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UnchainedTV: Let's End Cruel Primate Experimentation Now & Forever! · UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell

0:03
We have breaking news for you on so
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many fronts.
0:09
The battle against cruel, wasteful, unnecessary, expensive to
0:14
the taxpayers.
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Primate experimentation is raging on many fronts.
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You are looking at images of just some
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of the primate victims of this completely wasteful,
0:28
unnecessary industry.
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And we are talking with People for the
0:32
Ethical Treatment of Animals, PETA, how to end
0:35
primate experimentation now.
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And the breaking news is that PETA has
0:41
just uncovered some really, really horrific, horrific information
0:48
about what the government has done wrong when
0:51
it comes to a story that we've all
0:54
probably heard about.
0:57
And that story is the monkeys that escaped.
1:03
You may have heard in November of 2024,
1:06
43 monkeys escaped from a South Carolina research
1:10
facility.
1:11
Let's take a look at one of the
1:14
videos that PETA has provided showing really what's
1:17
behind the horror of monkeys in research.
1:49
So, as we've said, and I'll have to
1:52
say, unfortunately, all 43 research monkeys who escaped
1:57
the South Carolina facility have been recaptured.
2:00
Let's go straight out to Amy Meyer of
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People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.
2:06
You are PETA's primate experimentation associate director.
2:12
What is the breaking news regarding these 43
2:16
monkeys?
2:17
Well, so the breaking news is that PETA,
2:20
through a records request, has received the USDA
2:24
inspection report about this incident.
2:27
And they did get cited with a violation
2:30
for this, but it was only a non
2:33
-critical violation.
2:35
And it's wild to us that 43 monkeys
2:38
can escape your property, some of them being
2:41
gone for months.
2:43
And when they did this inspection, there were
2:45
still four who were unaccounted for, and they
2:48
still said not critical violation.
2:50
So that's why we fired off a letter
2:52
to the USDA saying, how can this not
2:55
be a critical violation of these monkeys being
2:58
on the loose, getting into who knows what?
3:01
And probably, I mean, the temperatures during this
3:04
time got so low, it's inconceivable that this
3:08
is not a critical violation of the federal
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animal welfare laws that are meant to try
3:14
to give these animals some basic protection.
3:18
It's absolutely crazy.
3:20
And it's just part of the entire, what
3:23
I would say, a lack of monitoring by
3:27
the US government when it comes to all
3:32
of these horrific animal experiments.
3:37
Now, you've pointed out this lab in Columbia
3:40
was funded by the National Institutes of Health.
3:43
The monkeys were left in their waste.
3:45
They died from their diseases and neglect.
3:50
The NIH, the National Institutes of Health, never
3:54
inspected this facility, and it is a hellhole.
3:58
And this is just one of the many
4:02
foreign research labs that our government, our taxpayers,
4:08
my tax dollars are forced to subsidise.
4:11
And why?
4:12
I mean, this is absolutely insane.
4:15
I'd like to go to Dr. Lisa Jones
4:17
Engel.
4:17
You are also with People for the Ethical
4:21
Treatment of Animals.
4:21
You're their primate experimentation science advisor.
4:25
Tell us, you know, why is it that
4:27
there isn't more concern about the waste of
4:32
money, the absolute waste of our tax dollars
4:36
when it comes to these ridiculous experiments?
4:41
Well, I think there is growing concern because
4:43
there's been growing transparency.
4:44
You know, these 43 monkeys getting out of
4:46
the Alpha Genesis facility, you know, the world
4:49
had never really seen an escape like that
4:51
before.
4:51
They'd never seen monkeys who were supposed to
4:55
have been kept in a cage kind of
4:57
doing what the monkey thing that they're supposed
4:59
to be doing.
5:00
And I think that has really, that's caught
5:02
people's attention.
5:04
And the question of why, why is there
5:07
outrage?
5:09
Well, the failed science, the injuries to the
5:11
animals, the endangered species that these animals, basically
5:15
some of these species are being driven to
5:19
extinction.
5:20
People have heard about it now.
5:22
And once people hear, once people see, they
5:24
cannot look away.
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And I think that is, that has been
5:29
devastating to this industry who has banked on
5:32
the idea, literally banked on the idea that
5:35
no one gets to look at But we're
5:38
looking very closely.
5:40
That generated so many headlines, that monkey escape
5:44
story, precisely because they found three one day
5:48
for the other day.
5:50
Every time they found a few more, they
5:53
would do more news about it.
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And it's sad because PETA works so hard,
5:59
so hard to get news about the heartbreaking
6:03
stupidity of these experiments that do not help
6:07
animals.
6:08
And yet it's hard to get the media
6:10
to cover that.
6:11
But then when some of these monkeys escape
6:13
and you're looking at happy monkeys in the
6:15
wild, they actually have an island, which I
6:18
just learned recently, they have an island near
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the United States or part of the United
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States.
6:24
Dr. Lisa, if you could explain where they
6:26
take these happy monkeys who are living in
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families and they abduct them and they stick
6:31
them in cages.
6:33
Well, this is, I mean, one of the
6:34
really horrific parts of this.
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This whole thing is bad.
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But these 43 who escaped, they were a
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part of a group of 50 of them
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that were taken from Morgan Island, which is
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about 40, 50 miles from the Smithsonian Embassy.
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That island has had four generations of racist
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macaques whose grandparents and great grandparents were actually
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stolen from India and brought over.
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But those animals have lived on that island.
7:00
They know everyone.
7:02
Every single monkey on that island is either
7:04
related or it's a brother, it's a sister,
7:06
it's an aunt or an uncle.
7:08
And so when those cage doors were left
7:11
open and 43 of them ran out, you
7:14
know why they stayed around and they just
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didn't immediately take off?
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It's because macaques are like marines.
7:21
No monkey is left behind.
7:23
So those seven who were still in there,
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every one of those animals would have known
7:27
them.
7:29
It would have been someone to them that
7:31
they, it could have been their mother, it
7:32
could have been their sister.
7:34
They stayed as long as they could to
7:37
try to get them out, to be with
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them.
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And that is, that's horrifying to anyone who
7:44
thinks about what these animals, they had, they
7:47
were free, but they were not going to
7:49
leave their friends behind.
7:53
Well, McKenna Grace Fitcher says, this has to
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be stopped.
7:57
How people cannot understand the sickening practise of
8:00
torture and killing primates renders me sick.
