Latest / Skin Anarchy / Decoding Exosome Integrity and the Future of Skin Regeneration Ft. JuveXO

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Decoding Exosome Integrity and the Future of Skin Regeneration Ft. JuveXO · Skin Anarchy

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Skin Anarchy.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Today's a very awesome episode because we're going to be diving into the world of exosomes, and I can't wait to really dive into the nitty-gritty with you guys.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: We have a wonderful guest who can really educate us on this topic.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you're involved in the aesthetics world, you've heard of exosomes and they've come up at some point.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the president of Juvexo, Brian Platt.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Brian.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited to be on.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And one of my favorite topics, exosomes.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think I almost named my second child exosomes.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Just wanted to give you a little bit of a background on the history as to how we got here and how exosomes became hot in the aesthetic space.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: For a long time, understanding exosomes back from your biology day, they actually were considered cellular waste.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: They thought stem cells would secrete these exosomes, and it was just cellular waste.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: In reality, exosomes are tiny nanovesicles secreted from cells and carry the message.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: So their messengers carry that regenerative message from the healthy cell to the damaged cell.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: As science has continued to improve, and companies such as ours have have continued to invest in the RD, pushing the envelope, as to, hey, how amazing everything that the body gives you, right?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: From these stem cells.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we've heard of stem cells in many contexts.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm going to be focusing primarily as it pertains to aesthetics.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: We've been in the cell therapy space for almost 20 years.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Our chief science officer and the brain child behind Juvexo is Dr.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Rafael Gonzalez, the pioneer in the cell therapy space.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: As he was working on stem cells, he came up with this product which we were calling liquid gold in the lab.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: He was able to get our stem cells to secrete not just exosomes, right?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm going to I want to also not just emphasize what exosomes are, but the importance in distinguishing and understanding why all exosomes are not created equal.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And which what should you be looking for when finding the right exosome product for a cosmetic or aesthetic procedure?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So just to get our audience lined up, Brian, let me start from the beginning with you.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to walk us through this.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about what are exosomes and where do they come from.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start there so that everybody can have an understanding.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Exosomes are secreted by stem cells, right?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm highlighting stem cells because that's where ours are derived from, but they will secrete exosomes.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exosomes are the ones that carry the message, this regenerative message from the healthy cell to the damaged cell, right?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: But exosomes are one component.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: We actually call ours secretomes because it's not just the fact that there's exosomes being secreted, because they by themselves would not pack the full punch of what the intended outcome was.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it's who are who's at the party with the exosomes that are important.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if I asked you, Doc, give me two ingredients that you definitely would want to have in a skin product, what would you say?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: I would say niacinamide and probably vitamin C.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Vitamin C.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Two excellent products.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if we take it one step further, would you say hyaluronic acid and collagen are extremely important?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: So because ultimately what we're trying to do is to get our collagen engine to rev up again, like it used to produce at a younger age, right?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or a younger state.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So our products is naturally secretes high molecular weight, hyaluronic acid, and that's important because a lot of times when you're buying HA products in the market, they're low molecular weight.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And really, other than just giving you a little bit of a glow, there's really nothing that they're doing long term on the regenerative basis.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing can hold more water than HA on a pound for pound basis, right?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: It could hold a thousand times its weight in water, which is why a lot of times when you apply HA, you get a little bit of that plumpiness.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's really that immediate effect of the HA.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: But the high molecular weight HA is so important.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Also, collagen one and three in it naturally secretes, which again is ideal.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: We want to not only stimulate your own collagen production, but we also introduce collagen.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Collagen is the most prolific and abundant protein in the body, right?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: It does everything from cover, helps on the intra-articular side to coating your organs, your lungs, and obviously very important part in the skin and the and the skin's health.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So as we age, we start to have these breakdowns in collagen.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's looking, how do we get this stimulated again?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And what we did is that we conditioned our stem cells, which is the source of our exosomes.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Very important to understand the source because today there is a lot of confusion.