Latest / The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson / Dems & Media Urge Biden to Issue Far-Reaching Pardons of EVERYBODY-Entire Biden Family & Senior Biden Officials

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Dems & Media Urge Biden to Issue Far-Reaching Pardons of EVERYBODY-Entire Biden Family & Senior Biden Officials · The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome.
0:01
Speaker 2: It is verdic with Center, Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with
0:04
Speaker 2: you and Cenator. This might be one of the craziest
0:07
Speaker 2: stories that I've seen in a while. The media and
0:12
Speaker 2: Democrats are now urging the White House to pardon a
0:17
Speaker 2: list that they're putting together. They're claiming that it's Trump
0:22
Speaker 2: so ledged enemies lists, but it's not. It's their list
0:26
Speaker 2: of people they're afraid might get in trouble with the law.
0:29
Speaker 1: And this is shocking.
0:30
Speaker 3: Well, the fallout from Joe Biden's pardon of Hunter Biden continues.
0:34
Speaker 3: One of the things we saw this week is the
0:37
Speaker 3: federal judge overseeing the criminal tax case against Hunter Biden
0:40
Speaker 3: slammed President Joe Biden for his incredibly dishonest press statement
0:46
Speaker 3: that accompanied the pardon and laid out that it is
0:50
Speaker 3: completely false and dishonest. We're going to talk about that,
0:53
Speaker 3: and then we're going to talk about what you just
0:55
Speaker 3: mentioned that we are seeing a full on lobbying effort
0:59
Speaker 3: by Democrats and by the corporate media. They want Joe
1:04
Speaker 3: Biden to pardon everyone. They want him to issue blanket
1:08
Speaker 3: pardons across the board. It is an incredibly open, brazen
1:13
Speaker 3: invitation for Joe Biden to abuse his power, for him
1:17
Speaker 3: to continue the weaponization of law enforcement. You know, they're
1:22
Speaker 3: two components to weaponization. One is targeting your enemies, but
1:26
Speaker 3: the other is protecting your friends. And the corporate media
1:29
Speaker 3: is being quite open that they want Joe Biden on
1:32
Speaker 3: his way out to protect all of his friends in
1:35
Speaker 3: a way that would be not only utterly corrupt, but
1:38
Speaker 3: without precedent in our nation's history. We're going to break
1:41
Speaker 3: that down in detail.
1:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's truly incredible, and the list is one with
1:46
Speaker 2: some very very interesting names on it. I want to
1:49
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3:50
Speaker 2: So this all manifested out of the Hunter Biden pardon.
3:56
Speaker 2: It was such a broad pardon over a decade, for
4:01
Speaker 2: a multitude of sins. It started right when he started
4:05
Speaker 2: working for Barisma in Ukraine, if you want to timestamp
4:08
Speaker 2: this all the way up until basically now, and Democrats
4:13
Speaker 2: and the media are saying, Okay, that's not enough. They
4:18
Speaker 2: also seem to be wanting to give cover to Joe
4:21
Speaker 2: Biden to pardon everyone with the last name Biden and
4:26
Speaker 2: also give himself a pardon, which there's some issues with
4:30
Speaker 2: the law there. I want you to dive into that obviously,
4:32
Speaker 2: But are you shocked by how quick they're throwing out
4:35
Speaker 2: names of who they're worried about.
4:38
Speaker 3: Look, I think they are panicking. I think they are
4:41
Speaker 3: terrified about the incoming Department of Justice, about the incoming
4:45
Speaker 3: leadership of the FBI. They're terrified about Pam Bondy as
4:48
Speaker 3: Attorney General, They're terrified about Cash Battel as the director
4:52
Speaker 3: of the FBI, and they're scrambling to seek cover. You know,
4:57
Speaker 3: I will say the Hunter Biden pardon it is something
5:02
Speaker 3: that on this podcast we predicted a year ago. In
5:05
Speaker 3: January of this year, we predicted that Joe Biden would
5:09
Speaker 3: pardon Hunter Biden, and in fact we predicted that it
5:12
Speaker 3: was going to be in December of twenty twenty four. Well,
5:15
Speaker 3: as it so happened, it was December first that Joe
5:18
Speaker 3: Biden issued the pardon. He did it after spending an
5:22
Speaker 3: entire year lying about it over and over and over again,
5:25
Speaker 3: saying he would not pardon Hunter.
5:27
Speaker 4: He would not pardon Hunter.
5:28
Speaker 3: Kareem Jean Pierre, the White House Press Secretary, repeatedly just
5:32
Speaker 3: flat out lied. Multiple Democrats went on TV and flat
5:35
Speaker 3: out lied. The media flat out lied, and Ben We
5:39
Speaker 3: analyzed this in depth in Monday's podcast And by the way,
5:42
Speaker 3: if you didn't listen to Monday's podcasts, I'd encourage you
5:44
Speaker 3: to go back and listen to it.
5:46
Speaker 4: It was one of our most downloaded podcasts.
5:49
Speaker 3: We've ever done, because it really it breaks down how
5:52
Speaker 3: this was an absolute abuse of power, and it was
5:57
Speaker 3: also completely predictable. When Joe was saying, I'm not going
6:01
Speaker 3: to pardon Hunter, he was lying. Everybody knew he was lying.
6:06
Speaker 3: He knew he was lying, The people listening to him
6:08
Speaker 3: knew he was lying, the reporters knew he was lying.
6:11
Speaker 3: Kreean Jean Pierre knew he was lying. The Democrat senators
6:14
Speaker 3: who echoed those claims knew he was lying. And yet
6:16
Speaker 3: they were perfectly willing to lie as a political matter.
6:21
Speaker 2: And by the way, it even came out since we
6:22
Speaker 2: did the last show, reporting now from NBC News, and
6:27
Speaker 2: it was also reported by the New York Times that
6:32
Speaker 2: they were lying and planning for this pardon all the
6:35
Speaker 2: way back in June. And of course they were sources,
6:38
Speaker 2: but I mean they were going on TV, including the media,
6:42
Speaker 2: which is state sponsored media, when they're doing this, lying
6:46
Speaker 2: deliberately the American people knowing that they were already planning
6:49
Speaker 2: for this well.
