Latest / Ghost Cult Magazine Podcast / PODCAST: Episode 977 - Grammy Winner Joe "The Butcher" Nicolo Talks Producing Legends and Launching "Ruffhouse, Joe's Garage"

Transcript

PODCAST: Episode 977 - Grammy Winner Joe "The Butcher" Nicolo Talks Producing Legends and Launching "Ruffhouse, Joe's Garage" · Ghost Cult Magazine Podcast

• 0:00
  Why Joe the Butcher? And it was like, I was actually
• 0:02
  doing a remix of a record because I started doing dance
• 0:07
  and extended remixes. And this producer, he was like,
• 0:11
  you should have a handle. You should call yourself
• 0:13
  something. How about Joe the Butcher?
• 0:16
  Because back then it was physical tape that you had to
• 0:19
  get a razor blade and cut and put the tape together.
• 0:24
  So instead of cutting meat, you cut tape.
• 0:27
  And I was like, you know why that's perfect?
• 0:30
  My dad is Joe the butcher senior and he had a butcher shop in
• 0:36
  Conshohocken, which eventually is where Roughhouse wounded up
• 0:41
  in Conshohocken. So that's how I started with the
• 0:45
  whole rap thing in the sampling thing, which became my pedigree
• 0:49
  is what I did. What's up, everybody?
• 0:57
  It's Kifi at ghostcultman.com, and I am honored today to be
• 1:00
  joined by Joe the Butcher. Nicolo, how are you doing, Sir?
• 1:03
  I am doing great. How you doing, ma'am?
• 1:05
  I'm fantastic. Thank you so much.
• 1:07
  This is a treat for me today. We don't talk too often enough
• 1:11
  to producers. I have had my share of
• 1:13
  interviews with legendary producers and I'm really stoked
• 1:16
  to talk to you because you have made some of my favorite records
• 1:18
  ever. But also you have something
• 1:20
  really cool to promote yourself. You're still working A&B, which
• 1:24
  is amazing. But B, you launched a podcast
• 1:27
  and you're giving out production secrets and tips, which I think
• 1:30
  is, you know, super generous. My mom was a teacher and she
• 1:33
  always said it's you could tell somebody how you did a thing or
• 1:37
  you could get them to understand it like you do.
• 1:40
  And not a lot of teachers or people are willing to teach in
• 1:42
  that style. And I feel like based on, you
• 1:46
  know, what I learned here is that that's what you're aiming.
• 1:48
  Yeah, I mean to, I guess two things.
• 1:50
  My my brother has been my brother Phil, who is part of the
• 1:54
  Butcher Brothers today, who some of your fans might know.
• 1:57
  He teaches that. He's an adjunct professor at
• 2:01
  Temple University. And you know, a lot of us in
• 2:03
  terms of giving back, teach. First of all, I don't want to
• 2:07
  teach, but I do want to share my experiences.
• 2:11
  So the best way to do that is, is with a TV channel podcast.
• 2:16
  And then a lot of people can get to see what I do and ask
• 2:20
  questions. And the other aspect of it is I
• 2:25
  everyone's like, they are when are you going to write your,
• 2:27
  when you're going to write your book?
• 2:29
  You got so many great stories. And I even have the, I've had
• 2:32
  the cover forever. And I was like, well, you know
• 2:36
  what, in 2026 or whenever this runs, the, the new autobiography
• 2:43
  is the podcast is people watching you and they'll turn it
• 2:47
  into holograms someday. And I can now tell my whole
• 2:52
  story to you directly, and then I'll get, you know, your
• 2:56
  producer to, to dither it down into an audio book, which I will
• 3:00
  give him half for. He might, he might volunteer.
• 3:04
  OK, I read. That after the show.
• 3:06
  I, I still read biographies and I would read that book actually.
• 3:09
  Thank you, you know, for, for people who aren't familiar or
• 3:12
  just learning now. And we're going to link all of
• 3:14
  your stuff, your link to your podcast, all the places people
• 3:16
  can support you and follow you. Joe got his start in in music
• 3:22
  with an incredible was like a mixed sample tape back in the
• 3:26
  80s. Everybody knew what that was
• 3:28
  like. Everybody knew had that record.
• 3:30
  Everybody had that tape and got ideas for rap albums from it.
• 3:33
  And and I don't know if that ended up lasting you for a
• 3:36
  while, but you, you and your brother, you know, worked on
• 3:39
  records, worked on some of the biggest records of the time, you
• 3:43
  know, mis educational Lauryn Hill, first few Cypress Hill
• 3:47
  records, countless artists remix Billy Joel.
• 3:51
  You know, so many killer projects really launched the
• 3:55
  help launch The Fugees help, you know, help make Cypress Hill a
• 3:58
  household name stones. I mean so many killer things.
