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REWIND: Kordell Stewart's Trials and Triumphs · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to another episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: On this episode, we'll be covering the Cordell Stewart, Don't Call Me Slash, era of the Steelers.
0:11
SPEAKER_01: My name is Steve Wirt, and I'm with I'm Tim Hannon.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: And as usual, we're going to cover a Pittsburgh Sports Memory Blast from the past.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, this one might be a little controversial.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, we probably have some differing opinions on Cordell here.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: But um, it should be fun, and uh, it's always fun.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh, this topic has been covered a little bit, but we haven't covered it, so it isn't covered until we've covered it.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: We'll have the final word here on Cordell.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Get rid of the ball, Cordell.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: I just anytime I hear Cordell Stewart's name, I just think of fans yelling at him.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: Poor Cordell.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: But uh uh Cordell, you know, he he left a complicated legacy.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Um he he really started off like really excited and I think kind of captured the imagination of fans.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: So um to kind of set that all up, we'll um in uh '94, uh Cordell had a successful college career.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: He went to the University of Colorado.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: He won a couple bowl games.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: Um in even in Colorado, he set uh uh many passing records, passes completed, most passing yards, and um touchdown passes.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: His probably his most memorable moment in um college was throwing a Hail Mary against Michigan um at the end of the game to win.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: Um I think Michael Westbrook caught it.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Ray Carruth was on the field too prior to his prison.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: I think Ray Caruth's out of prison.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: I I think he got parole.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: Believe it or not.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you the answer to that.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: But definitely that was like his big moment.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: And that's I know like I that's the reason I had heard of Cordell Stewart was because of that play.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: And it was a big pass.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: It was like a 75-yard pass.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't yeah, it was kind of lucky, it bounced off like another receiver and went in the end zone.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: And Ty Law kind of aided on that.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Like he tackled Westbrook in the end zone after he caught the pass, so great job, Ty Law.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Um but just Cordell getting it to the end zone, I think that's the thing that you know, ha there's a lot of Hail Marys in football, and and they're just like you said, they're sometimes they're just lucky, but the fact that he threw it from where he threw it, I think that's what really got people's attention.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, but in general, the offense they ran in Colorado under Coach Bill McCartney uh was an option one, so there wasn't a terrible amount of passing, and it was more based on running the ball.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: Um and going into the draft, uh, Cordell did not want to switch positions like some other players that we'll discuss later in the podcast.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: Um he wanted to play quarterback, and um some teams wanted him to switch positions because he was so had a lot of he was a very athletic uh player, but um Cordell really wanted to play quarterback and that's where he saw his future lying.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: So that did hurt his draft status a little bit, his insistence on playing quarterback.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: And remember, Steve, this was the era like this was the era of Major Harris and Tony Rice and who else?
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Charlie Ward, Tommy Frazier at Nebraska.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was a lot of quarterbacks who who didn't like make it in the NFL.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: I think too the NFL was so different, like this the rules were very different.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: We'll discuss that later, too.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: Like in the offenses were different.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Like it was a lot of different the quarterback, the more protocol toward the prototypical quarterback, if I can say that, is uh probably Chore Aikem.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: I would say the guy who kind of stands in the product product pocket and you know throws a pass.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: So I mean it's you know a little different than what it's kind of become.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: And I and I remember that being said about some of those other guys I mentioned too.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, well, you d you know, they definitely can't play quarterback in the NFL, but maybe they could play some other position.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: They could play safety or they could play wide receiver or whatever.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: And Charlie Ward actually had a successful NBA career, right?
4:12
SPEAKER_01: So you know, I don't figure.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: But but it was like it was just assumed that if you were a running quarterback in college, yeah, you had no chance in the NFL.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: Especially back then.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: Right.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: Um early in the um the so he follows the Steelers with the 60th pick in the second round of the NFL draft of 95.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: I remember the even then there was some excitement.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: I remember people were pretty excited about the Steelers drafting him.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: I thought he went in the later round, but no, he went in the second round.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: So I mean not a first round pick, but still second round, still a pretty decently high pick.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: Um early uh so in his 95 season, after the preseason, uh he actually found himself as the fourth string quarterback, and they kept four quarterbacks this year that year.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of a weird year because the Steelers had like all these guys would become starters in the NFL, and they would all make the playoffs and all have at least one very successful year in the NFL.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: And that those those players were Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomzak, and Jim Miller.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, Neil O'Donnell had been there, what, three or four years?
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh Tomzak was a longtime veteran.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: We'll discuss him a little later, and Jim Miller was a second-year rookie.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, Jim Miller was still kind of a rookie, and Cordell was kind of this, you know, other guy, and they didn't want to let him go since he was a second-round pick, and I guess they didn't want to get rid of Jim Miller, so they just kind of kept Cordell.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: And um, he really didn't see the field for half the season because of these other three quarterbacks.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: And um, I remember we've discussed this game before, I think, in um other podcasts, the uh Super Bowl 30 podcast was the Cincinnati game that we attended, and uh Cordell played wide receiver that game, and uh Neil O'Donnell just wouldn't throw him the ball for whatever reason because he was he was open in the middle of the field and he just he wouldn't he throw him the ball or I don't know what O'Donnell was doing, but um the Steelers ended up losing the game.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: And uh the Steelers ended up kind of getting a little desperate after that game, and they were moving Cardell Lake around in positions, so I think they they decide they needed a little bit more on offense, and they they started to you know move Cordell around, and you know, they kind of like we have this guy who's really talented, we need to get him involved in the offense.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: So uh against Cleveland, he had an amazing touchdown.
6:42
SPEAKER_01: This is like one of the highlights of that season where he runs all the way to the right, and then he like fakes out a defender, runs all the way back to the other side and throws a touchdown pass Dernie Mills.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: It was uh one of the highlights of his early career, and I think that really got people excited.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, later in the season against Cincinnati again, I guess Cincinnati decided to play the same defense.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: Cordell was wide open.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers were actually down by like two touchdowns, and they came back and scored like 35 unanswered points and actually won that game, but Cordell had like a big touchdown pass for 71 yards.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh in a playoff game against Buffalo, he had uh he then he started punting.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: So they put him in a punter and they they did a punt to pin the Bills back.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Um so that was in the playoffs.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: And then the playoffs he had the um famous touchdown in the AFC championship game right before the half.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: They kind of kept the Steelers in it because the Steelers had a really bad half.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Um but he had stepped out of bounds and come back in and the referees missed it, but they yeah, didn't have instant replay back then, and so the Steelers kind of got a gift touchdown there at the end of the half.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: Um big thing with Cordell in his first season, he became this like fan favorite because I guess, you know, it's kind of like you know, he's a popular player, he's easy to spot, you know, he's making a lot of plays, and he kind of captured like people's imagination with, you know, because this is something new to the NFL, like, you know, a real athletic person playing quarterback, you know.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: And um he Myron Cope gave him the nickname Slash because he played so many different positions quarterback, slash wide receiver, slash running back, slash punter.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: Um Stewart did play in uh Super Bowl 30.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: Um he had four rushes for 15 yards, and um, spoiler alert, it would be the only Super Bowl that Cordell would ever play in.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: And he didn't really do that much in the Super Bowl, which is kind of weird because I think Ernie Mills ended up getting hurt in that game.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: You think Cordell would have been more focused on, but Neil Donald was too busy throwing the ball to Larry Brown.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: Stewart's had bigger bigger problems in that game.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: Um he lost out on rookie of the year to some guy named Curtis Martin.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Curtis Martin had a really good rookie season, even though uh Bill Parcells after his first game called him a one-game wonder.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: But I think that was just some motivational head games Parcells like to play.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, his first year, like it's hard to understate the like excitement.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, he was just this like utility, he can do anything kind of player, and and you're right, the fans just loved every time he came on the field, you'd you'd like want to watch where does where's Cordell lining up?
9:28
SPEAKER_00: What are they gonna do?
9:29
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna run a reverse to them?
9:30
SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna have him go out for a pass?
9:31
SPEAKER_00: Is he gonna punt the ball?