6:50
Speaker 3: And it was in June of this year that I
6:52
Speaker 3: said on this podcast, the odds that Joe Biden will
6:57
Speaker 3: parter pardon Hunter Biden are one one hundred percent. It
7:01
Speaker 3: is absolutely certain he is lying, and everyone knows he's lying.
7:05
Speaker 4: Now they're quite open about oh yeah, we lied about it.
7:07
Speaker 4: Of course we did.
7:07
Speaker 3: And they're just trying to say, well, he's just being
7:10
Speaker 3: a dad. Every dad loves his son. Wouldn't you do this?
7:13
Speaker 3: And let's be clear, Number one, every dad would not
7:17
Speaker 3: lie to the American people for a year about it.
7:19
Speaker 3: If you were going to do it, then then you
7:21
Speaker 3: shouldn't lie about it. But number two, this is about
7:25
Speaker 3: protecting Joe. This is about protecting his own corruption. And
7:29
Speaker 3: I got to say, all right, So the federal judge
7:31
Speaker 3: who's overseeing the criminal tax case, Judge Mark Scarcy in California,
7:37
Speaker 3: slammed Joe Biden for his statement on the pardon, and
7:40
Speaker 3: I got to say the judge's comments, I've never seen
7:44
Speaker 3: anything like this. In my twenty plus years of practicing law.
7:49
Speaker 3: I've never seen anything remotely like this. Let me read
7:53
Speaker 3: to you from the judge's opinion that was issued. For example,
8:00
Speaker 3: the President asserts mister Biden quote was treated differently from
8:04
Speaker 3: others quote who were late paying their taxes because of
8:07
Speaker 3: serious addictions, implying that mister Biden was among those individuals
8:12
Speaker 3: who untimely paid taxes due to addiction, but he is not.
8:17
Speaker 3: In his pre trial filings, mister Biden represented that he
8:20
Speaker 3: quote was severely addicted to alcohol and drugs through May
8:25
Speaker 3: of twenty nineteen. Upon pleading guilty to the charges in
8:29
Speaker 3: this case, mister Biden admitted that he engaged in tax
8:32
Speaker 3: evasion after this period of addiction by wrongfully deducting his
8:38
Speaker 3: business expenses items he knew were personal expenses, including luxury clothing,
8:46
Speaker 3: escort services, and his daughter's law school tuition. And mister
8:52
Speaker 3: Biden admitted that he quote had sufficient funds available to
8:55
Speaker 3: him to pay some or all of his outstanding taxes
8:58
Speaker 3: when they were due, but that he did not make
9:01
Speaker 3: payments towards his tax liabilities even quote well after he
9:06
Speaker 3: had regained his sobriety, instead electing to quote spend large
9:13
Speaker 3: sums to maintain his lifestyle in twenty twenty. By the way,
9:17
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty, that would be when his father, Joe Biden,
9:20
Speaker 3: was running for president. According to the President. This is
9:24
Speaker 3: going back to Joe Biden's press release that accompanied the pardon. Quote,
9:29
Speaker 3: no reasonable person who looks at the facts of mister
9:32
Speaker 3: Biden's case can reach any other conclusion than mister Biden
9:37
Speaker 3: was singled out only because he is the president's son
9:42
Speaker 3: end quote. But two federal judges expressly rejected mister Biden's
9:49
Speaker 3: arguments that the government prosecuted mister Biden because of his
9:53
Speaker 3: familiar relation to the president and the president's own attorney
9:59
Speaker 3: general and Department of Justice personnel oversaw the investigation leading
10:05
Speaker 3: to the charges. In the President's estimation, this legion of
10:11
Speaker 3: civil servants the undersigned included are unreasonable people. In short,
10:20
Speaker 3: a press release is not a pardon. The Constitution provides
10:24
Speaker 3: the president with broad authority to grant reprieves and pardons
10:27
Speaker 3: for offenses against the United States, but nowhere does the
10:31
Speaker 3: constitution give the president the authority to rewrite history. I
10:37
Speaker 3: gotta say, Ben, I've never seen a federal judge take
10:41
Speaker 3: the bark off the sitting president of the United States
10:43
Speaker 3: the way that judge did. He just said, Joe Biden
10:46
Speaker 3: is flat out lying, and he is dishonest. And I
10:49
Speaker 3: gotta say the judge is exactly right. Every word of
10:51
Speaker 3: that opinion is absolutely right. And Joe Biden again, understand
10:56
Speaker 3: for a year when he said he wasn't going to
10:58
Speaker 3: pardon his son he was lying, and understand today when
11:02
Speaker 3: he issued the pardon, Joe Biden is still lying. And
11:06
Speaker 3: that's what the federal judge just said unequivocally.
11:09
Speaker 2: And they seem to just be laughing in the face
11:11
Speaker 2: of justice and laughing in the face of Americans by
11:15
Speaker 2: the way, that have been held accountable. There's been a
11:18
Speaker 2: lot of whistleblowers that have come forward saying how angry
11:21
Speaker 2: they are over this. There's people that have gone to
11:23
Speaker 2: jail for less than what Hunter Biden did on the
11:27
Speaker 2: tax issues that are talking about how why is it
11:29
Speaker 2: that they had to go to jail for years and
11:33
Speaker 2: this guy gets to walk. There seems to be a
11:36
Speaker 2: lot of not just nepotism here, but anger from Americans
11:42
Speaker 2: that have had to face the music when they've committed
11:45
Speaker 2: many of the same crimes that he was accused of
11:47
Speaker 2: committing and have been convicted of.
11:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, and not only is the federal judge angry, but
11:53
Speaker 3: the IRS whistleblower reacted to Biden's claim, and Townhall reported
11:58
Speaker 3: said IRAS whistleblower reacts to Biden's ludicrous claim justifying Hunter's pardon.