• 4:03
  But like when you start it out, let's take it all the way back
• 4:05
  to the beginning. Like, you know, Philadelphia
• 4:07
  area you and your twin brother Bill, like what did you love
• 4:11
  about music that made you want to get into music?
• 4:13
  But was it originally to to make music or to produce music and
• 4:17
  be? AI have a twin brother Phil, who
• 4:22
  I pretty mentioned. We started recording people in
• 4:25
  our parents attic when we were in 8th grade.
• 4:29
  I mean, we had a tape recorder, you know, before I had a record
• 4:33
  player and that was something that we always wanted to do.
• 4:38
  But I would say what made me, what made me focus into that's
• 4:44
  what I want to do is I don't know if you can see it, this
• 4:47
  band right here, The Beatles and they course, they're Cypress
• 4:51
  Hill, one of my, one of my favorites that I, that I
• 4:54
  produced or, or discovered. So it was, it was The Beatles
• 4:59
  and Stevie Wonder that made me go, oh man, this feeling that I
• 5:03
  get when I hear this music, I want to make music.
• 5:05
  And so me and my brother graduated from Temple
• 5:09
  University. There weren't any, any jobs.
• 5:12
  So we started our own recording studio.
• 5:15
  It was called half track, which which blossomed into studio
• 5:18
  four. And we, we had a chief engineer
• 5:23
  who we took on at the time and for whatever reason, he just
• 5:26
  didn't think I had the chops. So much to my chagrin at the
• 5:32
  time, I was relegated to do the projects that no one else wanted
• 5:36
  to do. And in the early 80s, that was
• 5:40
  rap music. So that's how I got into rap.
• 5:44
  And I, I was fortunate enough to first of all discover a school
• 5:50
  Ed with my partner, Chris Schwartz, who was the co-owner
• 5:54
  of Roughhouse Records. For the people who don't know
• 5:58
  that in the 90s, we discovered Cypress Hill and The Fugees and
• 6:02
  Lauryn Hill and, and Criss Cross.
• 6:05
  That was our label, Roughhouse Records in the 90s.
• 6:07
  But Lawrence and Dana Goodman of Pop Art, they they were the they
• 6:14
  were the early rap pioneers in Philly and they had steady B and
• 6:19
  cool C and three times dope. And by making those records, I
• 6:23
  was able to also get tough crew and cash money and marvelous and
• 6:29
  I became Joe the Butcher and people, you know, it's like, why
• 6:33
  Joe the Butcher? And it was like, I was actually
• 6:36
  doing a remix of a record because I started doing dance
• 6:40
  and extended remixes. And this producer, he was he, he
• 6:46
  was like, you should have a handle.
• 6:47
  You should call yourself something.
• 6:48
  How about Joe the Butcher? Because back then it was
• 6:52
  physical tape that you had to get a razor blade and cut and
• 6:58
  put the tape together. So instead of cutting meat, you
• 7:01
  cut tape. And I was like, you know why
• 7:04
  that's perfect? My dad is Joe the butcher
• 7:07
  senior, and he had a butcher shop in Conshohocken, which
• 7:12
  eventually is where Roughhouse wounded up in Conshohocken.
• 7:17
  So that's how I started with the whole wrap thing in the sampling
• 7:22
  thing, which became my pedigree is what I did.
• 7:24
  You know, I think that's amazing.
• 7:26
  Thanks for unpacking that. And yeah, I always think about
• 7:29
  not just The Beatles and George Martin and and all the old
• 7:32
  videos of him slicing tapes for things like Sergeant Pepper and,
• 7:35
  and even the earlier stuff, but I always think of David
• 7:38
  Gilmour's guitar solos, right? You track a bunch of solos and
• 7:40
  then chop them into the absolute best version for himself and
• 7:44
  then relearn it to play it right, like live.
• 7:46
  So amazing stuff. But of course, yeah, the dawn of
• 7:49
  sampling really is like the birth of hip hop is is so many
• 7:53
  things that, you know, founded the style in you and your
• 7:56
  brother had a huge hand in really putting Philly rap on the
• 7:59
  map and and making it global, which is tremendous.
• 8:03
  And roughhouse again, is a legendary label put out so many
• 8:05
  great albums. And you know, it like, I don't
• 8:08
  know, I'm from New York City. We just, you know, like rap came
• 8:11
  from the streets. The first rap I ever heard was
• 8:13
  my friends rapping against each other instead of fighting.
• 8:16
  And then later on they went back to the shooting and stabbing.
• 8:20
  That's later. But like, we used to have battle
• 8:22
  raps on the playground and I would just being in awe, you
• 8:24
  know, So I grew up in, even though I never ghost Cult is
• 8:28
  mainly known for rock and metal. But like we because we don't
• 8:31
  have rock and metal, our name, we cover a lot of other stuff.
