Latest / Skin Anarchy / Jenny Jin, Beauty Director for PureWow

Transcript

Jenny Jin, Beauty Director for PureWow · Skin Anarchy

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Ekta, and I'm so excited today because I have the beauty director for Pure Wow with me, Jenny Jin.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Jenny.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited you're here.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, thanks so much for having me.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for making the time.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's truly an honor to host you.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I really want to get to know um everything about your career and how you got into beauty and um if you can share that with us.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I got into beauty in my mid-20s, actually, which now looking back seems like, oh, you were so young.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time, I really felt like I was starting the game late.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of my peers, you know, they were journalism majors in college.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of their internships started off in the editorial world, you know, at different magazines.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: And whereas I kind of did the reverse, I started off in journalism for not even a full semester.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I quickly switched to communication because I thought, oh, I'll make myself more marketable this way.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because journalism even then was a quote unquote dying field as a shrinking field, certainly.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I guess that's like the responsible part of me felt like, you know what?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna widen my um, you know, job opportunities.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's smart.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I switched into communication.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I graduated in 2009, which was, if you remember, uh, not a great time to graduate with the recession going on.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it was definitely a rough time, yeah.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a tough time to get a job.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I did land a job, and my first job was in the nonprofit world.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was working for a waste association outside of DC, um, doing a lot of their marketing.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I was writing copy for them essentially, and I eventually transitioned into an event planning role for them because it was a small company, it was truly one of those wears lots of hats kind of job description.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really fun though, because I was in my early 20s and I had a lot of colleagues who were around my same age, and we would travel and plan events together.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it was a great first job, despite it having nothing to do with beauty.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was just happy to be employed and have insurance, truthfully.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I like that though.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like you gain so many perspectives along the way.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So when you eventually settle down into your real career, it's like it's nice to have that.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm actually glad you did that.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it's one of those things.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: In hindsight, you appreciate that stuff so much more.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think at the time I felt incredibly scattershot almost, you know.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was kind of like, what am I doing really?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so from there, I knew I always wanted to have a chapter in New York.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just one of those things.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just really wanted to have that New York lifestyle.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I did make the move to New York, and I did so by taking a job this time in finance.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it was an event planning position for an investor relations firm in Midtown.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And wow, just completely different.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I knew from the get-go that this was a stepping stone to get myself to New York so I can support my my lifestyle, my expensive lifestyle in New York City.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I quit I quickly knew that that was gonna be a temporary, you know, solution to get myself there.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had to figure out what I really, really wanted to do.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just remember approaching my 25th birthday and feeling very, you know, that that Brittany Spears, like not a girl, not yet a woman.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that reference.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's awesome.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is very much how I felt.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I felt like I wasn't quite on the track that I wanted to be on.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I did that soul searching.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I started my soul searching process, and you know, I did the whole networking thing.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: I started reaching out to my alumni network.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: I would cold, email, and tweet um people who I thought were interesting, who had interesting careers, just to learn more about what they were doing and how they got there.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a very long, long-winded story, but this is essentially.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I I find it interesting, right?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because beauty is so for me, I mean, coming, I'm I'm like a total outsider to the beauty industry, you know, and and for me, I it's always interesting to learn how um, you know, the really the the great minds of this industry, uh how you guys have come into it, you know.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I really um it might seem long-winded to you, but I I I love all the details.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: So please continue.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad to hear it.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh for me, I'm like, am I rambling too much?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: But no, you are the honest to God truth of uh how I got here, um, which which was a roundabout way.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I, you know, when I first started that that process of trying to figure out what I wanted to do, it was very broad.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was very much, I want to work in the lifestyle space.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which which could mean anything, really.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: It could be fashion, it could be beauty, it could be event planning, which I was already doing.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it just it took a lot of um trial and error.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And by that I mean like going to different events and talking to different people to figure out what I wanted to do versus what I didn't want to do, um, which I think is equally important to know if you're not a hundred percent sure of the direction you want to go in.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's very much a process of elimination.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: But by the time I I knew that a beauty editor job existed, because mind you, when I was growing up, there was no social media.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm dating myself here, but I mean it came up later in when I was in college, is when it started to really take off.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, and so I didn't really have um an idea of what like that a beauty editor even existed.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I knew fashion editors existed because I read magazines, but for some reason I never really put two and two together that the same was also true for beauty.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think I was on Tumblr at the time, and Eva Chen was the beauty director at Teen Vogue.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And she would post so many things about her day-to-day.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when I saw that window, you know, when I saw that, my whole world was like, What?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do that.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: That is what I want to do.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like light bulb went off.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was just like a window into this world that I didn't even know existed.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And once I knew it existed, I knew that was what I wanted to do.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I became very one-track minded about trying to find a way in, which wow, I don't know.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: If I look back on it, it's very wow, it's surprising because it took a lot of it's surprising in that it took a lot of persistence and patience.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there was no easy way in because it is a very small industry, particularly within the beauty editor world.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's, you know, even if you think about it now, there's maybe two, two dozen.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm trying to think, but I can really think of like off the top of my head, the number of beauty editors that are at uh magazines or uh websites that I that I see um at events or used to see at events.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's all virtual.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: So think about the number, it's not a huge group of people, yeah, yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a huge, and you you know this from from researching who you're gonna interview for the podcast, right?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: I've I everyone I would find, I'm like, oh, it's like finding a diamond in a coal mine, you know.