8:04
And that's how we all feel.
8:06
And now there is an opportunity and I
8:08
want to be careful.
8:09
Of course, this is breaking news.
8:11
A lot is happening in Washington right now.
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And the first thing I want to say
8:16
is that animal experimentation has long been a
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bipartisan problem.
8:21
Okay.
8:21
We're not talking politics right now.
8:24
I can tell you the monkeys being tortured
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in these laboratories do not care whether the
8:30
people who get them out are Democrats, Republicans,
8:33
conservatives, liberals, libertarians, socialists, Green Party members, or
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what have you.
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They just want to get the electroids out
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of their brains.
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They want to get out of the cages.
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Now, because there is a massive move to
8:49
cut federal budgets in Washington, D.C., we
8:54
have what I would call a unique opportunity
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to get this message out and say, if
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you're going to cut, the first place that
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you should cut is these ridiculous experiments.
9:08
So you may have seen the headlines in
9:10
recent days.
9:11
National Institute of Health cuts billions of dollars
9:15
in biomedical funding effectively immediately.
9:18
National Institutes of Health has announced it's slashing
9:22
funding for indirect research costs.
9:25
The agency estimated that it could save $4
9:28
billion by capping indirect costs at 15%.
9:32
Well, that I greeted as great news.
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The rest of the mainstream media did not
9:41
greet it that way.
9:42
Time magazine, I think, had the most alarmist
9:46
headline of all, saying the NIH budget cuts
9:49
are the apocalypse of American science, experts say.
9:53
And sure enough, a federal judge has just
9:55
blocked the cuts to medical funding.
9:59
Again, I want to say very clearly, we're
10:01
not talking partisan politics.
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This has been a bipartisan catastrophe for decades.
10:08
These monkeys have been subjected to the same
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research over and over again, you know, cut
10:15
up, you know, blinded, addicted to cocaine, terrified
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under Republican administrations, Democrat administrations.
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It's been happening for decades.
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If there is a unique opportunity to end
10:32
this, I say let's go for it.
10:34
Let's do a little roundtable.
10:36
Amy, where are you on this?
10:37
Well, I absolutely agree.
10:40
And there's, you know, we are wasting billions
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and billions of dollars through the National Institutes
10:45
of Health every year, doing these horrific experiments
10:48
on monkeys, where they are addicted to drugs,
10:51
they are, have electrodes implanted in their brains,
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all kinds of hideous experiments.
10:57
And of course, they're all confined to these
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tiny metal cages.
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They never feel the warmth of the sun,
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they never get freedom, they never get to
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live with their families.
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And it's all with our taxpayer dollars.
11:09
And what's interesting about this move now to
11:12
target these indirect research costs, when you look
11:15
at who some of the worst offenders are
11:17
of having outrageously high indirect research costs, it's
11:22
the National Primate Research Centres, the Washington National
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Primate Research Centre has 80% of its
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funding that gets from the NIH for these
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experiments on monkeys are in this indirect cost
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bucket, which means it's not the expenses for
11:38
the needs of the research itself, it kind
11:42
of covers the administration costs.
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And it's, it's so high, because it costs
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a lot of money just to keep the
11:49
lights on in a facility where you are
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housing these sensitive animals.
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And so PETA saying we need to be
11:56
focussing on the worst offenders that are wasting
11:59
the most amount of money, and are constantly
12:01
breaking federal animal welfare laws, they're led by
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people who have been found to have research
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misconduct.
12:10
These places are terrible for animals, they're not
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well run.
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And they're the most giant waste of money.
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So that's where we really want to focus
12:20
the most of getting just this fraud taken
12:23
care of.
12:24
So where, where are we?
12:27
Again, getting back to what McKenna Grace Fitcher
12:29
said, this has to be stopped.
12:31
How people cannot understand the sickening practise of
12:34
torture and killing done to these primates renders
12:36
me sick.
12:37
But I have to say, Amy, that every
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time you try to cut these budgets, people
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scream, Oh, my God, America is going to
12:45
lose its place in science.
12:47
Oh, my God, people are going to die,
12:50
never really talking about the fact that at
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least 95% of the experiments on animals
12:58
are completely useless when it comes to human
13:02
beings.
13:02
Because guess what, we don't have tails, we
13:04
don't have paws.
13:06
We don't have claws.
13:08
Dogs will die if they eat too much
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chocolate or grapes.
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That doesn't apply to people.
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So Dr. Lisa Jones Engel, what can we
13:17
do in this unique opportunity where there is
13:20
budget cutting going on in Washington, D.C.
13:22
to make sure that these wasteful experiments are
13:25
priority number one?
13:28
You know what?
13:29
I think that what we're seeing now is
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maybe an extinction level event for primate users,
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particularly in the National Primate Research Centres.
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But anyone who is experimenting on primates, it's
13:41
the amount of money that's being spent and
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the amount, the consistent level of failures, everyone
13:47
sees that now.
13:49
And I think this is going through and
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shutting down the National Primate Research Centres, these
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facilities.
13:54
So keep in mind, when a monkey is
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in a cage, there's only one thing that
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they're thinking about, and that's how do I
14:00
get out?
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And so these indirect costs are part of
14:05
these are kind of measures to try to
14:07
keep the animals in, to make sure that
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all the doors are secure, that the cages
14:10
are strong, that the staff is there, that
14:13
everything is in place.
14:14
But the monkeys are consistently figuring it out.
14:18
Alpha genesis monkeys leave, UW Primate Centre monkeys
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leave.
14:22
Every single primate centre sees these animals escaping.
14:25
And I think with that transparency and with
14:29
the clear evidence that the science is failing,
14:32
do we have an HIV vaccine?
14:33
No.
14:34
Do we have a malaria vaccine?
14:35
Do we have a TB vaccine?
14:36
No.
14:37
But for decades, every one of those vaccines
14:40
have been developed and supposedly tested safe in
14:44
monkeys in these facilities.
14:45
And every single time that fails.
14:48
And I think what has happened is that
14:52
on both sides of the aisle, the politicians
14:55
are saying enough, enough of wasting taxpayer dollars.
14:59
If we want good science, there's better ways
15:01
to get science, to get good results than
15:03
to put a monkey in a cage and
15:05
expect that animal that we have not shared
15:07
a common ancestor with for 24 million years
15:10
to give us any information, any reliable, translatable
15:14
information about ourselves.