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Like any he could do anything when he was on the field.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: And I think the media played into it too.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: The the media got a lot of hype.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: I remember they had like a little graphic, like it was like old 90s like computer graphic, like you know, they would like click on it and like it would be like open up and it'd be like, oh, and here's all his different positions, you know.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: So the media kind of played into it too.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't like Cordell was seeking this.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: And then um he got commercial deals.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, I guess you know, if you go on our website, you'll be able to check them out.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: Um one was with Nike, which is pretty funny because the late Jerry Stiller, I think is absolutely, was one of the funnier actors on Seinfeld, plays Vince Lombardi, and he basically like if Frank Costanza could be Vince Lombardi, that's that's basically how it plays out.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: But it's pretty funny.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: It is pretty funny.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: And then he did another commercial with uh him and Bill Cower, and that was another Nike commercial.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, Scordell in his first had a pretty successful rookie season, you know, even though he was like basically didn't start the season, was you know kind of inactive, and you know, a lot of those you know, practice squad guys don't see much.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: He actually, you know, kind of came out of off the practice squad.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: So in 96 uh season, um, the Steelers change offensive coordinators.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: They go to a guy named Chan Gailey.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Um Ron Earhart left to coach the Jets and he took Neil O'Donnell with him.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh that worked out well.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, for both of them, for sure.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh before the season, uh there is a QB competition between Jim Miller, Mike Tomzak, and Cordell Stewart.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh Jim Miller uh had been drafted by the Steelers in '94.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: He was from Michigan State.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: He'd played in NFL Europe.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: Um he gotten hurt, but he had had some success for the Frankfurt Galaxy, if anybody was a big NFL Europe fan.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: I love the galaxy.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh and then he was heading into his third season with the Steelers.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh Mike Tonzek was a journeyman quarterback.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Um he is uh in 96.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: He had spent most of his career with the Chicago Bears.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: He'd been with a couple other teams, but his most memorable stop was with the Bears.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh he was actually in the Super Bowl shuffle video with the rest of the 85 Bears, believe it or not.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: Um Cordell was, of course, in his second year after a highly successful rookie year.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh some other stuff that kind of happened that, you know, it's some background that year.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh Bam Morris, the running back from the year before, got arrested for having I don't know, they never did, I never could find the exact amount.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: They said between five and fifty pounds of marijuana in his trunk.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: So uh it's so he was kind of out of the picture.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: He did some time in prison.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: And the biggest, probably one of the biggest trades in team history happened, they brought Jerome Bettis in to uh help out the offense.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: So at the end of preseason, uh Cower picks Jim Miller over Tom Zak and Stewart in uh what Cower called a gut decision.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Cower's exact quote was it was hard to pinpoint.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that there was a clear winner.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: Um I remember that preseason um they're playing the Eagles and Cordell is playing at the very end of the game, and he Anthony throws again like a 70-yard Hail Mary that's caught on like the eight-yard line.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: Um and then the next play they they they punch it into the end zone.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: So I uh there was I don't remember if Cordell outplayed those other two guys in the preseason.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: Obviously Coward didn't think so.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: But I remember he was still capable of making these like exciting plays.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: And and of all the preseason games, you know, I don't remember too many preseason games, but I remember that one.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: Him throwing that that like really super long hail Mary against the Eagles.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and uh it's kind of I don't know if Jim Miller was kind of a s safe choice or you know I'm not quite well I think they thought I mean Coward had two options.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: You could go with the journeyman and play it safe.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: You could say, like, okay, we're the defending AFC champions, this is still a good team, let's keep things sort of going now that we lost our quarterback, let's go with the veteran.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: Or you know what, one of these two guys, Miller or Cordell, is a quarterback of the future, let's put him in now and start the future now.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: So I th I think that's where his head was, but I'm sure you'll you'll get to this here in a minute.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: It was uh it was a gut decision.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: His head didn't stay there very long.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: Which I just think was Phil Cower saying, I'm not going to tell you why I made a decision.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Because I don't want to give it away or be held responsible for it later.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Right.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Well and maybe it was just a gut.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: Maybe he just maybe he just didn't have like sometimes you just have to do that in life.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: You just
14:16
SPEAKER_00: have to do that.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: It's not like a no-brainer.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: Um I remember a PG article before the season starting declaring it was Miller time and endorsing Jim Miller.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: I could not find that article.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: I think it was Ron Cook.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure it was Ron Cook.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: But I just remember my dad just like the whole next because they go to Jacksonville and the whole time, it's Miller time.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: Like my dad just thought that was so funny.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: But uh so the first game of the season, really, the Steelers really stink.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: They stink it up, they go to Florida, and all three quarterbacks end up playing.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: The offense looks horrible.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh nobody really looked good.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: He kind of rotated everybody.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: The offense just kind of looked in shambles, like quite honestly, there was nothing to the offense.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: So um after the game, like like you said, I Cower eventually goes to the journeyman QB in Mike Tomzak.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: And Mike Tomzak um ends up starting the rest of the season in the one playoff game.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: Um Mike Tomzak did play well at times, but there were times he would scare me.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: Like he got to like the Bubby Brister, where like, oh my god, he's gonna throw an interception every time you drop back.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: So Tomzak, you know, in that season he had 15 touchdowns and 17 interceptions, which is bad.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: And he probably had like 20 more like the ball defending the arm.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh Stewart had a nice 80-yard run against Carolina, and but the Steelers there lost that game.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: That was kind of like a highlight of his career.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, they keep Cordell, they bring they keep him as a slash role, and uh that was Chan Gailey.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Chan Gailey ended up being a really good coordinator and a pretty good head coach, I always thought.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: Um and he kind of knew how to like work with Cordell for some reason.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: Like he knew how to use him.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: So he does uh he he does throw 30 passes, but he only has 11 completions that year.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh no touchdown passes that year.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: He does much better running the ball.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: He has five TDs rushing with 171 yards.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: Um the Steelers finished the season at 10-6.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, they beat the Colts in the wildcard game 42-14.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: Cordell has two rushing touchdowns and a pass completion.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: So a pretty successful game.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, they kind of blow the Colts out.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: That was, I just remember that game they hyped a go, they kept showing highlights of the Jim Jim Harbaugh pass that fell incomplete, and you know, it was like a wildcard game, and they were just trying to hype and it ended up being just a blowout because yeah.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: The Colts, you know, number one, the Steelers always beat the Colts, and number two, the Colts weren't that great that year.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Um the next week, and I remember watching this game with uh at least part of this game with with our producer Dave.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: Um I there was a heavy fog.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: Like if they would have played this game today, they probably would have postponed it.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: They probably would not have played this game, but there was like they were calling the fog bowl, too.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: And uh once again, the Patriots had uh Curtis Martin and uh pretty good team, and uh I think Parcells was the head coach.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: So um pretty good team, and uh they got they would go and just absolutely torch the Steelers.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh 23-9 was the final score.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Curtis Martin had 166 yards and three D three TDs rushing.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh the Patriots would go on to play in the uh Super Bowl that year, losing to the Packers.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: So the you know the Patriots were pretty good that year.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: Um in the divisional playoff game, the one against the Patriots, Cordell would attempt 10 passes and not complete even one of them.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: And he was only able to rush for 19 yards.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's kind of like starting to foreshadow like when when he plays against better defenses, his play kind of declines, and that would be kind of one of the themes of his career.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: Um they switched out Stewart and Tomzak a lot at quarterback this game.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: I guess they were trying to yeah, the offense was struggling, and it really didn't work.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Um I just remember I think Rod Woodson got juked out by Curtis Martin one time on one of the long runs early in the game.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was uh it was a pretty ugly and a forgettable playoff game for Cordell and the Steelers in general.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: I didn't even watch all of it.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: I think I watched maybe half of it.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was like over by halftime.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: And and that that I mean that that the Mike Tomzak experiment kind of went how you expected it.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: Like Tomzak Tomzak had a safe floor, you know, so they won ten games that year with Tomzak as a starter.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: He was ten and five as a starter, but then his ceiling was not very high.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: And so you get into a playoff game and the defense gives up some big plays, and Mike Tomzak's not the guy that can bring them back.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, Mike Tomzak was like the game manager, he could you know, maybe carry you forward, although he made he also threw a lot of interceptions, so that's not really that good of a game manager either.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: But but that's the thing.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: He would make some plays though sometimes too, though.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, I don't want to try I mean, again, he did it he had a fairly again, they won the division that year, they made it to the second round of the playoffs.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: But I guess you weren't gonna beat the elite teams in the conference or or win the Super Bowl unless you had a really, really good defense.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Like they had Jerome Bettis had a really good season that year, so that was really their whole offense was kind of running the ball, yeah.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: And I think they that and that goes on for like a couple more years, yeah.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: And and their defense just wasn't the same as it had been like two or three years ago.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: Well Rod would that really was like the end of Rod Woodson like being really a dominant corner.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: Like it took another year at San Francisco and Baltimore for him to figure that out.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: But that was it.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: The Patriots game was his last game as a sealer.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: And and you're right, he was definitely done.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: Um he was no longer the Hall of Fame shutdown corner.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: And and it just that's he had had the injury the year earlier.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, without without an elite, I think Tom Zach could have led them back to the Super Bowl if the defense still would have been elite, but it wasn't.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: And and so yeah, now you head into the next season, now what do you do?
