Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / African Imams & Racism at Mosque (Ft Mohammed Ali)

Transcript

African Imams & Racism at Mosque (Ft Mohammed Ali) · After Maghrib 🌙

• 0:00
  Smellorama raheem,assalam o alaikum and welcome back to
• 0:03
  another episode on the aftermarket podcast.
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  Where today we are going to try to understand if our communities
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  are racist. Did any of our, holy prophet
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  saw, holy imams have any African descent in them as well as is
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  your parents racist when it comes to the time of marriage.
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  As always before we begin, today's conversation, I'm joined
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  by my co-host. You know who needs?
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  No introduction. Well, I'm not so Ali.
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  Khan salaam alaikum, how you doing?
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  I'm good, I'm good. Nice to see you again.
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  Nice to be back as well. How it, why is my wife one more
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  week is being great? Hamdulillah.
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  Yeah, I said one line or last week, we spoke about how much
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  they want more time. Say no lie and brothers and
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  sisters, great to have you back as well.
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  If you're new to the channel, if this is your first time here, I
• 0:49
  promise you, it's worth the ride and Charlotte the journey that
• 0:52
  were on together. So click subscribe now.
• 0:55
  Right now, hit that notification Bell.
• 0:57
  So every time we upload every Thursday in sha Allah, you're
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  the first to hear about it and she'll be the first to see the
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  said you said we're discussing something very interesting
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  today. Yes.
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  Racism racism and doing that well joining us rather for that
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  conversation is a good friend. Mohamed Ali Salina come Salam
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  Salam. How you doing brother?
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  Hello good man. Pleasure to be here.
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  Likewise nice to have you on the show?
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  Yeah. Have you been shooting in?
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  Have you seen your man? I've been watching some of your
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  like me. ABI earlier podcasts.
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  Yeah, I watched the recent one with the Chef Ramsay, very good,
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  very informative. And yeah you guys have been
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  keeping it. Keeping a good informal, like
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  good for us to, you know, to be able to connect soil Handler.
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  Hums I'm going very well. So said, you asked the question
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  your which I'm going to ask you first.
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  This means is your community, or I are communities that you're
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  part of racist, my communities, that I'm apart of may, Allah
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  bless them all. So I'll start with that.
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  That's our they racist, I don't know now, no definitely, no, I
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  don't believe that's back in the day growing up.
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  I think they were and for me I think I so see this during
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  modulus time, you know, being a rocky.
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  Everyone was Rocky from the attendees to the organizers, to
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  who was invited to sit on the member and recite the eulogies,
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  everyone was a rocky but alhamdulillah things are
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  changing and we're seeing a big, big difference, Muhammad Ali.
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  We're we're from the same Community, same Community.
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  Yeah, and we're both from with both gorgeous.
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  Has from different parts of the world.
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  So I mostly South Asian and I don't really have African
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  Heritage. Yeah.
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  So obviously I've got a mixed Somali and Indian Heritage is,
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  obviously a bit more complicated than them, but, you know, we can
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  address that. But yeah, it's been like, it's
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  been interesting, obviously growing up like, in our
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  community. I felt very part of community,
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  of course, and I still was like identify myself as a hoarder But
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  that have been instances. Of course, where you know, I've
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  be I felt that, you know, I'm a little different, right?
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  So like I've got some people that I'm close to, for example,
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  maybe a little bit more darker than me, their experiences in
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  the community. Sometimes haven't also been that
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  great. Some of them, for example.
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  Now, wouldn't really come to Moscow that often or, you know,
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  that kind of thing. But, you know, all in all Like
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  now I would say I don't really experience that kind of thing
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  now but you know growing up you know maybe a few glimpses here
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  and them it's interesting because I've what were you, I
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  would. Yeah.
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  Like so it's interesting because we're been born and brought up
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  in the same Center handle and you know like you said, it's a
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  home for us, you know, we love it and there's so much good in
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  the in the center we grew up in the system will but yes there
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  are more showers down. What's up man?
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  But generally speaking, like you said, said, I think we're Like
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  the western shore commute especially in London's, but
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  integrating more often in the English language, you've said in
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  the past is playing a big role because we can Echo that as well
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  in our community. Like when I speak to members of
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  my family, like the stories that they have from back home when
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  they were in communities, maybe in Somalia in East Africa, they
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  experience a lot more. You know, there's a lot of
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  factors involved. Obviously, it's not just color
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  of skin also, like some classist issues.
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  Yeah. And, you know, other problems
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  but you know, now, There are a lot of improvements.
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  Of course, there are things that trickle down to the youth, but I
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  would say it will install now, like, you know, I don't think
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  many people think that way, our, a just grew.
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  So, yeah, I'm Lila, you know, we're moving in the right
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  direction. I think the a good place to
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  start is to understand our our beliefs, okay?
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  And to understand our history. So you mentioned say that the
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  beginning are any of our and BR, or our, I'm modeling with Saddam
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  of African heritage And the reason why we specify African is
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  because, of course, that's the most contentious in terms of
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  ethnicities, which were going to discuss and also, obviously
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  something, which I think a lot of people don't really click
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  with. Like, a lot of people are
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  nervous to admit or even to accept whether or whether or not
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  the imams and having the Salam. What of of African Heritage
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  have? Have you got any insight on
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  that? Any answers?
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  I don't have a particular answer besides you believe, brother
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  Muhammad Ali knows more about this than I do.
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  So I'm going to allow you to ensure lotions.
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  So obviously, we're talking about African.
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  Obviously, African is a whole continent.
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  There's different kinds of people in Africa.
