Latest / Willow Healing Matters Podcast / Molly Tschang: How to Speak Up, Build Trust & Create Better Workplace Cultures

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Molly Tschang: How to Speak Up, Build Trust & Create Better Workplace Cultures · Willow Healing Matters Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Willow Healing Matters, the podcast.
• 0:04
  We are so excited to have you joining us on this journey where
• 0:07
  we explore different
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: ways to empower your soul,
• 0:10
  whether it's healing in your kitchen or all the way up in the
• 0:14
  corporate world.
• 0:15
  Come with us as we look into different ways to heal your mind,
• 0:18
  body and soul.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: My virtual obsession,
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: my romantic thriller,
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: is now available on Amazon and other online retailers.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: This book explores the intersection of loneliness,
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: love,
• 0:33
  and how chasing perfection through technology can lead to
• 0:36
  fantasy and reality
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: colliding.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: My virtual obsession out now.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody,
• 0:42
  it's Catherine Crestani with another episode of Willow Healing
• 0:45
  Matters and today I
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: am joined by Molly Chang.
• 0:48
  She is the founder and CEO of Abella Consulting and Say It
• 0:51
  Skillfully Inc.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: She empowers senior leadership teams to win as one,
• 0:56
  committing to each other's success and building the chemistry
• 0:58
  needed to lead
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: powerfully together.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: With deep experience in over 80 mergers and acquisitions,
• 1:03
  Molly has guided executives through the complex human side of
• 1:06
  transformational
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: change and growth.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Through her platform,
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Say It Skillfully,
• 1:10
  she equips individuals at all levels with the skills to
• 1:13
  communicate confidently,
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: foster trust,
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: and create cultures where people feel valued and perform at their best.
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  She's also the co-author with legendary CEO coach Marshall
• 1:23
  Goldsmith of the
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  SPEAKER_01: best-selling book,
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  SPEAKER_01: Say It Skillfully,
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Speak Up.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Make Your Words Matter.
• 1:28
  Win Together While most communication and personal development
• 1:31
  books preach playing
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: the game so you win,
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Say It Skillfully shows how
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: how to change the game so performance improves and everyone wins.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: So a big welcome to the show, Molly.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Wonderful to be here with you and your guests, Catherine.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
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  I love the ethos that you take where making sure everybody wins
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  because I know
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  SPEAKER_01: that's such an important shift that we,
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 1:55
  I feel we need to see in workplaces because when you think that
• 1:59
  you're the only one
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  SPEAKER_01: that's playing the game and you're the only one that wins,
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  I know from running companies myself that the morale and the
• 2:06
  motivation to actually
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  work and participate drops because you're not including
• 2:11
  everyone as part of a team.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: But what led you to
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Creating,
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: say,
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  SPEAKER_01: skillfully,
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  SPEAKER_01: but also,
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  I guess the other flip side of that is seeing the need for this
• 2:20
  changing culture in
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: workplaces.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I appreciate your interest in what you stand for, Catherine.
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  SPEAKER_02: And,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: coming through the ranks,
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  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_02: my family came from overseas,
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  SPEAKER_02: and so we never felt like we necessarily totally fit in.
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  SPEAKER_02: in the world.
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  And for me as an introvert and someone who didn't speak English
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  until I was five,
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  I just remember feeling pretty out there and not feeling I
• 2:42
  could be myself,
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  SPEAKER_02: that I could just really speak up,
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  SPEAKER_02: not really even knowing how,
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  SPEAKER_02: which is as you think about all the skills we've
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Crestani willowhealing Willowhealing Willow
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: The men in particular,
• 3:10
  half the men wore the pale yellow Paisley tie and half the men
• 3:14
  wore the red tie.
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  SPEAKER_02: Those were the only two tie colors.
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  And it was not as if a memo went out and said,
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  make sure you only wear the yellow or the red.
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  but there's this real sense when you go into organizations that
• 3:28
  there's this way
• 3:29
  you're supposed to be and it's clearly not how you really are
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  so we all kind of
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  come out and we're like okay we're trying to be who we we know
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  we're not supposed
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  to be ourselves but we're really not sure who we're supposed to
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  be so we're all
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  SPEAKER_02: kind of masquerading around and
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  You know,
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  I make it a little joke of it,
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  but there's a large truth to that.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's just kind of wanting to fit in, which I understand.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I think in the workplace,
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  SPEAKER_02: so much of it,
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  SPEAKER_02: in fact,
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  SPEAKER_02: I had worked with someone once who said,
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  SPEAKER_02: do you realize for 10 years,
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  I have been intentionally trying to tell people what I think
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  they want to hear.
