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We Are Failing Female Athletes with Jennifer Sey · Let's Get Naked

0:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm Anne, and this is Let's Get Naked, the show where we expose the patterns, challenge the stories, and share the cheat codes that make life a whole lot easier.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't know when we decided that protecting girls became controversial, but somewhere along the way, we completely lost the plot.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Every generation before us fought to open doors for women.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: They fought for the right to vote, the right to own property, the right to work, the right to compete, the right to have opportunities based on their own ability instead of being told to sit down and stay quiet.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: And now, here we are.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: A generation that inherited those victories is standing by while some people argue about whether the protections that made those victories possible should still exist.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: That should bother every single one of us.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: Sports are just the battlefield.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: The real fighter, excuse me, the real fight is whether we'll protect what generations of women bled, sacrificed, and fought to build, or quietly hand it back because speaking up has become uncomfortable.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: If you believe girls deserve meaningful opportunities to compete, earn scholarships, break records, and know that the rules apply equally to everyone, then this conversation matters.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: What's been most disappointing isn't that people disagree, adults are going to disagree.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: It's that so many people who privately have concerns refuse to say a damn word publicly because they're afraid of being criticized.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: Silence doesn't preserve fairness, it slowly erodes it.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: History has never been changed by people who quietly whispered what they believed in the privacy of their own homes.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: It changed because ordinary people were willing to speak when it was uncomfortable.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Whether you agree with me or not, at least have the courage to engage with the conversation instead of outsourcing your voice to everyone else.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Because our kids are watching, our daughters are watching.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: They're learning whether adults will protect principles when it's inconvenient or whether we'll trade them away because confrontation feels uncomfortable.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Today's guest has been willing to stand in that fire.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: She's paid a price for saying what she believes.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: And regardless of where you land on this issue, that's a conversation worth having.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: So buckle up.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Today we're getting naked about fairness, courage, women's rights, and what kind of society we're building for the next generation.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Today I'm stripping it all off with Jennifer Say.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Jennifer is an American author, filmmaker, business executive, retired national champion gymnast, and founder and CEO of XXXY Athletics, a brand dedicated to protecting women's sports and spaces.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Jennifer.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's for everyone that um is wondering how you got to here and why we're recording in Denver and all the things.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: So I had finished recording for the summer, uh, was you know going away all the things, posted some uh some of my FU minis out, and some people with Jennifer's uh company reached out and said, hey, this kind of aligns.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: And it's funny because I got the email and I was like, okay, where are you at?
3:24
SPEAKER_00: Happened to be in Denver, which is exactly where I am.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: And so I thought this is this alignment has to happen.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: We have to have this conversation.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: So well, I saw a reel from you.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: I hadn't heard of the show, I hadn't heard of you, but I saw a reel and I was like, those are my people.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, I'm constantly, I get invited to go on shows all the time.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: A lot of times it's the same ones, and I'm preaching to the choir, and I've been pushing uh my team and myself to reach new audiences.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: And because we don't know each other and I hadn't heard of you, I assume your audience hasn't heard of me uh and what we're trying to do.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, get me on the show right away.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I heard it was gonna be October, and I was like, no, it has to be soon or we have to meet.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: I felt the exact same way.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: So Jennifer and I met for coffee yesterday and um just connected.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: We we have very similar uh ideas about things and just love this conversation.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm hoping that you can maybe start by just kind of sharing a little bit about yourself, and then we'll get into um the main topic that we're gonna cover today, which is just uh, you know, biological males and women's sports, and how you know you and I both both agree that that's not the right move.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh absolutely.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: I'll give you the kind of the short version.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Um I was an elite gymnast as a child.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: That's what it's called when you compete like in the Olympic movement.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: They call it elite.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: So I first qualified for elite when I was 10 years old.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: I had a very unusual childhood.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was training, you know, six, seven, eight hours a day when I was 10, 11, 12 years old.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: I moved away from home when I was 13 to train.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was on the national team for seven years and I was the 1986 national champion.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: And I achieved that just eight months after breaking my femur at the world championships when everybody thought I was down and out for good.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, I thought it maybe, but I didn't accept um that I was because I was just starting to rise and achieve what I thought I could.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: So that tells you a little bit about my level of persistence, I guess, which I probably always had, but certainly um sharpened through sports.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: And so uh I care very deeply that little girls have that same opportunity that I had.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: For all the accolades, I um really suffered in the sport as well.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't really know it at the time.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: I think everybody, the world sort of knows now that gymnastics is incredibly abusive.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: The doors on that were blown off when uh Larry Nasser, who was the doctor for Team USA, went to prison for life in 2018.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: He abused nearly 500 athletes under the guise of medical treatment.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: And when I say abused, I mean sexually abused.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I spoke out about this first in 2008 when I wrote a book.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: I was like a normal, successful, pretty happy person.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: I had two kids.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was almost 40 when I wrote this book.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: I had a successful career.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: I worked at Levi's, I think I've been there 10 years at this point.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was struggling emotionally, self-esteem.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: Like here I am.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm like this 40-year-old woman.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm a vice president at a major national international company.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: I've got two kids.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, it all looks good on paper, and yet I have extreme anxiety, imposter syndrome, like you would not believe, depressed, and like just, you know, I think the I think the thing that really prompted me to kind of investigate was I allowed myself to be treated very poorly because I sort of thought I deserved it.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: And that light bulb went out off for me in my late 30s.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I sought to understand that.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: And I the the result of that was my first book called Chalked Up.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: And through that process of writing the book, I realized that we were all abused in this sport.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, emotional and physical abuse was rampant, sexual abuse was rampant.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: The national team coach was a pedophile.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: We were told to just avoid, but he's a great coach, so you know, don't say anything.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: So I wrote about all this back in 2008.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: I did not know what I was getting into, but that's okay.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: I didn't want another child to go through what I had.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: So I took the slings and arrows.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: You said in your opener, most people aren't willing to have those uncomfortable conversations.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: That was my foray into learning how to have them and to stand my ground.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: And believe me, if I can do it, a child who learned obedience was the highest virtue through my training, then anyone can do it.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: And it made me stronger.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, I had this career at Levi's, I was very successful.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: I worked there 23 years.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: Then, you know, cut to phase two, COVID happens.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: I've been now redeemed for my stance in gymnastics.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: I decide I'm gonna take a stand for open public schools during COVID.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: Didn't go well.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: Cut to lost my whole 35-year career, moved to Denver.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: That's why I live here now.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: I lived in San Francisco and completely cut out.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: I could never get back in corporate America again.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: I mean, girl, I I tried, you know, I'm pretty good at my job.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: I was the CMO at Levi's and I was the brand president.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I decided to make my own path and start my own brand.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: And I was a former athlete.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: I care deeply about girls having these opportunities to compete fairly and safely.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: I know how to make a brand.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: And so here we are.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: And uh my hope with XXXY Athletics is to make it cool to say men and women are different and girls deserve their own sports.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: It's a really simple thing because you just said it.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: People, most people agree, 80% of Americans agree, and the vast majority are silent.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: But if I can make it cool and easy to, you know, wear a shirt, then that's my goal.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, that was a little long, but that's the whole thing in a nutshell.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: No, that's absolutely perfect.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: And and I couldn't agree with you more.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: Like I I found as I've been putting out the content that I have where I'm just willing to say the things, right?
8:55
SPEAKER_00: This is all new to me.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: And you you were taking arrows way earlier than I was because I just have not ever been part of that whole scene of social media or saying things publicly that that people uh don't want to say.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: And as I've said them publicly, uh, people are coming out of the woodwork, exactly what you're saying.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: I think it's 80% of people that just aren't willing to speak up because they don't want to have to take the heat for things.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: And I don't blame them.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: I get it, right?
9:18
SPEAKER_00: It's not any fun, as you know, more than anyone.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and also it's so incredibly important because to me, I look at it and I think, are we gonna pass the buck and expect our daughters to carry that weight?
9:31
SPEAKER_00: Or are we willing to stand up and say, this is not right?
9:34
SPEAKER_00: And again, it's not, it doesn't have to be anti-anyone in order to be pro-girls.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: And that's where I think people get twisted up.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: It's like, if you don't want biological men in sports, then you must be anti-trans.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I don't have a preference one way or another about that.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: That's not, I don't know anything about it, and I don't have an opinion.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: What I do know is that I don't think that it's right to have biological men in girls' sports.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's right to have trophies taken away.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's right to have uh, you know, the unfairness.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: You can look at that and say men and women are not the same.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: Like that's everyone knows that it's like when you have people that are on on the internet stammering about, you know, whether men or women can get pregnant, I'm thinking, what world am I in right now?
