Latest / In the Valley of Giants / The Angel in the Outfield | Ari Kafka | ITVOG Ep. 25

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The Angel in the Outfield | Ari Kafka | ITVOG Ep. 25 · In the Valley of Giants

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And he he told us into the room and told the, you know, that
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there was the three of us and say, look, I'm about to do
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something crazy right now. You might understand it, but
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just have patience and. What makes someone a director
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you know, in a in a, in a major therapy institution?
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No, in the moment I was in the moment I was, it was, it was, it
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was awesome. It was a great like in in my
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town, it was a small town. I think it was the first person
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to to get drafted from any, any sport.
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So it was, it was there definitely a great feeling.
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It was cool. But did I say?
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Something not correct. Hello everyone.
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Today we speak to Ari Kafka. Before his work in therapy and
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communal leadership, Ari Kafka lived a very different life
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playing professional baseball, competing at the highest level,
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where discipline, resilience and mental toughness are forged
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under pressure. But his journey didn't end on
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the field and a powerful turn of purpose.
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He embarked on a path of Chuva, dedicating his life to growth,
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service, and helping others rebuild their own lives.
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From working as a therapist inside the prison system,
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confronting the harsh realities of human failure and redemption,
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and having served as a director at a Mudem supporting
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individuals and families through crisis and recovery, Kafka's
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life has been defined by tremendous transformation.
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Enjoy. All right.
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Thank you so much for coming in today.
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My pleasure. Pleasure to meet you.
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Good to meet. You, I have a lot of questions,
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OK. But I'm going to start with
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Amuddem for a second, OK? And then we're going to take a
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little break and you know exactly where we're going.
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And then we're going to come back to some of the work that
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you're doing now. But when?
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How long were you going to move them for?
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I was there for six years. OK.
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And what was your official role there?
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I started off as a case manager when I first when Donnie
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Silverstein was the director, and after about maybe a year or
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two, I took over as a clinical director.
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OK. And as a director, did you still
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manage patients or were you more managing?
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Yeah. Both clients and then also the
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other case managers and networking.
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OK, in terms of it's figure from anchor ignorance in terms of the
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scope of Amekam, but we're you're dealing with people under
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stress all the way up to suicide and abuse.
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Everything. Everything from anxiety just
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looking for a therapist to the whole family is involved in
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abuse and cults. Wow, cults.
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Culture. OK, we have cults here.
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Internationally, like because it wasn't just as as all over
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Europe. Oh, I didn't know that in
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America. And move them deals.
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Australia. Are there moving sensors and not
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just in Israel? Just in America and then Israel.
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So Israel and between Israel and America, they took over.
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They handled the cases coming from outside those areas.
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OK, All right, so we're going to get back to this, but I just
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wanted to get a little bit of a picture of your professional
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office for a moment. And now everyone's going to ask
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you about your sports background.
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OK, Now listen, I'm I'm not a really interesting person.
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I don't really know anything about sports.
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The one like sports thing that I know is about myself.
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So shows how horrible sports person I am.
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When I was younger, I had an uncle and he really, really
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wanted me to play sports. OK, so he signed me up for ice
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hockey. OK.
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So not just like that's an. Interesting sport to sign up
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for. You.
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Yeah, so years ago when I turned 30, so my wonderful Robertson
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put together a little video of everyone wishing me happy
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birthday. And so that the happy birthday I
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got from my uncle was some looking dead face, you know,
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into the, you know, camera pin. I remember when, you know, when
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Tom was a kid and we signed him up for ice hockey and, you know,
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I just sat next to the penalty box and he was going to check
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everyone. That's as far as it goes.
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So tell me about your background and your journey.
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It was sports. Sports was growing up.
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I grew up in a secular home, conservative and sports was my
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life. Just I was I, I was OK in school
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and I I managed. But as I thrived in sports
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field, just as my safe haven. Playing or or and just watching
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but. Mostly playing I I watched but
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not wasn't such a big I wasn't such a big fan like I wasn't a
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die hard fan and always watching and following and had favorite
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players and just had to follow them.
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It was more out in the field. Soccer I mean soccer wasn't such
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a big thing, but football, basketball, baseball, anything
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OK through high school I played I played all through football,
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basketball and baseball. Basketball was probably my best
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sport and as far as in the school I was in also just the
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public school basketball is probably our best sport.
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My junior we made the to the state semi finals, which is, you
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know, a big deal. We had a McDonald's all American
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nominee on our team. Pretty pretty legit.
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But baseball I saw as my my ticket to playing after high
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school. I wasn't, I wasn't scouted by
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any major colleges or anything like.
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That is that like your destiny, like when you were a kid, Like I
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love sports so much and I don't want to make it.
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Really. OK, but so I remember playing in
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my in my yard and throwing, throwing a tennis ball up on the
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roof and catching flyball your garage.
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I thought, yeah, I put a put a target, a tape target on the on
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the garage and imagining pitching in the World Series and
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striking out the striking out the side.
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Did your parents discourage you? No, I don't.
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No, no, no. They, they.
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They. They.
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Was that the right thing? To invest in me.
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I mean, there there was. That was the normal thing to do.
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No, I'll tell you why I feel like I think I think this is
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wrong actually, but I feel parents discourage kids from
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their. Dreams, oh, dreaming, dreaming,
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dreaming that. Ah, yeah, no, I mean, they
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didn't, they didn't discourage. No, I mean they, they didn't
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necessarily say, yeah, you can do it.
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You're going to be, you're going to be a Major League All Star.
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Like they didn't necessarily build it up like that, but they,
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they invested in me. So they, they were driving me
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all over the place to playing and coaches and leagues and just
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they're all, they're, they're behind me, biggest, biggest fans
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all, every game. They're they're, they're
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amazing. Would you encourage parents to
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to really invest in their kids dreams?
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I'm not saying that monetarily if you know your kid is going to
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be rough so you have to get him a billion dollar lessons.
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But like, I don't know, personally, I feel that if if a
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kid feels that he can do something and you should be
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encouraged to try and you know, have some beliefs, would you
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would? You I agree with that.
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And I think there's there always needs to be a balance where
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there has there has to be some sort of some level of
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attainability within within the goal.
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So you can have a big vision, but then like, like, you know,
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how, what's the road map to get there?
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And is it achievable, attainable?
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And I think that's and that that balance is is key.
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Continue. So, so I, I, my my uncle, one of
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my uncles was a was a sports, a lawyer slash sports agent.
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So he had not number of Boston area grew up in Chant,
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Massachusetts. So he was a Boston area big NBA
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athletes, Celtics, Red Sox, Patriots.
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So I worked out, I worked with Dick Raddatz.
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I was known as the monster. He's a closer in the 60s and 70s
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for the Red Sox. OK.
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And Jim Lomborg, who is known as the gentleman, gentleman Jim, he
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he won a couple of Siam Siam awards with the Red Sox.
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And so I worked out with them after high school in between
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like that summer between high school and college.
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And I walked on to my college team, Quinnipiac University,
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which is Division One, small Division One school in hand that
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I did. I was one of two walk ONS that
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year. The year before I got to there.
