that. I want, I'm a competitive, I
• 1:22:10
  don't want to be last. I want to be 6.
• 1:22:12
  And that might mean only 60 kids and you get in trouble for it.
• 1:22:15
  That's on you, bro. But they told you.
• 1:22:16
  But I don't think people are. I don't think they're actually
• 1:22:18
  telling our coaches during interview processes that.
• 1:22:21
  Right. So you don't get to make that
• 1:22:23
  choice of do I want this job or not.
• 1:22:25
  Well, and we certainly had roster expectations coming in,
• 1:22:29
  right. And like year one, when you have
• 1:22:31
  hardly anybody on the team, like that's really hard because if
• 1:22:34
  there's no training group, why would someone go there, right?
• 1:22:37
  So like year one, we had a smaller group year 2 before we
• 1:22:42
  ended up stepping away because I was like, you know, if if this
• 1:22:45
  is how you want to do these things that I'm not the guy that
• 1:22:50
  you should have leading this because the direction you want
• 1:22:52
  to take in the direction I want to take a very different.
• 1:22:54
  That's right. But up until that point, we had
• 1:22:56
  18 people already signed and we still had several people like on
• 1:23:00
  the hook to go, right. So like we were going to be
• 1:23:01
  above our number. And I said, well, if you've got
• 1:23:03
  that many people and remember like these aren't distance kids.
• 1:23:07
  These are sprinters, drivers, throwers and hurdlers, vaulters,
• 1:23:10
  whatever. So I'm like, if we bring in that
• 1:23:11
  many this year, then we could potentially bring in that many
• 1:23:15
  the next year, right? Because now we've got a bigger
• 1:23:17
  training group, so more kids come, you get a few studs and
• 1:23:20
  now it's going to attract a few more studs and so on and so
• 1:23:23
  forth. So I'm like, like I, I, I had
• 1:23:26
  this chart in my office. It was like a five year road
• 1:23:28
  map, right? And so all of my athletes could
• 1:23:30
  come and see it too and be like each year I want to get this
• 1:23:33
  many of this event, this event, this event.
• 1:23:36
  I said, look, my goal, like you guys are here.
• 1:23:39
  My goal is to recruit someone to come in here because by the end
• 1:23:42
  of this year, you should be here.
• 1:23:44
  And now we have a bunch of people at this level.
• 1:23:46
  And then next year's recruiting group will be here and then
• 1:23:49
  everyone raises up again, right? So the, the rising tides raise
• 1:23:51
  all ships. And so I want to be as very
• 1:23:55
  clear as I could with our athletes about that, right?
• 1:23:57
  And so like, that's why I always had it up in my office.
• 1:24:00
  But this was a, again, this was a lot of moving in a new
• 1:24:04
  direction very quickly. And I think that's if you're not
• 1:24:08
  used to it, right? If you're not used to doing
• 1:24:10
  those things, you're just used to the same old, same old or it
• 1:24:12
  be, this is how we've always done it.
• 1:24:14
  That's really scary, right? That that's kind of unsettling
• 1:24:18
  sometimes. And not everyone is prepared for
• 1:24:21
  it, right? If you're going to go into a
• 1:24:24
  role, like you said, that there needs to be some honesty there
• 1:24:27
  and some openness. But it.
• 1:24:29
  Should take out the word some in that sentence you just said, by
• 1:24:31
  the way. Yeah, that need to be some
• 1:24:34
  honesty. There needs to be honesty.
• 1:24:38
  But there has to be, you know, that that clarity to say, hey,
• 1:24:42
  this is exactly what we're looking for.
• 1:24:43
  Agreed. And this is this is exactly what
• 1:24:46
  we need you to do. And I think there needs to be
• 1:24:49
  some, we'll take out some. There needs to be clarity back
• 1:24:53
  from the coaches to say, look, you have no facility or a
• 1:24:58
  dilapidated facility or you don't have a budget.
• 1:25:01
  So realistically this is what you can expect and at some
• 1:25:07
  point. The only thing I would have.
• 1:25:08
  To be a balance. The only thing I would small
• 1:25:11
  push back there is I don't think it's the interview ease place to
• 1:25:16
  say hey you want X but you only have YZ and A That's not gonna I
• 1:25:20
  I it's the interviewees position to go.
• 1:25:22
  Oh cool, that's what you said. Well I see you only have blah
• 1:25:24
  blah blah blah blah. This ain't the job for me.
• 1:25:26
  Good luck. Well, no, I'm saying like if
• 1:25:29
  you're the person that they're going to make the offer to,
• 1:25:31
  right, Like I think there, there does need to be that clarity to
• 1:25:35
  say, look like this is what I think realistically we can do.
• 1:25:38
  OK, this is a mistake, Sean. Here's why here here's one of
• 1:25:42
  the first things, but to become a really like I change from
• 1:25:48
  being a sales salesman salesperson to a sales
• 1:25:52
  professional when I got it through my thick skull.
• 1:25:56
  And by the way, you can insert coach into this, by the way,
• 1:25:58
  because is selling when I realize it is not my job to
• 1:26:03
  convince you to buy my product. It is not your job to convince a
• 1:26:07
  kid to come to your school. It it's not you ain't changing
• 1:26:10
  no one's mind. You're not now your school may
• 1:26:15
  scratch the itch of that kids needs and wants.
• 1:26:18
  That's different because your job is to go find those kids who
• 1:26:21
  have the things that your school has.
