Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 298 - Intelligence Maneuvers In The Dark

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 298 - Intelligence Maneuvers In The Dark · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:02
Hey there, this is Mark Gruber along with my girlfriend Derek Huntley from America's
0:07
Really Old Stories. You are about to hear the most listened to exclusively jfk
0:12
Assassination podcast and one of my favorites, the Lone Gunman Podcast. Now Here's
0:18
Rob and Joe Dallas Streets, where history reveals that the lone coming story Yo
0:40
Boom that never heals. Fuzzle Shadow Lingers a mystery untold, More Tata Sorrow,
0:46
where dark tales and fold Daily Passo Whispers Secrets in the Jesso Seminal Silence
0:57
where truths remains unseen. See Theories sun Real the Scene the Lode On this
1:06
podcast, Searching for the Light in the Heart of Dallas Square, Shaws take
1:15
Flight, Good Blessing, no silence or your for names unseen sphere see Theories
1:26
Unable Lay the Scene The Londons Podcast, Searching for the Light in the Heart
1:36
of Dallas Square, Shaws take Flight, Shadows take a Flight, New Shadows
1:48
take Flight, New Shadows Still echoes up a faithful day and questions so answered
1:57
in disguise of great a subpru or film Place and less rewind the truth very
2:04
deep, but the seekers grind behind the curtain, the truth of obscure,
2:12
seppin no Silence, where truth remains unseen? Conspiracy theory, unrevel a scene
2:23
the long on this podcast, Searching for the Light in the Heart of Dallas
2:30
Square Shalls take Flights, caplessing no Silence, which truth remains unseen? Conspiracy
2:43
theories unraveling the scene the Home Gunvin's podcast, Searching for the Light in the
2:53
Heart of Dallas Ware Shalls take Flight, Shadows take Flight, Shadow take Flight,
3:12
no sensing, no silence, where truths remain sunseen, mersy theory,
3:19
sunrav scene the Hungoman's podcast, seeking to ignite the flame of truth and darkness
3:30
shining bright, professing no silence. You muted, ha ha, gotcha,
3:49
Wow, And here we go. That was fire. What's up? Everybody?
3:54
Welcome to show. This is episode number two hundred and ninety eight.
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And I was gonna save that for episode three hundred because you know, it's
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an epic milestone, but I just couldn't. I couldn't get out of my
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head all day, Joe, and I wanted to surprise you with that fire
4:12
ass intro right, well, disrespect to Roger love his song. We're not
4:15
going to use this all the time we go back and forth, but I
4:18
just thought it was pretty epic. Bro, how'd you? And complete surprise
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to me? How did you make this? Is it like a high a?
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I baby, whoa. I can't take any credit for it. I
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put in a couple of prompts and that's what came out. The very first
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time. I was like, Holy Hannah, right, watches get a watch
4:47
this. Get a copyright strike for it. That'd be dirty. They love
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to strike us, for sure, they love to strike us. Peristroika.
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All right, everybody, this is as Colleen correct or was it Colleen?
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Yes? O MD. That's a clever play on the orchestral maneuvers in the
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dark. If you leave this before Joe's time, this is BJ Before's time
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bj T in the eighties. Joe, Hey, I'm an eighties baby.
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All right, let's sing the song. Oh I can't do that, Okay,
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I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. We're gonna
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have to increase your can you sing it? Yeah? If you leave,
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don't leave now. Please don't take my heart away, right, that's it?
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Hey, respects her respect. I don't have the boss to do that,
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so I just don't pretty good, pretty good, all right, Joe,
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Let's say hi to everybody who has joined us in our hallowed halls this
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evening. First up, of course, we got to thank Big John for
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the super chat. Thank you, sir. We appreciate it, and all
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of them that come in, we do see. Tiny Dancer was first in
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line earlier. I don't know if she's here now, Big Mike with Stoke.
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Trey Dark Side of the Sith is joining otherwise known as Shreveport is joining
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us tonight, and Trey wishes he had some sake because we're gonna be talking
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about some Japanese things this evening. Moose Haven is in the house. Colleen
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the Rocket Queen is in James. What's up, buddy? Hello Scott.
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Scott said he received his order of four new flavors of Silk City Hot Sauce,
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usually discount from this show. So bravo, hell, thank you,
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Scott. We appreciate it. Silk City appreciates it, and I hope you
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enjoy it because it's damn good. His collection there behind him, see and
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uh yeah, I mean I have a lot of Silk City and we had
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like other hot sauce before this, like a lot of extras and we go
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to the mall. There's a hot sauce store. Me and my girlfriend like
7:46
hot things. And you don't need that overpriced crap anymore, Joe, No,
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No, it's I don't even like screw with it at all. The
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hot syrup everything. I mean, it's I mixed them is it's for different
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for different foods. It's absolutely delicious. And uh, gunmen for off your
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order? Correct, bro, Yes, you are correct, yo. Just
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gunman Sally from across the Pond is in the house. Sally midnight Rider umbrella
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man is here. If only we could get dark complexed man in here as
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well, we could have a party. Doug bungled is in the house.
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What's up? Bungled On Gold my man? What's up? So? Yeah?
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First, first off, the bat me and Joe have to both think
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one of our fellow uh commenters here who likes to hang out and watch the
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show live. Our buddy Lee who is otherwise known as Hell comes to play
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the Bloody Benders for nice enough to send both Joe and I right his book
9:07
that he wrote, and he was nice enough to autograph and write a little
9:11
nice note and sign it for us. So yeah, if you'd like to
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check out Lee's book. It is eighteen seventy three. The nation was horrified
9:24
by eight bodies found mutilated and buried in a cabin or behind a cabin on
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the Kansas Prairie. Cold blooded murder. They're fueled by ribery, fame,
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and twisted spiritualism. None were spared, age nor gender mattered. Fact in
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mid are often intermingled in telling of the saga of the murderous Benduff Family.
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For the first time ever, new evidence is presented to tell the true,
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untold story of the bloody Benders, cutting through the height mysts and fabrications.
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Justice has finally come for the victims of the benders devilish deeds. So if
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you're into true crime, check it out and support our buddy Lee. Ralph,
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I'm sure you can find this on Amazon. Yes, as we are
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speaking, you love Me and Joe both love true crime. We do.
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And you got to switch it up. You can't always read JFK books,
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you know. Yeah, you get burned out. Yeah. They say spice
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is the variety of the life. Wait I got that wrong, Oh,
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Joseph, variety is the spice. But uh yeah, I just want to
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read a sentence or two, he said, Joe B loved you coming on
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board the TLG. Great addition to the show. Enjoy the two different styles
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of presenting the details that you Rob have never veering away from solid documented research,
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and obviously he's a researcher himself. I truly appreciate your attention to detail
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on facts over myth and rumor. Keep up the good work and keep digging
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lead. So thank you again, Lee. It's such a nice note.
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I can't wait to read this and really appreciate it. Bun most definitely,
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So, Joe, let's dive right in. Shall we hop on the USS
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Bexar and head over to the land of Nippon if you will? Otherwise there's
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Japan for US Americans over here. We're going to Japan. M h,
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where's the can you do the time travel thing? I can't find it?
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Yes? And hold on, hold, please hold please? Where is it
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here? You got more than six bobbers? Oh, I'm sorry that was
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the wrong one. Yes, And we take the time traveling journey to the
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late nineteen fifties to so Raw. I was thinking recently, and you know
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you and I talk about different topics every week of what we can come up
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with for the show, what's what the audience is interested in? What's fun?
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What possibly you and I haven't explored in different in different ways? Right?
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And I had an idea earlier this week. I was like, you
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know, I really am trying to redefine my biases and thoughts on Oswald.
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And I mean, let's face it, I mean there's a lot of things
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that everyone in this community will accept because it might fit there a certain narrative
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or this or that. But I think it takes real I don't want to
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say courage, but I guess I'm like intellectual courage really, like like go
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back on your bias and be like, what did I have wrong? What
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did certain people in certain areas of his life think about him? What's consistent?
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And an idea I had was what did his earliest marine buddies have to
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say? And a couple of them testified to the Warrant Commission, a lot
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of them, most notably Kerry Thornley, which we did a great episode with.
