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#2205 The Awareness Pyramid - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I got a team. It's Bobby, it's Tiffany and Cook,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: it's me, It's Craig, Anthony Harper. It's the project that
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: you and last week we had a week off. There
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: was a bit going on on Planet Jumbo, so I
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: needed to put the metaphoric queue in the metaphoric rack
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: for a minute. But we are back. We are back,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: and we're glad. It's nice. It's been weird to be
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: away for so long. Let's start with the lady. Hi, tiv.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: It's getting I to joke where I look around for
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: the lady, isn't it?
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Yes? It is?
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: But we like it. I like it. Well, sometimes I
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: could say I could go to Bobby anyway, we all
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: know that. So how's things? What are you up to?
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Watch new? How's you bloke? I know you're wheeling out
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: or you're creating some new programs. You're being enterprising and
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: entrepreneurial and all that shit. How's that going? Mate?
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: My brain hit on? How you do a PhD? I
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: sit down for five minutes doing some research. My brain
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: is sore. My brain is sore. I know you're going
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: to tell me that's not possible, but probably possible.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, I submitted last week. So I'm glad so
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: for the minute, until I get feedback from much smarter
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: academics than me, like real academics from overseas, from independent
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: universities who are paid to peer reviewers. But I've just
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: got my feed up on the academic couch for the moment,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: just goofing off. But I'll ship myself in about six
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: weeks when all the red lines get drawn through my
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: work and then I have to somewhat not start again,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: but fix all the fuck ups, as they say in
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: the classics. So like, I think what you're doing, which
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: is building new programs and stuff and new income streams
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  Speaker 1: and all of that, it's like an intersection of left
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: brain right brain, because even though that's kind of been
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: debunked a bit, but anyway, it's very like it's creative
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: because you're solving problems, you're conceptualizing, you're turning an idea
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: into a reality. But then at the same time, there's
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: got to be a lot of critical thinking because you go, well,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: that's good conceptually, but how do I do that practically?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: And what if this happens or what if that happens.
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  Speaker 1: It's like anticipating all the problems or potential problems before
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: they arise, so that when they arise, they're not a problem.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: And I am like, it's not off. I love learning
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: as long as I love the learning. Like I always say,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: I hate going to university or you know, school, I
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: get sick of it. But I'll tell you what, once
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I'm chasing a rabbit down a hole, I've think at
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: another in the mornings, not even getting dressed, getting on
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: my computer and starting and sitting there for hours, just
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: chasing data and science and new ideas, and I'm obsessed.
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  Speaker 3: It's so good.
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  Speaker 1: Well, the difference is you are into what you're learning. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: Like a lot of people tick an academic box because
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: they have to learn this thing or they think, oh,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: this is probably the best pathway to the where I
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: want to be in five or ten, and so I'll
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: do this thing. Versus you don't have a syllabus, you
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: don't have a semester, you don't have exams, and you
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: create your own kind of learning model and then you
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  Speaker 1: dive into that and stuff that doesn't work you fuck
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: that often, stuff that does work you embrace that. And yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I think that and that ties in with our topic
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: that we'll talk about today. Yeah, but good well, I
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: look forward to the fruits of your work. Yeah, thank you.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: You know what I find interesting is how that whole
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: thing is, like the potential lays dormant until for me anyway,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: and I'm sure some other people would be to say
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  Speaker 2: this potential lays completely dormant until you stumble across it
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  Speaker 2: one day. Like for me, I have to my toes
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: into different areas and have a little look and play
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  Speaker 2: and fill around until all of a sudden it feels
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  Speaker 2: like I'm almost surprised that of how I can find
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  Speaker 2: something that I didn't realize was going to take me
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  Speaker 2: wherever it does. It's really cool.
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  Speaker 1: I think our potential for most people, sorry Bobby will
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: come to you in a sec.
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  Speaker 3: Man.
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  Speaker 1: I think our problem, or the issue with potential for
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  Speaker 1: most people is not that they are not talented, not
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  Speaker 1: that they are not smart, not that they don't have potential,
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  Speaker 1: but they don't understand their potential. You know, they don't
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  Speaker 1: understand what they can do or change or be or
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  Speaker 1: become or unlearn. You know, I've said a million times,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm being genuinely authentic. I don't I think genuine
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  Speaker 1: or authentic is enough Craig. I'm being authentic when I
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  Speaker 1: say I am I'm not. I think I'm intuitively and
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  Speaker 1: instinctively kind of smart ish, but I'm not academically brilliant.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not a creative genius, and I'm
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  Speaker 1: not a super athlete, and I don't you know all
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: those things. But it's then about so what have you
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: been given to work with? Like, what do you have
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  Speaker 1: genetically or you know, cognitively or creatively or what like?
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  Speaker 1: What do you have at your disposal? Just innately what's there?
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  Speaker 1: And then, but most importantly, what are you doing with it?
