Latest / Coffee People Podcast / Roast! West Coast Classics: 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Wave Coffee

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Roast! West Coast Classics: 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Wave Coffee · Coffee People Podcast

0:11
Good morning, everyone. I hope you have a cup of coffee
0:14
at the reading today because this is the roast West Coast.
0:18
Classics Vol 4, hello and Happy New Year's.
0:22
This is the very first show of 2022.
0:26
I'm Ryan Walt. And once again, I'm podcasting
0:29
from the closets studio in my home, if you are a regular
0:32
listener, you know that this show is out a bit later than
0:35
normal this week. My bad I was delayed by weather
0:39
and Avalanche warnings and Highway shutdowns and Colorado
0:43
which turned out to be a real blessing in disguise.
0:45
Because I got to spend some extra time, sipping coffee and
0:49
reading a book by the fireplace of our vacation rental, shout
0:52
out to Kiln coffee in Grand, Junction Colorado, and to Jacob
0:56
and particular we stopped by their Cafe on the way into the
1:00
And again on the way out and had two great Hospitality
1:03
experiences. I left with a bag of Kilns
1:06
Colombia El Tambo washed coffee which I'm actually drinking
1:09
right now. Cheers this show is currently on
1:13
Hiatus for a few more weeks while we gear up for season 4
1:16
which is going to be awesome. We've expanded our reach.
1:19
We are going to feature Roasters from right here in San Diego.
1:22
And from as far away as Alaska. In the meantime, I didn't want
1:26
to leave you without some great coffee content.
1:28
So we've been real during some of the classic coffee smarter
1:31
education, shorts from the first few seasons today.
1:35
You're going to hear Chris O'Brien of coffee cycle.
1:37
Roasting explain what it means when someone refers to first
1:41
second or third wave coffee, which actually happens quite a
1:44
bit on this show. There are some, some of our
1:47
guests even who believe we're going into the fourth wave or
1:50
even left past that all the way to the fifth wave of coffee.
1:54
Only time will tell, I'll remind you that this reissue is from
1:58
season 1 of the show. And it actually first aired, one
2:01
year ago on January, 8th 2021. If you're getting excited about
2:06
season 4 but you want to catch up, go back and listen to all of
2:09
the rows to West Coast coffee smarter and interview episodes
2:12
from the beginning on your favorite podcast platform.
2:15
They're easy to find just search for roast West Coast.
2:19
You can find us on Spotify app alinker or wherever you decide.
2:23
You want to listen to a great podcast.
2:25
If I had a say in it, I would tell you to head to roast
2:27
westcoast.com to stream all of these.
2:29
Shows and read the newsletter and if you feel so inclined,
2:34
Please Subscribe for free or choose to pay for a monthly or
2:37
annual subscription. Our paid subscribers, really
2:40
help us grow this coffee show and do fun.
2:42
Things like meet the podcaster events.
2:45
We've already had to delay. The first one due to Omicron but
2:48
we're targeting mid-February for a new event at Camp, coffee
2:51
company in Oceanside. So whether you're drinking a
2:54
drip coffee, a pour-over latte, espresso, cappuccino or cortado
3:00
make sure you have a full cup because it is time for the roast
3:03
West Coast coffee podcast, Classics Edition, Volume 4,
3:27
Hello Chris O'Brien. Welcome to the roast West Coast
3:31
podcast. I have some sad news, which is
3:33
that this is our last getting smarter getting coffee smarter
3:37
episode of season 1 of the roast West.
3:40
As podcast, I've just enjoyed immensely spending this time
3:44
with you and I didn't want to make this last week too easy.
3:47
So I came up with some really difficult questions.
3:49
My favorite, I like the tough ones.
3:51
It's hard to believe that a whole season has gone.
3:53
By already, I do feel smarter that'll pass.
3:56
I'm sure I'm sure I need to start planning a season 2 so we
3:59
can do this again. So today I want to ask you about
4:03
something. I've been hearing from Roasters
4:05
that I've been talking to on this show, they'll refer to
4:07
coffee as first wave. Second wave.
4:10
Or third wave and I always smile and Nod and pretend that I know
4:14
what they're talking about, but I don't and I really don't, it's
4:18
not something that I had learned before and so I'm asking you to
4:22
teach me what that mean. All right?
4:23
Well, we can definitely do that no problem, because you're
4:26
actually probably familiar with a lot of this stuff already, so
4:30
that should make it a lot easier.