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: People are just throwing exosomes out there, but they don't know are they plant exosomes.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Even what type of stem cell are the exosomes derived from is important, right?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because ours are derived from what are called mesenchymal or MSC exosomes.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And a little bit more kind of on a touch point is umbilical cord, aligning stem cells.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you think what an umbilical cord is, it's meant to sustain and grow life for nine months.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: That is the most nutrient-rich environment we have.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So when we were looking for our optimal stem cell, that's where we found it, right?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and we've done plenty of studies.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: We've invested a lot of money in multiple studies.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're currently in five clinical trials with the FDA with our stem cells.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: The exosomes are an evolution or an offspring of these stem cells.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And as we conditioned them and we started to introduce them into the market back in 2019, there was really nothing out there at the moment that catered to cosmetics.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: We were the first company to promote this on a B2B basis.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: We were selling only the doctor's offices, and it was meant to be used topically in combination with treatments such as microneedling, Morpheus, laser, etc.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So as we started to penetrate the market and seeing all the great outcomes, there was really a need to continue to evolve and make other products available to our practitioners.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Our product line has continued to expand.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: At the heart of our Juvexo is our patented formula, which is called XOCM.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the driver that's present in all our products.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: We have our skin line, our aesthetic line, and our pro line.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you're maybe a med spa, if you are a trichologist running hair, we have a hairline.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other end, on the pro line, if we're on the regenerative side, on the hair transplant side, you know, we have a more potent version of that.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we've really done a nice job of introducing product that will be able to cater to what the market demands.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Exosomes have become very trendy.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: But the most important thing, again, I go back to is understand the source of the exosomes, right?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Where they came from and what were they conditioned to do, right?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is just because look, I could put a cup of milk on a table and you could find hundreds of millions of exosomes in there.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that you want to put those exosomes on your face.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we're seeing.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times practitioners are being sold on, hey, there's exosomes in here.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Frankly, you have to trust the person selling them to you that that's the case.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're working with a reputable lab that is operating by a higher standard, then that is what you should first trust.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there, understand what these exosomes are conditioned to do and what are the core ingredients in the exosomes.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would say, it's not the fact that there's exosomes at the party, it's who are the exosomes at the party with.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's very fascinating.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you broke it down for us to this level because the conversation has come up in the industry where people are now aware of exosomes.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many uses for them, right?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: So they do come from the regenerative medicine side, which makes me start thinking about a lot of different avenues.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I wanted to ask you is can you talk to us a little bit about when you're harvesting stem cells, right?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: From like Wharton's jelly, you want to focus on things like passage of those cells.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that matters at the end of the day, because the more passages a cell line goes through, the more likely the mutations are introduced in it.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk to us about the more technicals there in terms of what you guys made sure you were doing to make sure that the exosomes that you were kind of manufacturing here, they're going to stay resilient over time and they're going to kind of withstand moving around and just by the time they get to the actual patient or the consumer, they're still viable.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a great question.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if more practices would be asking those questions, there'd be way less noise in the market, right?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: You do have to, the conversation doesn't start at the exosome front.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's timeline in the exosome is right here.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let me start you at the exosomes.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: But the narrative needs to go back further.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: You need to understand, like you said, where are these stem cells that these exosomes are coming from, where are they uh derived?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And what work has been done on them, right?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Given the fact that we are in the clinical trials with the FDA, my bar is set so much higher in terms of sterility.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: One of the biggest things you're seeing in the market is everyone claiming how many exosomes they have in their product.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, there's not one practice or anyone that probably has the ability to really vet the amount of exosomes in that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: We've done the studies under electron microscopy, which is an over million-dollar machine to test ours.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Third-party images prove that we have live exosomes in our product and the amount.