15:16
So I'm, I, I think this is it.
15:19
This is the animal experimenters in institutions were
15:24
always considered the rainmakers because they brought in
15:26
multi-million dollar grants with these massive indirect
15:30
costs attached to them that the institutions were
15:33
like, yummy.
15:34
I'll just, I'll eat, eat all of this
15:35
up.
15:36
But that, that tap is going to be
15:38
turned off.
15:39
And then the institutions, the, the harm benefit
15:42
analysis, they're going to be forced to do,
15:44
you know, the benefit of getting a lot
15:45
of money from monkey studies versus the harm,
15:49
which is, you know, the outrage, the, the
15:52
uncertainness of the reliability of the research of
15:56
the, of people suing them for, for their
15:59
bad actions.
16:00
That's those harms really quickly outweighing the benefits.
16:04
So, okay.
16:05
What can we do with the backlash against
16:07
the proposed cuts?
16:09
Again, if you're just joining us, there's so
16:12
much breaking news on this front right now,
16:14
but the bottom line is that due to,
16:19
again, this is a bipartisan issue.
16:21
I'm not talking politics, partisan politics.
16:24
I'm talking, get the monkeys out of the
16:26
cages, get all these animals out of the
16:28
cages.
16:29
So due to a new administration wanting to
16:32
slash federal funding, the National Institutes of Health
16:38
cuts billions of dollars in biomedical funding effective
16:42
immediately.
16:43
That's a headline.
16:45
Okay.
16:45
But what happened was just very recently there
16:51
was a huge backlash.
16:53
And for example, Time Magazine saying it's the
16:56
apocalypse of American science and a federal judge
16:59
has at least temporarily blocked the current administration
17:02
from making these cuts to these research programmes.
17:07
And so where does that leave us now,
17:10
Amy?
17:10
I mean, how can we get to the
17:13
powers that be and make the point that,
17:16
hey, and it doesn't matter whether you think
17:20
a broken clock is right twice a day
17:22
or the law of unintended consequences, however you
17:24
want to analyse this in your mind, this
17:28
particular cut is good.
17:32
We're wasting billions of dollars, torturing millions of
17:37
animals and nothing to see from it.
17:39
I'll just say 30 years ago, 30 years
17:42
ago, I was asked by a very big
17:44
organisation to lead a walk, okay, for a
17:48
cure of some sort.
17:50
I'm not going to identify the organisation, so
17:53
don't take any hints from that.
17:54
And we went to lunch and I started
17:57
asking questions.
17:57
I said, well, what are you doing with
17:58
the money?
17:59
I said, do you do animal experimentation?
18:01
Before I left the restaurant, I got a
18:03
message.
18:03
You're off the hook.
18:04
You don't have to lead that march anymore.
18:08
We don't want you.
18:11
See, when you start asking questions, they don't
18:13
want you.
18:13
That was 30 years ago.
18:15
So I tell people, ask questions, but what
18:18
can we do at this particularly crucial juncture,
18:23
Amy, to make sure that the folks who
18:25
are, let's face it, they're laughing all the
18:29
way to the bank with this money coming
18:30
into the universities.
18:34
How can we counteract that narrative?
18:37
I mean, I think that it is important
18:39
to keep sharing information.
18:41
Go to PETA.org.
18:42
You can learn about what is happening at
18:44
the National Primate Research Centres like the one
18:47
at the University of Washington.
18:49
And you can take simple action steps, right,
18:51
on those pages on PETA.org to encourage
18:55
the National Institutes of Health to stop funding
18:58
these primate research centres.
19:00
The judge has at least stalled right now
19:03
this across-the-board cut that would impact
19:05
other research too, not only experiments done on
19:08
animals, but where we could at least find
19:11
like the most easy cut, I think, is
19:14
to stop funding these primate research centres that
19:16
are not only wasting millions and millions of
19:19
dollars every year.
19:21
They are torturing thousands of monkeys.
19:24
They have been found to violate Federal Animal
19:26
Welfare Act dozens of times, including some really,
19:31
really gross ones and just really heinous ones,
19:35
like leaving a monkey in a cage when
19:37
they put it through this high-pressure, high
19:39
-heat cage washer killing them.
19:42
They are just a mess.
19:44
And so go to PETA.org to take
19:46
action or go beyond that and send an
19:51
email to your member of Congress saying, I
19:53
support cutting funding for these places.
19:56
Let's have the National Institutes of Health cut
19:59
funding to these experiments on monkeys.
20:03
So many of them are now endangered monkeys.
20:07
We are literally decimating the forests and their
20:10
natural homes of these animals to be experimenting
20:13
on them here.
20:14
Let's put an end to all of this
20:16
and save taxpayer money in the process.
20:21
I mean, when you look at these animals
20:23
in the wild, their innocence, their beauty, obviously
20:27
they love their fellow monkeys.
20:30
They live in family groups.
20:32
What we're doing is, I don't even have
20:35
words for it, mediaeval, barbaric, psychotic.
20:41
Yes, that's what it is.
20:43
And again, these experiments are not accomplishing anything.
20:48
We are in the 21st century.
20:50
There are organs on a chip.
20:52
We look at things from the molecular and
20:55
the submolecular level.
20:57
You don't need to be injecting cocaine into
21:01
these monkeys.
21:03
Just the number of experiments.
21:06
Amy, can you give us a list of
21:08
some of the most ridiculous, and they're all
21:11
ridiculous in my book, but I know there
21:13
was this one experiment where they would make
21:16
the monkeys pregnant and then take the babies
21:19
away and then scare the mama monkey with
21:21
all sorts of rattlesnakes and then drug the
21:25
mama monkey so the baby couldn't wake mama
21:28
up.
21:28
I mean, it's something out of a horror
21:31
movie.
21:31
It's out of like The Exorcist or one
21:35
of these slasher movies.
21:37
That's really what's going on.
21:39
I think these experimenters need to have psychological
21:42
evaluations, in my opinion.
21:45
Yeah.
21:45
I mean, that one is particularly awful.
21:48
There's no such thing as an illegal experiment
21:52
on animals in this country.
21:54
Whatever they can dream up, if they can
21:57
get their committee friends to agree with it,
21:59
it happens.
22:00
You see all kinds of silly research going
22:04
on.
22:04
It's just clearly, why do we need to
22:06
be doing this when we don't?