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  Speaker 1: There are way more talented people than me, way more
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  Speaker 1: who come to me for advice, and I'm like, you're
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  Speaker 1: a genius compared to me. But you don't do the work.
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  Speaker 1: You don't get uncomfortable, you don't get scared and step
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: into it. You step away from it. So what is
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: dictating your outcomes and your path and your passage at
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: this point in time is fear and self doubt and
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: imposter syndrome and all those fear derivatives. It's you're so
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: you're wasting what you've been given. But you are not
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: the problem as much as it is you're thinking, which
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: we're going to dive into today. What your process, Bobby
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: for taking something in your head, a conceptualization I thought,
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  Speaker 1: an idea, a creative something, and then turning it into
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  Speaker 1: a real thing. Do you struggle with that? Are you
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: good at that?
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  Speaker 3: I'm very much like Tiffany. When I start getting excited
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: about something, I chase things down rabbit hors. So I'll
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: take a body of information, but then there'll be something
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  Speaker 3: in that information that takes me someplace else in a
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  Speaker 3: totally different direction, related but kind of tangentially related. And
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  Speaker 3: then I'll follow that and that'll lead me somewhere else.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: And I allow myself to do that. I think my
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  Speaker 3: learning process is very disorganized, Like if you were to
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: look at me in the course of a day, like
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: I really recently, I'm learning all day Like most of
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: what I'm doing all day long is working, but it
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: looks like a mess. A colleague of mind asked me, like, well,
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  Speaker 3: what do you do? What's your process? Like? You know,
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: what are you typically doing when you're not like in
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: a meeting or presenting or coaching? You know, what does
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: it look like from two to four? And it looks
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: it looks like complete chaos. I've got like every book
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: I open on my desk, I've got multiple browsers open.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: I'm just chasing stuff. And then what starts to organize this,
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: what creates convergence in one way, shape or form, is
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: let's say I'm an event, you know, like the next
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: thing I'm teaching, I think is on abbit formation. It's like, oh, okay, well,
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: what's the fundamental problem that I'm trying to solve? And
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: in this particular workshop, it's people who constantly start over, right,
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: Like why do I keep starting over? And it's like, well, no,
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  Speaker 3: it's not that you're not disciplined. It's like you're lazy.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: It's your systems. It's the systems and the environment and
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: the competing priorities. You don't have a frame work to
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: structure that. And it's like, okay, well what would be
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: a couple of questions that they would have and what
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: does that frame look like? You know, I think and
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: work in acronyms, so I would start with that, like
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: core habit model. You know, Tiffany's Sink of Hearing. We've
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: had like three episodes on it, and it's like each
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  Speaker 3: one is a bucket. So now I have all this
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  Speaker 3: chaotic information in front of me. I'm like, what is
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  Speaker 3: one question that's the portal into each bucket of information
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  Speaker 3: within that organized flow of the acronym. Okay, great, where's
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: this information that fits into it? Okay, now that I
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: have it in there, It's almost like the story of
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  Speaker 3: not comparing myself to Michelangelo in any way, shape or form,
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  Speaker 3: but on an informational level, that's what it is. Where
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: he carved out this rough outline. He spent years, and
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: the David was was this kind of somewhat formless, semi shape,
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  Speaker 3: and then he removed everything that was not the David,
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  Speaker 3: and then he sat out and polished and refined it.
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  Speaker 3: That's what I'm doing, Okay, what's everything that's not essential
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  Speaker 3: for this right now? And then I get an end product,
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  Speaker 3: something that's deliverable, and then it's like I can go
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: anywhere with it, Like, oh, well, you just you know,
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: you just go off the cuff. No I don't. I
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: don't go off the cuff at all.
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  Speaker 1: What's the biggest barrier for both of you to becoming
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  Speaker 1: more efficient? Efficient? I feel like you are sometimes because
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  Speaker 1: you kind of you're you said yourself, you're like a
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  Speaker 1: dog with three dicks. Right, you're a life you know,
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  Speaker 1: so it reeks inefficiency, but nonetheless you do get great results.
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  Speaker 1: Or it could be I don't know whatever you said,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: like laziness or you know whatever, Like what's the emotional
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  Speaker 1: and or psychological barrier? Let's start with you, tif like,
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  Speaker 1: what's one thing that you do that doesn't work that
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  Speaker 1: you need to stop doing in regards to what we're
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  Speaker 1: talking about.
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  Speaker 2: Only one? Only one? Oh maybe okay. One that seems
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  Speaker 2: obvious this week is really planning, Like I am once
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  Speaker 2: I have an overarching idea, my enthusiasm takes me to
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  Speaker 2: start the execution straight away and not plan the steps
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: and not plan the process. And sometimes that means I
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: spend hours creating something that doesn't end up being part
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: of the whole thing, or it's just a waste of time,
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  Speaker 2: or I just get it completely overwhelmed by too many
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  Speaker 2: things at once.