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: So going into 97, um, the Steelers do a curious thing.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: They just kind of hand the job to Cordell Stewart.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: They uh the front offense of Bill Coward, just you know, Donahoe and this is our guy.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: So they actually cut Jim Miller.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: So they get rid of the young competition.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: They do keep Tom Zach, but they just name Cordell the the starter.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: He's like, okay, going in the season, he's a starter.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: There's no competition or anything like that.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: Um and in '97, they're kind of rewarded.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh Stewart has a pretty successful year, quite honestly.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: And he had some great games that year.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: Um I remember the week 15 game against Denver.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Stewart had three touchdown passes and two rushing touchdowns, and the Steelers beat the Denver was really probably the second best team or the best team in the AFC.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: It was always it was kind of neck and neck, I thought, that year between them and Denver.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: And of course, Dallas was really the probably the best team in the NFL still at that point.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe it was Green.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Well, Green Bay won the Super Bowl that year.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: The year before.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Green Bay in San Francisco, but in the AFC, right, it was basically Denver, Kansas City, and Pittsburgh.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: New England was up there too.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: So you had some powerhouse teams in the AFC, but uh when they played Denver in week fifteen, that was like you said, that was Well they had Terrell Davis and Elway was at the end of his career, but yeah, L Way was still pretty good.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: He could still make some plays and stuff.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: Um It was a really great accurate passing against that.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: Like that was probably one of Cordell's better passing games, you know.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: But once again, like Denver kind of played like a man defense, and that's another thing we'll get into later.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: Like it's kind of one of like Cordell's weaknesses.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: So it it was it was they they definitely the Denver defense could not hand home that game and I remember the um the final touchdown that he scored, the Stewart was up by I think four or or something like that.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: They were trying to Denver was trying to hold them to a field goal so that they could get the ball back and have a chance to to still be within one score.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: And it was third down and Denver was was prepared for Stewart to to you know to pass.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: So they were playing like a a pass defense and he ran, yeah.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Like like an intentional, like he took like he takes like one step back to the phone.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: That's a tough play to stop because like the all the defenders drop off in zone to cover people and it kind of like opens up the middle of the field.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: And the defenders that are rushing go to the outside, and if that it leaves basically your if you have a like a really good running quarterback one on one with a nose tackle, like you're probably gonna win that nine times out of ten.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: And it was it was just you could see Denver just had no answer, like okay, okay, we're ready for him to pass now, and then he'd run.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're ready for him to run now, then he'd pass.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: It was just he just picked them apart.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: And when they won that game, and then especially after the next week of training you're gonna talk about next, I thought that was gonna be our fifth Super Bowl that year.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: I really did.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he had a great game against New England.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Um Let me see, did I Yeah, I did it.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: Um I didn't really cover New England too much, but that was that was a big game.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: He completed a fourth down pass to uh that was that Thig Pen or Yeah.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh where he like barely kept his feet in.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: And then he I know he completed like a touchdown late in the game, and that was the infamous Kievan Henry, you know.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: They were down by eight points.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: And he had the I think he converted a f so so what had happened was Drew Bledzo threw a bad interception.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: A really bad interception.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: Keenan Henry was a defensive line.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: Which I yelled, yeah, yeah.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: Run run.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it was like because it was just Keven Henry was like big and slow, and like it really wasn't his job to pick off passes.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: But Drew Bledzo just saw him and you know, hey, he's wide open.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: But even after Drew Bledzo made that mistake, Cordell was still to convert a fourth down and a two-point conversion and drove them down the field to win in overtime.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he he like made some really like that pass on fourth down.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, the catch more than the pass was out of bounds, but the guy caught it and I think it was I want to say it was Thig Penn or maybe it was Hastings.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, and and he caught it and he tapped his feet just barely.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: And that game was at Foxboro.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if they lose that game, they would have gone back to Foxboro for the playoffs.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: So and another thing that had been happening is like whenever the Steelers got in like short yardage down the by the goal line, like they would just call QB sneak.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: And even like fourth and one, like it was totally unstoppable that year.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: Like like you said, it was just like nobody could stop it.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's very similar.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I I think it's very similar to the season that Lamar Jackson had in 2019 for the Ravens.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know if Cordell was quite that dominant.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: He wasn't like the league MVP, but it was very similar to where you know, or even Michael Vick, his first really good season, or RD three, his first really good season.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: Like just teams had no answer.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: They didn't know how to do it, and especially back then.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: Because back then you never saw you never Well, I think the linebackers were so much bigger, and like they weren't meant like Lavon Kirkland was a freak.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: He could he was that big and could cover people, but like he was the exception, not the rule.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, most people were you know, linebackers were Levon Kirkland's sides are smaller and couldn't run with anybody.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: It it just was different than what the the NFL had ever seen before.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: And the at college football you saw offenses like that all the time, but not in the NFL, and nobody was prepared for it.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: And again, it really felt like the Steelers, you know, were were gonna potentially win a Super Bowl.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: So they they do 11, they get 11 and 5, which is actually better than the year before.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: And um, they played the divisional game, and this is like this game.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: I remember this game so distinctly.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: They had to play New England in again here, but New England had like a ton of injuries.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: Like I remember that too.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: Like New England really didn't have much on offense that game.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: It was like Drew Bledzo, that was it.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: And I think they had Ben Coates, but I think even Ben Coates got hurt during the game and they didn't even have him for the second half.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: And uh who was no Parcells was not the coach that year.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: Pete Carroll was Pete Carroll, yeah.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: So they they had uh Cordell had a rushing like a long like 30-yard as run or something early in the game.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: I remember that.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: It was real early in the game.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: He ran he ran down the left side.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Sideline, yeah.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: And and he kind of turned around and and was like kind of holding his arm up in the air as he's running into the end zone, looking at the ref because he was right on the white right on the sideline, and he wasn't sure if he stepped out of bounds or not, and n nobody from the defense was anywhere near him.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: So he wasn't sure if they thought he stepped out of bounds, like, but it was a touchdown.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: And that ended up being the only touchdown of the game.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it was seven.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: Seven.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: And then like New England couldn't New England did kick two field goals with Vinateri, and Vinateri actually missed a field goal, I think.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: I I'm pretty sure, yeah.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Because I remember I think your brother said I remember yeah, there's the AFC Pro Bowl kicker, yeah, or something like that.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: And then uh and this was just like a white knuckle ride.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: I just remember like, oh my gosh, you were like hanging on for dear life.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: And um and Cordell got stuffed on the on the goal line.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: Like they called a QB sneak on fourth and goal from like the one that would have put the game away pretty much, and New England stuffed it.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: And um but they ended up winning seven to six in one of the most like stressful playoff wins ever.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: And uh and uh another fun fact is this is the only time the Steelers have beaten the Patriots in the playoffs.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: I I was that's hard to believe.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was way back in '98.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I was at that game and I and all I remember is thinking, I can't believe we won a playoff game by the score of seven to six.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Like what a crazy score for a playoff game.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: But that put the Steelers in the AFC championship game.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it was a it was a rematch with Denver and Rivers.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, at at home, you know, they'd beaten Denver, and you think, well, they should at least make the Super Bowl.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: They can beat Denver.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: But Denver figures out, you know, what they made.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's always tough to beat a team twice in one season, and Denver was definitely good enough to figure that out, especially on defense.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh Stewart did complete the same amount of passes as John Elway did, 18, but John Elway didn't throw three interceptions.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: And uh a lot, uh I think Norm Johnson missed a couple field goals too.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: And um he really only threw one late touchdown.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: And I always I mean, people oh, people probably oh he brought him, he almost brought him back.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: No, he didn't.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: That was I always thought that was more of like garbage time touchdown.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: And then they would have, you know, they they kicked off and they uh they conveyed what Denver converted a third down against Kirkland, you know, Shannon Sharp pushed off Kirkland, but I mean I I don't know.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: I I I don't think there was much.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: The defense, you know, wouldn't have had to make that stop if Cordell just doesn't turn the ball over, even like, you know, twice.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: If he just only turns it over once instead of three times, you know.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, the the the thing that so the Steelers were actually winning that game um at one point fourteen to seven.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: And I think I think it was fourteen to ten when Cordell threw his first interception, and it was like they had the ball in Denver territory, and he tried to And that was where Romanowski pointed at his head and stuff, like yeah.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: Bill Romanowski was a linebacker for the um Broncos and he yeah, like did this like like slapped his head, like, what are you stupid at Cordell, and that was sort of the memorable image from that game.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Um but but but the Steelers were winning, they had all the momentum, and Cordell threw an interception in their territory, and I I just remember that turned the whole the whole game around and then they started to score points and and you're right.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: I think LA completed some passes at the end of the half.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: They had some questionable pass interference calls.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: They did.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: They did.
30:22
SPEAKER_01: But you know, that's you know, when you're playing, you know, you gotta be sometimes you gotta overcome refs calls like that.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: So it was 24-14 at the half, and Stewart made a big turnover in the third quarter when they got deep into Denver territory.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: And then, like you said, he s he scored a late touchdown to make it 24-21, and then and then Sharp converted to third down, but it was like it was too little too late at that point.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, I I mean it wasn't like Cordell lost single-handedly lost the game.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: The defense gave up a bunch of points, they didn't play as well.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: But all the magic, like that was the magic of that season.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Like Cordell could bring them back if they were.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think too, like, once they got so far behind, it was they kind of took Bettis out of the game, which once again that was you know, kind of like Bettis was definitely, you know, I didn't put his stat because this is about Cordell.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure at some point we'll go over the 98 season in more detail on our other podcast.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, yeah.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: It was it was a disappointing loss, though.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: And man, it was it was disappointing.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: And y but I don't know, how did you feel after that game, Steve?
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Because I kind of felt like, okay, that stinks, Cordell had didn't have a great.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: I figured there would be many great years.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: I thought that was the beginning of another, oh well, we're gonna have this guy's young, we still got a pretty good team.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: We can, you know, so I mean, I thought for years to come we would be, you know, at least in the playoffs, if not in the mix, to at least make it to the Super Bowl.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: In the 1970s, the Steelers lost the 72 AFC championship game to the Dolphins before they went on to win four Super Bowls.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes your first, you know, the first young team out there isn't gonna do it, but then it's like you said, the start of something and it's Yeah.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, this was the actually the end.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: I think I think uh yeah, Denver went on to win the Super Bowl over Green Bay.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: That was the first time the AFC had won a Super Bowl since 1983.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: Um it like I said, like I said, this is one of the more disappointing losses in team history, and it really it stung at the time, but boy, you didn't realize like that was gonna be, you know, Stewart finished the season with 3,000 passing yards and 21 touchdowns overall, but he did throw 17 interceptions.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: But like with Cordell, you always have to factor in like there was always like Stagerwald and some of the other people that were like Cordell kind of like defenders.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: Like I remember John Stagerwald was like a big Cordell defender, like, well, you got to figure in his rushing touchdowns.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, that's great.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: But you know, so even if you do 11 plus 21 is what, 23?
32:47
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, 17 interceptions and then six fumbles, so you better figure in his fumbles too, so that's even.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: So he's even for the year.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: That's you're supposed to have a touchdown to interception ratio of three to one.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: That's considered a successful quarterback.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: And he wasn't even at two to one.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: I think we talked about Mike Tomzak turning the ball over a ton the year before that.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: And I just I think we could overlook it at the time because Cordell could make up for it by making some big dynamic play.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: Like that run I talked about against the Broncos in the regular season.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Mike Tomzak couldn't do that.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: There was a fourth down run, too, in that game, I think, too.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, yeah.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: That's what I mean.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's why it was sort of like easy to overlook the the turnovers, because okay, he's gonna have turnovers, but look what he can do.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: Look what he can do.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: And we never had like you know, this at that point.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: We'd always had like the Neil O'Donnell, Bobby Brister, yeah.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Mike Tom.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: Mike Tom's actually.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean I mean people were starving for good we had not had a a good quarterback since Bradshaw really.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Since Bradshaw.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: And so it was like, hey, we we finally have a a star quarterback.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: Like it's the first time, you know, in in so I think that's why I think it was easy to overlook things.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so heading into the 98 season, um, I think this is when like and that would be, you know, just to preface this, and this is like kind of a spoiler alert for the next couple seasons, is uh that would be the last playoff appearance for Stewart and the Steelers in the 90s.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: And that was 1998, the winter of 98, right?
34:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was the 97 season.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: So the 98 season, um, this starts another to start.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: Chain Gailey leaves as offensive coordinator.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: I think he was head coach.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: Did he go head coach of Dallas?
34:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: And uh in one of the weirder episodes in team history, Coward like likes Cordell so much, he lets him interview candidates for offensive coordinator.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: So Cordell basically hires his own coordinator, a gentleman named uh Ray Sherman.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh Sherman was a quarterback coach with the Minnesota Vikings Vikings.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, according to Bob Labiola from a Steelers QA article, Sherman was so over his head that season that he called a play from the Vikings playbook during a game in November.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: So uh and another fun fact about Ray Sherman is um when uh Daryl Drake died in 2019 suddenly, they actually brought Sherman back.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: And um as of this as of 2020, Ray Sherman's still the wide receiver's coach.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: So you know, kind of a nice little symmetry for Ray Sherman.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: He you know, he's still out there being a he just you know better position coach maybe than offensive coordinator.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: But um good for good for Ray Sherman for hanging in there.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: But it was definitely a disaster.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean with him being the offensive coordinator.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then too, like we covered this before in uh the the 2000 broadcast.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: A turmoil in the front office between uh Cower and Donahoe starts the re you know, we're letting a lot of players go.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: We're not signing anybody, and then the draft wasn't maybe as good, but even when you draft a player, it takes like two or three years, so the losses in free agency weren't being able to be made up by the people in the draft quick enough.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: So I mean the ninety-eight draft did yield Deshay Townsend, Heinz Ward and Al Athana.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: Two of those guys are probably gonna be in the Hall of Fame.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: So I mean that's not a horrible draft, actually.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: That's actually a pretty darn good draft.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: But it just took, you know, it took Heinz Ward three years to develop, and Townsend, I would say a year or two, too.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: So um the season it also started a trend where the Steelers would start strong but fade into the second half of the season.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh the Tampa, there was a game in Tampa where Cordell only completed nine passes and he threw three interceptions, so he was benched and they brought Tam Tomzak back in and the cameras captured him crying on the sidelines.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where fans kind of had started to lose faith in Cordell.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: That was such a turning point.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: And and I don't know.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I don't know how that plays out today.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: I just know in 1998 that that played out very poorly, and fans just it was amazing too because Well it wasn't like it was like and he i it's like he I think it just showed a lack of like, you know, you have to be a little bit more mature sometimes and just there was some immaturity, I think.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean and he was he was like very emotionally crying too.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: And and there's nothing wrong with crying, certainly, but I think like you said, it's boy, was he crying because just because he got bent?
37:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, hold it.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I would say at least hold it together till you you know get by you were you're not on camera.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: Don't do that on camera and in front of your team.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: That's that's especially when you're a team leader.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: It's this is much different than like Heinz Ward crying because man, we lost the game.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: And it's after the game, and it wasn't in front of the media, you know.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: I just it was a different it was like he cared so much for his teammate and he wanted to win for drone.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: This was like woe is me and it's like.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: Pretty much every press conference.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I said, it it I think you're right.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: I think you know, and whether whether it's right or wrong, I think that football fans saw it and probably still would see it today as you know, why are you why are you crying?
38:03
SPEAKER_00: And what's the scenario?
38:04
SPEAKER_00: What's the scenario?
38:05
SPEAKER_01: There's no crying in football if Tom Hanks was coaching them.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, getting benched.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: You're you're crying because you got benched, and yeah, it it definitely shows like a he couldn't handle somebody telling him he wasn't good enough to stay in the game was how it came across.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: Um so the Steelers had a seven and four record heading into week thirteen, and they lost the last five games and went seven and nine.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: And that was like another fun part of the season is like, well, if this this happens and the Steelers win, and you know, plea teams like A, B, and C win, lose, or tie, you know, it was like, yeah, they're not good enough to make the playoffs.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: And that was the first time they'd missed the playoffs in Bill Cowers coaching tenure.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was shocking, especially like you said, they were seven and four.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: Like all they had to do was win probably two of those last five games, and they probably still would have been in or at least close to it.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: But they just dropped them all.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: And um and and and so it just it all went downhill real fast.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and Cordell's stats for that year, he had 25 2,560 yards.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: He only had 11 touchdowns passing, but he threw 18 interceptions.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: There's the interceptions, the turnovers.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: He had 406 yards rushing and two touchdowns, but he had three fumbles.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: So he had 21 turnovers total again.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: It and it was definitely a drop-off from the previous year.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: So Ray Sherman is is like go after one season, you know.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: But Ray, don't don't don't be too upset for Ray Sherman.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: He landed right on his feet, coached for many more years, and is still coaching.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so good for him.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and it it's hard to say whether um like Ray Sherman's offense uh, you know, uh contributed to the drop-off, or whether Cordell's bad play contributed to Ray Sherman looking like a failure.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
39:51
SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's it's hard to say.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: Chicken or the egg kind of argument.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: And and and you could also argue that, you know, t again, in 1997, teams had no answer for Cordell.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: And maybe in 1998 they'd figured some things out.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can go back and look at other quarterbacks who had similar sort of paths where they came in, they were on fire.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: You can look at Colin Kaepernick, you can look at um RG3, like these these these freak athletic quarterbacks just took the league by storm and then they there was a drop-off the second season, the third season, whatever.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: And and that wasn't true for everybody.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: Michael Vick was he outlasted that for a few minutes.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, we'll we'll cover that a little more later.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: I have like a whole section.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: So maybe we don't want to give my thoughts here.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, maybe we don't want to give that all away right now.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: We'll finish up Cordell's career here.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, that'll make for some good.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have some good comparisons.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: Maybe not as good as some of those, but I do have some other people.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: And historically, too.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: So something to look forward to.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: Um in '99, um, they I guess they this time didn't let Cordell hire his own offensive coordinator.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: And they actually hired like a guy who was very successful and would be successful after a stint in Pittsburgh, and that was Kevin Gilbride.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: Now, Kevin Gilbride is a personality and he's a little bit abrasive.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: And um, his most famous thing, besides like he had a great offense in Houston with Warren Moon.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, he got punched by Buddy Ryan during this during a Jets game.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: Because I guess Buddy Ryan's defense was given up points, and I guess Gilbride let him know about it.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: And Buddy Ryan doesn't put up with that crap.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh he fought Mike Ditka.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: Do you think he's not gonna like fight like Kevin Gil?
41:28
SPEAKER_01: Like Gilbright's definitely you know a step step down in class for Buddy Ryan there.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: If he's gonna like pick a fight with like ex NFL tight end and generally tough guy Mike Ditka, I don't think Gilbride's gonna be uh that big of a problem.
41:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was that was bizarre to see the offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator getting into a fist fight on national television.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: But Gilbride has been like the things I've read about, you know, he does have a little bit of an attitude and stuff, but he's a good offensive coordinator, and he's had success before.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: It's not like Ray Sherman, where he didn't really have success, was thrown in the deep.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: This guy's had success.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: He's dealt with personalities, he knows what he's doing.
42:07
SPEAKER_01: So, but now Cornell has had Cordell has now had three offensive coordinators in three seasons.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: And the Steelers thought off strong beating Cleveland.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh the new Browns, that was their first game back.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: It was 43 to nothing.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: The new Browns were pretty horrible, have been horrible for a long time since then.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: Um Cordell had a TD passing, a TD rushing, and no interceptions.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: So um they had a pretty solid opening, but like I said, Cleveland was a really bad team that year.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: Um Cordell had a three-interception game against a decent Seattle team.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: I remember that because Seattle, like, in the defense, it definitely fallen off.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: I just remember the the announcers, I don't know, it was Randy Cosgrove or something, just gloating.
42:50
SPEAKER_01: It's like the home field advantage is over, and like just like so excited that Seattle was blowing like the Steelers out.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: It was like, but Cordell had a pretty bad game, and the defense wasn't that great either.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: Um Cordell had a decent game against the Bills with two touchdowns and interception, but he got outplayed by uh Doug Flutie.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: Um once again, they're five and three heading into week ten.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: And um then they they lose to Cleveland.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: It was really bad that year, and it was 16 to 15.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: Cordell threw in two interceptions, and this kind of like started a really bad losing streak, and they lost seven of their last eight games, and they went six and ten, which is actually I think a worse record than the year before.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: And they missed the playoffs for the second year row, second year in a row.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: Cordell gets benched in week 11 after the Tennessee game.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: Um he got a after he got a safety for intentional grounding.
43:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh Tomzak finished out the season, but doesn't really play that great, and it's obvious the Steelers need to find another quarterback.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: Stewart, this is probably his worst season as a quarterback, only 14 1,464 yards passing, six touchdowns and ten interceptions, another year when With more interceptions than touchdowns.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: He only has two rushing touchdowns and four fumbles.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: So once again, the intercept the turnovers are just way up there.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: Although, you know, the passing yards are down.