• 8:08
  unknown: Yes.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I I get it, I totally get it.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually, you know, for me, I I'm gonna ask you this because it's very interesting to me how um, you know, I grew up as you know an Indian American woman, and for me, finding my own beauty, um, you know, just looking at beauty magazines, finding my own kind of groove of things was a little difficult.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I I want to, I'm wondering from your perspective, when you realize this is the career you want to do, um, what were some of the things that you knew that you could bring to the space that were very unique, you know, given your unique perspective and you know, just the the background you've grown up with, you know, I just that component.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's such a great question.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm a Korean American and I grew up in Louisiana.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I spent most of my formative years down south where I was the only Korean in my entire school.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, yeah, I mean, it definitely um had its share of challenges, but at the same time, my grandparents came to live with us when I was eight, and my grandmother in particular showed me um the world of Korean music and Korean culture, and with it, Korean beauty.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was exposed to that at a very early age, and it left a big impression on me.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so the the basics of skincare, for instance, like sunscreen, right?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: That was, you know, embedded, you know, in my day-to-day from a very early age.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I have so many fond memories of watching my mom and my grandma uh get ready for the day and also do their skincare routine every night.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I just remember watching them a lot when I was a kid and finding the whole process to be fascinating.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I bet.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I just I always really liked the beauty aisles when I was a kid.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: When I'd go to CVS or Walgreens, I would spend most of my time strolling through those aisles in particular.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's just something about it that I found very, I don't know, it was a creative outlet, a way to express myself.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, it's art, right?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I always like to think of beauty as art.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're all, you know, I know like when we play around with makeup or something just as simple as that, in a way, that's we're creating art, you know, and and I love that.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what for me intrigues me so much about the beauty industry, because when I talk to someone like you, and I when I, you know, speak to an editorial um, you know, person, I always think of it as I'm speaking to an artist because to be able to explain, you know, products that are giving people freedom of expression, right?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's for me what beauty stands for is like this this space of like openness where you can just be who you are, you know, and just express yourself.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm always intrigued um about your approach because I really do look at you guys as artists, you know.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So um I would love to talk a little bit more about that in terms of you know, when you're taking on a project or you're speaking about a brand, um, what are some of the the big things that you look for um in that brand?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean to be honest, there are so many different factors, and especially now when truthfully the market is just so saturated with different brands, and within each brand, there's so many different products, right?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Think of like the number of launches that you see on Instagram alone.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's dizzying.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's just so much that even in the eight years now that I've been an editor, I've seen a marked difference from when I started to now.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's become increasingly more important and also more challenging to really be discerning about which products you're recommending.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um so for me, I think what initially hooks me is definitely the brand story.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I love to hear the story behind why the product was made or who founded the brand and what was the reason.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then once that I'm hooked in that way, then I make it a point to really use and test the product, especially if it's a skincare product.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's less, you know, with skincare, you're supposed to wait anywhere between eight to 12 weeks to see its full potential effects.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Which most people don't want to wait eight to 12 weeks.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's why I ask, right, Jenny?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, that's what I'm confused about because I know how difficult it must be from your standpoint of, you know, being an editor and having to sift through so many products and try to find something that you can really stand behind.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, how what is that process for you?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because it must be so overwhelming.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's so many good brands out there that I couldn't imagine having your role, and you know what I mean, like saying, okay, I'm gonna feature this one or I'm gonna pick this one.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: That that would just must be so difficult.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it really is overwhelming at times, even with my my deep love of beauty, of products, of science, of the people in the industry, even with that love, I still find it incredibly overwhelming at times.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um there is a lot of things to consider, you know.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And now that especially for me, making the move from print to digital several years ago, um, the pace is so different because when I was in print, you know, we would work on one issue a month.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I would have that entire month to really think about which products were gonna go on the pages and why.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas now this is a day-to-day thing.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: I am writing and editing and putting up stories on a daily basis, sometimes several times a day.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: It just depends on the day, really.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I mean, okay, honestly, can I be I'm just gonna be honest with you because this is something that I've been, you know, really kind of struggling with in terms of because I'm you know, for in terms of magazines, I'm a total magazine girl.