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  Speaker 1: It's almost like emotion Hijack's logic, because you just get
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  Speaker 1: on this emotional roller coaster like fagot and it isn't that,
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  Speaker 1: but you haven't really hit the pause button and stood
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  Speaker 1: back and go cool. That's a good idea. I'm excited,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: but what do I need to do right now? Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: like right now for where I'm at and where I
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: want to be. What's the most intelligent strategy or step?
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: What about you, Robert Blake, What's something that you do
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  Speaker 1: that is probably more of a hindrance than a help
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  Speaker 1: in your own kind of journey?
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  Speaker 3: I think where I get stuck as operationally and administratively.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: So I'm really good at the strategy, like what does
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: it all look like? What are all the pieces that
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: need to fit together? What are all the things that
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  Speaker 3: need to happen and why? And really good at aggregating information,
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: then organizing that and then refining it and executing on
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  Speaker 3: it and adapting it. But when it comes to all
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: of the operational limit like okay, how are you going
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: to collect the data on this? Right? So? Like how
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: is this? You know? Like how are they going to
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: register for this? And it's like all of those things.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, I am like a train wreck. Luckily,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: right now I have people who are very good at
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: that around me. But yeah, that is not my strong suit,
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: like organizing.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: That's why everyone in the world needs a Melissa.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Everybody needs Yeah, yeah, so she create a Melissa AI,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: like just download everything she is and knows and believes,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: and it could be it could be like Melissa Ai.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she has spent fifteen years making me look way
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: better than I am, and it couldn't be more grateful.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: So what I wanted to chat about. I just put
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: up a post. So we're recording this Thursday on the thirtieth,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: and I just put up a post on LinkedIn and
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Facebook and answer about kind of a snapshot of some
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: of the some of the components of my PhD research,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: some of the things that we explored and that we unpacked,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and what kind of components of the big picture of metapception.
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  Speaker 1: Metaperception being how accurately you understand how other people perceive
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: or experience you ll think about you. So, Tiff, I
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  Speaker 1: want you to have a look at the bottom. So
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: we're going to go through this just because I think
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  Speaker 1: it's like a snapshot for our audience of six years
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: of my work. And by the way, this is very base.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: This is not the high watermark of academic exploration by
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: any means, but it just gives people like a real practical,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: real world insight. And then I want to talk off
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  Speaker 1: the back of that, if we have time about how
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: we can actually learn to reprogram our own mind or
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: think differently. Because we talk about mate, you can't think
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: like that. We say that all that, you can't think
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: like that, stop thinking about yourself like that. That's cool,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: but that's not a strategy. Like telling people don't worry
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: is like telling someone who's tall not to be tall.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: It's fucking stupid because I'm tall and I'm worried. So
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: when you say don't worry, the worry doesn't go. So
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: it's more digging into yeah, well, how do I change
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: from being in a worried state to a less worried state?
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: And so on? But can you tell us about what's
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  Speaker 1: written at the bottom of the pure amid what is it?
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Just unpack all that four of us for us and
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: we'll jump in.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Metacognition. Do you want me to read all of the parts?
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: You just read them all out and then we'll have
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: a chat.
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  Speaker 2: Awesome, So metacognition which is exploring your own mind, becoming
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: aware of your thoughts, stories and ideas, simply thinking about
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: your thinking, and discovering the space between objectivity and your
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: subjective interpretation i e. Your reality versus the reality is.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: What sticks out there for you Bobby. I mean, I
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: know this is not new information for you, but would
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: you use this personally? Would you talk to others about this?
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: And how could we turn this theoretical stuff on this
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: screen that we're looking at into something more operational.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: It is very likely I would start there at the
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: bottom of that pyramid. Yeah. I love the way this
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: is lead out because here's the right and I don't
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: want to go on a tangent, so I'll just get
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: to the point here. If you're looking to go somewhere,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: like in your thinking, in your relationship, your career, it's like, Okay,
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: what do I really want and what are the like,
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: the attitudes, the skills, the behaviors that are going to
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: get me there? But then there's another question, what's getting
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: in the way?