• 1:26:23
  OK, good, perfect. Thank you.
• 1:26:25
  The same thing. Your job as a candidate for a
• 1:26:27
  job. Your, your role as a, as a
• 1:26:30
  candidate for a job is not to convince that person who's
• 1:26:33
  hiring you, Hey, if you change this, hey, if you change your
• 1:26:36
  expectation, that school ain't going to change their
• 1:26:39
  expectations. Because you say, you know, I
• 1:26:42
  know you want 100 kids on the team, but I think you should go
• 1:26:44
  for 75 because you don't have a the current team.
• 1:26:48
  I don't want them to change your expectations.
• 1:26:50
  I want them to understand what where I'm at.
• 1:26:53
  And again, I'm going to be the outlier in this, right?
• 1:26:56
  I'm going to be the guy that probably doesn't get a lot of
• 1:26:58
  those jobs, and that's OK. That's 100% OK.
• 1:27:02
  But absolutely, I would rather be opening up front and say,
• 1:27:05
  look, you know, and again, my experience, whatever it is,
• 1:27:09
  right, say, say, hey, like in my experience, this is what I think
• 1:27:14
  is is possible. Now, if you still want me for
• 1:27:16
  the job, then yeah, we're going to do everything we can to meet
• 1:27:19
  your goals and expectations. I'm with you on this 100%.
• 1:27:21
  But but I don't want to take this like without having said, I
• 1:27:26
  think that this is what is realistically capable because I
• 1:27:29
  think there are so many times that we don't say that right, We
• 1:27:33
  because we, we shut. Up.
• 1:27:35
  I'm with you. We don't say the things to be.
• 1:27:36
  Like with you, this 100% agree with you.
• 1:27:39
  What I think happens though is even if that administrator says,
• 1:27:43
  you know what maybe you're right, we'll lower expectations,
• 1:27:45
  they ain't bro. You're going to get there and go
• 1:27:47
  wait a minute. You told me we agreed back down
• 1:27:50
  to I'm just using roster numbers down to 75, but now you're back
• 1:27:52
  to telling me 100. Well, just like the kind of
• 1:27:55
  excuses you heard, well, that's what we need.
• 1:27:58
  Well, that was our original goal.
• 1:28:00
  Well, that's what we're for, our administration.
• 1:28:03
  Or that's like, well, that's not what we agreed upon.
• 1:28:06
  That's wrong. That's lying, that's wrong.
• 1:28:08
  And it shouldn't be about the lowering of expectations.
• 1:28:10
  It should be about just being realistic, right?
• 1:28:12
  Like like I think realistically I'm saying because I'm.
• 1:28:14
  Using 175, that's why I say lower expectations.
• 1:28:17
  But you're right, it's a, it's a mindset change, frankly.
• 1:28:21
  But here's the thing, Mike, right?
• 1:28:22
  Realistically, maybe we're only going to be able to get 75 now,
• 1:28:25
  but once I get the 75 I should be able to get the 100.
• 1:28:28
  Yeah, that's not true. I I I think I should not every
• 1:28:31
  school. Not every school can get 100.
• 1:28:34
  No, not every school can I. I wish administrators would know
• 1:28:37
  that. But.
• 1:28:38
  Yeah, right. Well, that's that's true.
• 1:28:40
  That's true. Yeah, I'm sure every
• 1:28:42
  administrator listening goes, Oh yeah, no, we for sure can get
• 1:28:44
  100. It's.
• 1:28:45
  Like bro but. Your school's 1000.
• 1:28:47
  What do you mean you can get 100?
• 1:28:48
  That's the you know, the odds are impossible there.
• 1:28:51
  Well, and, and places like in the Midwest, right, or, or the
• 1:28:53
  Northeast where you get snow, right, Yeah.
• 1:28:55
  Where's your indoor? Facility.
• 1:28:56
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:28:59
  No, they never think and I, this is AI should never say the word.
• 1:29:02
  Never. A lot of them don't realize,
• 1:29:05
  don't care. That's actually the real term,
• 1:29:07
  not realize they're smart people.
• 1:29:09
  People in administration are smart people.
• 1:29:11
  I'm not taking that away from them.
• 1:29:12
  There is some time a lack of care of like, yeah, we want you
• 1:29:14
  to have 100I don't care how you get them or don't get them to
• 1:29:18
  meet. I don't care how you do or do
• 1:29:20
  not get them in a uniform. I do not care if you do or do
• 1:29:23
  not have the equipment to support them.
• 1:29:24
  I don't. I don't care if you have a full
• 1:29:27
  time coach of a skill level they don't like.
• 1:29:30
  You got 100. Cool.
• 1:29:32
  I get my funding from that. I get my tuition dollars paid
• 1:29:35
  from that. That's what they care about.
• 1:29:38
  And as long as you know that you can coach appropriately and as
• 1:29:42
  long as you know that you can make a decision of this is not
• 1:29:46
  that's not why I got into coaching.
• 1:29:47
  So I need to go find some other place.
• 1:29:49
  OK, Sean, first of all, healthy conversation.
• 1:29:51
  Thank you for having that with me.
• 1:29:52
  Yeah. So what do we go past Goshen?
• 1:29:56
  And let's be honest with you, in case anybody's listening from
• 1:29:58
  Goshen, let's be real here. We're not pointing fingers at
• 1:30:00
  Goshen. This is not a.