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5 and 35. Five and that sounds pretty bad
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they're. Horrible, horrible.
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And if you and if you know anything about baseball, my
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first two years and at Quinn PIAC, I had a 16 year and a 14
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year. I, I was a pitcher.
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So it's earned run, earned run, run average based on 9 innings.
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So basically you're if you're giving up 16 or 14 runs per nine
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innings, it's pretty, it's really bad the, the, it's so.
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Why do you keep pushing? So good question.
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I definitely thought about quitting.
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There was 1 moment I we were playing Connecticut, UConn at
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home my sophomore year. I came into close, we were
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winning the game and I totally blew it.
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Walking and walking, guys getting hit all the place.
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I remember after the game in the locker room, I was, I was done.
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I was crying. I was I was ready to give up.
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And there are a few people in my corners.
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I'm, a couple of my buddies on the team picked me up.
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My parents were there. They picked me up after the
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game. My brother, it was a big
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influence in my life, picked me up and I was able to speak to
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Jim Lomborg after the game also. So he picked me up.
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So I had a lot of support, which I think is very obviously very
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important. And that just, it kind of kept
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me going and there was a, there's a lot, there's a lot of
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overlap here with what I'm doing now and, and then, and it's
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mostly like a lot of what I'm interested now is based on what
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I've struggled with then really. So physically, I was, I was
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physically fit and I did all the work.
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I did all the workouts, extra workouts.
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And I think what I was lacking was up here and.
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Scale of dedication, No St. play.
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Wasn't there? It was more.
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It was more than the mindset and the performance, the men's
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performance side of things, which most people, I don't know
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if you ask them what's what's more important and or what's the
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percentages of physical versus mental and in the in sports and
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have people give you all these percentages.
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But it's definitely a high percentage of the game, which I
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think it's a make or break it between some of the big the big
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athletes that are out there that are that are that are super
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you're. Talking about anxiety.
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That's part of it, anxiety. What's your focus?
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Where where you're where's your you know what what's what's your
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routines like I. I like, I don't know what you
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mean, but I'd imagine that what whatever that is, is that I
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don't think that has to be necessarily sports specific.
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No, definitely, definitely other situations.
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And now, now nowadays you look out and out there, there's so
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many coaches out there, performance coaches, mental
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performance coaches, mental skills coaches.
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And, and they're from the sports fields to the the executive
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board rooms, the CEOs and entrepreneurs, everyone out
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there is having has a coach to help them perform better.
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Did you feel this on? Did you come to these
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conclusions on your own? Not.
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Until later, yeah, much later. Like after, you know, 20 years
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later, I, I first met a performer.
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It was a sports psychologist. After I got drafted, we didn't
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even get there in the story, but after, after a sports
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psychologist. You know, here's what I'm going
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to do. I'm going to shut up for a bit.
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It's all good. So it's like that, that kind of
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that even though I didn't necessarily turn the switch with
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my my mental performance, I doubled down on the physical
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side of things. So I still struggled before
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games. I was super nervous.
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I was always in my mind thinking about the outcomes and the
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positive outcomes that were going to happen, which, which,
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which some say that that's a positive thing.
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It's a good thing, but it definitely took my mind off of
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what I do in the moment. So it affected my performance
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daily on a daily in a daily basis.
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And especially in games when it came in game time, there's a lot
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of pressure. So my confidence was very low,
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but I, I pushed it and I did basically my, my skills and you
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know, got me through it and my, my physical, one of my physical
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appearance, my physical like attributes pushed me through.
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So I got, by the time I was a senior, we were the best, one of
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the best teams in the conference.
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We won our, my senior, we won the conference regular season
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championship and the conference tournament championship.
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We got a bid to the NCAA Tournament and we drew the
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number one team in the country of Texas.
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So we played at Texas, which was an awesome experience just to
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8009 thousand fans and burnt orange screaming at you and
12:28
singing the, the, whatever it was, it was, it was an unreal,
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unreal experience. We got crushed.
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But it, it's fine. It was, it was, it was just, it
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was a good thing. And starting, starting my junior
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year, I started getting attention from Major League
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scouts from different teams. They would come to games, I
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would do them afterwards, they'd come to the summer league games.
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And this my senior year I had there was a bunch of
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possibilities that could have went down and ended up getting
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drafted by the Seattle Mariners. And the 26th round, about
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halfway through the the draft, I signed on women.
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I went to to Arizona. I played for the rest of that
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summer. I played for a couple more years
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and then this is where it gets kind of this is where the the
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path forks. Forks, yeah.
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Since you're signed up again for good magnets, but you signed on
13:25
to the Marine, so are you. Are you now officially playing
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professional baseball? Personal baseball, minor League
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Baseball. Yeah, so minor League Baseball
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for mostly single A, there's so each, each, so each team, each
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Major League organization has let's say 5 minor league teams.
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So there's a rookie ball, there's low a high a AA, AAA,
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OK. And then there's even there's
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Dominic, the Dominican League and Dominican Republic.
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They have guys that they have a league there.
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There's a, there's a, there's a lot of players in the, in the,
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in the minor leagues. Now it's, it's cut down a lot
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since COVID and COVID cut down the draft a little bit.
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And then so this is a little different.
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So maybe a little different from back when I was playing.
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But so you, you progress each year, you kind of move up.
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Some guys move up faster, some guys move up a little slower.
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I guess projection is, you know, 5-5 years if you're going each
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level every year. Some guys, one, there are a
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couple of guys that have done it all.
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One year they got drafted in the summertime and they're playing
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in the big leagues come September, October.
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But that's like the minor dream. You're when you're in the in the
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minor leagues, like you're, you're like the pipeline
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hopefully to get to the major. That's the idea, yeah.
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So you're you're technically you're, you're all teammates.
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You're on the same team. You're all competing to get up
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at this at the same time. So you're competing, it's
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competing to get up there. So you're.
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What are your contracts like environments?
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Nothing. So some people you get a, you
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get a, a signing bonus. So the higher you're drafted
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and, and if you're, the younger you are.
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So if you, if you get drafted a high school or as a junior, you
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get your signing bonus a little higher.
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As a senior, you're signing boss and, and later on in the
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drafters, it's very minimal. They, they, they cover a lot of
15:06
costs, living costs, flights and travel expenses and things like
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that, some new food. And so you're not necessarily
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spending so much during the year, but a lot of guys would
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have to get jobs in the offseason just to keep, keep
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things going. How old are you at the time,
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2122? Did you make it like and when
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you got signed on debris? Was on some level some of those
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it was that when I got the phone call so you.
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Weren't satisfied. No, in the moment I was in the
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moment I was, it was, it was, it was awesome.
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It was great. Like in my town, it was a small
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town. I think it was the first person
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to to get drafted from any, any sport.
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So it was it was there was there definitely a great feeling.
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It was cool, but that wasn't the end.
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You wanted to make it to the big leagues.
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That was that's that's the ultimate goal, OK.