• 8:33
  We've covered Wu Tang Clan and Cypress Hill and all the other
• 8:35
  different things. So it's, it's refreshing to get
• 8:38
  this conversation in about the history of this music that is
• 8:41
  really, you know, pervaded everything pop music.
• 8:45
  You know, I, I often say it's like, I know people think of
• 8:48
  jazz as jazz, but jazz was once the popular music of the day,
• 8:51
  right? And standards and things like
• 8:53
  that. And it's the same thing with
• 8:54
  early hip hop and, and now rap. So really amazing, you know, do
• 9:00
  you have your podcast kind of plotted out already or you just
• 9:03
  coming up with what you think are the best tips into incent in
• 9:06
  terms of like most importance? I have AI have a basic concept
• 9:11
  of how it's going to roll out. Part of it will be answering
• 9:17
  questions from the audience, whether it's like, you know, do
• 9:21
  you if it's even if it's a nerd question depends on you know,
• 9:24
  how do you cut your guitars? Do you re amp or you know what
• 9:28
  those kind of questions? The another segment will be, of
• 9:32
  course, what people want to hear is the storytelling.
• 9:36
  OK. The you know, most people will
• 9:38
  be on like, well, what was Bob Dylan like to cut vocals with?
• 9:44
  Was he weird? You know, they, they, they want
• 9:46
  those stories or Billy Joel, you know.
• 9:49
  So that will be another segment. Another segment will be
• 9:54
  interviews. My first interview that I'm
• 9:57
  doing in the next day or two is with Cypress Hill, of course,
• 10:01
  and I'll do some roughhouse people and then I'm going to
• 10:04
  really shake it up. I'm going to do, I'm going to
• 10:06
  have an interview with Shooter Jennings out at Sunset, Corey
• 10:10
  Feldman, Taj Mahal, and then of course, some of the acts that
• 10:15
  I'm currently working with. So that'll be that segment.
• 10:19
  And then last but not least, I will set up the cameras and
• 10:24
  either go like, I just got this song to mix.
• 10:27
  I got a rough mix of it. I don't know what the hell I'm
• 10:30
  going to do yet, but let's put it up together and I'll show you
• 10:35
  how I approach mixing a song by a band that I never heard
• 10:39
  before. That's really cool.
• 10:42
  That's really cool and unique because like, I don't think a
• 10:45
  lot of people get that opportunity to see something.
• 10:47
  Yeah, I mean, there's, I mean, you know, there's those other
• 10:51
  secrets that you want to keep, keep close to your vest or some
• 10:54
  some people are paranoid, some are, people are very
• 10:57
  territorial. I I don't care, you know what I
• 11:02
  mean? It's, it's just like, like the
• 11:05
  Grateful Dead. It's like, I don't care if you
• 11:07
  sample play, put up microphones. Go ahead.
• 11:10
  I'm just going to record another live show in two weeks.
• 11:13
  So that's my attitude with that. And then the last thing I'm
• 11:17
  going to do is I have been not remixing, but I take famous
• 11:23
  songs and then I, I turn them into, I don't change them, but I
• 11:29
  make them the way you think you remembered them.
• 11:34
  Me and Phil already did the message in a bottle for the
• 11:38
  Police. And it's not that it's
• 11:41
  different, but in your mind, even though it was over a
• 11:43
  transistor radio, it had this wall of sound.
• 11:49
  And sometimes you listen to it on on Spotify and you go weepy.
• 11:53
  Weepy what? Spotify has ruined my childhood.
• 11:59
  And it's like now Spotify doesn't give a shit about how it
• 12:04
  sounds. And I got to say with with
• 12:07
  Universal and with some of these other labels, they're beginning
• 12:11
  to realize since catalog is everything, they wanted to sound
• 12:16
  better. So and then I have a lot of in
• 12:19
  the vault multi tracks. So I'll I'll put up.
• 12:23
  I already put up Led Zeppelin in my first episode and showed some
• 12:28
  pretty amazing things about a song that you probably didn't
• 12:31
  know. I'm going to be doing Boston.
• 12:34
  I'm going to be doing the Carpenters, Seals and Crofts.
• 12:38
  Definitely some of the early rap stuff, pulling, pulling apart
• 12:42
  School Ed Saturday night. And again, it's all going to
• 12:45
  depend on on who like whether it's going to get flagged or
• 12:49
  what kind of, you know, how, how much how much trouble I can get
• 12:54
  into with the majors. But we'll see, you know, so that
• 12:59
  in a long extended version is how how the podcast is going to
• 13:03
  go. Right on.