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Why am I not there already? So if I'm someone
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: who doesn't have flexibility in my thinking, if I'm someone
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: who struggles with accepting viewpoints that are not my own,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: why is that happening? And I think a lot of
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: that is risk, and a lot of that is lack
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: of clarity. Sometimes other people's thoughts are so threatening to
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: us because we're not exactly sure about our stories and
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: our worldview and our perceptions and why we believe what
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: we believe because we don't have beliefs. Beliefs have us
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: and they've like and if we've grown up where where
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: we have the same beliefs now that we had when
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: we were kids, and we're around the same people who
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: have those beliefs and they have the same beliefs. So
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: we're in a community where everybody, Wow, what a coincidence,
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: shares those beliefs. The odds are we might not have
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: examined and challenged those beliefs. So you come along and
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: you believe something different, and my whole sense of self
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: and therefore security, safety certainty is rooted in that belief.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: But I'm not clear as to what that belief actually
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: is or where it came from. And you have a
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: different one that's very threatening to me. So the first
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: step there would be metacognition, because theory of mind is
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: quite precarious without a cognition.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Why they bro well, why don't you go into theory
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: of mind because that's the next one. Anyway, just explain
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: what it is to our listeners and then unpack it
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: and tif you jump in.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: When you luck, I could just look at your thesis here,
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: all right, well you just d whatever, like thinking about
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: their thinking and knowing that their thinking is not your thinking.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: So here here's a good example. Right, if you take
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: a child who's I don't know, four years old, and
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: you open up this toy chest and it can be like,
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: I don't know, just like like a wooden chest, but
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: in there is all these toys that a four year
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: old kid would just love to play with, and you go, wow,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: isn't that exciting? And then you close up the chest.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: And then you walk in the room and he asks
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: the kid, do you think Craig knows what's in that chest? Well,
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: that kid knows what's in the chest. Who assom Of
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: course you know what's in the chest. But if you
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: take an older kid, a few years older, and you
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: show them, like all those toys in the chest that
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: would be interesting to her kid that age, that kid
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: gets excited. We close the chest, Tiffany walks in the room,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: and it's like, so should we tell Tiffany what's in here?
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: Or do you think sure? Do you think she knows
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: what's in the chest? Well, no, she doesn't know what's
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: in the chest. She wasn't in the room when we
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: open the chest, Tiffany's a different person. Just because I
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: know it's in the toy chest doesn't automatically mean that
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Tiffany in know Switzerland. And that is theory of mind,
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: that that is a cognitive level of advancement where we
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: can separate, like, my thoughts are not necessarily your thoughts
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: because we're different people.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: So just going up, just repeating everyone. So the bottom
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: of the pyramid is metacognition, which is simply starting to
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: explore your own thoughts and try trying to have some
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: insight into whether or not they they serve you or
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: sabotage you where they came from. Like Bobby talked, Bobby said,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: you know, are these actually my thoughts? Or are they
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Dad's thoughts or Mum's thoughts or the priest thoughts or
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: the pastor or the rabbi or the sports teacher. Are
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: they their thoughts that I just absorbed by social osmosis.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't choose them, they chose me. And as Bobby said,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I don't really have beliefs. Beliefs have me. And then
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: so TIF if we're thinking about theory of mind, I think,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: which is essentially having insight into how another person thinks,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: be that a four year old or a forty year
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: old in a business meeting, or for both of you
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: who have your own podcast, you know, a fifty year
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: old guest on the other side of the microphone and
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: sometimes the other side of the world. What do you
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: think the value is in understanding or at least having
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: insight into how other people think, Tiff, Because I personally
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: think this one along with my kind of research, but
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a communication and an interpersonal superpower.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent. It is because like you can't you
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: can't have build relationships or connection with anyone or anything
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: if you don't understand the difference, if you can't differentiate.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: But I wanted to just say, also, the metacognition, like
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: the respect of that that I love is the acknowledgment
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: that we are separate to our thoughts. Yeah, and we
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: can use those thoughts deliberately to think about the fact
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: that our thoughts also just exist separate to us, which
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I think is just an interesting way to look at it.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: You know, another really interesting thing is and then I'll
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: shut up thinking happens because of us and despite us,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: it happens without your consent and it happens with your
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: critical choice. You know it's so did you want to
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: expand on that or you good.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: For me? When I think about not because it sounds
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: almost like self serving, because my podcast is the self
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: hew Bantidote, and it's one of the reasons why I'm
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: so passionate about that, because we're given advice. I think
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: a lot of it's well meaning, and I think a
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: lot of it, to be fair, is not well meaning
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: at all. But it's not one hundred percent accurate, and
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: it's I think it frustrates people and an age where
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: burnout could likely become an epidemic, it's not useful where
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: you've got to don't engage in negative thinking. You need
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: to be the guardian your thoughts. You need to control
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: your thoughts. You need to direct the So many of
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: your thoughts just fly over your head before you're even
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: aware that there's anything there, Like they just emerge. I'm
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: not even aware of a thought that I'm having until
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: after I've had it. So that's like that's like instead
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: of going, you know what today wasn't great, I'm going
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: to do a better job tomorrow, it's like, you know