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So what happened after? So, so Side Story necessary, but
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back in that little background, my brother when I was a junior
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senior in high school was engaged to a non Jew and she was
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going through a whole conversion process.
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And here's his own story. Basically he ultimately he he
16:19
broke off the engagement and started learning and then end up
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coming up to terrace real to Yeshiva.
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Did she ever? Convert.
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I don't think so, no. And he was, So he was again.
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He was a big influence in my life, him and my, and my, my
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cousin, the three of us, we kind of made a pact when my brother's
16:42
about to tell my whole family what was going down and he, he
16:45
pulled us into the room and told the, you know, that there was a
16:47
three of us and said, look, I'm about to do something crazy
16:49
right now. You might understand it, but
16:52
just have patience and we'll have a lot of discussions about
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this and. What about that?
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They want to get married. No, no about about tips leaving.
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Yeah, about taking a whole new journey in his life.
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Quite pivot. Yeah, big, big pivot.
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So now he was here for two years and got married.
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So I was about the end of my my freshman year at college.
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I came for his wedding was the first time this year, the first
17:19
time I was introduced to anything in the Orthodox Jewish
17:22
world. I mean, the town I grew up in is
17:24
about 60% Jewish. And there's I went to public
17:30
school, but there's a lot of guys went to my my mall.
17:32
So there's a there's an OU sure, there is a OK.
17:39
So there is a more modern modern Orthodox, there is a Chabad and
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then there is a Conservative reform.
17:53
There's other denominations that don't even know what they're
17:56
called. Now there's this, there's a lot
17:58
of Jews there. So it wasn't I, I saw it, but it
18:01
was never, I never actually experienced and got into it
18:04
until that until the wedding here and there's this room.
18:07
It was, it was a big shock. Yeah, it was.
18:09
And you liked it right off the bat.
18:09
You're like, wow, this is there's.
18:10
Something, something to it. I suddenly saw something to it.
18:13
There's a beauty to it just out, you know, on the outside surface
18:15
level. And then I would come visit my
18:18
brother, everyone, you know, winter break offseason.
18:22
And every time I would come, we'd, we'd sit, we'd learn.
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He was learning at the time. Why'd?
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You visit him every. Winter break and and also like
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when I came here that first time I was there was a connection.
18:34
I felt this I felt something here.
18:35
They serve as little but. I thought most people don't just
18:38
like, visit their brothers no matter where they are.
18:40
Everyone's a break. We recalls close family, very
18:42
close, very close family. Yeah.
18:46
And so he, he was living in by the gun at the time.
18:50
He was learning the terraces. And so I would go visit him and
18:55
we learned in the Shiva. I'd speak to her Vulcan.
18:58
So it was I didn't, I didn't appreciate who revoking was at
19:02
the time, but and and and there was roughly I didn't appreciate
19:05
who they were, but. Some baseball players walking
19:06
down being high rabbit. Bowl Yeah, exactly.
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But he, he, he, he, he was, he was a very special person.
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So he, he understood how and just my, my brother was just, he
19:16
was, he never pushed anything on me.
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I never told me to do anything or, or ask her or force anything
19:22
on me. There's always a lot of love and
19:26
just patience and just guided me.
19:28
If I had questions, he'd sit and answer.
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So that was that's the kind of the background how I got
19:34
introduced. I was starting college, so I
19:36
know there was a picture that I took my senior in my my uniform.
19:40
I had I had set this hang out and I was in a stunt.
19:43
This is in college to start it starting in when I after I
19:47
drafted, my brother gave me a pair to filling start pair to
19:51
filling. I would go and Habad's all the
19:54
place. I would sometimes just check in
19:56
with kebab wherever I was and and wasn't like I was, I was in
20:00
this like keeping anything. But yeah, it's just every now
20:02
and then I try to learn about like and my brother would give
20:05
me something to look over and read.
20:10
And so that's that's the the kind of the the parallel
20:17
journey. Trouble is blue.
20:18
Yes, trouble is definitely brewing here, so.
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My in, in 2007, I was, it was, it was in, I was in spring
20:28
training. I was doing very well.
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Hadn't let up a run all spring training.
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It was like the last week or so and I came into the clubhouse
20:38
and there was a, a note on my locker telling me to go see
20:42
Pedro. Pedro was the head of player
20:44
development. So I go into the office and
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Pedro's there and there's a bunch of pitching coasters there
20:51
throughout the whole system and guys that I've connected,
20:54
coaches that I connected with, and they sat me down telling me
20:57
that I was, that they were releasing me.
21:00
They're releasing you, releasing me.
21:01
Why? Yeah.
21:04
So it's it's a business at the end of the day and there's
21:07
there's investments, there's they invest more in people and
21:10
just it happens part of the game.
21:13
There's there's numbers they have to only a certain amount of
21:15
numbers they can have. And that's just that's just the
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nature of it did. You see that coming?
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No, not really. No, not at all.
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How crushing is that? Oh yeah, I didn't.
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I don't think, I I don't think I slowly recovered from that even.
21:31
Well, no, no, like too much later.
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I mean, at that, it took me a very, very long time to get over
21:35
that. I ended up signing with an
21:37
independent team and there's sort of independent baseball.
21:41
They have leagues all over the United States that are not
21:45
affiliated with any Major League organization, but they're it's
21:47
same level as base my League Baseball.
21:49
OK, so I signed on with a team just to finish off the summer
21:53
with the hope of son getting high and getting on with
21:57
another. Does that happen?
21:58
Yeah. Have the whole time signing with
22:01
other Major League team in the offseason or during the season.
22:04
Happens during the season also that they they they buy players
22:07
out. So I signed on a team, but again
22:10
I didn't I didn't recover yet. So I was I was hurting already.
22:14
I was fragile mentally because just with I'm now I say I'm
22:19
recovering perfectionist. So it was just I was on my head
22:24
and that was where my that was my downfall.
22:26
And then this just made it even worse because now I was my
22:30
dreams. So it was it was a struggle
22:32
that's on there. I performed OK, but not not
22:36
great. And then I had another friend of
22:39
mine from Sharon who also went to Toshiba right before my
22:42
brother, who told me about this retreat in Warrensburg, NY
22:49
called Sinai Retreats, formerly known as Moodus Moodus
22:52
Connecticut, Rabbi Gershenfeld, My brother, my brother went to
22:56
Mahan Shamu, say to this friend that's from the Mahan Shamu.
22:59
So it was the end of the last. It's a two week.
23:03
There's a few different two week programs throughout the summer.
23:06
It was the last program and it was the last week.
23:09
I missed the first week. We told, hey, you know, it's
23:11
it's the season was basically over and go, go check it out.
23:17
Why'd you say yeah, So, yeah. So probably because I was in a
23:20
place where I was I was searching because I again, I was
23:23
I was growing on my own. I would I would go when I was
23:26
home. I would go to Robin.
23:28
Robin Miller and Miller was a rabbit at the time was rabbit
23:32
and Sharon Nelson, Devin Miller right now he's in Baltimore, but
23:36
he's he he was a rabbit and Sharon, I would go to some of
23:39
his classes once a week. So I was I was, this is where I
23:43
saw the this this friend of mine, he was, he happened to be
23:47
home at the time and he told he that's where he told me.