• 1:30:01
  Not at all an. Ocean issue, unfortunately
• 1:30:03
  there's a lot of schools this is an issue and then this whole
• 1:30:07
  philosophy of how we interview and how we so as the interviewer
• 1:30:12
  and as the interviewee, how we handle those situations need
• 1:30:14
  improving in our profession. My job, my role is to
• 1:30:17
  continually to help increase the professionalism of coaching
• 1:30:21
  track and field. And I think this is one of those
• 1:30:23
  parts I'm tired of talking about coaching that I love coaching
• 1:30:25
  that I don't see that there's a problem.
• 1:30:28
  There is a small problem with the coaching knowledge, but
• 1:30:31
  there's a much bigger problem with paying professionalism,
• 1:30:35
  hiring, evaluation, etcetera into a profession.
• 1:30:38
  Where do we go next, Sean? Cool.
• 1:30:40
  And, and I, I kind of want to piggyback on that too.
• 1:30:42
  Like I, I just want to say like I, I was very thankful for
• 1:30:46
  Goshen to have given us the opportunity, right?
• 1:30:48
  And I have a lot of love and respect for the people that work
• 1:30:51
  there, the staff that work there, the kids who are still
• 1:30:53
  there on the team. And I, I always want to see them
• 1:30:56
  succeed because no matter what program we're at, at some point,
• 1:31:00
  I tell this to all my kids, at some point everyone leaves.
• 1:31:02
  That's right. So like.
• 1:31:05
  You shouldn't harbor that ill will towards it, right?
• 1:31:08
  I'm open and honest about this because maybe this will help
• 1:31:11
  somebody else start to have those conversations to say maybe
• 1:31:14
  I should consider some of these things before I jump in, right?
• 1:31:17
  But if I'm not vulnerable about it and be honest with it, then
• 1:31:22
  somebody else might miss that step.
• 1:31:23
  Bingo. That is the one of the most
• 1:31:26
  important things you've said in this entire interview, boss.
• 1:31:28
  That's exactly right. Being vulnerable, being honest,
• 1:31:32
  and then making decisions based off of that.
• 1:31:34
  Not making decisions off of emotions or falsehoods.
• 1:31:37
  That that's where we get in trouble.
• 1:31:39
  That's where we're not aligned. So stepping away from that, that
• 1:31:44
  was hard because like, we'd uproot our family.
• 1:31:46
  We had moved, you know, to another state and I was kind of
• 1:31:51
  back in that like, man, I'm feeling defeated.
• 1:31:53
  Like like holy, like. And I don't think the me a few
• 1:31:58
  years prior would have been able to say, you know what?
• 1:32:02
  No, I'm not the guy for this. Like this isn't, you know, this
• 1:32:06
  isn't what we talked about. Like I'm I'm confident enough of
• 1:32:08
  my abilities to step away. No, so that was growth.
• 1:32:13
  Even though it was painful, it was growth.
• 1:32:15
  Most growth is painful. Right.
• 1:32:18
  But I was like, OK, I'm going to just, we'll find something.
• 1:32:21
  So I, I found a job working as a jobs for America's graduates
• 1:32:26
  instructor, right? So kind of like helping teach
• 1:32:28
  kids life skills stuff. But it was 45 minutes South of
• 1:32:32
  Goshen in this town called Warsaw.
• 1:32:33
  Oh man. Yeah.
• 1:32:35
  And you know, at the time they had a, a throws job open up at
• 1:32:39
  Grace College, which is right there in Warsaw.
• 1:32:41
  And I was like, you know what, Too soon.
• 1:32:43
  Like I'm not, I'm not going to jump back because it's in that
• 1:32:46
  same conference too. I'm not just doing that, but the
• 1:32:52
  principal I was working for because I was in an alternative
• 1:32:55
  school, right? So your kids who, you know,
• 1:32:57
  maybe had a rough go and trying to like, finish up strong,
• 1:33:00
  right? The principal, that school, he
• 1:33:02
  was a former throws coach. And so he and I hit it off well.
• 1:33:05
  Nice and. He's like, hey, the women's
• 1:33:07
  program needs throws coach. I was like women's program, like
• 1:33:12
  like because again, in the area we were at in Indiana, men's and
• 1:33:16
  women's teams were separate and they competed at separate sites
• 1:33:20
  and separate nights except for our conference championship.
• 1:33:24
  Right, because the state meet is like that too, yeah.
• 1:33:27
  But the only meet we did together was the conference
• 1:33:29
  championship. Right, right, right, right,
• 1:33:30
  right. Right.
• 1:33:31
  So like I was still getting used to that.
• 1:33:33
  Like I remember the first time I went to go recruited a high
• 1:33:34
  school meet when I got down to Goshen, I'm like, where's half
• 1:33:37
  the team? They're just like, they're not
• 1:33:39
  here. I was like, OK, definitely not
• 1:33:43
  in Kansas. Yeah, that's right.
• 1:33:44
  That's. Right.
• 1:33:45
  So I, I went and I, I was like, OK, yeah, sure.
• 1:33:49
  Like, I'll, I'll, I'll talk to whoever the head coach is and
• 1:33:52
  who was a former thrower for the high school herself.
• 1:33:55
  And she threw in college a little bit.
• 1:33:57
  And. And so I'm like, all right,
• 1:33:58
  cool. Like just this like, very
• 1:34:01
  universe. Sending you some help, Right.
• 1:34:05
  And so we sat down and we talked and she's like, yeah, you know
• 1:34:07
  what? Sounds good?