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: But none of these other companies that are leading with sales and marketing, if they're selling you an$80 vial of exosomes, understanding that they're coming from stem cells and the process of cell harvesting, you could really buy something at that price and it really have exosomes that are going to be regenerative in nature?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: The obvious answer is no.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Most of these companies lead with their sales and marketing and fancy brochures, not with science.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: We started with our science.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: We worked for many years looking for the right type of cell line.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: We went through 50-something donors, and of course, this is all consented post-birth tissue.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: So these were every donation was consented.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Another question is like, oh my God, these are coming.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is coming from an umbilical cord that was going to be discarded, consented after birth.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very, very important on that aspect.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: So as we ran through the gauntlet of tests, the first thing we had to do is run it through an exhaustive amount of viral testing to make sure that the stem cells did not have, you know, there was no viruses in the cells.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Then we had to do genetic karyotyping, which is we would grow up the cells to 80 years of age and see if it would develop any sort of genetic aberration, right?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's an exhaustive process.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And only after passing all those gauntlets did we find a cell line that was viable.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: At that point, now that we have the stem cells, which we alter leave culture expand, it's four passages of cultural.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we get it up to about an 18 to 20 year of biological age, because that's where we know is the sweet spot.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: You've gone through enough of the adaptive immune system aspect, and you have that prolific viability on the cells.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: From then, we put the cells, and it's very funny because you if you would think, hey, what is the type of diet that we'd want to put these cells under to help it proliferate?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Funny enough, it's actually a keto diet.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we stressed our cells under a keto diet to secrete this proprietary ingredient, which is not just exosomes, which well, again, while we call it secretones, that has the uh the exosomes, has collagen, the HA that I previously mentioned.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: It also has something else called beta defensins, which are immune-boosting peptides, which really help mitigating bacteria.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think on the skin, a lot of times acne is driven by bacteria.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: We have seen in studies how it helps mitigate even on the surface of the skin.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it'll be used a lot post-surgical around wounds to help minimize the chance of getting an infection.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, really amazing how our product as a practitioner started to understand its profile, how it's being broadened in its use, still within its compliant basis.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I hopefully that answered your question.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it absolutely did.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, it really didn't.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I really applaud you for doing this properly and for making sure that you're sticking to the science.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I can't say enough good things about that component because what I've seen in the industry and a lot of providers and customers out there, you guys have noticed this if you're selling an$8 serum and claiming there are exosomes inside of it, I'm gonna pause and say, what are you talking about?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's an expensive technology.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And there is a lot of detail there scientifically that you have to consider.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I asked you, Brian, in-depth detail about it, because I think it's important for consumers to understand that if you are gonna opt for something that is technologically advanced, you have to be able to understand that you have to ask certain questions from the science side.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're finally entering this era in aesthetic medicine where the consumer is very well educated now and they're asking better questions.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I really champion that kind of mindset because that's how we get results at the end of the day.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at any part of medicine, you will see that certain things are definitely checked off, like dosing, understanding the viability of certain products or if you're using an ingredient, the shelf life.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: These are common questions that consumers need to ask more of, you know.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to something like exosomes, I get very excited, but at the same time, I get very cautious because I don't want people to be miseducated on this topic.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's very helpful what you said and everything you've explained so far.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'd love for you to dive in more because I know that you kind of started teasing this a little bit where you're talking about how the proprietary technology that you guys have is not just the exosomes.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's also the other components that you've packaged in.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk more about that and why that matters for the common consumer that's wanting to get a procedure using Juvexo.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's important to understand if I'm coming into a practice and I'm looking to get something that is going to deliver as advertised, and I'm coming in for some sort of facial rejuvenation procedure, whatever the indication, whether it's from the harsher end from a laser down to the lower grade of microneedling, you want to make sure that whatever is being used is legitimate and there's going to be an efficacious outcome that warrants the increase in expense.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: The market is falling short because a lot of practices, and I always feel like, hey, it's the doctor's job to do the homework because that's what the patients expect.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: That you've done the homework to assure that what you're putting on me is going to deliver as advertised, not because I believed that I had infinity minus one exosomes.