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I'm gonna say this right, Rob Andre Cordescu very good too. I
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listened, sir, but and that's that's number two sixty five. That's a
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great episode and really went into him. But there's a lot of interesting characters
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in his Oswalt's background, and you know, a lot of them have pretty
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consistent things to say about him and his demeter and his beliefs. And I
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just wanted to kind of reset my thoughts and like go back and look at
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some early statements, and I did this week, and some dude, sometimes
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you have to, because you know, a lot of people think Oswald is
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very simple and not complicated, when he is, in fact, the exact
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opposite of that, right, not only with his character, but with his
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family dynamic, his interpersonal relations with people throughout various stages of his life,
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from school, work, the Marines, his siblings. You know, it's
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just it's a very interesting case study and to ultimately understand Oswald and factor that
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into your belief of whether or not he was involved that day on November twenty
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second, nineteen sixty three. I think it's important to know just about everything
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that you can about this, what this guy is doing and why he's doing
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it, because when we're talking about his time in the Marine Corps, this
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is right before his defection to Russia. This is seemingly where a lot of
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the table gets set for Oswald because I can't help but think that his early
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dismissal, release from the Marine Corps, his hardship discharge, and how quickly
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it went through was not somehow of a ploy. You know, from the
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time he came home and then three days later he's on a freighter ship to
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Europe. I mean, these these kind of things take planning. And when
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you're talking about these odd like Albert Schweitzer College, how the hell would Oswald
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even know that place existed? The country of Sweden didn't even know that the
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college called Albert Schweitzer College was in Sweden. So how does somebody, you
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know, way outside of the scope know these things? Why is he doing
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what he's doing, Why is he moving here? Why is he going there?
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And it's important to understand this guy, and you can do that from
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his interactions with people and their observations and their recollections. So I said,
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that's what we're going to be doing today is taking a look and see what
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a lot of his marine buddies said about him, because these are the guys
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that were bunking with him, spending a lot of time with him, working
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with him, doing operations with them. So I think it's important to listen
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to what these guys have to say. So Joe, let's go, let's
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do it. And it is it's almost like and I'll get into it.
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But so this is something I found from Mary Farrell. It's from Jfkassassination dot
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Net, I believe, and this is kind of an Oswalt timing of his
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marine activity. And he reports the marine basic training. October fifty six,
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he goes to Naval Air Training Technical Training Center, Jacksonville, Florida fifty seven
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in March. In May of fifty seven, he goes to Biloxi, Mississippi,
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to Kessler Air Force Base for another radar training program. It was only
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a few days. He then goes to El Toro, California, July fifty
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seven to the Marine Corps Air Station, and August late August September fifty seven
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he gets on the USS Bexar and crosses the Pacific the Big Pond and arrives
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in Atsugi in late fifty seven and then goes to a couple various Pacific like
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operations details in the Philippines and Indonesia. He actually was court martialed twice during
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nineteen fifty seven. In nineteen fifty eight, he shoots himself with the pistol
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and I believe it was the Philippines or Japan. It says Japan here,
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But pistol fell out of his locker that was loaded and fell on the ground
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discharged and kind of gave him a contact wouna brush of the skin on losing
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the urn there. But he was court rushaled for having an illegal gun.
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And then he got into a fight with the sergeant famously and poured a beer
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on his head. Then I we call that a grazing. Grazing, yes
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there he go, yes, so, and you sent me something earlier in
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the week, Rob. And this on the left is a list of his
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Marine Corps colleagues. But I don't want to say buddies. I want to
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say like acquaintances. People that had claimed to know him, that were in
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the same platoon, squad company interacted with him at some point, and a
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lot of them, if you see on the right, based on some FBI
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interviews, really didn't know him that well. And he was kind of very
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nondescript, right Like he wasn't the most outgoing version. He just kind of
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kept to himself, a loner. Like we'll see a lot of people will
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describe him. So as I was looking into it this week, I'm like,
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how do I determine who was his closest like acquaintances, companions Because Oswald
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didn't have a best friend, right, he really didn't. But Daniel Powers,
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who testified to the Warrant Commission, was I'd say, as close as
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any marine was to him. It's he wasn't like he didn't have a best
20:25
friend, Like he spent three months with Kerry Thorntonley, Like it wasn't you
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know, they spent three years together. So Daniel Powers was initially stationed with
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Lee and Jacksonville, Florida, and then traveled It was like kind of a
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six man radar squad. I don't know the best way to say that to
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Kessler Air Force Base in Biloxi, Mississippi. Like I hadn't mentioned for Aircraft
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Control and Warning Operator course, which included instruction in airport surveillance and the use
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of radar, and this guy was in the same I'm want to say,
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unit, I think it was, uh, well, we'll get to the
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akrom later, but uh in the next slide or two. But he went
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to the Japan with Lee on the same ship and Lee taught him how to
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play chess, and they played frequently for four to sometimes eight hours a day.
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As he said, is a warrant commission, So this is kind of
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it. It stands out to me on that list of maybe fifty marines right
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of names. Uh, this guy knew Oswalt and he's gonna he has a
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really funny comment. Rob. We're gonna get into it in a second,
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but I'm gonna take your queen. Oh well, it's funny how you just
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made that tone, because that's exactly what he's gonna say. But he said
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he would. Uh. A loaner isn't a real is a port Uh?
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Mister Jenner of the Warrant Commission asked, was Oswalt a loner? Well,
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he was at Tessler Field. I would say no. A loaner is a
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real poor term to use. I think that he was an individual that found
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it hard to come in closer relationship to any other individual. Sounds like a
22:11
loaner to me. But he's being really proper for sixty three and I can
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remember that he taught me how to play chess going over and he was quite
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a proficient chess player. And well, let's not say he was real position
22:30
proficient. He used to beat me and it would it wouldn't take too much
22:33
proficiency for me to beat me. And he would sit and play and we
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would maybe play forty eight hours. If he lost, it would be irritating
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to him, but not to a point where he would get violent or anything
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of this nature. But he was real happy and pleased when he would win.
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Okay, that makes sense for like an eighteen nineteen year old kid at
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the time. But this is what he says here, Rob and to me,
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he was an individual Oswalt that could come to a point that I don't
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that he would come to a point in his life where he would have to
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face a decision. Now this is just again a personal opinion. He had
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a large homosexual tendency, as Tia, this is a guy that's playing chess
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with him, that was like going to trading with him on the boat to
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Japan. So as far as I was concerned, and well, maybe not
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these tendencies, but a lot of feminine characteristics as far as the other individuals
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of the group were concerned. And I think he was possibly an individual that
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would come to the point of his life that you have to decide one way
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or the other, mister Jenner, on what on a homosexual or leading a
23:52
normal life. And again, now this is a personal opinion. He was
23:59
always regarded as an individual that was a meek person, one that you wouldn't
24:03
have to worry about as far as leadership was concerned. He could easily be
24:08
led. That stood out to me, Rob Yeah, an individual that was
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influenced by education and was impressed by a person who had education, and an
24:21
intelligent individual. Now George de Morinshel just like stands out to me in that
24:26
statement, right, right, for some reason. So let me just finish
24:32
his statement and then we'll discuss what gave you the impression he might have had
24:36
homosexual tendencies. Again, this is an unqualified opinion, mister Jenichoes, did
24:41
you say I'm qualified, yes, Because obviously I'm not qualified to say one
24:47
is or is not. That's really but having seen a number of them and
24:53
seeing their characteristics as far as as manner of walk, dress and just their
25:00
personality, I would say possibly his was similar to them in some respects.
25:03
You found him effeminate, I would say yes, A lot of his mannerisms
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were closely related to other homosexuals that I had seen in my life up to
25:11
that period of time. And this is just not some guy that like randomly
25:19
was with him for a day or two. Right, So, oh,
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stop it, Danny, Are you gonna move or not? Quld stand in
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my crotch? Do you have any feeling with respect oswalt me? Oh?
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He asked why he was in the Marine Corps. I think that the reason
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he was in the Marine Corps was that there wasn't anything better for him to
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do at this time. I to think like escaping the family and Marguerite,
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right, was the reason that he felt in recalling again, and he just
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somewhat was a rolling stone. He didn't care to go to school, and
26:02
he just as soon as gone to the service to get out of people's hair
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at home, that type of attitude. Did you get any fights with him?
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No, I didn't say so. There wasn't anything that stays in my
26:11
mind. So kind of stuck to himself, did what he was told,
26:19
but complained about it and was a little effeminate while doing so. All Right,
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a couple of things here real quick, as we catch up, Joe,
26:29
I haven't. According to Mike, Bexar is pronounced bear. It's the
26:34
name of the county that San Antonio, Texas in so Texas will now be
26:40
known as Tease. Now, Mike, I don't I don't know what kind
26:47
of language Bexar has pronounced bear in, but it ain't US American. Tell
26:52
you that that ax is there for a reason, sir. Let's see what
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else. Greg. I saw he was in Italy earlier on Facebook, and
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I was wondering, I said, is Greg gonna be able to join us
27:07
from Italy? Well? Guess what, Well, he's joining us from Italy.
27:14
That's cool. You're the man, Greg. Feel special. You're in
27:18
a sweet, beautiful country and you're hanging out with us degenerates Italy is well.