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: what I could have done better? Today but yesterday, I'll
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: get it right. What that's kind of like what you're saying.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: And people get so frustrated with the thought patterns that
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: they might not have generated. So I think a reflective
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: practice is critically important for metacognition to go back and go,
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: oh that was that was interesting. Either challenge it or
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: explore it, stay curious with it. But I mean not
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: beat yourself up or try to avoid thought patterns that
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: you have no real idea. I mean maybe a clue,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: you have no real idea how they were elicted in
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: the first place.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And also any kind of advice that is firstly,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: and I mean this including us everyone, if you're listening
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: to this, This is not advice. This is a conversation
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: around cognition and awareness basically. But you know, obviously which
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: has been over said, but it really needs to be
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: said again, is that different things work for different people.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Some people are great with talk therapy, some people are
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: shipped with talk therapy. Different people respond to different things,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: even for the same problem or issue or you know,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: medical condition or whatever it is, right, And so it's
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: trying to underst and how you personally, like I walk
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: out on a stage to one thousand people, I'm excited.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: In fact, the other two would be excited as well.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: We're probably an anomaly of three people, that's for sure.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: But most people would walk out and be terrified. It's
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: not that public speaking is awesome or terrifying. It's awesome
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: for one and terrifying for another. And at one stage
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: the guy who's now terrified eventually will love it because
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: he's built skill and competence and brand and all of
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: those things. So all of these things are somewhat fluid
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: and kind of inverted. Commas depends on. So yeah, when
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: somebody that whole kind of don't worry all that whole
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: kind of you know, you need to think this way.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Somebody who's been thinking a certain way for forty years
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: can't think another way, not instantly anyway. So this begins
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: with questioning how we think and then understanding that my
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: thinking is not the truth but rather my version of
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: the truth. And also I'm not looking at the thing.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at the thing through my windows, so I'm
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: seeing my version, my subjective experience and interpretation of that
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: event or that situation or that statement that TIF made
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: or whatever. So let's go up the ladder. So metaperception,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: which is kind of the base for my research, more
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: specifically metaaccuracy, but metaperception I call the you experience, either
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: of you. What do you think is difficult about having
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: insight into how others really see us? So if you
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: were meta accurate everyone, that would mean that you have
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: a really good insight into how other people see you.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: And then with that really good insight, then you can
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: self regulate and self manage through problems solving and conversations
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: and conflict resolution and leadership and management and following and
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: listening and all that shit. Right, what's the tough thing
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: about metapception being able to understand how others start with
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: you tif how others see us?
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I think it is how nuanced it is to really
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: hold on to your awareness when walking into an environment
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: can shift you and your energy and how you present,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: so you hold onto this version of an identity. I'll
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: give you an example. I think about years ago when
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: I was to go in and train people and train
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: at PCYIC and my now good friend s would be
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: kicking the bag and I was like, oh, they have
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: obviously done a lot of training, and I would feel
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: a bit intimidated. We both of us that have headphones
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: on doing our thing, never really interact, and I would
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: be a little bit intimidated, and then eventually realized that
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: they listened to the show. We started training together, sometimes
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: doing some sparring, and one days we were talking and
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: S was like, yeah, I was listening to your show.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: And then I realized who you were. And I was
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: always you were intimidating to me, like I didn't you know?
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: And I so I was intimidated by them making an assumption,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: and both of our energies would have reflected that, which
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: changed who we were in the moment for both of
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: those So how do I perceive how they perceived me?
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: It was hard because I was already making an unknown
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: assumption that changed who I was when I walked into
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: the gym.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, how you think about others thinking about you
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: is based on just on how you think. Yeah, having
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: insight into somebody else's mindset or experience of you, or
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: feelings or thoughts about you, it requires you to walk
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: past the window and get to the other side of
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: the window, you know, the window through which you view
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the world. And I've been told hundreds of times over
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: the years, usually after the fact that I was that
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: people found me intimidating. And at the start that used
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: to piss me off, which is quite intimidating. I used
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: to go, how the fuck am I intimidating? Yeah, realized
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: that wasn't I don't know, wasn't a good plan. Now
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I didn't really get that stuff, I just because I
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: tried so hard not to be that. But I realized
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: it wasn't about my words or language. It was about
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: different things for different people, right, But anyway that was true.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: But then to try to to try to understand when
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I kind of got out of how I see me,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: because how I see me in this doesn't fucking matter
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: in the context of metaperception and building connection and rapport
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: and trust and all of those things that are cool
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: socially building that quickly I need to get out of
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: the how Craig thinks and into how Tiff thinks, not
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: necessarily aligning or being the same or agreeing, but rather
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: just understanding. And when I truly have insight into what's
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: going on in your busy little fucking head, then and wow,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: what a place to what a cognitive landscape to open
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the door on your head is and everyone else's. Yeah,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: but it's it's just that, what about you, Bobby, with
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: this whole understanding how others see us?