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  and you're telling me I need to tell people what they need to
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  hear in service to
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  SPEAKER_02: the whole,
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  SPEAKER_02: not about making,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: Catherine look amazing and Molly look horrible,
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  SPEAKER_02: but about saying,
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  SPEAKER_02: what do we think is going to really serve the greater good?
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  SPEAKER_02: And so that dynamic, you think about that, oh, you hold back.
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  SPEAKER_02: Who cares?
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  SPEAKER_02: You don't speak up.
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  SPEAKER_02: What's the difference?
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  SPEAKER_02: You say,
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  SPEAKER_02: well,
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  SPEAKER_02: if everyone in the organization is not contributing fully,
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  SPEAKER_02: you are not going to do your best work.
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  SPEAKER_02: The End.
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  SPEAKER_02: And at an individual level,
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  whether you went to Oxford or to some fancy school or to
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  community college,
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  SPEAKER_02: I assure you,
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  you did not work this hard to sit silent on the sidelines and
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  just be a mute.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's not
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  SPEAKER_02: Why People Do It.
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  So you then don't feel great about yourself because you can't
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  contribute to your full potential.
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  SPEAKER_02: And Catherine, that's a bummer, right?
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  SPEAKER_02: So for me,
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  SPEAKER_02: it came full circle because you can see this dynamic,
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  SPEAKER_02: people being thrown under the bus.
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  SPEAKER_02: People aren't even there to defend themselves and they're shot.
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  SPEAKER_02: Well, it must be Catherine's fault.
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  SPEAKER_02: She can't defend herself.
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  SPEAKER_02: We'll just blame her and then we'll all move on.
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  SPEAKER_02: So again,
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  SPEAKER_02: I'm being a little bit cheeky here,
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  SPEAKER_02: but the idea of hearing people,
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  SPEAKER_02: very senior people,
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  SPEAKER_02: in fact,
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  SPEAKER_02: managing director as a firm say,
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  SPEAKER_02: Molly,
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  SPEAKER_02: I can't say that.
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  SPEAKER_02: Thinking, you're like among the top 10 people.
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  SPEAKER_02: If you can't say it, heaven forbid, the people fly levels down.
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  SPEAKER_02: And like I said,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: when you think about this great richness and diversity of people,
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  SPEAKER_02: places,
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  SPEAKER_02: ideas,
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  SPEAKER_02: and experiences,
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  SPEAKER_02: that is how we get to the best answers,
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  SPEAKER_02: right?
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  But if people don't feel like they can speak up and really
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  share what they think,
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  SPEAKER_02: you're absolutely shooting yourself in the foot.
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  SPEAKER_02: So you're not really able to harness the full diversity.
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  SPEAKER_02: Payroll is the CEO's biggest expense in
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  SPEAKER_02: They should be mad because you're not getting full value.
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  SPEAKER_02: Not because people aren't working hard,
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  but because they don't feel they can or they're not equipped to
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  actually put it out
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  SPEAKER_02: there in a way to communicate in a way and heard the way they intend.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so I just think it's the most game-changing skill.
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  SPEAKER_02: When you can speak up with what you think needs to be said,
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  SPEAKER_02: be heard the way you intend,
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  SPEAKER_02: in service to the whole,
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  SPEAKER_02: you can do what you think is right to the best of your ability.
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  SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
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  SPEAKER_02: You sleep well at night.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_01: because you're not sitting there going,
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  SPEAKER_01: oh,
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  SPEAKER_01: should I have said that in that meeting today?
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  SPEAKER_01: Should I have, you know, done this instead?
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  SPEAKER_01: And then we're not kept up by the shoulda, coulda, wouldas, right?
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  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
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  You know,
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  it's a very,
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  you know,
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  and I say to folks,
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  you know,
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  people work hard.
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  SPEAKER_02: Whatever you did in school,
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  if you went to vocational school or you went to the military or
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  what have you,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: your ability to contribute is based on how do you use your voice?