• 13:03
  You can you can always put it behind a paywall on Patreon and
• 13:06
  then they can't get you right. It's probably I love that and
• 13:10
  I'm really excited because you know, again, you're talking my
• 13:12
  language here in terms of these classics, especially like the
• 13:16
  Zeppelin, Glenn Johns, Jimmy Page collabs and stuff like
• 13:19
  that. I think something that people
• 13:20
  don't actually, I don't know if this is something people have
• 13:23
  associated with you or not. Obviously, in addition to Jazzy
• 13:26
  Jeff and The Fresh Prince, which really humongous, you know,
• 13:30
  humongous records and the consciousness you really
• 13:33
  produce, like the two first hardcore rap albums or gangster
• 13:37
  rap albums of the East Coast between School Ed and Tim Dog,
• 13:40
  especially Tim Dog's famous, you know, retort to Compton and
• 13:44
  everything. I know, yeah.
• 13:45
  I don't know if you were living in fear back then, the beeps
• 13:48
  weren't a public thing. They were a real thing at the
• 13:51
  time. So I find that super
• 13:53
  interesting. Well, you know Tim well,
• 13:56
  Schoolie, at the time we didn't know we were creating gangs.
• 14:01
  Well, if we we say we created, it's OK.
• 14:04
  Who created gangster rap? I don't know.
• 14:06
  I say we did, but it was like we were creating this character
• 14:13
  because to me, and I'm not giving anything away, school, He
• 14:16
  was Jesse Weaver, who lived with his mom at 52nd and Parkside.
• 14:21
  OK, so I mean, you know, drunk as high, drunk as been high as
• 14:26
  shit. School.
• 14:27
  School, What time is it? That was all true.
• 14:29
  And that's what was happening at 52nd and Parkside.
• 14:32
  But his mom never had a gun. And the Parkside killers there
• 14:37
  weren't. I can't remember.
• 14:38
  I still have my Parkside killer's hoodie, as a matter of
• 14:41
  fact. But.
• 14:43
  But again, yeah, though, you know, we didn't know.
• 14:46
  We were, we were, we were breaking the rules, man.
• 14:49
  We were putting these huge reverbs on the kick drum, which
• 14:53
  I'll get into in terms of what was that?
• 14:55
  What? It was an EMT 140 plate.
• 14:57
  For the people who want to know, Tim Dog came to me through the
• 15:02
  Ultra Magnetics, which which of course, if you're a rap
• 15:07
  aficionado and, or New York, you know who the ultra magnetics
• 15:10
  are. And so they brought me a Tim Dog
• 15:16
  and I just thought like, is this guy for is he, is this for real?
• 15:21
  Or is this a but the way he dissed everybody so hard.
• 15:25
  And I do look back on it and it's like, man, you're lucky you
• 15:30
  didn't get a plug up your ass walking out of Studio 4 because
• 15:34
  these that shit was no joke. So I look back on and it's like,
• 15:39
  wow, man, you were crazy. But it just came with, I don't
• 15:45
  know, whatever, being young and not even even that young, but it
• 15:48
  was, it was cool and I wouldn't, I wouldn't do it again.
• 15:52
  Right on. Yeah.
• 15:53
  I mean, I'd be nerve wracked. You also have one of my favorite
• 15:57
  records of all time and favorite movies of all time right behind
• 15:59
  you, Juice. Anybody that knows me knows that
• 16:02
  I I went to high school with Omar Epps.
• 16:03
  We're in the same graduating class of LaGuardia High School.
• 16:06
  And I love Juice and I show it to everybody.
• 16:08
  And I I watch it like at least a few times a year at the
• 16:11
  soundtrack, which you were the music supervisor.
• 16:13
  It's another huge part of your career is music supervisory on
• 16:16
  films. And I'm.
• 16:18
  I'm pretty sure that's the first time I ever heard Cypress Hill,
• 16:22
  right, Was, you know, there's they're tracking the pivotal
• 16:25
  scene in the movie. Exactly.
• 16:27
  And that the record had had been out for about 6 or seven months
• 16:33
  and we were sitting back then at like 64,000 copies vinyl and it
• 16:39
  was like man what? What is going on?
• 16:42
  This shit is freaking on another level and rap kids were like
• 16:47
  Nah, shit's. White rap that.
• 16:50
  And the and the white kids were like, Nah, we are.
• 16:54
  But but then for 98 seconds, which is a long time in a movie,
• 17:01
  all you heard was kill a man. And and after that, that that
• 17:07
  was the beginning man. The plane took off after after
• 17:09
  juice. So really thankful that that
• 17:14
  that juice happened. Yeah, I highly recommend any
• 17:17
  everybody that loves a good hood movie go see that one and Eric B
• 17:21
  and Rick Kim to start that the movie and the and the soundtrack
• 17:24
  and and you know how I could just kill a man and so many
• 17:27
  other absolute bangers on that one.