10:14
SPEAKER_00: Like I just can't get my head around that.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Like who who is brainwashed to thinking this is a thing?
10:19
SPEAKER_00: And so I just everyone.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I just I think it's a small fraction of the people, but the other people don't want to speak up because what happens is for those that are driving this agenda, it's uh, you know, they yell at the loudest about names and calling names and all of the things, just so everyone out there knows none of those words mean anything.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: When you start talking about racist, fascist, Nazi, like all of these things that everyone's, you know, was screaming, those words have no weight anymore because people that were slinging them don't even know the definition of them as well.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, you can call me whatever you want to.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't hurt my feelings.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I have a a favorite troll who um he DMs me everywhere he can.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: It's obvious it's him because it's the same words.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: He calls me genocidal, Jenny, which I think is funny.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, but and and I block him and then he opens a new account just so he can DM me.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, he I'm a genocider.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, talk about a word that has no meaning.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, who did I kill?
11:11
SPEAKER_01: No one.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: And people during COVID called me that too.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: I was a murderer and a genocider because I thought that public schools should open just like the private schools were open.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: That meant I wanted to kill all the black children because the black children are more likely to be in public school.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: Are you?
11:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's so insane.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I told you this yesterday when we were meeting.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: I lived in San Francisco for 35 years and was a staunch lefty until 2020 when COVID happened.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I will tell you, in San Francisco, if you live in a deep blue place like San Francisco, and to some extent I would argue Denver now, being called a Republican is like worse than being called a racist.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: And so um the people there, they don't want, they will do anything to avoid that stench.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: And if that means being quiet and not standing up in defense of their daughter, they do not want to be associated with the R-word in any way, shape, or form.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't care.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh I will say at first, when everybody was calling me a, you know, a fascist and an alt-right Republican, um, they accused me of being paid.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't know who's paying me.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, my job, but no one's paying me to say open the schools.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: It did hurt me a little.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: And I tried to reason with them to explain why I wasn't all of these things.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: And then I realized you can't reason with these people.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: It makes no sense.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: And they won't argue with you on the merits.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just this morning, I mean, I still get into little dust-ups every now and again.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: Just this morning, I was arguing with the woman on X.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, her, her argument to me was that I was a mediocre athlete.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: So who cares?
12:49
SPEAKER_01: She said, Did you ever notice that all the people arguing around, she didn't say protecting women's sports, but all the people arguing against trans inclusion were really mediocre athletes.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: So she's saying, Me, I was ranked number one in 1986.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: Grant, it's a long time ago.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm old, leave me alone.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: I I'm lucky to be here.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh Riley Gaines, who was fifth in the country in the 2003, went to the Olympic trials as a young teen.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: And Martina Navratilova, who is, if not the best female tennis player of all time in the top three.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: So we're mediocre, but Will Thomas, a male swimmer who was ranked 552nd in men's and shot up to number one in the 2003 in one year, in less than a year, I'm sorry, he's the mediocre athlete stealing opportunities from women.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: So they never will argue with you on the merits because it's they have no argument and their whole thing is illogical.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: It's first, it's not happening.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Then it's okay, it's just a few.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: Then it's this is a triumph of, you know, LGBTQ rights when, you know, when a trans-identified male ends up on the podium.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, then it's there's no advantage.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: Then it, I mean, it's just like on and on.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Then it's you're a crappy athlete.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: Like what none of this matters.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: It isn't fair to girls.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: Girls deserve.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: And and here's my concern.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: If you know, I I tell people this all the time.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: I overcame unimaginable challenges, injuries, so many broken bones, you can't even, you know, count on one hand.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: I could do that.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: I could dig deep and find the courage and the the will to do that.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: If you told me I was going into an unfair situation right from the start, I think I would have given up.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I don't want to happen to our girls, because then they don't have the opportunity to learn what I did from sports, that discipline, the perseverance.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, really, I don't care that much about sports.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: I I want them to learn those skills that they can take into life.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: And that is a huge loss for girls and women.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, they don't make any sense.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: They call you names and that scares people.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: But why are you scared of being called name called a name by a lunatic?
14:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we are the majority.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: And and this is exactly the, you know, the point that I have on a lot of different topics.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: It's like the majority of people stay silent.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: But the problem is if you don't speak up, then we get what we get, which is where we are right now in times where I can't believe that they allow biological males to compete at levels that they're doing it, right?
15:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know things are changing, and we talked about that a little bit where the tide is changing a little bit, but still, how we ever got to that point to me is like, what in the hell?
15:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, I was telling Jennifer yesterday, um, I've had my head in the sand for a long time because I've just been busy doing kids at home and and all the things, and I don't pay attention to the news, and I don't pay attention to what's going on.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: And I'm looking around now, going, how did this even happen?
15:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, how because especially with the feedback that I'm getting when I put this kind of content out there where it's all of these people that they get, oh my God, thank God someone's speaking up.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, but why is it just me now after this has been going on for years and years and years?
15:54
SPEAKER_00: It's like, and I know it's not just me, I know it's there's other people as well, but it's like, how are people not coming out of the woodwork standing up for this if that's what they believe?
16:01
SPEAKER_01: How do people look the other way on all kinds of things that are dangerous and horrible?
16:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this has been a long, slow march through the culture, and a lot of us weren't paying attention.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I wasn't really, I was aware of it.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I thought I have a friend who was an Olympian.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh, she was an Olympic swimmer.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: Her name is Nancy Hogshead.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: She won three gold in 1984.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: She raised it with me.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: She's been sort of, we have partnered together to protect athletes from abuse in sports.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: So we met many years ago.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: Gosh, it's almost 20 years ago at this point.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: She mentioned this to me maybe 10 years ago.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Nancy, it's just a fringe thing.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I literally didn't think, I mean, Martina Navratilova said the same thing.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: She just didn't think it was a big enough deal to worry about.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's been this long, slow march through the culture.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, we started transitioning, transitioning.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I put that in quotes because you can't change sex.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh, children in um, I mean, it started in the mid-2000s, but it really picked up in the early 2010s.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: And then during COVID, it just accelerated like a thousand fold because these poor children were home and depressed, and you know, looking on the internet, and this gave them a reason for their depression.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: The reason was they were isolated and alone and at home.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, but that started happening in the 2010s.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh, pronouns, you know, I would say became very popular in the mid-2010s.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: That matters because if you own the language, you own the way people think about things.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it all seemed very funny to me.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: I was like, why do I have to say, you know what I am?
17:38
SPEAKER_01: Like when it's starting to be a thing at work, I'm like, why do I have to say she, her?
17:41
SPEAKER_01: You guys have seen me pregnant four times.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: Like you totally know what my deal is.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: And I resisted.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I even really knew why.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: It just seemed dumb to me.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: And now I am a hard ass about it.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Because the minute you concede to be nice, which is what this was all about, the long slow march through the culture was about being nice.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: You concede and you call Will Thomas, who's the swimmer who went up against Riley Gaines in 2022 NCAA championships and tied for fifth.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: And they the NCAA said, we have to give Will the trophy, not you, Riley.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Well, we'll because they wanted the photo up.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, the minute you concede and you say yes, Will, you uh we'll call you she.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: We'll say trans women are women, so you're a woman and we'll call you Leah.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: And sure you can compete on the women.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: Like once you've said it, how do you say he can't compete in women's or enter the women's locker room?
18:32
SPEAKER_01: Even though he's a fully intact male and was lurking and looking at all of the women in the locker room.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: When those women complained to the university, they told those women they needed therapy.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: That's what they told these women.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: So you see what I mean though?