23:51
So I was, I was definitely I was growing and at the same time
23:54
like this was, there was something on it as well.
23:56
I still had the dream and I want and I was moving along, but I, I
24:01
was. New transformer at the same
24:02
time. Transfer training and I was a
24:04
little crushed from that. So I was, I was searching for
24:07
something. So it was a good opportunity
24:10
like the the perfect moment where he, he caught me at the
24:13
perfect time. So I went there and it was
24:16
nothing else, nothing else going on in my life.
24:18
So OK, I took why not? So I went there.
24:22
It's busy. You get your pet, you get paired
24:24
up with a room and I can do so who's FFB And you know, they
24:31
take these through everything you learn with them and there's
24:34
sharing. It was really my first time on
24:36
my own without my brother or anyone else.
24:39
So it kind of, no, it wasn't fully immersed, but it was more
24:41
more than I had experienced up until that point.
24:44
And I found that I loved it. So I don't and I made like a
24:48
jump there and I spoke to every Gersonville was there and I made
24:54
the decision, OK, I'm going to go to Shiva.
24:57
At that moment I was like, let's let's give a shot.
25:01
So I was basically in a few weeks later, I was on a plane to
25:04
go that's wow here. And I was in Mahan Yakov also in
25:08
her nose also it's another, it's the Mahershon Mahan Yakov.
25:13
I don't know. Does it go by another name?
25:18
The regular, she told the Shiba. Both Jacobs.
25:22
Every Lynn is it somewhere, man? And how long were you planning
25:26
on being there? Not too long because you need to
25:27
get back, you know. So I wasn't sure what I was
25:29
going to do. Like at that point I had no idea
25:30
because I was it was the independent team obviously
25:33
signed every year with don't necessarily give long term
25:37
contracts. And I wasn't, I wasn't signing
25:42
with any affiliate teams yet. So I was a free agent, but I had
25:45
no idea what I was going to do. Happened to be I got we got
25:48
phone calls right then and we made we made plans and I had a
25:54
few options. I spoke to every Grish and
25:56
others. I was in issue with me for a
25:57
month, month and a half and he told me I should go back.
26:01
I should go play. No regrets.
26:03
Just, you know, see what it's like.
26:05
So OK, so I, I told the Red Sox I would come for some training.
26:08
That's fine. So I'd come So I started
26:11
training here and how knows I start running all of your
26:15
showing in the back of the issue, but there's a there's a
26:18
dirt path I had long toss there and I would my roommate was a
26:22
catcher in high school. I got him, I got him some
26:25
equipment. I I pitched in.
26:27
You're the only person that was ever trying out or like trying
26:29
for like, you know? I mean that nowadays, maybe not.
26:34
There's there's, there's some, there's some guys there.
26:36
But so I, I worked out all all winter and right before I was
26:42
about to go back, that's when I think at the time when I met
26:47
with Gershenfeld and I was going to make this decision, there was
26:51
no like I was just going to go back and that was it.
26:53
Like I was going to go play. And at this point I've been in
26:55
yeshiva for a few months, started learning some things
26:58
Shabasan, just what am I going to do now?
27:01
What about Shabbos? So I spoke to me, told me to sit
27:05
down with the post 2nd and go over if he happened to know
27:08
something about baseball, I'm a pitcher and it's like what,
27:11
what, what would that entail? Is there an issue with that?
27:16
So he said, besides not being the best thing for a good Jewish
27:19
boy like you to, you know, you're going and playing
27:21
baseball and playing our Shamas. So he said he in his, in his
27:24
opinion, there was a there was an issue with pitching on the
27:28
rubber and you're, you're, you're basically getting into
27:31
the dirt and digging into the dirt for, for.
27:34
Because of the cleats. So I don't know if it would
27:37
matter if cleats or not cleats, but you're, you're digging in to
27:39
get to get the leverage to push off, to push off on to to push
27:44
it like you need, you need the different shoe sizes like this
27:48
whole thing. So you need sometimes it's not
27:49
Even so you need the help for yourself.
27:52
So that that that is I don't know if you came down like so
27:55
that's, that's that's probably the biggest issue.
27:59
And I'm playing, I'm playing with the ball on in the in the
28:02
grass. There's there's things I don't
28:04
know. So in his mind there was there
28:06
was an issue. So I that at that point, OK, I'm
28:10
not, I won't play on Shabbos, but let me go back and see if I
28:14
can make the team. I'd be shocked if anyone would.
28:17
I mean, everyone plays on Chavez, yeah.
28:20
There's a there's a couple of guys now that that grew up in
28:23
from homes that are playing in my that are playing major
28:27
baseball now, ones in the leagues and ones in college.
28:31
So only in college actually is Shoma Shabbos.
28:33
He doesn't play on Chavez at all.
28:35
They're both both Shamer Chavez, but one plays on Chavez.
28:37
But he made they, he stays close to the parks.
28:41
He does everything he can besides, you know, that's
28:44
playing. That's the best of his ability.
28:49
This is what this is the Rob I asked and this is she's he was a
28:52
he was a poster of his, you know, so listen to him.
28:55
I went back and I went back about a week early to, to work
28:58
out with a college team in, in Boston before I went down to the
29:01
spring training and my uncle who's my advisor, who asked me
29:06
what I was going to do about shots.
29:07
And that was the first time I kind of had to stand up to my
29:09
family. My family, my parents were
29:11
supportive of everything I did. Even this decision to go to
29:13
yeshiva. They were supportive of that.
29:15
My brother kind of broke the ice already.
29:17
So they, they got over that. But my uncle sent me the other
29:21
room. What's the deal?
29:22
What we ended and it took a lot to I think that was the, that,
29:28
that moment was, was really was lifting the weight off my
29:32
shoulders. Just saying.
29:33
Like, is it because you imply that you know it was a
29:37
heavyweight? Is it because they were fighting
29:39
you? Because you're not going to get
29:39
a job, you're not going to be signed on or?
29:42
Well. Like why?
29:42
Why was there any tension? I.
29:44
Don't know if it's tension. It was just more just like, what
29:46
are you going to do? Are you, are you, are you paying
29:48
a job? He's not paying a job.
29:49
I just want to know what's what you need like.
29:50
You had to make a decision there, yeah.
29:52
OK, well, you know, I made a decision, but I had to that this
29:54
this is this is the so. So I told him what I was going
29:58
to do and he said OK, fine, I get it, no problem, I respect
30:01
that. But we're not going to hold
30:03
anything from the the organization.
30:05
We're going to call them beforehand.
30:06
Just let them know because I was just going to go down there and
30:10
just put, you know, wing and show, show what I have and see
30:13
if they liked me and then tell them afterwards and then try to
30:15
work it from there. But she, she didn't like that
30:18
idea, which I get, you know, looking back on, I get that.