22:07
There's so much just curiosity-driven experiments.
22:11
I know I live in Oregon, and the
22:13
Oregon National Primate Research Centre, I remember reading
22:16
a story about experimenters who were giving THC
22:21
to monkeys and then attaching these electrodes to
22:26
their penises to see what the sperm count
22:29
level does with different amounts of THC in
22:31
their system.
22:32
It's just completely irrelevant to anything, to any
22:35
type of cure that people are hoping for.
22:38
And we have experimenters who are taking babies
22:41
away from their mothers and then making it
22:43
so that they never see a face, even
22:45
a human face for the first year of
22:48
their life to see how much that messes
22:51
them up and their eyesight up.
22:53
These are terrible, awful experiments.
22:59
What's really particularly tragic with primate experiments to
23:03
me is that some of these monkeys are
23:05
living in these conditions for decades.
23:08
Some of these monkeys, we read a story
23:11
recently of a University of Washington, who this
23:15
monkey's life started in Madison in a laboratory.
23:19
Then they went with this experimenter, Michelle Basso,
23:21
to UCLA, and then she went to Seattle.
23:24
And so this monkey was born in 1994
23:26
and was just killed a couple years ago.
23:29
These monkeys can live so many years, and
23:32
it's just every single day is horror beyond
23:35
the experiments, beyond the terrible things happening in
23:38
the experiment itself.
23:39
It's unconscionable to think of these highly social
23:42
animals living alone in a stainless steel cage
23:46
where the lights come on at the same
23:48
time each day, they go off each time
23:49
each day, and they have no control over
23:53
their life at all.
23:54
The only thing they can control is tearing
23:57
out their own hair or eating their own
24:00
fingers because they're driven so mad by these
24:03
conditions.
24:05
It just needs to end.
24:07
It can end.
24:08
It should end.
24:09
Maybe we actually will be seeing this now
24:12
that there is real talk of the funding
24:16
being stopped.
24:16
That's why this is all happening.
24:18
It's all about the money.
24:20
If we target the money, I have hope
24:23
that this is how we can start making
24:24
a really serious impact on not having so
24:27
many monkeys being tortured and killed in these
24:30
places.
24:31
Well, I agree.
24:32
I don't care why you're trying to stop
24:34
it.
24:34
If you have an irrational reason for stopping,
24:37
I don't care.
24:38
Stop it.
24:39
Let's stop it.
24:41
I want to go to another breaking news
24:44
story.
24:44
There's so many breaking news stories on the
24:46
primate experimentation front.
24:48
PETA has led the way trying to stop
24:51
an outrageous plan to put 30,000 monkeys
24:56
in a small town in Georgia, and the
25:00
people there are up in arms.
25:02
Let's watch a local news report that was
25:04
very well done on the issue that we're
25:06
going to discuss on the other side.
25:08
A year later, Bainbridge neighbours are still voicing
25:12
their concerns about a monkey facility project by
25:15
pulling out all the stops.
25:17
These are the cages that the monkeys will
25:19
be transported in if we don't put a
25:22
stop to this.
25:23
Even county leaders who originally voted for the
25:26
project but later rescinded their vote spoke out
25:29
at a monkey expo Thursday night.
25:33
And I said early on we made a
25:35
mistake.
25:36
As the fate of the primate facility hangs
25:38
in the balance of the courts, Bainbridge residents
25:41
say they're hopeful they can shut down the
25:43
project.
25:44
We're standing that it's not going to come
25:46
here.
25:47
We don't want it here.
25:49
Lena Allen, WALV, your hometown news source.
25:53
Thank you for that report.
25:55
We appreciate it.
25:56
So, Amy, what's the latest on that breaking
25:59
story?
26:00
Yeah, well, I mean, that latest, that was
26:02
a town hall.
26:03
It was about a year after this fight
26:06
started, and as you can see in the
26:08
video, it's still packed.
26:10
These local residents are not giving up in
26:12
Bainbridge.
26:13
They are fighters.
26:14
They are set on keeping this terrible project
26:18
that would be imprisoning 30,000 monkeys when
26:22
it's at full capacity in their town, which
26:24
only has like 9,000 humans in it.
26:27
So they're fighting so hard, and there are
26:30
now four ongoing lawsuits related to this case
26:34
to try to stop it.
26:35
So there's lawsuits trying to get at the
26:38
lack of transparency that was involved from city
26:41
leaders in bringing this project to their community,
26:44
and then there's also a lawsuit, a nuisance
26:48
case talking about all the ways that this
26:50
would create a nuisance for the people, especially
26:53
right around where the proposed facility is taking
26:55
place.
26:56
And now we even see the state of
26:59
Georgia stepping up and trying to undo some
27:02
of this mess, too, and trying to appeal
27:05
it to the Georgia Supreme Court to undo
27:08
this terrible bond deal, which was like the
27:10
sweetheart package of money to give this brand
27:13
new company to bring this dreadful project to
27:16
Bainbridge.
27:17
So I have to play the response given
27:20
to that particular local news outlet from the
27:23
folks who want to create this.
27:25
Safer Human Medicine is excited to collaborate with
27:28
the Development Authority to advance this project.
27:30
Support for this project is growing, with many
27:32
residents from Decatur County already expressing strong interest
27:35
in job opportunities.
27:37
What is your response to that?
27:39
We'll start with Amy, then we'll go to
27:40
Lisa.
27:41
Well, I mean, even the locals who I
27:43
met with there and who I continue to
27:45
meet with it, it's hard to find anyone
27:47
in Bainbridge who actually wants us there.
27:49
I very much have doubts about their statement
27:52
itself, and people just realise that this is
27:56
not only a matter of cruelty to the
27:59
animals.
28:00
For the people there, it threatens their water
28:02
system because of how many monkeys would be
28:05
in this monkey factory farm.
28:07
It threatens their way of life.
28:09
It threatens the potential disease outbreak in these
28:13
facilities.
28:15
It's just a complete mess, and I think
28:18
that we're going to stop it.
28:20
I fully think it is going to be
28:22
stopped.
28:22
These people are not backing down.
28:25
They, like I said, they are fighters and
28:27
they're not backing down.
28:29
And how does the whole budget cut initiative
28:33
in Washington dovetail with that?
28:36
Because a lot of the experiments that these
28:39
monkeys, these poor monkeys would be used in,
28:41
would be taxpayer funded through the National Institutes
28:43
of Health, which is the largest funder of
28:47
animal experimentation in the world.
