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K-Beauty Decoded: The Science Behind Glass Skin, Snail Mucin & Korean Sunscreens · The Science of Skin

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, I'm Dr.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Patty Ferris, and I'm your host for this episode of the Science of Skin Podcast.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: For those of you who are listening, thank you so much for being a listener.
• 0:18
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• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's super exciting.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting subscribers from all over the world.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: We are humbled and honored to have you.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: There is no topic in dermatology and skincare today that I think is hotter than what we're going to talk about today, and that is Korean beauty.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love this.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Korean skincare, if you turn on TikTok, you cannot miss it.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: You'll trip over 20 videos in five seconds.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I have an expert here today, Dr.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Jane Yu, who's going to answer all my questions about K-beauty and hopefully answer some of yours as well.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Jane Yu is a board-certified dermatologist and fellowship-trained MoS surgeon and clinical assistant professor at the Icon School of Medicine at Mount Sinai.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: She is the founder of the Clinical Research Center of New York that's based in Midtown Manhattan, and I know you do tons of trials, Jane.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations on that.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: She completed her Moes Fellowship at Yale, her Durham residency at Albert Einstein College of Medicine, and holds a master's in public policy from Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I did not know that.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's also exciting.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Her clinical and research interest spans K-Beauty, sunscreen formulation, and FDA regulatory policy, aesthetic procedures, and applications of AI and dermatology.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: She is known as the K-Beauty Dermatologist, I love that, and maintains BeautyTechDerm.com, an industry-facing program on innovation in dermatology and beauty technology.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jane, welcome.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: We've been trying to get this off the ground, and I'm super excited to have you.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to be here, Patty.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know last time we tried to record you had an emergency, and then learning that you're a MOS surgeon now, I understand that emergencies in MOS surgery are serious emergencies.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: So no, no problem.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're excited to get you rescheduled so quickly.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So one question that I had initially was I know you are Korean.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit about your family and your background.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I am Korean American.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: My parents immigrated here more than 20 years ago, and they landed in Virginia, which is um, you know, the suburbs of the whole like um Metro DC area.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's called the DMV, District of Columbia, Maryland, and Virginia.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of like the acronym it has.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Huge um Korean American population there.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um it was interesting to like have you know both cultures like meshed together as I was growing up.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize there was such a large Korean population there.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So interesting.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So as a board-certified dermatologist, it seems like natural for you to be super interested in Korean beauty.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna ask a very rudimentary question because I don't know that much about it, except what I hear on TikTok, most of which is probably not true.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get the truth out there.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what is K beauty?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: What's the hype?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll just go back to like the ritual and history of the Korean skincare.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something I had to do my homework because I didn't even know all of this.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the lineage traces back to the Goyo dynasty, where you had things like ginseng, green tea, and rice water that were already established as skincare substances.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the Joseon dynasty, where beauty practices were governed by something called Hangbang.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's Korean herbal medicine and documented in textbooks.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you had rice washing water as toner, um, honey as an early mask, and I remember my grandmother trying to give me honey for allergies growing up, ground grain powder serving as like exfoliance, and then ginseng, because it has some calming circulation properties, it was boiled into the bath water by court women at that time.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: So the aesthetic ideal was cleared, and I guess we could kind of like akin that to the glass skin here, but it's basically talking about skin care as a daily ritual and skin health as a visible marker of self-care.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now talking about the general industry and how it came to be, what we know today is kind of separate.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, what we know is Amori Pacific, which is a huge conglomerate, kind of like our L'Oreal, it started as a camellia oil business in the 1930s.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was formally founded as Pacific Chemical in 1945.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Korea opened its first cosmetics research laboratory in 1954.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: But all the export stuff didn't happen until the Hayu wave of the late 1990s and 2000s, when we remember Parasite happened with the K dramas and K-pop with BTS.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that really turned the Korean skincare into something of a cultural phenomenon and export.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of like these two things that were merging and the cultural strategy that globalized into this, what we now know today.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really fascinating, and I love hearing the history of it.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it goes back so long ago.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that I think people think about first when they think about Korean beauty is the 10-step routine.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: So do we really need a 10-step beauty routine?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who's got the time?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say a lot of people, I think.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: The you know, quick answer is no, because at the end of the day, how many people do have the time, honestly, to do all 10-step skin?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or the money, because it's not cheap either.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say, you know, what makes Korean skincare unique?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think like, you know, if we're talking about the science, I think the biggest contribution here is a very barrier-centric formulation.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I know that like ceramides are huge, but I think K-Beauty really popularized the ceramide-dominant formulas.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And this matches the 3.1-1 ratio of the ceramides to cholesterol to free fatty acids that we see in the stratum chordium.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the same ratio that we utilize in atopic dermatitis.