27:22
I did the same thing, Rob True twenty twenty three email that started
27:29
it all came from it Swish is gonna swish? Swishes sweet and yeah.
27:38
Like de Morninshield, Joe David Ferry could be seen as an intelligent, older
27:45
gentleman mentor type one hundred percent, among other things, tehas behar are like
28:00
joy Behar right. I don't know, really, you know what she reminds
28:07
me of. I'm not going to say the name. Look at the Behar
28:15
do you know the researcher I sent you the name that forgot their train of
28:18
thought that was like, oh, Biden, uh, she reminds me of
28:23
her. I'm not gonna say it. Who reminds you of her? That's
28:27
that screenshot I sent you. Yeah, but who we're talking about here,
28:33
Joy Behar, No, it has the first Joan is the first name.
28:37
Well I know that, But who are you comparing her to? What they
28:40
are? They are? That's what I just said, Joy Behar. Yeah,
28:47
but I'm talking about Melons, Jones Melons mm hmmm. They kind of
28:53
sound the same. I'm just going on voice all right, I'm confused.
28:56
Okay, Sorry, let's continue. Joe. Yes, let's talk about Eddie
29:00
Murphy. Yes, so another not that Eddie Murphy. Okay, let me
29:07
see what was Ernie Oswalt was so good? All right? So Paul E.
29:15
Murphy, Paul Eddie Murphy, Paul Edward, Yeah, thank you.
29:25
Gave a statement in It was May of May twelfth, nineteen sixty four,
29:34
and he said served in the US Navy from fifty six to September fifty nine,
29:41
stationed at Atsugi. Spent four to six weeks in Okinawa. Late fifty
29:47
sevens Philippines sube Bic bay QB Point. Oswalts was self contained and withdrawn.
29:56
He complained about orders he had received from superiors, but followed them. Although
30:02
Oswalt did not normally expound on his political or ideological views, I am of
30:07
the opinion that he was generally in sympathy with Castro MM, so he's early
30:15
on the Cuban thing, even before he defects. One night in the barracks
30:21
in Japan, I heard a shot in an adjoining cubicle. I rushed into
30:25
the cubicle to find Oswalt sitting on a foot locker looking at a wound in
30:30
his arm. When I asked what had happened, Oswalt very emotionally replied,
30:34
I believe Oswalt was That didn't sound too emotional, John Well. Oswalt's reply
30:44
wasn't emotional, so I was going with that. I thought you said it
30:47
wasn't emotional, unemotionally replied, unemotionally, Yes, got you. I misheard
30:55
you. Thank you for clearing that up. Oswalt was at the time in
31:00
possession of a small caliber pistol, which he was not authorized to possess.
31:06
While in Santa Ana, Oswalt had a subscription to a newspaper. The worker
31:10
and the Socialist members of the unit saw a copy of this paper they passed
31:15
through the mail rooms. There's a little incident about that we'll get into.
31:22
I remember Oswalt could speak a little Russian even when he was overseas. I
31:26
have no recollection of his studying either Spanish or German. Oswalt was proficient at
31:32
his assigned job, but he was below average in the areas of discipline and
31:36
military courtesy. He was, however, personally quite neat. Although Oswald drank,
31:41
he did not drink excessively. His temperament was such that he would push
31:45
companions to the verge of fighting, but seldom, if ever, actually took
31:52
the step of engaging in a fight aka throwing the first punch. Reminds me
32:00
of bring years. So he's a pussy. Yeah, that's another way to
32:05
say it, right, he wasn't going to take you know, the first
32:08
swing, right, Joe. In Spanish, the x we re pronounced like
32:14
you were howking up with loogie, so it would be it would be right.
32:25
Yeah. I think we can all just agree that no nobody knows how
32:30
in the hell to say this word correctly, and Greg Ashley said he's in
32:36
Italy as well. Maybe you guys can drop some sid and go look at
32:38
the Leaning Tower pizza and check it out. Did you say pizza. I'm
32:45
joking, Joe, Pizza pizza. I haven't bet to northern Italy yet,
32:53
but Greg just look looks for Ashley. He's got gigantic thighs. He's the
33:00
thunder from down Under. Last from mister Paul Murphy. No recollection of Oswalt's
33:07
religious beliefs, no dates, you know, he really didn't. He was
33:14
nicknamed Harvey after Harvey the Rabbit. I thought, there's different. There's Harvey,
33:22
there's Ozzy, there's obviously we've heard there was a Harvey Rabbit. Harvey
33:27
the Rabbit was a show going on at that time. I was reading today.
33:35
Obviously his middle name being Harvey. So it's again kind of consistent,
33:40
like kind of nondescript, kind of in the background. Did what he told,
33:45
complained a lot didn't like authority. Porter Beera has sergeants had obviously got
33:52
court martial. I find that one hard to believe. But okay, well,
33:57
I mean it's in the military records, right, so it's not like
34:00
that's not a bitch move, that's a boss move, you know what I
34:02
mean. Like, Yeah, I'm not sure if that was in The Blackbird
34:08
or The Queen Bee. I think it was the Blackbird. H The Queen
34:13
Bee was more of the upscale one where he was, you know, allegedly,
34:20
Yeah, is that where he met Miguel allegedly I believe so, allegedly
34:29
according to Miguel else and Dick. Uh. But so that's very interesting.
34:39
M speaking this year at Lancer by the way, get your tickets now through
34:45
our link down below. And I did meet him last year, a really
34:50
nice, nice guy. He signed my lanser thing. Yeah, so,
34:59
and uh, he's still working on stuff, and you know, I like
35:02
him. You know, I don't agree with everything he says, But get
35:06
to two JFK researchers in the room that agree on everything. Dare you to
35:12
try it. You can't even get him on the internet. So you have
35:19
Murphy. I don't trying to quick this up. Next is mister Nelson Delgado
35:27
and the cat Yep met him in fifty nine and I'm sorry fifty seven or
35:37
fifty eight. I'm sorry. We had basic interest. He liked Spanish and
35:42
he talked to me for a while in Spanish, were talking about Oswald,
35:45
or tried to, which is insinuating his Spanish wasn't good and since nobody bothered.
35:53
You know, I was kind of a loner myself, you know,
35:57
I didn't associate with too many people leave. How old we were at the
36:01
time, seventeen or eighteen, the same age as Oswald, right, he
36:06
was the same age, and nothing really developed until I went on leave.
36:12
Oh yes, so now he's like remembering at the time he was. He
36:17
was commenting on the fight that Castro was having at Sierra Madres at the beginning,
36:27
just about the turn of fifty nine when I came on leave. When
36:30
I went on leave, it just so happened that my leave coincided with the
36:35
first of January when Castro took over. So when I got back, he
36:39
was the first one to see me, and he said, well, you
36:43
took a leave and went there and helped them, and they all took over.
36:46
It was a big joke. So Oswald got jokes right. His Spanish
36:52
friend leaves, Castro takes over, and he's like, yo, would you
36:55
go and help them? That's funny to me. I don't know, Hey,
37:01
Naielsen, will you helping him down there and see Aerra Madres. But
37:09
to know about I mean maybe that was in the news back then, but
37:14
that's a pretty specific reference to a battle, right, Well, what was
37:19
it? A every day old newspaper reader, right, So also found this
37:28
interesting in Delgado's testimony. There were about forty men involved in this pot.
37:31
This was a rifle competition. The first five got money. Mister Delgado,
37:37
I believe got third, and then goes on to explain the three categories shout
37:44
out, garden and guns. Sharpshooters were the lowest category that you could acquire.
37:55
Marksman is kind of the middle, and experts are the top. So
38:00
Oswalt's first rifle test, he got a marksman, Aka got the middle,
38:07
but just by like one or two points. It's like a one two hundred
38:13
or something, just a bit outside. But when he was in Japan,
38:21
he didn't even maintain that sharp sharpshooter. He went back down to the marksman.
38:28
So he digressed, right, And this is actually in the Warrant Commission
38:34
notes that I was reading on his brain activity. And you know, they
38:38
asked him a bunch of questions about that, and they said it was a
38:40
pretty big joke because Oswalt got a lot of quote, Maggie Drawers, drawers,
38:46
you know, a lot of missus. But he didn't give a darn.
38:51
You know, this is a radar operator, a pretty much target so
38:55
bad looks like Maggie's Holy drawers. So they were making fun of him because
39:01
he was missing. And that kind of correlates to what some of the Russian
39:07
people told when they went to go hunt for rabbits, right, and they
39:09
have to give him one or something, so he didn't walk back with nothing.
39:14
I don't know. I'm just looking for correlation, That's all I do.