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  SPEAKER_02: And can you do so with
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  with clarity can you do it with compassion for others but can
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  you do it with
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  confidence and that is a skill it's not something we're born
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  out of the womb with I
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  am living proof because I couldn't speak English painfully shy
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  so unskillful so
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  unskillful so it's a hundred percent learnable yeah and I guess
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  too it's like that
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  little bit of courage as well that comes with the confidence
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  like the courage to to
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  speak up and I always talk about that that's a that's a learned
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  skill as well we're
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  SPEAKER_01: not born brave you
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  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you come into this world going,
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm so brave and I'm going to speak my truth no matter what.
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  SPEAKER_01: You have to learn how to do that.
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  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
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  SPEAKER_02: You bring up a really great point about the courage,
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  SPEAKER_02: but you know when you know why you're speaking up,
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  SPEAKER_02: because I'm here to help the organization do its best work.
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  SPEAKER_02: I'm here to help us all succeed wildly together.
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  SPEAKER_01: If you know why you want to speak up,
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  SPEAKER_02: Not,
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  SPEAKER_02: oh,
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  I'm going to speak up so Molly looks so amazing and Catherine
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  looks like she,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know what I'm saying?
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  So much of it gets very win-lose to your earlier comment about
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  can we win together?
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  SPEAKER_02: And that's really,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: what we want,
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  SPEAKER_02: create a world where people can really all for one,
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  SPEAKER_02: one for all.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I don't mean that to be,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: unicorns and rainbows of people who've been on a sports team.
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  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the top performing sports teams play the game for each other.
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  they're not about the individual they're about the whole yeah
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  and then they've got
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  that more collaborative environment right because and I feel
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  this is where
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  sometimes people miss that it's like if you have a company
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  every person there is
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  contributing to your brand or your company or however it is
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  showing up and if
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  they're not being supported it's kind of reflecting back to you
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  so if you're not
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  SPEAKER_01: helping them at the yeah
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I used to, but I went the other extreme, Molly.
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  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to do,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  read all the reports and make sure everything's okay and
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  everything has to come
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  SPEAKER_01: through me,
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  which is not a healthy way to be either because you have to
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  find that trust with
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  SPEAKER_01: your team too.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so this is the thing for the leaders out there.
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  SPEAKER_02: We all have blind spots.
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  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
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  we don't have time for all the mortifying things that I have
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  done through my career
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  SPEAKER_02: that were bad or wrong and really not helpful.
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  SPEAKER_02: But those were part of Molly's journey.
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  SPEAKER_02: Am I going to let those be boat anchors?
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  SPEAKER_02: Are I going to learn from them, not repeat the same mistake over?
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  SPEAKER_02: And we need our other people to tell us what they really think.
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  SPEAKER_02: And if we don't create the environment,
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  SPEAKER_02: especially from senior,
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  SPEAKER_02: when there's a power dynamic to say,
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  SPEAKER_02: hey,
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  SPEAKER_02: I really value what you're sharing.
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  SPEAKER_02: What are you seeing?
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  SPEAKER_02: What are you hearing?
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  SPEAKER_02: Tell me something you don't think I want to hear.
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  SPEAKER_02: And that's the true test of trust.
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  And then when you create this,
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  you know,
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  in the organization,
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  they call it people first.
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  SPEAKER_02: If you truly value people, and I understand that may be a minority.
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  SPEAKER_02: If you truly value people, speaking up is not optional.
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  SPEAKER_02: It is a shared responsibility in service to better decisions,
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  SPEAKER_02: stronger cultures,
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  SPEAKER_02: and the greater good.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's imperative that everyone use their voice.
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  SPEAKER_02: And when people start to realize,
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  SPEAKER_02: because I was quiet,
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  SPEAKER_02: I was at that quiet engineer sitting in the corner.
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  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, you're not helping the organization if you don't speak up.
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  SPEAKER_02: Now there's a downside.
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  SPEAKER_02: And what I would call that affectionately is you're part of the problem.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's easy to blame everyone else.
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  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, they're not this.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, what are you doing?
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  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're not calling it out,
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: if you're not helping people see openly with transparency,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: that there's a dynamic going on that's not serving the whole,
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  SPEAKER_01: guess what?