12:04
Speaker 3: On Sunday night, President Joe Biden issued a sweeping pardon
12:06
Speaker 3: for his son Hunter Biden. It covers all potential crimes
12:10
Speaker 3: committed between twenty fourteen and twenty twenty four and the
12:16
Speaker 3: it and that goes through the quotes. But IRS investigator
12:22
Speaker 3: and whistleblower Joseph Ziegler, who testified in twenty twenty three
12:26
Speaker 3: about the special treatment being handed to Hunter by the
12:28
Speaker 3: Department of Justice, blasted Biden's claims as ludicrous. And here's
12:33
Speaker 3: the quote that Ziegler said, quote, I honestly think that's
12:38
Speaker 3: completely ludicrous. I'm a Democrat, and I'm a person that
12:43
Speaker 3: believes in the rule of law. When you look at
12:46
Speaker 3: what he was charged with, criminal tax of asion and
12:49
Speaker 3: what he pled guilty to. There are thousands of taxpayers
12:52
Speaker 3: who honestly file their taxes, they pay their taxes on time,
12:56
Speaker 3: and I think they should be disappointed by this because
12:58
Speaker 3: they're held to a standard that's different from the political elite.
13:03
Speaker 3: This was felony conduct after he was sober. It was
13:07
Speaker 3: clever that the President's letter didn't bring up any of
13:11
Speaker 3: that conduct. I got to say, that's exactly right.
13:15
Speaker 2: So you look at this and yes, they're getting the
13:18
Speaker 2: I think the White House is pretty clear is getting
13:20
Speaker 2: slapped around on the facts.
13:22
Speaker 1: I'm not sure they.
13:23
Speaker 4: Care and what is also out there at all.
13:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they're just kind of like, we got
13:27
Speaker 2: away with it. We planned to get away with it,
13:29
Speaker 2: we had an alibi. Were the alibi was that, well,
13:33
Speaker 2: my son was a drug addict, so therefore he shouldn't
13:36
Speaker 2: be held accountable for his actions while we were making
13:39
Speaker 2: money while we were exploiting his addiction, which I also
13:41
Speaker 2: think is sick on so many different levels that there
13:44
Speaker 2: was that many Biden family members taking these amounts of
13:47
Speaker 2: money in the tens of millions of dollars, knowing that
13:51
Speaker 2: they were putting Hunter Biden out there and enabling his
13:55
Speaker 2: addiction with the massive payments coming to him while they
13:58
Speaker 2: knew he was a drug addict.
14:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I got to say it, it is reminiscent
14:02
Speaker 3: what Joe Biden did with his son Hunter is reminiscent
14:06
Speaker 3: of how criminals will sometimes use juveniles to commit crimes
14:11
Speaker 3: because they know that juveniles, as a general matter, can't
14:14
Speaker 3: be held very accountable. They'll serve minimal prison sentences. So
14:18
Speaker 3: you know, drug cartels will use teenagers as drug mules
14:22
Speaker 3: because they know the juvenile can get off with a
14:25
Speaker 3: very light punishment. In this case, Joe Biden was willing
14:29
Speaker 3: to use his drug addict son as the bagman, as
14:33
Speaker 3: the one collecting all the cash. And to be clear,
14:36
Speaker 3: it wasn't just cash that went to Hunter. Hunter made
14:38
Speaker 3: millions of dollars. I mean, he was paying for prostitutes
14:42
Speaker 3: out of this, He was paying for drugs out of this.
14:44
Speaker 3: And to be clear, Hunter was not working for our allies.
14:48
Speaker 3: He wasn't working for France or Canada or the United Kingdom.
14:52
Speaker 3: He was working for oligarchs, corrupt oligarchs in Russia, in
14:56
Speaker 3: Ukraine and communist China. He saw bought out those who
15:02
Speaker 3: were enemies of America, and he sold favors from his dad,
15:07
Speaker 3: And it was incredibly lucrative and and and and there's
15:11
Speaker 3: a cynicism to using someone and and and listen, the
15:14
Speaker 3: strategy was always, well, if we get caught, you know,
15:18
Speaker 3: blame Hunter.
15:19
Speaker 4: Well he's he's an addict. And so that's the problem there.
15:22
Speaker 3: It's all about covering up Joe's misconduct.
15:25
Speaker 4: That's why this is an issue of public concern.
15:28
Speaker 3: If this were just some you know, poor sad Sack
15:31
Speaker 3: who was struggling with addiction, we wouldn't be talking about it.
15:34
Speaker 3: But it is because this is public corruption by the
15:38
Speaker 3: president of the United States and by previously the vice
15:41
Speaker 3: president of the United States, because much of this corruption
15:43
Speaker 3: happened while Joe Biden was vice president, and I got
15:47
Speaker 3: to say, what's happening now, I've never seen anything like it.
15:50
Speaker 3: Democrats and the corporate media, they are openly urging Joe
15:54
Speaker 3: Biden issue more pardoned. And we talked about in Monday's podcast,
15:59
Speaker 3: how right now Hunter has essentially a carte blanche for
16:04
Speaker 3: all any and every crime he has committed, every federal
16:07
Speaker 3: crime he's committed for eleven years.
16:09
Speaker 4: It's just wiped away.
16:10
Speaker 3: And the pardon power is that broad that it can
16:13
Speaker 3: do exactly that. But we pointed out that Joe Biden's
16:16
Speaker 3: brother faces real exposure. Well, I guess this should have
16:21
Speaker 3: been predictable, although I will say maybe I wasn't cynical
16:25
Speaker 3: enough because I didn't predict it.
16:27
Speaker 4: On Monday's pod.
16:28
Speaker 3: Suddenly the media is saying, pardon Joe Biden's brother, Pardon
16:33
Speaker 3: Joe Biden himself, Pardon everyone involved in the corruption, Pardon
16:37
Speaker 3: everyone involved in the FBI, Pardon everyone who have used
16:41
Speaker 3: their power, Pardon everyone who committed any criminal offense whatsoever,
16:45
Speaker 3: and I want you to listen to Let's start with
16:48
Speaker 3: this is an excerpt from MSNBC this week, urging pardons
16:54
Speaker 3: across the board.