18:48
SPEAKER_01: It's it feels like if you're just peeking out that it's just happening and it's, but there's been this incremental march through the culture and they won in increments and they kind of co-opted our brains in increments.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, Nike ran an ad campaign.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: I was talking with my friend Riley Gaines this morning about this.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: I think people underestimate the influence they've had on this cultural issue.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: They ran a campaign in 2017 and 2018 featuring Castor Semenya.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: This is a male athlete from the global south who won an Olympic gold in the 800 meters in 2016.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: He was criticized.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: This is not a trans athlete.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: This is an athlete with a D, it's what's called a DSD, a difference in sex development.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: But he's a man.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: He has testicles by his own admission.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: He actually has been quoted as saying, having testicles doesn't make me less of a woman.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: I kid you not, this is real.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm at a time worker.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: They they they ran this whole campaign because at the time, the Olympics, they weren't testing for sex.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: So it was fine.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: And he whether or not he thought he was a woman, I'm not even going to get into that.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: I can explain DSD if you want me to later.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: But the whole campaign was y'all are so mean, this is a, you know, you think black women are more masculine, and just because, you know, you're against women who appear more masculine, and this is racist, and this is misogyny.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: This is a powerful black woman.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: So they put this back into the ether back in 2016-17.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: There was no racism or misogyny.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: There was we should protect the women's category, and this is a man, but they make incredibly compelling creative, and it made people go, Oh, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say that.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be a racist.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be a racist.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: Um now, there have been wins of late, as you alluded to.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: The IOC has a new leader, a woman, and she announced in January that the Olympics would go back to testing for sex.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: They haven't done it since 1999.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: And there were two men that won gold in women's boxing in 2024.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: That's what kind of raised it to the level again.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: So we had the IOC do that, which is a huge win.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: And she's brave because she did that under a lot of pressure not to do it.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: We had Supreme Court ruling upholding the laws in 27 states that protect women's sports.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: We've got 23 states to go.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: And just this week, um, star WNP NBA player Sophie Cunningham has taken a stand.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: And she's the first currently competing pro athlete to say, not my sports.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: So those are big wins.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: Those are, those are really big wins.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: I have full body chills just listening to you talk like that because um it's super, super, super important that our girls see that we're fighting to be able to protect like their spaces, their locker rooms, their trophies, they matter.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Right.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: I I think I think if I were a young girl watching as parents don't stand up for what's right, I I can't imagine.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: But like I just I can't imagine having girls where you're like, I know you don't want to get out there and compete against a boy, but that's what we're doing because we don't have the sack to stand up and say this isn't right.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I think there's several types of people.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are true believers.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: There are 10, 15% of the population that have bought it hook, line, and sinker.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: I can't.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: They're in my opinion, brainwashed and demented to some extent.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: Um if you think you can change sex, if you think there's such a thing as being trapped in the wrong body, I mean it's it's cult life.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: That said, there are that is the minority.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: 80%, somewhere between 70% and 80% of Americans agree, yes, women and girls should have their own sports.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: They don't go so far as spaces, but we'll get them there.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: That is when they, you know, when it's private and they don't have to say it out loud.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you, because I've been out here doing this, it is a tiny percentage of people that say that out loud, like maybe 5% of the 80%.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: And I want to know where the dads are.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: I want to know where anyone is.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: Like I can't, I can't get my head around the fact that we're not saying this stuff at full volume.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: I just don't.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, you can come call me whatever name you want to, right?
23:03
SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: I don't validate myself based on whether you think I'm a racist or a, you know, all of the different things.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: I s I sleep fine at night, right?
23:10
SPEAKER_00: But where is everybody else?
23:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know, but we have to so so like you and I sitting here right now feels very powerful to me because it's we are not going to go quietly, right?
23:20
SPEAKER_00: I love the work that you've been doing.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm doing my own in a in in for things that just if it doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like I don't even understand any of the science that goes in behind it, but I don't feel like I need to.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: There is.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: And I don't even want to get off the starting block.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense to me.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: It's like right, exactly, right?
23:38
SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, we talked about that as I stay as far away from all of the stuff as possible.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: And also I really love that about myself because I don't want to get twisted up in it.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: But if it doesn't even make it off of the, you know, ground floor of this doesn't make sense to me that we're going to take women's rights and give them to transgender males, not on my watch.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: The science is junk science.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: I've spent too much time reading it.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: It's activist-driven drivel.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: I have it, it's in my brain.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: I can argue it if I need to, but I try to avoid going down the rabbit hole of responding to their actual points because they're nonsense.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: And if I do that, I'm accepting their framing of this argument.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: And I don't accept it.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: The most basic framing is the truest.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: You cannot change sex, men cannot become women.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: And girls deserve fairness, safety, and opportunity.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: That is true.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: We will all get there as a culture eventually because the truth outs in the end.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: But because it's been this long, slow march through the culture, it will take some time to unwind.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: So we've had these wins.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: There's one more win, which I neglected.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: The Women's Tennis Association, which is the professional international women's circuit, also announced out of nowhere.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: Usually I know when things are coming.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm working behind the scenes and stuff, not with everyone, but I usually hear that.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: We were all stunned.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: They just announced they were going to test for sex as well.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: So that happened this week.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: That that's huge.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: But in the ether, it's not changing yet.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Like here, I'll give you an example.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: When the Supreme Court ruling came down about two weeks ago, which basically just upheld the laws in 27 states, they're not forcing the other 23 to protect girl sports.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: The framing in all the headlines was a blow to trans rights.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: Not we're upholding women's rights.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: So to me, that says we have a long way to go.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: And many governors at that point in the blue states came forth and made statements saying, we're not changing a thing.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: We stand with our, you know, blah, blah, blah.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh, they don't seem to care at all about the girls.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: They don't.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: So we still have a pretty significant fight on our hands.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: And I just think I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a politician, I'm not going to fight this legislatively.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: I want to fight it culturally because the whole reason we have to fight it legislatively is we lost our grip, not our grip, that's the wrong way to say it.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: Common sense has been thrown out the window in the culture, and we have to wrest the culture back with the force it was taken from us.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: And I think brands influence culture.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: I spent 23 years doing that at Levi's.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we're like this tiny little engine that could over here.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: But like I said, Nike's been influencing the culture in the opposite direction for at least 10 years.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: So I want to try to write the ship a little bit.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, balance it out a little bit.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: Tell me about your marketing a little bit.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: I know we were talking about that before we started recording, but um, I absolutely love it because it is exactly what it needs to be, which is a slap in the face and it shows who is being affected by this.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Because while I understand that they're fighting for trans rights to be able to play sports, um, you can't, to me, it doesn't make sense to steal rights from another group to give to somebody else.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: And anybody that is a proponent of that doesn't make sense to me.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: It's like, I get it if you want equality, but everything isn't necessarily for everyone, right?
27:06
SPEAKER_00: We don't have a space where that can work if you want to biologically go against men who are biologically in your same category.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: That isn't, I'm assuming that's an opportunity that they can do that.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you so it's not like you're you can't play, right?
27:20
SPEAKER_00: No one's saying that.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: No.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, but biologically, you're aligned with with men, then then you should play in men's sports, right?
27:28
SPEAKER_01: Identities don't play sports bodies, too.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: So play in the category.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: We have all sorts of categories in sports.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: There's age classes, there's weight classes.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: You can't, as a heavyweight, declare that you feel like a welterweight and then compete in that division.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: That's not allowed.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: As a high school baseball player, you can't declare that you feel like a 10-year-old and play in Little League.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: You can't take drugs and compete in sports.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: There's testing for that.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's their new thing, is there's going to be genital checks.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: That's the that's the new fear-mongering tactic that the left is using.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, they're going to do testing and there's going to be genital checks.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: There's no genital checks.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: That's not how they test for sex.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: It's a cheek swab.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you, as an athlete that's been drug tested many times, it's way less invasive than a drug test.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: When you get drug tested as an elite-level athlete, you have to pee in a cup in front of a person.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: And we all did it willingly because we wanted fair competition.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: Female athletes want this.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: They want, they want the test.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, but as far as the creative and the ads that we make, what I try to do, my mission is to put the attention back on the girls because we've lost sight of the women and girls.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: And the left and the activist class, they're screaming and yelling about these vulnerable boys and just be nice.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: You're you're not letting him have what he wants.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: You're not, it's mean to call him male.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, he is male.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: It's mean to lie to him.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: That's the first point.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: But what about the girls?
28:51
SPEAKER_01: So everything we do is really just about putting the attention back on the young women and the girls who are competing.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: And it strikes a chord.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think me, it's we're like, like I said, a little engine that could.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: It's me and um my chief creative who has a big agency background.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: I had, I probably made more genes out than any human in the world, 23 years at Levi's.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, we're pretty good at the marketing bit and like getting it a message that tugs at your heart strings and doing it in a really concise way.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: How do you um what has been the most outrageous thing that you've come across in the last couple of years as you've been doing this?