28:50
Lisa?
28:51
Exactly.
28:52
I mean, what, you know, Safer Human Medicine
28:54
was supposed to have had their first monkey
28:56
out the door for sale in December, and
28:58
they haven't laid a single brick because this
29:00
town is not going to let them do
29:02
that.
29:02
They're going to use every resource they have
29:05
to stop this facility from coming to ground.
29:08
And I think what Safer Human Medicine is
29:10
also not being forthright about is that the
29:15
use of primates in the pharmaceutical industry, which
29:19
is who they would be selling these monkeys
29:20
to, the clients are not using as many
29:23
monkeys as they used to.
29:25
The value, and I put that in big
29:27
air quotes, of these monkeys has dropped precipitously.
29:30
This, you know, they thought this was going
29:32
to be a massive moneymaker, and it's not
29:35
going to be.
29:36
The demand is drying up, the supply is
29:40
changing, and the awareness that people have of
29:43
alternatives is meaning that the scientific community themselves
29:46
are saying, no, I'm not going to waste
29:48
my time and money and resources on a
29:52
monkey model.
29:53
I'm going to use a human relevant model,
29:56
and they are.
29:56
And so, you know, Safer Human Medicine has
29:59
lost this one here in Georgia.
30:01
They're clinging on with their fingernails, but I
30:04
don't see how they're ever going to be
30:05
able to go forward with this.
30:07
Well, I want to say we invite Safer
30:10
Human Medicine or any of the experimenters on
30:13
primates or other animals that have been mentioned
30:15
on anytime.
30:16
I would love to dialogue with them.
30:19
Now, let's talk about what PETA has done
30:23
in terms of creating a roadmap for research
30:27
modernisation.
30:28
Again, newsflash to all those animal experimenters out
30:32
there, we're in the 21st century, and there
30:36
are plenty of more sophisticated and more modern
30:39
methods of doing science than the mediaeval practise
30:43
of torturing animals.
30:44
You know, they've been breaking dog spinal cords
30:46
since before Christ to see what happens, and
30:48
they're still doing it.
30:50
And nothing has changed in a lot of
30:52
ways.
30:53
It's so crazy that people buy this.
30:56
But let's check out PETA's plan for research
31:00
modernisation.
31:01
Did you know that 95% of new
31:03
drugs fail in human trials?
31:05
All had passed animal testing, but ended up
31:08
being either harmful or useless for the people
31:10
who needed them.
31:10
We need to end this waste, and we
31:13
need to do it now.
31:15
Research Modernisation Now, a roadmap developed by scientists,
31:19
will shift science away from pointless and cruel
31:21
experiments on animals, and toward life-saving research
31:24
that can really help humans.
31:26
Discover three ways you can stop wasting lives
31:29
and tax funds today.
31:31
So tell us, Amy, about PETA's roadmap for
31:36
research modernisation now.
31:38
Yeah, well, it's really the only comprehensive and
31:41
common sense strategy for carefully replacing animal experiments
31:45
with things like organs on a chip, artificial
31:48
intelligence, sophisticated computer modelling.
31:52
And what it really builds in is just
31:55
some priorities of first stopping the experiments on
31:58
animals where there is profound and expansive evidence
32:02
that it is not working, where the numbers
32:05
are even higher than that 95% failure
32:08
of drugs rate.
32:11
And then it also builds in a plan
32:15
for training, of training new scientists in these
32:17
better, more human-relevant models.
32:20
It's really a wonderful comprehensive plan, and this
32:24
is something that is so easy for people
32:26
to take action to support this effort.
32:30
You can go to PETA.org, and it's
32:33
really easy if you're a US citizen.
32:35
You can take action to send a letter
32:37
to your member of Congress to support this
32:39
effort.
32:40
It's really, it would encompass everything.
32:43
It doesn't, it's not only just about research
32:46
happening on universities, experiments on animals happening at
32:49
universities, but it's also about just the whole
32:53
picture and really changing our priorities, especially through
32:58
the National Institutes of Health, like we've been
33:00
talking about.
33:00
This would get at the big picture, start
33:02
getting cures faster, and stop torturing animals in
33:07
needless experiments.
33:08
But you hit on a very important point.
33:10
This is holding back life-saving research because
33:15
it doesn't work.
33:17
So doing it over and over again and
33:19
torturing all these animals, some of these experiments
33:22
have gone on for decades, doing the same
33:24
exact thing over and over again, because as
33:27
I understand it, Dr. Lisa, it's easy to
33:30
come up with a project that involves killing
33:32
animals.
33:33
Like, well, we're going to find out whether,
33:35
how long it takes 50% of these
33:37
animals to die.
33:38
It takes a lot more creativity to come
33:41
up with something that is not just, oh,
33:45
here's the death toll, and what might that
33:48
or might not have that, have an impact
33:51
on humans.
33:53
You know what, they call it science, but
33:55
it's really, it's just monkey business.
33:58
It is about the business of using primates.
34:01
I'm a primatologist, so I speak mostly about
34:04
the primates, but it's about how do you
34:06
squeeze the most out of these monkeys to
34:09
kind of prop up your business or to
34:12
generate your next publication?
34:15
It's not science, it's a business.
34:18
And these monkeys have paid the price for
34:20
this for more than a century, and it's
34:23
going to stop.
34:24
And I think when the taxpayer realises that
34:28
they too are paying the price, they're paying
34:31
for the monkey, they're paying for the infrastructure,
34:33
they're paying these massive salaries for these experimenters
34:37
and the administrators, they're going to say, no,
34:40
that's not what I pay my taxes for.
34:45
I pay my taxes to do good research,
34:49
to do sound research.
34:51
And so I think that this move to
34:54
really dramatically reduce the IDCs, it is going
34:58
to hit the animal researchers the heaviest because
35:01
they are the biggest consumers of these resources.
35:05
And I think the scientific and the political
35:09
community are done with that.
35:11
Well, a very interesting point by Milofar Ashgarian,
35:17
the animal experimental industrial complex has to fall.
35:21
It is a complex.
35:22
And I have to say being in the
35:24
media, the media is part of the complex.
35:26
Again, if you look at the media coverage
35:29
of the NIH proposed funding cuts, you'd think
35:33
the sky was falling.
35:35
Oh my God, it's the end of the
35:37
world, an apocalypse, blah, blah, blah.
