Latest / Austin Signal / How traffic stops turn into ICE busts in Austin

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How traffic stops turn into ICE busts in Austin · Austin Signal

• 0:09
  We're learning more about the
• 0:10
  tactics and technology that's used
• 0:12
  by police in Texas when they partner
• 0:14
  with ICE to do immigration
• 0:16
  enforcement.
• 0:17
  The Texas newsroom has access body
• 0:19
  and dashcam videos from an incident
• 0:20
  last summer in East Austin that
• 0:22
  ended with five people in the
• 0:23
  custody of Immigration and Customs
• 0:25
  Enforcement.
• 0:26
  The tactics being deployed in
• 0:28
  these apprehensions coming up on
• 0:30
  today's show.
• 0:31
  The Austin Signal is a production
• 0:33
  of KUT News, hosted by
• 0:35
  Jerry Quijano.
• 0:36
  And the fallout from the sexual
• 0:38
  abuse allegations against Cesar
• 0:39
  Chavez made public this month
• 0:41
  continues among community members
• 0:43
  and in the world of academia.
• 0:45
  We're going to hear one local
• 0:46
  perspective on what we've heard and
• 0:48
  what could come in the future.
• 0:50
  Plus, Elon Musk has announced a
• 0:52
  large-scale chip manufacturing
• 0:53
  project.
• 0:54
  What does that mean for Austin?
• 0:56
  Come find out next, right here
• 0:58
  on Austin's Signal.
• 1:09
  Howdy out there.
• 1:10
  Thank you for tuning in.
• 1:11
  This is Austin Signal.
• 1:13
  I'm your host, Jerry Kihono.
• 1:14
  It is March 24th.
• 1:16
  We're glad to be part of your
• 1:18
  Tuesday.
• 1:19
  The wildfire that started up Sunday
• 1:21
  night in Bastrop State Park
• 1:23
  has burned 46 acres.
• 1:24
  We told you about it yesterday.
• 1:26
  That is now 85%
• 1:28
  contained, according to the latest
• 1:29
  update from the Texas A&M Forest
• 1:31
  Service.
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• 1:34
  Officials say Highway 21 through the
• 1:36
  area has reopened.
• 1:37
  Though some smoke may still be
• 1:39
  visible on the highway, just in case
• 1:41
  you see that on your drive
• 1:43
  home or to the office or
• 1:45
  wherever you're going today and
• 1:46
  wherever you are headed, thanks for
• 1:48
  bringing Austin Signal along
• 1:50
  with you.
• 1:52
  We're learning more about the
• 1:53
  tactics and technology that's used
• 1:55
  by police in Texas when they partner
• 1:56
  with ICE to do immigration
• 1:58
  enforcement.
• 1:59
  The Texas newsroom has obtained body
• 2:01
  and dash cam videos from an incident
• 2:03
  last summer in East Austin.
• 2:04
  That ended with the detention of
• 2:06
  five men by Immigration and Customs
• 2:08
  Enforcement.
• 2:08
  Here to tell us more about that
• 2:10
  story is Moe's Bouchel.
• 2:11
  He has been covering immigration for
• 2:13
  the Texas Newsroom.
• 2:14
  Welcome back, Moe. Thanks, Jerry.
• 2:15
  So tell us about this incident in
• 2:17
  question. What happened here?
• 2:18
  You might remember this one, it
• 2:19
  happened last July, it was July
• 2:21
  31st, and it
• 2:23
  involved both Texas DPS,
• 2:26
  Texas State Police,
• 2:28
  and ICE agents, and also there was
• 2:30
  at least one ATF agent represented
• 2:32
  in this operation.
• 2:33
  Uh... And it happened at a
• 2:35
  construction site which i think one
• 2:36
  reason i got a lot of attention
• 2:38
  uh... Five men that were pulled over
• 2:40
  in their van heading to the site
• 2:41
  uh... There were workers that were
• 2:42
  heading this construction site and
• 2:43
  they were ultimately uh...
• 2:45
  Detained by ice uh...
• 2:47
  So we we we got the
• 2:49
  body cam and dash cam video
• 2:51
  of the state trooper who pulled them
• 2:52
  over and participated in this arrest
• 2:54
  and that state trooper was part of
• 2:56
  a DPS Homeland Security strike team,
• 2:58
  can you tell us more about that?