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Is there something that's like um that stands out for you when I say that?
29:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it it doesn't have to be anything that someone's coming at you, maybe it's a nugget of information that you found, or maybe it's is there something that sticks out for you for that?
29:47
SPEAKER_01: I guess I mean I've been harassed a lot in my life for the stances that I've taken.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: But this is like next level.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: I have, I mean, I have a I I have uh I can take a lot and I can take this, but it's deranged.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh it is sort of astonishing until you think about the fact that a lot of these people are not well.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: They're on very powerful drugs, wrong sex hormones with mess which mess with your body and your mind.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, we got a 10, 20 page missive written into our customer service line.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: These were not veiled threats, these were overt threats to murder all my employees, meet, murder our children, slit their throats, watch, force us to watch them die in front of us and then kill all of us.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: So that was shocking.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: Coming in for a Monday morning meeting.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Hey, did you see what's on the contact us form?
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Jeez.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: My poor, like we had a cusp, we had just hired someone to handle customer service.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: We had all been doing like a little bit of it.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: And it was her first day, this poor gal, and she gets this note and she was like, I'm not so sure that I don't want to work here.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: She stuck with it though.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's been sort of shocking.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: I think what I just marvel at every day is the illogic of the whole thing.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: I think that's where I get twisted up too, because it's like, again, we can argue all of these extra points, but if we got past the point of common sense, which is how is this even going to work?
31:16
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't just doesn't make sense to me.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: We're we're forcing girls to have boys in their locker rooms, we're forcing girls to have boys on their on their buses, we're forcing, you know.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, and that, but just they reject the binary.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: But then, okay, if you're rejecting the binary, then why if you're a boy that thinks he's a girl, do you have to cut off your parts?
31:36
SPEAKER_01: Like just reject the binary.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: And why, if these are all the things they say.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm too deep in it, but they say, well, some girls have penises.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay, then why does that boy have to cut his off to be more like a girl?
31:46
SPEAKER_01: And what's non-binary?
31:48
SPEAKER_01: And what's going on there?
31:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, none of it makes any sense.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: It's just like round and round and round.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: It's this whole like ideology.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: And what really disturbs me, I guess actually, if you ask me what bothers me the most, is very smart people that I know that are in my family, accept this.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: I hear you 100%.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: That might be the most upsetting and shocking thing.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: Here's the deal: your life isn't going to magically fix itself.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Nobody's coming to save you.
32:20
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32:23
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32:25
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32:32
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32:37
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32:38
SPEAKER_00: Get your copy of the Lifehack Playbook on Amazon or on the podcast website, let's get nakedpodcast.com.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, and for me, I think it's, I think it's the play-along game, you know, and then they're justifying it with whatever the means are.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: Because I've had conversations with family members where I'm like, okay, explain this to me.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: Again, I've had my head in the sand.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense to me.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense that you would put a biological male against a biological female in a women's sports.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: We have co-ed, right?
33:07
SPEAKER_00: We have other, we have other ways to be able to do this stuff.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: So it's like co ed.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: And so I just don't understand like why we're trying to force this.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: And so I know that there's a bigger agenda that totally feels like it.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: But when they start saying different things about, you know, what they believe, it's the smallest fraction of people of like, well, what about?
33:24
SPEAKER_00: And then it's like the smallest thing, and I'm like, you want to make the whole rule around this exception through all of the girls that are in there that we've worked so hard.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: I look at our women's rights and the things that I was talking about in the intro.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: We've fought so hard for all of this stuff.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: And now because you don't want to have someone harass you and you don't want, you know, people to call you names and whatever, you're just gonna lay down and let them take it from us.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, here's this is just a start.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: We have fought for sex-based rights for women.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: No, I'm not even talking about the right to vote.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about rights that are specific to our sex, private spaces, battered women's shelters that acknowledge that men are stronger and women require additional safety in some situations, women's prisons, um, a woman's right to um, I mean, well, to own property, but that's separate.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean, women couldn't leave their husbands if they beat them or rape them.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: There was no such thing as marital rape.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: That was just boys will be boys.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: These are sex-based rights that women have fought for.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: The minute you say there is no definition of woman, which there is, it's an adult human, female, the minute you say that, and any one man who declares himself to be a woman, we lose all of those rights.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: We lose all of those rights.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: So I we also lose our grip on reality, which I think is one of the most dangerous.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: One of the more disturbing things because I feel like if if they, whoever's pushing this ideology, can get us to utter these lies, what can't what can't we be made to believe?
34:56
SPEAKER_01: We can be made to believe anything.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's when you get into very scary government situations and totalitarian regimes and it's real true authoritarianism, not the kind that the left accuses Trump of, but like actual authoritarianism.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: Um so I'm fighting for the truth and children and girls and women to have the opportunity that I had.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I'm I'm doing it in the best way that I know how to do it.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: I think we're having an impact.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a lot of women that have been fighting this a long time.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, a lot of people like to say, where are all the feminists?
35:34
SPEAKER_01: And I gotta give a shout out to the feminists because they saw it first.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: Like the rad femmes.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: They saw it first back in the early 2010s, some of them in in England actually sooner.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, in America, there's a lawyer, her name is Kara Dansky, and she's a friend of mine, and she's been doing this since like 2012, 2013.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: And I feel for her when people say, Where are all the feminists?
35:54
SPEAKER_01: Because somehow this cause gets associated with the right now.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, We're right here.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: You're ignoring us.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: Because the press ignores women on the left that are self-identified feminists because it breaks the story that this is an alt-right, evil, Christophascist thing.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: It's not.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: Women of all stripes have taken a stand for fairness here.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: Their story is gonna be blown up because it's wrong.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know what's gonna be the cascade, but I feel the earth shifting under our feet in a good and positive way.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: Do you think the comment that Sophie made, Sophie Cunningham made about uh, you know, taking a stance, do you think that that will have a ripple effect?
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Because I look at our professional athletes, uh, women athletes, and think, uh, ladies, we're gonna need you guys to speak up, right?
36:45
SPEAKER_00: Because our daughters are watching.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: Our daughters are watching.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Our daughters are watching, you know.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: So it's like when people stay silent about that, you're just as complicit as if you had, you know, if you are on their side, as far as I'm concerned.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I agree.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: I am very grateful that she did.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: I think it's it shouldn't be considered brave, but it is brave.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, because she risks, she doesn't know.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: Is the league gonna suspend her?
37:08
SPEAKER_01: Is the Indiana Fever gonna kick her off the team?
37:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, is Adidas gonna take her contract away or the 10 or 15 other brands that she has a contract with?
37:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, she's 29.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: She's the career as a basketball player is not forever.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: She's gonna, she needs to make what she can and build a platform for herself going forward.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: So I I get that it's risky.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, but here's the here's what's good that happened with her saying it.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: First of all, she didn't back out back down after she got struggle sessioned.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: She said, I said what I said.
37:42
SPEAKER_00: Yep, mad respect, mad respect.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: She got total struggled by the journalists last night, and she just said, I said what I said, I'm not backing down.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you go, girl, because most people do.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: They say, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: I'll need to educate myself.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to offend anyone.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: The other thing she risks is players attacking her on court.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they already do attack her, but more so, right?
38:03
SPEAKER_01: So that's she's risking physical safety to some extent.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: But here's what's positive she didn't back down.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: The league did, or no, the fever, her team did make a statement sort of distancing themselves from her comments, but they didn't suspend her.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: Two years ago, they would have.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: They would have kicked her off the team.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: The league hasn't suspended her.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Two years ago, they would have.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: This is progress.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I you know, like I'm trying to be grateful for small things.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: Adidas didn't end her contract, they're dropping a shoe this weekend.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, she's the hottest thing in sports.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, what Adidas cares about is making money.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: So they're gonna monetize Sophie right now.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: Um but those are all really good things that, you know, they're sort of holding her at arm's length, but she keeps working.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: She's still on the team.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: I I think of her as the um Sydney Sweeney of sports.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: You aware of all the Sydney.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: No, see, yeah, I got I know is this great.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: You know who she is?
