Latest / The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers / Reality Bytes #40: Technology, Change and DEX Success (w/ Tracy Downer)

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Reality Bytes #40: Technology, Change and DEX Success (w/ Tracy Downer) · The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers

0:01
Welcome it. Change makers to the Deck Show with Tim Flower and Tom McGraw.
0:07
Let's get into it. They are change makers. Welcome to the deck
0:11
Show, show within a show within a show, which is of course those
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special monthly episodes of Reality Bites where the Reality Bites team and myself get to
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talk to fascinating colleagues, fascinating next thinkers, find out a bit about what
0:25
they do in a bit about the wider industry that their work touches upon.
0:30
We always enjoy it. And we've got a great guest for everyone today.
0:34
But I have to first of all make clear as I failed to on the
0:38
last show. But it is not just me, of course interviewing our guest
0:41
today. I'm also joined by Dina and Tim today. Hey guys, how
0:45
are we doing? Tim? You're good? Yeah, all good time?
0:48
Better than you. At least I got a roof over my head. He's
0:51
making a joke listeners, because I'm I'm surrounded by renovations at the moment and
0:56
I'm currently missing a large part of my roof, which would turn out has
1:00
some impact on the temperature of your home. I didn't, I haven't thought
1:03
it through very farly, but that is apparently knock on effect of having no
1:07
roof. And I'm joined as well by Dina. How you doing, Dina?
1:11
All good, glad to be here, excellent. It means when your
1:14
questions are ready, don't you don't surprise the guest half to death. So
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now I've interviewed the guest. Yes, we don't want to lose any more
1:23
guests to uh death by fright. But it is Tracy Dana customer success director
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here at Next Think, another UK based Next Thinker like myself. We won't
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go into the background here, Tracy, of all the times we've tried to
1:37
record together, at the times we've recorded together and have been unable to release
1:41
it, but there is some backstory. Delighted to finally officially properly have you
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on the show. Welcome, great to see you, Thank you very much.
1:49
I'm very honored to be here. Splendid, splendid and I mean,
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you know, the best place to begin, I think is to just hear
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there's something about you and your role here at Next Thing, please Tracy.
2:01
Sure. So I am based out of London, as you said, the
2:07
American accent throws folks. I've lived in England for quite some time now,
2:12
and my career background is quite diverse. I left You Need to go into
2:17
the finance sector and then worked away from that into software and startups, and
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about two years ago my path led me to Next Think and it's been a
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great, great ride over the last two years, and my responsibility has increased
2:42
as of the end of last year to now be responsible for the customer's success
2:46
organization across the international market, which is seventeen folks, brilliant, brilliant and
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so a couple of years since you've been working in experience fans specifically, what
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about your broader relationship with technology, Tracy, Has it been a lifelong passion
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or enthusiasm or have you been dragged kicking and screaming into this, say definitely
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not kicking and scream You'll be pleased to know. So technology found me.
3:19
Actually, as I mentioned, I left you need to go into banking and
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you know, make my millions in investment banking. And then I decided to
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leave finance because as I continued to be successful in the career path, I
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realized I needed to change because I was changing in ways that really didn't align
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with who I was. And through that soul searching, I ended up finding
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a job in a predictive modeling software company, and this is going to date
3:51
myself, but I'm going to do it anyhow. It was about twenty five
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years ago and this software was leading in that what they were doing, and
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they did fraud scoring as well as some marketing predictive modeling, but they were
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keen on hiring me because my finance background, and you know, this was
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software using jade analysis, regression, neural networks and it was super exciting and
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from joining it, I was really hooked on technology because I love learning about
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the tech. It involved maths, which I really like, and just being
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able to provide companies with the ability to achieve results faster and smarter really kind
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of lit a fire inside of me. And you know, this was in
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a time where there wasn't this nice title customer success, but that's exactly what
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I was doing. So I helped the company learn about fraud and banking LINGO
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and they taught me a lot about SaaS. So ever, since I was
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hooked, hooked traces to talk a little bit more about that. I think
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at some point in our careers, most of us in it have been customers.