4:32
So, first way of coffee is real simple.
4:35
We talked about it on a previous episode.
4:37
First wave coffee is Maxwell House.
4:40
It's Folgers. It's you ban.
4:43
It's chock full o'nuts. It's diner, coffee.
4:46
You pick the orange handle at the diner or they not orange
4:49
handle like a way of coffee we come along.
4:52
I always thought it was the same coffee in each one.
4:54
I didn't know what. They're I mean it mattered.
4:56
It sure tastes the same but neither of them taste great.
5:00
Second wave is when you're getting a coffee made just to
5:03
order for you. And this is where my mom gets
5:05
really lost. She's like what do you mean
5:06
there's a shop that actually serves just coffee and it
5:09
basically uses an espresso. The machine to create made to
5:12
order drinks for the customers. You're talking lattes.
5:16
You're talking cappuccinos espressos.
5:18
Then we start throwing flavored, syrups in there, so you get a
5:21
vanilla latte or pumpkin spice. Latte or peppermint mocha or
5:26
whatever it is. That's basically espresso
5:29
steamed milk and a flavored syrup.
5:32
Whether it's chocolate, or vanilla or caramel.
5:35
So, now, we enter into third wave.
5:36
Coffee. And back in second wave coffee.
5:39
We didn't talk about it as first wave and second wave.
5:42
There's actually a person who we can attribute the naming of
5:46
first second and third wave coffee too.
5:48
And her name is Trish, Roth Gap and Shroff.
5:51
Go ahead was a pretty big deal in the coffee world, even before
5:55
she came up with this name. And now she owns a coffee shop
5:59
up in San Francisco and Roastery called Wrecking, Ball coffee.
6:03
And she co-owns it with a guy named Nick Cho who's also kind
6:06
of a big deal and coffee. He's a very famous Barista and
6:10
Trish. Oscar came up with this
6:11
nomenclature of third wave coffee because coffee had really
6:16
shifted in the early 2000s going up to like 2010 where all of a
6:21
sudden we weren't just putting stuff in a blender with milk and
6:24
sugar. We weren't just adding our
6:27
house-made mocha syrup to it. Suddenly, you were seeing
6:31
coffees that had farm names on them.
6:35
And you were seeing tasting notes, written on bags of
6:38
coffee, instead of it being Mama's coffee shop, House.
6:42
Blend all of a sudden you were seeing a house blend.
6:46
Next to the Brazil, fazenda Terra Alta and the Costa Rica,
6:51
Finca Cortisone, and the Ethiopia K on mountainous State.
6:57
And it was like, wait a second. I thought you Theo.
6:59
Pia coffee was Ethiopia, coffee and Costa Rica, coffee was Costa
7:03
Rica, coffee and Brazil coffee was Brazil coffee, but Trish
7:07
realize, that all these shops were actually paying more.
7:10
Attention to the differences Farm to farm and not just the
7:14
differences Farm to farm that also that people customers were
7:18
paying attention to exactly how their coffee.
7:21
Tasted, we talked about in another episode.
7:24
How coffee is the most complex tasting.
7:26
Beverage in the world has over 800 compounds that a person can
7:31
detect. Well, I believe you've talked to
7:34
a roaster, that was a former sommelier who used to taste wine
7:38
professionally. Well, tasting coffee.
7:40
Coffee professionally is also now a thing and it has been for
7:44
a little while, but it wasn't in the public eye until this third
7:48
wave coffee came along and we started to treat coffee more
7:51
like we were already treating wine.
7:53
So, do we look for how the terroir the soil climate and
7:59
rainfall that year impacted the flavor.
8:02
So we look at why we want to buy, you know, one Farms coffee
8:07
in Guatemala, over the farm next door, who's doing Differently
8:11
that we're seeking out and so those two factors of farm
8:15
identity and looking at exactly where the coffee comes from and
8:19
why it impacts the flavor and the other factor of how does the
8:23
coffee tastes exactly. Can we put flavor science and
8:26
tasting science into appreciating our cup of coffee?
8:30
Those are the two factors that differentiate third wave coffee
8:35
from second wave. So, first wave, any kind of cup
8:38
of coffee, you know, in a can And a bean and a ground in a
8:42
mug. Whatever it is.