39:02
SPEAKER_01: No.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: I heard the name when it was all happened, but I don't know anything about it.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Super hot, really pretty, young actress, famous for euphoria mostly.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: It's a very racy show on HBO, which I don't I don't watch.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: She did a ad campaign for American Eagle uh Jeans.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: Gosh, it must have been a year ago at this point.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: Kind of sexy.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, she used a line which is so pat and cliche.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: I think I've turned it down as a campaign a thousand times.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh something about good having good genes.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: And the world went crazy because she's blonde and pretty.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: And it was like she was saying they they said she was a Nazi because she's saying only white blonde girls with big boobs have good genes, which is not what she was saying.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: It was a joke.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: It was clearly a joke.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: She did a wink and a nod in it.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, Sydney is funny, she's self-deprecating, she's pretty, she's sassy, her politics are obscured a bit.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: She won't say one way or the other.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: That makes people mad if they want to know what to do with her.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: That's Sophie.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: She's got a good sense of humor about herself.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I feel like it's huge.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: We have been waiting for a professional or Olympic, currently competing Olympic level athlete.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: There have been former Olympians and former pro athletes, but not current.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: So Sophie is the first famous currently competing pro athlete.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: I think it will start a cascade, but I think it depends on what happens now.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: Like if she gets struggled too hard, people will be casual or people will be afraid.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: Like if she gets, if Adidas sends her contract, if the league suspends her, if the harassment is too intense, that'll scare people.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Right?
40:44
SPEAKER_00: I I think if there are more of us that speak up, uh, the harassment gets spread out.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
40:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're right.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: There's there's what's there's more, it is, right?
40:53
SPEAKER_00: And so it's like if one person speaks up and people that are in the background say, oh my God, right?
40:58
SPEAKER_00: Like I put out a couple of clips and people are coming out of the woodwork saying, Oh my god, thank God you're saying something.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and stand with me, right?
41:05
SPEAKER_00: Stand with me to say this doesn't make sense to me.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: And again, just because you're pro-girls does not make you anti-trans.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: And so anyone that's listening that's going, oh, these people hate trans people, I couldn't give a shit less.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, do whatever you want to.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: Do whatever you want.
41:17
SPEAKER_00: I don't I couldn't care less.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: I want everyone in this on this planet is weird as fuck to me.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, excuse my language, but they were everybody's weird.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, do whatever you want to.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't need people commenting on what it is that I'm doing.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: And also, you know, it's not, it's not right to do to our girls.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: No, it's not.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: I think I I think about I think we're the same generation gen accent.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, when I was young and I was leaving the sport and rebelling a little bit, I got a little bit goth.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: That's what we did back then.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: I like pierced some stuff, which was racy back in the day, not anymore.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: And I got some tattoos and I shaved my head.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: But that was my way of saying to the world, whether it was true or not, I'm not going to be obedient and conformist anymore.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: I didn't demand anything of anyone.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: I was sending a signal.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: I didn't say you have to call me this different name, you have to treat me in a certain way.
42:07
SPEAKER_01: I was, I was, I was feeling my oats and trying to signal to the world so that I was brave enough to actually do it, that I wasn't going to be a total conformist.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: It's like I was doing it to force myself to break out of my obedient shell, you know?
42:23
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: But I demanded nothing of anyone.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: And that's what's so messed up about this.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: It's like you're demanding the entire world change to your narcissism and your bend to your will.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, I have to remember your 10 pronouns that you want.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: Like I have to feel uncomfortable.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what is often told to these young girls who do speak up about locker room stuff, you can go in a stall or you can use the private one that's like a mile away down the hall.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: No, it's outrageous.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: It's the girls who are being told they have to sacrifice to work around these boys who are demanding special treatment.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, I if I think about the LGBTQ uh movement, gay marriage, which some in my cohort are are against, I was very much for, that demanded nothing of anybody else.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: That was just asking for the same opportunity that everybody else had, the same right.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: This is demanding women's sacrifice, and that is a hard no.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't my marriage isn't affected if two guys get married.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: What is that?
43:37
SPEAKER_01: What is this is nothing?
43:39
SPEAKER_01: It's stabilizing in the community.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: I I got no beef.
43:43
SPEAKER_01: My Christian friends have a little more beef, and that's fine.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: They can think that.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: But this is demanding that girls give up their opportunities and their privacy and safety, and that is a no go.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: I just I can't I can't imagine having uh being the parent to somebody that just Tells my daughter, just go along with the flow because we don't want to ruffle feathers.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: Like that would happen exactly zero times in my world.
44:08
SPEAKER_01: Like it's no you see, I mean, one of the ads I sent you, I think we call it look at her.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: And you see the faces of the girls on the podium who are forced to stand down and take second, who actually won.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the look in their eyes, because it's a really simple idea.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: It chokes me up.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: It's my favorite one, I think we've ever done.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, because it's just such a great illustration of what we're doing to these young girls.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: I am raising my daughter, who is young, to stand up for herself.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: She, we always say Ruthie don't care.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: Like Ruthie will do Ruth is her name.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: She'll just say a thing.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: She doesn't care who likes her.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: And that it's a really annoying quality in a young person sometimes, but I'm trying to foster it.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: Because if you don't foster it when they're young, they're never going to get it when they're old and I mature, when they're grown.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: Um and so I don't know how we can tell this to our girls to say, just look the other way, just let them have the podium.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: It's it's okay.
45:06
SPEAKER_01: It's not a big deal, just be nice.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: But that is what's being told to these girls by the officials.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: In fact, one uh woman we work with, Alexa Anderson, who is a track and field athlete, I think long jump.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: Gosh, Alexa, if I get it wrong, I'm sorry.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: She's in college now, but she competed against a male athlete, A B Hernandez, uh, last year at California State.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: And in protest, she walked off the podium.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: And the officials refused to give her her medal, her trophy.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: They or she turned her back.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: And so they ushered, she turned her back in protest.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: The officials made her leave and then refused to give her the medal.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: They had to sue to get her gosh darn trophy.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: That's what we're doing to girls.
45:47
SPEAKER_00: You tell me this stuff, and I swear to God, it just is, it's like, I could make you so mad.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, I know you couldn't.
45:52
SPEAKER_00: That's what that's what makes me nervous.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, because it just I look at that and I think, how did we get to this place?
45:59
SPEAKER_00: When people talk about at the Olympic level, at the college level, at this professional level, it's like, you please, because I look at that and go, the first time that that would happen, say I had you know girls still in school, the first time that that happens, where we say, now we have a boy that's on the team, whether it's our team or whether it's another team.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: No, you don't.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get together with every single parent that's in that and we're just gonna pull the whole team.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: We're just gonna pull, or and and maybe there's two people that want to stay out there and do it.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna pull the whole freaking team.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, and there's absolutely no that we're gonna, no way that we're gonna go field this team against somebody that has a boy or share locker rooms.
46:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, I just can't believe that we got to this place where so many people are just cowering down because they don't want to be harassed or or it's you know, it's a it's an ideology that's bigger than trans.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: It's the oppressed oppressor narrative, and it it's Marxist, essentially.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, and in every situation, the world is made up of oppressors and oppressed.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: And the oppressed, we need to do everything we can to lift them up.
47:00
SPEAKER_01: And the oppressors are evil.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: And so in this case, the oppressed, the vulnerable, are these trans-identified boys.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: And so we lift them up.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: It's also an incentive to identify as such, by the way.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, if you're a white teen who's white male teen who's been told you're toxic, toxic masculinity, be quiet.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: There's a real incentive there to, you know, possibly all of a sudden you go from being toxic, shut up, to, oh, you're a vulnerable class.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: Please tell us what you think.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: So that's like a whole other thing.
47:29
SPEAKER_01: But it's the same dynamic, it's the same dynamic with race.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, it's this, it's it's the same dynamic that it's all part of this sort of DEI dynamic, which I didn't fully understand when I first saw it coming into the world.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: And I thought, it's fine.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: Why, why shouldn't we give opportunities to people who maybe have been denied them?
47:52
SPEAKER_01: But when you build a worldview around these people are evil and these oppressed people are good, that that's how you get there.
48:01
SPEAKER_01: The white girl on the podium who got second is evil.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: And the boy who thinks he's a girl, he gets the trophy because he is vulnerable and oppressed and commits suicide at higher rates.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: These are all lies.
48:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, he is more likely to be sexually assaulted, murdered, all these things.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: These, these none of these things are true, but they there's this narrative created around these children that they are the oppressed ones.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: And so we have to do everything they say, and we're creating narcissists, a generation of narcissists, toxic narcissists.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: Are there are there people that go in and talk to our young girls about what they'd like to see?