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And again, exosome count is secondary.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: What were the exosomes conditioned to do?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: If I take LeBron James and put him on a football field and he's dressed in basketball, and I don't give him any of the equipment, how well is he going to play basketball?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: He's not.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: You have to on and the same with the exosomes, you have to tell them what you want them to do.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we told our exosomes, we want you to go and be the best product to help for aesthetic conditions, right?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, what else did we need to make sure that it's secreted?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, a collagen, elastin, biotin, glutathione, which helps with skin brightening.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So as you start to get deeper into the profile of our product, you go, wow, this is like the who's who of who I wanted to have.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: If I told you, here's who you want to invite to your skin party, here are the top 10 people I want to invite.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: They're all at this party.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's any other company that has approached it this way.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's just rushed to produce an exosome product.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they've and they continue to fool the market that just by saying exosomes that they're gonna have, and I just really feel they're doing a disservice to their patients because it's frankly no better than it's almost like they're giving their patients placebos to a degree.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know of companies that sell exosomes in a powdered format, a reconstitute with a cheap grade hyaluronic acid, and they'll get a little bit of a glow so they feel, oh, look, you see the exosomes are working.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're also a third-party lab, and we've tested a lot of these products because we have the ability to do so.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I could tell you I've yet to be impressed by anything we've tested, and I'll leave it at that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, I believe it.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: I really do believe it.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell you I'm on the same page with you, and I think it's very important for us to clear this up for all of our listeners that exosomes by themselves are not the goal.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: The goal is to have something that is going to actually go to your cells and become a signaling mechanism.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what the role of exosomes is.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's why they're secreted in the first place.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: They perform signaling between cells.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: I would love for you to speak a little bit more about this because when somebody is going in for aesthetic treatment, what kind of results should they be expecting by getting a treatment that involves exosomes?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And how can they track, you know, something like, am I getting the benefits of this versus not?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important that you pick your practitioner accordingly and assure that you know they're in.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're coming in to get an exosome procedure on a group on immediately, you have to start to question, right?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: It is important to understand.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm big on diagnostics and tracking and why we've invested so much into doing so.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: One way is before and after pictures over time.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's also skin analysis machines such as Zivisia that you could use.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: You could get you, you could take one before you do the procedure, then you could take one after, and you could, you know, take another week or a month after as a follow-up or for a subsequent treatment to see how you've improved.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: These machines are now getting really good at detailing not just what's on the surface, but underneath.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I always like to quantify what I'm seeing that I'm getting a collagen production.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a test that I could run?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: But if you see that you are sustaining or you're kind of holding your ground and you're seeing skin texture over time improving, because that's the other thing.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's no one and done on this.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: We continue to degenerate as humans.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to do our best to offset.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So finding the right, the right interval of doing this treatments, and depending on how much damage you have or how long it's been since your previous one, then will dictate hey, do I have to go laser or morphia or something more aggressive and then complement it with microneedling or something less invasive?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: That I that will I will defer.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know doctors have their protocol, but I can assure you that from what I've seen, because I also have a medical practice and we do a lot of aesthetic procedures, I've seen the difference in terms of us minimizing the downtime when you're doing a or a laser, the downtime is cut significantly down, which is important because you want to be able to get back to what you're doing, what to you to what you have to do, and not miss important events or not be able to get back to work or your kids' thing.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that this day and age is really important.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if we're able to help minimize the downtime, that you already start by winning.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give you my personal anecdote.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I had a black tie event to go to with my wife on a Saturday evening.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: That morning, I decided to volunteer for a study that we were doing at my practice with seven patients doing a laser, and then you know, five were doing it without exosomes, two were doing it with.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was one of the ones doing it with.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: As the day wore on, I started to already start to see it get mitigated.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I know when I got home, my wife told me, she's like, Why would you pick today to do this procedure?