44:11
SPEAKER_01: He didn't start the whole season.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: Like you said, the Tom Zach finished out the year.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: So they go into the 2000 season, and we covered this in a podcast extensively.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: But this is the first time in Stewart, not the first, but one of the few times he's had uh a coordinator back to back.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: They keep Gilbride.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: Um the front office finally settled.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: Kevin Colbert is hired, Donahoe is let go, so that kind of stabilizes the team a little.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: And they switch agent, they switch strategies to like signing free agents instead of not signing free agents.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: Umzack's contract, he actually wasn't cut or anything.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: He just they just didn't renew his contract.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: And after that, I mean Tom Zack was like what a 15, 16 year veteran.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: So he just retired.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: He he he did play one more year with the Lions, but I think he got hurt either in the preseason and he never actually played for them.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: I think he signed with them and never actually played for them.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if he came back.
45:06
SPEAKER_01: Did he come back and retire a Steeler?
45:08
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe he came back and retired a bear.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: He might have retired a bear.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: Because he probably didn't because he retired a bear because he won a Super Bowl with them.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: But um Cordell, um, he he got benched to start the season and uh he was removed from being a starter.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: Um there's there's kind of confusion, you know, whether he's a receiver or a quarterback.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: He's kind of like so not allowed in the quarterback's room.
45:31
SPEAKER_01: Is he a receiver?
45:32
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, he's kind of like in a bad place just on the team.
45:35
SPEAKER_01: They're not sure what they're gonna do with him.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers start the season 0-3.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: They lose to Cleveland on a really bad sack that Kent Graham takes.
45:43
SPEAKER_01: Once again, we covered that a little more in another podcast.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, but Cordell fills in for the injured benched Kent Graham.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: It was an injury slash benching.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: He was hurt, but like we've seen enough of Kent Graham.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: Your knee hurts.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: No, actually, I'm okay.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: No, your knee hurts.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Are you too sure your knee hurt?
46:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: I think your knee hurts.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: For the love of everybody, please don't play anymore.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:07
SPEAKER_01: Um but Cordell kind of does respectable the next game.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: And he only he throws one interception, no touchdowns, but they only ask him to throw 16 passes.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: So they kind of go back to the formula of we're gonna run the ball and just have Cordell kind of be game manager.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: So we kind of go into the game manager part of Cordell's career here.
46:25
SPEAKER_01: He ends up starting uh 11 games.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: Um they have their defense is getting better, and Cordell just has to play his role.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: Um that game against the Raiders that year, one of the last games at Three River Stadium, he has a great game, picks up a fumble and runs for a big first down.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: Um they have some breaks go against them as a team, especially the Philly game where they had a call that didn't get the call, um, that they lost.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: Um but like on a but like unlike other years, is they actually finished the year on a winning note, going 9-7 and missing the playoffs, but they had finished the season strong instead of you know the other years where they had seemed to lose all the games at the end.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: Um Cordell had a much better year, um, 1,860 yards passing.
47:13
SPEAKER_01: He had 11 touchdowns and eight interceptions with you know seven TDs, so he had 18 and 16.
47:20
SPEAKER_01: So he's actually ahead.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: The first time in a couple years he's been ahead of the, you know, and I I think that's a big thing in a quarterback.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: It's almost like pitchers, it's strikeouts to walks, quarterbacks, it's definitely touchdowns to turnovers if you're gonna include their rushing stats.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: And and in his case, I think, I mean, now you know, if you're asking about Tom Brady, who cares about Tom Brady or Dan Marina's rushing stats, you know.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, those guys, that isn't what they do.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: But for this type of quarterback, you I think you have to include that.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: It's uh you know, I like you said, Steve, we covered that episode extensively, or we covered that season extensively on another episode.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: But um I one thing that I think was shocking was I don't know a lot of people didn't r really even expect Cordell to be like still with the team that season.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: Like everybody's like, okay, that's the end of the Cordell Stewart experiment, let's move on.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: We signed Kent Graham, nobody was real happy about that, but nobody thought you know Cordell would be anywhere in the picture at all, and now he's like s sort of back.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: Not and not to the extent he had been three years earlier, but he I think heading into that next season, he was sort of the presumed starter, I believe.
48:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
48:29
SPEAKER_01: As you see, Kevin Go Bride did get fired.
48:32
SPEAKER_01: He actually did get fired at the end of the season.
48:34
SPEAKER_01: And they promoted a guy, Mike Mallarke, who's actually became a head coach and pretty successful, you know, I I think as an offensive coordinator, maybe more than a head coach.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: But um, he had been their like a tight ends coach or something like that.
48:49
SPEAKER_01: And um they signed uh in the offseason, they signed Tommy Maddox, the XFL MVP, and they drafted T Martin over Tom Brady for the more infamous things that happened.
49:00
SPEAKER_01: Um Stewart is on now as fifth offensive coordinator in six seasons.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: Um Cordell starts the season really bad.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: He throws two interceptions and a loss to Jacksonville.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: Seems like when we open up against Jacksonville, we always lose.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: Um they have it, they have an unexpected bye week.
49:19
SPEAKER_01: And it kind of reset the season as 9-11 had happened.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: Um but then they got back on track versus Buffalo.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: They won 20-3.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, I remember the week 11 game, they beat Tennessee, and Cordell had a pretty good game running and passing.
49:34
SPEAKER_01: And Tennessee had always been one of those teams we hadn't been able to beat in recent years.
49:38
SPEAKER_01: And they won 34-24.
49:40
SPEAKER_01: And Cordell had a great game.
49:42
SPEAKER_01: 254 yards passing and two touchdowns.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: And he had a nice long 55, 54-yard rushing.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: So he had uh one run was a 48-yard run, actually, but he he had a nice game rushing and passing.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh he has a great 90-yard pass to Bobby Shaw against Baltimore in week 14.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: That kind of locked up the win.
50:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, but once again, they kind of went back to this formula run the ball, run the ball.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: Even that Bobby Shaw was pretty obvious that Baltimore was selling out against the run, and they threw on an early down and caught Baltimore, you know, in a bad defense.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh week 16, he has a pretty bad performance, and the defense gets exposed.
50:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, this is kind of like a precursor is what happens next season is Dick LeBose, offensive coordinator, like figures out they'll just let John Kitna throw the ball a bunch, and they really did have a bad game.
50:33
SPEAKER_01: And I remember the field was really bad in Cincinnati.
50:35
SPEAKER_01: They didn't have turf yet, they tried to go with regular like grass, and like everybody was falling all over the place.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: And they had just they got they gave up a ton of points that game.
50:45
SPEAKER_01: But the Steelers had finished the season at 13-3.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: I think that was the best record by a Bill Cower team to that point in his career.
50:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was the old strategy of strong defense in a running game.
50:58
SPEAKER_01: And they make the playoffs for the first time in three seasons.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: They haven't made the playoffs.
51:03
SPEAKER_01: And uh Stewart actually has a really successful year, and he makes his first pro bowl, and he gets voted team MVP.
51:09
SPEAKER_01: He and this is probably, I would argue, his best year as a pro.
51:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, he has 3,109 yards passing, he has 14 touchdowns, he still throws 11 interceptions, but he has five touchdowns, so he's 19, and he does have 11 fumbles.
51:24
SPEAKER_01: But that was probably even though his you know turnovers are a little high, I think that was definitely his best year of his career just through the passing yards and you know, even the passing TDs.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: He actually finished fourth in the league MVP voting that year.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: It was it was Kurt Warner and Marshall Fox.
51:42
SPEAKER_00: But he made a Pro Bowl too, yeah.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: It was Kurt Warner and Marshall Falk Fall Far, and then Cordell finished fourth in the MVP voting.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: So he he actually got votes for the not only the MVP of the Steelers, the MVP of the entire league.
51:54
SPEAKER_00: That's how good of a season he had that year.
51:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: And um I remember they got the they of course they had home field advantage at the playoffs, they get a bye.
52:03
SPEAKER_01: And then uh in a big game against the rival Rays, like I remember Bettis have been kind of hurt the last half of that season, and they tried to give him like an injection and it got all messed up, so they had to start Zaraway.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: But it was no problem because Dan Kreider crushed Ray Lewis, and I'm sure a Ray Lewis highlight they'll show, you know, when he goes into the Hall of Fame.
52:21
SPEAKER_01: Um when he got blocked from you know, a guy from New Hampshire blocked him.
52:27
SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, they they they just totally they they beat the Ravens pretty convincingly, but the Bravens had Elvis Gerbach as their quarterback, so they really didn't have a good quarterback.
52:39
SPEAKER_01: So, and Cordell didn't have to do much.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: So the next week they played the Patriots in the championship game.
52:45
SPEAKER_01: And I remember I've watched this game painfully as much a couple times before.
52:50
SPEAKER_01: Even in the interviews, they Charlie Weiss said, we're gonna throw the ball 50 times against, you know, so they had watched the Cincinnati game and that was their strategy, and they had Brady.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: And the only reason they ended up not doing that is because Brady got hurt early in the game.
53:02
SPEAKER_01: Lee Flowers tackled him and his ankle got hurt.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: So the Steelers actually got a really big break there because if they would have thrown, they probably would have scored 30 or 40 points.
53:12
SPEAKER_01: But Stewart has an absolutely horrendous game.
53:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, he throws three interceptions, he lost two fumbles.
53:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the special teams gave up a touchdown, but he threw two interceptions with the game on the line.
53:24
SPEAKER_01: And this is once again, you know, late in the game.
53:26
SPEAKER_01: They're playing the same defense they've been playing, and he just couldn't be accurate or see the field well enough to complete enough passes to win the game.
53:35
SPEAKER_01: And it was just it that was the game where I knew, like I I was always a big Cordell fan, and like kind of like you know, Cordell defender.
53:44
SPEAKER_01: I fought in that game, I was like, there's no defending.