• 17:30
  And that movie has stayed with me.
• 17:32
  Again, the personal association, a lot of extras went to school
• 17:35
  with me also. So fun times.
• 17:38
  Early Sam L Jackson movie too. And yeah, so much orange juice.
• 17:42
  Jones has a bit part in that movie, by the way.
• 17:44
  Random random movie, a trivia. But yeah, man, you worked on so
• 17:48
  many huge things and then Roughhouse continued to just
• 17:50
  stack and grow. Fugees I used to host a college
• 17:54
  radio show and my show was the show before the big local rap
• 17:58
  show in Harlem. And so Fugees, Wu Tang Clan, a
• 18:02
  lot of rap people, Biggie came in before they were big, right?
• 18:06
  And I remember Fugees coming in to play that first record on the
• 18:09
  air as I was leaving, you know, being like what it is.
• 18:12
  What's this long haired Metallica shirt guy doing in the
• 18:15
  studio before the rap show? Doing the news, my brother, but
• 18:19
  no method, man. I'm not a narc, I promise
• 18:21
  anyway. But yeah, man, really like a
• 18:23
  foundational corner of hip hop comes from the work you you did
• 18:28
  at Roughhouse and your own, you know, your own catalog and
• 18:31
  stuff. And then I can't forget to
• 18:33
  mention you worked on one of my favorite meta.
• 18:34
  You've worked on a lot of other things that are not, you know,
• 18:36
  beyond Roughhouse and beyond. Again, I mentioned Lauryn Hill
• 18:39
  and breaking out from The Fugees and going solo and her huge
• 18:43
  record. You worked on one of my favorite
• 18:45
  metal records of all time which was Anthrax Stomp 442, which is
• 18:50
  to me they're super underrated album.
• 18:53
  I know you Co produced that with them.
• 18:54
  They obviously wanted to work with you because of your
• 18:58
  experiences. Right here.
• 18:59
  Give me a second. Oh, he's got one.
• 19:02
  This is a this is, I don't know if you can see this.
• 19:05
  This is a picture from that session.
• 19:09
  I believe it's Ian, but some people say, no, that's John.
• 19:13
  I was like, no, no, no, there's got to be Ian because now this
• 19:16
  says Scott. OK, well, I told you how I'm
• 19:19
  getting all fucked up, but this is a picture from that session.
• 19:24
  Maybe it is. Oh, Scott Ian, of course.
• 19:27
  And we used to call him Stoney because he never ever got high.
• 19:32
  So we called him Stoney. But anyway, yeah, man that I
• 19:36
  think that that record got lost in the sauce because of there
• 19:44
  there was it was that transitional period of with
• 19:47
  Anthrax where, well, who's going to be the lead vocalist?
• 19:50
  And I think that hurt that record because we, me and Phil
• 19:55
  did did AI guess it was some sort of podcast or something a
• 19:58
  couple years ago with them. And I got a chance to revisit
• 20:02
  that record because you just don't listen to it that often.
• 20:05
  And I was like, wow, this work is a lot better than I
• 20:08
  remembered it because it kind of got forgotten.
• 20:12
  And then of course, hypnosis did the cover.
• 20:15
  Who did the cover of Dark Side of the Moon?
• 20:17
  So you know, but. Yeah, man.
• 20:20
  Well, thanks. I mean, you always like hearing
• 20:21
  stuff that that people, you know, the the two.
• 20:25
  That record is always brought up a lot, but more so than even
• 20:30
  Jazzy Jeff and The Fresh Prince. It depends on who the
• 20:33
  interviewer is, but more so than Jeff or even The Fugees people
• 20:38
  go, you created one of my favorite records of all time.
• 20:41
  I was like, wait, let me guess, Urge Overkill And they always
• 20:44
  go, yes, urge overkill, saturation, Exit the dragon.
• 20:48
  Oh my God, they were so ahead of their time.
• 20:51
  And again, ma'am. Well, the band kind of imploded
• 20:55
  a bit and we're meaningful. I'm going to have a whole, a
• 21:00
  whole, a whole episode dedicated to Urge Overkill.
• 21:04
  They're going to be on the show. We have recently unearthed
• 21:08
  footage of the making of those two records that no one has ever
• 21:12
  seen before. So if you're an Urge Overkill
• 21:14
  fan, you got to tune in because you're going to see some, some
• 21:19
  some crazy, crazy shit I'll never forget.
• 21:23
  OK, one another quick story. People like stories, right?
• 21:26
  So if we have to make this, if you want 2 episodes in some
• 21:30
  future time, I'll be happy to come back.
• 21:32
  Or if nobody listens or watches, I won't come back.
• 21:35
  But when we made the first orange Overkill record, I was
• 21:39
  getting rid of my stack of Playboy and Hustler magazines.