• 3:00
  Yeah, these were announced last year
• 3:01
  by Governor Abbott as a
• 3:03
  way to kind of leverage the
• 3:05
  manpower of state police to
• 3:07
  further the president's
• 3:10
  immigration crackdown, essentially.
• 3:11
  They work in these strike forces
• 3:13
  with ICE
• 3:15
  agents, with federal agents, to do
• 3:17
  immigration arrests.
• 3:18
  And in this case, it was a state
• 3:19
  trooper who pulled over this van
• 3:21
  saying that the license plates were
• 3:23
  not properly placed and
• 3:25
  then eventually called ICE on these
• 3:27
  five that we're in the van.
• 3:28
  We've seen lots and lots of videos
• 3:30
  of ICE detentions here in Texas
• 3:32
  and across the country.
• 3:33
  Some of them are really long
• 3:35
  and played out, incidences with
• 3:37
  members of the community in addition
• 3:39
  to the law enforcement officers.
• 3:40
  This incident that we're talking
• 3:41
  about specifically here, how long
• 3:43
  did this one last?
• 3:44
  So this is one of the things that
• 3:45
  was striking about this particular
• 3:47
  event. It was about 11 minutes
• 3:49
  between when the troopers saw this
• 3:51
  van and when these guys were
• 3:52
  handcuffed, including by federal
• 3:54
  agents, and about under 15 minutes
• 3:56
  before they were kind of led away
• 3:59
  in detention.
• 4:01
  This just kind of shows how quickly
• 4:03
  and almost invisibly these
• 4:05
  types of arrests can happen,
• 4:06
  especially when you have
• 4:08
  state or in some cases local police
• 4:10
  working in conjunction with
• 4:12
  federal agents.
• 4:13
  And in Texas now, state police have
• 4:15
  also been further in power to do
• 4:16
  these types of arrests, so it can
• 4:18
  happen even more kind of almost
• 4:21
  in the
• 4:23
  background of life, as one expert
• 4:24
  said it to me.
• 4:25
  Well, through your investigation
• 4:28
  you were able to obtain these
• 4:29
  dashcam videos and bodycam videos.
• 4:31
  What do we know about the men who
• 4:33
  were actually detained in the video?
• 4:34
  I mean, unfortunately, this is one
• 4:36
  of the big remaining questions,
• 4:37
  right? Arrest documents that I
• 4:39
  got suggest that
• 4:41
  many of them were Mexican nationals.
• 4:43
  But I asked ICE what happened to
• 4:45
  them, got no answer.
• 4:46
  I also tried to call up people
• 4:48
  with the same names, just kind of
• 4:50
  cold calling people.
• 4:51
  Nobody was, I
• 4:53
  didn't get anywhere with that.
• 4:55
  Reached out to the Mexican
• 4:56
  consulate. They said they had no
• 4:57
  information likewise with local
• 5:00
  immigrant advocacy groups.
• 5:02
  Uh, but...
• 5:02
  It seems that they were likely
• 5:04
  deported. There is ICE data that
• 5:06
  is public through public information
• 5:08
  requests that show five men that
• 5:10
  were arrested around this time in
• 5:12
  Austin did end up deported from
• 5:14
  the country.
• 5:15
  Some of the law enforcement that
• 5:16
  show up to the arrest scene in the
• 5:17
  videos are wearing masks.
• 5:19
  What is the Department of Public
• 5:20
  Safety protocol about wearing face
• 5:22
  coverings and what have You heard
• 5:23
  from them.
• 5:23
  Yeah, this is one of the things that
• 5:24
  was striking about this video.
• 5:26
  We saw at least three agents
• 5:28
  that were masks, wearing ski masks
• 5:30
  or other similar kind of face
• 5:31
  coverings, right?
• 5:32
  It turned, when you watch that, you
• 5:33
  might assume these are ICE agents.
• 5:35
  As it turned out, the ones that
• 5:37
  I could identify by their vest,
• 5:38
  like, you know, logos.
• 5:40
  Yeah, because it says HSI, right.
• 5:41
  Exactly, yeah. If you're ICE, it's
• 5:43
  Homeland Security Investigations.