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  SPEAKER_01: Look in the mirror.
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  SPEAKER_01: I have such a simple example,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: and it's not even like a border and more like company example,
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  SPEAKER_01: which is if you walk past rubbish and
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  SPEAKER_01: and you don't pick it up.
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  SPEAKER_01: What's to say that anyone else is going to pick it up?
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  SPEAKER_01: And you think someone should pick up that rubbish.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Why can't it be you?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Why can't it be you that picks that rubbish up?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: That is exactly it.
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  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I think it's very easy and I have done it.
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  SPEAKER_02: So as I can say this by calling the kettle black, they don't get it.
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  SPEAKER_02: Whenever you hear that, they don't get it.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: They're that dumb.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: They don't get it.
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  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe, just maybe Molly wasn't as clear as she thought she was.
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  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that was a factor.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Possibly, right?
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  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it takes, you know, it takes a good chunk of humility.
• 10:55
  to,
• 10:56
  especially as a leader,
• 10:57
  to kind of consider,
• 10:58
  you know,
• 10:59
  it's so obvious to you,
• 11:00
  right?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: I can't believe, you know, the team's underperforming.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they didn't really understand the assignment.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they're not equipped.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe you just hired bad people.
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  SPEAKER_02: Oh, guess whose fault that is, right?
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  And so I think that idea,
• 11:16
  we're all in it together,
• 11:18
  is a really,
• 11:19
  really powerful notion of
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: to have at work.
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  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, those environments, I mean, I cherish my work experiences.
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  SPEAKER_02: I really had fabulous experiences.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I really want, particularly our young people, to feel that.
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  SPEAKER_02: You know, it was great.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And around the world,
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: in America particularly,
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  SPEAKER_02: I think people would kill to have some of the jobs we have.
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  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a privilege to have great work.
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  so you know I want to help people realize when there's a
• 11:43
  culture you're part of
• 11:45
  that culture and you are either adding or you're detracting to
• 11:49
  it and there are
• 11:50
  days when Molly's not her best self so I'm probably not really
• 11:53
  adding as much as I
• 11:54
  would like and that's okay but net positive you want to be
• 11:57
  adding you want to be
• 11:58
  adding to a culture and that's not all of us exactly and it's
• 12:01
  almost that shared
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: responsibility because you know
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: We can't do it alone.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I know, I've been there.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: You end up in burnout and all those fun things.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do it alone.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, don't do it alone.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it takes you learning that.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that's your journey.
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  And I don't wish you that pain and suffering because I know it
• 12:19
  was pain and suffering.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you're better for it.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it's like when you know better, you choose to do better.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's been my saying the last few days, right?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good one.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I feel to ask, Molly...
• 12:31
  What are the shifts that you've seen through working with
• 12:33
  different leaders and
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: changing the culture of workplaces?
• 12:36
  What have been some of the really cool shifts that you've seen
• 12:38
  in terms of output
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: or even just people in general?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: the coolest thing is when people have,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: and I've experienced it myself,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: you kind of have that epiphany,
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: This actually is a lot easier than it might look.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can just kind of swallow some humility and think about,
• 12:58
  and I wrote the book for this reason because it's not about
• 13:01
  saying exactly the
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: right words perfectly said,
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: How you deliver absolutely matters.
• 13:07
  But saying it skillfully is more about the mindset shift and a
• 13:11
  structure that you
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: can apply that anyone can apply to kind of
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Take the edge off of tough conversations.
• 13:18
  And that's the thing that I am so excited about is like when
• 13:22
  people realize you
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: equip them with a tool and they're like,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: wait a second,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: I can say that.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that hard.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, it's not that hard.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Think about the feedback.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is one of the things that cracks me up,
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: especially for managers,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: because your job is to develop your people.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: But the number of people, they don't want to give the feedback.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Feedback is a gift.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: You are helping someone to grow.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how fabulous is that?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I get it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: That framework is actually me, you, we.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: So the me is I have anxiety.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: They might feel that like, wait a second, is this about me?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Or is this about
• 13:57
  helping Catherine spread her wings and fly because I want to be
• 14:00
  about her.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: And am I worried?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: What am I worried about?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm worried that I'm trying to help her?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, is that legit?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: She's going to be so happy that I care enough to help her, right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then in Catherine's shoes,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: She may not even know this is going on.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: For God's sake, she can't correct something she doesn't know about.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: And we all have blind spots.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: We need people to care enough to tell us about the blind spots, right?