• 1:34:08
  Like what? We'll help you out.
• 1:34:11
  And Megan Davis, you know, so thankful for her being there in
• 1:34:16
  the program, but I also wasn't prepared for a high school that
• 1:34:20
  had a full indoor track set up with jumps areas and faults
• 1:34:23
  areas and throws areas. I'm just like, I guess we'll
• 1:34:29
  take it. I don't know, right?
• 1:34:32
  I just buried some of the colleges.
• 1:34:33
  I'd go, I was like, all right, we can do this.
• 1:34:38
  So came in and I was all right, like, like, here's here's what
• 1:34:42
  we got. And we had a small women's
• 1:34:43
  group, right? And, and our men's throws group
• 1:34:45
  at the time had some studs on them and they have a, a
• 1:34:48
  wonderful men's throws coach named Angela Miller.
• 1:34:50
  Just terrific person first class all the way.
• 1:34:55
  I I know I name drop a lot but like.
• 1:34:56
  Oh, it's good. Like like.
• 1:34:58
  None of these none of our paths to wherever we're getting get
• 1:35:01
  their solo 100%. So I don't feel like if I feel
• 1:35:04
  like if I don't give credit to people who are on the.
• 1:35:07
  Path that we almost we almost named the podcast the Gil shout
• 1:35:10
  out podcast because that's exact connections.
• 1:35:14
  Exactly right. The connections is not solo
• 1:35:17
  connections is more than one. So 100% people that have
• 1:35:21
  affected your life positively are absolutely deserve it of a
• 1:35:25
  shout out 100%. So we started working with that
• 1:35:29
  group and I remember one of the expectations was OK, with the
• 1:35:32
  kids we have, we think we might finish fourth in the shot in the
• 1:35:36
  conference meet outdoors. I'm like, OK, I, I think we
• 1:35:43
  could probably do a little bit better than that.
• 1:35:45
  And so we, we work through and, and it was a trust thing.
• 1:35:49
  They had a, a coach who I guess they're, they kind of rub some
• 1:35:52
  of them the wrong way. And so there was, there was
• 1:35:56
  trust to build there, right. And through the course of the
• 1:35:59
  season, we built enough where our kids were like, all right,
• 1:36:03
  yeah, like this is, this is the path we need to be on.
• 1:36:05
  OK. And we finished with, you know,
• 1:36:08
  going 1-2 in the conference in shot, 1/4 in the conference in
• 1:36:11
  disc, 1/4 in the sectional disc. I think like third in the
• 1:36:17
  sectional for shot. And then like, wow, gosh, 9th or
• 1:36:23
  10th maybe in, in shot at the regional meet and 3rd in the
• 1:36:28
  regional in disc. And our gal end up finishing
• 1:36:30
  14th overall in the state and and she was a sophomore, right?
• 1:36:34
  And so we're like, I think we, we out kicked our coverage on
• 1:36:38
  that one, right? And so it felt good to get back
• 1:36:43
  into a program where I could focus on the event area, right?
• 1:36:47
  And I mean, I have a lot of respect and I love doing the
• 1:36:50
  head coaching thing to have the vision.
• 1:36:51
  But like, man, it's just it's nice to be able to kind of
• 1:36:55
  narrow that focus. About that's what I mean.
• 1:36:56
  It's just, it really is sometimes that, you know, I know
• 1:36:59
  we always want growth and sometimes we get antsy and we
• 1:37:02
  want to be head coaches. And it's like, man, you got it
• 1:37:04
  pretty good as an assistant. But don't, don't lose sight of
• 1:37:07
  what's right there in front of you for you would have, you
• 1:37:10
  know, the old grass is greener and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:37:12
  But man, you got it pretty good sometimes as an assistant coach.
• 1:37:15
  You know, I, I think I think it would be helpful for every
• 1:37:18
  assistant to have to have been a head coach at some point just to
• 1:37:21
  help them get that view of that the world is bigger than their
• 1:37:24
  event. Yeah, I don't know that they
• 1:37:26
  need that. There's plenty of assistant
• 1:37:28
  coach, that lifelong assistant coaches that are amazing.
• 1:37:30
  I mean. No, I, I, I agree with that, but
• 1:37:33
  I'm just saying I, I, I think it, I think it's beneficial to
• 1:37:35
  have that because I at least in my experience, I've seen a lot
• 1:37:38
  of coaches who've just been that one event in their lane and it
• 1:37:42
  gets kind of dictator ish, if you will, right?
• 1:37:49
  And, and, and that can, that can be a detriment sometimes, right?
• 1:37:53
  But I I think having that experience, to see the bigger
• 1:37:55
  world. I think of someone who becomes a
• 1:37:58
  dictator, like you said, in your words, that's an event coach.
• 1:38:01
  I think they just become a head coach who's a dictator.
• 1:38:05
  That's fair, That's fair. I'm not sure.
• 1:38:08
  All right, Sean, we're near the end of our time.
• 1:38:10
  Give us kind of give us an update of where you are today,
• 1:38:12
  man, You're doing a lot more. I know we're talking about
• 1:38:14
  Warsaw and that's enough. That's a lot.
• 1:38:17
  But you're doing a little bit more than that, my friend.
• 1:38:20
  Yeah, so right now I'm still working with Warsaw Community
• 1:38:25
  High School. I am also a volunteer assistant
• 1:38:29
  for Concord University in West Virginia Division Two out there
• 1:38:33
  helping with Zoom calls and and video analysis and things of
• 1:38:38
  that nature. Is that challenging you to
• 1:38:41
  either coach differently or see coaching differently?