30:23
So he called back and they basically said that that it
30:25
probably it's not going to work out if I had to change your
30:28
mind, change your heart. They love to see what I got and
30:33
and so at that point I. If she could go back, would you
30:39
have not sold them? Tried to play and see what would
30:41
happen. Well, I would have had some like
30:44
my uncle. So then if my uncle was in the
30:46
picture and it was just me, I probably that's a good question.
30:50
I probably probably I would have tried to go down and see what,
30:53
see what, see what happened. Would you?
30:56
I don't know, It's tough. It's so hard, so hard.
30:58
There's there's so much competition and and there are
31:01
everyone at that level. Everyone basically could play in
31:06
the in the in the majors. It's there's little tweaks here
31:09
and there. It's a lot of the mental game
31:12
that has to do with it, that that makes it make a make a
31:15
break it and the difference between a Major League and a
31:18
minor leaguer and All Star and a just a regular player.
31:22
Were you, were you crushed at that moment?
31:24
Like when you realize I'm not getting signed on, it's because
31:27
I'm an Orthodox Jew. I don't.
31:29
Know. How do you How do you this time?
31:31
23 so 24. Until you knew that you liked
31:35
sports, but you're probably pretty young kid.
31:38
Until now, it's all been like, I'm, this is my dream.
31:40
I'm going to be. I'm going to be big.
31:42
Yeah. And that's like, I'm not going
31:43
to be anything in the sport. Yeah.
31:45
So how did that feel? Yeah, it was.
31:48
It was a loss. I mean the loss of a dream, loss
31:50
of a dream, loss of just routine, schedule, habits,
31:56
everything that I was used to. But the Judaism like did.
31:59
It I didn't. I didn't.
32:00
I didn't. Yeah, So I did.
32:01
I didn't blame anything. I had no blame nor no resentment
32:05
towards Judaism, towards God. And I did.
32:08
I went right back like a week or two later.
32:11
I wanted it back to yeshiva, welcoming open arms.
32:14
It was a, you know, one place. Great place, great guys, amazing
32:17
remaining. And so if if, if Phil definitely
32:22
filled the hole, that's healthy or not.
32:25
It was. It filled the hole and I jumped
32:29
right back into it and I haven't looked back since.
32:33
It took me a while. I kind of separated myself for a
32:37
while from sports following being anything with baseball.
32:44
You play now. So, so now.
32:45
So more recently I started coaching OK and the, and the
32:49
there's an Israel Baseball League unlike like the little
32:52
leagues I played last year in the in the, in the adult league.
32:55
That was the first time I I took 20 years off.
33:00
So as a little dust in, in the in the shoulder.
33:04
But the what wasn't bad, better than I expected.
33:09
OK, now. We've gone through that history.
33:10
That's very interesting. The pivot from that to to
33:14
counseling, yeah. And that's a significant pivot.
33:17
I feel I'm actually going to make a mistake here.
33:19
I'm going to make an assumption about you to correct me.
33:21
Someone who's involved in sports and wanting to be big in sports,
33:26
Part of that is, is gory. It's being the hero tandem.
33:30
So I'm going to do really, I'm going to be the best pitcher or
33:33
whatever it may be. Now you're you're pivoting from
33:35
that to being the person that's behind the curtain like you are,
33:40
you know, behind other people's stories, other people being
33:43
heroes in their own lives, and you're just helping them be a
33:45
better main character. That's like a total opposite.
33:48
Yeah. You know, jump.
33:49
So was that easy for you? Do you enjoy it as much as, you
33:53
know you enjoyed sports? Well, that's journey life.
33:56
Good question. So I took, I took a few years
33:59
off, I mean from, from anything. So I was learning.
34:02
I had my two years in Mahanako and then I got married and then
34:05
I was learning another two years after in another Habura.
34:12
In the same issue, you know. Someone else.
34:15
So I had a lot of time working on myself and Nakanaka was
34:21
there's a lot, it's a lot of you know, a lot of masir sabadka go
34:25
this other than it's a lot of work there.
34:26
So there's and working with my riband even afterwards on this.
34:31
So there's definitely a lot of inner work there that I did in
34:36
those four years. I think it would have been a lot
34:39
harder if I made that jump immediately without those four
34:46
years and and kind of just refocusing if I jumped right
34:50
back right into counseling right into mental health.
34:53
And I probably would have felt that because it definitely had
34:55
in in in my my career, my sports career.
34:57
That was my probably one of the best downfalls was having that
35:00
that outcome based like being the best, being the All Star and
35:05
the Simon litter and and that after me off looking back now
35:10
knowing how these things work, that that that helped me back
35:15
that mindset, but it would have translated my took.
35:18
That next thing is like take like this, that back seat behind
35:21
the curtain and that probably would have difficult.
35:24
I think through through the four years of learning and working
35:27
myself that had it helped me make the transition.
35:32
How'd you get to therapy? You made the transition.
35:34
So my, so my, my rabbi is my mentor by when our second year
35:39
Makanakov, he has a whole program of getting to know
35:42
yourself. And she, he himself is a
35:44
positive psychologist and, and he got his also his side, his
35:50
side, the also his doctorate. So he has this program, this
35:55
works, this, this workbook of getting to know yourself.
35:58
So through that I learned my inner strengths and, and you
36:02
know what might be good at? And there's a list of things
36:04
that I could have chosen past, I could have gone.
36:07
So this was the one that I, I chose.
36:09
I felt like this I connect to and and the program worked out
36:14
did worse Wilder so I could do I was married.
36:17
I had our we had our first child assigned.
36:19
So I was able to do summers, intensive summer classes and
36:24
then field work anywhere in the world doing the Internet
36:27
through. So that was that was a big draw.
36:30
OK, OK. So now you're involved in
36:33
therapy, moved on from the sports and within therapy
36:37
you're, you're fielding all different sorts of, of issues,
36:40
as you said before, all the way some anxiety where families are
36:43
falling apart and stuff like that.
36:46
Crawling, I wouldn't say crawling, it's not the right
36:48
word, but climbing up, climbing up to being a director, I'm
36:50
leading. Does that mean, and I'm, I'm
36:54
asking this very instantly, does that mean you're, you're really
36:56
good? Or like how do you like what
36:57
makes someone a director you know and a major therapy
37:01
institution? Timing was probably more than
37:04
just being being there, the right right time, right place.
37:07
For that I had another very funny answer.
37:09
So very political. So truth is going back like.
37:16
The reason why I asked this because I do think it's an
37:18
important question. So I do think that sometimes
37:22
people conflate and I don't know if it's inappropriate or not.
37:27
Position with experience and expertise, which is not again,
37:32
it's my assumption I might throw is not always necessarily the
37:35
case. The director of a program might
37:37
not be as still to some of the players in the program.
37:40
Just the director has the best, you know, available pieces to
37:45
the puzzle to put everything together right.
37:46
So that's why I'm answering my question.
37:47
Right. So I think so that's so I think
37:50
it was, it was a, but I think it was, it was a, it was a real
37:53
answer that in that moment there was a need.
37:57
And that was probably the best, it was the best fit in the
38:00
moment and it made the most sense because I had, I was
38:04
already there for a couple of years.