• 5:44
  These were state police.
• 5:45
  These were DPS investigation agents,
• 5:47
  in some cases, that were wearing
• 5:49
  masks. That is against department
• 5:51
  policy.
• 5:52
  DPS agents with this division are
• 5:54
  not supposed to wear masks,
• 5:56
  and Texas DPS tells me that those
• 5:57
  agents have been counseled as to
• 5:59
  what the proper policy is.
• 6:00
  And the Austin City Council is
• 6:02
  considering something similar, or
• 6:03
  considering something when it comes
• 6:04
  to face coverings?
• 6:05
  Indeed, yeah, it's been now proposed
• 6:07
  by, I think, City Councilmember
• 6:08
  Vanessa Fuentes that perhaps the
• 6:09
  city can pass unilateral
• 6:12
  mask bans for all law enforcement
• 6:14
  operating in the city.
• 6:16
  Of course, that does raise questions
• 6:17
  of where state and federal power
• 6:19
  preempt local power, but that is a
• 6:21
  debate now that's happening in
• 6:22
  Austin as people do not like
• 6:24
  seeing police officers wearing
• 6:26
  masks, and they want a reason when
• 6:27
  they see it.
• 6:28
  And so I think you're kind of seeing
• 6:29
  that local response playing out
• 6:31
  right now.
• 6:32
  You mentioned the stealth and quick
• 6:33
  nature of the apprehension in this
• 6:35
  video.
• 6:36
  Immigration apprehensions haven't
• 6:37
  been as visible here in Texas, but
• 6:39
  what do we know about the number of
• 6:40
  apprehensions that have been happening
• 6:41
  here?
• 6:41
  Yeah, really, Texas leads
• 6:43
  the country in
• 6:45
  immigration apprehensions.
• 6:48
  I think I heard about a quarter of
• 6:49
  all of them happen in Texas.
• 6:51
  And part of the reason this happens
• 6:52
  so often
• 6:54
  here is because it kind of
• 6:56
  happens in the course of daily
• 6:58
  life as local and state
• 7:00
  police partner with immigration
• 7:02
  agents.
• 7:03
  So we do a lot of immigration
• 7:05
  enforcement here, but you don't see
• 7:07
  the big high profile protests,
• 7:10
  you know, like you maybe saw in.
• 7:12
  In L.A., Chicago, so many blue
• 7:14
  cities like Austin, where you have
• 7:15
  the kind of local or state
• 7:17
  political structure in opposition to
• 7:19
  the Trump deportation push.
• 7:22
  Here, it doesn't work that way, and
• 7:23
  so it kind of happens more in the
• 7:24
  background.
• 7:25
  Okay, we have been speaking with
• 7:27
  Moe's Boo Shell, who has been doing
• 7:28
  some special reporting on
• 7:30
  immigration for the Texas newsroom.
• 7:32
  We're gonna have a link to his
• 7:33
  latest in today's show notes and you
• 7:34
  can find that also at kut.org
• 7:37
  slash signal.
• 7:38
  Moe, thank you for being on the
• 7:39
  show. Thank you, Jared.
• 7:54
  After sexual assault and abuse
• 7:56
  allegations against Cesar Chavez
• 7:57
  came to light in a story reported
• 7:59
  last week by the New York Times,
• 8:01
  the ramifications of these
• 8:02
  allegations sent a wave of emotions
• 8:04
  through the Mexican American
• 8:05
  community here in Texas and
• 8:08
  beyond.
• 8:08
  Joining us on the show now is
• 8:10
  Professor Karma Chavez, chair of
• 8:12
  the Department of Mexican American
• 8:13
  and Latina, Latino studies at the
• 8:15
  University of Texas.
• 8:17
  Karma, thanks for joining us on this
• 8:18
  show.
• 8:18
  Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 8:19
  So we saw lots of reactions
• 8:21
  to the news of last week's
• 8:23
  allegations. I wanted to ask you,
• 8:24
  what was your reaction?
• 8:26
  Well, I think on the one hand, there
• 8:27
  was a little bit of surprise.
• 8:29
  And then on the other hand, there
• 8:30
  was little bit not surprise because
• 8:32
  we see a lot of similar kinds of
• 8:34
  stories, right?