39:20
But you know, these guys, the FBI investigated del got or questioned
39:25
Delgado four times about his Oswald's rifle proficiency. You told the FBI then your
39:34
opinion, Oswalt was not a good shot, right, Yes, and he
39:37
did not show any unusual interest in his rifle. Yes, he was mostly
39:42
a thinker, a reader, very cerebral. Interesting, mister Delgado, because
39:52
as I read this, I'm like, okay, is this guy's testimony looks
39:55
just like going overboard, just trying to indict Oswall succumbing to the pressure.
40:01
But this is someone that's saying things against the preferred narrative, right, see
40:07
senor and another guy who had traveled with him in the rain Ar Division.
40:14
It was the MCLF, the Marine Corps air facility. He was in m
40:19
calf nine, number nine, I believe, Squadron nine. And he was
40:24
not a friend of Oswaltz, but he was the one that said that some
40:30
officer got really upset because Oswald was receiving Russian literature, the worker, those
40:36
type of things. But Oswald was getting it through the official Marine Corps like
40:42
S three Operations Unit mail like that's being read. So he obviously didn't care.
40:49
He really didn't, because if not, you'd get that off site and
40:52
bring it back, you wouldn't get it mail. Not so much that he
40:54
didn't care. They didn't care either, exactly. So the War Commission tried
41:02
to make this whole thing about everyone got mad because he was getting communist papers,
41:07
right, But Carrie Thornley says the same thing. Well, first he
41:21
said Oswald gave him a copy of nineteen eighty four. And this is another
41:24
example of Oswalt's humor. They were loading equipment, Oswalt and Thornley and some
41:32
other people, and one day they were moving something off a truck and it
41:39
slipped, and he said, be careful, big brother's equipment, which is
41:43
an obvious reference to nineteen eighty four, which is really funny actually and kind
41:49
of gives a lot of insight into his kind of way of thinking. So
41:52
I found it interesting, and he goes, for one thing, I'm skipping
41:59
here, the little lines. I mean, it's not consistent testimony. I'm
42:05
skipping a little bit the idea that he felt, as did Marx, that
42:13
under capitalism workers are exploited, that in some way some robbers are robbed of
42:17
their full reward essentially, you know, the elites are bad type of thing.
42:23
He felt that under a Soviet under the president Soviet system, for example,
42:28
money was spent for the benefit of the people rather than going to the
42:31
individual. And we know rob from past episodes that his view on that changed
42:38
radically after he left Russia. Well, yeah, because he got a taste
42:44
of the course nonsense for himself. Yep, yep. And this this is
42:49
like a nineteen twenty year old kid trying to figure out life and political you
42:58
know, he grew dirt poor, moving around constantly, crazy mother, no
43:05
father, you know, and every job he had. I'm sure he's getting
43:09
paid next to nothing while the big fat cats above him kept all the money
43:15
for themselves. And that's capitalism for you. Yeah. So it's no stretch
43:20
of the imagination that this guy would have been drawn to something like Marxism or
43:24
communism until you actually experienced for yourself and you realized that the fat cats on
43:30
top are keeping most of the money for themselves and just giving the the lowly
43:35
worker just enough to barely straight by. But that is equal. Everybody just
43:42
gets barely enough to straight by, not just a few. So I guess
43:47
capitalism would be viewed by as was the lesser of two evils. Yeah,
43:52
but this is a young kid in the middle of you know, the Cold
43:58
War in the military, and he's just like I just put a picture up
44:04
with our episode two sixty five with Andre Kodrescie and we talked about Discordianism and
44:10
his interactions Thornley's with Oswalt and how they were debating different systems and philosophies.
44:20
That's what they were doing kind of back then, and you know, it
44:23
was at least in young kids at that time, right, And it's very
44:29
interesting. I have some Kerry Thornley statements, but maybe I'll save them because
44:31
I'm forty ish something. So you can go back to episode two sixty five
44:38
for a great interview and inside into Thorntonley. All right. Next up,
44:45
we got a commenty from Robert Stansberry. Hey, Rob, do you have
44:46
a copy of E. J Epstein's in Quest? If you don't, I've
44:52
sent you mine. I bought it in seventy seven, still in good condition.
44:57
I appreciate it. But I do have a copy of in Quest that
45:01
I think was probably published right around seventy seven as well. It's a little
45:07
tattered in or worst for will, but it's a good one. I don't
45:09
know if Joe you'd be interested in a copy of Edward Epstein's Inquest? For
45:16
sure? For sure? Absolutely. Hey send us an email Robert at the
45:22
Lone Guman Podcast dot gmail dot com, and I'll hook you up with Joe
45:25
and you can get you can hook him up with a copy of the book.
45:31
That'd be great. But you know, just to finish off, like
45:37
a little final thought here and looking at all his Marine Core Buddy statements,
45:42
they're very consistent. He's a loaner. He when they would go on liberty,
45:47
which is leave. He would go off on us by himself when the
45:52
other people would group up, probably go to a bar or maybe a strip
45:55
club. Right, he would go off on his own and then come back
46:00
when he was in Biloxi, Mississippi, which is only seventy miles from New
46:05
Orleans. I believe it was power Powers that said he thought he went home
46:10
to New Orleans every weekend. So he did his own thing, and that's
46:15
very consistent throughout his whole life. You can go back up to the TSBD
46:19
and the Domino Room and eating lunch with you know. It's And we've talked
46:27
to Larry Hancock about this. He's coming out with a new book on Oswalt
46:30
in the fall, kind of revisiting a lot of these things. It's going
46:34
to be really great. Maybe rob some of our findings from last year.
46:39
We'll be in there. I never know, and just trying to always challenge
46:45
your thinking, right, like what are my biases? What can I what
46:51
did I assume that maybe he wasn't true? That's what we're trying to do.
46:57
We tried to do here, Mike said. Mister Dell Got was a
47:00
witness in the trial of Lee Harvey Oswall with Jerry Spence and Vincent Bugliosi.
47:06
So it's probably a clip on YouTube of that, Joe, if you like
47:08
to go watch it at some point. Yeah, we're cleaning things up.
47:15
Ozzie Rabbit was a cartoon. Harvey was an invisible rabbit, and a play
47:22
of the same name starring Jimmy Stewart. That's Gregory Stewart here his great grandfather.
47:29
Actually, I'm choking, and that wouldn't make sense because he was the
47:36
only character they could see, Harvey, And that would makes sense because kind
47:40
of Lee liked to be kind of invisible. You know, almost a lot
47:45
of people don't really remember him. Here you go, Joe, He's got
47:53
me yes. Marky Marks brief from Calvin Line in nineteen ninety two, with
48:02
a small brown stain in the back. We have the best audience to we
48:07
wrong, I know, Thank you, paulk and guns is late to the
48:09
party. But here, what's up, Betty. Uncle Dave's in the house,
48:15
Paula. Thank you, Bellissimo. We appreciate it very much. I
48:25
have no idea what Polisimo means. Those in Italy can help me out,
48:31
I should know. Huh. John Armstrong can see Harvey. Now that's funny.
48:42
That's funny. You get it, heart. You know nobody can see
48:46
Harvey the Rabbit, but John Armstrong can see Harvey. Yeah, it is
48:51
funny. I think Jor still doesn't understand that I do. It's funny.
48:58
Paul is in the house, thy Paul. He's out with the missus but
49:02
still find time to watch this on YouTube and that his wife is Hello,
49:10
Paul, I'm over here and you passed me the damn grapes. Ah,
49:16
we love you, Paul, Thanks for hanging out with us. Yeah,
49:20
thank you, Paul. And just to add some context to that, when
49:22
you watch on rewatch. Uh, my girlfriend said to me recently, are
49:28
we ever gonna hang out on a Friday night? Ever? Again? I
49:34
said maybe not. Hey, you tell her you got your weekend. The
49:40
whole weekend is free. That's why we're doing it on Friday evening. Yeah,
49:52
thank you. I think Dave sent me a link, did he?
50:06
All I see is naivete Oh did you? Oh? I think it was
50:10
below that a couple but I didn't see the link, but I wanted to
50:17
highlight something. Guard and Gun said he probably sent it to the email address.
50:22
Okay, great, forward. Dave is a prolific emailer. We love
50:25
all day, yes we do. Uh, guard and guns. My father
50:30
was an expert from Vietnam until after the First Golf War. He was very
50:35
proud of how long he could still qualify as an expert, because after eighty
50:39
six great year, he could not see worth the shit, so he still
50:44
qualified as an expert. So I mean, Oswalt is like barely qualifying the
50:50
first time. He gets like one or two points in the middle, so
50:53
he's not and everyone says, like, it wasn't a shot, So how's
51:00
he going to make the greatest shot ever? That defines? That defines physics?