38:05
So I knew the insurance and outs and things like that.
38:10
So going back, I think before that I just another interesting,
38:16
an interesting journey that I took.
38:19
I, after I graduated, I moved back to the states, to the
38:23
Boston area and I and I worked in a jail for three years.
38:29
Yeah, to to get I wanted, I wanted a real experience and
38:33
just with my my Hebrew. My Jews weren't enough.
38:36
But with my Hebrew, I didn't think I could do that here.
38:38
I don't think it would have been.
38:39
I would have been best fit to to work in it in the prison system
38:43
here. But.
38:45
You can't speak Arabic? Yes, I'd say something not.
38:47
Correct. Oh, boy, erase that.
38:53
The so I was in jail for three years and that was an
38:56
unbelievable experience. I, I, I'd asked people that were
38:58
in the field what would give me the best experience.
39:02
And they took, that's what they, they guided me to something
39:04
along those lines. So I had, I had some connections
39:08
and I got in. Yeah.
39:10
It, it really it not only it made me a better clinician, but
39:15
just as a, as a person. I, I had to really do a lot of
39:20
work, you know, inner work. There also they, they push you,
39:24
they really push you. The, the, the there's a lot of
39:27
personality disorders in in, in the prison system between
39:31
antisocial personality disorder, borderline personality disorder
39:36
and there there's guys you, you have to in in to make quick
39:41
decisions and they're, they're, they're pushing your buttons
39:46
can. You give an example because
39:49
you're there to. Help them yeah, but they also
39:52
see you as as part of the system because you're working for the
39:56
jail. OK, so I would go you're it was
40:00
mandatory to go down to so that so I don't know what they call
40:04
it that's not that, but solitary fine.
40:05
Obviously I'm not it's disciplinary and what they call
40:10
it you sure they called it. But if someone got is someone
40:13
either someone's a behavioral issue, a problem.
40:15
Or they had misconduct, they would get sent to disciplinary
40:21
and they would. They're basically housed, you're
40:22
housed alone there and you only get an hour.
40:27
I just don't think they call it that anymore, but it's all it's
40:30
basically that's what it you get an hour rec time by yourself.
40:35
You get to come out and walk around by yourself for an hour.
40:37
You get to use the phone. That's it.
40:40
So it's mandatory to have mental health to do rounds there.
40:46
And so they're there if if a person, specifically a big
40:50
person has a behavioral issue, there are guys that would sleep
40:53
all day and they, they wouldn't care like they did something
40:54
wrong. They armed up to it, they take
40:56
it during their time. But there are people that were
40:58
housed there that were behavioral issues.
41:02
They did some pretty gross things when they're in there and
41:07
and they and they're called, there's yelling, screaming at
41:09
you, calling you any name of the book.
41:11
And I had some easy targets, so. Did you show them your horns?
41:15
Didn't no one asked there in baseball, they'd asked.
41:20
Really. Yeah, some, some guys from the
41:22
Latin, Latin American countries it'd.
41:24
Be so cool to have horns. Yeah.
41:25
No, but we, we just don't have them.
41:27
Yeah, OK. It was unfortunate I couldn't
41:29
they they call me a few other names too, but so that was they.
41:34
Didn't ever, like, threaten you. Like when I get out, I'm going
41:36
to get you. No, no, because that was part of
41:39
the part of the work I had. I had an amazing supervisor.
41:42
She was awesome. And she really, she really
41:44
helped me through this and I grew so much from her, from her
41:47
guidance. But just sitting there and sit,
41:50
like looking in the eye, it's really calm taking everything
41:53
they're giving to him and, and put setting boundaries like let
41:56
him. And I, I see and I see you're
41:58
frustrated and I'm so right now, but we're not doing this.
42:01
You know, when you're ready to have a conversation with two
42:03
adults, I'll come back, let me know, and you walk away.
42:06
Was that personal growth more because usually people aren't in
42:10
the situation where they're being attacked so aggressively
42:12
and so you OK, so that's right. So you got to build yourself up
42:15
and turn like I have someone that's spewing so much hate.
42:17
I can't imagine coming from a place but I love myself sort.
42:20
Of yeah, yeah, and or just just just learning how to remain calm
42:23
in that situation and and not and not take it personally.
42:27
This this be like that. They have they're they're going
42:29
through something right now and this they're doing this for a
42:33
reason. I'm just trying to understand
42:35
them and just letting them be, but not also not giving into
42:38
them because that's another thing like you want to appease
42:40
them. Stop, stop, stop, stop,
42:42
whatever. What do you want?
42:43
What do you want? Everything, anything.
42:44
You want this one. What do you want?
42:45
Just stop, stop, stop. That's not that, you know,
42:48
that's not going to teach them anything.
42:49
Just trying to set behavioral limits for them and having a
42:52
whole system of putting on a behavioral plan and just for
42:58
them to learn how to act with human, basic human interactions.
43:02
Wow. I'd imagine that really did
43:05
bleed over to all other aspects of life positively.
43:08
I do think it's pretty negative thing in general.
43:10
You don't have to be working for the system to be affected by
43:14
what someone else says to you, recalls you.
43:16
Because it doesn't matter what they think.
43:19
Yeah, definitely it's and some of this work was done before
43:22
that, but there was just not, not learning not to take things
43:26
personally. Did you ever work with people
43:28
that were murderers or abusers or?
43:30
Alleged. So I was working in the jail in
43:31
the jails, not prisons. So the jails were pretrial and
43:34
and then the the sentenced inmates were there for Max 2 1/2
43:38
years that sent their sentences of 2 1/2 years.
43:40
Some of them had on and afters. So they had they have 2 1/2 year
43:45
sentence and then not determination.
43:46
So they were there for five years, maybe 7 1/2 years, but
43:49
they weren't. They weren't sentenced to state
43:53
prison, which would have been anything, anything more than
43:56
that. But the pretrial inmates were.
43:58
There could have been alleged murders, alleged rapists.
44:01
Did you have a feeling of it was guilty?
44:03
It wasn't. You had a sense, but whether
44:10
they're guilty, there's there, there is something, there's
44:12
something there. Does it ever bother you?
44:15
Like I'm talking to someone that like killed some kids or
44:17
something like that. Yeah, some some people admitted
44:20
like would admit it. I guess I could have been I
44:23
could have gotten me in in trouble being I could have been
44:26
sitting in there and and brought into into court, but I've got.
44:31
I'm talking more about staring into the abyss, Like it's not
44:33
every day that you get to sit down with some of them.
44:34
It's just sounds. Something yeah, it's it's
44:37
someone that's very scary just because most a lot of them don't
44:41
have any remorse that's like this is the anti anti social
44:44
personality disorder where they have no.
44:47
They'll burn people and they just want.
44:48
Yeah, they're, they're charismatic.
44:50
They're they're not. They can, they can charm you out
44:53
sweet talkers, but they don't really, they don't care at all.
44:57
And it's it's scary to see that like that psychopath type of
45:02
personality. It's that's very scary.