• 8:35
  Where powerful men engage in
• 8:37
  bad behavior.
• 8:38
  You mentioned some people were
• 8:39
  surprised, others weren't.
• 8:41
  This isn't reflective of the overall
• 8:43
  Mexican-American community's
• 8:44
  reaction, but there were some folks
• 8:46
  who were maybe more accusatory of
• 8:48
  the women who came
• 8:50
  forward and questioned the timing
• 8:52
  of that. Can you help us understand
• 8:53
  where that frustration or maybe
• 8:55
  where that anger against
• 8:57
  the versus the alleged abuser
• 8:59
  in this case.
• 9:00
  It's really not surprising that
• 9:02
  that's one of the reactions that
• 9:03
  happens. If we look throughout
• 9:04
  history, anytime women
• 9:06
  bring up issues related to
• 9:08
  sexism and especially sexual assault
• 9:10
  of a famous or powerful
• 9:12
  man, specifically in leftist
• 9:14
  movement contexts, we
• 9:16
  often see people respond really
• 9:18
  harshly to that and sort of saying,
• 9:20
  you're hurting the whole movement.
• 9:21
  Can't you just keep this personal
• 9:22
  issue to yourself?
• 9:23
  Well, we've seen the overall
• 9:25
  backlash here in Austin be pretty
• 9:27
  swift. We've seen cancelations of
• 9:28
  other parades here in Texas
• 9:30
  and in other states.
• 9:32
  What do you think has aided in that
• 9:34
  swift reaction?
• 9:35
  And why have we not seen that with
• 9:37
  other people who are accused of
• 9:38
  similar allegations?
• 9:40
  I think this is a really good
• 9:41
  question that a lot of people are
• 9:42
  trying to figure out.
• 9:43
  And so, why has nothing
• 9:45
  like this happened with the
• 9:47
  Jeffrey Epstein files, for example,
• 9:50
  and yet the one big leader
• 9:51
  in the Chicano community is accused
• 9:54
  of really bad behavior and
• 9:55
  it's almost instant, the
• 9:57
  canceling. And I think we can't help
• 9:59
  but make a kind of racialized
• 10:01
  analysis of what's happening here.
• 10:03
  I think there's a way in which Black
• 10:05
  and Brown communities are positioned
• 10:07
  within the broader culture as
• 10:09
  always a little bit suspect.
• 10:11
  And so it makes sense for,
• 10:14
  you know, still white power
• 10:15
  structures to go ahead and
• 10:17
  use this as an example of how we're
• 10:19
  gonna respond, even
• 10:21
  though it's an inconsistent example.
• 10:23
  I wanted to ask you personally, what
• 10:25
  have the discussions been like in
• 10:26
  the world of academia that you work
• 10:28
  in and also just the community that
• 10:30
  you live in and your regular life?
• 10:32
  Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably
• 10:34
  been somewhat reflective of what's
• 10:35
  happening elsewhere.
• 10:36
  I know, you know, in the department,
• 10:38
  we haven't had a chance to have a
• 10:40
  conversation about it yet.
• 10:42
  In part, that's because our
• 10:44
  department, of course, is going to
• 10:45
  be closed down at the end of this
• 10:47
  year. So what a time to do that.
• 10:49
  We don't really have time to
• 10:50
  facilitate it like we might like.
• 10:52
  But you know I posted a thing on
• 10:53
  Instagram where what my personal
• 10:55
  response is to hear the department
• 10:57
  is I went around to all the
• 10:59
  pictures.
• 10:59
  In the department and I put
• 11:01
  up a little note card that said,
• 11:03
  this man is an important part of
• 11:05
  Chicano history and he raped
• 11:07
  children.
• 11:08
  And I didn't take the posters down,
• 11:11
  I didn't completely cover his face,
• 11:13
  you can still lift and see who it
• 11:14
  is. But I wanted it to be
• 11:16
  known that this is a conversation
• 11:18
  that we need to be having.
• 11:19
  And I think that's actually what we
• 11:20
  should be doing is like we have to
• 11:22
  deal with all of the complexity
• 11:24
  of this situation.