53:46
SPEAKER_01: This guy's not a good NFL quarterback.
53:49
SPEAKER_01: He's mediocre at best, and you're not going to win a Super Bowl with this guy.
53:52
SPEAKER_01: I knew at that point they were not going to win a Super Bowl with him at quarterback.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: So the Patriots said after the game they played one type of defense the whole game.
54:01
SPEAKER_01: So and that's kind of on Cordell, you gotta be able to make an adjustment and you know.
54:06
SPEAKER_01: But that that was his limitations, I guess.
54:09
SPEAKER_00: It was such a tough game because like the the like you said, the special teams there was that was a huge part of it.
54:16
SPEAKER_00: And the special teams was horrible that season.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: And uh and the and the Steelers give up a punt return and they have a field goal blocked for a touchdown.
54:28
SPEAKER_00: Like so they give up two touchdowns.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: Two of the three Patriots touchdowns came on special teams, which is unbelievable.
54:35
SPEAKER_00: But that all would happen by like the middle of the third quarter.
54:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they still had a chance to tie the game.
54:42
SPEAKER_00: And and by the beginning of the fourth quarter, by the by the beginning of the fourth quarter, it's twenty they'd come they'd scored touchdowns, it was twenty-one seventeen.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: So Cordell had the entire fourth quarter to score once and take the lead.
54:56
SPEAKER_01: And it was bad interception.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't unlucky.
54:59
SPEAKER_01: It was just he threw it right to the guy.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: It was just it was ugly.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like anybody not I mean, they caught the ball, which I guess is making a play, but it was like one of those ones where he just threw it right to the guy.
55:11
SPEAKER_00: So we talked we we when our Super Bowl thirty episode that we did, we talked about Neil O'Donnell really just wasn't a winner.
55:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, and there's some quarterbacks that are winners and some quarterbacks that aren't.
55:22
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know.
55:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh Cordell, like think about th I mean, think about any other situation.
55:29
SPEAKER_00: Think about the Super Bowl against the Cardinals when Kurt Warner throws the interception into Dames Harrison.
55:35
SPEAKER_00: Does he does he forward or does he come back and give them the lead later?
55:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
55:39
SPEAKER_00: Right?
55:39
SPEAKER_00: Think about the the the Kansas City in the Super Bowl against San Francisco.
55:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, they're down, Mahomes is playing a terrible game.
55:45
SPEAKER_00: Does he fold or does he come back and take the lead?
55:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's what they needed from Cordell.
55:50
SPEAKER_00: And and like you said, Steve, he he just couldn't do it.
55:53
SPEAKER_01: No, he was a game.
55:54
SPEAKER_01: We'll get into that.
55:56
SPEAKER_01: So going to 2002, for some reason, like Cowers still believes in Cordell.
56:00
SPEAKER_01: I guess they really don't have anybody they believe in on the roster.
56:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, they were 13 and 3.
56:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it you like they weren't going to make a change of quarterback after going 13-3.
56:08
SPEAKER_01: I guess winning covers up a lot of faults.
56:10
SPEAKER_01: It covered up the defense being not able to start the pass, stop the pass.
56:13
SPEAKER_01: In 2002, we kind of covered in one of our earlier podcasts, it was the Tommy Maddox season.
56:19
SPEAKER_01: Um Cordell is still the starter.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: They lose the first two games, and basically the Patriots and the Raiders do what the Bengals did the year before and what they had wanted to do in the championship game, and they just pass the ball, and Cordell just the offense can't get going, and they need more offense because the defense just can't stop the pass.
56:38
SPEAKER_01: Um Cordell's throwing a lot of interceptions.
56:41
SPEAKER_01: Um the last straw for, and this was really the end of Cordell's career in Pittsburgh, was uh, at least as a starter, uh at 0-2 losing to Cleveland, who was still really wasn't that good.
56:53
SPEAKER_01: Um Cordell throws in the double coverage and um he gets benched, and the Cordell Stewart basically is over, and Tommy Maddox comes in and saves the game in the season.
57:02
SPEAKER_01: I guess Cleveland wasn't horrible.
57:04
SPEAKER_01: They would make the playoffs that year, but still, I mean, like you said, Cordell just, you know, he did start two games against Cincinnati and Jacksonville, which they both won.
57:13
SPEAKER_00: When Maddox was hurt.
57:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:16
SPEAKER_01: So he did kind of like, you know, right the ship a little bit.
57:20
SPEAKER_01: But once again, I think it was more game manager stuff.
57:23
SPEAKER_01: Um the aftermath was um Stewart, you know, I didn't if he got cut or released or uh they just let him go.
57:33
SPEAKER_01: He went to the Bears and he started a couple games before being benched for Chris Chandler, and then he came back and they benched him again for Rich Grossman, and then he never started another game at quarterback in the NFL.
57:45
SPEAKER_01: Um he signed with Baltimore in 2004.
57:48
SPEAKER_01: He had to punt one game against the Jets because the Baltimore's punter got hurt.
57:53
SPEAKER_01: And he actually got special teams player of the week for his efforts.
57:56
SPEAKER_01: So um 2005, he was backup, he played in one game, and he he was out of the league the next year, he got cut by the Ravens.
58:05
SPEAKER_01: So 2005 was probably the official end of his career.
58:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, from 2001, I guess that was four years, he still hung around as a backup for a couple more years.
58:14
SPEAKER_01: In 2012, Stewart came back to the Steelers, a nice end to his career.
58:18
SPEAKER_01: He signed with the Steelers for one day to do the official retire.
58:22
SPEAKER_01: He retired as a Pittsburgh Steeler.
58:24
SPEAKER_01: So, and um his quote was uh that's where it all started, that's where my success was, and this is some closure and I that I wanted to have and I needed to have with my career.
58:36
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, after all the tough feelings and stuff, and we'll get into that more, you know, what Cordell kind of made up with the fans, and I think the fans just still I still like Cordell.
58:48
SPEAKER_01: And I I you know I think he he has his place in Steeler history, and he was definitely better than some, but not as good as others, and you know, that's just kind of where he fit in.
58:59
SPEAKER_01: So legacy, what went wrong?
59:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's kind of standard reasons that when I was researching, like there's the standard, and I kind of remember that.
59:08
SPEAKER_01: Like the first one is he he had too many offensive coordinators in his eight-year career.
59:14
SPEAKER_01: He had six different coordinators by comparison.
59:16
SPEAKER_01: Ben has only had four in a 15-year career.
59:19
SPEAKER_01: So you could say Cordell had to learn a new offense every year.
59:23
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
59:23
SPEAKER_01: A lot of other quarterbacks have had to do that.
59:26
SPEAKER_01: Randall Cunningham had to do it at the end of his career and had a great year.
59:30
SPEAKER_01: So I don't quite buy that.
59:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean there is something to continuity, but I mean, if you're a good quarterback, I think you can adjust.
59:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, the Steelers, kind of in his prime years, that nine after the 98 season to 2001, like they were in this transition with the front office, and the team was going from the Super Bowl years to the next generation.
59:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, and it like I said, it took a couple years for that talent and with the front office finally being settled.
59:59
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, yeah, you could say that, but great quarterbacks have been able to cover up for that.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_01: Like Merino, I mean, covered for Don Shulin, the Dolphins being an absolute garbage organization for how many years?
1:00:13
SPEAKER_01: And Ben's even carried the Steelers through years where they've had to rebuild.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, if you have a great quarterback, you know, you you can kind of overcome that.
1:00:23
SPEAKER_00: That's a good point.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the Steelers the Steelers went from the 2000s team that had made three Super Bowls to some eight and eight teams, and then they sort of rebounded and rebuilt with new players.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: But but like you said, it took two or three seasons to get back there.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_01: But it's like they probably if it wasn't for Ben, they probably win like four or five games that you're gonna go.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_01: And um um we can compare it to other quarterbacks like we were doing earlier.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_01: Um I picked Donovan McNabb, who really maybe isn't the greatest, but he just he played at the same time.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_01: That's kind of why I picked him because the rules were similar still.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_01: But he did have Andy Reid, who's considered very good coordinator and kind of you know very creative on offense.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize Donovan McNabb had this good of an NFL career.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_01: He had 37,000 yards passing, 234 touchdowns, and only 117 interceptions, which isn't three to one, but that's I think that's pretty solid.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_01: Andy had 28 rushing touchdowns, which I I don't know.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_01: Which as we'll compare.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_01: Um Michael Vick was another guy we'd mentioned.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_01: He actually had 22,000 passing yards and 133 touchdowns with 88 interceptions.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_01: He did, like I think Vick kind of falls into the he threw probably a little too many interceptions, but he did have he actually had 36 rushing touchdowns, which is kind of surprising that he didn't have more than McNabb, because I think Mikel Vick was a much better, you know, threat as a running quarterback.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_01: He's probably the greatest dual threat quarterback of all time.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, if you want to look all time, if you look at the stats, and I don't know, it's tough to say, but I guess Fran Tarkington, he has 47,000 yards passing and 342 touchdowns passing and 32 rushing touchdowns.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_01: So I guess Fran Tarkington is probably a little better than Vic, at least passing wise, and he was had as you know pretty comparable rushing stats as Vic.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_01: Steve Young, too, people forget like Steve Young early in his career was more of a running threat, and he has 33,000 pass yards and 232 touchdowns, and 43 rushing touchdowns.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_01: So actually Steve Young has more rushing touchdowns for his career than Michael Vick, which is odd.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, some of it's on longevity, too.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Michael Vick also had to be.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_01: Missed a couple years and then didn't wasn't I mean I guess San Francisco at the end wasn't the greatest team.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_00: No, but Steve Young didn't go to prison for a bunch of years in the middle of his career.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_01: Well, um Well, he did go to Tampa Bay for a while, and that's kind of like prison.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, and he was and he was the backup to Joe Montana.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you're right.