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And even if you're not a buyer of technology or software, you're interacting
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with a vendor and they're kind of there's a customer relationship there. Having evaluated
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and purchased a ton of software myself over the years, I've seen vendors who
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really get it and really know the value of their customers, and I've seen
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others that haven't done so well in that. What's your philosophy to working successfully
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with customers? So there's some key principles, right, and they're mainly being
5:43
able to ask questions. Right. I do find people sometimes hesitant because by
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asking a question, it shows maybe that you're concerned and perceived that you don't
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understand what talking about. So I really understand how to best support customers is
6:02
being able to ask those questions, and a lot of them starting with why,
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and it's positioning them in a very curious nature, not in a confrontational
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way or a challenging way, but more a collaborative way, and then actually
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listening. Because I had one opportunity, most of my career in software and
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tech has been on the vendor side. I did do one stint client side
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when I was in the US and worked for Dick Sporting Goods and on both
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sides, you do get a different perspective, right. And I was on
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a panel for vendor selection and the amount of times people don't listen and pick
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up cues and actually answer the question. It's almost like they hear the beginning
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part of the question and then answer and aren't listening. So asking questions listening
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lead because as a vendor worthy expert, right, and all too often we
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rely on the customers leading us. It's a joint partnership, right, and
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they're looking for us for guidance on that. And then last, but most
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important, is don't avoid hard conversations because they're hard, but they'll always end
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up needing to be addressed and the longer you leave it, the worse it
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gets. So that's my four key things. I think that's good life advice
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too. Never mind just the customer relationship, right, don't avoid the hard
7:38
stuff and I'll make you feel a little bit better. And I've done I
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do this pretty regularly, and date myself as well. My career is more
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than thirty five years. I started in nineteen eighty eight and before windows ninety
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five, kind of back to the stone ages. So I think folks are
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fairly well aware of that origin story that I have. What's your experience with
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experience as an IT discipline. I'm curious how you found it, how you
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decided it was interesting enough to work in the field. Did you have that
8:09
background before joining Next Thing? I did not have the background and they still
8:13
hired me. So the bulk of my experience kind of what after getting into
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tech has been very customer focused. Right. I did web analytics, I've
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done surveys, I've done live chat, chatbots, and all of that very
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much from a digital transformation perspective for the end customer. What attracted me to
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Next Thing was in consulting with customers on how to create that digital transformation.
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It was very clear that the key focus and what was broken and a lot
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of customers not succeeding, was that infrastructure piece. So now by working it
8:58
Next Thing, you're affecting that from the inside out, and that is incredibly
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powerful. Now. Did I underestimate the complexity of the sector that I was
9:11
coming into. Absolutely, But with that underestimation has formed a great challenge for
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me personally to learn and understand it and a much deeper level of knowledge.
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And I've really enjoyed the whole experience and think. I think one of the
9:33
most fascinating things is watching it as an organization have such an impact culturally.
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And I saw this happen in marketing, you know, doing web analytics and
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all of that change and what was expected of marketeers and with technology and that
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impact, and now I'm seeing it. There's so many parallels to when I
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was in that world to now what it is going through, and I just
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find it fascinating them. To be able to be a part of helping I
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see with that journey, I think is very lucky for me. And it's
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cool because it's not a desk job. Right you're out, you're talking with
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people, You're experiencing what they're going through, You're helping them on their journey.
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That I love that part of the job as well. In my role
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and kind of looking at the career in the rearview mirror. I've been doing
10:24
a little bit of kind of retrospective work, both writing and some video stuff
10:30
up on YouTube. I look at the career in a twenty year block.