• 1:38:44
  I, I know of a few people who have coached people over video
• 1:38:49
  and that seems, I mean, it's hard to coach when the athletes
• 1:38:53
  right there in front of you, for crying out loud, you, you, you
• 1:38:56
  lose touch. Like you don't get to actually
• 1:38:59
  move their arm in the right place, things like that.
• 1:39:01
  You got to maybe be better verbal than you've ever been.
• 1:39:05
  Very much so. And I think I think you have to
• 1:39:07
  be more structured in how you approach things too.
• 1:39:11
  Just because, you know, when you're face to face with
• 1:39:14
  someone, it's so easy, like you said, just to be able to move
• 1:39:16
  people in the right position to help them understand, but you
• 1:39:19
  have to give them more visuals and better terminology to be
• 1:39:24
  able to understand the concept that you're trying to create.
• 1:39:26
  Like I can move somebody's arms up here in the catch for Hammer
• 1:39:29
  and be like, all right, now at this point, now you're feeling
• 1:39:31
  this right turn and you know, we'll go through all that,
• 1:39:35
  right? But on a video, I can say, all
• 1:39:38
  right, cool, I want that up higher.
• 1:39:39
  Nope, higher, higher. Now we're going to swing out
• 1:39:42
  like we're trying to throw a Bale of hay, right?
• 1:39:44
  Or you just trying to make those connections and relations based
• 1:39:48
  on what they have? Do kids still get that example?
• 1:39:51
  The bail of hay. Yeah, I do with weight.
• 1:39:56
  More so than I do with Hammer, yeah.
• 1:39:58
  But I do kids understand that. I mean, I'm trying to think of
• 1:40:01
  a. 20 year old. 16 year old kid now, yeah.
• 1:40:04
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I mean, another one we
• 1:40:10
  use is like if you ever tried to throw something up on top of a
• 1:40:12
  car, right? Or like like like a luggage rack
• 1:40:14
  or something like that. Or like, yeah, OK, something
• 1:40:16
  heavy that you're trying to get up to the top shelf you're.
• 1:40:18
  Trying to like, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:40:19
  I mean, there's different ways to say it, right?
• 1:40:21
  But going through video has certainly been challenging that.
• 1:40:26
  Yeah. But I've I've been.
• 1:40:27
  Like how did you get connected with Concord?
• 1:40:29
  So coaching education actually. Nice.
• 1:40:33
  So I had ever did my level 1 back in like 2014, 2015, I did
• 1:40:38
  my Level 2 through Zoom during COVID.
• 1:40:42
  I was one of the first Zoom classes for throws for COVID.
• 1:40:46
  And then during my time in Goshen, I did the emerging elite
• 1:40:50
  coaches school through USATF and out to Chula Vista.
• 1:40:53
  And when I was out there, one of the guys that was my roommate,
• 1:40:58
  his name is John Kegel. John Kegel is a fantastic
• 1:41:02
  distance guy. Like just love him to death.
• 1:41:04
  He's super passionate about his kids.
• 1:41:07
  But he was a he was down at Lynn University for a while in
• 1:41:10
  Florida. And he's a, he's a Florida guy
• 1:41:12
  through and through. But he had gotten the job at
• 1:41:15
  Concord last summer and he calls me up.
• 1:41:18
  He's like, hey, I need help with Rose.
• 1:41:21
  He's like, can you, can you do something?
• 1:41:23
  I'm like, yeah, you know what, Like let's let's help you out.
• 1:41:25
  And so walk through like what programming could look like, how
• 1:41:29
  it should like. And he's a strength conditioning
• 1:41:30
  guy too. So like he understands that
• 1:41:32
  piece. The technical piece is where
• 1:41:34
  we're, you know, learning and stuff, but we would do zoom
• 1:41:37
  calls with him and his group to talk about why pieces are
• 1:41:40
  important and why this is good. And that's good.
• 1:41:42
  You know, just again, that like education piece across all the
• 1:41:45
  barriers, right? So that's been super helpful.
• 1:41:49
  But on top of working with them, right, I have a post collegiate
• 1:41:54
  athlete I'm working with as well.
• 1:41:56
  Oh. Because you're not busy enough.
• 1:41:57
  Got it. OK, I.
• 1:41:58
  Know right, based out of Tennessee and she is she's 10
• 1:42:04
  years post collegiate, right, had some life things come up and
• 1:42:09
  really kind of, you know, waylaid some things, but I was
• 1:42:13
  like, you know what, like I kind of feel that right.
• 1:42:15
  I feel that like like you left something on the table, right,
• 1:42:19
  That's all I I remember being like, hey, you know, like if you
• 1:42:21
  ever need help, like, you know, throws communities always here,
• 1:42:23
  feel free to reach out. As we started connecting and
• 1:42:26
  working and we've been working since last August and she opened
• 1:42:30
  up this year. Throw in goodness was the she
• 1:42:35
  foot fouled one that was like 15 feet past her lifetime best in
• 1:42:38
  college. Wow.
• 1:42:39
  And had one that was like 2 feet under that was measured from her
• 1:42:43
  thing. But she's thrown much farther in
• 1:42:44
  practice. And so we're like, all right,
• 1:42:46
  like we're. It's a hammer thrower discus.