35:40
But when you try to tell these same
35:43
media organisations, right, that, hey, look at the
35:48
stats, look at the outcomes, more than 95
35:52
% of these experiments do not work.
35:56
Basically, you're ignored.
35:58
I wish you weren't.
35:59
But how are we going to do with
36:02
the media coverage, Amy?
36:04
I think that's a great question, Jane.
36:06
I wish I knew the answer.
36:07
But it's interesting to me that you even
36:11
see people who are defenders of the NIH,
36:14
they recognise a lot of the problems that
36:17
the NIH has, even the people who defend
36:19
it.
36:19
There is other issues beyond the animals being
36:22
tortured that concern people.
36:24
There is duplication happening across the country.
36:28
There is research misconduct happening that people are
36:33
being caught for.
36:34
There's all kinds of issues.
36:36
It should be, I think that it has
36:38
been clear to a lot of people, even
36:40
the most staunch supporters, that there needs to
36:43
be some significant reforms at the NIH.
36:46
And, you know, maybe just this kind of
36:49
blanket sweep option is what has people so
36:52
upset and afraid.
36:54
And it was so fast.
36:55
And usually, government is very slow to do
36:58
anything.
36:58
So maybe that's part of why we're seeing
37:01
the reaction we are.
37:03
But yeah, it is just a challenge with
37:07
media, Jane.
37:08
And a lot of them, you know, rely
37:11
on some of these very industries that are
37:13
making a lot of money.
37:14
These universities are really powerful with local media,
37:17
with local politicians.
37:19
And so it was not a surprise at
37:21
all that we saw just the next business
37:24
day, 22 states had joined this lawsuit to
37:27
try to stop the cuts that are being
37:31
proposed at the NIH.
37:33
You know, they're fighting against it, which I
37:35
wasn't really surprised to see, to be honest.
37:37
This is, it means a lot of money
37:39
to basically every state.
37:42
Well, also the media, if you look at
37:44
the TV commercials, it's pharmaceuticals.
37:47
There's a huge, huge pharmaceutical.
37:50
I personally think it's crazy that we have
37:53
advertising that says, ask your doctor for this
37:57
pill.
37:57
Hello?
37:58
The doctors are supposed to assess what's wrong
38:01
with you and make a recommendation.
38:02
You're not supposed to go to the doctor
38:04
like you're some drug addict looking for a
38:07
drug pusher to give you your fix.
38:09
You're supposed to go to a doctor and
38:11
the doctor is supposed to say, okay, I
38:14
think this is what's wrong with you.
38:15
This is what you should do.
38:16
But we've turned that on its head with
38:18
these commercials.
38:19
And so of course, you're going to see
38:21
the media reacting in the way it's reacting.
38:25
Oh, the sky's falling, these budget cuts.
38:29
It's all the pillars, all the pillars of
38:32
government and our democracy have been overtaken by
38:37
these industries.
38:38
And it's the courts to a certain degree,
38:41
we'll see what the courts do.
38:43
It's the media, which is the fourth estate.
38:47
And it's the members of Congress as well
38:50
who get, I believe the pharmaceutical industry is
38:54
the largest, has the largest number of lobbyists
38:57
in Washington.
38:59
Lisa?
39:01
I mean, one of the other things we
39:03
haven't really touched on, but now that you
39:05
brought up the pharmaceutical industry on this, now
39:07
this industry has been bringing in tens of
39:09
thousands of monkeys from Asia and Mauritius every
39:13
year.
39:13
And these animals have been arriving into the
39:16
US infected with multiple strains of tuberculosis, with
39:19
deadly diarrhoeal pathogens, with a tier one select
39:23
agent.
39:24
This industry is actually more likely to trigger
39:26
the next pandemic than it is to provide
39:29
meaningful improvements in human health.
39:32
And trying to get the media to talk
39:34
about that, that's been a real uphill battle
39:37
as well.
39:38
But that's the thing I think, and it's
39:39
not just the pharmaceutical industry, within the primate
39:42
centres themselves, we get reports of workers who
39:47
get infected with things like Shigella or MRSA
39:49
or tuberculosis.
39:52
This is an incredibly dangerous industry, certainly for
39:55
the monkeys, but also for the people who
39:58
are working in it, which in large part
39:59
is why this industry really has a terrible
40:02
time maintaining staffing.
40:05
Wow.
40:05
Well, you know, there's a lot of talk
40:07
these days about the 80-20 rule, that
40:10
80% of outcomes are determined by 20
40:13
% of inputs.
40:14
And that's where I see abusive animals across
40:17
the board.
40:18
Our abuse of animals is creating at least
40:20
80% of the problems that we're dealing
40:22
with societally.
40:23
I mean, whether you're talking about the pandemics,
40:25
it doesn't matter whether you think it started
40:27
in the Wuhan wet market where they were
40:28
torturing animals to chop them up to sell
40:31
them to be eaten, or you thought it
40:33
started in the Wuhan lab where they were
40:34
torturing animals in their various tests.
40:38
It was animal torture.
40:39
Now we've got the bird flu.
40:41
And the list goes on and on.
40:45
Certainly the health care costs as a result
40:48
of our unhealthy diet, which is subsidised by
40:50
the US government in its subsidies of commodity
40:53
crops that are fed to animals and subsidies
40:56
of farmers, bailing them out for natural disasters,
41:00
et cetera, et cetera.
41:01
I mean, the list goes on and on
41:03
of all the problems that are created by
41:05
our government's subsidy of animal abuse.
41:09
And I just hope that even if the
41:11
people who are looking at this do not
41:13
care about animals at all, they're only trying
41:15
to cut the budget, that they look at
41:17
all of this.
41:19
And of course, particularly the abuse of animals
41:22
and specifically primates.
41:24
You know, I guess I wanted to ask,
41:28
how is PETA able to weigh in on
41:30
this debate right now?
41:32
Is there a way to get to those
41:35
people who are making those decisions and say,
41:37
hey, here's another reason why you should cut
41:40
or not?
41:41
Amy?
41:42
Yeah, absolutely.
41:44
We are working on getting our information to
41:47
as many people as we can who are
41:49
in positions of power.
41:50
We are always trying to get our good,
41:53
solid, scientifically backed information to people in power
41:56
and making it so that the agenda they're
42:00
wanting to push is one that could help
42:02
animals.