16:55
Speaker 5: Brant of clemency. I hope that President Biden will also
16:59
Speaker 5: issue reemptive pardons to all of those people threatened by
17:04
Speaker 5: the unjustice of what will become the Department of Justice
17:08
Speaker 5: in the Trump administration. That of course includes Jack Smith
17:11
Speaker 5: and all of his staff, many Department of Justice lawyers.
17:14
Speaker 5: It includes President Biden himself. Although we don't know that
17:18
Speaker 5: anyone can legally pardon themselves, he will need a pardon
17:22
Speaker 5: because he is going to be harassed and charged for
17:25
Speaker 5: no crimes whatsoever. Donald Trump has promised that.
17:30
Speaker 2: If I'm reading this correctly, she just called for Joe
17:34
Speaker 2: Biden to pardon his entire administration because they believe that they,
17:41
Speaker 2: the entire administration, needs these pardons because of the activities.
17:46
Speaker 1: They were involved in. They're literally admitting to criminal activity.
17:51
Speaker 3: Well, and unfortunately, this was the most lawless administration we
17:55
Speaker 3: have ever seen, and I talked about at the beginning
17:58
Speaker 3: of this podcast. There are at least two components of
18:02
Speaker 3: weaponizing law enforcement. One component, and the most visible component
18:07
Speaker 3: is using law enforcement, using the DOJ. You're using the FBI,
18:10
Speaker 3: using the CIA, using the alphabet soup of the federal
18:13
Speaker 3: government to go after your political opponents, most notably to
18:19
Speaker 3: indict and prosecute Donald Trump four separate times, which is
18:24
Speaker 3: what the Democrats have done, both federally and at the
18:26
Speaker 3: state level, but also using it to go after pro
18:30
Speaker 3: life protesters, using it to go after people who engage
18:34
Speaker 3: in peaceful protest. On January sixth, using it as an excuse,
18:38
Speaker 3: using it to refuse to prosecute people who were violating
18:44
Speaker 3: federal law, committing felonies by threatening and protesting outside of
18:48
Speaker 3: Supreme Court justices homes Merrick Garland refused to enforce the
18:51
Speaker 3: law and just said, no, we don't enforce that law.
18:54
Speaker 3: Why because he disagreed with the Supreme Court and he
18:56
Speaker 3: wanted those judges threatened, he wanted their families. That's one component,
19:02
Speaker 3: But a second component is protecting the political allies of
19:07
Speaker 3: the president, and that weaponization has happened at great level.
19:11
Speaker 3: Look the IRS whistleblower testified, for example, that the special
19:16
Speaker 3: counsel David Weiss that was investigating Hunter Biden was repeatedly
19:21
Speaker 3: told there were boundaries he could not look into the
19:25
Speaker 3: big guy, he could not look into Joe Biden. That
19:27
Speaker 3: they were going to protect Joe Biden, there would be
19:30
Speaker 3: no investigation. So, for example, the WhatsApp message that Hunter
19:34
Speaker 3: Biden texted to the Chinese businessman the Chinese communists saying
19:38
Speaker 3: I'm sitting next to my father and you pay us
19:41
Speaker 3: millions of dollars right now, or my father is going
19:43
Speaker 3: to retaliate against you. Well, the investigator said, listen, we
19:47
Speaker 3: would like to subpoena the GPS data for Hunter Biden's
19:52
Speaker 3: phone and Joe Biden's phone. You could determine were they
19:55
Speaker 3: in fact sitting next to each other or not. There's
19:58
Speaker 3: an answer. That answer can be found. It can be
20:02
Speaker 3: found through a subpoena. And yet the Biden Justice Department said, no,
20:06
Speaker 3: we don't want to know if Joe Biden was sitting
20:10
Speaker 3: next to Hunter while he was shaking down Chinese communists
20:14
Speaker 3: threatening retribution from his father. We don't want to know
20:18
Speaker 3: if Joe Biden knew that you're not allowed to ask.
20:20
Speaker 3: That's an example of protecting your political allies. Well, now
20:26
Speaker 3: the press is being even more brazen. The Democrats are
20:28
Speaker 3: being more brazen and saying, look there are a whole
20:31
Speaker 3: bunch of people who committed lawless conduct, and we're about
20:34
Speaker 3: to have a Department of Justice at FBI who is
20:37
Speaker 3: willing to investigate and criminal conduct and willing to enforce
20:42
Speaker 3: the law regardless of party. I don't want them to
20:44
Speaker 3: target these guys because they're Democrats. I want them to
20:47
Speaker 3: enforce the law. If people committed criminal offenses did so
20:51
Speaker 3: deliberately and willingly, they should face consequences. And the Democrats
20:56
Speaker 3: are terrified out of their mind, and they are openly
21:00
Speaker 3: urging Biden pardon everybody.
21:03
Speaker 2: By the way, it's not just the Lady that we
21:05
Speaker 2: played earlier. This was clearly an orchestrated effort in the
21:09
Speaker 2: last twenty four hours, yes, to normalize this idea. And
21:13
Speaker 2: I want to go through the list and some of
21:15
Speaker 2: the tweets out there and another piece of audio I
21:17
Speaker 2: want to play for you. But before I do that,
21:19
Speaker 2: I want to tell you about our friends over at
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23:25
Speaker 2: All right, so let let's go back to this list,
23:28
Speaker 2: and it was a list that Democrats put out. They
23:32
Speaker 2: started adding names to the list and saying this is
23:35
Speaker 2: somehow Trump's list, even though they're the ones creating out
23:38
Speaker 2: a thin air. So early in the day yesterday, it
23:41
Speaker 2: started with, well, it needs to the president needs to
23:44
Speaker 2: pardon himself. That also means he would need to pardon
23:47
Speaker 2: his brother. And then they added Joe Biden to the list,
23:51
Speaker 2: and then the list just started expanding to like everyone
23:54
Speaker 2: that worked for him that may have done something wrong
23:56
Speaker 2: or illegal. Alex Majorkis, for example, was on the list,
24:00
Speaker 2: James call me on the list, Andrew McCabe on the list.