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: I always have been growing up, you know, that was like my little escape, you know what I mean?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like from the day.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like flipping through a magazine was just the best feeling and getting it, you know, going to the grocery store and picking up that one combo.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Exciting.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, and and when you just said that, it really kind of sparked this in me because I know how much work went into writing a piece that was in print because I remember reading that magazine cover to cover and just consuming all that amazing information that the editors were writing about.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: But now I find myself as a consumer, you know, with digital, it's harder for me to get into it like I did with print.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, how is is that a challenge for you when it comes to like your the consumers and like the the audience?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you get that feedback or no?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, I it's actually very interesting to hear your perspective, even because I'm I'm on the other side, you know, and really as I'm hearing you say this, I do remember um what I felt when I was just simply a consumer of magazines.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I I also was one of those people that subscribed to a bunch of magazines.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And whenever I'd go to the grocery store with my mom, I'd always ask if I could have the the newest copy of Women's Health or Allure or Yeah, it was cool, wasn't it?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: I missed those days.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Same.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: I still do it sometimes.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: If I go to Target or if I go to pick up something, I would say nine times out of ten, I end up picking up a magazine.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: I need to I need to follow your footsteps in that.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not yeah, no, I mean it is a different world.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I that's why I'm very curious about digital because I fully don't understand it.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't understand how it works in terms of just, you know, with a magazine, it was like, okay, this is the um, you know, September issue, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like understood, like, okay, all the fashion and all the beauty is gonna be like in season.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So with digital, how does that work?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it still like that with issues or how how is how does it format it?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I think every site has a different process and timetable.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: But for us, we we usually pitch our evergreen stories, so stories that aren't so tied to, let's say, a specific launch date or news that just came in about I don't know, let's it could be a celebrity just collaborated with a brand, let's say, um, something that's just happening now or in real time, that will cover, you know, day of moment of.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: But for the evergreen stuff, which means stories that don't have an expiration.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm trying to think of an example.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, for instance, um, stories about hair care.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: We have so many stories, people are obsessed with hair.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: At least our readers are.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, like these are the best colors to try this spring, or these are some ways to prevent breakage, or this is the reason why you might have hair loss, like these types of stories.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: We generally pitch and plan out every two weeks.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll do that in batches, right?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So every two weeks we'll be cycling through new stories.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And any additional things that come through, like I said, that that are more timely, we'll tackle that day.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it's just it's like a faster pace then, right?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: A much faster pace.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the thing is, I've heard of other places doing weekly pitch cycles or you know, some people even do daily.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it just depends on the site, how how big it is, how big the staff is, you know.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now I now I want to ask you, why did you um pick pure wow as as your um, you know, your career choice?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: What did you really love about the publication?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So at the time when I joined the company, it was still very much growing.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was at Real Simple Magazine at Time Inc., which was a very like well-established magazine.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was in a team of two, and I loved being there, but I I knew that um it would be a much slower path to growth, you know, just because there it was that was limited.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: There was only two of us, and the person directly um ahead of me certainly wasn't leaving or didn't have any plans to.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was slowly feeling that I should probably get some digital experience under my belt.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it felt like a good idea.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And here was Pirwow, who was, I think they were just a couple years in into starting, but already they were starting to generate some buzz.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I went in to meet with them, it was just one of those things.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just had a really good gut feeling.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And when I joined the company, it was very much that startup environment where there were maybe 30 something of us sitting in this really cute office space with dogs running around, and the company culture was so warm and you know, everyone was friendly, and we'd hang out in the kitchen and have snacks together.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And oh, I love that.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a very exciting time to join join the company.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I I mean, did I know that I'd be here five years later?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't think you can predict that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, there's no way to.