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: So here I am, starting to pray to everything, going, please let these exosomes work because if Juvexo doesn't come through, I may be not only looking for another profession, I'm gonna be looking for another home to live in.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sure enough, come seven o'clock, I'm here getting in my tux.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, by then it already looked like I had just kind of gotten some sun that day, but not anything that was going to make me look horrific.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: The next day, as everyone had to submit their day after photos, and there were a lot of patients way younger than me with better skin, they had way more redness than I did.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: The only difference was the exosomes.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it goes to those anti-inflammatory properties that that uh that you've exo or and our XOCM formula contribute.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's very fascinating.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I really I'm glad you mentioned that because I think that's also one of the big questions I wanted to clarify for our listeners was when we're talking about something like exosomes, what should people's minds be geared towards?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: You've mentioned a great example, but if you can touch more on this, because right now, here's my frustration.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm seeing a lot of brands out there, skincare over-the-counter brands.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: They're coming into this world.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: I applaud the scientific, I guess, whatever.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like just you're curious and you want to expand.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I think it's sending the wrong message because I don't believe that exosomes should be used continuously every day, every product.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Agree, agree.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe in that.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where I get very stuck because what you described just now is the real purpose of something like nanotech.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: It helps you heal faster.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: It comes from regenerative medicine, this technology.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the idea is regeneration of tissue.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you're applying it every day, it's not supposed to be used like that.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd like for you to speak on that in terms of setting expectations for ourselves as consumers and patients.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: We need to understand if we're utilizing something like true exosome technology, what should our approach be and our mindset be about why we want to utilize something like this versus not?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think you'd have to divide that into the clinical setting and the take-home setting, right?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: But the most important thing is, and I equate this even to our anti-aging patients, is the lifestyle changes, right?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna continue to put yourself into positions that you're exposing yourself to skin damage, you're not eating well, hydrating well, sleeping well, you're drinking alcohol, you're smoking.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, the mother of all exosomes is not gonna save you, right?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing we have to do is make sure that we're making these lifestyle changes to help.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: There is no panacea, no one stop product that's gonna help all.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I can tell you this that this is a catalyst.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you have one of these stronger clinical procedures done, it is important that you do them in moderation, right?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Doing laser very frequently would potentially lead to leather face, right?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: matter how many times you add exosomes, you have to have a practitioner who really understands skin health and not start at the dermis, but start on the inside, right?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing to help uh mitigate the damage that's been done?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then on top of that, how are you looking to keep your post-treatment care?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Again, there's a lot of products out there now that I start to see that are like serums and whatnot.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things you have to be wary on these take home products and ski is that exosomes are not easy to encapsulate to assure that they're viable and that they're and that they're and that the product you buy actually has viable exosomes to deliver what you're being sold.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: If they don't understand how to encapsulate and maintain the viability of the exosome, you're ultimately just getting an overpriced serum that's one of the reasons why we haven't launched a take home product and we're working with a couple high grade labs and make sure that yes you're going to lose exosomes in the process but that there's still viable exosomes that can drive the regenerative process after the fact sufficient to be in a complementary role where it doesn't become something you drink all day every day.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that's as much as I wanted to add to that.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and it's a great explanation thank you for that I think one of the biggest questions for me is what has been a real challenge in terms of transitioning a clinic grade formulation into a broader aesthetic product for you guys?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: How did you preserve the science without diluting its performance?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: If I would have just been concerned about hey let me hurry up and get something commercial I would have had something years ago.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: But we had not been confident in what we've seen yet to put out the right product.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're working with a couple of really high-end formulation labs that understand cell biology.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're not just trying to throw a ton of ingredients together you know stamp it with hey exosomes were once here right at some point exosomes may have lived here they don't live here any longer we're looking at different technologies that can almost encapsulate that exosome because the other ingredients are more robust.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: If they don't have the orchestra conductor then they're also not going to be optimized and very important is that our exosome formula we don't add this to the product we get it to naturally secrete if you see the narrative across the market everyone's talking about exosomes but no one is mentioning how important all the other ingredients are in a symbiotic basis.