24:04
Speaker 2: Peter Struck, you may remember that guy who said we're
24:06
Speaker 2: gonna stop back in sixteen, We're gonna stop Downald Trump
24:09
Speaker 2: from becoming president. Brus or Nellie or Rod Rosenstein. And
24:14
Speaker 2: then an expanded from there to the point where The
24:16
Speaker 2: Atlantic has an article saying there needs to be mass pardons.
24:23
Speaker 2: And this conversation took place on MSNBC.
24:27
Speaker 6: You argued, we defend norms by defending norms, not preaching them.
24:32
Speaker 6: A lot of happens between now and then. And I
24:36
Speaker 6: wonder how you're thinking about the president's pardon power today
24:40
Speaker 6: and how he should wield it.
24:43
Speaker 7: Well.
24:43
Speaker 8: Back in twenty seventeen, I thought that Trump was an aberration,
24:48
Speaker 8: an unusual and.
24:52
Speaker 7: Black swan, if you will.
24:54
Speaker 8: And my thought was that you had to defend the
24:57
Speaker 8: norms of the rule of law, the governance, and the
25:01
Speaker 8: only way to do that was to maintain them even
25:04
Speaker 8: in the face of.
25:05
Speaker 7: His aberrational behavior.
25:08
Speaker 8: Today, I think we know that Trump is not an aberration.
25:12
Speaker 8: He's a phenomenon, he's a movement, and as such, what
25:17
Speaker 8: we have to do is recalibrate how we respond to that.
25:21
Speaker 7: And it now strikes me as.
25:24
Speaker 8: Essential to at least begin to play to the edge
25:28
Speaker 8: of the field, to go as far as the law
25:32
Speaker 8: permits in combating the authoritarian excesses of Trump.
25:37
Speaker 7: And the way I wrote about in The Atlantic is
25:40
Speaker 7: the pardon power.
25:42
Speaker 8: A pardon for Hunter Biden, a pardon for Trump's critics
25:48
Speaker 8: would be completely normative breaking, and it would be out
25:52
Speaker 8: of character, out of historical tradition. But at this point
25:58
Speaker 8: I was listening to your earlier your earlier broadcast. You
26:03
Speaker 8: were talking about kash Fittel. He's got a list of
26:05
Speaker 8: sixty people he wants to prosecute.
26:08
Speaker 7: That's a real list. Will he do all of them?
26:10
Speaker 7: I don't know. Will there be resistance of the FBI?
26:13
Speaker 8: Probably, But one of the realities of being investigated is
26:19
Speaker 8: that investigation has a cost, even if you're not prosecuted.
26:24
Speaker 7: In the end.
26:25
Speaker 8: You have to hire a lawyer, the mental cost, the time,
26:28
Speaker 8: the resources, And so it strikes me as perfectly reasonable
26:33
Speaker 8: to ask, what can President Biden do within the bounds
26:36
Speaker 8: of law, even if it would not be normatively traditional
26:40
Speaker 8: to save his allies from that. And the answer is obviously,
26:44
Speaker 8: pardon them.
26:46
Speaker 2: Let's just stop there, And he said more but let's
26:48
Speaker 2: just die. Let's break that down. Senator, he's saying, it's
26:52
Speaker 2: personally perfectly reasonable for Biden to pardon any Trump critic
27:00
Speaker 2: and says, well, it's a cost issue because you'll have
27:03
Speaker 2: to get a lawyer. Well, no crap, Like everybody around
27:06
Speaker 2: Trump knows that they tried to financially break so many
27:10
Speaker 2: people around Donald Trump that worked to the White House
27:13
Speaker 2: tried to financially ruin them. I have friends I'm not
27:15
Speaker 2: going to say their names who worked at the White
27:17
Speaker 2: House who were strapped with legal bills over a half
27:21
Speaker 2: a million dollars just having to answer questions in and
27:24
Speaker 2: around what happened on January sixth, even though they weren't
27:27
Speaker 2: involved in it.
27:28
Speaker 4: Look, that's absolutely right.
27:30
Speaker 3: But I got to say, the hypocrisy is even more
27:32
Speaker 3: rich than that. So the person, the man whose voice
27:35
Speaker 3: you're hearing is a guy named Paul Rosenwick. Now, who
27:38
Speaker 3: is Paul Rosenwick. Well, he was a deputy Assistant secretary
27:41
Speaker 3: in the Department of Homeland Security under George W.
27:44
Speaker 4: Bush and listen, I know Paul.
27:46
Speaker 1: A little bit.
27:47
Speaker 3: I don't know him well, but I know him socially
27:49
Speaker 3: around DC lawyer circles. He wears a bow tie every
27:53
Speaker 3: day and he was one of the like he would
27:55
Speaker 3: run around Federalist Society events and he he was part
28:01
Speaker 3: of the sort of Republican lawyer cadre during the George W.
28:06
Speaker 4: Bush campaign.
28:07
Speaker 3: He is also someone who Donald Trump has broken his
28:13
Speaker 3: brain and Trump derangement syndrome is a very real phenomenon,
28:18
Speaker 3: and he is he is now advocating that Biden pardon everybody,
28:25
Speaker 3: Pardon every critic of Trump, Pardon every member of the cabinet,
28:29
Speaker 3: Pardon his entire family, Pardon anyone who may have committed
28:32
Speaker 3: any crime, because he doesn't want anybody to be held
28:37
Speaker 3: account for breaking the law. Now I'm going to tell
28:40
Speaker 3: you what the particular irony is. Paul Rosenwig is also
28:46
Speaker 3: one of the leaders of a group called the sixty
28:49
Speaker 3: five Project. Now what is the sixty five project? It
28:52
Speaker 3: is this left wing group and it's Paul Rosenwig, and
28:54
Speaker 3: it's also David Brock, who was Hillary Clinton's attack dog,
28:59
Speaker 3: who went a filing complaints trying to get Republican lawyers
29:03
Speaker 3: disbarred for supporting Donald Trump and Paul Rosenwike. His group
29:07
Speaker 3: filed a complaint with the Texas Bar asking that I
29:11
Speaker 3: be disbarred.