51:07
Right, So I thought that was interesting, and uh, I know
51:15
we have some very interesting stuff coming up here, sirry Okay, Next up,
51:21
folks, I have for you a book that I talked to Sally about
51:29
a little bit on Twitter. But not too many people know that this book
51:32
exists. A lot of people are very familiar with the book Cup Daytadd America
51:38
from the early seventies. It was co written by aj Weberman, but not
51:45
too many people know that, I believe. Let me see when this thing
51:50
was published, if it even has a publishing date. Fourteen, conveniently on
52:01
November the twenty second, twenty fourteen. So this book is called the Oswald
52:12
Code, and it's pretty damn big, and it's pretty thick, yeah,
52:20
like your boy, and it examines a lot of crazy stuff. So let
52:29
me read this little do die. Here from the back backside of his book,
52:36
it says the Oswald Code is based on the three most important pieces of
52:38
evidence in the November twenty second, nineteen sixty three Coop Day Todd America Oswald's
52:45
address book, the photographs of E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis and David
52:51
Chris disguised as tramps being detained in an hour after Kennedy was assassinated, and
52:57
the photographs I had the Nash Sational Archives developed from a role of undeveloped minox
53:05
film found among Oswald's possessions in Ruth Payne's garage. The address book contains the
53:12
names of men Oswald was working with prior to his being used as a patsy
53:15
in the Kennedy assassination, disguised as Russian words. There are just too many
53:22
for this to be a coincidence. So there's all kinds of crazy stuff in
53:30
here. For instance, Okay, it is true that there was an undeveloped
53:38
role of Minox film found in Ruth Paine's garage. Now the Minnox camera.
53:45
This is a picture out of the book, but that small thing at the
53:50
top is a picture of a Monox camera. The picture below is supposedly of
53:59
Lee Harvey Oswall. It's one of these John Armstrong you know photos. To
54:04
me, I don't know, man, it don't look like Lee Harvey Oswald,
54:09
but you never know. What do you think, Joe, do you
54:15
have we have an alleged around the time of the Pains? What's this one
54:22
of these? He's got big years in this photo and it looks like he's
54:27
long face sixteen seventeen years old there, I mean, so I'm trying to
54:32
put the timeline together. A. Yeah, I don't know. I don't
54:38
know either. I mean, this picture is not from the Minnox camera.
54:43
I don't know where that. Wow, we have this picture. But so
54:52
Weberman sending a four year request to the National Archives to develop this undeveloped role
54:59
of Minox f in the late seventies, and they did, and they sent
55:01
it to him. Now, by the time this is done, the film
55:07
is twenty years old. Still in the camera, so it's not in the
55:12
best condition. Most of the pictures came out damaged or over or under exposed,
55:22
but one in particular, one photo in particular, let's i'll pop it
55:29
up here is of Oswald in Japan, and according to aj Weberman, is
55:38
also of Jerry Heming in Japan. Now I'll get a little closer on this
55:44
photo for you, of the Hemming figure on the right and the Oswald figure
55:52
on the left. Now, this is supposedly taken on a minnoc spy camera,
56:00
and in Hemming's hand is a garrot stick with a piece of rope around
56:07
it, and it said they were messing with somebody in this photo. I
56:14
don't know. You can't really see because it's overexposed. In the middle.
56:20
Now, is this Jerry Patrick Hemming in the photo? So let's take a
56:23
closer look. And I'm sorry because this is sideways. I don't know how
56:30
to fix that, but let me turn this banner off so you can get
56:34
the rest of his face. Now, the picture on the top, or
56:39
the right, if you will, is actually of Jerry Hemming wearing fatigues,
56:46
and the picture on the bottom or the left is supposedly hemming in this photo.
56:53
I don't know if it is or not. It's not enough information there
56:57
to really tell. But if you see this portion under these pictures are the
57:06
letters H, E, M E. It's like a cursive E and then
57:13
a U with a weird mark under the bottom of it, or or Y
57:19
or a weird G or something. But some weberman's trying to say that this
57:23
is a code name for himming found in Oswald's address book. Okay, Now
57:30
where he gets this from is a weird technique called steganography, okay, where
57:43
an example of a message containing a cipher text by a German spy in World
57:46
War Two, where he's using the second letter of every word to send a
57:54
message. So apparently Neutral's protests is third discounted and ignored ismand hard hit blockade
58:02
issue affects pretext for embargo on byproducts ejecting seats or suets and vegetable oils.
58:10
But when you take the second letter in every word, it says Pershing sales
58:14
from New York on June to first, which is crazy. You know,
58:17
that's a simple cipher text from a German spy in World War two, roughly
58:27
the same kind of thing. So now, aj Weberman is a little out
58:31
there, folks. He's a little cuckoo for cocoa puffs. This is the
58:35
guy that would root through Bob Dylan's trash and find stuff to sell or you
58:43
know, just just it's a weirdo, you know, really Yeah, he
58:47
think he calls himself a garbiologist, like he takes pride in digging through celebrities
58:53
garbage. He's just a weird dude, you know. Yeah, barely.
59:01
I look, Joe, Uh, I've watched. In fact, I did
59:09
a show about this book called The Oswald Code many many moons ago. I
59:15
remember it, sir, because I bought the book. I read it.
59:19
I thought, well, this is different, this is weird. I got
59:22
a lot of questions. I reached out to Webhaman to come on the show,
59:27
and he said no because I was some kind of a Jew hater.
59:35
Apparently interesting. Yeah, I was like, I don't hate Jews. What
59:39
are you talking about, dude, I'm asking you to come on the show
59:40
to talk about your book. What do you know? I think we did
59:44
a local show, uh hating on someone named Cory for being anti Semitic.
59:52
Yeah, you know, I've never done or said anything anti Semitic. But
59:58
whatever, he didn't come on my show. The only show goes on is
1:00:00
that Appermen and there are two peas in a pod and the little Yippi New
1:00:05
York Happy you Go Lucky thing. So here's an example, folks, of
1:00:09
os Wall's address book. As you can see, it doesn't really make a
1:00:15
lot of sense. There's a lot of jumbling on here. Now what do
1:00:22
yeah, some Russian too, But what what he was saying is that down
1:00:29
here at the in the bottom section, this is Russ four four in Furen,
1:00:34
Russ four Fororeen. And we we're been saying that that is a code
1:00:38
code code word for Fiorini, Frank Fiorini. Okay. And then at the
1:00:45
top here we have in the top section in the parentheses part Colin or Cologne,
1:00:53
And he said, well, that's about Ed Collins from enter Pin.
1:01:00
Mixed in with all this mumbo jumbo looks like dates or phone numbers or addresses
1:01:06
or something. For the American embassy in Moscow. It is written in some
1:01:10
kind of code. I will I will give them that because it seems like
1:01:15
I don't know if it's a code per se, but it might be Oswald's
1:01:17
form of his own shorthand right, some Russian scribbles. So the book's probably
1:01:23
like this freaking big, you know what I mean. He's like, you
1:01:28
know, you can't sit there and write every sentence out. Yeah, just
1:01:31
another example. Okay, this is at the top of another page, and
1:01:37
he said, this is the word ter pin written over top of each other
1:01:45
as in his codebook. I'm just telling you what he says. I think
1:01:52
it's a bunch of horse nonsense. And it's a stretch. It's it's a
1:01:57
stretch. There's a whole whole lot of stretching going on, a whole lot
1:02:04
of stretching going on. But you know, I don't know what you can
1:02:13
make out of this, Sally. I mean the pictures on the cover of
1:02:16
the book. There are no other photos in the book from the MINOXX camera.
1:02:23
Allegedly, like I said, most of them came out overexposed, under
1:02:30
exposed, or damaged. The book does contain a lot of documents and various
1:02:42
things, and like I said, it's a stretch to put some of this
1:02:47
together, and some of it you really have to, you know, just
1:02:54
take a step back and be like, all right, what is this guy
1:02:57
talking about. But it's one of those rare books that weirdos like me love
1:03:06
to have in their collection. And see where's Philippe this week? There's a
1:03:10
picture of Jerry Patrick having and aj Weberman having a chat having some fun.
1:03:19
Looks like in the eighties and nineties, maybe even the seventies, who knows.
1:03:24
And Rob I was reading some of Oswalt's marine stuff. You do you
1:03:34
know the weight of Oswalt when he went to the Marine Corps. It's like
1:03:39
a fucking piece of leaf. That's a piece of paper. I guess the
1:03:45
try to guess the weight how much he waited when he went in. Yeah,
1:03:49
one something one thirty five that's about what he was when he died.
1:03:59
He was like, well fifty or something. That is that is skinny,
1:04:03
guys, folks. That is for a man, for a grown man.