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: I hate it. This is the worst we could just
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: cross this.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Sad okay, right, I think the difference. I'll say one thing.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: When I say to people, how do you think people
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: see you or perceive you? They think you're coming from
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: a fearful self esteem, low self esteem kind of you know,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: do people like me? Am I liked? No, It's not
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: about whether or not you're liked. It's literally just how
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: they experience you. Whatever that experience is good, bad, messy, wanted, unwanted, complicated, simple. Yeah.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Some people think I'm a good storyteller, but I'm shit
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: at something else. Or some people think I'm funny. Some
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: people think I'm intimidating, some people think I'm clever, some
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: people think I'm up myself. Whatever, all the things, and
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: all of them are right at some stage, I'm sure.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: So I'm not trying to win them over or I'm
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: not trying to gain alignment or agreement. I'm literally, stely
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: literally just trying to understand them.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: Nothing that's that's a sign of confidence there, Because there's
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: a difference. Right when you're dependent on how someone views you.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: The concern underneath that dependency is how does their opinion
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: impact you? Where in metaperception, what you're talking about is
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: being curious and sensitive to how do I impact them?
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: Like so it awareness and emotional intelligence is the target
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: there a lot of times. So it's not like, oh,
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: do you care about what people think? Or don't you?
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: That's another thing. It's this, well, either you should be
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: invested in other people's thoughts and feelings or no, I
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: couldn't kill us when anybody thinks to me, hold on
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: what's underneath that? What's the motivation there? So if your
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: motivation is I want to understand, so this way I
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: know how I impact people, not being dependent upon how
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: they view me. Because of the impact it has intrinsically,
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: you need a lot of confidence for that to be
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: in that to be in that space, and it's not
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: an easy thing to do, especially in moments of high
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: emotional arousal or where you're a little bit just regulated.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: See I reckon a lot of people are in some
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: context terrible, but in other context really good at this skill.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: And that is you know, you think about if I
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: said to Tiff, a bit of gig for you I
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: can't do it. I want you to go and or
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: the school wants you to go and talk to a
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: bunch of fifteen year old boys and girls just about
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: you know, physical health, mental health, emotional health, kind of
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: fundamental fifty minutes. But the audience are fifteen years old
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: versus you know, like I did a gigler week shout
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: out to the financial and broke what are they Financial
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: and mortgage brokers of Australia. I did a gig with them.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: So they're all corporates, they're all between thirty and sixty,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: and they're all you know. And so even talking about
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: the same things with a different audience, you automatically have
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: different energy, You automatically have different words, you automatically tell
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: different stories, and you don't really think, oh, these guys
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: aren't fifteen, they're this, so therefore I'll scrub off that
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: story and I won't use that word. And you know,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of meta perception happening organically in real time,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: just like a mom or dad would talk to their
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: three different kids quite differently if they are all different personalities,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: but he or she doesn't need to stop and think,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: how do I talk to him? Which one is this
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: you know, it's just organic and then the moment hance
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: microphone over to tip. All right, let's talk about the
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: last one.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: I wanted to say one thing that popped in. Obviously,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: at some point you might have said this word, or
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: you have in the past, and I would just thought,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: when we're talking about this, you don't often talk about
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: whether or not people care about what people think, And
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I thought, maybe we need to just swap out that
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: word for consider, because it doesn't lean into worrying about
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: it's more thoughtful. It's like, well, if you consider how
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: people perceive you than it is you can do more
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: with that doesn't have that negative connotation.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: That's interesting. Do you want to hear something that's quite
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: counterintuitive and does not seem to make sense. Some people
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: who are really good at reading others, understanding others, understanding
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: how they work, are so they just don't care about
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: the person, but they understand their cognitive, emotional, behavioral, social
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: operating system. And the better they're understanding, the more they
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: can manipulate and influence and control that person, which is
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: why some sociopaths are highly intelligent, charming, charismatic, funny, attractive,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: and we could probably run through a list, but we won't. Yeah,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: so that, yeah, it's not just a skill or a
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: capacity reserved for nice people. It's like it's actually a
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: learnable skill. But I think people are more or less inclined.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: But so that's kind of terrifying.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: That's actually interesting because it makes me think about this
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: whole conversation and how much our emotions get in the
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: way of all of it. So driven by them.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, and our value is what we
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: want to be true. There's been more than ten times
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: in my speaking career where I've been employed by a
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: company to do a gig, either a keynote or a workshop,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: sometimes a whole day where and the reason I'm bought
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: it brought in is, you know, ah, it's just the
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: the atmosphere is not awesome, the cultures not awesome. Few
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: people are a bit sad, he mix ads to they're
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: a bit of discontent. The communications not great, and you know,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: we're not unraveling, but it's not awesome. And you know
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: some of the interpersonal stuff and there's a few office
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: conflicts and personalities and egos and I'm like, yep, got it,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: got it. And then I would meet i would either
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: zoom or I would go and meet with the bus
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: he or she, and I would open this door on
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: you know this stuff, and I would say, what do
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: you think it's like being around you? And they fucking