42:03
That is something, this could be doing so
42:06
much good for animals in laboratories.
42:08
If they want to look at cutting funding
42:11
to the NIH, there's so much that could
42:15
be done to cut funding that is just
42:18
torturing animals.
42:19
They've been doing it decade after decade, countless
42:22
animals dead with nothing to show for it.
42:26
We've talked about how devastating it is for
42:28
the animals, for the workers inside of these
42:30
places, but it's also devastating for all of
42:33
us because we don't have the cures that
42:35
we all are desperately hoping for ourselves or
42:38
our family or our friends.
42:40
If we can embrace PETA's research modernisation now
42:44
and start investing instead in these more human
42:47
relevant forms of research and put all those
42:51
billions of dollars we're wasting, tormenting 100 million
42:54
animals every year, if we funnel that instead
42:56
to these human relevant research models, we're going
43:00
to get to those answers that we all
43:02
are looking for much faster and without torturing
43:06
and killing anyone in the process.
43:08
Well, from your mouth to God's ear, I
43:11
hope that this all comes together.
43:14
Again, it is just a really unique opportunity.
43:22
Amira John says, one has to be a
43:24
sadist to work in this industry and totally
43:26
out of touch with reality.
43:28
If this was about science, they would have
43:30
discovered another way long ago.
43:34
Yes, it really is about money and it's
43:38
about basically people who are living lavish lifestyles
43:44
off of government funding, doing these nonsensical experiments
43:49
that are incredibly cruel over and over again,
43:51
and the universities encourage it because they get
43:55
a that's exactly what it is.
44:02
When you get your grant from the National
44:04
Institutes of Health and you say, all right,
44:06
it's going to cost me a half million
44:08
dollars over a year for five years to
44:11
do whatever experiments that I'm planning on these
44:14
monkeys.
44:15
The university, I'll speak to the University of
44:19
Washington because that's the one where I was
44:20
working at and most familiar with, NIH gives
44:23
them another 83 cents on that dollar for
44:26
these indirect costs.
44:28
The incentive for the university to keep this
44:33
gravy train rolling is astonishing.
44:36
The incentive for the investigator, the experimenter to
44:40
end up with a $200,000, $300,000,
44:43
$400,000 annual salary as they are just
44:47
grinding through this taxpayer money, it's all been
44:51
laid out there for them.
44:52
This has been the standard.
44:54
This has been what's been acceptable for decades
44:58
and what happened last week, earlier this week,
45:01
when the idea that that gravy train would
45:05
be cut off, people are terrified.
45:10
There will be impacts to some of the
45:12
science, but there are some areas of science,
45:14
particularly in the National Research Centres, you could
45:17
wipe those out tomorrow.
45:19
You could end all of that funding tomorrow,
45:21
get those animals into sanctuary, retrain, redirect those
45:24
scientists into meaningful, relevant fields of science, and
45:30
we would all be better for that.
45:32
Wow.
45:33
Well, from your mouth to God's ear, as
45:35
they say, let's hope that happens.
45:39
I've been just grappling with this unique opportunity
45:43
that comes along.
45:45
You don't expect, well, what's going to happen?
45:48
Boom, there's just this window.
45:50
How do we get to the powers that
45:52
be to make sure that this funding is
45:55
cut?
45:57
You have, for example, the Cargo Act, which
46:00
I think is an incredible idea that Pete
46:02
has come up with, which essentially says these
46:05
overseas research labs that taxpayers are funding here
46:10
in the United States, they've got to go.
46:14
There's one particularly horrific example that PETA uncovered
46:19
for two decades.
46:21
This lab was run in Columbia, monkeys left
46:24
in their waste, left to die from infected
46:26
wounds.
46:27
The NIH, which funded, never inspected this laboratory.
46:33
The NIH is using our tax dollars to
46:36
bankroll these hell holes.
46:38
This isn't a lab.
46:39
This isn't science.
46:41
This is a nightmare.
46:43
PETA shut this lab down and wants to
46:47
shut all the other labs around the world
46:50
that our tax dollars are funding shut down.
46:54
That's why I think everybody should support the
46:57
Cargo Act.
46:58
I know if you go to PETA.org,
47:01
you can actually also use your...
47:05
What I love about PETA is that in
47:08
two seconds, you can send a letter.
47:10
They've got it down to a fine science
47:12
where sometimes, once you sign up, I'll get
47:15
these texts.
47:16
Here, just hit Y and it sends a
47:18
dozen letters to members of Congress.
47:20
You definitely want to go to PETA.org
47:23
and get on their list so that I
47:27
get emails, whatever I'm doing, and I get
47:30
an email from PETA and I'm busy, let
47:31
me tell you.
47:32
I stop what I'm doing because I know
47:34
in 30 seconds, I'll be able to send
47:36
a message to a whole bunch of members
47:38
of Congress or whoever else you've suggested that
47:41
we reach out to.
47:42
It's like this, boom, boom, boom, and it's
47:45
done.
47:46
That's why it's important to sign up to
47:48
PETA.org so that you get on that
47:50
list because it's a numbers game.
47:52
Is it not, Amy?
47:54
You're absolutely right.
47:56
As someone who spent a lot of time
47:58
as a grassroots activist before joining PETA, I
48:01
honestly really underestimated the power of these simple
48:05
actions that don't take me any time.
48:07
It is, like you said, just the push
48:09
of a button and this letter is going
48:11
to my member of Congress because I put
48:13
in my address.
48:15
You don't have to know who your member
48:17
of Congress is to encourage them to support
48:19
the Cargo Act.
48:20
You just go to PETA.org, look for
48:22
the Cargo Act and put in your address
48:24
and it will do that all for you.
48:27
Coming on the primate side of things, sometimes
48:31
we have a hard time getting a response
48:33
from an agency.
48:34
They are not responding to us.
48:36
We are trying to work nicely with them.
48:38
We'll send out an action alert to our
48:40
members to say, hey, push this button, send
48:43
this email, we need the Fish and Wildlife
48:44
or whoever to pay attention to us.
48:47
Then sometimes the next day, they're finally calling
48:50
me after me trying for months to get
48:53
a hold of them.
48:53
They're saying, okay, make these emails stop.
48:56
What do you want?
48:57
It's so important.
49:00
It might feel like maybe you don't realise
49:03
how important it is, but from our side
49:05
of things, this is how we create change
49:07
is just this mass mobilisation of people.