1:04:12
A marine, an eighteen year old marine. That is tiny. Do you
1:04:17
need tiny featherweight and a lot of Russia. Uh. Oswalt's you know,
1:04:27
comrades and the Marines thought it was like, yeah, he was nice,
1:04:29
he was cool. We never really worried about him. He just kind of
1:04:31
do what he told. He complained sometimes he was whatever, like he was
1:04:35
a little out there, but you know, he was he was Oswalt,
1:04:42
you know kind of and that's what I'm trying to put together here. Yeah,
1:04:46
we got a lot of good comments, undas his Webmen's nodes are good.
1:04:51
Probably his best work he ever did, except his Lauren Hall phone call,
1:04:56
which Uncle Dave, I need the audio of I have looked high and
1:05:02
low, sir. So if if you can sleuth me out a link to
1:05:08
the audio phone call of Whoeverman and Hall, I would be forever in your
1:05:15
debt, sir. Is that when the wife came on and was like,
1:05:17
why are you talking to him? And he looks like, yeah, I
1:05:23
think it's on a quick hits. It has to be on a quick hits.
1:05:26
I've had it at some point and lost it. But it's it's when
1:05:29
he says there's only two people alive that know what's going me in Santo's traffic
1:05:33
Conte, and I ain't saying ship yeah, and you better have a fucking
1:05:40
army as you come near me. Yes, I need the audio. Uh.
1:05:45
That is just that is the best, like a few seconds of Lauren
1:05:50
Hall. Now see sadly said Hemming said the minox was his and somehow Oswald
1:05:55
got a hold of it. When Heming says they were in Cuba together,
1:06:00
I can't where's Philip when you need him? Yeah? Where you at,
1:06:04
Philip? You were here last week. We have questions, but you might
1:06:10
know some answers to But you also have to take everything, Jerry Patrick says
1:06:15
with a huge grain of salt. Unfortunately, I mean the founder of Inner
1:06:21
Pen. But well, yeah, he was a bullshit artist. If he
1:06:26
thought you weren't serious in your research, if he thought you weren't a serious
1:06:30
research, he was going to tell you anything. Oh and I will give
1:06:33
Weberman a lot of credit because he was with that. Like if you google
1:06:39
Jerry Patrick Heming, you get like that hour's interview with Weberman. Right,
1:06:44
Weberman like was on his stuff, like he was he knew his ship.
1:06:47
He was, well, what about this? But what about this? And
1:06:50
like it was I think I said this like an episode two ago. You
1:06:56
really need to know the context. But it's a fascinating back and forth,
1:07:00
fascinating Where is Dave? Where are you posting this stuff? I don't see.
1:07:12
Just come on, David, I've tried. I've tried. Oh and
1:07:27
by the way, oh sorry, oh, hi Londa, Hi Robin.
1:07:32
I'm looking forward to this sorry tuned in late. Also some weird reason,
1:07:36
there's no place for comments below. No everyone comments. We engage with pretty
1:07:45
much everyone, and it's improv session. Well I think it's below the screen.
1:07:49
I think that those take place after this live video has been posted.
1:07:54
But since it's live, there's a live chat running to the side of it.
1:07:59
Oh, the replay the live chat replay right, Well, no,
1:08:01
it's not replaying until after we're done. All right, right, That's what
1:08:05
I'm saying. Yeah, and then comments can go under the video after it's
1:08:12
been posted. M hm, Well, thank you Linda for joining us.
1:08:17
And uh, let's see Dave said I posted that having claim above. I
1:08:30
haven't looked at every comment but Colleen saying she couldn't connect and kept kicking me
1:08:41
out. Maybe maybe YouTube have some having some technical difficulties. I don't know.
1:08:47
It's not our fault this time, though I do know that that was
1:08:51
true. Lots of things are, but not this one. Mike, Yep,
1:09:04
we got the dog gotdo link in the email. Thank you, sir
1:09:12
Scott coming through with the supersticker. Thank you, sir, Thanks appreciated,
1:09:23
mucho appreciato. Mister Dogatto yep, like he just said it's marksman, sharpshooter
1:09:48
and expert. So Oswald had barely qualified for a sharp shooter, initially in
1:09:57
fifty seven, maybe fifty eight, I believe fifty seven, and then in
1:10:01
Japan went down and qualified as a marksman. And I believe Delgado mentioned that
1:10:11
in his testimony. I believe I read some of that. But it's very
1:10:15
consistent. I mean, he wasn't a sharpshooter. We know that he was,
1:10:19
if you want to say, average at best, but he was a
1:10:24
radar operator. He was a brainiac. He was a reader and intellectual if
1:10:29
you want to call someone that who didn't graduate high school, right, but
1:10:33
uh, you know what I mean, Like, he wasn't. Uh he
1:10:36
was street smart, Joe, That's what I call it. Yeah, he
1:10:40
wasn't. What's the American sniper name that, Chris Kyle. Yes, it
1:10:49
wasn't Chris. Definitely know Chris Kyle. Yes, Chris Kyle. He wasn't.
1:10:55
Yeah, And you know you got to figure that's in the Marines,
1:11:00
when you're firing guns every day all the time. Fast forward four years,
1:11:10
shooting with a rifle that you've never shot before. We have no evidence that
1:11:14
he ever shot before. But we don't even know where he got his AMMO
1:11:18
from allegedly, Yeah, he didn't even have AMMO really, Yeah, you
1:11:26
know, to do those kinds of things, supposedly four years after and you
1:11:31
know, never having shot a gun before since, with a crappy scope,
1:11:35
you know, and a twenty year old rifle. I he was probably Maggie's
1:11:42
drawers in it all over Deally Plaza. Yeah, that's why I kind of
1:11:47
and I have no evidence of this, but like if Oswalt fired a shot
1:11:53
from the sixth floor from the TSPD, I'm pretty sure it was the one
1:11:58
that hit Take. Like, this's just like my gut And thank you,
1:12:01
Sally. You are the best and you're welcome. Your money is much better
1:12:06
spent on us rather than the Oswald Code book. Oh thank you, Sally,
1:12:15
Yes, thank you. Although it is cool collecting obscure books. Yeah,
1:12:20
when somebody asked you, you know that you can always pull one out
1:12:23
and say, yeah, I got this. Someday it might be worth you
1:12:26
know, like Harvey and Lee was worth a lot there for a little while,
1:12:30
then its value went back down the crabber again. How about the Thornley
1:12:34
book, That's like what was kind of unpublished, right, that would be
1:12:42
interesting to get like, that would be cool. It may have been reprinted
1:12:45
by one of those weird Adam go Rightley like publisher places. I don't know,
1:12:53
I could be wrong, but yeah, just a type manuscript or are
1:12:57
you talking about his book like I'll Warrior. Yeah, yes, yes,
1:13:00
that that was actually published. It's probably rare, That's what I'm saying.
1:13:05
Like, how much would I know it's rare? How much it would probably
1:13:10
be worth it to spend it on a book like that? I'm saying?
1:13:13
And oh yeah, yeah, because if you go on Amazon, you can
1:13:19
get lost in like JFK and Oswald books, and there's stuff on there that
1:13:25
I've never heard of, never heard of the people that wrote the books,
1:13:29
yeah, never seen them before. Never You know, it's just like Amazon
1:13:35
has made it so easy to publish in books nowadays. Everybody is an expert,
1:13:41
everybody's an author, anybody can do it. Well, it's all good.
1:13:46
You never know. Maybe one day, I guess Tiny Dancer was taking
1:13:51
a nap. Oh TD, what are you doing there? Whoa TD?
1:14:00
A little disappointed in you? That's all right, she can watch the replay.
1:14:04
That's what it's there for. Yeah, she is a big supporter of
1:14:08
the show. We love her. And did we get into Shrand at all
1:14:14
there, Joe, I think we need we missed that when yeah, let
1:14:17
me uh So there was another marine that was in Oswaltz. I don't want
1:14:27
to say like radar squad type of thing, that unit unit. And guess
1:14:33
what his first name was, Rob Martin. Guess what his middle name was,
1:14:38
Joe Elmo Man. You can't make it up, can you? I
1:14:48
wish he his middle name was like Joe or something. So that rifle tickled
1:14:54
him. It could have been another Jay Martin. If it was like Jeff
1:14:59
or something. Well we should next next we should start looking for Elmo's associated
1:15:02
with the JFK nation. I'm kind of down there's one. So Martin Strand
1:15:15
is a very interesting character. And he was a marine band Strand No tea
1:15:25
Shrand Strand. No, it's not Strand Strand, Shrand, Yes, okay,
1:15:32
thank you sir. And he was in the Marines and he died from
1:15:42
a fatal gunshot wound in the Philippines in nineteen fifty eight. And he was
1:15:46
in Oswaltz. I don't want to say squad unit in his kind of radar
1:15:53
unit, and so they go back to the guy who did the investigation.