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  Yeah, so yeah. Obviously, there were there's
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  the idea of Berber women, I believe it is that were some of
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  the mothers of the imams. But specifically, when we're
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  coming down to like the ninth Imam, Imam will Jawad.
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  Obviously we find some narrations about him when he was
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  born. Even that a lot of people were
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  looking at him and thinking he's way too.
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  Talk to be even the son of Moldova interesting.
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  And yeah, that's a bring in the like, you know, the genealogist
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  you can say of that time to have a look and they confirm.
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  They were like, yeah, this is definitely the son of my mother,
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  but you can see that even at that time, people had this
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  mindset that, you know, and that's the Imam of the time.
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  Yeah, for them. So yeah, there's that story.
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  You said before, before we started the podcast, what the
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  Imam and highly. Yeah, yeah.
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  So this is actually something I came across that time when there
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  Was that there was a bit of fiasco with shaken or oh, yeah.
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  I don't know if you remember that.
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  But yeah. But yeah, I came across this
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  story of my Matt Hardy and they say, obviously, he would have
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  been a bit more, like, kind of like, you could be, we would
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  describe a mixed-race complexion but would have had African
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  features as well, and the story it goes, it says that he was
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  riding on a horse, a black horse and he was wearing black clothes
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  and a man saw him and he said, like, he thought in his head he
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  said, what is this? Black-on-black upon black and
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  the Imam stops like nearby him and he looks at him and he says
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  your heart is even blacker than what you see well and yeah and
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  that and that tells you as well like when we say mama dried
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  obviously he was dark but we'll set him on hardly the same thing
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  and, you know, moment a scary obviously also African Heritage.
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  So, yeah, coming to the Imam of our time, you know?
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  There's there's a, there's a possibility.
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  Although, you know, there's, there's yeah.
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  Like you said, there's all sorts of like Askew and exactly.
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  But this is what something I want to ask and specifically
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  people are home. Like if a mom with her judge, a
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  lot of thought of your sure, even last night was to be black
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  or of a darker skin tone. Would you have a problem with
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  it? But on a serious level, would
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  you, your family, your parents, your children or siblings,
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  anyone have an issue with it. Because of the answer is, yes,
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  there's a serious problem there, it doesn't matter.
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  In my opinion, whether it's authentic, or not.
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  Yeah, call. It doesn't at all.
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  It's a principle is there. Like if, if you're saying,
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  whether it's a mammal Hardy, Mama jo and absolutely hide his
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  salami, or whether the Imam of our time is of a dark
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  complexion. Why does that make a difference?
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  It doesn't. Yeah, you're right.
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  Absolutely, it's crazy, it's crazy.
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  And you know, like when you ask Elders in the community
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  Sometimes, some of course very accepting.
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  But sometimes there's, I think a lot of nervousness and
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  hesitation to answer that question.
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  I don't know. He's, he has no load on his
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  face. Yeah.
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  How can he be black? Well, how can he be Africa
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  alone? Or for example, you know,
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  something like Can I find that mind-boggling some sources have
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  even said that, but I'm going to draw it.
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  Like, obviously his mother was actually Africa, Nubian.
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  Yeah, and there are some Scholars argued that there's a
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  narration that says he had nor on his face, like his wife, the
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  one that poisoned him unfollow. I believe.
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  And she said, like, I saw him and he had nor on his face and
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  then these some of the, some Scholars have gone.
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  And said, yeah, this this shows, he's not black and it makes you
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  question, it's like, you know, you've got no, but Shawn, you've
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  got a childish. Shocking.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's okay. That's that's levels of
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  childishness that you can only, how, how indoctrinated do we
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  all. Like I said, I'll Scholars have
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  to be to get to a point where they take note as, you know,
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  visual representation of their their color and their features.
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  You know, if I can actually add to.
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  So I was having a conversation the other day with someone who
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  is a river at Saint of African descent himself.
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  And we're talking about this and he asked me a question.
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  He goes. Do you actually believe all the
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  amounts were Arab? That's why I let you answer the
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  question was I don't really know this in full detail as I told
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  them, I've always imagined the imams, for example Zaraki.
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  Yeah, he was at help. Always imagined them African and
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  then that made us like think between each other.
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  So, an Indian will imagine the whole imams and the prophets
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  being Indian on the rhenium will imagine the holy amounts being
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  Iranian for example. So really doesn't matter baby.
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  Yeah. Whoooo you what feature they are
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  What ethnicity? They are.
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  Just who they are maybe, or maybe not, but I think a big
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  thing that contributes to this and a lot of it, we see when we
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  go to Yara is the pictures of the imams that we see, which
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  firstly I don't think they're wrong, The Stylist here, I don't
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  understand it. Like you know even if even if
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  it's filk wise is not a problem and everything, it doesn't make
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  sense because you know you'll you know it's interesting though
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  that we can recognize them. Like you can see like a painting
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  and you're like yeah that's my Miley like you know like that.
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  That's how they draw. I remember someone once just I
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  run by oxen The Rock. Like how do you know this is for
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  example, Imam, Ali, Ali and Salam.
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  And your cuz you're selling this portrait for example or this
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  piece of frame or some people are like a carp.
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  It sort of fabric we can hang on the wall.
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  I was like how do you know full well that you are telling the
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  customer that this is a portrait.
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  Why - you know, he goes, someone told me that the person that I
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  drew, this saw the Imam in a dream.
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  So this is like based on a truth.
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  I really don't know. And the final half.
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  Yeah. But the features of some of some
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  of these pictures. Yeah.
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  Very similar to one another. And also it's very similar to
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  artwork That took place back in the time when these pictures
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  were drawn to, you know, I mean, like specific, like Persian Are
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  Persian, or any sort of means when you sell the eyebrow on a
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  specific way and the eyelashes, you know, the lips.