• 14:22
  And so when you deliver feedback,
• 14:24
  then Catherine can best serve the whole.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: She can be supporting the organization in even bigger and better ways.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a mindset that's like, here, I'm here to serve.
• 14:33
  I'm here to partner with someone on your team to help them be
• 14:37
  better versus I'm
• 14:38
  here to tell them how badly they did and how horrible of a
• 14:41
  person they are.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, really?
• 14:43
  So,
• 14:43
  you know,
• 14:43
  I think that the shift is how empowering it is when people
• 14:49
  realize I matter.
• 14:51
  Making my words matter is the only way that people are going to
• 14:54
  have any idea of
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: how much value I can contribute.
• 14:57
  And so I just want to encourage folks that this is the number
• 14:59
  one skill to improve
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: your life and everyone's around you.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I had a coach and he said to me, Amira can't see herself.
• 15:07
  And I think that's a very nice summary of why we can't see our
• 15:11
  own blocks.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because you need another perspective sometimes.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: You need to step away from it.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Or because if you're in it, it's hard.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's normal.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: It is normal.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's totally normal, people.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's totally normal.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Making mistakes.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Totally normal.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Making mistakes is the path to success.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: It just is.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's tough because also in the grand scheme of things,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: you don't get an A on a test if you get everything wrong,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a balancing act.
• 15:41
  But the fact of the matter is that everything's about tennis,
• 15:44
  Catherine,
• 15:44
  people who know.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And Roger Federer is one of my idols.
• 15:47
  And of the 1,251 matches that Roger played,
• 15:48
  he won only 54% of the points.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: 46%.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: You quote, he failed, he made mistakes.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: One of the greatest of all time is showing us that it is our mistakes,
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: those learning moments that are our path to our greatest success.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so the opportunity is how do we react when that happens?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying we're dying to make them,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: but we want to make the right mistakes because that is how we grow.
• 16:16
  Yeah if you don't if you don't ever fail how do you learn and
• 16:19
  spread right and I
• 16:20
  love the Roger Federer statistics I'm like wow that's
• 16:23
  impressive it's like my
• 16:24
  favorite one is Thomas Edison had over a thousand patents but
• 16:27
  only one took off
• 16:29
  which was the light bulb right so and if you know my favorite
• 16:33
  quote is the Wayne
• 16:34
  Gretzky one which is you miss 100% of the shots you don't take
• 16:38
  because if you don't
• 16:39
  try if you're afraid of that failure you're never going to know
• 16:43
  what it's like to
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: experience it or go through that
• 16:46
  And it's sometimes in our failures that we can find the
• 16:48
  greatest gifts as well,
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: that we can find,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: actually,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: I hated doing that,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: but I really like this part of that and I want to go do that.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then you build something new and see where it evolves.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you bring up something that I want to call out for people.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's really important because our system,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: so for instance,
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: you have parents and you have kids and they fall off their bike.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: Do you start panicking and running over?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Are you okay?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you like, ha, ha, ha, it's fine because
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: That normalizes, if you will, the mistake.
• 17:20
  Now,
• 17:20
  obviously,
• 17:20
  we don't want,
• 17:21
  you know,
• 17:21
  really ones that people can really hurt.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want the career-limiting kinds of mistakes.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: But how we respond, how the system responds is something we can control.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so when a leader says, you know,
• 17:33
  I'm sorry that that was a miss we kind of placed the wrong bet
• 17:36
  but we learned a lot
• 17:37
  and I want to encourage people to keep doing that because
• 17:39
  that's how we're going to
• 17:39
  do our best work for the leader who says that versus how that
• 17:43
  happened right and
• 17:44
  starts to snap at people when something didn't go quite right
• 17:46
  that is the complete
• 17:48
  kiss of death because someone who's like when someone tries to
• 17:52
  do something
• 17:52
  innovative following the directions of fail fast if you will
• 17:56
  and then gets hammered
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: for failing fast
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: The message is very clear that we don't really want to innovate here.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Failure is not tolerated.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to encourage folks that,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think the leaders that I work with really do want to know the truth.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: They really realize they have blind spots,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: but they do sometimes need to be pulled aside in a kind,
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: compassionate way to say,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: hey,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: can we go through that again?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm wondering what you were thinking.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure that landed how you thought.