45:04
Wow. There was one time I was in, I
45:08
wasn't, I was tired. He was housed in medical for
45:11
whatever reason. There's no reason for him to be
45:13
housed in medical, but he was big time behavioral problem was
45:15
a step down from the state prison.
45:17
He had a state prison sentence and he had another sentence in
45:21
the like a shorter sentence term so.
45:23
They did the shorter sentence first or whatever it.
45:25
Was so first didn't hit his longer sentence and then I think
45:27
maybe I forget what it was that she was sentenced another two
45:30
and I think it may be something that he did in prison, which was
45:36
in the county. So then he had another sentence
45:38
afterwards. So they they brought him in for
45:40
whatever reason he had, he was housed in medical with a bad
45:43
idea. And also if 2 rounds in medical
45:46
because people are mental, it's just it's no.
45:51
So again, it's another, it's a very small unit.
45:54
It's really meant for people with medical issues or mental
45:56
health or on mental, mental health holds for for a number of
46:00
reasons, whether they were suicidal or they're coming off.
46:03
So they were detoxing. A lot of guys deep coming off
46:05
the streets are detoxing. So they detoxing medical and
46:08
then it takes them a while to get used to be able to go to to
46:10
get to a point where they're able to go to general
46:12
population. So it's just it's a it's a
46:15
small, very narrow, it's just, it's for a guy that's behavioral
46:20
and that could attack you like with the guards, it was it was
46:25
more dangerous for the guards to have to deal with him and take
46:28
him off for showers. And that's was it was it was, I
46:31
think that for that reason, it was it was, it was probably a
46:33
bad idea, but there's really no place to put him that made
46:36
sense. So they kept him there and a lot
46:39
and it's also educational for the try to educating the guards.
46:43
What's mental health, what's behavioral.
46:45
So they think everything's mental health.
46:46
So OK, send him to medical because he's crazy.
46:49
But really he's not he's not he didn't have any mental health
46:52
issues. He's more personality issue.
46:54
And there's nothing really to do for that.
46:57
Not not at least in that in that setting, there's not much to do.
47:01
So I was talking to him and he was just charming me up.
47:05
And then I noticed that he had in his hand, he had a he made a
47:12
nice, he carved out a toothbrush and was carving down.
47:16
He made a nice sight like noticed in his handling.
47:20
So bro, we talked behind closed doors some sometimes some people
47:24
you open the door up and talk to them.
47:26
You go into the room with them. Sometimes you bring them into
47:29
your room. But did you share?
47:32
Your life, then. And then was like she was
47:34
behind, he was, he was locked up.
47:36
So I was good. I was good.
47:38
But you knew that he prepared something at that point.
47:39
Yes, but I mean, it could have been bad if I brought him to my
47:42
office, if I opened the door and went in with him, who knows?
47:48
I'm sorry. I alerted the guards and the
47:49
guards of the, which was not. So, you know, for them it wasn't
47:52
pretty, but that's what they paid for, right?
47:55
Yeah, OK. How about those behaviors and
48:00
disorders? Do you spot them in your
48:04
clinical practice as well? Can you?
48:05
Can you see people that have? Been less less less with the
48:09
anti social personality, but there there are are.
48:13
You implying that Jews are special like.
48:15
No, no, just just I haven't, I haven't seen that.
48:17
So at least not to that, that degree.
48:20
I mean, I'm sure there's, there's things out there that
48:23
people out there with different tendencies.
48:27
I just haven't seen it some borderline tendencies.
48:31
It's more dealing with a relational and relationships and
48:36
also also manipulative and and but that I've seen, but it's
48:42
more, I think, seeing all types of mental illness because you
48:45
also see mental illnesses coming from the street.
48:47
There's guys on medicated that are coming in with bipolar and
48:50
schizophrenia and this delusional disorders, anxiety,
48:54
depression, everything and detoxing.
48:56
So like knowing differentiating between I got this detoxing on
49:00
drugs and a guy that's has bipolar, but the suffering
49:06
depression. So being able, I think
49:08
diagnostically and I think I gave me a leg up just being
49:12
there and and that I've used in my office, being able just to
49:17
hear people out here what there seems no questions asked them
49:21
with the symptoms they're experiencing.
49:23
I'm not, I'm not diagnosing them and I'm not, I'm not, I'm not
49:28
providing medication, but then I can, OK.
49:30
This person needs to see a psychiatrist right, right away.
49:33
Or like like Speaking of the psychiatrist, letting them know,
49:38
giving them some insights that I've seen.
49:41
You work with kids as well. Not in the office, not in office
49:46
like I think the the teenagers 141516 but.
49:51
So what should what should parents be looking out for?
49:53
For their flags or yellow flags indicators that their their
49:56
children have are predisposed for violent or criminal
49:59
behavior. There you can.
50:04
I think you can see some stuff if how they treat siblings, how
50:10
they're treating animals. I'm.
50:14
Assuming you're not saying extra cuddly.
50:17
Hugs if they're torturing, you know, fires if they're a young
50:24
age, if they're very into the fire, not just fires, but if
50:27
they're like a lighting setting fires and something to
50:29
something. These are these are these are
50:31
out there things. I don't know how many people are
50:33
seeing these things in in their home, but but it does happen.
50:36
There's a lot of documentaries on this following kids that have
50:42
that have been predisposed to an antisocial personality disorder.
50:46
Psychopaths like those are those are the things that you see.
50:51
It's not it's very difficult because they can they can be
50:53
charming and they can be personal.
50:56
They like they, they learn, they learn, they read, they read
50:59
people, they learn how what to say, how to say to get you to do
51:03
what they want that. Sounds scary.
51:07
That's scary. How do you help those people?
51:11
I don't know if you can. Yeah.
51:14
Tough, not easy, especially, I mean from where I was.
51:17
So it's that I had a lot of conversations with my supervisor
51:20
about that. I pushed, I pushed her a lot on
51:23
that and she pushed me right back.
51:25
She didn't. Bind to Slobacco.
51:27
So so it could be it depends on how you what what is it is it
51:30
that were did they grow up in an abusive abusive home was an
51:35
attachment thing as a young kid? Are you really saying that
51:38
you're the beliefs that people can just not come back?
51:41
I don't know and I wouldn't I again, I, I stayed strong with
51:46
that. I want to believe that.
51:47
I'm talking to you. Now I want to believe that I
51:49
won't believe they can. It is possible.
51:53
That people. There, there, there are certain
51:56
people that I think will it's much more difficult that begin.
51:59
I don't I don't know what what's in their capabilities, like
52:02
what's in what's their, what's their theory, their their could
52:07
have been theory like where, where they're at based on what
52:09
they were given, which is scared like what?
52:12
I don't know. There's a lot of questions
52:13
there, but I haven't, I haven't. I haven't answered yet.
52:17
How about as educators or parents of teenagers, right?
52:19
What indicators should we be looking out for that we should
52:24
really encourage our kids to be seeking medical help or, or, you
52:27
know, psychological psychiatric help?
52:29
Because as, as educators and parents, we're not trained.