• 1:42:48
  Discus thrower, actually, yeah. And so we're making some, we're
• 1:42:52
  making some good strides there. But again, that's like, all
• 1:42:55
  right, here's the technical piece.
• 1:42:57
  Like, how do we break these down?
• 1:42:58
  And luckily enough, she's a student of the sport, right?
• 1:43:01
  So like a lot of, well, why does the RM need to be here versus
• 1:43:05
  there? Like, like, why should we be
• 1:43:07
  more over our left? Like, what do you think about
• 1:43:09
  this? And so that back and forth is
• 1:43:13
  huge on it, right? Because that's where.
• 1:43:15
  Do you think that's making you a better coach?
• 1:43:18
  You know, it's, it's interesting when our when we're, when we
• 1:43:22
  deal with young kid, like high school kids, sometimes when they
• 1:43:25
  ask a question and they're genuinely being curious, we as
• 1:43:29
  adults take that as challenging, like, you know, just shut up and
• 1:43:32
  run, Joey, you don't have to ask these questions.
• 1:43:34
  Now you're in a more adult to adult coaching relationship.
• 1:43:37
  So now you don't think she's asking you a question because
• 1:43:40
  she's trying to question your authority.
• 1:43:41
  You think she's actually being curious and wondering.
• 1:43:43
  And so you got to access a different part of your brain of
• 1:43:46
  like, Oh, I didn't think about that.
• 1:43:48
  Maybe this this that you know, Is that making you better coach
• 1:43:50
  challenging you in any aspects? You know, I, I don't necessarily
• 1:43:54
  think I've, I've thought of it too much as an athlete ever
• 1:43:57
  challenging authority when they're asking a question, like
• 1:44:01
  going back to my sister, right? Like having to think like people
• 1:44:03
  don't know what they don't know, right.
• 1:44:06
  And so if you're asking a question, I'm going to assume
• 1:44:08
  that you don't know and that's why you want to know.
• 1:44:11
  So I don't think I've had to see it from that way too much on the
• 1:44:15
  rare times it has instead of trying to go down the authority
• 1:44:19
  piece, I've been like, all right, well, if you're, if this
• 1:44:21
  is what you think, give your reasonings, right, defend your
• 1:44:24
  argument, right? And if if you have a strong
• 1:44:28
  enough argument, I'll give you some rope to run with it, right
• 1:44:30
  and say, all right, let's try it because there has to be that
• 1:44:33
  that give and take, right? I mean, to make this work, it
• 1:44:36
  can't be a dictation. It has to be a conversation.
• 1:44:40
  And so like, one thing we talked about with our athletes, no
• 1:44:43
  matter where they're at, is having our three VS for success,
• 1:44:46
  right? And so their vision, value and
• 1:44:48
  vulnerability. And if you think about like AV,
• 1:44:51
  right, you have to at first have the vision to see where you're
• 1:44:54
  going and what your goals are, where you're headed.
• 1:44:56
  Then you have to provide value, who you are as a person, not
• 1:45:00
  just as an athlete or a number. And like and put things in
• 1:45:02
  bigger perspective, then you get down to the bottom, which is
• 1:45:05
  what we call the valley of success.
• 1:45:07
  Like this is the vulnerability piece, right?
• 1:45:09
  When you can share the things that you're struggling with, you
• 1:45:11
  can share the things that are difficult and you're having a
• 1:45:13
  hard time with. When you share those with other
• 1:45:15
  people, you start to show each other value.
• 1:45:17
  When you show each other value, you start to see the
• 1:45:19
  possibilities and the vision for what they can do, right.
• 1:45:22
  And so I, I'm reminded of this guy that what was it?
• 1:45:25
  The first guy to climb Everest, They got there and they asked
• 1:45:28
  him like, what are you thinking? He's like, well, I'm thinking
• 1:45:30
  about how I'm going to climb that one, right?
• 1:45:33
  It's like, I mean, that's perspective, right?
• 1:45:35
  Instead of thinking, man, there's this great thing, it's
• 1:45:37
  like I'm mapping out how I want to get to there.
• 1:45:39
  And so it's, it's the same kind of path, right?
• 1:45:42
  And so those sort of things have really driven a lot of what we
• 1:45:46
  do. Like if I'm recruiting a kid and
• 1:45:51
  they, the place doesn't feel like home, I'm going to be the
• 1:45:53
  first one to tell them, don't come there.
• 1:45:56
  Be like, look, if this doesn't feel like home to you, I get it.
• 1:45:58
  I understand. I don't, I don't want you to
• 1:46:00
  feel a place that doesn't feel like home.
• 1:46:01
  I don't want you to feel not supported if you don't feel like
• 1:46:05
  I'm understanding you, like I'm willing to sit down and
• 1:46:07
  understand however you want to say it and we'll talk it out
• 1:46:10
  until we figure it out, right? But I'm also going to be honest
• 1:46:13
  with you about what I think is capable and possible.
• 1:46:16
  And I think that's where like we could talk about that budget
• 1:46:18
  piece earlier, right? Like that vision piece, right?
• 1:46:20
  Like like vision wise, I can see like this is where we are.
• 1:46:23
  We can certainly be here, right? But like this is where we are.
• 1:46:28
  But those three things I think have driven a lot of what we do.
• 1:46:30
  And so between balancing all those, a 10 year old who has an
• 1:46:35
  active social life because he's doing flag football and he's
• 1:46:39
  doing elementary school track and he's doing, you know, chess
• 1:46:43
  club and archery and Lego robotics.