29:12
Speaker 4: Understand this guy way before the Texas Bar.
29:15
Speaker 1: I remember that story. But this is the guy that
29:17
Speaker 1: was actually doing it.
29:18
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, he was doing it.
29:20
Speaker 3: And so I'm going to read to you from the
29:22
Speaker 3: New York Times story when they filed this complaint, and
29:25
Speaker 3: it says, this is a quote from the complaint quote,
29:28
Speaker 3: mister Cruse played a leading role in the effort to
29:30
Speaker 3: overturn the twenty twenty elections. And while the same can
29:32
Speaker 3: be said about several other elected officials, mister Cruse's involvement
29:35
Speaker 3: was manifestly different. This is what the complaint says. He
29:39
Speaker 3: chose to take on the role of lawyer and agreed
29:42
Speaker 3: to represent mister Trump and Pennsylvania Republicans in litigation before
29:47
Speaker 3: the US Supreme Court. In doing so, mister Cruz moved
29:51
Speaker 3: beyond his position as United States Senator and sought to
29:55
Speaker 3: use more than his Twitter account and media appearances to
29:58
Speaker 3: support mister Trump's anti democratic mission. So understand their complaint
30:04
Speaker 3: is that when I was asked when the appeal in
30:07
Speaker 3: twenty twenty challenging Pennsylvania's violating the Pennsylvania Constitution and changing
30:13
Speaker 3: the law in Pennsylvania. When that was appealed to the
30:15
Speaker 3: Supreme Court, I was asked, if the court takes it,
30:20
Speaker 3: would you be willing to argue the case? And Donald
30:23
Speaker 3: Trump asked me that, and I said, yes, if the
30:27
Speaker 3: Court takes it, if four justices decide they want to
30:29
Speaker 3: hear this case, and I believe they should have heard
30:31
Speaker 3: the Pennsylvania case, that I'll do the oral argument. Their argument,
30:37
Speaker 3: Paul Rosenwagg's argument is because I said yes I would
30:41
Speaker 3: represent a client before the Supreme Court, I should be disbarged.
30:46
Speaker 3: So he's talking about the cost of frivolous complaints at
30:49
Speaker 3: attacking people.
30:50
Speaker 4: Well, he was one of the point people doing it.
30:52
Speaker 3: And by the way, thankfully the Texas Bar is not
30:56
Speaker 3: an insane, woke nest of lunatic.
31:00
Speaker 4: And so what did the Texas Bar do.
31:01
Speaker 3: They threw their complaint out as frivolous and baseless, so
31:04
Speaker 3: it got thrown out.
31:05
Speaker 4: It was absurd.
31:07
Speaker 3: But this is someone who was asking that I be
31:11
Speaker 3: barred from practicing law. And by the way, this group
31:13
Speaker 3: has gone after over and over and over again, lawyers
31:17
Speaker 3: who dared to represent Donald Trump. So they're willing. When
31:21
Speaker 3: we talk about weaponization, weaponization of law enforcement, and weaponization
31:26
Speaker 3: of law I got to say Paul rosenwagg is a
31:29
Speaker 3: great example of that. He's happy to go and attack
31:32
Speaker 3: and try to bankrupt people. You mentioned the look at
31:37
Speaker 3: the end of the day, if they come after me,
31:41
Speaker 3: I am a sitting senator, I have the ability to
31:43
Speaker 3: raise money, I can defend myself. I am not a
31:47
Speaker 3: particularly faint flower. I am not a vulnerable person who
31:52
Speaker 3: if they want to come after me, let's go. And
31:54
Speaker 3: they're going to regret picking that fight. But they're a
31:57
Speaker 3: bunch of people in the Trump administration who twenty somethings
32:01
Speaker 3: or thirty somethings.
32:02
Speaker 4: They were young.
32:03
Speaker 3: People, and these bastards when after them tried to bankrupt them.
32:08
Speaker 3: They had hundreds of thousands or more in legal expenses
32:14
Speaker 3: and they tried to make it. And by the way,
32:15
Speaker 3: these are the same people that publicly said if you
32:19
Speaker 3: worked for Trump, we're gonna do everything we can to
32:21
Speaker 3: make you unemployable. To pressure law firms, they shouldn't hire you.
32:25
Speaker 3: To pressure companies, they shouldn't hire you. They wanted to
32:29
Speaker 3: destroy anyone who was willing to work with Donald Trump.
32:33
Speaker 4: That's the viciousness.
32:35
Speaker 3: And at the same time, they're urging Joe Biden pardon
32:39
Speaker 3: everybody because people who actually committed felonies, we don't want
32:43
Speaker 3: them investigated, and we certainly don't want them prosecuted.
32:47
Speaker 1: It's amazing the lawfair here.
32:48
Speaker 2: And I want you to hear the second part of
32:50
Speaker 2: what he had to say as well, because this goes
32:52
Speaker 2: back to I think the broader theme here, which is
32:55
Speaker 2: everyone that we believe that may have done something wrong,
32:58
Speaker 2: we need to protect them now so that Republicans cannot
33:03
Speaker 2: look at the crimes that we committed and prosecute us.
33:06
Speaker 1: Keep listening, Yeah.
33:09
Speaker 6: I mean it seems to you, and I think to
33:12
Speaker 6: other folks as well, that the argument about the institutional
33:16
Speaker 6: preservation in this moment is best relegated to academics, and
33:21
Speaker 6: that in reality, it's time to play political hardball.
33:24
Speaker 7: And it sounds like you're extending that.