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we're getting very close I think we would have some demo products probably one of the first ones we're gonna have out is an acne product because we've seen how well this works just on the antibacterial component alone and in the beta products that we've put out there we've gotten rave reviews.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we're definitely closer but not until I'm confident because the same mantra that I follow on my clinical side I want to follow on my consumer side and it's okay that everyone's out there and I understand that there's a business side and not to say there's no good products out there.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: I am just trying to educate on what are the questions you have to ask.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: No I think that's all we can really do is to really put the information out there.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I find it fascinating because there are so many potential therapeutic benefits of utilizing exosomes what's something that you would want practitioners or clinics to understand when they are entertaining carrying these products maybe a quick rundown of questions they should ask before saying yes to companies or fact check they can do internally before they decide because I won't lie to you the regulatory area for this for me even is very gray you know and it's fuzzy because to understand I'm not saying that you know obviously you guys are really checking off every box but not every company is doing that right so like if I'm a practitioner and I'm wanting to carry what are some things I should understand before I say yes look I think you really have to understand the source.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start also I know that there's plant exosomes and I think we're seeing an iteration back in the day when stem cells got popular you started to see apple and deer and all these other iterations of stem cells have you seen any of them kind of proliferate or still is there one apple stem cell product that you say wow that is the holy grail is there one deer stem cell product no so those all probably went by the wayside of the next fad what I can tell you is that exosomes are a catalyst in the regenerative process.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: No stem cell would be able to do its work if it's not the exosomes that are carrying the message to the damage.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: So exosomes are here to stay the only thing is what you need to ask is understanding um where your exosomes source from what testing has been done on those cells and I'd love to see some proof that you actually have exosomes and here you are claiming to me that you're selling this to me like a tequila right like it's triple filtered and all this stuff.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: But how do I know what you're telling me to be true?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any images of exosomes in your and that's where you're gonna get crickets right because people are making this investment.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Again they're just they're doing it now with AI they're just throwing really nice crafted messages and brochures what it does what it's supposed to do right but show me the company that's invested as like we have in these studies to show the changes in collagen in skin texture to show how we're minimizing bacteria present at the skin surface that's important.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: These companies could be cosmetic companies but they're really rooted in the science ask for certificates of analysis on the exosomes the viral testing when you start to get the butts of why that's not important then you know there's a stronger commercial pitch here than a science aspect.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that answered your question yeah absolutely I think that's a wonderful answer.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to ask because I know there are many practitioners that are always wanting to stay on the we all want to stay on the cutting edge, right?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Science demands that in a way and medicine demands it but I think yeah exactly what you said we we have to be bold enough to ask these questions ourselves until we get to that point as an industry where the regulatory side of it is so in your face you know what I mean where everybody's got the checklist in front of them there's no way to get around it we're gonna have to ask those questions right the reality is that initially the exosomes were people were were promoting it cosmetically was to get around the regulatory environment but they were pitching it for all sorts of usage.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Then the FDA stepped in and said hey this falls under the same auspices of of stem cells now when you're talking about a purely topical cosmetic use then there is no FDA because it's not being used as a drug right and that's why even for cosmetic use you can't make claims like I'm going to make you younger you still can't make those claims right so it's twofold it's the usage of the product but also the claims exactly right yeah no I think that's a very valid point it's very important to understand and I think for consumers as well it's like going back to that bit we talked about where setting consumer expectations patient expectations is very important in this realm because with anything related to biotech and I'm a firm believer in this biotech is now taking off and we see it everywhere I think it's important for us as consumers patients to also understand that there are going to be things that you can reasonably expect from technology and things that you just simply can't.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you are going to a clinic you should ask that I've said this before on the podcast where I was talking to a doctor once and a dermatologist we're talking about lasers you know and he brought up a very good he was like you need to be as a patient you have to ask you have to pose these questions and get your knowledge because that's going to make you understand what to reasonably expect from the treatment.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: So now that we're seeing the emergence of something like nanotech in this space that's a very this is very like hard to pinpoint.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's another thing right where exosomes are nano so they can go pretty deep into the skin layers understanding what that actually entails for you long run.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: You got to know that kind of stuff and it's glad glad you because you're right exosomes are measured in nanometers.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: So the way we qualify is based on the International Society of extracellular vesicles.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: You have to meet at least two of the three criteria one of those is particle size but it also has to exhibit certain markers just because you have something that's in that particle size you know then it's an exosome and that is not the case and when you look under electron microscopy you can see it.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: We have copyrighted images of exosomes we've taken in our different products even are lyophilized which people said oh it's impossible to maintain an exosome through a lyophilization process because you stress it and I say well it's impossible for you I always give the analogy that if tomorrow we found people that were able to travel the stars and showed up here you say hey that's impossible.