1:03:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, everybody had different circumstances.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think all four of the guys you mentioned, I I don't think you can argue that they all didn't have really good success.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, a couple of those guys are in the Hall of Fame.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know if McNav or Vick were ever be, but I don't see why not with McNabb.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_01: Like, I just really like when I looked at him, I I never thought much.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_01: I always thought he was kind of overrated.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_01: I looked at his stats, I was like, well, I guess losing all those champions and not winning, not doing great in the Super Bowl, you know, not not getting like they everybody always criticizes now is it him or the coach for not running in the hurry up in that Super Bowl against the Patriots, you know.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, i he yeah, I think you're right.
1:03:39
SPEAKER_00: I think if he wins just one Super Bowl.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_00: One Super Bowl, I think he he maybe has a different um narrative to his career.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_00: But but all four of those guys definitely were similar quarterbacks, and I think you could definitely say they all had way more long-term success than Cordell had.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_00: If you if you stack up Cordell's 97 season or 2001 season against any of those guys, it looks really good.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_00: But if you take all the stuff in between, it's not so good.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we'll get in.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_01: I and I also put in some of the Steelers all-time.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_01: Um Rothesberger, as of right now, has 56,000 yards passing and 363 touchdowns and 191 interceptions.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what his rushing touchdowns is.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't really care because he's not a running quarterback.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh Terry Bradshaw had had uh by comparison 26,000 yards passing.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_01: And Terry's kind of weird.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_01: Like I had 212 touchdowns with 210 interceptions.
1:04:35
SPEAKER_01: Terry's another one that threw too many interceptions.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_01: Because like you look at Ben, that's uh almost two and a half, three to one.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_01: Like Ben's like right where he should be.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_01: Whereas Terry's like, that's 200 interceptions, that's too many, you know, for me.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_01: But he won four Super Bowls, and when it counted in the big games, Terry was clutch, man.
1:04:54
SPEAKER_01: You can't sometimes it's not always festivals.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_01: It's when you throw them, too.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_01: Um Neil O'Donnell, speaking of when you throw your interceptions, uh great lead in there.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_01: And it's five years, he had 12,000, and this is just with the Steelers.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_01: I didn't do his career stats.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_01: He did 12, 12,000 passing yards, 68 touchdowns, and 39 interceptions.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_01: Pretty low in the interceptions, but he would he would definitely take a sack.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_01: He definitely was not in any way, shape, form, could be confused with being mobile at all.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_01: Or being a gunslinger and just throwing the ball anyway, except in the biggest game of his life.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_01: Um now Cordell's stats uh were 14,000 passing yards.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_01: He had 77 touchdowns passing, but he had 84 interceptions.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_01: So he threw more interceptions than touchdowns, and he did rush for 28 touchdowns.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, if you throw in the rushing touchdowns, he does then kind of go above his turn.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_01: I didn't look up his fumbles.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean Yeah, it's it's it it's tough to say.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: Like and I would say this like, you know, another reason maybe, you know, racism, you know, was people and rumors, like Cordell's there was always rumors about his sexuality.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_01: Was that just like stealth racism?
1:06:12
SPEAKER_01: You didn't want to sound like a racist, so you would say, Oh, he's you know, whate you know.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_01: The people would call him gay and it was always, oh, my second brother's cousin do some do this or that, and it was always like stupid rumors.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, and and it's it's hard and and you you you you have it in the notes here, like it's tough to read people's minds, like you don't know what their where their motivation's always coming from.
1:06:33
SPEAKER_00: But some of the stuff that was directed at Cordell was just so vicious and angry, and I don't know.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_00: I like people uh we weren't we were too young to remember the the anger that was directed at Bradshaw.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_00: But a lot of people really hated Bradshaw too for a while.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, people didn't like O'Donnell, but it was never to that level.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_01: It was just like, oh, he threw those interceptions.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_01: Which I can understand, you know, that's a fan, and you know I I think that's more of a fair criticism than this.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_01: This is just like somebody just made this up.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_01: And O'Donnell It's literally somebody just made this up as well.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_00: And O'Donnell's career arc with the Steelers wasn't the same as any of those other guys.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_00: Like O'Donnell sort of like was a game manager, and then he like progressively got better every season until he threw those interceptions in the Super Bowl, then he didn't stick around long enough to he left after that.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_00: So I I don't know if there was a whole arc there.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Ben's had a couple ups and downs in his career, and there's been viciousness thrown his way, but boy, Cordell.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think Ben's though, like it isn't like stuff people made stuff out of Hulk.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_01: Although I've heard like weird rumors about Ben, too.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but the Cordell thing was much more prominent.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_01: And like you said, everybody was sure because they had a source inside the Whereas like Ben, it's like it's you can't, you know, Ben, like the the couple incidents is there's been some couple well publicized incidents.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_01: Then there's been some other rumored incidents, but but it's like, well, if these other incidents and that definitely happened, you know, could have this, you know.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_00: The rumors about his sexuality seemed to start when he cried on the sidelines.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_00: Which which seemed like almost too convenient.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_00: Like, well, he's crying on the sidelines, so that means he's not a real man.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_00: Or I who knows where that came from.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_00: But it's it is hard to ignore race when you think about the just like I said, the viciousness of some of the things were said about him.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_00: And and like you said, it who knows what people were really thinking, but boy, it's hard to it's hard to not at least factor that in.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_01: And uh and Bill Cower went through it too.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh just the Cordell wasn't the only person that this was directed at.
1:08:35
SPEAKER_01: Um Kay Cower, his late wife, actually addressed it.
1:08:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, and we'll post that quote up on the website of from Kay about that.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_01: Um and here's an ironic thing.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_01: In October 2017, uh Cordell actually won a three million dollar default judgment in Atlanta against uh a YouTuber, I guess it was some guy on the internet, named Andrew Caldwell, who claimed he had sexual encounter with Stewart, and Stewart had given him expensive gifts.
1:09:02
SPEAKER_01: Stewart denied these claims.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_01: Caldwell later recanted the claim and denied that it had ever happened.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_01: And he actually got Courtell actually got a judgment against this guy for three million dollars in court.
1:09:14
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, there you you know, so it it just I don't know why it just keeps dogging him like this and like people just making it up, obviously.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_01: And it literally lost a court case.
1:09:27
SPEAKER_01: You've lost three million dollars over this.
1:09:29
SPEAKER_01: I hope it was worth getting your five minutes of fame on YouTube.
1:09:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:09:33
SPEAKER_01: And that was after 2017, he hadn't played football in five years.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, who who would even care at that point?
1:09:41
SPEAKER_00: I yeah, I I don't know.
1:09:43
SPEAKER_00: It was just you're right, it was a lot of anger.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_00: People were angry at Cower.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_00: Then there was people that said Cower had an affair with the secretary, and that's what the K Cower quotes are about.
1:09:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, I had also the other rumor was that Cower was sleeping with Cordell's sister or something.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_00: That's why I never heard that.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_00: That's why he kept starting him, was because uh again, so many ridiculous rumors, but but it was i i it only took one season.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_00: Like usually you'd think it would take a whole bunch of bad seasons.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_00: He was in the AFC championship game in 97, and by like the next calendar year, he was, you know, have like in all these terrible off-the-field situations and hated.
1:10:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it it the town really, really turned on him quick.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which was unfortunate.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_01: It was.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't over just like play on the field either.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_01: It was just like these stupid little like just made-up rumor.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_01: That's unfair.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_01: That's unfair to him.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_01: It was unfair to him.
1:10:37
SPEAKER_01: It really was.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, there was there were other things happening with the team at that time.
1:10:41
SPEAKER_00: It they just I think people got so used to the early success of the Coward teams and expected to be in the playoffs every year.
1:10:48
SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't just Cordell, it was it was a lot of other things happening with the front office and everything else that you mentioned.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't all his fault.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_00: Um certainly he he it was a bunch of his fault, but it wasn't all his fault.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and in my opinion, I think I I kind of compare Cordell to like Tim Tebow.
1:11:05
SPEAKER_01: He he's like a decent quarterback in a certain type of offense, but he just wasn't like a good enough at that position to really carry you to a championship.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_01: Um Stewart's bigger problems were he wasn't he had a strong arm, but he wasn't accurate, and he for some reason he didn't see the field well, I don't think.
1:11:25
SPEAKER_01: Like I think that's why he had so much trouble against reading the defense.
1:11:29
SPEAKER_01: Um Kevin Gilbride, I remember this interview, said to him that the receivers could be the eyes of the offense.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_01: So in Gilbride's system, the receiver would have like two different routes, like go inside or outside, you know, and depending on where the defender would stand.
1:11:43
SPEAKER_01: Even Tom Brady said that if you read, oh, I I look at the defense, not what the receiver's doing.
1:11:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, Cordell could never quite comprehend that or just wasn't skilled at that.
1:11:54
SPEAKER_01: So he just never could understand how that got work.
1:11:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that's more on Cordell, because apparently Warren Moon and all the other quarterbacks, you know, Eli Manning, Kevin Gilbride went on to win two Super Bowls, Eli Manning could figure it out, Warren Moon could figure it out, you know.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_01: Good point.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_01: Um I think too, like Tim Tebow, like I always thought should have been a tight end.
1:12:18
SPEAKER_01: I think if Tim Tebow doesn't stick the quarterback, switches the tight end, he's Rob Gronkowski before Rob Gronkowski, and he probably makes the Hall of Fame as a tight end.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_01: Um Cordell had way too many turnovers as a quarterback, just through too many interceptions, and that's that's a sign of a bad, the mediocre quarterback.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh the rules were different.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_01: You could hit receivers and quarterbacks a lot more.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_01: Um that's why I didn't really compare him to like Lamar Jackson or Cam Newton, because like I don't know if you can.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's fair.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean that's that's fair because you're right, it's a different Lamar Jackson would probably be a closer analog, like, because they kind of ran but they ran like that like spread, and they didn't run the spread offense back then.