48:43
SPEAKER_01: You mean in terms of like equipping them to stand up?
48:47
SPEAKER_00: In terms of like, hey, how do you feel about all of this?
48:49
SPEAKER_00: Because I was talking with someone and they're like, the girl said that was fine.
48:52
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you know, they were talking about somebody that was competing on the team and whatever, and it was like, oh yeah, no, do they talk to the girls?
48:58
SPEAKER_00: And the girls said they were they were fine.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, I'm not buying that.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh, that doesn't feel right to me.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: The girls are ashamed of that side.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly that.
49:07
SPEAKER_01: No one is talking to them because the schools are telling them the opposite.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: The schools are, the schools are teaching this, and the schools are telling the schools are the ones telling them to be quiet.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: So, no, no one is.
49:18
SPEAKER_01: And they wouldn't invite a person like me in, and they wouldn't invite a person like Riley in to talk to them.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: And so we try to build that ourselves to some extent.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: And so there's the content we put out.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully that can inspire some young girls to push back and stand up.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: Um and we have a team of 500 athletes.
49:35
SPEAKER_01: They're college and high school athletes.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: They are willing to stand up and say, not my sports, not my spaces.
49:40
SPEAKER_01: They are often the only girl in their school or community.
49:44
SPEAKER_01: And so we give them community to that, there's strength in that.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, imagine you're the only girl, you're a freshman in college, you are away from home for the first time, and you are saying, we deserve our own sports and spaces, and then you wear this t-shirt.
50:01
SPEAKER_01: Imagine what that's like in a university setting for a young, for a young woman who's just kind of coming into our home.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: So we try to give them community.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, anytime I see a girl speak up, I mean, we swoop them up.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm always scanning.
50:13
SPEAKER_01: I know it sucks to be on social media, but I'm like literally scanning for these girls all the time.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: Right.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: So I can kind of bring them in.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I'm in personal contact with every girl who's suffered a loss, willing to stand up, um, who's been assaulted, which happens.
50:31
SPEAKER_01: There's a case right now in Seattle, a young woman in high school wrestled against a male unknowingly, and he he sexually assaulted her on the mat.
50:44
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just trying to pick lit lift them all up and give them community.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: Um because right now, no, there isn't because the schools are the ones the schools are the ones propagating this.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that I would send my kids to school if I had young kids anymore, based on all of the things that I continue to hear that are happening in schools.
51:07
SPEAKER_00: And it just makes me think, what is the answer?
51:10
SPEAKER_00: Because it feels like sending, you know, like feeding them to the wolves.
51:15
SPEAKER_01: I know.
51:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, homeschooling is like through the roof.
51:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's part of it.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think what happened during COVID, you had all the kids home and the they were depressed and parents were frustrated that they're um, you know, you were handing over whether or not your kids got to be educated to this school system that now has just pulled the rug out.
51:35
SPEAKER_01: But in addition to that, they heard what the kids were learning.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: They could hear it.
51:39
SPEAKER_01: They could hear what the teacher on virtual and they were like, no, no, no, we're not doing this.
51:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, so since COVID, since 2021, homeschool has homeschooling has really boomed and school choice is booming as well.
51:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, my kids do go to school.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have two that are grown, and I have two young ones.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, we just are careful.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: Um my kids talk about it.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and my my kids go to Spanish language, they go to school Spanish language school.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit of a hack because if your kids speak English as a first language and they're learning 100% in Spanish, they don't really have time for all this other garbage.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I'm saying?
52:15
SPEAKER_01: Like they don't really fo they don't do any of that.
52:17
SPEAKER_01: And we opt out of all the social emotional learning shit, which is how they smuggle it in.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: So and I just pay attention.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: But you know, I I will also say this it's not the worst thing in the world for them to be exposed to it and understand how to resist.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I'm saying?
52:36
SPEAKER_00: Or navigate it just to even understand that that's a thing.
52:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like if you if you grow your kids in a lap, like if you like, I don't know, if they're like veal in a pen, you know, and they don't really know how to deal with the world, right?
52:49
SPEAKER_00: When something actually does happen, they won't be able to respond to that anyways.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: But I understand not wanting to do it, send your kids to school.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: I I'm not equipped to homeschool.
52:59
SPEAKER_01: I know that.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm very happy that I don't have young children anymore.
53:05
SPEAKER_00: How, how, um, what are some of the statistics or some of the numbers?
53:09
SPEAKER_00: Like when we talk about this, is this happening in every school?
53:12
SPEAKER_00: Is this, you know, there's there are biological males that are on, you know, I I just don't know how how yeah prevalent this is.
53:20
SPEAKER_01: It's way more prevalent.
53:21
SPEAKER_01: You know, that that's one of the arguments the other side said, oh, there's there's so few.
53:25
SPEAKER_01: What's the difference?
53:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
53:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, Charlie Baker, who is the head of the NCAA, said in congressional testimony last year, there's only 10 in the NCAA.
53:34
SPEAKER_01: That's a lie.
53:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's way more than 10.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, in just the last year, there have been 50 instances of trans-identified males winning state championships in high school.
53:45
SPEAKER_01: Those boys all get recruited for women's teams in college.
53:48
SPEAKER_01: Like it's there, there have been 10,000 medals stolen, is my understanding.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: I might be getting the numbers wrong.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: It's a huge number.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: There's a there's a there's a website called he cheated.org.
54:03
SPEAKER_01: And this woman is doing God's work, I tell you.
54:07
SPEAKER_01: She keeps a log of every single instance.
54:10
SPEAKER_01: And you have to remember that for every boy that is competing in California State track championship, he's affecting every it's not one girl he's stealing.
54:19
SPEAKER_01: Every girl got pushed down in their ranking, every single one.
54:22
SPEAKER_01: Tens of thousands of girls are impacted.
54:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, so there have been, there are thousands.
54:29
SPEAKER_01: And here's what I will tell you in the Olympics in Paris, 2024, two men won gold in women's boxing.
54:38
SPEAKER_01: Is that not enough for you?
54:40
SPEAKER_01: You had me at hello.
54:41
SPEAKER_01: Is that really not enough?
54:42
SPEAKER_01: AB Hernandez, the boy I talked about earlier in California, two years in a row, won jump, all the jumping events at California State Track and Field Championship.
54:51
SPEAKER_01: Like, is that not enough for you?
54:53
SPEAKER_01: San Jose State University, this was one of the most famous instances.
54:57
SPEAKER_01: They fielded a man on the women's volleyball team.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: Blair Fleming is his name.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: They didn't tell the other women on the team.
55:04
SPEAKER_01: These women roomed with him.
55:07
SPEAKER_01: They were very uncomfortable with that.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: They have a right to know.
55:09
SPEAKER_01: They have a right to know.
55:10
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
55:12
SPEAKER_01: He stole a scholarship from a woman who they had given a look to and had extended and then rescinded because he got the scholarship.
55:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I could go on and on and on.
55:22
SPEAKER_01: I could tell you examples all day long.
55:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, Charlie Rothenberger goes by Marissa Rothenberger, pitched um no hitters all season last season in Minnesota high school, won the state championship for his team.
55:35
SPEAKER_01: No hitters.
55:36
SPEAKER_01: No, no one got a hit off of him all season.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: Who are the adults that are so out to lunch that they're not standing up for this?
55:43
SPEAKER_00: Like I just I to me, I literally I'm sit I'm sitting here like you're telling me these things and these numbers, and I'm just like it it doesn't compute to me.
55:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm a I'm a smart woman and I'm like, this doesn't make sense.
56:00
SPEAKER_01: I I failed and I just cursed.
56:02
SPEAKER_00: I know we're trying to not cuss.
56:04
SPEAKER_01: The activist class, the Democrats, they're very good at this.
56:07
SPEAKER_01: They're very aligned in how they message it.
56:10
SPEAKER_01: And most people don't dig in and they just listen to it.
56:13
SPEAKER_01: Like all at once, the talking points go out, and it's always the same.
56:17
SPEAKER_01: There's hardly any.
56:18
SPEAKER_01: You're beating up on an oppressed population.
56:20
SPEAKER_01: Okay, there's a few, but it's not that many, so why do you care?
56:23
SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna do?
56:24
SPEAKER_01: Genital checks, what's the difference?
56:26
SPEAKER_01: It's a celebration of trans rights.
56:28
SPEAKER_01: Like it's just like the same lines over and over.
56:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've had one-on-one conversations with people at the playground at my daughter's soccer practice.
56:36
SPEAKER_01: They just say all the lines.
56:37
SPEAKER_01: Right.
56:37
SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be genital checks.
56:39
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna target more masculine-looking girls.
56:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, who actually thinks that though?
56:43
SPEAKER_00: That's the fear.
56:45
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
56:45
SPEAKER_00: But it's like that's the fear-mongering, right?
56:47
SPEAKER_00: That's the oh my God, there's gonna be genital checks, and everyone's freaking out.
56:50
SPEAKER_01: I know I'm trying to picture even how that would work.
56:52
SPEAKER_01: I really I'm like, what would that look like?
56:54
SPEAKER_01: You mean like the girls are lined up at the soccer field and before they go out, the coach like looks in their pants.
56:59
SPEAKER_01: No one is asking for that.
57:00
SPEAKER_01: And at the Olympic level, it's a cheek swab.
57:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the line now they're all going with Megan Rapino, the World Cup soccer player, is um is saying that black women will be targeted, which by the way is a really racist thing to say because you're saying black women look like men.
57:15
SPEAKER_01: No women are targeted.
57:16
SPEAKER_01: All women in the Olympic movement will be tested.
57:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, men will be targeted.
57:20
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
57:21
SPEAKER_01: Just men, no black women.
57:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's a blanket test for all women.
57:25
SPEAKER_01: One time in your whole life, the minute you enter the Olympic movement, you get the cheek swab, it takes 10 minutes, you're done.
57:31
SPEAKER_01: You never have to get the test again.
57:32
SPEAKER_01: Whereas a drug test, guess what?
57:34
SPEAKER_01: Every single time.
57:37
SPEAKER_01: So these people are insane.
57:39
SPEAKER_01: Um but I I I I don't know how to explain it to you.
57:44
SPEAKER_01: I wake up every day and I'm like, I can't believe I have to talk about this again.
57:47
SPEAKER_01: It's so dumb.
57:48
SPEAKER_01: It's so dumb.
57:49
SPEAKER_01: And smart people that I know who I love think it.
57:53
SPEAKER_00: That's what gets that's what blows my doors off.
57:55
SPEAKER_00: That's what blows my doors off.
57:57
SPEAKER_00: Talking to people where they're literally like brainwashed in this, it's like, no, no, no.
58:02
SPEAKER_00: I get it.
58:03
SPEAKER_00: Like I get it.
58:04
SPEAKER_00: But just at the basic level, let's start at ground floor.
58:06
SPEAKER_00: If it doesn't even smell right at that point, then we don't even need to go down all of the other things.
58:11
SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't mean that there's not genetic things that are happening and all of the other stuff, then let's just then we'll then we'll we'll deal with that stuff separately.
58:18
SPEAKER_00: But trying to force boys onto girls' teams is just like, to me, it just it it blows my mind in a way I can't even get my head around it.
58:26
SPEAKER_01: That argument, that's another one that's a total red herring.
58:28
SPEAKER_01: This whole like, oh, uh, you know, sex isn't binary, there's multiple chromosomal uh, you know, combinations.
58:37
SPEAKER_01: 99.9% of people are XX or XY.
58:40
SPEAKER_01: There are genetic abnormalities.
58:42
SPEAKER_01: That does not mean that sex isn't binary.
58:44
SPEAKER_01: There are people born with six fingers.
58:46
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean we're not six on one hand.
58:49
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean that we're not five-fingered beings.
58:52
SPEAKER_01: There are people that are born with one leg.
58:54
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean that we're not bipedal.
58:56
SPEAKER_01: Yes, there are genetic abnormalities.
58:58
SPEAKER_01: That's not the point.
58:59
SPEAKER_01: And by the way, what determines sex is not actually the chromosomes, uh, but the gametes, whether you produce sperm or eggs.
59:06
SPEAKER_01: And for all these chromosomally abnormal individuals, they either produce sperm or eggs.
59:12
SPEAKER_01: That wasn't a catchy brand name, sperm and egg.
59:14
SPEAKER_01: So I didn't, so I didn't go with it.
59:17
SPEAKER_01: I went with XXXY.
59:19
SPEAKER_01: But the the other thing, um, the people that are fighting for this is another one of their arguments that makes no sense.
59:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so there's such a thing as XXXY, but you aren't, you're X, Y.
59:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, go away.
59:32
SPEAKER_01: You're a man in a wig and lip gloss.
59:34
SPEAKER_01: Like that don't use that.
59:35
SPEAKER_01: And I talk with a lot of parents who have children that do have some of these differences in sex development.
59:42
SPEAKER_01: And they do have chromosomal abnormalities, and their lives can be very challenging.
59:46
SPEAKER_01: And they're pissed.
59:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
59:48
SPEAKER_01: Because they feel like their children are being used by this movement.
59:52
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
59:53
SPEAKER_00: I've had people reach, I've had trans people reach out to me that said the exact same thing.
59:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, I agree with what you're saying.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_00: We don't want to be wrapped up in all of this, but they are literally like the, you know, getting wrapped up into things and they don't want that either.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:00:07
SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's ruining anything that they have going on because of being forced.
1:00:11
SPEAKER_00: They're like, Yeah, we agree.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_00: It's been pushed too far.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, the fact that the LGBT, LGB movement, because there's a whole thing there too.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_01: Um they, you know, they achieved gay marriage, which like I said, I very much supported and still support.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so they had to move on to the next thing, to fundraise.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_01: Because really, you could have said we won, we're out.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
1:00:33
SPEAKER_01: All those NGBs and all those nonprofits that they needed something else to fundraise, they weren't gonna say we're done, and we all just don't have jobs now.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_01: So this is what that's they're the ones that started pushing this into the culture that that was the next civil rights frontier, the trans, the T, the Q, the plus, the I, the A, whatever those things are.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_01: So um, so they could continue fundraising and they were really furthering this ideology into the culture.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's a lot of ill will now.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_01: You know, there'd been so much goodwill gains for lesbians and gays and B, I guess nobody, nobody thought much about that.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_01: But it's be it's falling off now because this is so crazy.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm still down with the L's and the G's.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of great L's and Gs in this movement, in fact.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, but the movement as a whole, people are they're skeptical and sketched out by it.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, you got the thing.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_01: High fives.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_00: No, everybody's alone.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_00: Right, everybody everybody wins, you know.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_00: We all do their things.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not just sports.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_01: People are very uncomfortable as they should be with this idea that, you know, very young children can be put on puberty blockers and wrong sex hormone, and that that that they would know what they are at eight years old.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, so there's all sorts of things that I think people are are very uncomfortable with, and we don't have to get into that.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_01: But I I don't I don't I don't think I'll ever understand why these like very smart people that I know and love have bought into this.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't I I don't I can't fully get it.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_01: I will say I I think the loyalty to the Democrat Party for those who consider themselves lefties is very strong.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_01: They don't have another thing.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_01: They're they're not they're they're atheists, they're not members of a church.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_01: Their loyalty, their religion, their passion is for the Democrat Party.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_01: And so they will adopt any platform, hook, line, and sinker for the most part.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't it feel like so so for anyone that doesn't know me that's listening, I don't affiliate affiliate with either side because I think politics is a complete joke.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_00: It is that's and so that's just me.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_00: But you know, I've I've watched as the the right wing nuts that are real far right and the left wing nuts that are real far left, it's gotten more and more outrageous to the point to me where I'm like, are you listening to the words that are coming out of your mouth?
1:03:01
SPEAKER_00: You sound like a fucking ding dong.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_00: Excuse my language, you sound like a ding-dong.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_00: Like, don't you guys get that?
1:03:07
SPEAKER_00: There, there's there's the 80% of us that are in the middle that are going, can we please stop this?
1:03:11
SPEAKER_00: That's what I feel like.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_00: That's what it feels like to me, just being plugged into the people that are around me.
1:03:15
SPEAKER_00: It's like there's the 10% of nuts over here and the 10% of nuts over here, and then 80% that go, can we just not do all of this stuff?
1:03:21
SPEAKER_00: I I agree with you to a point.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_01: This is the mainstream Democrat platform.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_01: This is not fringe.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_01: This is the mainstream platform.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_01: As soon as the Supreme Court ruling was released, every single governor in a Democrat state announced, we will do exactly as we've been doing.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_01: We are going to continue, they say protect trans children, but what they mean is push girls off the podium.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, this is the mainstream Democrat position.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_01: This is not fringe.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_00: What would you what would you recommend to parents that are listening that aren't sure what to do if they have daughters that are on teams?