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  There's a and not just that it's other things like hair and and
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  know of like, there's there's Hadith about our holy prophet,
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  Mohammed, Salah Salem. And for example, if he had any
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  blemishes on his face or any, any any beauty marks, or
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  whatever you want to call them, and some people Say no.
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  No, he was the perfect human being was absolutely Flawless
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  visually in aesthetically but you know it doesn't make sense.
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  It doesn't, it doesn't make sense and it's a false narrative
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  that we're teaching our children.
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  Mmm. Yeah.
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  There's even some paintings with all 12 imams and all of them at
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  the same look. The same is all just the names
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  of the. Yeah, I said you said you said
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  that if you're Indian, for example, you imagine the amount
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  of the Indian personally, I don't personally speaking
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  because because we've grown up in a very Rocky Centric
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  Community, you know. I mean I'm connect her that
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  she's to I'm saying. Absolutely, we've grown up where
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  you guys buy you guys, I mean, the rocky Community have
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  monopolized in some sense, the shitty world the recitation.
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  Yeah, that the Arabic language, the even even the Iraqi
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  influence on English-speaking she our communities.
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  Do you see what I mean? So many ways.
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  We're growing up in a world were thinking we go to the other.
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  We go to the imams, they're there in Iraq, and the most
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  accessible of imams right now are in Iraq.
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  Delilah. She see what I mean?
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  Yeah, it's lovely. And Understand that and can read
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  it very well. But in terms of like dialects,
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  the only dialect I can understand rappy.
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  Why? Because that's the only one I'm
• 13:04
  gonna come across as a shit. Yeah.
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  So yeah. Well, I mean, were exposed to in
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  London? Yeah, in the world we exposed to
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  loads of Lebanese people, for example.
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  Yeah, or different, just different communities by
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  especially asked the being born and brought up in London were
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  exposed to a lot, you know. I mean when did indeed and I
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  think the issues that we have is all like got nothing to do with
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  Islam. Be honest like all this racism
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  and discrimination is not like man Maids truly man-made because
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  Islam really didn't care, for example, what color you were or
• 13:34
  you know what country you actually came from.
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  It's all what only matted, what's your belief with Allah?
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  Subhan, Allah time. I was only difference, so and I
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  think there is a want to misquote the quranic Ayah, but
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  it goes by. I'm going to find their bring up
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  in the conversation as we are pleased.
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  And I think it's very important to add to the conversation.
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  Yeah, I'm going to die. Yeah.
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  No yeah, good man. I think is interesting as well
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  because when we talking about, I know you mentioned earlier about
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  the imams, especially the latter.
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  In Mom's when we talk about the mother of a month, her judge
• 14:06
  alongside Ajay Sharif are we? I know you've done some research
• 14:11
  into it. What is your verdict or opinion?
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  Or maybe analysis on what the current narratives are?
• 14:18
  Right? Yeah, so obviously like we're
• 14:21
  not Scholars here. Yeah.
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  So you know just this is just like thanks for watching.
• 14:25
  Yeah yeah and then there's the princess
• 14:44
  narrative. So yeah, there's like obviously
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  there's a lot of different opinions going around in terms
• 14:51
  of like, authenticity of chains and all this kind of stuff,
• 14:54
  there are some Scholars that Say, you know, the black woman
• 14:57
  is more likely to be true and obviously, on the other hand,
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  there's also other Scholars that say the Roman princess one is
• 15:04
  more likely to be true for different reasons.
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  So yeah, it's all a bit of a mix to be honest.
• 15:10
  So yeah, both of them are possibility.
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  But me personally, like I've lent always more towards the
• 15:15
  Roman princess narrative. The reason for that is because
• 15:20
  you know, there's the scholars that I was listening to the way
• 15:23
  they analyzed it. And Planed.
• 15:25
  It was that a lot of generations with regards to their parents of
• 15:28
  the mother, they may have come about in situations for example,
• 15:32
  where there's a lot of women in the house of my mom hasn't asked
• 15:34
  who he doesn't want the people to know which of these are his
• 15:38
  mother, right? So the appearance, specifically
• 15:40
  saying, his mother looks like this.
• 15:42
  Or he looks like this, it doesn't narrations about the
• 15:45
  appearance of the Imam as well, right.
• 15:47
  You described him as brown, some of them say like reddish which
• 15:51
  is white basically. So yeah, so yeah, the the room
• 15:55
  and This narrative because obviously it talks about the
• 15:57
  details of the marriage, The Scholar that was explaining it
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  should he feels that this is like the strongest way to be
• 16:04
  able to prove. This is actually the mother
• 16:06
  because it's about the marriage to moment.
• 16:08
  I Scurry rather than just his mother looked like this or he
• 16:11
  looks like this. So yeah, there's all of these,
• 16:14
  you know, discussions and you can go around in circles for
• 16:17
  days but yeah, hmm. I'll send a servant and that's
• 16:20
  promise. I had that quranic Ayah.
• 16:22
  So I'm going to mention it's almost with a smile r-rahmani.
• 16:24
  R-rahim Beam in a chromosome. And Allah, he is back home and
• 16:28
  that's from 49:13. And it translates to indeed the
• 16:32
  most noble of you is in the sight of Allah subhanahu
• 16:35
  wa'ta'ala as the one. That's most righteous amongst
• 16:37
  you. Yeah.
• 16:38
  It's like the end of the beginning of the rest is also
• 16:40
  very nice as well as says that we made you tribes and people.
• 16:43
  I believe it's the same one. Yeah.