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think pairing that with like low pH cleansers, like pH 4.5 to 5.5 versus like your pH of seven, which is standard bar soap, um, we are preserving the acid mantle and avoiding anything that disrupts phalagrine, right?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And things that um have high pH surfactants.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think these are the things that make K-beauty so unique.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the other thing is that like the humectant and occlusive layering sequence um has a physiological rationale for reducing tool or transepidomal water loss.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: So all this is not marketing.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is really formulation chemistry, and it aligns with what we dermatologists, you know, practice.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So is glass skin a result of those humectants?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's one of the popular kind of buzzwords.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, um, I would say glass skin is that hyper dewy, reflective, poreless aesthetic.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is K-Beauty's dominant aspirational goal.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's no single product that will give you that glass skin.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would say like it's mostly the result of consistent barrier care through time.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a combined effect of a few things.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, strong hydration.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, a smooth and even texture, minimal visible pores, and even pigmentation with no redness or dullness.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if all these things align perfectly, okay, and the skin catches the, you know, the skin catches and reflects light in the way it reads as glowy, that's what we know as glass skin.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And on social media, it's often filtered or lit in a specific way.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And people do all sorts of things to achieve this look, right?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: With heavy occlusive layering, um, using frequent toners and essence layers, a dewy uh finished sunscreen, silicone-based um primers.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: But this actually is a problem because I see the clinical consequences in my office, right?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: You see occlusion, you see disruption of the normal skin cycling, you see silicone buildup that causes comodones in acne tone patients.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so then the question is, Patty, what actually makes a difference?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what actually makes a difference is keeping the skin barrier intact and malhydrated.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we all know that um, you know, since UV damage is one of the biggest drivers of uneven tone and dullness, we need to wear sunscreen.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So be diligent about the sun protection.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: We can, you know, exfoliate, but keep it gentle without over stripping the skin.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where, you know, we integrate ingredients like hyaluronic acid, niacinamide, and gentle exfoliants to support this.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in reality, though, I think you know, this glass skin, poreless skin has more to do with genetics, skin type, and other things rather than what we think it is.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that that's a great dispelling of the myth because I didn't realize people were lighting themselves to make, you know, I'm sort of a novice when it comes to social media.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a consumer more than anything of the of the information.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that's interesting.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because really, historically, like super shiny skin has not been really popular.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, it it's sort of associated with oily skin and acne-prone skin.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is kind of a new trend.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: One of the humectants that I know we find a lot in um Korean beauty products is snail mucin.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Did they popularize snail mucin?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's kind of everywhere now.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, snail mucin is all their rage now, but at the end of the day, what is it?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's glycoprotein cell allantone, right?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I say, as long as the product isn't hurting you, you know, go for it.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, be my guest.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: But you really have to know your ingredient base at the end of the day and what you're getting at.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So don't pick up things just because they're trendy.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Look to see what's actually, you know, creating the effect or um, you know, doing what it's supposed to do.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is that usually one of the steps in a Korean beauty routine will be using something with snail mucin?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it could be one of the 10 10 steps.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: But again, um, you know, looking at what it does, it has you know definite um reproducible evidence in the literature for increasing hydration and tool, tool reduction.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we know that it can do everything else like you know, hyaluronic acid can do, right?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So snail mucin, alatoin, glycosaminoglycans, glycoproteins.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we know what it is, and we can use other things to substitute it if we want to.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good ingredient, but does similar to many of our other ingredients.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: What about PDRN?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's another thing that I think Korean beauty gets accredited for.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So there probably are people listening who don't know what that is.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know there's PDRN, there's PN, so maybe you can tease all of that out for us.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So PDRN and PN are both derived from salmon sperm DNA, PDRN polydeoxyribonucleotide, PN polynucleotide.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, both of these act through the denizene A2A receptor activation, and they have downstream effects with veg F, with fibroblasts, collagen, um, MIDEF as well.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like what they tend to do is help with um different things that people are looking for for anti-aging.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: The wound evidence here is very strong.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of uh data on this, and what I didn't realize was that PDRN um has a regulatory history dating back to 1994 in Italy.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually approved by IFA um for wounds and ulcers.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: But you really want to um look at, you know, where is it acting?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: PDRN is a high molecular weight polymer, it's about a over a thousand uh kilodaltons.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: PN is probably not going through the screen.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or molecular weight fragments of 50 to 1500 kilodaltons.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: So when you talk about when you talk about um these substances, um in Korea they're injectable.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the injectable in office shoes carries the strongest data.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: However, that's not allowed here.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: So when we talk about a lot of the companies formulating with topical PDRN or PN, the evidence is weak because the molecules are well over the 500 Dalton cutoff, right?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think for meaning meaningful transcutaneous absorption without some delivery-enhancing vehicle is not really gonna do anything, right?