• 21:46
  It was like to get this, my wife is like, get this out of the
• 21:49
  house now. OK, great.
• 21:51
  I got it, honey. So I started cutting out
• 21:55
  pictures from these magazines and we would start sticking them
• 22:02
  on the wall. Well, there's a there's a video
• 22:06
  clip the wall. I mean, it is covered,
• 22:10
  absolutely covered. And I again, I would never do
• 22:13
  this again. I've learned my lesson.
• 22:16
  I don't want any way to be ill of me.
• 22:18
  But it was covered with these pictures and it's just like,
• 22:24
  wow, OK, well, that was well, you know, it's a it's a episode
• 22:28
  in your life that you can't erase and you really don't want
• 22:31
  to erase it. But anyway, I had to throw in
• 22:34
  that story. Right on.
• 22:36
  I Yeah, I love the Urge Overkill.
• 22:38
  I saw them at a CMJ event in New York City before they broke.
• 22:41
  And I remember thinking, like, man, these guys just need better
• 22:44
  songs. And then Saturation comes out.
• 22:47
  It is like 31 years, 30 years. So that's amazing.
• 22:51
  Stomp turned 30 last year also. So like, I love that record.
• 22:54
  I'm a huge Anthrax fan from the Bronx, so the I could not
• 22:57
  mention them to be a foul if I don't.
• 22:59
  But in terms of like, do you have a record where you wish you
• 23:04
  could? Do you have any regrets in your
• 23:06
  career? Like I wish I had spent more
• 23:07
  time on X on that record or Y on this record.
• 23:11
  Do you have anything like that in your career?
• 23:13
  Miss maybe? Yeah, well, I signed DMX and we
• 23:20
  did a song called Born Loser that he he it was like it was
• 23:25
  just he turned into the antithesis of that.
• 23:28
  So so there was, you know, so letting DMX go on him becoming
• 23:34
  DMX. What was a disappointment,
• 23:37
  another disappointment, which wasn't my our fault was I?
• 23:42
  I signed Nas to roughhouse and the first song that we did, I
• 23:49
  guess with Pete nice. I think it was because he also
• 23:52
  brought he came in with OK, so it was song called halftime and
• 23:56
  it was on the movie in the movie Zebra head.
• 23:58
  So and it's just started totally started blowing up.
• 24:03
  Well, Faith Newman, who was the ANR person, she left Def Jam,
• 24:08
  joined Colombia and she brought it to us instead of Colombia
• 24:13
  because it's like, well, these guys don't know what they're
• 24:16
  doing, so I'll just put it through you guys.
• 24:19
  Well, that did not go well at Columbia.
• 24:23
  So they, you know, they demanded it back.
• 24:27
  Similar in a way, if you know the show Peaky Blinders, you
• 24:31
  know, Thomas Shelby came in and said they wanted Cypress Hill
• 24:35
  back. I mean, they wanted Nas back and
• 24:39
  we acquiesced the request. So but there are two, you know,
• 24:45
  but but no, that's, that's basically, I mean, there are
• 24:48
  records that that came out that I wish had done better, but
• 24:53
  there there are only two regrets that I really have.
• 24:57
  Right on. Yeah, Nas ended up going on to a
• 24:59
  huge career. I don't.
• 25:01
  I know you've, you know, won a lot of Grammys and done a lot of
• 25:03
  stuff with Naris. How do you feel about the Hall
• 25:06
  of Fame? Since I mentioned Lauren a few
• 25:08
  times and I feel like she might have got snubbed, I'm not asking
• 25:11
  for any controversial takes, but just in general, do you think a
• 25:14
  Hall of Fame is antithetical to rock or metal or hip hop?
• 25:18
  Or do you think like it's important to give respect and
• 25:22
  flowers to great artists? Like sort of inherently, like
• 25:26
  maybe that helps educate people about the forebearers.
• 25:30
  How do you feel about halls of Fame's and awards and things?
• 25:32
  No, you know what I mean it, it, it's a, it's a twin edged sword.
• 25:37
  But at the end of the day, everyone wants to be loved and
• 25:40
  appreciated. I mean, if you know, a few
• 25:42
  people don't and you know, that's, that's totally their
• 25:47
  prerogative, but I think people should be recognized.
• 25:51
  Now, you know, again, let's say the, the, the, the delivery
• 25:55
  mechanism being whatever you want to call it, the Rock and
• 25:58
  Roll Hall of Fame, which is now just a Hall of Fame or the
• 26:01
  Grammys. You know, they're, they're very,
• 26:04
  they're very political. I mean, it's like it's, it's
• 26:09
  part of a free society. You know, we could have
• 26:12
  somebody, hopefully not in the near future, who determines what
• 26:16
  we hear and don't hear. And that's not going to happen
• 26:20
  as long as you vote on November 6th.