1:16:00
Clark Wilbridge, formerly security officer, disclosed he continued to be of the opinion
1:16:10
that Schrand's death was accidental and the result of a malfunction in the receiver section
1:16:18
of his weapon caused by impact of the butt of the peace incurred in the
1:16:25
course of conducting manual of arms evolutions. He also clearly recalled interviews with three
1:16:32
of Schrand's close associates who related that he was a quote bug for drill and
1:16:41
spend considerable time protecting the manual of arms. So I think that means he
1:16:45
was like really by the book in this respect. Wilbridge pointed out that an
1:16:51
error in his I don't know, so essentially, I'm gonna read this here.
1:17:01
There's a lot of uh. There was a lot of speculation was was
1:17:06
this guy Schrand who was killed, who was kind of serving with Oswalt in
1:17:12
the Philippines. Did Oswalt have anything to do with this guy, Martin Elmo
1:17:19
Schran's death. And I'm going to read a little bit from the Third Decade
1:17:27
book the name of Martin Schrand services again in volume four of the hearings of
1:17:34
the HCA when the Committee was more or less forced into investigating a clandestine military
1:17:41
investigation of Oswalt after the assassination, UH it querried the Office of Naval Intelligence
1:17:48
the O and I whether it made any such investigations. The answer the only
1:17:55
Oswalt related investigation done by the O and I UH after was an investigation of
1:18:04
the Martin Strand death. Not even a whisper of that investigation might have revealed
1:18:11
to the HCA, or by the O and I to the HCA, so
1:18:15
essentially get The report indicates that Trand was walking a guard post in the motor
1:18:24
Pool area minutes after being posted and instructed by the corporal of the guard.
1:18:31
He was carrying an M twelve riot gun kind of like a shotgun, right,
1:18:35
rob something like that. Yeah, it's not a real gun, a
1:18:42
military form of shotgun, whether we go, normally used for guard duty.
1:18:46
A guard in another area heard a shot and another guard personnel rushed to the
1:18:55
scene. A guard in another are Oh, so they rush to the scene
1:19:00
finding schrade Trand lying on the top of his weapon and alive but bleeding profusely.
1:19:09
He was transported to the base hospital but died in the ambulance on the
1:19:14
way there. The fatal wound was from a gunshot entering below Tran's left arm
1:19:19
and exiting his left shoulder. Since no vital organs were penetrated, the lethality
1:19:28
of the wound might be questioned. So he goes on and kind of debates
1:19:34
was this a suicide? Was an intentional homicide? And it would have probably
1:19:43
advanced the narrative if you'd be like, oh, Oswald might have been involved
1:19:46
in this guy's his you know, fellow marine's death, but that's not what
1:19:53
they said at all wrong, Or if he relieved or if this guy Shran
1:19:58
had relieved Oswald from his duty and started you know what I mean, yep,
1:20:05
But no, this guy drops his rifle, shoot himself in the arm
1:20:09
pit, and somehow manages to kill himself. And it's interesting because like you
1:20:16
would think, yeah, and you would think, like, under the suspicious
1:20:21
circumstances, like maybe the Warrant Commission or whoever whatever investigative agency would have like
1:20:30
thrown some shade at Oswald, like Oswald was close, he had an ar
1:20:34
people did try to but not in not in a lot of the early documents,
1:20:42
it seemed to before right Oswalt was arrested in sixty three, right,
1:20:48
So that's really what I pay attention to. Yeah, contemporary to this event
1:20:53
happening. Nobody was Oswald wasn't on anybody's radar, only after the fact that
1:21:00
they looked back and said, well, maybe he had something to do with
1:21:02
this guy killing himself when they were looking, you know, to paint Oswald
1:21:08
like a crazy murderer. Yeah, I mean it's a formal Marine and US
1:21:15
military investigations, so uh and done completed years before the JFKA, So it
1:21:21
would be also a stretch to to have him type of indicated or to try
1:21:31
to indict him in this type of situation years before. Let me see,
1:21:40
the Oswalt Strand relationship having been established, the question remains whether Oswalt was in
1:21:45
fact, quote involved in Schrand's death or maybe the relevant question is how was
1:21:50
he involved? Where was Oswalt and the small band of other Keisler radar trainees
1:21:59
in fact recruited together at Jacksonville for an intelligence assignment given their phony Keysler records
1:22:05
to cover it goes kind of towards that I'm not going to read all of
1:22:11
it because it's like two pages, but It's a very interesting situation. And
1:22:15
you know, Oswald's fellow marine was killed in the line of duty. I
1:22:20
believe they said it was right. Yeah, but quincidently they didn't try to
1:22:28
put it on him. So something something, uh, something else weird happening
1:22:33
in uh Japan, like getting Gonnerrhea in the line of duty. Paula,
1:22:43
there's a martin In a woman. I know William if I remember correctly,
1:22:46
Yes, we ran across William Martin as a defector to the USSR. Excuse
1:22:53
me, at the same time as Oswald. Unfortunately he was a William and
1:22:59
not a Gilliam. We were looking for Jay Martin's, well, just Martin's
1:23:04
alone, we would have we'd still be doing Martin shows. Linda is correcting
1:23:12
me. Albert Schweizer, I said, Sweden, you meant Switzerland. You
1:23:16
are correct, even I don't know what country Albert Switzer College is in,
1:23:23
and nobody except Linda does either. Well, that's what those are, two
1:23:30
easily confused Switzerland and Sweden for American folk like us. I'm neutral on the
1:23:36
subject. That's a joke. You're neutral. I'm Switzerland. Yes. Sally
1:23:45
wants to know did Oswald have a mental breakdown in the Philippines jungle. Yes,
1:23:54
he was captured by natives butt naked. Uh. He was only where
1:24:00
a leaf apparently wrapped with a piece of leather courting around his waist, and
1:24:05
his hair was a mess, and he was chasing monkeys up and up and
1:24:12
down trees trying to catch them. And they gave him back to the Marines
1:24:15
and said, what is wrong with this guy? I don't know, Sally,
1:24:17
I have no idea. I've never heard about that having a mental breakdown
1:24:24
in the jungle. He may have just been having a moment, you know,
1:24:28
as one might, far far far away from home and a stranger and
1:24:32
a stranger land type thing, humid jungle. Yeah, and he's like,
1:24:36
I just want to go home, you know where, who knows? But
1:24:43
you know, Sally, to follow up on your point, did you guys
1:24:46
know that Oswalt actually shot himself, Grace or you talked about this in the
1:24:51
Elbow in the Philippines as well. So there were two shooting incidents, the
1:24:57
Schrand one I forgot we covered already and the Oswald's shooting himself. Won.
1:25:02
I mean, this guy just get in trouble, Sally. Don't cheating on
1:25:09
us. We see you, we see you, we see buncle covering for
1:25:14
you too. Okay, it's okay. As long as it's not that show,
1:25:24
it's all good. Yeah. Shotgun selfie's are in chores? Were feeling
1:25:29
it? Yes? Yes, not a good idea for a shotgun selfie or
1:25:40
being all sweaty palmed in the middle of the night flipping your gun around like
1:25:44
you're the lone Ranger or John Wayne or something and dunking yourself off the middle
1:25:50
of the night. Oh, speaking of this, John Wayne visited the troops
1:25:59
in Japan. Yeahs, that's so funny. You mentioned that I came across
1:26:12
that today. Oh interesting, Jacob leons Yeah, and uh so Rob really
1:26:28
quickly. So wait did I talk about I talked about a little bit of
1:26:32
my military school thing, right. Did I tell you like a friend of
1:26:36
mine had just passed away. Did I say this story before the show?
1:26:42
Yes, not during before. Okay, it's all it's all a blur,
1:26:45
as you know. Uh So, I had a friend of I went to
1:26:50
military academy in high school, and I was kind of like Oswald. I
1:26:56
was nonconformist. I refuse to get rank. If you want to be an
1:27:00
officer or NCO you have to go like three weeks early in the summer,
1:27:05
and it was just stupid. So I was like a rebel, very similar
1:27:11
to Oswald. Just kind of why I connected to this situation. But so
1:27:23
a friend of mine that was in the year before me had just passed away
1:27:28
this week and it was on Facebook. And it's sad because he was like
1:27:31
thirty seven or eight, and I was trying to think of him and like
1:27:38
our experiences or connections, and I couldn't recall like a an event or a
1:27:46
conversation right, Like it was just like, I know he was a good
1:27:49
guy. I never had an issue, blah blah blah, right, very
1:27:54
similar to what a lot of the Marines said about Oswald. And it it's
1:28:00
just I think it's a fairly common thing for acquaintances and conversations with acquaintances,
1:28:13
you know, not necessarily, you know, you might remember, like if
1:28:15
they're one of your best friends or something, what you talk about. But
1:28:18
even even when I try to look back now and think about conversations I had
1:28:24
with my best friend growing up, I can't. I couldn't tell you one.