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I had twenty years at Hartford. Next Think is now coming up on a
10:39
twenty year milestone this spring as a company age, and when I look at
10:45
those kind of rearview mirror blocks of time. The recurring question comes up is
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what was the what was the Holy Cow kind of a moment? What was
10:54
the significant technology evolution that really changed the game? Wouldn't you look back on
11:00
your career and what you've been involved in, what was that significant evolution that
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you said this is this is a game changer. I think it's still to
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come because a lot of the challenges that I've seen throughout my career, they
11:20
keep repeating themselves. Right when I first started in web analytics, we were
11:24
analyzing server logs. The data analysis was so simplistic but incredibly powerful. We've
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moved on to having more data than anyone knows what to do with. But
11:35
the problems that that data solves, and the technology and the processing power that
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we have still isn't solving those problems. Right, So why I say it's
11:46
still yet to come is because we still haven't found a way to operationalize the
11:54
power of technology. And you know, I mentioned on works twenty five years
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ago, I was kind of dabbling in AI at the time with some you
12:07
know, thought leaders, and this is the key piece that's really hard,
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and with great advancements in technology, there's also risks, right, and there's
12:22
corporate responsibility, and there's a lot of other components that need to be considered
12:28
in order for it to be successful. So, you know, digital transformation
12:33
I was dealing with since two thousand that conversation, and those conversations are still
12:39
occurring. So I do feel like we're on a cusp of one of those
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really big catalyst moments. I'm just not sure when that moment is going to
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happen. I know in the market everyone thinks it's going to happen tomorrow,
12:56
but this type of sustain change takes a while. You know, we underestimate
13:03
what overestimate what we can do in a short term, but underestimate what we
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can do longer term. So I'm very excited about the future. So the
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holy cow is the holy cow is Holy Cow? Why are we still doing
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it that way? When are we going to learn? Yes? Yes,
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all right, I mean it was the same thing with like Webby alyts and
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cookies and cookies were evil and then they were good and then they made our
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lives better, and then it went quiet, and then ten years later it
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comes back up again. So I'm not meaning to be sound like a you
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know, cynical, older individual, but it's interesting the older I get some
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of the themes that you see are true still ones that I saw through much
13:48
younger eyes. I agree, and it takes a bit until people start adopting
13:58
new technologies and innovation. So I'm fascinated to hear more about how the customers
14:03
in general have been reacting to whether it's embracing or not really embracing the AI
14:09
and the automation capabilities in particular that have been booming. I think more or
14:13
less the last year, right and still is like every second week you'll get
14:18
to SEO. There is the new GPT in this, there is new AI
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jennai in that. So how has this been your experience with our customers so
14:28
far? I think our customers are super excited, right because what this technology,
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the first wave helps reduce friction, right, and it makes their jobs
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easier and it takes away from some of the more cumbersome jobs, and that's
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an absolute delight. I think as far as customers go, as long as
14:56
technology is serving them, there's very little reasons stands to change. But as
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human beings, we do find change hard. And I think when those sizeable
15:07
shifts happen. I think that's where where we might see a slowdown of adoption
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to change because they're not exactly sure how it impacts them directly. But organizations
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have the responsibility to communicate that impact to the individuals, and if done properly,
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we'll get them excited about it because it should open new opportunities and not
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create fear that their job or their purpose is going to be made redundant.
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Yeah. I think the more knowledge that is being spread and ambiguity behind the
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big fear of AI or automation, once this is cleared out, people start
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to adopt a little bit more. All right, we just had international Women's
15:58
date. Would you characterize the challenges faced by women in tech and throughout your
16:03
career run up to the present time. Yes, we did, and it's
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great to be interviewed by a woman as well. No offense, Tom,
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Tom. But the every time I think we're on the cusp of not having
16:22
to battle for equality, an experience comes my way and reminds me that we
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do still have a long way to go. The challenges are so broad from
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you know, sexual harassment, to pay gaps, opportunities and simply being heard,
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you know, and sadly, I've experienced every one of those, and
16:49
you know, simple things like being highly respected in an organization. And then
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I had my first child and came back to work, and men that I
16:59
worked with who used to hold me in high regard, all of a sudden
17:03
treated me differently because they thought I should be at home with my child,
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and I was somehow irresponsible because I came back to work. So I think
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it's really challenging, and I'm optimistic because I feel now it's not only women
17:22
fighting for their seat at the table. We have allies across gender right And
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to me, that's so critical right now is it's not just a woman's fight.
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And I don't even like using the term fight because that shows confrontation.
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And I tried to think of a better word, but I didn't come up
17:47
with one. But we even having a voice in a meeting. I've been
17:52
in meetings where I will say something and literally two minutes later, a man
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in the room will say the exact same thing, and all of a sudden,
18:00
like everyone in the room hurt the man, but not what I said,
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And we as women will often be like, well, did I position
18:10
that wrong? Did I not say it? With a strong enough voice,
18:11
and somehow we focus on how maybe we could have done better. And what
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I would like to see is us not looking on how we need to adapt
18:23
to the marketplace, but also the marketplace adapting to our ways, because you
18:29
know, not to be completely stereotypical, but we think different and through that
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diversity, not only across gender, it brings such rich conversations and high impact.