• 26:23
  And that's all I'm going to say about that because I'm not a
• 26:26
  political guy, but OK. And I don't even know why I'm
• 26:30
  whispering because I'm afraid they're listening.
• 26:32
  They're going. To find out they're going to,
• 26:35
  oh, they think they're at the door.
• 26:36
  Wait, they're coming to get us? OK, no.
• 26:40
  I live in San Francisco. Sirens OR.
• 26:43
  So I'm, you know, I, I left the, I left the Grammy organization,
• 26:49
  I don't know, maybe 10 years ago they gave me this thing.
• 26:53
  It's a Heroes award, which is nice.
• 26:59
  So, you know, I'm proud of that. But it it had it, it is a bit
• 27:03
  too political. It's getting better than it was.
• 27:07
  But you know, it just, I guess it comes with the territory.
• 27:11
  So live it or live with it or see how how you can use it to
• 27:15
  your advantage or or protest it and say you think it's terrible.
• 27:19
  We live in a free country. That's the great part about it.
• 27:21
  Right on. Do you have a favorite record
• 27:24
  that you didn't work on of all time?
• 27:26
  Like, what's the best sounding record you've ever heard that
• 27:28
  you didn't work? On the best sounding record that
• 27:31
  made that turned me around in terms of like listening to it in
• 27:35
  headphones and going holy wow, was Frank Zappa's Joe's Garage.
• 27:44
  And that was, that was Joe Chickarelli.
• 27:49
  OK. And it was it just, I mean, the
• 27:53
  Steely Dan records, of course, the Pink Floyd records, you
• 27:57
  know, the dimensions on those records.
• 27:58
  But the, but the Frank Zappa stuff was, it was just the, the,
• 28:03
  the, the technical quality of it was amazing.
• 28:07
  And I got to tell you a little bit another, another part of
• 28:10
  this again, it's all, it's like if the story isn't about me, I,
• 28:13
  I, I drift away from my butt. I was in LA and I wanted to meet
• 28:18
  Joe Ciccarelli because he was my Jedi Master.
• 28:21
  OK, So I go into the control room and it's like, Joe, man, I
• 28:24
  love your work. You know, you're just, you're my
• 28:27
  biggest influence. And he's like, Joe, hold on,
• 28:29
  wait. And he goes into the drawer and
• 28:31
  he pulls out urge. This is The Rolling Stones that
• 28:35
  I worked on. But he pulls out urge Overkill.
• 28:38
  And he goes. I use this as a reference before
• 28:41
  I mix the the sister Havana. I use this as a reference and
• 28:46
  I'm like, I can die and go to heaven, you know, because here's
• 28:50
  the guy who was who was everything to me when it came to
• 28:54
  his engineering job. So, you know, but yeah, you
• 28:58
  know, it's it's just so this great records that that sound
• 29:01
  great. And of course, it's always the
• 29:03
  performance, you know, always a performance.
• 29:08
  Right on, out of curiosity, what are those stadium seats behind
• 29:11
  you from? Because I'm like, I'm sports
• 29:13
  nerd and I can't not ask. They're from Veteran Stadium for
• 29:17
  the Phillies. I can't talk about the Phillies
• 29:20
  because I'll I'll start crying, but I could be a Mets fan, so.
• 29:27
  Bad to be a Mets fan right now. I'm a Yankees fan, so.
• 29:30
  I mean, I think we've lost seven in a row.
• 29:33
  You guys have lost eleven in a row.
• 29:34
  You guys, if you're a Mets for Mets, Yeah, And hey, man, I hope
• 29:39
  they turn. I don't it's a long season.
• 29:42
  It's freaking April. But, but right now I say I, I,
• 29:47
  of course, Mr. A, Mr. AI. And we won't even talk about AI.
• 29:50
  Or maybe we will, I don't know. I created a picture of the
• 29:53
  Phillies standing in a burning dumpster, all looking down.
• 29:59
  Let's, let's, let's talk about AI for a second, because I think
• 30:02
  it's actually really interesting.
• 30:04
  I am personally as a tech person, I work in marketing and
• 30:08
  ME and as a tech person I've always said to be platform
• 30:10
  agnostic. And your tactics may change, but
• 30:14
  your general best practices could always theoretically
• 30:19
  apply. And I think the problem with AI
• 30:21
  is not that. Yes now I have now learned that
• 30:24
  there are certain applications of AI that are helpful but I
• 30:27
  think the over reliance and over hype of it is disappointing to
• 30:30
  me. And since we already bagged on
• 30:32
  Spotify once today they don't seem to care that AI and slop
• 30:37
  bands are taking over legitimate artist accounts and just
• 30:40
  throwing up music on there and confusing and upsetting fans.