1:28:30
You know, there's just there's things that you know you had them,
1:28:31
you know you talked all the time, but to specifically remember a conversation is
1:28:38
very hard to do. Yeah, yeah, and for sure, Rob.
1:28:44
And if someone would like bring up a certain thing, like an event that
1:28:46
you guys did together, or you know, screwery or a joke you remember,
1:28:53
it be like, oh yeah, it might jar some memories. And
1:28:55
I feel like it's very similar to what's happening here with Oswalt's Marine buddies.
1:29:00
And granted, I graduated from high school exactly twenty years twenty years ago,
1:29:06
so and I'm trying to think of like specific interactions I had with this guy,
1:29:12
and I couldn't and he wasn't in my squad, right, that's the
1:29:16
people I knew the best, right, squad a few people, five six
1:29:19
people. You live next to them, you live with one of them.
1:29:23
You're a squad leader and an assistants squad leader. Then he had a platoon
1:29:27
leader. He knew them a little more. But then when you got to
1:29:30
the company, you didn't know them as well as people you knew in their
1:29:32
platoon. Was this an all boys school, Joe? It was Hey,
1:29:38
Linda, Hey, Linda, is Joe setting off your gaydar to ask you
1:29:45
for a friend, Uh, thank you. Hey, this was like this
1:29:50
was back like pre hazing days. So like you in military school, you
1:29:55
have to like shower with people like those circle things, and it's like like,
1:30:05
like, please describe that more intensely for Joe, describe a big like
1:30:14
circle thing in the middle of the floor and like six heads coming out in
1:30:16
all different directions. The six guys in a circle, all facing each other,
1:30:21
four heads, six heads each other. Yeah, four of those.
1:30:28
And I used to like wake up early to shower because no one will wake
1:30:31
up before like six am, just to like not deal with it like the
1:30:36
rush. But that's how it was. And I'm just making the comparison to
1:30:44
some of Oswalt's marine buddies, and they might remember something or here might hearsay
1:30:48
or like we talked about the the incident with the male officer being upset that
1:30:57
he got all this Russian and from when when you look at the documents and
1:31:02
the statements, no one really cared, right, I don't care. I
1:31:08
was like, yeah, I kind of briefly remember like he was reading or
1:31:12
talking Russian. Yeah it's consistent, and yeah, sorry if that's TMI,
1:31:20
but I'm just waiting. My military school experience in terms of thank you for
1:31:26
your escapades, your high school esticapades. It was not voluntary. Let's just
1:31:32
say that it was mandatory. I was a troublemakers. What happened if you
1:31:38
didn't shower with six other young naked boys? Oh? Bro, I was
1:31:43
sent there when I was fourteen. I don't know that's better, but uh,
1:31:47
fourteen to eighteen, man, I got my head shaved. I was
1:31:51
fucking I went through a basic training it's called the Plea system. And little
1:31:59
tidbit. Someone, because I don't think I'll ever hear this, someone was
1:32:04
my next door neighbor who everyone would know here he is in the NFL Hall
1:32:11
of Fame. Okay, he was my next door neighbor and Bravo company at
1:32:15
Valley Forge Military Academy. And he came to my room one day. His
1:32:19
name is Larry Fitzgerald, the legendary receiver. He came my room one day
1:32:25
and he goes Brelly. Let's everyone called each other by their last names.
1:32:30
Give me a porn CD. I'm like, yo fit because we just had
1:32:34
desktops, right, and you're in military school. They used to check your
1:32:39
computers. This is why I say this at the end, of the show.
1:32:44
So people will come in and look at your history and stuff. You
1:32:46
have to delete it. So you had it on CDs, be like,
1:32:48
yo, let me get a CD. I'm like yo, I said,
1:32:51
yo. Fits. When you called him Fits, I was like, you're
1:32:55
never going to give it back. Get the hell out of ear, Like,
1:32:57
get out of my face. You know. I was like two or
1:32:59
three years in so I had like seen a lot of these, Like he's
1:33:02
like, please, please, please one in the NFL, and we're like,
1:33:06
Fits, you suck, You're injured, not going to the NFL.
1:33:10
He's a Hall of Famer. But what you for a porn CD? A
1:33:15
CD with porn on it? Okay, you never give it back. That
1:33:23
was just my little military school tidbit. A Hall of fame football player asked
1:33:28
me for a porn CD, because that's you're eighteen in military school. People
1:33:33
check your computers. You got to keep it on CDs. You never give
1:33:38
it back. So if I ever see him again, I'm gonna be like,
1:33:40
you owe me bud inflation. Hey Trey, I like to pick a
1:33:45
ruby with Tennessee or Annie Ford. Uh, you mean this one? That's
1:33:55
a joke. We got to really look on to James, Joe's got Maggie's
1:34:04
drawers in military school. Yeah, only the holes in his drawers were from
1:34:11
other things other than what are you Daniel Powers now accusing Lee? I'm just
1:34:20
saying, you know, it's okay. Isn't that interesting? The guy that
1:34:25
I think spent the most time with him was like, yo, he's gay
1:34:28
or he was feminine? Well, I think uh. I think Linda brought
1:34:33
it up before about Dean Andrews described in the same way. You know,
1:34:39
yeah, he brought someone into his office. It was Andrew's office with him,
1:34:44
right, a Mexican or something like that. Maybe that's why he's such
1:34:48
an angry young man. But yeah, we like to joke. Sorry for
1:34:54
my tangent on military school. My point was just that, like it's hard
1:35:00
to remember certain things so many years later, and it's if you're in a
1:35:10
company with hundred people, you might have known, someone might have heard rumor,
1:35:15
but can you really add a context. I don't know, Joey people
1:35:19
to fix that's great. I don't know what part of my thing was comy,
1:35:29
but I think it was the shower part. Is that give me a
1:35:35
shower? I know? But like that's some stuff in Russia to save water
1:35:41
or something. It's just like my It was not like my choice. I
1:35:45
almost said it was my choice. You know. It's just like what things
1:35:48
were in military school like twenty plus years ago. You know, twenty five
1:35:54
years ago. What are you gonna do? I know, what can you
1:35:58
do? You? You should have seen uh middle school in the eighties.
1:36:01
Bro, We're definitely getting flagged for this one. Hey, but at least
1:36:11
we had like they made a shower altogether, but at least we weren't in
1:36:16
a circle. We were up on the wall, was a fairly decent distance
1:36:23
in between each other. That's like a jail shower, Joe, Yeah,
1:36:31
it wasn't. I mean, military school wasn't far from jail from You definitely
1:36:38
got the jail shower. Yeah, that's for sure. When I got dropped
1:36:43
off and I was like, oh, shoot, this is real, it
1:36:45
was not not a fun realization. Okay, but do you have anything else?
1:36:55
Rob? I donut. Okay, Well, how about let's tease next
1:37:02
week, sir? We tease all right, Okay, I will set you
1:37:12
up, sir. We have a very special guest friend of the show for
1:37:16
a long time for episode number two nine. Next week, ladies and gents,
1:37:23
and that is mister Carmine Sabastano, the two Princes, Enna King.
1:37:30
It's gonna be fun. He's always a pleasure to talk to. He beats
1:37:32
up to update him on what we're going. And then after that number three
1:37:40
hundred, Rob's great milestone and we have some exciting plans for that too.
1:37:50
Do we at their secret like you do? Secret stuff towards me to me
1:37:57
like the intro? Yeah, three vollman, my planning? Are you throwing
1:38:03
me at surprise party? Joe? Stop it? Oh sucks all right?
1:38:13
For people in the chat, check out the links below for hot Sauce,
1:38:17
Lancer tickets, t shirts, hats and mother merch and the locals community.
1:38:26
That's right. What else do you need in life? Not much, not
1:38:30
much, especially if you're setting off my gay arms show. Anyway, that's
1:38:38
it for us, people, Thanks for hanging out with us, and we
1:38:40
will see you again next week for another exciting edition of the Loon Gunman podcast.
1:38:51
Peace peace, peace, peace, everybody get it out of their system.
1:39:02
Hello, Kitty, Hi, what do you want? What do you
1:39:10
want? You? Joe? Now, I do a great, I do
1:39:20
a great, You do a great? Kitty? Oh my god. Oh
1:39:27
you know they oh, it sounded almost real. All right, stop at
1:39:31
your exciting the ladies out here, all right people, peace life, yeah, peace,