• 16:44
  But having God you guys integration and like, you know,
• 16:54
  we talked Like our communities like getting to know one
• 16:57
  another. And let me make this clear like
• 16:59
  no one's advocating to lose your cultural heritage, you don't
• 17:02
  need to you shouldn't. Yeah.
• 17:04
  You know say this is Stan email or lengthen his life and protect
• 17:06
  him has said in his advice for the Youth hold on to your mother
• 17:10
  tongue so example. But at the same time we envisage
• 17:14
  and we imagine we say this on the podcast at the time of the
• 17:17
  Holy Imam, when he reappears, he will want us to integrate with
• 17:20
  one another. If I've been going to one Center
• 17:23
  for my entire life, there's a problem.
• 17:25
  Mm, especially when I live in London where there's over 30
• 17:27
  centers or in the UK with his over 80 centers Music Centers.
• 17:30
  There's a problem there. And if I'm, if I'm purely going
• 17:33
  to my Center not because of the language, they speak because in
• 17:36
  my Center is beginningless, but if I'm going just because the
• 17:38
  people, I know what I'm comfortable with a ritualistic
• 17:40
  approach to it, religion all that, all the way we do things.
• 17:43
  And so then there's an issue with my certainty of belief, if
• 17:47
  I'm not visiting, another Center based on culture and religion.
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  Do you know what I mean? So, I think there's a big part
• 17:53
  to play that. Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:54
  I think. You know, in terms of the love
• 17:57
  for our Imam, that's definitely, something that can unite us, and
• 17:59
  we've seen it happened as manifestations of it.
• 18:01
  We have obviously, all the centers are open now.
• 18:04
  I like barber shops, obtain how to California.
• 18:08
  Yeah, one of these like, you know, Spike by Youth, Of course,
• 18:11
  as Arab touch to it and happy touch.
• 18:13
  But, you know, there's been everyone from like different
• 18:16
  communities are going there. You've got Salon Farm under
• 18:19
  which Transit like transcended like Salon every language you've
• 18:22
  got, you got Arabic English. Ali or do like kashmiri
• 18:45
  from different, ethnic and cultural origin origin and also
• 18:52
  reverts from different backgrounds, you know, and
• 18:55
  People who was suddenly, it became PR people who normally
• 18:58
  became chair. So, you know, I've been there a
• 19:00
  number of times mainly because I recite, I haven't like, forgive
• 19:04
  me. Yeah, I'm see if you're
• 19:05
  listening only thing because I'm reciting but subhanallah,
• 19:08
  whenever I've been there, I've always felt welcome and I just
• 19:11
  met anyone that comes with me, you know, that they don't care,
• 19:14
  you know, what language you speak or how you look or you
• 19:17
  want something. You go to the always making sure
• 19:20
  you feel. Welcome back.
• 19:21
  And that's amazing. Yeah, I only recently just went
• 19:23
  on more than ever. We need you.
• 19:25
  Brilliant. That that's like the main event
• 19:26
  of the year, like, you need to be there for that amazing
• 19:29
  beautiful. Make sure it comes laughs.
• 19:31
  You sure how you up, son Rush advisors Instagram stories last
• 19:35
  year? And this year in Charlotte, try
• 19:36
  to attend this year but, you know, we talked about reverse
• 19:39
  now. Okay, reverts is something I
• 19:41
  want to bring up especially in the conversation of marriage.
• 19:46
  Okay. Hmm, Where Do We Begin?
• 19:49
  Like I said, it has no end. I don't think as end and I look
• 19:54
  big. Rocky for someone murmuring just
• 19:57
  outside of, let's say your city. Well, there's like a barrier.
• 20:02
  So you've crossed the red line. Yeah.
• 20:04
  And you've stepped out our the moment.
• 20:06
  I'd know, one woman being it. So he's not from us, you'll
• 20:09
  never be from us, you know, that's how deep they see us, but
• 20:12
  when it comes to someone from a different race, I can only
• 20:13
  imagine the troubles people have trying to find a spouse with
• 20:17
  their parents agree into. Hmm, I personally don't know
• 20:20
  anyone that's had this trouble only know when they're trying to
• 20:23
  marry outside their own City in Iraq.
• 20:24
  So I do No, I can only imagine being outside the country's
• 20:28
  Parliament, I don't know if you've had an experience.
• 20:31
  No. I mean to be honest, I think
• 20:32
  there's a few levels to okay. Firstly, if if you are a river
• 20:37
  yeah, of Asian or our background.
• 20:39
  Okay, more likely to find a spouse which is, which is a
• 20:42
  messed-up situation if I have friends who are Pakistani
• 20:46
  suddenly became shh and easily got married.
• 20:49
  For example to people who are of South Asian Heritage and see our
• 20:53
  families or even Arabs. She just, you know, I mean, but
• 20:56
  if you're a river and you're from a white background, or back
• 20:59
  black background or Oriental, or whatever you want to call it,
• 21:02
  or, you know, there's an issue there because sometimes families
• 21:06
  will reject it. You know why?
• 21:07
  If I wanted to hypothetically, if I wanted a friend of mine,
• 21:11
  who is a river to marry a showgirl?
• 21:15
  Yes. A and he's being rejected.
• 21:17
  Purely based on his cultural and ethnic background.
• 21:20
  There's an issue there. Do you see what I mean?
• 21:22
  But I think it's a, it's a hard one.
• 21:24
  Do like, During obviously with cultural like comes language as
• 21:28
  well, right? So like, for example, would are
• 21:31
  some people that are first-generation here, right?
• 21:33
  They've brought them like their mindsets, like, from back home.