• 30:44
  All to get plays that get paid out while independent artists
• 30:47
  don't get paid. That's all separate argument but
• 30:49
  what is your like? Do you see a future where AI can
• 30:52
  sit hand in hand with real artistry and A and a human
• 30:56
  creator and engineer and producer?
• 30:58
  I don't see where it will be able to take the place of human
• 31:01
  ears or human talent, but people, some people are going
• 31:05
  all in on it, like Timberland and Rick Rubin and stuff, and I
• 31:08
  find that very disappointing. Well, OK, my, it's, it's way too
• 31:12
  early to tell. I mean, you know, rock'n'roll
• 31:14
  was a fad and all that, but in terms of AI, I personally like
• 31:20
  it as a tool, not as a creative element of creating music.
• 31:27
  What I'm hoping is there's enough of a backlash and it's
• 31:32
  all going to be, you know, you, the public will decide it what
• 31:38
  what the future of AI is. What I think will happen is
• 31:42
  there'll be rock, rap, traditional R&B, opera, AI.
• 31:49
  I'm hoping it just becomes its own completely separate
• 31:53
  category. The problem with that is AI can
• 31:57
  be rock, rap. I mean, it can be all those
• 32:01
  elements. So there has to be some sort of
• 32:04
  governance over it or guidance that, you know, if it's AI, the
• 32:11
  AI there had no to me it would be like there is a law that if
• 32:16
  this is total AI, it has to have a marker or it's not going to
• 32:22
  come, it's not going to make it through the gate.
• 32:24
  So if it is AI, it goes through the AI gate and that keeps it in
• 32:28
  its AI category. Otherwise, you know, it's just
• 32:34
  I'm hoping that's what happens and I think that's what's going
• 32:37
  to happen is, you know, best AI record, Grammys will have best
• 32:41
  AI record. It won't take over everything
• 32:44
  else. But man, I don't know, because
• 32:47
  there's like 75,000 AI songs uploaded a day and some of it,
• 32:54
  some of it is pretty good, you know, I mean, back when people
• 32:59
  were just uploading their cassette tapes, I mean, you
• 33:02
  know, the filter system of good, bad didn't, didn't fall through
• 33:07
  the filter. But some of this stuff is.
• 33:10
  And it's like, so that that's my current, you know, opinion.
• 33:14
  I mean, it's like, yeah, do you like it?
• 33:16
  Yes or no? As a tool, maybe.
• 33:20
  As As As an art form, absolutely not.
• 33:23
  Thank you. I feel like Zappa would hate it
• 33:25
  every single bit of it. He would not be down.
• 33:27
  With oh, absolutely, John Lennon would hate it.
• 33:30
  You would so hate it. You would so hate it.
• 33:33
  Yeah. So, yeah.
• 33:35
  What a wonderful place to end on Roughhouse.
• 33:38
  Joe's Garage is the new podcast from Joe the Butcher.
• 33:42
  Niccolo, thank you so much for hanging out with us today.
• 33:44
  I would love to talk to you again sometime about any topic.
• 33:47
  I'll be avidly listening to your and watching your podcast
• 33:51
  series. And just thanks for sharing all
• 33:52
  this stuff with me today. What a real treat for me.
• 33:55
  Hey, man, thank you. One one last thing.
• 33:57
  It's the it's the 35th anniversary of Cypress Hill.
• 34:01
  This year we are putting out a deluxe edition of the first
• 34:07
  Cypress Hill record. It's going to have a lot of cool
• 34:09
  stuff on it. So if you know, be on the
• 34:10
  lookout for the out for that. And Cypress Hill will be
• 34:14
  performing with the Philly Pops Orchestra here in Philly on the
• 34:19
  5th of November doing the entire first album with the Philly
• 34:25
  Pops. So I just want to throw that in
• 34:27
  because it's the anniversary. But hey man, this has been
• 34:30
  great. I can talk forever.
• 34:32
  You know, I would love for people to check out the podcast.
• 34:36
  Thank you for this opportunity, it was great.
• 34:38
  My pleasure. And yeah, I have the Black
• 34:40
  Sunday reissue, so I'll need to get the debut reissue all in on
• 34:43
  that. And of course, who can forget
• 34:46
  The Simpsons gave us maybe even this, the germ of the idea Who
• 34:49
  ordered the London Symphony Orchestra possibly while.
• 34:52
  Hi, Cypress Hill. I'm looking at you.
• 34:54
  And now it's a thing, right? They play with the Lion Symphony
• 34:57
  Orchestra. They now Philly, LA.
• 34:59
  Amazing. Joe, thanks so much, man.
• 35:02
  You have a great day and I'll see you around.
• 35:04
  Thanks. All right.
• 35:04
  Take care. Thanks man.