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And now, you know, I do want to know one thing because I in my previous episodes, um, the I, you know, the concepts of inclusivity and diversity have come up in terms of beauty and what is um given the limelight in terms of products, or, you know, for example, for our podcast purposes, skincare brands, you know, um, or even makeup brands with foundation shades that, you know, might not match.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So all of that, all that stuff, right?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Which I'm sure you know much more about than I do.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that whole conversation comes up.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I always get stuck because the feedback I've gotten is well, there's not enough people and women of diversity or people of diverse backgrounds in the conversation rooms, right?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: In the conference rooms that are talking about this stuff.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, from your perspective, um, what do you think is the biggest challenge right now in editorial in terms of addressing inclusivity and you know, and addressing diversity and making sure that it becomes almost like embedded in the culture of beauty.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think I echo a lot of what you just said.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm assuming you're you're talking about other editors who you've spoken to for the podcast, where traditionally, or not traditionally, historically, um, yeah, there aren't as many women of color in the rooms when we're having these conversations.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I I do think that that is slowly starting to change, and I'm hopeful that that's slowly starting to change.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think last year was a really eye-opening time for for all of us, both in the beauty industry and outside of the industry.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's just something that I know we are making conscious strides to address internally, and just me on like an individual level.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just I'm always looking for ways that I can I can do more to tell those stories and to to include more people into all the stories and conversations.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it one of the things that always pops up for me is when I think about K Beauty um in skincare, I'm so proud of that movement because for me, like looking at it as you know, a woman who's not from that culture, I was able.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: To learn so much about Korean culture through the, you know, the purchasing of certain products and learning about the history of the ingredients.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what I mean?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like that whole thing.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I use it as almost like a, you know, I use K Beauty as a benchmark of where we need to eventually get to with um, you know, all sorts of uh beauty from other cultures, right?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like eye beauty, like Indian beauty, for example, you know, lots of turmeric, lots of ginger, you know.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: From and that's what I'm curious about from an editorial standpoint, because I feel like, you know, this kind of stuff I feel like needs to be written about more.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know how that would integrate into, you know, um stories that are published.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like be, you know, I just want more insight, is what I'm trying to say.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's interesting that you even brought up iBeauty because I think a conversation that sparked recently with all of the crimes and hate crimes that are happening within the Asian American community and how it affects beauty is that there have been so many quote unquote beauty trends that have Asian history behind it, but have been appropriated or not given credit, right?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like everything from the turmeric and the uh Ayurvedic practices to gua sha and I mean countless K-beauty cushion, cushion compacts and whatever.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much, there's so much that it's kind of just marketed as a buzzy new thing.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: But in reality, there is a ton of history there that's not being explained.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's my biggest problem.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: I hate that.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like, you know, it's not honestly pet peeve, pet peeve.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, huge pet peeve, honestly, Jenny, because I, you know, I sit there and I have friends who are, you know, obviously of all different diversity and cult, you know, and cultures.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I sit there and I listen to their stories of, you know what I mean, like what their mothers taught them or what they learned from their grandmothers um when it comes to beauty or just routine things.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's such a beautiful experience just hearing those stories.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So when I see a brand completely appropriate a culture, I it makes me very angry because it's like you would have more of a following, I can promise you, if you stayed true to the culture of where you got this from.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because consumers like me, I want to know where you got it from.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know what this tool like, for example, the other day I was I came across this um, this new tool, right?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like all the skincare tools that are out now.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it was basically, I I promise you, I swear, I've seen this in India in the markets.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: I remember being like, you know, younger and walking through the markets and seeing this exact thing, and it was being sold in America for like$80 a pop.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you can buy this for three rupees in any Indian thing, like right, right.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's like it's not that I'm against it.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: I just want there to be a lot more transparency, you know what I mean?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and a lot more credit to be given where it's due.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the Asian communities and Asian cultures are like long overdue for that credit, in my opinion, you know.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think like you said earlier, K-beauty, I'm so proud of it too.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so, I don't know, it makes my heart feel full to know that there's so many people who have become more aware of Korean culture through K-beauty.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just the beginning, right?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that it's just a way to open doors to more cultures and more stories and more education around the very rich history that that comes with a lot of not just Asian cultures, but since we're talking about Asian cultures, I mean, think of the history there.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I yeah, when I talk to my parents, we always like my dad always points out how young of a country America is in comparison.