33:26
Speaker 6: Not just to the pardon power, but to other levers
33:28
Speaker 6: that the Democrats might be able to pull. I'll read
33:30
Speaker 6: an excerpt from your Atlantic piece. It has become painfully
33:33
Speaker 6: self evident. The democratic self restraint is a form of
33:36
Speaker 6: unilateral disarmament that neither persuades Trump to refrain from bad
33:39
Speaker 6: behavior nor wins points among the undecided. It is time,
33:43
Speaker 6: well past time for responsible Democrats to use every tool
33:47
Speaker 6: in their tool kit. Does any part of that, I
33:50
Speaker 6: guess worry you, you know, I mean one it could
33:52
Speaker 6: have said the Democrats when they were in control the
33:54
Speaker 6: cenationship have gotten rid of the filibuster and done stuff. Well,
33:57
Speaker 6: now it seems like the philibuster is the only thing
33:59
Speaker 6: that's actual are going to stop Trump from enacting probably
34:02
Speaker 6: the broadest, most pernicious parts of his agenda. So how
34:06
Speaker 6: do you, I mean, how do you think about the
34:07
Speaker 6: cost benefit analysis here?
34:09
Speaker 7: Well, of course it worries me. It has to.
34:12
Speaker 8: It has to worry any sensible thinking person to argue
34:18
Speaker 8: for breaching norms that have guided our country for two
34:21
Speaker 8: hundred and fifty years. On the other hand, I don't
34:25
Speaker 8: think the democratic self restraint is what is going to
34:27
Speaker 8: stop Trump from acting.
34:29
Speaker 7: If in the end, Trump and the Republican.
34:32
Speaker 8: Majority think that the filibuster is a barrier to whatever
34:35
Speaker 8: it is that they want, for example, they're going to
34:38
Speaker 8: get rid of it anyway, whether or not the Democrats
34:42
Speaker 8: had done so in the in the prior Congress, and
34:44
Speaker 8: so it strikes me as essential to begin trying to
34:48
Speaker 8: take steps that can't be reversed or irreversible steps in
34:52
Speaker 8: defense of say, voting rights, for example, expanding the franchise
34:59
Speaker 8: guaranteeing fed really against state entrepreneces. We would still have
35:03
Speaker 8: to contend, obviously with the Supreme Court. But for two
35:08
Speaker 8: years the Democrats had a majority from both houses, and
35:12
Speaker 8: instead of doing transgressive, normative things like changing the electoral
35:18
Speaker 8: rules to prevent Trump's cheating, they did normal democratic things.
35:25
Speaker 8: They passed the Inflation Reduction Act and the Bipartisan Infrastructure Act,
35:29
Speaker 8: and all good things, I'm sure from their perspective.
35:33
Speaker 7: But they thought that that.
35:35
Speaker 8: Would be how to reclaim America, and turned out they
35:38
Speaker 8: were wrong.
35:40
Speaker 2: I mean, centaer As, you just listened to this. Do
35:43
Speaker 2: you want to talk about the threats to democracy? Holy crap.
35:47
Speaker 3: So look, I gotta admit I don't know this bow
35:51
Speaker 3: tide clown. I've met him once or twice over the
35:54
Speaker 3: last twenty years, but I don't know him at any
35:57
Speaker 3: personal level. But he is I They're deliberately dishonest or
36:01
Speaker 3: profoundly ignorant because like one statement he made there that
36:04
Speaker 3: is just laughing, laughably false. He's like, well, if Trump
36:08
Speaker 3: wants to get rid of the filibuster, he just will.
36:10
Speaker 3: I'm gonna quantify to you. So I said six months ago,
36:15
Speaker 3: the odds that Joe Biden will grant a part pardon
36:17
Speaker 3: Hunter Biden were one hundred percent. I'm gonna give you
36:20
Speaker 3: the odds that the filibuster will be ended in the
36:22
Speaker 3: next two years with the Republican majority in the Senate,
36:25
Speaker 3: and they are the obverse of one hundred percent. They
36:28
Speaker 3: are zero point zero zero zero zero zero percent. There
36:32
Speaker 3: is literally not a point zero zero zero zero zero
36:36
Speaker 3: one percent chance it is. It will not happen. There
36:40
Speaker 3: are not ten votes to end the filibuster. And he's
36:46
Speaker 3: just that there's something about Trump derangement syndrome that that
36:51
Speaker 3: that that that it's bizarre and pathological, that that that
36:54
Speaker 3: all people afflicted with it can say is orange man bad,
36:58
Speaker 3: arch man bad. And and there's also look, I gotta say,
37:02
Speaker 3: Sigmund Freud has got to be spinning in his grave
37:06
Speaker 3: because the left and the never Trump and unfortunately the
37:10
Speaker 3: never Trump Republicans is a really tiny sliver of kind
37:14
Speaker 3: of DC folks who've lost their minds, but they engage
37:19
Speaker 3: in a degree of Freudian projection that is amazing. So,
37:22
Speaker 3: for example, all of these people beat their chest and
37:25
Speaker 3: say we love democracy, but they also are saying, well,
37:29
Speaker 3: they're aspects of Trump's agenda that are horrific. Well, there
37:33
Speaker 3: was an election in November and the voters voted for Trump,
37:39
Speaker 3: and he laid out what his agenda was, and the
37:41
Speaker 3: voters said, yeah, that's what we want. There were seven
37:45
Speaker 3: battleground states. Donald Trump won all seven. It wasn't close,
37:52
Speaker 3: it wasn't ambiguous. It was a clear and overwhelming result.
37:56
Speaker 3: And they also gave Republicans the majority in the Senate,
37:58
Speaker 3: in the House. And you know what, MSNBC, they don't
38:01
Speaker 3: care about democracy. These never Trump loans. They don't care
38:05
Speaker 3: about democracy. They don't care about the mandate from the
38:07
Speaker 3: people that the voters have decided. They're not saying, you
38:09
Speaker 3: know what, the voters decided they agree with this agenda.