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I think when you realize um the science behind it, you're like, okay, you know, yeah, we'll have to see if there's a carrier or something that can you know deliver it through the skin.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, microneedling or something that will help help it to deliver through its stratum corneum.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm assuming it's been looked at in lasers, post-procedure situations.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it's been looked at there.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: But again, we don't do that here in the States as much.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, another thing that I know a lot of this ingredient comes from Korea is exosomes.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And they're such a huge buzzword right now.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so maybe, I mean, are they part of a Korean beauty routine or they they aren't manufactured a lot of the exos in Korea?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: They are.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is a topic that I also speak widely on.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And basically, just to refresh, they're about 30 to 150 nanometers.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're extracellular vesicles secreted by all cells.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: They carry mRNA, microRNA, proteins, and lipids, they're peracrine um communicators.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think of them as like basically like envelopes, like, you know, physical like envelopes.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when you send mail, there's like different contents in it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they can be derived from different sources, adipose tissue, mesenchymal stem cell tissue.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so the thing is that like PDRN and PN, exosomes are legally injectable in other countries.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: However, in the United States, they're not.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so that kind of like, you know, makes a huge difference in what we see in some of the clinical results.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And there are few clinical studies, although more and more are coming out.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but as far as now in the United States, no exosome-based product currently holds FDA approval for any type of dermatologic indication.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um, the agency, in fact, has issued like several warnings.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not approved for aesthetic injectable use um in the United States.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I am really excited about some of the new developments, and I I think there are a lot of things um coming down the pipeline, but again, I think it really depends on what message is it carrying, right?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is it for hair?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can't you can't say, oh, it's gonna do hair, promote collagen, do this, do that, um, get rid of pigmentation.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have to know the specific pathway and you have to know the mechanism.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to know what's inside that exosome.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the companies do not disclose all of that information.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: So for the for the listeners who maybe aren't as familiar, they carry contents, these little vesicles, that are unique to the cell that makes them.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: So different cell types make different types of exosomes with different types of proteins in them, microRNA.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: They have lots of little signaling molecules, growth factors and things that can turn on and off certain processes in the skin.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Hair growth, you mentioned these are super popular in the hair growth arena, and then they're also in wound healing, as you mentioned, but they've been looked at in wound healing, much like PDRN and those modalities.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, as we think about this, Jane, we're really entering such a new era of dermatology with these regenerative um ingredients.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're where they're finding their way into treatment plants, they're finding their way into skincare.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's really so exciting, I think.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing, you know.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's great.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: So cool.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And but like we have a lot more to learn, and you bring up a good point that you know, we need more studies, we need them to tease out more for the practitioners what's actually in these different um exosome products so that we know and we can confidently use them and sort of pigeonhole them in the right setting, the right clinical setting.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's not to poo-poo um exosomes itself, it's just to say that you know, like we're still learning.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot of applications for hair growth, and I've and I've seen the literature, it's been expanding.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: However, we need to have head-to-head trials, right?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um those don't exist right now, no double blind randomized control trials for any aesthetic indication.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the data that we need to see.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um another thing that we hear a lot in the Korean beauty arena is spicules.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And they're they're filtering out everywhere, Jane, but spicules, what what are spicules and skincare and like do we need those in our routines?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a really interesting question, Patty, because um I was like, spicules.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: When I first went to Korea and I went to Olive Young, I saw all of these things that were called retling or like needle, microneedling, like type um, you know, devices and concoctions and and cosmetics.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, they're based on something called spicules.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I did a deep dive and looked into this.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, spicules are silica or calcium carbonate.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're derived from like related sponge genera, uh, the freshwater sponge, spongilla, lactose, or sea cucumber.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they have these micro needles, which are about 100 to 500 microns, and they create kind of like transient like micro channels in the stratum corneum to enhance like delivery.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I will say though, um, JAB did publish a formal safety commentary raising concerns about cosmetic rate silicospicule use outside controlled microgating protocols.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that was that was that was um something you can look up.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'll find that, yeah, interesting.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: But uh they are supposed to physically exfoliate and open up tiny uh pathways that let other actives then come in to absorb more effectively.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So they're popular in creating skin care for that reasons.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I tell patients they're a mechanical exfoliant, um, they're not a passive ingredient.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have like sensitive or compromised skin, you have to use it very carefully because you're basically creating these micro injuries, but it's not medical microneedling, and that's what I want to get across because a lot of people think it's like at-home microneedling.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's not because the microneedling that you do in the office uses sterile, depth calibrated cartridges, and the spa grade spicyl paste has no sterility standard and no penetration depth control, and there has been documented risk of granulomas foreign body reaction to the silica.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, good to know.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we had we don't we don't have enough information, honestly, about the safety, it sounds like um and the depth of penetration, etc.