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And you know, the research is out there, like I was reading
18:48
on LinkedIn for like women involved in peace negotiations, thirty three percent of the
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outcomes last more than ten years. Or you know, there's just incredible statistics
18:59
behind mind why this is so important if you even take the personal side out
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of it. So I'm hoping and always optimistic that we keep on pushing to
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make society a better place and a more tolerant place. And we all know
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right now, with everything going on in the world, it's not just women
19:26
that need that, and so totally agree, it's people and human beings.
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And I'm not going to go where human beings versus the AI where Tom likes
19:37
me to go, So I'm not going to go there now. So all
19:42
right, last question, how was or how has the culture and the values
19:48
of the industry evolved. Do you see any relationship between technology and culture?
19:52
Giving back to that question and what one thing would most improve the industry we
19:57
all work in from your perspective, if we can so two questions in one
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question, let me see if I can answer them both sinctly. So the
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industry and culture values has definitely evolved, and it's both positive and negative.
20:18
Right. So the positive thing is through you know, team zooms, we
20:22
can call anyone anywhere in the world. It's breaking down barriers and making everyone
20:29
much more accessible across the globe and cultures and you know, hierarchy and organizations.
20:37
It seems to be helping to break that down as well. But with
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that also comes and we're still not out of the fully remote kind of mindset.
20:51
We all know how in person means so much and there's intangible benefits,
20:57
and I think some times we it from a cultural perspective, have gotten a
21:04
bit lazy on making the effort to be in person. I'm guilty. You
21:11
know, there's sometimes where I'm like, oh, taking the train into London
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and I could just be at home and you know, have that much time
21:18
I end up working anyhow. But the intangible piece is that personal interaction and
21:27
that, you know, we need to learn how to better balance from a
21:32
cultural industry tech pieces, keep it human and not just rely on technology,
21:41
because the human component of culture is what makes culture right. And that was
21:48
always my biggest concern at COVID when you had a lot of folks saying fully
21:52
remote, this is the new world. And I've got four kids, and
21:57
I'm like, how are they going to learn how to act in an office
22:00
environment? Or where are they going to learn these soft skills on seeing someone
22:04
make a big mistake in front of someone senior, or you know, where
22:11
are companies going to have that culture that attracts the same like minded folks.
22:17
And if it's all fully remote, then then we're we're disadvantaged. So and
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I don't think I asked the second part of your question because I forget it.
22:30
So the second part of the question was what one thing would you most
22:34
would you think that most improve the industry we work in from your perspective,
22:41
technology knowledge sharing? You know, I can easily leverage something that someone else
22:47
has done without having to create it myself, and that knowledge share is so
22:52
much easier, and there's a lot less barriers to share. I mean,
22:57
that's not even specific to our industry. It's the medical field, it's science.
23:02
It's so much that makes everything move at a faster pace. Tracy,
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So many genuinely profound answers there today. Really really enjoyed listening to those.
23:15
Before you go, we have one last trite question for you. I'm afraid
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following all that, I'm not hopefully funnel the same and I'm interested to know
23:23
what you have to say on it. So what is your favorite thing about
23:27
being a next thinker? Tracy? So I did people. If you look
23:34
at the tagline on my LinkedIn, it's people make the difference, right,
23:40
And I've worked for a lot of companies now and it is absolutely the for
23:47
next thing. The consistent depth of skill, as well as amazing personalities and
23:52
diverse personalities across the organization. It just fosters an environment where I'm always learning
24:02
and also have the opportunity to always support growth in other people. And that's
24:07
really special, and I'm yeah, that is my favorite thing about being the
24:11
next thinker. Very very good answer, And people won't even believe the ridiculous,
24:18
how ridiculously long it has taken us to get to this point to record
24:22
this episode, have an episode that we can publish. But I'm so so
24:26
glad we did it. I'm so so glad we have every verse. He
24:27
was because that was a wonderful conversation. And thanks for coming on, and
24:30
hopefully it will feel so painless and enjoyable this time around. By the time
24:34
it's published that you're you'll comment see us again sometimes. Thanks you absolutely anytime
24:40
I'm asked. I really enjoyed the conversation and the questions and some of my
24:44
favorite next thinkers, So thank you. Thank thanks. To make sure that
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you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify
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your favorite podcast player, and if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, make sure
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think the podcast deserves. If you'd like to learn more about how next Think
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can help me improve your digital employee experience, head over to nextthink dot com.
25:11
Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,