• 1:46:45
  And, and my wife who just recently had a heart attack and
• 1:46:51
  we're trying to like go through that recovery.
• 1:46:55
  Who I I would be remiss if I said that there is a way I could
• 1:47:01
  have done any of this without her.
• 1:47:03
  I mean, if you want to talk about a why, right?
• 1:47:06
  Like my wife, my son. That's it, man.
• 1:47:10
  I mean, that's. Awesome.
• 1:47:11
  You we can do do the best we can for them, right, But I just like
• 1:47:17
  we talked about the connections and not doing the solo.
• 1:47:19
  I could not do this without like she is.
• 1:47:22
  She's incredible. I love that.
• 1:47:26
  Yeah, that's funny when you mentioned your 10 year old, all
• 1:47:29
  the activities, that's the one thing, you know, when you when
• 1:47:32
  you start having children, maybe you had this experience on
• 1:47:34
  everybody else who's a parent has all this advice for you.
• 1:47:36
  And most of it's, you know, hyperbole and all this kind of
• 1:47:38
  stuff. The one thing that people told
• 1:47:40
  me that they didn't make a big enough deal about it was you're
• 1:47:43
  just a basically a taxi driver as they get to a certain age.
• 1:47:45
  You're at 10:00, I've got 15 and 12.
• 1:47:49
  It just continues, man. They find everything and you
• 1:47:52
  want, you know, you're very supportive parents.
• 1:47:53
  So you want like, oh, you want to try that?
• 1:47:55
  Sure, let's go try that. And just, Oh my gosh, it's
• 1:47:58
  amazing. So if you don't have a partner
• 1:48:01
  to to play along with that, it it it's impossible.
• 1:48:04
  It's not even making the top, it's just impossible.
• 1:48:06
  So I'm so happy to see that and I know you guys are going
• 1:48:10
  through it now, some health stuff and you know where she's
• 1:48:14
  been there for you and now it's your turn to be there for her,
• 1:48:17
  so. Remember that.
• 1:48:19
  She's I know if we had her on the show right now, she'd be
• 1:48:21
  saying the same things. Like, man, I couldn't do it
• 1:48:22
  without Sean. And that's probably hard to see
• 1:48:24
  sometimes when you're younger. Like, man, someone's going to
• 1:48:27
  really depend on me. And guess what?
• 1:48:29
  I'm going to really want to do that with them, do life with
• 1:48:32
  them. And I think it's so awesome you
• 1:48:34
  guys have found each other and they're doing that.
• 1:48:36
  Yeah, well, you know, I think that the life of like helping
• 1:48:40
  raise my sister, right? The the, the, the long time of
• 1:48:44
  working in special education, right?
• 1:48:46
  Like, like coaching, taking care of people, helping people.
• 1:48:52
  This, this to me doesn't seem like, I mean it, trust me, it's
• 1:48:56
  a scary thing, right? But like helping her get through
• 1:48:59
  these things, It it's another process.
• 1:49:01
  And, well, it's kind of like a, you know, when Judd Logan, I
• 1:49:07
  remember there's a story like how he he heard about his his
• 1:49:10
  diagnosis, like when he was going through his stuff and he's
• 1:49:12
  like, all right, cool. What's the plan?
• 1:49:16
  I mean, if, if you have that mentality, right, to be able to
• 1:49:18
  say, cool, all right, this thing is happening either to me or for
• 1:49:23
  me, depending on how you want to do it, right.
• 1:49:26
  How do we attack it? Yeah.
• 1:49:28
  I love that you mentioned Judd Logan blessed to have had Judd
• 1:49:33
  early in the Gill podcast. So highly encourage you to go
• 1:49:37
  back to listen that one. Sean, my friend, you know, one
• 1:49:39
  of the most valuable things that you can give me is your time,
• 1:49:41
  man, and I'm just so grateful that you would spend that time
• 1:49:45
  with us, man. Your journey.
• 1:49:46
  It's, you know, I've said this before, but every time I hear a
• 1:49:51
  story like yours, it like re reminds me of this.
• 1:49:57
  I thought when we started this and you know, from day one, when
• 1:50:01
  we had Zeb Hoffman from Evergreen State, he was guest #1
• 1:50:05
  throws coach and you know, he told us his journey, it was very
• 1:50:09
  unique. He was a 30 year old NAIA
• 1:50:12
  national champ in the hammer. That's honestly was like, man,
• 1:50:14
  this guy's got to be my first guest.
• 1:50:15
  How in the world are you a 30 year old college national
• 1:50:18
  champion? That's crazy.
• 1:50:19
  But I thought, OK, after we do some number, whether that number
• 1:50:23
  was 10 or 50 or God bless for sure by 100, I will have heard,
• 1:50:28
  we will have shared every potential way to become a coach.
• 1:50:34
  Like there's only so many avenues and sitting here now at
• 1:50:38
  360 plus here in your shot, this is unique.
• 1:50:40
  No one's ever had this journey that we've had here, Man, I love
• 1:50:44
  that. I love that our profession,
• 1:50:47
  which if you're going to be successful, and when I say
• 1:50:51
  successful, I don't mean coaching state champs and all
• 1:50:53
  Americans and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:50:55
  I'm talking about longevity and positive impact on young people.
• 1:51:00
  You've got to come with a servant's heart, a servant
• 1:51:03
  leadership heart, my friend. And that is been the theme
• 1:51:06
  throughout your entire journey from your family, your sister to
• 1:51:11
  your children, your children, your child and your wife.