52:32
You know, we haven't spent three years in the president and we
52:34
haven't done all this training. So I think there, there's,
52:36
there's a differences. I don't, I, I'm not on the
52:39
belief that only people that are super sick, really sick should
52:43
seek help. But I think as a, as a, as a
52:48
teenager myself, I suffered from very low self esteem.
52:53
I had, I didn't have an inner coach.
52:54
I had an inner critic. I really beat myself up a lot.
52:57
I think it's, it's hard to differentiate.
52:59
Like it was hard for my parents to pick up on that because I
53:02
was, I got up in the morning, I went to school, I went to
53:05
sports, I had a few, I had friends, a good kid.
53:09
So it's hard for them. It would have been hard for them
53:11
to say, hey, this kid needs help.
53:13
So, so it's not so easy. But there's, there are moments
53:18
where, let's say a bad grade or a bad performance and there are
53:26
moments where I would react in a certain way where I would, did
53:31
really, I would verbally be down on myself or I would be, I, you
53:34
could tell by my, my body language, I was, I was slunched
53:38
over and my face was visibly distressed.
53:44
So I think those, those moments like trying to feel like, if, if
53:47
there's moments where you can see, OK, well, how does my, how
53:50
does my child face challenges? How does he, how does, how does
53:56
he or she face moments of failures?
54:00
It's like those moments like that, that, that you could
54:02
definitely help them, that as a parent, you could help them with
54:04
that. But.
54:05
The question was like when went to seek attention.
54:09
So that's why I even in those moments where maybe that parent
54:12
could help, they could also benefit from speaking to someone
54:15
and, and working on that. So like that's, that's kind of
54:18
like the lower, lower level, the higher level.
54:21
I think there's there's, there's symptoms, just things you can,
54:26
you can definitely visibly see, you can see.
54:28
I like to name some of them. I'll tell you why.
54:30
I've definitely worked with parents before where because I'm
54:36
not technically a medical or psychological professional,
54:38
which I'm not, and they won't accept certain signs and they'll
54:41
just assume that they're normal even though they're very
54:44
maladaptive behaviors. So why don't you just didn't
54:47
sell? In which particular there's a?
54:51
1,000,001 problems. That's something to have.
54:53
How about certain common ones that that feel that the parents
54:56
are missing? OK, so I guess maybe so this is
55:01
the the pressure depressive symptoms, you know, low self
55:05
esteem isolation is 1 the big one.
55:09
I'll be isolating themselves. How many do they have friends?
55:12
Do they have a social circle? If they are there changes and
55:17
that maybe they had a social circle, but then there was a
55:19
change and they stopped hanging out with a certain crowd.
55:24
If they stopped, stopped caring about certain things they used
55:28
to be they used to care about. And it could be just simply
55:33
they're going out, but it's still something that you should
55:35
stop. And OK, what's going on here is
55:43
just shutting down these. Maybe they're not as they're not
55:45
as talkative as it used to be. These are these are pretty.
55:48
I just feel like there's some some of them are pretty clear.
55:51
Yeah, but it doesn't matter how obvious they are, people will.
55:56
Pets can be pretty blind now, I'm sure, myself included.
55:59
You know, we don't want to see in our kids those those things.
56:01
Right. And again also, I think the
56:04
biggest thing is, is in the face of a challenge or a disruption,
56:11
how do they handle that? Do they freak out?
56:15
Are they, you know, are they dysregulated?
56:18
Do they do they scream tantrum, run to their rooms, shut down?
56:23
Like, are they not able to deal with that?
56:25
And that's also OK Something we need to address this.
56:28
Yeah, sure. And sometimes it's hard.
56:30
A parent kid doesn't want to hear from the parent also.
56:32
That's why maybe it might be better.
56:35
Yes and no, because it might be better to seek a professional
56:37
help, but maybe more for the parents because the kid, a kid
56:41
might not want to talk to someone else, it might take them
56:45
a while to open up and not sure if they should trust this person
56:48
or nothing's wrong with me. I don't I don't think anything
56:50
wrong with me or I don't want to think the kid that has another
56:53
reason why he may not open up to a therapist, but at least for
56:57
the parents to seek can. Arm the.
56:59
Parents, yeah, with, with tools. So there's a lot, there's a lot
57:01
of therapies on there that are doing that work as well.
57:05
Anxieties also, there's a lot of over a lot of worrying about
57:10
future events, you know, things that may not have may not have
57:13
happened yet. They're they get, they're they
57:19
may get shaky, heart racing, they're complaining about their
57:23
head hurting. Why are you so confident?
57:25
Meaning isn't there such a thing as a bad therapist?
57:28
As soon as we see it to see to see a yellow flag.
57:32
So as soon as yellow flag, we should be picking up the phone,
57:36
calling our Costco. But you know, our Costco is
57:38
good. But I'm saying like.
57:39
It's a great, it's a great question.
57:41
I mean, so again, I don't know if it has to be a a therapist.
57:46
They're they're definitely people.
57:47
There are definitely people that are out there that are they're
57:50
experts in parenting. And can mess up in the room and
57:52
also no. No, it's perfect.
57:54
No, no, what I'm saying, what you're saying makes a lot of
57:56
sense, Says here are signs, parents and educators, you
57:59
should know that this could be a small cry for help.
58:01
And it's it's not a bad idea and probably really great idea to
58:04
get back on from someone who's more experienced and this is
58:06
their, you know, their Dalit, this is their Forte.
58:08
This makes sense. So my final question is, is how
58:10
do we know that will pone someone into the story that
58:14
deserves? To be there.
58:15
So there are other, there are other people.
58:17
Let's say, let's say relief. Relief is an organization,
58:22
international organization that that deals with mental health
58:25
referrals. In Earth's show, there's
58:27
someone, but Rabbi Schnumelkats not not who?
58:33
Who does, who deals? This is his, that's his job.
58:36
He meets with therapists, he asked the, he knows the correct
58:39
questions that he himself went through.
58:41
I think he believed that he's a, he has his degree.
58:45
I don't know if you practice, but he, he, he's, he's well
58:48
versed. He knows the questions to ask
58:50
that you might not know. He knows what's what to look out
58:53
for, what not to look out for, what to, how to push, what to
58:56
push. So when you, when you call him
58:58
asking for, OK, I need a referral for this.
59:01
He's going to give you someone that you can, you know, you can
59:04
trust. OK.
59:06
And they're all, I think the move, the move them does it also
59:08
to some to some degree. And there, there are other
59:12
people, there are other people out there that are doing this as
59:15
well. Gary, if someone wants to speak
59:17
to you directly, yes, how did they get?
59:19
To you so they can, they can. It's a good question.
59:25
They can e-mail me probably the best way to e-mail me.
59:27
So how about we? Put you want us to put your
59:28
contact information on the show. Yeah, bigger.
59:30
Yeah. OK, so let's do that.
59:32
I'm on LinkedIn, anyone's on LinkedIn, but the e-mail
59:35
probably the best way. OK, great.
59:37
Yeah, Thank you so much. This is great.