1:03:59
SPEAKER_00: Because my my opinion and my direction might be a little aggressive.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_00: So maybe you can have a normal view of that.
1:04:06
SPEAKER_00: No, I or maybe, or maybe we agree, because I say I wouldn't put my daughter on a team uh that that was going to play against somebody that had a male on it.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_00: And I wouldn't put my daughter on a team that has a male on it.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_00: And if that means that my daughter has to sit out, I'm so sorry that that's how that has to be.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_00: We're not going to just co-sign that because if you go on the court and play, as far as I'm concerned, you're co-signing it.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_01: But I think you have to have the hard conversation with the coach and the school or whoever, if it's a private club, the club owner, the league, whatever it is, like you need to make some hay over it.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's good learn.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, look, we teach our kids to stand up for themselves from a young age.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_01: So bring your daughter, go in, tell the coach this is a girls' team.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_01: There's two boys on this team.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_01: My daughter's not going to compete.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_01: Or there's two boys on that team.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_01: We should not play today.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_01: But you you have the conversation.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_01: You're nice.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't get mad.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_01: I never get mad.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't raise my voice, but I speak with facts, and absolutely that's what I would do.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_01: You can find another team.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_00: Do they have to disclose- There's always another team.
1:05:04
SPEAKER_00: Do they have to disclose that there's a boy on the team?
1:05:07
SPEAKER_00: No, not in Colorado.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_00: So you wouldn't even know.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_01: Here's the law in Colorado.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_01: Gender identity, that is your sex.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_01: That trumps sex.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_01: You can change your birth certificate, you can change your driver's license, you can change your, you can change all your identification, and it will have no marker on it that says it's changed.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_01: Because the belief is if you're a boy who becomes a girl, you were just a boy born in the wrong body.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_01: So you are a girl.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_01: So you can change your birth certificate.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_01: It's just a form, it's not you don't have to get a doctor's note.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_01: You go on the internet and you do a form.
1:05:46
SPEAKER_00: You're blowing my doors off right now.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm using Colorado, right?
1:05:50
SPEAKER_01: Which is the same as all the blue states.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_01: You can actually change all your identification in 44 states.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_01: So even the red states.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_01: It's a little more cumbersome there.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_01: So no, you don't.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: Have to tell anyone because it's a girl, and it's considered discrimination if you say that boy who thinks he's a girl is not a girl.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_01: That's discriminatory.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_01: That is a crime in Colorado.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_01: In this state, is a crime to misgender.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_01: It's you are in the rabbit hole now.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_01: This is how nutty it's gotten.
1:06:19
SPEAKER_01: So no, they don't have to disclose it.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_01: And that not only do they not have to disclose it, that boy is a girl in the eyes of the law and can compete on any girl's team.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_01: That's the long and short of it.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_01: That's what we're pushing back on.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to my world.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm like, I don't want to get up and talk about this stuff either.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_00: Not not like in a, I'm happy to say all the loud things, but like what you're saying when you when you wake up and you go, I don't want to have to talk about this again.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_00: Because it just it shouldn't even be a thing.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_01: Like it just isn't even there's a lot of us that there's a lot of people that get tired and take breaks.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_00: It's so hard.
1:06:52
SPEAKER_00: I get it.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, it would be great is if everyone that disagreed with it stood up together just once and for all and we put an end to it.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_01: All of us.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_01: You see what I'm saying?
1:07:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we need numbers.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_01: It's the normie position.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_01: It's even the majority in California.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_01: We need, but we we do, there's strength in numbers.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_01: We need all of us.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_01: Because right now, the other side is very loud.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_01: And they, it's not just that they're loud, they have control of the media, the headlines, the schools, the universities, the teachers' unions.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_01: And so they're in these positions of authority and influence.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_01: And so when the headlines read a certain way, it seems like that's the de facto position.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_01: Do you see what I mean?
1:07:33
SPEAKER_01: I do.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_01: So there's like this manufactured consensus in the world over.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_01: And that is what keeps people quiet.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_01: They feel they're in the minority.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_01: I tell them all day long you're not.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_01: But that's why it's so dumb.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_01: It's just a t-shirt.
1:07:43
SPEAKER_01: But if you see somebody, me, always wearing this, and it people look and they go, Oh, are we allowed to say that?
1:07:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're allowed to say all the things you do.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_01: This little nudge.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_00: This little nudge that says, like, yeah, you're allowed to say it.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_00: And they go, Oh, yeah.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_00: No, I think, I think when you when you said that earlier, and and again right now, I think that permission component of it is very important for other people because that's exactly the feedback that I get on the clips that I put out where I'm saying, we don't, we're not doing this.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_00: We're not, we're not staying quiet.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm so sorry that I haven't been, you know, with my head out of the sand.
1:08:13
SPEAKER_00: It is now.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_00: And I and I'll say things real, real loud.
1:08:16
SPEAKER_00: I just I'm playing.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_00: Like it just bring it down to common sense for me.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't care on on any of the issues.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_00: It's like, I'm a common sense girl, make it make sense.
1:08:24
SPEAKER_00: If it doesn't, I don't even need to get into all of the whether it's science, whether it's not, whether all the things.
1:08:29
SPEAKER_01: I think it's really great to keep it simple because I think a lot of people are quiet because they're afraid they don't understand.
1:08:35
SPEAKER_01: And you don't have to understand.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_01: The other side confuses you because they do all the weird, like whatever, and they say the things and stats that are fake and all this garbage.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_01: And people are like, well, I don't want to say the wrong thing.
1:08:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't want to be the bad person.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_01: And I was late on that other issue, and I was wrong about that.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't want to be wrong on this.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_01: And they seem like they know a lot.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_01: So that's a certain amount of people.
1:08:55
SPEAKER_01: So I think cutting through that bullshit to say, like, this isn't complicated.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_01: Boys aren't girls, they can't become girls, and girls deserve this opportunity.
1:09:05
SPEAKER_01: That's all it is.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_01: You never, and I'm not mean, I'm not against anyone, I'm just for the girls.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_00: Yep, that's it.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm for the girls.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_00: I I agree with that a thousand percent.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_00: And I think there's nothing wrong with that.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_00: I think that that we need to have more people that stand up and say that, or are willing to have those discussions with other people.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_00: And again, I understand what exactly what you're saying because I think that that's accurate.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_00: Where it's like, I don't want to get into facts and figures and whatever.
1:09:24
SPEAKER_00: You don't even have to it just stay at the at the base level of common sense and just say, I'm not even interested in arguing it from that.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't smell right to me.
1:09:31
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense to me on a common sense level.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
1:09:35
SPEAKER_00: And then that's it.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_01: The more complicated the other people try to make whatever issue, the more they're messing with you.
1:09:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, right?
1:09:45
SPEAKER_00: You're not wrong.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_00: You're not wrong.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_00: Jennifer, please tell everyone that's listening how to uh get in touch with you.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_00: And then also we'll put her on the website, our website.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_01: So um, well, the first thing you should do is go check out XXXY athletics.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_01: XXXX dash xy athletics.com, or here's our little hack.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_01: You can go to thetruthfits.com.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_01: So it's like our little vanity URL.
1:10:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's the most important thing.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_01: Go check out the product.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_01: It's very premium.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_01: It's not merch, it's not just t-shirts.
1:10:14
SPEAKER_01: We have leggings, we have workout gear, we have running shorts, we have running bras.
1:10:19
SPEAKER_01: Anything you would buy from any of these other brands that don't support women, you should get from us.
1:10:23
SPEAKER_01: That's the first thing.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm on X2 way too much, and it's just my name, Jennifer.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_01: Say, everywhere is just my name.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_01: You can find me anywhere.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_01: I don't use any fake names.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_01: You're so great.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much.
1:10:37
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, this has been great.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh, if something from today's conversation hit home, challenged your perspective, or handed you a cheat code uh that you didn't know you needed, we'd love to hear about it.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_00: Send us a DM or email us at ladies at Let's Get Naked Podcast.com.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_00: And if you believe in these conversations, help us get them into more ears.
1:10:53
SPEAKER_00: Follow, share, rate, review, send an episode to someone you care about.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_00: Till next time, that's a wrap.