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: the sociopaths hate it, right because they know where you're going.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: And I've had at least five or six bosses say
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: to me I absolutely do not care. I'm like, and
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: they're talking about their team like, I do not care.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: I do not care how they are. I do not
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: care about what they feel like they're paid to do
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: a job. I'm like, fuck, no, wonder you've got a
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: shit culture. No. And I would say, do you even
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: when I'm feeling cheeky and brave, you know, do you
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: think they like you? Also don't care? Now, even from
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: a business point of view, forget just morality, ethics, humanity, right,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: just from a business point of view, You've done, fucking idiot.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: If people like you, they're gonna want to be in
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: this place, They're going to want to turn up in
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: this organization, and they're going to be what's the word,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: They're going to be loyal to you. They're going to
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: want to connect with you, you know, So Tree Bobby
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: isn't it right.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: Because there's there's a major discrepancy there, Like even if
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: you truly don't care about anybody on your team, investing
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: in them and creating a culture that facility that illicits,
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: I would say is a good word well being is
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: a very good business strategy for so many reasons. I mean,
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: we see plenty of examples of what happens in organizations,
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: but that doesn't occur. So Daniel Coyle and his book
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: The Culture Code, where he synthesized all of his research
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: down to three things that create a high performing culture.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: Number one with psychological safety. Number two is vulnerability, which
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: is not going to emerge without the psychological safety. Number
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: three us purpose. And when you take a look at
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: Project Aristotle, which is a study that Google conductive across
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: the entire organization trying to discern who are the absolute
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: top performing teams and what separates them from merely high
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: performing teams, it was psychological safety of vulnerability. So you know,
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: there's there seems to be a sector of people that
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: are putting out this message that caring about another person's
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: thoughts or welfare in any way, shape or form as
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: a sign of weakness, which is so weird because that
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: is such a weak and emotionally fragile, an overly emotive
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: perspective to have. I remember I had put up a
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: video on YouTube about just basically, don't be an asshole, right,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: create an like open up the possibility that other people's
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: thoughts and opinions have value. So if you're the bully
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: in the room that constantly shuts everyone down in a
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: meeting when their opinions don't align with your idea, you're
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: not a high performer. And this guy was like just like,
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: oh yeah, so you should worry about coddling people because
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: of that. It's like there's so many levels of ineptitude
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: in that. So there's someone who creates a culture where
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: their team doesn't share ideas anymore, doesn't speak up, And
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: in your mind, it's the people on the team that
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: are the problem because they're quote unquote weak, Like, dude,
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: like whatever podcast you're listening to, take a break for
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: a while, Yes, it's not going to help you in
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: your career. It's just so you have this constant messaging
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: And I feel like a lot of are always but
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: today especially we're all in danger of whatever group we
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: sign up for. You know, like whatever team T shirt
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: we're wearing. Yeah, it has a strong influence on what
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: we think and what we feel. And I know that's
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: like a lot of people probably deny that, but there's
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: a lot of examples of how that happens real time.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: You gotta be really careful.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. One I had a funny experience last week that
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: that gig that I did. I had a meeting with
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: the boss, who is great, by the way, not just
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: saying this is I wouldn't bring him up if he
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: wasn't good, dude. And he said to me, because there
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: was people coming from all over Australia, so there's they
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: don't not work for a company. They all work for
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: different like a company. They work for different companies, but
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: they're in that industry. So he's like, ah, just because
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: you know you might have to, people get nervous to
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: ask me to not swear. And I'm like, I'll do
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: within reason whatever you want. You're paying me fucking heaps
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: of dough, it's all right, tell me what you want
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: and don't want, you know. So I said, he said, oh,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: you might have to, you know, and I go the
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: swearing and he goes, yeah, and he was relieved I
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: said it. I said, mate, I will swear not at all.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I go, I won't say one. I won't even say pooh.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, that'd be good that so he
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: was anyway, So I started doing the talk. I'm into
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: it and I'm ten minutes maybe eight minutes in, and
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: I wasn't going to swear, but I was going to
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: say I think I was going to say buggot or
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: something or you know, a swear word, but not not
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: the ones I get in trouble for anyway. And it
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: was just and I went, oh, hang on, I said
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: to the room, hang on, just got to collect myself.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: I was just about to say a word that I've
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: been told I'm not allowed to say by bossing Macbusta
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: over there, right, and I pointed at the boss. And
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: then this lady goes, nah, swear, you go on swear
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: and everyone's like yeah yeah, and I went I thought,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: oh so everyone. I mean, they didn't want me to
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: spend an hour swearing, but they wanted me to just
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: be and if you're going to swear, if that's out, yeah,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: Do that.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: And then I went, I'm still not convinced. And I said,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: all right, there's one hundred ischh of us. If one
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: person doesn't want swearing, and by the way, we won't
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: think you think you're a wet blanket that I'll be
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: absolutely fine. So put up your hand if you would
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: be uncomfortable with swearing in the next fifty minutes, and
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: you'll have complete respect. And not one hand went up,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: and I went, well fuck yeah, let's get going, and
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: they loved it. Right, But it's all about but in