8:44
Second wave using an espresso machine made just for you but
8:48
featuring house Blends, syrups added two lattes blenders to
8:53
make drinks that are you know yummy on a hot day more like a
8:57
milkshake but with coffee in it and then third wave Farm
9:01
identity and treating coffee like wine appreciating the
9:05
nuances of different flavors and coffee and celebrating how a
9:09
different Farm. Our producer can impact that
9:13
flavor of coffee. So that's a really interesting.
9:16
It's not exactly lined up but there's kind of a historical
9:19
record of of how coffee has progressed in the public
9:23
Consciousness. Absolutely.
9:24
And so you can generally say like at this time in history we
9:27
were in first wave coffee but now we're in in what we'd call
9:30
third wave but you could also be having kind of a first wave.
9:33
Second wave experience simultaneously which is really
9:36
interesting. Yeah, I mean I my shop, I will
9:39
serve up of Vanilla latte, but I try to do it with, you know, a
9:43
house-made, vanilla syrup, single origin, Costa Rica,
9:47
espresso, you know, and micro foam.
9:50
That's that's the best that you can get.
9:52
So you can pull out nuances of flavor, even in a second, wave
9:55
style, drink. Yeah, so it is cool how we have
9:58
access to all of that, still today.
10:01
And, you know, some shops you can get almost all three waves
10:05
and just one experience. Yeah.
10:07
Absolutely. I know in your shop, in
10:09
particular that, You make all the drinks to order.
10:12
So, that's something that people kind of learn, is they come in,
10:14
and sometimes it takes a few extra minutes because you're
10:17
literally crafting it in the moment that they've ordered it.
10:20
And some of the roasters, I've talked to it's similar in that
10:23
they don't actually roast a bean until you order that beam and so
10:26
whatever. You're getting from them, they
10:28
roasted to your order which I think was really just kind of
10:31
blew my mind. Like I knew that their craft
10:33
Roasters but I didn't realize that in some cases there.
10:36
I ordered two pounds. They're going out and roasting
10:38
two pounds and those are the beans that I get.
10:40
It was really unique, but I wanted to, I wanted to kind of
10:43
finish the season off by asking asking you a personal question,
10:47
which I hope you don't mind. No, but as somebody who has
10:50
spent, as you've mentioned previously, you know, half or
10:53
more of your life in coffee, in some capacity.
10:56
Who now has seen the, the industry from the side of a
11:01
customer to a coffee shop. Worker to a shop owner who has
11:06
worked with Roasters who I know, has seen Farms origin Farms,
11:10
where People are getting their, their green beans from what does
11:13
coffee mean to you as a person? How do you feel about coffee?
11:18
Is it just a job? Is it something that you do
11:20
obviously, you know, a lot about it and it's, I can hear that
11:23
you're passionate about it. But how do you feel about
11:25
coffee? Wow.
11:29
I really appreciate that. You asked that coffee to me.
11:35
Is. A way to make my daily life,
11:40
make the world a better place. And I know that sounds kind of
11:44
ridiculous or pretentious or whatever, but I think coffee is
11:50
really powerful for a lot of reasons.
11:52
And, you know, I once worked as a bartender briefly in between
11:57
coffee jobs, of course. And then I always wanted to work
12:00
as a bartender because I felt like I was already doing so much
12:02
of that type of work of making people drinks, but I knew that
12:06
bartenders made more money than me.
12:07
Reese's. But you know, the people on the
12:10
other side of a bar on the customer side of a bar, are a
12:14
lot less happy than the people on the other side of a cafe bar.
12:19
And, you know, I only bring that up and that example up because I
12:23
really love how I can impact people's day and make it better
12:27
just by being that positive impact for them being, you know,
12:31
that that person that listens to them, or that cares about them.
12:35
Or, you know, try to make Drink extra good, extra special, that
12:39
day when they were having a rough day.
12:42
You know, it's really amazing to me how I have the ability and
12:45
the power to have a positive impact on someone's day.
12:48
Every single day that I go to work.
12:51
And then when I learned more about coffee and the third wave
12:55
that we just finished talking about, I realized that coffee
12:59
wasn't just about impacting the person in front of me in the
13:03
cafe but it was about impacting the lives of Of a whole global
13:09
international trade and the lives of people who work in that
13:14
trade and coffee is so powerful in that aspect, because it is
13:20
one of the most heavily traded Commodities in the world.
13:23
It's something that people drink in every country all over the
13:27
world. It's produced in every third
13:31
world country, that is close to the tropics, and there's a
13:35
reason that it's produced in those countries.