• 11:25
  He is an an important of Chicana
• 11:26
  history. I don't believe he should
• 11:28
  be erased. I don't believe he even
• 11:30
  should be completely canceled.
• 11:31
  But I do believe we have to
• 11:33
  reckon with the fact that he raped
• 11:35
  children and women and
• 11:37
  we have let those women
• 11:38
  and former children be the ones
• 11:40
  to lead the conversation.
• 11:42
  And it's not just about him, right?
• 11:43
  He's done this, but a lot of
• 11:45
  other people have done this as well.
• 11:47
  And a lot women colluded
• 11:50
  in this.
• 11:51
  I can almost guarantee there were a
• 11:52
  lot a women who told other women to
• 11:53
  be quiet.
• 11:54
  That's gonna be what comes out next,
• 11:56
  I suspect.
• 11:57
  Is that something that's normally
• 11:58
  part of these kinds of stories?
• 11:59
  Absolutely.
• 12:00
  Okay, I want to circle back to the
• 12:02
  question about the your department
• 12:04
  being shut down.
• 12:05
  Have you seen similar responses from
• 12:07
  other people in your department,
• 12:09
  sort of continuing to embrace this
• 12:11
  this tough conversation, even at a
• 12:13
  time when your resources are
• 12:15
  being taken away?
• 12:16
  Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of
• 12:17
  the things that our department has
• 12:19
  been really good at is what we would
• 12:21
  call an intersectional analysis.
• 12:22
  And so I think we're able to
• 12:24
  help our students and our community
• 12:26
  to hold that complexity.
• 12:27
  And so how do we talk about the
• 12:29
  importance of a movement for racial
• 12:31
  justice or a movement for labor
• 12:32
  justice and talk
• 12:34
  at the same time about how it
• 12:36
  might have also been a homophobic
• 12:38
  or a sexist space?
• 12:40
  Those things can all be true at the
• 12:42
  time and they help us to have a
• 12:43
  fuller understanding of both our
• 12:44
  history and our presence.
• 12:46
  The Texas Education Agency, which
• 12:48
  oversees what's taught in
• 12:50
  elementary, middle school, and high
• 12:51
  schools, just recently announced
• 12:52
  that it wants curriculum with Cesar
• 12:54
  Chavez removed.
• 12:55
  You spoke a little bit about fears
• 12:56
  that others have shared about
• 12:58
  sweeping a broad brush to
• 13:00
  erase vital aspects of
• 13:02
  Mexican-American history.
• 13:03
  How do you see this, and what
• 13:05
  concerns do you have about the
• 13:07
  future pedagogy of
• 13:09
  Mexican American studies?
• 13:11
  I think it's an interesting
• 13:12
  question. So if we're talking about
• 13:13
  the TEA and K-12 and getting
• 13:15
  rid of any mention of Cesar Chávez,
• 13:17
  it suggests that young people
• 13:19
  are not able to handle these
• 13:21
  kinds of difficult topics, which of
• 13:23
  course is not true.
• 13:24
  In fact, young people are often the
• 13:26
  victims of these kinds behaviors,
• 13:28
  right? So I think we need to give
• 13:30
  students a lot more credit than
• 13:32
  just sweeping something under the
• 13:34
  table. I don't think it does them a
• 13:35
  service. And when you now won't have
• 13:37
  Mexican-American studies in almost
• 13:39
  every public.
• 13:40
  A higher education institution in
• 13:42
  the state of Texas, we're doing
• 13:44
  a real disservice to students across
• 13:45
  the board. So I think, again, we
• 13:47
  have to be able to talk about what
• 13:48
  happened in honest ways,
• 13:50
  age-appropriate ways, and
• 13:52
  not just pretend it didn't happen,
• 13:53
  because how does that help us to be
• 13:55
  better in the future?
• 13:56
  What else are you gonna be looking
• 13:58
  for? You mentioned what comes
• 14:00
  next in this story or what you
• 14:02
  expect might come next.
• 14:03
  What else you looking for or
• 14:05
  watching for?
• 14:06
  So, you know, I've been having some
• 14:08
  conversations with other community
• 14:09
  leaders about holding some
• 14:11
  sort of venue in the next week
• 14:13
  or two for people to come together
• 14:15
  and have some conversations about
• 14:17
  what we want to see, how does this
• 14:19
  impact us locally?