• 1:51:14
  The kids go everything has been from a servant leadership heart.
• 1:51:20
  And I think that is the major contribution that you've made so
• 1:51:24
  far to this society. Here's the thing.
• 1:51:27
  You're not old, by the way. You're young in this, which is
• 1:51:30
  cool because that means there's, you know, decade, 2 decades, 3
• 1:51:33
  decades left to serve others, which I think grows your heart,
• 1:51:37
  my friend. And I'm just so blessed that you
• 1:51:40
  would share that journey with us today.
• 1:51:43
  Well, thank you, Sir. I appreciate that.
• 1:51:44
  I you know, metals and rings collect dust, but the impact you
• 1:51:48
  can leave on people is is what really matters.
• 1:51:51
  Dude, is there a better way to end this episode?
• 1:51:53
  That's exactly right. I love that.
• 1:51:56
  Sean, thank you so much, man. I do appreciate you.
• 1:51:58
  Grateful that you're here today, guys and gals.
• 1:52:00
  Thank you so much for being here today.
• 1:52:02
  Dropped a lot of I love, I'm not kidding.
• 1:52:04
  It was close to being the Gill shout out podcast because again,
• 1:52:08
  we stand on the shoulders of others, right?
• 1:52:11
  And so I love giving that credence and that recognition to
• 1:52:16
  the guys and gals that showed us the way and they do it in
• 1:52:20
  different ways, which I love that.
• 1:52:22
  And so I love that aspect. And we mentioned a lot of people
• 1:52:24
  who have had have been on the guest have been on the podcast
• 1:52:28
  before. So again, highly recommend you
• 1:52:29
  just take a look at the library, go back.
• 1:52:31
  Like I said, Judd Logan was here, man, God bless him.
• 1:52:34
  I think he was, you know, episode 40 or something like
• 1:52:37
  that. We've had we talked about George
• 1:52:39
  Williams. That's a another amazing story,
• 1:52:42
  basketball guy that becomes a legendary Hall of Fame track and
• 1:52:45
  field coach, Brooks Johnson, which I still believe should be
• 1:52:49
  required listening every year before you coach.
• 1:52:51
  Brooks had a unique way of seeing coaching and I think it's
• 1:52:57
  important for all events to to see that.
• 1:53:01
  You know, the one thing I remember Brooks saying it was on
• 1:53:03
  one of those like the pack a call out to what the OR coaches
• 1:53:08
  connection things like during COVID was these are not our
• 1:53:12
  athletes. These the athletes, we have the
• 1:53:14
  opportunities. To.
• 1:53:16
  Right. They're never ours, you know, We
• 1:53:18
  just get the opportunity to work.
• 1:53:19
  With them. That's exactly.
• 1:53:21
  That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
• 1:53:23
  I love that. All right, guys and gals, thank
• 1:53:25
  you so much for being here this week.
• 1:53:27
  That's a great way to end it, man.
• 1:53:28
  I had a blast today and I hope you did too.
• 1:53:30
  Join us next week and of course, Tuesday through Sunday we have
• 1:53:33
  our Guild 1918 projects. You did a Guild 19 on the three
• 1:53:37
  VS right That that was yeah. I'll just say that was not
• 1:53:39
  unfamiliar to me. So if you found that interesting
• 1:53:42
  when he was talking about the value vision and.
• 1:53:44
  Vision, value and vulnerability. Vision, value and vulnerability,
• 1:53:47
  look in the library on your podcast app.
• 1:53:49
  He did a Gill 1918 project on that.
• 1:53:51
  Thank you for doing that. By the way, those are 10 to 30
• 1:53:54
  minute episodes, so a little smaller than what we do here on
• 1:53:57
  Mondays, but highly valuable. The Ted talks of track and field
• 1:54:00
  podcast, great information for you and a coach.
• 1:54:03
  And no matter what level you coach at, go check out Sean's
• 1:54:06
  Gill 1918 project and find some others for you.
• 1:54:08
  OK, Join us next week. We'll do it all over again.
• 1:54:10
  Thanks guys. If it goes to appreciate the
• 1:54:16
  coach, the ones that pour people most every season needs a voice
• 1:54:20
  of reason speaking the growth you got to prep before you carry
• 1:54:22
  the load. Ice coffee to the soul.
• 1:54:24
  For those of us who stay on the go proper handoff to stay in the
• 1:54:27
  zone which you packing for the road.
• 1:54:29
  There's more than one way to go taking those that's paying your
• 1:54:32
  toe. It ain't practice if your
• 1:54:34
  purpose ain't clear. It can't happen until you
• 1:54:36
  listen. With both is can't mentor
• 1:54:38
  without a mentor of experience. You can reinvent those years
• 1:54:42
  every plan's got to stand and deliver to and the price
• 1:54:45
  sacrifice can you give up you. It's a choice and a fight not a
• 1:54:48
  win or lose. It's not a ploy boy device.
• 1:54:50
  Y'all can make more moves. It's not about how to it's all
• 1:54:53
  about why. You don't know till you know who
• 1:54:55
  you are inside 6,000,000 waste of time choose none.
• 1:54:59
  So y'all cross finish line. The work ain't done so we learn
• 1:55:02
  from the experts but y'all got to put in the network.
• 1:55:05
  Your athletics is the network. It's all about connections put
• 1:55:08
  together for the profession to every track.