13:37
Is. And that's a relic of
13:40
imperialism that is now in a lot of ways, become a sort of
13:44
corporate imperialism and that we have a lot of uphill work to
13:48
do in the coffee industry, to make lives better for coffee,
13:53
workers and farmers. And so, by working in specialty,
13:58
coffee where I work, I get to impact the lives of the people
14:02
on the other side of the counter from me by giving them that
14:05
smile or listening to them when they're having.
14:07
Having a rough day or occasionally just shutting up
14:11
and letting them, you know, do whatever they need to do.
14:13
But I also get to impact the lives of people in other
14:17
countries by making sure that we're providing a product that
14:21
is sustainably and ethically. Sourced coffee, commodity prices
14:26
reached an all-time low recently within the last year or two,
14:30
that really should never happen given the way inflation works.
14:34
It happened a while back and Was the impetus for creating fair
14:40
trade as a program? Which is basically like a
14:43
minimum wage for coffee farmers. And because that sort of
14:48
capitalist imperialism spills over onto other Industries like
14:52
sugar, you can find fair trade sugar now too, because other
14:55
Industries realized, oh my gosh, were actually able to have
15:00
either a positive or negative impact on people's lives.
15:03
People were starving in the coffee world, the
15:06
coffee-producing. World, when fair trade was first
15:09
created, they were getting paid. So little for the product that
15:12
they were making that they were unable to either feed themselves
15:17
or plant the next year's Harvest, that's a decision.
15:20
Nobody should ever have to make in a world where we all want to
15:24
drink this. Beverage United States consumes
15:28
more coffee every year than any other country in the world.
15:32
We haven't power to make a positive impact with our
15:35
spending dollars and the What to do that and coffee is to get
15:39
good coffee. So everybody wins.
15:42
You get better coffee and people get ethically paid for their
15:47
hard work and then it incentivizes other people to do
15:52
the same thing. So what does coffee mean to me?
15:56
Simple terms, it's a way to make the world a better place but
16:00
it's not just about the here. And now and the day to day, it's
16:03
about a broader impact. And you don't even have to think
16:07
about Out it all you have to do is buy a good cup of coffee from
16:10
a good place so it's pretty simple to have a positive
16:14
impact. I don't need to be writing a
16:17
bunch of postcards and calling a bunch of senators or going out
16:21
and working at all, the soup kitchens in the world.
16:24
Sure, do that. That's awesome.
16:25
That's great. But all I have to do is work my
16:28
job, and all you have to do is go buy a good cup of coffee.
16:32
I think that's a really beautiful sentiment that it's
16:36
you found a place. You can you can feel the impact
16:40
and see the impact. I think, as somebody who has
16:43
drunk gallons of coffee in your Shops and and is now at home
16:48
most of the time making my own coffee, because of the pandemic,
16:51
coffee isn't just coffee, coffee is an opportunity to have an
16:55
experience. It's an opportunity to interact
16:58
and I think we all miss that to some degree.
16:59
And I think it's one reason why a lot of the roasters we've
17:02
talked to, in the show over the past year past season, rather in
17:05
some cases are doing as well. Better or are seeing like a
17:09
really interesting customer response during this this
17:12
difficult time and it's because people need those moments in
17:17
their day, it's how we feel. Normal is getting that cup of
17:20
coffee and and those communities that we build in places like
17:23
coffee shops matter. Even if we don't realize it, we
17:27
don't realize it until they're gone.
17:28
You know? I don't, I didn't realize it
17:30
that I, you know, I missed seeing you know, the guy over
17:33
there who was typing on his computer every time I came in
17:36
the shop or the From the Barista or whatever it is.
17:39
All those little experiences that we lost at the beginning of
17:42
this pandemic. And we've been kind of chipping
17:45
away at and fighting to get back a little bit as safely as we
17:48
can. Is something something that
17:50
definitely impacts my day and to know that shops like yours and
17:54
Roasters like the ones that we've talked to how passionate
17:57
they are about trying to create that better that better life for
18:00
everyone involved in coffee. And and by extension everywhere
18:04
is one of the reasons that I get so excited and passionate about
18:06
talking to You and to everyone about the strength that we're
18:09
drinking. Thank you.
18:10
You're welcome. I would say thank you.