• 21:37
  Yeah, they want, they want their daughter-in-law, for example, to
• 21:40
  be able to communicate with them completely.
• 21:41
  They might not even speak English.
• 21:43
  Well, right? And I feel like that cultural
• 21:45
  barrier like plays A Part as well, right?
• 21:48
  Of course there's, you know, the skin color thing, you know,
• 21:51
  sometimes it's just know he's black, like you can't, you know,
• 21:54
  but There's also other aspects of this was, you know, any idea?
• 22:00
  Because I can only imagine them being born racist, as in, you
• 22:04
  know, I don't think anyone's born racist, man, I feel like
• 22:07
  it's inherited like it's almost like, you know, kids don't kids.
• 22:10
  Don't hate anyone, okay? Kids get taught to hate right
• 22:13
  condition of society. Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:15
  So yeah, I think it's a difficult one to break though
• 22:18
  because obviously you can't really pinpoint necessarily
• 22:22
  where it's purely racist. Is Because of skin color.
• 22:26
  I do have the thighs duty to a degree.
• 22:28
  So for example if you're a mother or father and you'll born
• 22:31
  in the 50s or 60s, for example, how many of our printers
• 22:33
  probably are, and you have been born and brought up in a less an
• 22:38
  Asian Community, more an Asian country, Arab country, you move
• 22:41
  to the UK, your community Heroes of the same ethnic background.
• 22:44
  You grow up. You've seen all your friends
• 22:46
  marry their children, to be. Move on the same Center of that
• 22:48
  from. And then your son or daughter
• 22:50
  says, I want to marry someone is black or white or Far East
• 22:53
  Asian, or South American. You're thinking why me like why
• 22:57
  is this happening to my kids? You know, so immediately there's
• 23:01
  like an inferiority complex that the parents might feel because
• 23:03
  they think my child is going through something.
• 23:05
  Why am I the one who's Afflicted up with his task?
• 23:08
  You know I'm saying? And then that's just outside of
• 23:10
  the you know we're not even talking about the religious
• 23:14
  element of it which is talking about the culture and ethnic and
• 23:16
  do you know what I mean? People question for example, and
• 23:19
  it's a rightful question to have is someone converting because
• 23:23
  they want to marry a girl or guy.
• 23:25
  Know what I mean? That's, that's a very valid
• 23:27
  question, of course, but one shouldn't assume that's why
• 23:29
  they're doing, but it's obviously a very real issue.
• 23:32
  Do you know what I mean? Definitely.
• 23:34
  So, all in, all I think, when we're talking about reverts, we
• 23:37
  have to be realistic. And I just want to know from a
• 23:40
  personal level. I want to say, God bless all the
• 23:43
  parents out there who have reluctantly, but then accepted
• 23:47
  their son or daughter to marry someone from outside their
• 23:49
  culture. Because you've done something
• 23:52
  that so many others couldn't do. And you've done something that
• 23:54
  many of your friends We haven't had the courage to do and that
• 23:57
  you've looked at a potential daughter or son-in-law and
• 24:00
  you've given them your trust. And you've said that this person
• 24:03
  I trust to be the father or the mother of my grandchildren.
• 24:05
  I think that's a very Noble thing.
• 24:06
  Yeah, absolutely. It's even in line with like, you
• 24:08
  know, the prophetic tradition like the prophet.
• 24:11
  I believe I don't I don't want to like mess up the Hadith but
• 24:13
  paraphrasing. He says that if someone comes to
• 24:15
  you speaking to the fathers of daughters, someone comes to you.
• 24:18
  He's got good a clock. And you know, I believe it's
• 24:21
  good religion. He says then marry him to your
• 24:23
  daughter. And if you do not, then you're
• 24:24
  going to Cause Discord and yes you're going to cause like
• 24:27
  fitting out and on the Earth but the correct had huge you doing
• 24:31
  power through its. That's the yeah, yeah.
• 24:34
  Well, you know, I just wanted to be careful but yeah, like
• 24:36
  causing fifth not on the earth. Like that's a huge statement, a
• 24:40
  huge statement. Absolutely.
• 24:41
  And yeah, I don't think people think of it that way, you know,
• 24:44
  when we like in our communities, obviously, elders and stuff,
• 24:47
  they have other conditions in their mind and, you know, it's
• 24:50
  good to have conditions. Like in terms of like, you know,
• 24:53
  maybe Financial things, you're worried about your daughter.
• 24:55
  Door, you're worried about your weather, getting married and
• 24:59
  stuff, and the cultural differences.
• 25:02
  But at the end of the day, the prophets, giving you two
• 25:05
  conditions, the prophet said, good o'clock, the good Dean.
• 25:08
  Yeah, and those things are encompassing Dean is everything.
• 25:12
  All right? It's your whole is the whole
• 25:13
  life forward a way of life and if he's giving you those two
• 25:16
  conditions, those are the two that should be the most
• 25:18
  important to you. So yeah like definitely I mean
• 25:22
  this the spouses they do want They don't have a problem, the
• 25:26
  problem is with the parents, so I don't know if there's a parent
• 25:29
  out there and, you know, maybe your kids want to get married to
• 25:32
  someone from a different race, you know, it said it, I know
• 25:35
  this is, this is maybe a bit touchy or sensitive to say, but
• 25:38
  maybe some of our generation, probably a lot.
• 25:41
  I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'd say a majority of
• 25:43
  Our Generation would be comfortable.
• 25:45
  If there are chords are tomorrow in Iraq, if then a rocket my
• 25:48
  Pakistani, if they're excited to marry Lebanese but and there's a
• 25:50
  little bit happened. Yeah, of course mashallah.