1:13:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, would would Cordell like have done well in, you know.
1:13:08
SPEAKER_01: I kind of cover that later.
1:13:09
SPEAKER_01: He's such a different quarterback than Bradshaw.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_01: It you know, him and O'Donnell, you know, and Bradshaw and Rothesburger, we'll we'll kind of rank them later.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_01: Um Cordell got lots of media hype, so I think that raised fans' expectations.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, and that probably, you know, unfairly led to him, you know, when people build you up, they love to tear you down.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_01: So that kind of happened to him.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_01: And Cordell and quarterbacks in general always get blamed for everything.
1:13:36
SPEAKER_01: They're like the goalie in hockey.
1:13:38
SPEAKER_01: Whether you win or lose, you always get more credit or you know, more blame than you probably should either way.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_00: That's a really good point, Steve.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_00: And and this was also like an era where um you had like like the freak athletes, like Bo Jackson.
1:13:52
SPEAKER_00: Remember how big Bo Jackson was for a while?
1:13:55
SPEAKER_00: Like he was in every commercial, he kids we all bought every Bo Jackson whatever he endorsed.
1:14:01
SPEAKER_00: And I think Cordell, like right out of the gate, they put him in that same category.
1:14:06
SPEAKER_00: Like he mentioned all the commercials and everything.
1:14:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:14:08
SPEAKER_00: And so, like you said, putting him on a pedestal and then watching him start faltering, it's like you said, it's the higher up you go, the harder the fall.
1:14:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:14:16
SPEAKER_01: Cordell was benched no less than three different times in his career.
1:14:19
SPEAKER_01: That can't be fun to go through.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh maybe, like I said, with all the rule changes and the new offenses, like I couldn't imagine him playing in like an Andy Reid offense.
1:14:29
SPEAKER_01: I wonder how like that would have worked out for him.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_01: Like the offense that like Kansas City or like Philadelphia ran.
1:14:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I mean, maybe he has the career McNabb ended up having, you know.
1:14:41
SPEAKER_00: That's a good that's a good point, too.
1:14:42
SPEAKER_00: We and we you talked about the the like the game manager style that Cower had.
1:14:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that Cower was not that that uh offense they had in '97, that was out of the box for Cower because he liked it.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think Chan Gailey was probably their best offensive coordinator that knew how to use him in that, you know, because you know, Malarkey, I think, ended up being a good coordinator and he got a lot out of Cordell, but you know, I think Chan Gailey was maybe a little bit of an edge.
1:15:10
SPEAKER_01: And you wonder what would happen if Gailey had st had stuck around.
1:15:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe, yeah.
1:15:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean Gailey had success in Dallas, and then Jerry Jones just, you know, if you don't win a Super Bowl every year.
1:15:19
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:15:20
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe, or maybe Cordell just got it becomes Cordell, you know.
1:15:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and gets him fire.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:15:27
SPEAKER_01: Um like I said, he he was kind of a good quarterback, not a great one.
1:15:31
SPEAKER_01: Um teams used to win with this formula, like before that, like the Mark Rippins, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jess Haw, Stettler, like all those like game manager types.
1:15:42
SPEAKER_01: But by the end of the 90s, I think that had kind of started, like, although Trent Dilfer was 2000, they kind of started to move away from that.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_01: You were going to more you needed like a competent, like even Nick Foles, it was really like the last journeyman.
1:15:57
SPEAKER_01: He put up great numbers in the playoffs in the Super Bowl.
1:16:00
SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of like I think Nick Foles is more like a Jim Plunkett, like who had like that a couple good years after he bounced around for a while.
1:16:07
SPEAKER_00: You can win a Super Bowl without a quarterback, but it's it's for sure the exception in the role.
1:16:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:16:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, here you go.
1:16:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't know if you agree or disagree with this.
1:16:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh the I would still rate Cordell as one of the top five quarterbacks in Steeler history.
1:16:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, and my top five would be Ben.
1:16:25
SPEAKER_01: I think Ben's will just I know Bradshaw has two more Super Bowls, but I think Ben has the better, just those fewer interceptions.
1:16:33
SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's just, I don't know.
1:16:34
SPEAKER_01: I think Ben's a little better than Bradshaw.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_01: Bradshaw's number two for sure.
1:16:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh Bobby Lane's number three because he's a Hall of Famer and he's Bobby Lane.
1:16:43
SPEAKER_01: He was pretty good.
1:16:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm gonna give Neil O'Donnell the slight edge over Stewart just because he went to a Super Bowl and Stewart could never get his teams to a Super Bowl.
1:16:52
SPEAKER_01: But that puts Stewart at five.
1:16:54
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, would you uh change your new buddy, uh put Bradshaw over?
1:16:58
SPEAKER_01: I know people have to put Brad Show over Rothesburg.
1:17:00
SPEAKER_01: That's not really the argument.
1:17:01
SPEAKER_01: Would you put Stewart any higher on that list since we're talking about Cordell?
1:17:04
SPEAKER_00: I think, yeah, I think I think that's a good place for him.
1:17:07
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not sure.
1:17:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I hate to say this, but I don't know who else you would put ahead of Stewart.
1:17:13
SPEAKER_00: Like after Mark Malone?
1:17:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's there's a pretty steep drop-off after Cordell.
1:17:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Tommy Maddox had that one really good season.
1:17:21
SPEAKER_00: I think in that season, Tommy Maddox really only had like five good games.
1:17:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but Bobby Burster had a few good games.
1:17:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh Tomzak.
1:17:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:17:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:17:33
SPEAKER_00: But but no, I I put Cordell there.
1:17:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he he almost won the league MVP once.
1:17:37
SPEAKER_00: He he had two two seasons where he he led the team to the AFC Championship game and uh a couple of Pro Bowl appearances.
1:17:44
SPEAKER_00: Like he he I think he belongs in the top five for sure.
1:17:47
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, it's it's a mixed bag for him.
1:17:50
SPEAKER_01: He is a mixed, it's a mixed, I think that's his biggest, I guess he is it's mixed.
1:17:53
SPEAKER_01: And I think people have come around and like as you know you know, as the years go by, that's why they wait five years to put people in the hall of fame because it gives you more perspective as you get a couple years on his career.
1:18:05
SPEAKER_01: His perspective is is he was a good quarterback and he got in the AFC championship game, but that's where his limitations, like the defenses get pretty good in the championship round in the Super Bowl, and he that's where he kind of topped out at for whatever reason, you know.
1:18:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he wasn't he didn't have that clutch.
1:18:23
SPEAKER_01: No, not not in the playoffs.
1:18:25
SPEAKER_01: Not in the playoffs, yeah.
1:18:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:18:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:18:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:29
SPEAKER_00: It's it's I I yeah, I put him in the top five.
1:18:32
SPEAKER_00: And I I think, like you said, years later I think we can look back and remember there was good there was bad, but there was also good.
1:18:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, I think I think he was a lot of fun to watch.
1:18:41
SPEAKER_00: He was, he was entertaining.
1:18:42
SPEAKER_00: And and again, Pittsburgh, we hadn't really had a good quarterback for years and years.
1:18:47
SPEAKER_00: And and for a while, you know, he was he was one of the best quarterbacks in the league.
1:18:51
SPEAKER_00: It was a very short lived, but it was exciting at the time, and you know, it's a shame that it didn't work out better for him and for the Steelers.
1:18:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I guess it's hard to believe he only made one Pro Bowl, but I mean that was only that one season.
1:19:03
SPEAKER_01: And it was such a weird one-off season like that 2001.
1:19:06
SPEAKER_01: Like it just kind of came out of nowhere.
1:19:08
SPEAKER_01: Like nobody expected Cordell to have that great of a season that year.
1:19:12
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:19:12
SPEAKER_01: And you know.
1:19:13
SPEAKER_01: I just remember on ESPN they like, you know, he sold his soul to like Memistophosleys or something for the, you know, made some deal with the devil to Well, and amazingly, by the third game of the next season, he's benched again.
1:19:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:19:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as quickly as it happened, it was over, yeah.
1:19:29
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that a I mean, it's just amazing.
1:19:31
SPEAKER_00: He goes from top of the rod to bench to top of the rod to bench to, you know, on the Bears at that point.
1:19:38
SPEAKER_00: But it's it's like, man, I I can't think of any other quarterback, even on another team that had that kind of career trajectory, you know, where they were just that good and then on and then a backup and then that good, and you know, it just all with the same team, too.
1:19:53
SPEAKER_00: You yeah.
1:19:54
SPEAKER_00: See other quarterbacks maybe rejuvenate their careers later with some other team, but it was a really wild, crazy ride for him, but it was fun while it was definitely fun while he was playing good, that's for sure.
1:20:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I like I said, I was always a Cordell fan, and um but I think time gives you perspective, and um he was a good player, but not a great player.
1:20:13
SPEAKER_01: I I wish they could have won a pulled out a Super Bowl, but then maybe we would overrate him a little.
1:20:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
1:20:19
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
1:20:20
SPEAKER_01: The time always gives you a little better perspective.
1:20:22
SPEAKER_01: Um if you agree or disagree with us, feel free to uh visit us on Twitter or Facebook and at our website Pittsburgh.com.
1:20:32
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
1:20:33
SPEAKER_01: And I I'm sure this is uh pretty good uh controversial subject.
1:20:37
SPEAKER_01: Um always starts to compensate and out twenty.