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: another environment with another group, that would not work at all.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: But it's that in the moment a when a situation
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: an awareness, social awareness, that kind of metabceptive ability to
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: be able to read the room somewhat and then go
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: through the door that they have just opened for you, you know.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: So there's that.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Can you give me a referral like, listen, I've got
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: a gay with tarats.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: You'll love this bigger yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You never
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: know what's coming.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Last one, So meta accuracy is just that it's like
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: what it sounds like, so met exception we just spoke about,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: and it's basically how accurately you understand how others see
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: you and it's almost like what they think of you,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: what they actually think of you versus what you think
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: they think of you. The smaller that gap, the more
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: meta accurate you are, the bigger the less accurate. And
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I'm going to which maybe nobody wants, but I'm going
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: to in the next month or so, I'm going to
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: do a podcast on basically the findings of my research,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: like who's more matter accurate and why and what are
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: some of the Oh fuck, I didn't think about that.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: I will tell you that people that often think they're
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: bad at it are better than average, and people who
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: think they're great at it are worse than average. So
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: that's an interesting thing. So I could be shit at
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: it but think I'm great. But yeah, there are so
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: many variables and so many factors that influence how accurately
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: people know this stuff, and the process and the tools
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: that we use to kind of break it down and
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: get some answers. We're really interesting too, So I'll talk
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: about We used one test mine behind the eyes, which
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: is an emotional recognition process, and yeah, that was quite interesting.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: But the whole thing's fascinating over to you too, either
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: of you.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: I want to ask was there a standout trait that
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: was a driver for how accurate or inaccurate based on
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: your research.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: Well, I will share that in my thing, but I
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: will say that here's something funny. Some people are really metaaccurate.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: So there's two kinds of meta accuracy diaddic and generalize.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: So diadic meta accuracy is one on one. So that's
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: how accurate you are with a person, and what I
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: just described about in the gig, like you both do
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: speaking gigs. So when Bobby's lecturing in a corporate space,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: his ability to read the room and understand where he
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: should go or shouldn't go metaphorically or you know, practically
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: with the session, that's group meta accuracy or generalized meta accuracy.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: And some people are real good at diadic and real
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: shit at group. Right. Some people are real good with
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: people they've known for a long while, really accurate, but
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: they're fucking hopeless with new acquaintances and vice versa.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so interesting, isn't it.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, it's like you know, I I would say
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: my level of meta accuracy with my mum and dad
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's about a
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: fucking nine point eight. No such thing as that scale,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: by the way, But then you know, I think my
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: gma generalized meta accuracy is better than it's ever been,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: but I still wouldn't say it's I'd say I'm maybe
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: a six or seven, and this is something I think
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: about a lot, But I would say it used to
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: be a three because I wouldn't even have that kind
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: of I'd be so worried about what I'm saying and
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: worried about what they think of me, and worried about
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: fucking up. I didn't have the emotional or cognitive space
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: to be able to be calm enough and areware enough
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: to read the room. But yeah, so, Bobby.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: I find that interesting statement that you mad about people
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: who think they're good at it tend to be well,
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: not as good as they think. I mean that may
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: apply to most things with most people. The more solidified
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: your thoughts are about anything, the less malleable they are
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: by nature.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Isn't that the Dunning Krueger effect, You know, people who
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: think they're.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: Ace but they're not. Yeah, I mean, but but that,
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: But I mean that it plays into it. It's just
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: it's not even having It's almost like those people who
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: argue with theoretical physicists. Yeah, and I was like, oh, well,
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: if the sun so bright why is the space dark?
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: It's like, oh, okay, well it's a question. So it's
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: like you don't even have the level of knowledge and
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: expertise to comprehend your lack of expertise. So I think
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: there's that. But then there's there's this this dogmatic insistence
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: and sense of certainty that crowds everything else out. I
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: think I think that's a when you look at all
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: of this, I think there's there's curiosity underneath each and
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: every one of these, and curiosity and certainty can't collab
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: it well together.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Uh, Tiff, tell everyone where they can connect.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: With you all the places, mate, Roll with the Punches
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: or tiffcooksorry dot com dot au, tiffcok dot com.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know. On the interweb.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: I'm everywhere though.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: Fuck now, she's the worst saleswoman of all time. She's
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: on Instagram, She's on LinkedIn, She's on Facebook. She's got
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: a podcast called Roll with the Punches. Fucking hell, can
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: you get yourself a pr person? Because your shit, you're
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: shit at it. Bobby is also on LinkedIn, Quite active
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: on LinkedIn, also has a show which is in hiatus
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: at the moment, coming Back.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: We're back, but We're bad. We're two episodes in. We're back.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Fuck, I'm sorry I didn't get the fucking homing pigeon
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: from your joint delivering the news.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: She'll probably start advertising it, like like post about it
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: or something.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: And that is called the self help antidote. Still self,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: it's still the self I've antidote. Great, all right, we'll
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: chat off here. But you two are just fucking terrific.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: It's terrific, Like that's my adjective. You were terrific, and.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: Thanks, so are you. Melissa should be very proud of herself.