• 25:52
  We just had some good news before the podcast about A
• 25:55
  friend of ours is made outside his community, but the minute
• 25:58
  you asked about whether someone who's Asian or Arab would marry
• 26:03
  someone who's not Asian allowed like a European or someone who's
• 26:07
  like we said, Far, East Asian or black or whatever.
• 26:10
  They're like I don't know. Like, you know what I mean?
• 26:12
  Sensitivities are rise. And to be honest, if you're
• 26:15
  listening and you have that inside, you think about, I mean,
• 26:17
  don't I'm not criticizing you because I think innately we've
• 26:20
  all been, like I said, condition to have a level of racism in us,
• 26:23
  but think about why Is the case, definitely, mean there's dip.
• 26:27
  I mean, I'll be honest, I've admired outside my culture.
• 26:30
  I married someone from a different country and a
• 26:33
  different ethnicity completely different culture of.
• 26:35
  Yeah, handle, I works, you know, and you have to go through like
• 26:40
  the Journey of work or not, just culture, different language,
• 26:43
  different race, different language, different race,
• 26:45
  different country, even accent. Everything Abdullah has been a
• 26:49
  journey, but you learn, it's beautiful.
• 26:51
  You know, before I came here I was practicing my Arabic with my
• 26:53
  wife. So I told her About my day from.
• 26:56
  When I woke up to when I came home and I told him I only heard
• 26:58
  of it. Yeah.
• 26:59
  So she's like Smash and she would do the same with me and
• 27:08
  Order and although more does not great at all starts but that's
• 27:11
  one of the beautiful things you find an interracial marriage and
• 27:16
  yeah I wish we see more of it. You know I'm gonna it's a weird
• 27:21
  thought of had a long time ago, not just about race.
• 27:24
  I've always Thought about, for example, just from a different
• 27:26
  culture with the merger for examine all with a high-ranking
• 27:32
  scholar, someone who we really look up to allow their son or
• 27:36
  daughter to marry outside. If they do will change the
• 27:39
  masses, I think. Yeah, that's a starting point.
• 27:42
  I think, I think you're right. I think a lot of these kind of
• 27:45
  ideas, they do trickle from up down, run.
• 27:47
  We look up to them. Absolutely, absolutely.
• 27:49
  But even with like, you know, with squatters and with Mariah,
• 27:52
  you'll find that, for example, a chef Oceanography.
• 27:55
  He's Pakistani what his followers.
• 27:57
  Mostly Pakistan, young Chef is half IL I've Done Yet.
• 28:01
  Who almost of his followers Afghan, right?
• 28:05
  And generally speaking the, you know, the top Maria, or the ones
• 28:09
  that are the most followed, what are they?
• 28:11
  Usually, they're going to be either Iranian or they're going
• 28:14
  to be unhappy. So, you know, even with the
• 28:17
  scholars that we follow. Yeah.
• 28:18
  You can see that. That aspect of, you know,
• 28:21
  there's a bitter division, right?
• 28:22
  You want to follow the guy that he's from like, where you at?
• 28:25
  That's why I said when I said that there's an element of
• 28:27
  dominance or monopolization not in a bad way.
• 28:30
  Exactly. You've got the Hauser.
• 28:31
  For example, you've got an email, a Muslim in Iraq and
• 28:34
  Iran, let's say, for example, me so there's an element like this.
• 28:38
  The religion becomes branded by a culture ethnicity and you
• 28:41
  can't detach from it. And it knows thing is bad thing,
• 28:43
  but I'm saying that like, Chef machines Shake as hard.
• 28:46
  Yeah. They are both exceptions.
• 28:48
  Yeah, you know I'm saying. Absolutely.
• 28:50
  So it's incredible and martial law.
• 28:51
  We have so many so many high-ranking scholars.
• 28:54
  Shh. Shall I bring him Zeki?
• 28:56
  For example, and in the UK of course, we have Chef canora
• 28:58
  Muhammad. You know, I sure like so many
• 29:03
  and I know a lot of these Scholars, to be honest.
• 29:05
  I spoke to a black scholar recently and an amazing
• 29:10
  mashallah friend of a debate TV, and he told me, he said, in in
• 29:15
  our culture and our community, we struggled to get our children
• 29:17
  married. He says simple as not because we
• 29:20
  are struggling to find for example, black shears.
• 29:23
  Yeah. Because it's struggling to find.
• 29:25
  Anyone who'd want to marry our children or black and why is
• 29:27
  that a problem? Like you've have the daughter or
• 29:29
  the son of a ship? Marshall mother were brought up
• 29:32
  well educated. They've engaged in the
• 29:35
  community. They've got diversity.
• 29:36
  Speak multiple languages. Why would you not want to marry
• 29:38
  your children to someone like that?
• 29:41
  I've got continually, I've got a question for ya.
• 29:44
  Would you let your son or daughter?
• 29:45
  Marry someone else? It's easy to say?
• 29:48
  Yeah, I know but I'm I'm I hope that if I feel like this now my
• 29:51
  son is very young and I hope I'll be I'll be even more.
• 29:55
  Or open when the time comes because I might say, yes now and
• 29:58
  maybe inside, there's a creeping hesitancy to see what I mean by
• 30:02
  hope and short low. When the time comes Charlotte my
• 30:03
  son gets married to a beautiful girl and a beautiful at heart
• 30:07
  and wherever she's from in the world.
• 30:10
  But like you said, I'm entirely. Good luck luck and good Iman.
• 30:14
  Absolutely. Like, that's got to be a
• 30:15
  priority. So that's me.
• 30:18
  What about you said? You have two young daughters.