18:14
Thanks to you. Chris, you, you're an incredible
18:16
coffee. I say, coffee Sensei, and I
18:17
truly mean it. You are the Splinter to I don't
18:21
know. What's the Ninja Turtle?
18:22
Who's always, like getting in trouble and running around.
18:24
That's the one that I am Rafael. I think is probably the angry
18:29
one or the the one who's always fighting back, but I always
18:33
learn something new and we chat and I always look forward to
18:35
seeing you and and now I feel like I have to do a whole nother
18:38
season of roast West Coast just so we can do this again.
18:42
Awesome, I'm there for it. If you'll have me and it's
18:45
really been a real treat, I really appreciate you that you
18:47
did this for free. I just want to make sure that
18:49
that's clear that I, you are not getting paid for this.
18:52
I'm holding out for those freedoms from those companies
18:54
that we mentioned a couple episodes ago.
18:56
I'm really hoping that that, that really comes through for
18:59
me. All right, I'm gonna look up,
19:01
I'm gonna make sure I take burrata and bowling and rebel
19:05
and all of these episodes for you.
19:07
You know, it's been great. I'm happy to do it.
19:10
And anytime I really love sharing this, these times with
19:12
you, that's Chris O'Brien. He is the owner of coffee cycle
19:17
in Pacific Beach and we need to all just bombard him with
19:22
Annoying emails and texts and social media things.
19:25
So he opens up a place up here in North County.
19:29
No. I'll talk to you next season
19:30
Bud. All right.
19:32
Take care. Right.
19:49
Thank you for checking in to this episode of coffee smarter
19:52
Classics and brushing up on some coffee Basics.
19:56
Chris has to Coffee smarter education, 101, classes,
19:59
scheduled for January and February.
20:01
So if you happen to be in the San Diego area, I'll be sure to
20:04
add the link to this week's newsletter.
20:07
Even though I said, happy holidays, at the beginning of
20:09
the show, I think we can say that.
20:11
We're officially passed the holiday season, so you can
20:14
reasonably begin just buying gifts for yourself.
20:16
Again, I suggest picking up some coffee and merge from one of
20:20
this shows industry Partners like Cafe litter in Solana
20:23
Beach. I just found out that they do
20:25
donut Wednesday's with fresh donuts, from nearby VG's, donut
20:29
and bakery and Cardiff, California.
20:32
Or you could buy a bag of coffee or even sign up for a coffee
20:35
bean subscription from a Famed Roasters, most your coffee
20:38
coffee cycle, leap coffee, zoom bar, coffee, and tea, Maria
20:42
coffee or steady state Coffee Roasters.
20:45
You can sign up for a subscription from all of them.
20:47
That would be a lot of coffee, but then you'd have plenty to
20:50
share Camp, coffee company is serving former roaster of the
20:53
Year winner Bird Rock Coffee in their Cafe, which pairs pretty
20:57
well with some first, like coffee whiskey.
20:59
And I want to shout out our newest industry supporter,
21:02
ignite Coffee Roasters of Oceanside California and the
21:06
team at Cape Horn. The importers thank you all for
21:09
supporting the craft coffee community.
21:11
And this show, as I mentioned at the top, I'm going to be doing a
21:14
meet the podcaster event Camp coffee company, in February
21:18
Omicron permitting. So, mark your calendars for
21:20
February 19th. That's a Saturday morning from 9
21:24
to noon, there will be stickers and great coffee and I'll even
21:27
be chatting with some customers on the show.
21:30
As I test out some new in-person equipment as for the roast West
21:34
Coast coffee podcast. It'll be back next.
21:37
Two week with another Classics episode and maybe a little
21:40
behind-the-scenes, I'll be recording the first two
21:42
interviews of next season. The First with Danny Riggins of
21:45
Altria coffee, and tea in San Diego, and the second with
21:49
Carrie Elliot of Elliot and Marie coffee up in Oregon.
21:52
We're only a few weeks away from those season, 4 episodes of
21:55
dropping. So until then had to roast
21:57
westcoast.com to check out all of the other coffee content.
22:00
This episode of the roast West Coast coffee.
22:03
Podcast is was has been written produced newsstand recorded by
22:08
meet Ryan world. I hope this episode is, found
22:11
you happy healthy and with at least enough sanity to make it
22:14
through the day. If you haven't already, please
22:17
go get your vaccine or booster shot and please always tip your
22:21
Baristas and be sure to drink. Good coffee.