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's impossible for our civilization we haven't figured it out but someone else has so it's just that our science is that much further ahead because we've been at the cell therapy game which is where the conversation needs to start not at the exosome space.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah no that's a very good point.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah civilization comes up a lot actually and there's never a clear answer about it.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't damage the actual entire the answer is yes and yes so we have so our lyophyll product you we lose about 50% of the exosomes that we have in our equivalent one cc of serum is about half of that in powder you do lose some of it but if you know that how to do the lyophilization process correctly you're able to maintain that we've tested it but most people do not have the ability to do that what you're gonna be putting out is probably a dead product.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I would beg especially at the price points that I'm seeing today I would pretty confident that most products on the market do not have live exosomes much less any sort of secret home benefit in it.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: So again do you just want to go to Canal Street and buy a Louis Vuitton because it has the label or do you want to make the purchase knowing that this was you know done the right way.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right and it has the real leather and it's the real deal.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah exactly I hear you loud and clear on this I think that it's been such an eye-opening conversation for myself and a lot of our listeners because like I said no one wants to discuss these details and that's one of the biggest hurdles in aesthetic medicine that I'm seeing that there needs to be a lot more transparency.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know and everybody needs to know what's going on what we can expect and where this field is headed.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to get your thoughts on this where do you think regenerative aesthetics and the whole industry is really headed in the next three to five years do you think there's going to be any shifts taking place or anything on the horizon that you can think of you're always gonna have to navigate through a lot of fluff and very little stuff right you're seeing it with a PDRN right or the salmon sperm which falls almost into the same regulatory environment and you're starting to see tons of different groups now getting all worked up about oh we should be able to inject this there's way less clinical data on the benefit now do I think that in theory a good product a PDRN could work a peptide product could work absolutely you know and I actually think they would be synergistic with exosomes believe it or not not to go too much into the science but that product is way further behind but just because certain claims and certain high profile people have used it there's been the massive rush into salmon sperm and salmon sperm facials and years ago it was snails and and then God knows what's next, right?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: We have to always understand that anything truly regenerative is going to take time because there's a cell cycle and there's no instant approach.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: So while you're doing things to help cosmetically topically I think the subdermal stuff right the lifestyle changes so it's really a combined effort.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: But do I think that cell therapeutics or what I like to call biocosmetics are here to stay absolutely because we're seeing the advances in stem cells and what they've done in a variety of regenerative conditions from autoimmune to cardiac etc understand that really what you're saying that when the stem cells are working is that the stem cells are releasing exosomes that have done their job.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: The exosomes are the workers that that ultimately carry this message and start that regenerative process.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now if you have viable stem cells that they will continue to release exosomes that's why stem cells are more powerful because they will be releasing exosomes on an ongoing basis.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exosomes are more like a one shot they have to work on that but that's why the continual effort to to incorporate exosomes in into this will be benefit.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if you're able to see the products that really get through the skin that are viable with exosomes other ingredients I mentioned and potentially others because you mentioned niacinamide I'm a big believer in that vitamin C is great for skin brightening as well as is glutathione.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: If they're able to encapsulate and preserve that exosome I think you're gonna be seeing an optimal cell therapy or cell or biologic cosmetic product that's going to deliver as advertised.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think we're only going to see really big movements in there.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: I also think we're gonna be seeing like designer exosomes at a certain point where potentially we'll be able kind of like you're able to derive your own sense in perfumes you're gonna be able to derive exosomes for different types of indications I think we're gonna see that maybe not in three to five years but in five to ten.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wow that's very exciting I'm very excited to see where this field evolves and what direction we go in but this has been such a great conversation Brian thank you so much for all of your knowledge I mean I can't tell you how amazing it is to finally have this conversation with somebody who can really debunk so much of what's been out there in the gray area around just this entire technology.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: So a huge fan of Juvex so thank you so much yeah so a lot of you listening out there if you're interested in learning more definitely check the show notes for this episode there's gonna be all the contact information there as well so you can get in touch with them as if you're interested from the provider side or if you just want to learn more as a patient.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome thank you so much Dogger hey guys so I hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform we are available on so many different platforms so wherever it is that you're tuning in just go hit subscribe but you will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes this way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, friend founders, industry leaders, authors all the wonderful people that we host and that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 35:56
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• 36:09
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• 36:19
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• 36:26
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• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.