• 30:20
  I have two young daughters. I've never really thought that I
• 30:23
  just thought of on the spot here.
• 30:25
  That's like you. I don't, I don't think I would
• 30:27
  ever want to be in a position where I put race over.
• 30:30
  Religion Charles, I don't, I'll be honest say that.
• 30:33
  It is scary. I'll be honest, because my son
• 30:36
  is half-arab, okay? Okay.
• 30:39
  And if he was to marry an Arab girl, Mmm.
• 30:41
  Yeah, my children are pretty much majority Arab.
• 30:45
  So then I'm thinking, like, I have generations and ancestors
• 30:49
  from the same cultural background, God gone.
• 30:53
  And now my lineage is Arab. Is that something bad?
• 30:57
  Is it something good? It's a weird concept to digest,
• 31:00
  mmm, you see what I mean? Yeah, no, definitely.
• 31:02
  I think, I think that's a big thing as well.
• 31:04
  Like I would obviously think about it.
• 31:06
  Obviously, I'm from a mixed background.
• 31:07
  We can mix it more. It's alright.
• 31:09
  But at the same time, there is that aspect of, you know, like
• 31:12
  lineage right and you know, in our family and our communities
• 31:15
  as well. Like we have a, like we put a
• 31:19
  lot of importance on it. Like, we know where we come
• 31:21
  from, like we have our history, we even have the new book
• 31:24
  recently. By the about the Hydra history
• 31:26
  and stuff. And yeah, like we put a lot of
• 31:28
  importance on it to lose all of your, like, kind of like
• 31:31
  culture. It doesn't sit.
• 31:34
  Well, it doesn't sit well. Like, even me like, for example,
• 31:37
  I would want my children, for example, to speak catchy, right?
• 31:40
  I want them to be chi chi. I want them to understand
• 31:42
  Swahili, I want them to have a little bit of knowledge about
• 31:45
  Somalia, at least so that they're not losing any parts of
• 31:48
  the culture. I want you to have what I got.
• 31:50
  Yeah. Right.
• 31:51
  And yeah, I feel like that's a blessing like for me like I was
• 31:54
  growing up around like Multiple languages.
• 31:56
  Like I'm hearing them all and with languages, you feel all
• 32:00
  different types of culture and that it's a blessing because you
• 32:03
  can go anywhere and you can relate, you can understand
• 32:05
  people more, right? And I would want that for my
• 32:08
  children as well. So yeah.
• 32:10
  Like maybe by you know getting him to marry someone like
• 32:14
  outside of our community. You know you're adding a
• 32:16
  language to the list so you can be a beautiful thing.
• 32:18
  Yeah and that our mom's name was adopted.
• 32:20
  It was my mom's you like absolutely you know like the if
• 32:24
  you talked about a moment My mom'll Jawad, for example, some
• 32:27
  Ahmedabad knew that his great-grandparents were perhaps
• 32:30
  entirely Arab, so hey, and he himself is perhaps in a majority
• 32:36
  East African or Nubian. You'd said for example like so
• 32:39
  if they imams did it was you know there's certain that the
• 32:42
  tone for us. Mmm, definitely.
• 32:45
  Yes. I mean, the other thing is,
• 32:46
  there's obviously a lot of people come to our centers who
• 32:49
  are not from our cultural ethnic background.
• 32:53
  Okay, what can we do? How do we Make people who are,
• 32:56
  you know, who are not from the center, maybe feel more,
• 32:59
  welcome. Yeah.
• 33:00
  Like, I think this goes back to sign are saying earlier, on as
• 33:03
  well, like, some people that I'm close to a bit darker skin, or
• 33:06
  whatever. Like, when they come in, they
• 33:09
  the thing is, when you look different yourself, and, you
• 33:11
  know, you look different, you'll notice when people are treating
• 33:15
  you differently, or when people are looking at you in a funny
• 33:17
  way or giving you attention, like, you're different to the
• 33:21
  rest of the people there. And yeah, I feel like that is it
• 33:25
  Something that a lot of people that are different in their
• 33:28
  appearance can Echo even myself. Like I have experienced that a
• 33:32
  few times. I have felt like he's looking
• 33:34
  at. Be a me, a bit funny.
• 33:36
  Like, obviously, when I grab my hair, I look more predominantly
• 33:39
  African. You can see like, you know, I've
• 33:40
  got African hair and stuff so you know people noticed you and
• 33:43
  they treat you like maybe a little bit differently.
• 33:47
  Maybe ask you questions. Like, I've got that a lot of
• 33:49
  times actually. Obviously when I say I'm Somali
• 33:52
  mixed Somalian, Indian people straight away.
• 33:55
  You River like my family's been here for six Generations, bro?
• 33:59
  Like you know is yeah and to make people feel different.
• 34:03
  I feel like that you know, it might push them away a little
• 34:06
  especially if they're fresh River.
• 34:08
  If they're fresh River and I coming into into the mosques and
• 34:11
  you know that people giving them funny looks that might make them
• 34:14
  feel some kind of way. Well you're very right Muhammad
• 34:16
  Ali and something to add to what you're saying.
• 34:18
  Now is that, you know, when reverts or shall we say when
• 34:21
  someone who from a different ethnicity comes to your own
• 34:24
  Center lat See your Rocky and you see someone with African
• 34:26
  Heritage coming to your Center. Don't stare at them.
• 34:29
  I've seen it happen so much times where everyone just
• 34:31
  staring or pointing at them. You know, I actually have a
• 34:34
  story to share. I actually met a brother, why
• 34:37
  not for many many years at the Muslim convention and Birmingham
• 34:40
  the other day and he gave me a story of when he went to a
• 34:44
  center and Muharram. Now listen to this because
• 34:47
  everyone was looking at me, they know who I am, I am XYZ, I'm
• 34:51
  going to bring up his name, maybe that's why me to share his
• 34:52
  name on the podcast and just like they already know.