• 14:20
  Like, what does it mean for Chicanos
• 14:22
  in Austin, for example?
• 14:23
  And what do we wanna do with this to
• 14:25
  make our own community stronger?
• 14:26
  And so I really think that is what
• 14:28
  we have to do is come together,
• 14:31
  listen to the people who are most
• 14:32
  marginalized and most impacted
• 14:34
  in these kinds of situations.
• 14:36
  And make a collective plan forward,
• 14:38
  whether that's about what to do with
• 14:39
  the street, with the statue, or with
• 14:41
  the talking about him in courses.
• 14:43
  Do you know anything about what's
• 14:44
  happening with the statue here on
• 14:45
  the UT campus?
• 14:46
  Well, that would assume that UT
• 14:48
  respects my position enough to ask
• 14:50
  me, so the answer to that is no.
• 14:52
  Okay, we have been speaking with
• 14:54
  Karma Chavez, professor and chair of
• 14:56
  the Mexican American Studies and
• 14:57
  Latina, Latino Studies Department
• 14:59
  here at UT Austin.
• 15:01
  Karma, thank you for your time.
• 15:02
  Thank you.
• 15:03
  And thank you for spending part of
• 15:05
  your Tuesday here with community
• 15:07
  powered public radio.
• 15:08
  This is Austin Signal, and
• 15:10
  you can catch up on all the stories
• 15:12
  that we have bringing you at
• 15:14
  kut.org
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  slash signal.
• 15:17
  We have more show coming up for you
• 15:19
  after this break.
• 15:20
  Stay with us.
• 15:31
  This is Austin Signal, welcome
• 15:33
  back.
• 15:34
  When this Texas band was at the apex
• 15:36
  of their popularity, there were
• 15:37
  probably plenty of DJs in the studio
• 15:39
  who did a double take at their name
• 15:41
  before asking themselves,
• 15:43
  can I even say that on the radio?
• 15:45
  Well, that name wasn't enough to
• 15:46
  hold down the psychedelic guitars
• 15:48
  and punk sounds that filled the
• 15:49
  airwaves of 80s, 90s,
• 15:51
  and even today.
• 15:53
  For more about that band
• 15:55
  from just down I-35, here's
• 15:57
  Jason Mellard from the Center for
• 15:58
  Texas Music History.
• 16:00
  At Texas State University.
• 16:09
  This week in Texas Music History,
• 16:10
  the state's weirdest surfers catch
• 16:12
  a wave.
• 16:13
  On March 23, 1993,
• 16:16
  Capitol Records released the
• 16:17
  Butthole Surfers album, Independent
• 16:19
  Worm Saloon.
• 16:20
  With Led Zeppelin's John Paul Jones
• 16:22
  as producer, the band assembled a
• 16:23
  sprawling set of psychedelic hard
• 16:25
  rock, punk, and folk song oddities.
• 16:27
  The album opens with distorted
• 16:28
  voices chanting, I'm flying,
• 16:31
  I'M FLYING, and the electrifying
• 16:33
  lead single, Who Was In My Room Last
• 16:35
  Night. A proper bit of
• 16:36
  disorientation that, along with the
• 16:38
  accompanying music video, was just
• 16:40
  the right thing to introduce the
• 16:42
  offbeat Texas band to new national
• 16:44
  audiences.
• 16:57
  The exposure was perhaps unexpected.
• 17:00
  In a state that has raised its share
• 17:01
  of Devil May Care avant-gardes, the
• 17:03
  13th floor elevators in Red Crayola,
• 17:05
  the legendary stardust cowboy and
• 17:06
  culture side, the notion that the
• 17:08
  butthole surfers would cross over
• 17:10
  via music video might have seemed
• 17:11
  far-fetched.
• 17:22
  The group formed in late 70's San
• 17:23
  Antonio with two Trinity University
• 17:25
  students, frontman Gibby Haynes and
• 17:27
  guitarist Paul Leary.
• 17:28
  Their industrial noise rock, upside
• 17:30
  down walls of sound, throbbing with
• 17:32
  the dueling drums of King Coffee and
• 17:34
  Teresa Nerosa, provided a soundtrack
• 17:36
  to live shows that were as much
• 17:37
  performance art or deranged stage
• 17:39
  rituals as rock and roll,
• 17:41
  spliced films and strobe lights,
• 17:43
  nudity and frantic dance.