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, more to come on that too, I'm sure.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, they are really popular in lots of skincare products.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh another thing, and and I asked this question because this is a question I think all dermatologists get asked, because this is talked about a lot on social media, is double cleansing.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is is that come from Korean beauty, Jane?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think double cleansing has, you know, a long-standing history.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure whether it, you know, is derived necessarily from Korean beauty, yeah, or um something else.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think you can justify doing a double cleanse basically if you have something that you're wearing, like sunscreen or a cosmetic, to ensure that you have adequate removal of lipophilic like residues, um, and something that's uh, you know, but it's unnecessary if you don't have that buildup.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not something that you have to do every day.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something that I tell people, you know, if you want to use um something a double cleanse, you can use a makeup wipe, a gentle makeup wipe, and then go wash your face.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: But you don't necessarily have to use like an oil-based cleanser.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was just gonna ask you that.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's one of the steps, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Which I have an aversion to.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: I like a foamy cleanser, I don't want oil.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it depends on your skin type, too.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right, you know?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so again, if you're wearing heavy makeup, you need to get that makeup off.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're just going about your day and uh you just want to wash your face, I would say one cleanse is enough.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Agree.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's good advice.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, another question, and this is so right up your alley, we hear a lot about Korean sunscreens.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are they really better than our sunscreens here?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do they have unique ingredients that we don't have?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: They probably do.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is uh KBD's single biggest public health contribution.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it has to do both with the filters and the formulation.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm just gonna put a plug here because our next generation UV filter Tinazorb S or Bimotrizanol or Parcel Shield um has.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Recently got approved on June 9th, and in a couple of days, the final order will be effective on August 9th.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the first new sunscreen active that we had in over 25 years.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And sunscreen filters like these have superior UVA as well as vastly better photostability.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: So this is huge in terms of like what we can do with sunscreen formulation.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: The other filters that are missing that I would love to see in the United States that Korea has to M, this also covers visible light.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uvenol A, which has strong UVA protection, Uvenol T150, it's a UVB filter that's known for photostability.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: So now we have the parcel shield here.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need to use octocryline, right?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because we don't have to have like other photostabilizers.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Stabilizer, huh?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And again, Mexrel XL, which used to be approved and then went away, right?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: They have been long used in European and Asian sunscreens.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the standard for K-Beauty is the SPF 50, PA.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the PA has to do with UBA protection because when we look at SPF, it only looks at UVB protection.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And basically, you know, this is in contrast to the norm of SPF 10, uh, sorry, 15 or 30, which a lot of US consumers will just default to.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the for relation side is really about cosmetic elegance, lower white cast, faster absorption, better wear under makeup.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And this correlates directly to adherence.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And this drives compliance, right?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because I see a huge population of skin of color people in my practice.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where the SPF adoption has historically lagged.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I've urged you know the current companies to do something about this.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, another thing is that there's also a tinted visible light blocking category that's important, and this is good for people with post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation or those who have Fitzpatrick 4 through 6.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so this is just not about UV coverage, but the K-beauty tinted sunscreens address that directly.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's fabulous.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, visible light is so important, it causes so much hyperpigmentation and darker skin types.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is a lot of this is stuff we did not know years ago.
• 24:31
  unknown: Right.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I go back in the in the world of photo protection long enough to know when we weren't even talking about visible light and infrared.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Infrared's a problem too.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it contributes to photo aging.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got to make people understand that there's a much more expanded spectrum of solar radiation that includes UV, visible light, and infrared.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: So interesting.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jane, I can't thank you enough.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: I knew this was going to go like that.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I learned so much.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sorting out some of the fact and the fiction for us.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'll skip my double cleansing.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was feeling guilty.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Ted and I talk about double cleansing by the way all the time.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, should we be doing that?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Should we be doing that?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm so happy to have had that discussion with you.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and also your expertise on all these interesting ingredients that are quite common in the K-beauty world, but maybe not as familiar over here, where they're starting to trickle into the marketplace, but we don't know as much about them.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for sharing all of that with us.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: And for those of you listening, I know you're gonna love this episode.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that you guys again will give us a great review.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Subscribe if you like our content, and everybody have a great day.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And don't forget the Science of Skin Summit in Austin in September of this year at the Fairmont Hotel.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: We'd love to have you all there.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Have a great day and thanks for listening.