• 18:22
  And I want to make sure that we're on the same page because I
• 18:25
  know you care a lot.
• 18:26
  and you're working really hard and I want everything that you
• 18:28
  do to really support the team.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Different energy, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Completely different energy and reframe.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess it's that compassion and having that for ourselves as well.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and remembering that
• 18:45
  you don't like you said Molly doesn't have a perfect day every
• 18:48
  day and some days
• 18:49
  you're showing up 100% of your 20% and that's okay too yeah
• 18:53
  yeah and I think it is
• 18:54
  showing giving ourselves grace and not being so hard on
• 18:57
  ourselves I think high
• 18:59
  stereotypically high performers high achievers are very hard on
• 19:03
  themselves too and
• 19:04
  you know I think for some people you know really you be having
• 19:08
  harsh inner talk may
• 19:09
  be the way that really unleashes your greatest potential I
• 19:12
  think for a lot of
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: people it's not
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that was a learning for me too.
• 19:18
  You kind of feel like I got to keep beating myself with a
• 19:19
  stick,
• 19:20
  right,
• 19:20
  to get better.
• 19:21
  And I think that there's a medium there that can be a little
• 19:25
  bit more kind to ourselves.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:28
  And it's really interesting because I've had some clients call
• 19:31
  through lately and
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: connect with and they're like,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: why are they doing this?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're bosses.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well...
• 19:39
  like they're kind of just stuck in their show I said they're
• 19:43
  not realizing that
• 19:44
  it's impacting you and this one particular client I have you
• 19:48
  know she goes am I
• 19:49
  going to lose my job and I have like psychic skills and I'm
• 19:52
  like no your job is
• 19:53
  safe I said she you're on her radar but not even because she's
• 19:57
  too busy blowing up
• 19:58
  the world around her and dismantling the teams not trying to do
• 20:01
  it all herself so
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know that's one side of it and then I had another one
• 20:05
  and they're like but they're just so negative to me all the
• 20:08
  time like why are they
• 20:09
  like that I was like again you know they're not seeing that
• 20:13
  that's a problem like
• 20:14
  you said they're not actually having that reflected back that
• 20:17
  that's an issue and
• 20:18
  then all of a sudden it blows up into HR problems and
• 20:21
  everything like that because
• 20:23
  no one's reflected anything back or experienced like how do I
• 20:28
  get my needs met
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: right in this moment because there's not a win-win-win yeah and I yeah
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have empathy.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't condone the behavior, but I've done it.
• 20:37
  And so if someone doesn't care enough to say,
• 20:39
  hey,
• 20:39
  can we talk about that?
• 20:41
  And if you can't go to your boss and say,
• 20:44
  hey,
• 20:44
  I'd love to have an open-hearted conversation.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: I want to do my absolute best work here.
• 20:49
  And I want to chat with you about how we can create that
• 20:53
  environment for me.
• 20:54
  And when this happens or when that happens,
• 20:56
  I'm noticing this and I'm wondering what's going on.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: So many times we think it's so obvious.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: because it's so obvious to you, but it's not so obvious to someone else.
• 21:06
  And that ability to raise the topic without kind of pointing
• 21:10
  fingers and making bad
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: or good,
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: but on trying to surface it,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: to have someone appreciate what your experience is,
• 21:18
  for you to make the effort to be curious and appreciate what
• 21:21
  someone else's
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: experience is like.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's how we connect, right?