• 17:53
  Independent Worm Saloon was their
• 17:54
  first record for a major label, and
• 17:56
  it marked a turning point for a band
• 17:57
  whose prior recordings for Touch& Go
• 17:59
  and Rough Trade had made them
• 18:00
  legendary in the 80s rock
• 18:02
  underground.
• 18:03
  The album's popularity helped set
• 18:04
  the surfers up to ride the coming
• 18:06
  alternative rock wave, but
• 18:07
  Independent Worn Saloon remains true
• 18:09
  to the group's brand of
• 18:11
  acid-drenched, surrealist punk.
• 18:22
  You can hear music from the Lone
• 18:23
  Star State 24-7 on the
• 18:25
  Texas Music Experience at TMX.fm.
• 18:32
  Show me a good one,
• 18:34
  maybe I'll cry.
• 18:37
  Elon Musk announced plans over the
• 18:39
  weekend for a $25 billion
• 18:41
  chip-making factory here in Austin
• 18:43
  called TerraFab.
• 18:45
  These plans have many in the
• 18:46
  industry raising their eyebrows.
• 18:47
  Based on Musk's track record,
• 18:49
  is this something that can be done?
• 18:51
  And if so, what does that mean for
• 18:53
  Austin?
• 18:54
  Joining us now is Shelley Brisbane,
• 18:56
  a reporter producer with Texas
• 18:57
  Standard who keeps her fill on the
• 18:59
  pulse of the tech world for the
• 19:00
  show. Shelley, thanks for being on
• 19:02
  Austin Signal.
• 19:02
  Hey Jerry, thanks for having me.
• 19:04
  So tell us what exactly were the
• 19:05
  plans announced by Musk over the
• 19:06
  weekend.
• 19:07
  Musk announced the TerraFab,
• 19:09
  which is going to be, according to
• 19:10
  him, a giant chip-making
• 19:13
  plant, but it's vertically
• 19:15
  integrated. So it's not just making
• 19:16
  the chips, it's designing them, it's
• 19:18
  testing them, it' making them.
• 19:20
  It's an enormous project that is
• 19:22
  going to provide chips to Tesla,
• 19:24
  to SpaceX, and to
• 19:26
  XAI, his AI company.
• 19:27
  And basically he wants to
• 19:29
  control and have access to all the
• 19:31
  chips he needs for these giant
• 19:33
  ventures he has in mind.
• 19:34
  And listeners of our show and
• 19:36
  listeners of KUT will be familiar
• 19:38
  with these chip making processes.
• 19:40
  Why are people in the industry
• 19:42
  unsure about this
• 19:44
  idea?
• 19:45
  Several things.
• 19:46
  I mean, Musk has a reputation
• 19:48
  for making big promises that
• 19:50
  sometimes don't come out
• 19:52
  the way they were originally
• 19:54
  proposed, or it takes longer
• 19:56
  than anticipated, and so people
• 19:58
  are wondering whether these really
• 19:59
  ambitious plans for a
• 20:01
  terawatt of power, chip-making
• 20:03
  power, which is an incredible
• 20:04
  amount.
• 20:05
  Yeah, how much is that?
• 20:06
  It's a trillion watts.
• 20:08
  I don't know if that makes it any
• 20:09
  more clear.
• 20:10
  Maybe not.
• 20:10
  It's a lot, well a trillion of
• 20:12
  something is a lot of something, so.
• 20:14
  So it's a whole lot and he says
• 20:16
  that it's something like that the
• 20:17
  chips that he's able to get for his
• 20:19
  Companies that hit the projected
• 20:21
  needs that he has it says that he
• 20:23
  can get like 2% of what he needs So
• 20:25
  it it's allot he says and
• 20:27
  the issues that people have are
• 20:29
  number one musk doesn't have any
• 20:30
  track record in making chips He's
• 20:32
  sent rockets up in the space up into
• 20:34
  space and he's paint self-driving
• 20:36
  cars all sorts of things but he
• 20:38
  doesn't really have a track record.