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Same.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: My dad does the same.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, yes, I know.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's not even there's we don't even have a century behind us, you know what I mean?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like a full real century, like a you know, like just of history, you know, and and all of the history we have is it's a melting pot.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: So why are we not, you know, like why don't we embrace that?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: My father has the same complaints.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: He's an old Indian man with a lot of, you know what I mean?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like he grew up in old India, so I understand.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's it's interesting being a Korean American, and I really do identify with the Korean part of myself.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think even within my family, my brother and I are kind of different in that way, you know.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I speak, read, write Korean fluently, but that was a choice.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: That was something that I really wanted to do since I was young because my grandmother, I wanted to be able to communicate with her.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I was just so into the culture, I just loved the music and and the dramas, like the the TV shows.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, the soap operas.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, all of it was just so appealing to me that I made a very concerted effort to learn more and more about it.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so, whereas my brother was more so, I don't know, he he just he just wasn't as as integrated.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and that could be any number of things, you know.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's seven years older than I am, and he also grew up, obviously, we grew up together in the south, and so he was also one of the only Korean kids in his school.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And God, that must have been so hard.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, honestly, like I grew up in, I know I can relate a little bit, but in the south, especially.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think even between the 80s and the 90s and the 2000s, yeah, there are differences, you know, and comparing it even to now, right?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, and when I say differences, I mean, you know, in terms of what was considered cool, what was mainstream, what was accepted.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like KE beauty wasn't even a thing back when I was growing up.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, same.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't, you know, it wasn't even a thing for a while.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: We were adults too.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And when it came out, I was like so impressed and I was so excited because it's like finally I get to all of these things that I'm doing for my skin.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know the culture this comes from.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that is like so much more meaningful than just picking up a random product off the shelf, you know what I mean?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: And just saying, Oh, I use this.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's just so much more like like personal involvement in that way.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I mean, I I personally, you know, for me, like if there's one message I really hope people understand is like like from my perspective, if you take the time to understand a culture, the the violence and the hate and all the negativity that comes, it goes away in some ways.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I really believe that because I've seen people that they don't know anything about a culture and they're just just hateful people.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: But then when you enlighten them a little bit and they learn about these are, you know what I mean?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like the the real historical stuff, it's like it almost opens their eyes in a way that's so indirect that it affects the way that they treat people.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I think this the beauty, it really ties in, you know, with all of society and all of culture because we learn from it.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: We learn from the things that we experience in the beauty industry, right?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you hit the nail on the head right there with what you said.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like that right there is the very reason at my core why I was drawn to this industry and what motivates me when I have a day full of deadlines and meetings.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it that's that's it right there.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's that ability to facilitate larger conversations between people and to really highlight the fact that we really are a lot more similar than we are different.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, yes, it's it's kind of it's like the easiest way to have like an icebreaker with someone you don't know or someone you just met or someone who's from a completely different world than you are, yeah, is how low what's that?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the lowest barrier to entry of like, oh, what um lipstick do you like?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like yes, exactly, yes, 100% agree with you.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's everyone has a memory or a product or something that that they like.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I find that it's a very easy way to to break the ice between two people.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, Jenny, this has been awesome.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love talking to you, and I I would love to have you back anytime if you have the schedule for it.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: I hope I didn't ramble too much.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, not at all.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're so fun to talk to.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope everyone listening out there, if you guys have any questions for Jenny, please leave them in the comments um on our cover art.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: I will definitely pass them along to her if she has some time to answer.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: And leave us some ratings, um, some feedback.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: If there's something you want to hear more about or see more on our show, we're happy to incorporate that.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much, Jenny.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Stay well, everyone.
• 30:56
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• 32:03
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