• 21:25
  And when we connect as human beings,
• 21:26
  that opens the door to effective communication.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that is on all of us, folks.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Ideally,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: you would have bosses,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: managers be the ones who initiate,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: but sometimes they're not really trained.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: They don't really know how.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: They're caught in a tough place.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: So our opportunity is to go there and saying,
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: hey,
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: I really think this is important,
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: because I want to make you super successful.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: I want to make our team successful.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: And folks, if it's not great, you have a choice.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you're going to work your butts off and do everything you can,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: make it a place that it's worth it.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a very individual thing.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not taking light of the fact that people need jobs.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's not necessarily so easy.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: But you know,
• 22:07
  when you find people who are kind of living the dream and
• 22:10
  they're making it work,
• 22:11
  they've done a lot of work to get to those places and to create
• 22:15
  the environments
• 22:16
  and to create their relationship with their peers and their
• 22:19
  managers to make it
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: awesome.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: too,
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: it's,
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:24
  sometimes when we just take a job for the sake because we
• 22:27
  desperately need a job,
• 22:28
  We can end up in these situations where it's not very aligned
• 22:33
  with how we want to
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: show up or how we want to work.
• 22:36
  And I always say to my clients,
• 22:39
  I'm like,
• 22:40
  okay,
• 22:40
  well,
• 22:41
  you need the money at the moment.
• 22:43
  Yes okay well why can't you apply for other jobs whilst you're
• 22:46
  still working this
• 22:47
  job you know again perspective shifts I can do that it's like
• 22:51
  yes you can do that
• 22:52
  you know it's not fixated and if you've I guess if you've gone
• 22:56
  through say it
• 22:56
  skillfully skill sets right and actually shared what you needed
• 23:00
  and given that
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: feedback and nothing's changed
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to stay.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: You always have the ability to change as well.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a sense of just,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: you have to,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: in your own way,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: be whole with how much you value yourself.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it does come down to that,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: and sometimes people,
• 23:19
  I'm not saying you shouldn't put up with some stuff because you
• 23:20
  have to put up with
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: it,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: but over the long haul,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: it's really not the right environment.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have to trash them.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: We can just say it's really not a good fit.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: for how you want to work and what you want to do.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you need to go to a place where you can contribute fully.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's a very personal choice.
• 23:38
  And I think I want to empower people to say,
• 23:40
  hey,
• 23:40
  you can create opportunities.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: There are great places to work.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: There are great managers to work for.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: There really are.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: It might take a little bit of work to find them,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: but when you really know what you're looking for,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think you can then be very intentional about it.
• 23:55
  yeah I think you bring up another important point which is know
• 23:58
  what you want
• 23:58
  because and what you need because you know I people have told
• 24:03
  me sometimes we need
• 24:04
  to tell people in our life how to love us on what we need to be
• 24:07
  loved it's the same
• 24:09
  in the workplace what do we need to be nurtured and loved in
• 24:12
  the workplace I'm not
• 24:13
  talking romance love I'm talking actually like you know seeing
• 24:17
  for who we all value
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: and seeing and how you can add that potential but
• 24:22
  we don't always know we're not mind readers sometimes they can
• 24:25
  but not all the time
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: right but you know this is where
• 24:29
  You need to speak the truth because we don't know what's going
• 24:32
  on in your head.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the positive intention is,
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: hey,
• 24:35
  people want to create the place that's going to help me do my
• 24:38
  best work because
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: that's how we're all going to be most successful.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so you have to show the respect for your colleagues,
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: for your manager,
• 24:45
  those around you that they really do want to create a great
• 24:49
  environment for you,
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: but they can't make it up.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: So they need your help to flesh out what it is.
• 24:56
  Exactly it's like I don't know you want a shared lunch break
• 25:01
  unless you tell me
• 25:02
  that you all want a shared lunch break I don't I didn't know
• 25:05
  you wanted that you
• 25:05
  just had to tell me that and I'll make it happen done starting
• 25:09
  from two weeks from
• 25:09
  now we'll make it happen and they're like really I'm like yes
• 25:12
  it won't be like you
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: know give me some time I have to move clients and
• 25:17
  but we can do it and they're like really it's like yeah I
• 25:21
  didn't know you just had
• 25:22
  to tell me so yeah it's interesting it's interesting and as we
• 25:26
  start to finish our
• 25:27
  time together Molly I asked the guests that come on the show if
• 25:30
  you could heal or
• 25:32
  change something in the world what would it be I want to heal
• 25:35
  that everyone
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: realizes they matter
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: You matter, right?