49:10
There's all kinds of ways to get involved.
49:13
PETA.org, though, like you said, Jane, that's
49:15
just one easy way you could be getting
49:17
involved every day.
49:18
Yes.
49:19
I love it because a lot of times
49:22
the things that we're working on, we don't
49:24
know what the impact is going to be.
49:26
We don't know if there's a finish line.
49:28
Every time I hit that button with PETA,
49:30
I know, oh, something's gotten done.
49:32
I've hit the finish line, which is so
49:35
rare with animal activism.
49:37
A lot of times you can do a
49:37
lot of things and not know what the
49:39
impact is.
49:40
By the way, we have a very, very
49:43
special guest watching.
49:45
Jenny Desmond says, thanks for all the amazing
49:48
work to PETA.
49:50
She runs the Liberian chimpanzee rescue with her
49:54
husband.
49:55
They have an incredible story where they literally
49:59
upended their lives.
50:01
Her husband's a veterinarian to go to Liberia
50:04
after a whole lot of chimps were abandoned
50:09
by the New York Blood Centre.
50:12
There was a huge controversy.
50:14
Finally, after a lot of activists I was
50:17
there for a few, did die-ins and
50:19
protests, the New York Blood Centre did agree
50:22
to pay for the care of the monkeys
50:26
as they should have from day one.
50:28
Then all these other orphan monkeys started coming
50:31
in and Jenny Desmond and her husband stayed
50:35
in Liberia where they are to this day
50:38
caring for all these other orphan monkeys, orphaned
50:42
from the illegal pet trade, from the bushmeat
50:47
trade, et cetera, et cetera.
50:48
Great work, Jenny.
50:50
We love you and I'm so excited that
50:52
you are watching our show.
50:55
She's probably watching from Liberia, which is great.
50:59
People watch from all around the world.
51:01
We've only got a few minutes, perhaps since
51:04
there are so many breaking news stories surrounding
51:06
the chimpanzee issue, how would you sum it
51:10
up?
51:11
What are your final thoughts, Dr. Lisa?
51:16
We're at a critical point.
51:19
We've seen the scientific community move away here
51:22
in the U.S. from using chimpanzees.
51:23
We saw that a decade ago.
51:25
The scientists said they weren't giving us the
51:28
use of chimps, wasn't giving us the answers,
51:31
the data that we needed.
51:32
Ethically, it was a problem.
51:33
Those animals were then on the Endangered Species
51:35
Act.
51:37
The industry pivoted towards monkeys, towards macaques, and
51:41
we saw a huge burst of grabbing those
51:46
animals from everywhere around the world.
51:48
We're at that next inflexion point.
51:51
Everything is now saying we need to be
51:54
done completely with primates.
51:55
The money is drying up.
51:57
The populations of animals are drying up.
51:59
We've got better scientific ways of getting the
52:02
information we need.
52:03
We now know of the public health risks
52:06
that are associated with using these primates.
52:10
Jane, I think we're at that cusp.
52:14
It just takes people asking the questions, digging
52:17
in, sending the emails, being very vocal about
52:21
this is not how I want my money
52:23
used.
52:24
That'll get us to the next step where
52:26
we'll see every one of these animals who
52:28
have been used in experimentation in the U
52:32
.S., all these primates, they deserve a happy
52:35
ending, and that would be in sanctuary.
52:39
That's what I'm wanting to see soon.
52:43
Amy, what are your final thoughts?
52:46
I think, like you said, Jane, there's just
52:48
so much happening, so much news constantly.
52:51
I really encourage folks to follow PETA.org
52:54
for the latest.
52:55
We expect more news coming in the upcoming
52:58
weeks.
52:59
We will be staying on top of things
53:00
to make sure we are making the most
53:03
use out of every current event to make
53:05
sure that everything is focused as much as
53:08
we can on shutting down these places and,
53:10
like Lisa said, getting these remaining victims to
53:13
places of sanctuary where they can finally live
53:16
like the monkeys that they are.
53:19
I will say my final thought is right
53:22
now we have to do everything that we
53:24
can to reach the powers that be who
53:26
want to cut funding and say this is
53:29
the area to cut.
53:31
I was reading an article about how one
53:34
individual posted something on X about what he
53:38
felt was ridiculous government spending, and it caught
53:42
the eye of the owner of X, Elon
53:44
Musk, who is the head of DOGE, the
53:45
Department of Government Efficiency, or worse to that
53:49
effect, and the cut then ended up making
53:52
headlines.
53:52
I think we are in the same position.
53:55
That does not mean we endorse every single
53:57
cut.
53:58
Again, I want to say that the monkeys
54:00
do not care what your political allegiance is,
54:04
whether you are Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative, libertarian,
54:07
socialist, Green Party, whatever.
54:10
They just want to get out of the
54:11
cages.
54:12
They want to get those electrodes out of
54:14
their brains.
54:15
They want to stop the torture.
54:16
Frankly, it is torture for us.
54:19
It is torture for me personally to know
54:21
that these animals are being tortured and that
54:22
my tax dollars have to go to it.
54:25
I would do anything to make it stop.
54:30
Make it stop.
54:31
It is just too stupid.
54:37
It is too stupid more than anything else.
54:41
We have got to end it.
54:42
I just want to thank all of you
54:44
for being a part of this broadcast.
54:47
These are two very, very busy people, and
54:49
they took the time out of their very
54:51
busy schedule to talk to us and bring
54:54
us up to date.
54:55
I always say, please download the Unchained TV
54:58
app.
54:58
We are the world's only free non-profit
55:01
vegan streaming television network, animal rights streaming television
55:05
network.
55:06
We are on your phone.
55:08
We are also on your TV.
55:12
It is on there behind me.
55:13
It is also on your tablet.
55:15
I really appreciate everybody downloading it.
55:18
It is 100% free.
55:20
It is a way to stay up to
55:23
date with the animal rights movement as it
55:26
happens.
55:28
It is a vegan Netflix.
55:30
That is the thing I have ever heard.
55:32
I love Unchained TV.
55:33
Unchained TV.
55:35
Your life will change.
55:36
It is just that easy.
55:37
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for
55:40
everybody.
55:41
Unchained TV changed my life.
55:43
Unchained TV is crushing it.
55:46
I love Unchained TV.
55:48
Unchained TV is my go-to.
55:50
Unchained TV.
55:51
Who knew?