• 34:55
  For many years because they see me, always attend Ramadan.
• 34:57
  This we always attended Muharram but that was one time where I
• 35:01
  came day after day in Muharram because I wanted to be part of
• 35:04
  the majority because even though I don't understand the language,
• 35:08
  they are reciting the most listened because I would sit
• 35:10
  there and then I'll see him. Look at me him, look at me, him,
• 35:14
  look at me, one by one, the old looking goes, one day, I sat
• 35:17
  down the mawlana himself said something, the entire Crown
• 35:20
  looked at me because I didn't know what to do.
• 35:23
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. For them, they think they're
• 35:26
  doing a good thing by saying, look at him, martial law.
• 35:29
  But he feels very like, why am I different to you?
• 35:33
  Yeah. It's what isolate.
• 35:34
  If we, if Allah is uniting us. Why you difficult making
• 35:37
  difference between us? And he wants to be part of this
• 35:41
  Faith, you making him stand. Why are we so, you know, know in
• 35:44
  21st century Western Society, where so big on discrimination
• 35:48
  rules and policies in our workplace, we talk about be AME,
• 35:51
  we talk about representation the minute, it comes to our centers
• 35:54
  with At that sounds fancy When you mention all these titles.
• 35:58
  And yes, your tips but no one's actually implements but also,
• 36:00
  you know, one thing that you said is actually something that
• 36:03
  is important to notice that sometimes you do too much like,
• 36:07
  you know, sometimes some shorts and come on the member and
• 36:09
  you'll be like, you know, we have belong, right?
• 36:12
  He was such a nice, always your life, right?
• 36:16
  And it becomes almost pretentious.
• 36:18
  It becomes like overdoing it. Yeah.
• 36:20
  So yeah. It's like a tick box criteria.
• 36:22
  Exactly two blocks. All right, now we're not racist.
• 36:25
  We have a companion that of sahab of the holy prophet was
• 36:27
  black. Yeah.
• 36:28
  You know I mean it's like you know that thing that they say in
• 36:31
  especially in the Trump campaign in the u.s. people said, I'm all
• 36:35
  Races. Have a black friend, you know, I
• 36:37
  mean it's the same concept when you're talking about Islam.
• 36:41
  He said, no, no I'm not racist. I have a, I have a.
• 36:44
  How about the only problem we're gonna get it here too, now.
• 36:46
  Well, we're not racist, we've got Indian Prime Minister.
• 36:48
  There you go. Was to keep growing and keep
• 36:56
  working to find ways to make people feel less awkward to be
• 37:00
  less awkward ourselves and to to to kind of, you know,
• 37:04
  introspect, right? I mean we have to critique
• 37:06
  ourselves and say do I have any racism within me or any
• 37:09
  discrimination? You know, we have to also solve
• 37:12
  those hot those hard tough questions.
• 37:14
  The if Society is like this now an argument is like this.
• 37:18
  Now in terms of getting there with integrated slowly 20 years
• 37:20
  from now, Charlotte it will be even more integrated.
• 37:22
  I will be more cohesive, you know and at that At time when we
• 37:26
  as inshallah as viewers our parents or grandparents or
• 37:30
  whatever are looking to get our children married or we're
• 37:34
  helping our friends, find a spouse for their children or
• 37:36
  something like that, or our children are getting married.
• 37:38
  And what are we going to do? Are we going to, are we going to
• 37:40
  back away? And say, no?
• 37:42
  No, you can only marry from someone from this Centre.
• 37:44
  Or are we gonna put our cards on the table?
• 37:46
  So look. Do you know what this is?
• 37:48
  This is Huck. Huck is where Justice is at the
• 37:51
  end of the day, you know. So there's it's a collective
• 37:54
  effort. Shall we have to encourage each
• 37:56
  other any last comments? I will just say to everyone
• 37:59
  listening and shot a lot. If you have any thoughts or
• 38:02
  second thoughts about allowing someone else from a different
• 38:05
  race coming into your own family, marrying, your son or
• 38:08
  daughter think twice, open your heart set on the show alone,
• 38:11
  help you. Yeah I'm Dolly pleasure to have
• 38:13
  you on Monday as pleasure to be here and Charlotte.
• 38:16
  Hopefully again the future inshallah we'll see what
• 38:18
  happens. I'll see you.
• 38:20
  Need to subscribe to after Marc Webb.
• 38:22
  Yeah. Yeah yes.
• 38:23
  Big shout-out to my main point of this.
• 38:25
  Entire competition jokes aside, I just want to say that.
• 38:28
  I trust me for me, racism was just within my Rocky culture as
• 38:33
  discrimination because I've actually learnt something
• 38:35
  different. Seeing it from both your
• 38:37
  perspective. Likewise.
• 38:38
  Thank you likewise. It is a couple of times but this
• 38:40
  is thank you again, for tuning in.
• 38:42
  It's always a pleasure to be here with you.
• 38:45
  As always, we are open to feedback suggestions.
• 38:48
  We need to hear what you think, but if you want to catch our
• 38:50
  attention, you need to leave a comment.
• 38:52
  So drop a comment down below. Leave us a like, subscribe.
• 38:55
  Wrap to the channel and don't forget you can follow us on
• 38:57
  Instagram on Tick Tock and Insha'Allah, we will be back
• 39:00
  next week and we look forward to seeing you then assalamualaikum
• 39:03
  to like or card.