• 25:39
  To different degrees,
• 25:40
  you have different expertise,
• 25:41
  but every single person matters.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: And how you use your voice,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: how you learn to speak up,
• 25:47
  to say what you think needs to be said in a way that's true to
• 25:50
  yourself is
• 25:51
  something that I think can really help people be in great
• 25:53
  relationship with
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: themselves first and foremost,
• 25:55
  which is then what opens the door to having wonderful
• 25:58
  relationships with those
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: around us.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I really believe, folks, that you do matter.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then making your words matter,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: learning to speak up with clarity,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: with compassion,
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: with confidence.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: If you can do that,
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: it really is a superpower in how you can,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: help do your best work,
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: but also,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: live a really rewarding life.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I want for folks.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, beautiful.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Molly.
• 26:23
  And if people want to come connect with you or find a book or
• 26:27
  just are curious,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: how could they come find you?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 26:31
  I would love folks to visit Say It Skillfully,
• 26:35
  all one word,
• 26:36
  sayitskillfully.com.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: The link to the book is there.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: I have a Say It Skillfully one-on-one training program that's available.
• 26:44
  And if you go to sayitskillfully.com slash gift for the folks
• 26:48
  who are tuning into
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: your podcast,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: you can download a free mini audio book.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's a 12-minute podcast.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: Read of the Me,
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: You,
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: We framework,
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: which is really the core of how you can learn how to use your voice.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love for you to check it out.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I would love to hear from you.
• 27:04
  And if you have tough conversations,
• 27:05
  I have a newsletter,
• 27:06
  lots of tips and techniques.
• 27:07
  I'm happy to do scenarios and hopefully make it what's hard to
• 27:11
  say a bit easier for you.
• 27:14
  Sometimes it's nice to read examples of how other people have
• 27:17
  handled situations,
• 27:18
  right?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: And go, I could say it too.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: I could do that too.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: I just want people to know it really is easier than you think.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: It really is easier than you think.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: So just go there.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to have courage for a whole week.
• 27:32
  You have courage to have maybe starting a conversation and
• 27:36
  don't be surprised when
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: it goes better than you think.
• 27:39
  yeah I love that that's beautiful and I'll make sure to put all
• 27:42
  those details in
• 27:42
  the show notes especially the link to the free audiobooks thank
• 27:46
  you Molly for
• 27:47
  sharing that perspective I so agree with you that we do all
• 27:50
  matter and learning how
• 27:51
  to use your voice to express what you need in this world is
• 27:55
  such a powerful
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: powerful tool
• 27:57
  and to anyone who is listening if you enjoyed this episode
• 28:00
  please feel free to like
• 28:01
  share or subscribe or if you're curious about Molly's work
• 28:04
  obviously everything's
• 28:05
  in the show notes so feel free to go have a look at it you
• 28:08
  never know how sharing
• 28:09
  something that you've been seeing happening in your workplace
• 28:12
  or something you want
• 28:13
  to share could change the trajectory of how you show up so
• 28:17
  thank you Molly so much
• 28:18
  for sharing your skill set and also for being who you are thank
• 28:22
  you thank you it's
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: been a pleasure
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hey beautiful souls,
• 28:25
  I wanted to have a chat with you about a really amazing cacao
• 28:29
  that I drink to help
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: me get in ceremony,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: to help me ground,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: but also just because it tastes freaking good.
• 28:35
  So if you're curious and want to know about drinking something
• 28:38
  other than coffee or
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: your standard tea,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: why not check out Creation Cacao?
• 28:44
  I love this with a bit of honey and cinnamon sprinkled in and
• 28:49
  just letting it brew
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: and having that whole intention as you create this cup.
• 28:53
  So if you're curious about,
• 28:55
  want to know more,
• 28:56
  check out the link in the show notes and enjoy.
• 29:00
  your cup of cacao thank you for listening to Willow Healing
• 29:03
  Matters the podcast we
• 29:04
  have so much love and gratitude that you are taking the time
• 29:07
  out of your day to
• 29:08
  empower you on your healing journey the view shared by the
• 29:12
  person being interviewed
• 29:14
  might not necessarily reflect that of the host and should be
• 29:16
  used at your own
• 29:17
  discernment trust what resonates with you and follow your heart
• 29:21
  and soul guidance
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: if you have any underlying medical conditions or mental health
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: This can be found in the show notes.
• 29:27
  Remember to activate,
• 29:28
  align,
• 29:28
  heal,
• 29:29
  empower and find love in everything that you do.