• 20:39
  Also, this is vertically integrated,
• 20:40
  which means they're trying to do all
• 20:42
  the pieces of the chip-making puzzle
• 20:43
  instead of just one or two of them.
• 20:45
  And that's just really ambitious and
• 20:47
  just the sheer size of it.
• 20:49
  So people, and also he
• 20:51
  wants to do this by 2027, by
• 20:53
  next year.
• 20:53
  And so it's really an
• 20:55
  ambitious project.
• 20:56
  Yeah, ambitious indeed.
• 20:58
  You mentioned that these chips would
• 20:59
  primarily be used by
• 21:02
  companies owned by Muska.
• 21:03
  If these plans do work out, how
• 21:05
  would they affect the chip making
• 21:06
  industry at large?
• 21:08
  Well, on the positive side, those
• 21:09
  companies that provide materials for
• 21:11
  chipmakers, including Applied
• 21:13
  Materials, a company that has a big
• 21:14
  facility in Austin and some other
• 21:16
  companies, would potentially benefit
• 21:17
  because they could sell their
• 21:19
  equipment or their products to
• 21:21
  Musk.
• 21:22
  And also for chip makers that are
• 21:24
  currently faced with difficult
• 21:26
  supply issues from Taiwan,
• 21:28
  where most of the chips that are in
• 21:29
  our gadgets come from
• 21:31
  right now, there would be less
• 21:33
  pressure on that if Musk was
• 21:35
  creating his own chips rather than
• 21:37
  having to buy them.
• 21:38
  From companies like Samsung.
• 21:39
  He actually recently announced
• 21:41
  he was going to buy a large number
• 21:42
  of chips from Samsung's
• 21:44
  Taylor Fabrication plant, this
• 21:46
  enormous project that's outside of
• 21:48
  Austin right now.
• 21:49
  And so potentially those chips would
• 21:51
  be available for somebody
• 21:53
  else to use or could provide
• 21:55
  a backup for what Musk needs.
• 21:57
  I believe Musk announced this
• 21:59
  project on Saturday and then there
• 22:00
  was some clarification on Sunday
• 22:01
  that this would be a bigger
• 22:03
  project maybe going beyond Austin,
• 22:05
  but focusing on Austin, what could
• 22:07
  the impact be here locally?
• 22:09
  Well, obviously, if he's hiring
• 22:11
  people, KUT reported that
• 22:14
  there are already TerraFab job
• 22:15
  openings for Austin and for Palo
• 22:17
  Alto, California, which is another
• 22:19
  center of chip design in the US.
• 22:21
  And then just generally, as I
• 22:23
  mentioned, companies like Applied
• 22:24
  Materials or anybody who's supplying
• 22:26
  equipment and products that
• 22:27
  chipmakers need would potentially
• 22:29
  benefit.
• 22:30
  And then there would be facilities
• 22:32
  that would have to be created.
• 22:34
  Musk says he might need thousands of
• 22:35
  acres for this. So that land has to
• 22:37
  come from somewhere. One of the
• 22:38
  places is probably near his
• 22:40
  Gigafactory out in Del Valle.
• 22:42
  All right, we have been speaking
• 22:43
  with Shelley Brisbane, a reporter
• 22:44
  producer at Texas Standard.
• 22:46
  Shelley, thanks for joining us here
• 22:47
  on Austin Signal.
• 22:48
  My pleasure.
• 22:49
  And thank you out there for spending
• 22:51
  part of your Tuesday here with us.
• 22:53
  We're gonna have a link to the
• 22:54
  stories that we brought you on
• 22:55
  today's show in the
• 22:57
  show notes for today's podcast.
• 22:59
  And you can always find more at
• 23:01
  kut.org slash
• 23:03
  signal.
• 23:04
  Rayna Sevilla is our technical
• 23:06
  director.
• 23:07
  Kristen Cabrera is our managing
• 23:09
  producer. And I'm your host, Jerry
• 23:11
  Quijano- Miles Bloxson
• 23:13
  will be in the host seat for the
• 23:14
  rest of this week, so be nice and
• 23:16
  tune in.
• 23:17
  And as always, stay with us
• 23:19
  here on KUT News.
• 23:21
  This is community-powered public
• 23:23
  radio.