38:12
Speaker 3: They want the border secured, they want integrity restored to
38:15
Speaker 3: the Department of Justice of the FBI. They don't care
38:18
Speaker 3: about that. And I've got to say, you know, I'm reminded,
38:22
Speaker 3: so so do you remember at the end of the
38:23
Speaker 3: Trump first term. There were lots of stories, and by
38:27
Speaker 3: the way, MSNBC breathlessly reported it about Republicans who were
38:31
Speaker 3: coming to Trump and saying, please give me a pardon,
38:34
Speaker 3: Please give me a pardon. And all these different Republicans
38:37
Speaker 3: were allegedly mostly House Republicans, were alleged to have asked
38:40
Speaker 3: for a pardon.
38:41
Speaker 4: And by the way that it.
38:43
Speaker 1: Was twenty four to seven, they were losing their minds.
38:46
Speaker 3: And there were reporters who claimed that I wanted a pardon,
38:50
Speaker 3: and let me be clear, that was always utter bs.
38:53
Speaker 3: Not only did I not want to parton, not only
38:55
Speaker 3: did I not ask for a pardon, but if Trump
38:56
Speaker 3: had asked me, hey, should I pardon you, I would say, hell, no,
38:59
Speaker 3: I haven't committed any came. I don't want to pardon.
39:01
Speaker 3: People who want pardons are people who who have likely
39:05
Speaker 3: committed crimes.
39:06
Speaker 4: And no, absolutely not. But it was all made up.
39:10
Speaker 3: It was an entirely fanciful fantasy. But and look, I
39:17
Speaker 3: don't know there may have been some individual House members
39:19
Speaker 3: who asked for it. I don't know about that, but
39:22
Speaker 3: I can tell you the press was breathlessly reporting all
39:25
Speaker 3: these Republicans that we're seeking pardons. And the irony is
39:31
Speaker 3: what is happening right now, you said at the outset
39:34
Speaker 3: of this pod.
39:34
Speaker 4: And this is important.
39:36
Speaker 3: This is orchestrated, This is concertive, This is not spontaneous.
39:41
Speaker 3: There has been a decision made by Democrats and by
39:44
Speaker 3: the corporate media. We're going to try to number one,
39:47
Speaker 3: pressure Joe Biden to give pardons to everybody. But number two,
39:51
Speaker 3: we're going to try to normalize it by talking about, Hey,
39:53
Speaker 3: isn't this a great idea, Let's just pardon everyone?
39:55
Speaker 4: And why?
39:56
Speaker 3: And their reason is pardon everybody because Orange man bad
40:01
Speaker 3: that that is their only reasoning, and it is Sigmund
40:06
Speaker 3: Freud would be amazed at the level of projection. They
40:11
Speaker 3: are literally doing exactly what they claim Republicans falsely claim
40:16
Speaker 3: Republicans were doing.
40:17
Speaker 2: I will say this what worries me the most about
40:20
Speaker 2: this Senator, and will end with this, But I do
40:22
Speaker 2: want to get your reaction is that if they do this,
40:28
Speaker 2: does it not signal to Democrats in the future when
40:32
Speaker 2: they get control of the White House. Just abuse your power,
40:35
Speaker 2: do whatever the hell you want to do. Go after
40:37
Speaker 2: your political enemies, and you can expect a pardon for
40:41
Speaker 2: any crimes you commit.
40:42
Speaker 3: Well, listen, that's been signaled already. As you know, I
40:45
Speaker 3: wrote an entire book entitled Justice Corrupted, How the Left
40:49
Speaker 3: is weaponized the legal system, and it talked about how
40:51
Speaker 3: Barack Obama that what Richard Nixon attempted to do, Barack
40:56
Speaker 3: Obama succeeded in doing. He weaponized the federal government. And
41:00
Speaker 3: then when Trump became president, these hardcore partisans burrowed in
41:05
Speaker 3: to the career positions and they waged war on Donald Trump.
41:09
Speaker 4: They tried to destroy the president.
41:11
Speaker 3: They hated the fact that the voters had elected him,
41:13
Speaker 3: and they wanted to stop him from implementing the policies
41:16
Speaker 3: the voters had elected him to implement. And now under
41:19
Speaker 3: Joe Biden, they're open and brazen. Alejandro Majorcis may be
41:23
Speaker 3: the single most lawless cabinet member who has ever served
41:26
Speaker 3: in our nation's history. And that is a remarkable statement.
41:30
Speaker 3: And so of course these radicals want Mayorcis to get
41:34
Speaker 3: a pardon because if he's committed criminal activities, they don't
41:37
Speaker 3: want him held to account. They want no accountability whatsoever.
41:43
Speaker 3: And listen, this is the same you think about it.
41:46
Speaker 3: In four years of the Biden administration, how many people
41:49
Speaker 3: has he fired none that I'm right, I don't know
41:53
Speaker 3: of a single one, including everyone in charge of the
41:56
Speaker 3: disastrous Afghanistan withdraw that was an absolute debui was it
42:00
Speaker 3: did enormous damage to US national security, and nobody was fired.
42:05
Speaker 3: Nobody lost their job. You look at the disasters, you
42:09
Speaker 3: look at the people in charge of the border. The
42:11
Speaker 3: people in charge of the border presided over the largest
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Speaker 3: invasion at our southern border, our nation's history, the worst
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Speaker 3: illegal immigration in our nation's history, and nobody lost their job.
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Speaker 3: You literally wonder what the hell does someone have to
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Speaker 3: do in this administration to lose their job. Well, now
42:29
Speaker 3: it turns out not only do they want nobody to
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Speaker 3: ever lose their job, they want Biden to issue pardons
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Speaker 3: so that nobody who committed federal crimes is ever, ever,
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Speaker 3: ever held accountable. This is chapter two of the politicization
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Speaker 3: and weaponization of law enforcement.
42:46
Speaker 1: It really is.
42:47
Speaker 2: We're gonna keep covering it, We're gonna keep talking about this,
42:50
Speaker 2: and make sure you share this podcast wherever you can
42:53
Speaker 2: on social media. That's why we do the show so
42:55
Speaker 2: others can hear it as well. Thank you for supporting us.
42:57
Speaker 2: As always, we do this show Monday Wednesdays in to
43:00
Speaker 2: hit that subscriber auto download button and the center and
43:03
Speaker 2: I will be back with you on Friday morning.