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Punch-Drunk Love (2002) with Portia Barnett-Herrin · Left of the Projector

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Track 1: Back again with another film discussion from the left. You can support the show
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Track 1: at leftwithobjector.com.
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Track 1: The year was 2002.
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Track 1: CDs remained the dominant form of music, making up 90% of the market.
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Track 1: The PlayStation 2 was released. The economy in the United States and abroad
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Track 1: was in flux due to the aftermath of 9-11 and subsequent wars in the Middle East.
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Track 1: This same year, director Paul Thomas Anderson releases the film up for discussion
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Track 1: today, Punch Drunk Love. after a brief three-year hiatus since his previous film, Magnolia.
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Track 1: Rather than making a three-hour film, which was unfairly compared to Shortcuts,
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Track 1: he made a 95-minute film starring Adam Sandler, Emily Watson,
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Track 1: and Philip Seymour Hoffman.
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Track 1: With me to discuss this artful masterpiece is writer-director Portia.
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Track 1: Thank you for being here today.
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Track 2: My pleasure. Thank you.
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Track 1: Yes, of course. And I guess before we maybe talk about why you selected this,
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Track 1: I don't know if you want to, fully up to you, if you want to share kind of any
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Track 1: of your work or anything that people could find you online or, you know, any of those.
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Track 2: I'm a writer director and I also
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Track 2: coach other creatives and so that actually the easiest place to find me is either
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Track 2: on threads which is how we connected or my business is called new woo um n-e-w-w-o-o
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Track 2: dot uk and that's where all the coaching stuff runs through perfect.
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Track 1: And we'll put a link in the thing below where everyone can can check that out
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Track 1: but we yeah we said we We connected on threads and then I reached out and I
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Track 1: sent you a list of films, but I think I had it.
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Track 1: So this is actually the first Paul Thomas Anderson film I've covered,
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Track 1: which is kind of hard to believe.
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Track 1: No one has chosen one, but you chose pretty quickly to do this film, Prunch Drunk Love.
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Track 1: So I'm curious what your maybe relationship with this film and then maybe like
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Track 1: tendentially the like Adam Sandler, Paul Thomas Anderson. And I know Adam Sandler
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Track 1: is not really a feature amongst his films, but he's in this one.
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Track 2: Yes, he certainly is. I can't remember when I first saw this film.
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Track 2: I feel like it was definitely a few years after it came out.
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Track 2: I hadn't loved Magnolia. I need to watch it again. But it hadn't,
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Track 2: like, I hadn't adored it, basically.
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Track 2: And I think it did divide audiences for the most part.
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Track 2: But I adore this movie and I loved it when I watched it for the first time and
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Track 2: I've watched it maybe five or six times since.
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Track 2: I find it highly watchable and I love PTA's work, but watchable isn't always
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Track 2: a word I could use to describe his movies.
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Track 2: Some are much more accessible than others.
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Track 2: But there's something really, really simple about this.
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Track 2: And also, I love rom-coms.
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Track 2: I'm fascinated by it as a genre. And I recognize rom-coms as something that
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Track 2: starts with screwball comedy, which is also something I love.
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Track 2: And I think that this sits in that genre, but also obviously subverts a lot
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Track 2: of the expectations of it.
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Track 2: And I think it's a profoundly elegant piece of work. as well as actually being quite funny.
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Track 1: Yes. Well, I mean, we'll certainly talk about some of the throwing bits of sort
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Track 1: of, I won't call them trivia, like notes about the film.
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Track 1: But one of the things I wanted to mention before I maybe kind of give my brief
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Track 1: history on the film, too, is I want to shout out another podcast who's been
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Track 1: on this podcast, I've been on theirs, called Altmania.
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Track 1: And they did an entire series on every film from Paul Thomas Anderson, including this one.
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Track 1: And they have they go deeper into like
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Track 1: his work and sort of the history and so i'm not gonna we're probably not
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Track 1: gonna do as much of that today so i would definitely recommend anyone
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Track 1: to check out that podcast and that episode in particular
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Track 1: is uh is quite good so i just wanted to mention
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Track 1: that here and then for me too i didn't see this movie until
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Track 1: at least four or five years after it
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Track 1: came out and i remember not loving it
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Track 1: but not like thinking it was you know a bad film and
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Track 1: maybe just my place the time when i watched it sort
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Track 1: of my how i was watching film at
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Track 1: the time and i also just watched re-watched
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Track 1: uh um magnolia about
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Track 1: a week ago and i liked it a lot more than i had remembered
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Track 1: liking it so it is worth i would recommend going back and
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Track 1: checking it out again i think it's it's maybe not as
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Track 1: accessible and watchable you know three hours and five minutes versus.
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Track 1: This is 95 minutes and i just think this film
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Track 1: is like a i think i put in the notes it's like kind of a work of
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Track 1: art so much different than any of his three
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Track 1: previous films like boogie nights heart eight magnolia all were
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Track 1: more personal and more you know somewhat
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Track 1: historical boogie nights you know has his historical kind of play in it or this
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Track 1: is just like a subversive rom-com that has some of the most beautiful cinematography
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Track 1: and music and acting performances and having people say like oh adam sandler can really act yeah.
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Track 2: Yeah i i wonder if it is personal i haven't done the timeline snooping i haven't
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Track 2: like formed a theory about whether it actually is about paul thomas anderson's
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Track 2: relationship with maya rudolph um,
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Track 2: that's their business you know i feel like i want to be respectful of that but,
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Track 2: i wondered when i re-watched it recently i wondered how personal it was yeah
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Track 2: because i think that like the phantom thread i think i think in general if you are a writer director,
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Track 2: the work is deeply personal even if it can't be read as such even if it's not obvious true.
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Track 1: Yeah or actually i was even considering i think they mentioned this in that
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Track 1: other podcast is that But if anything, I almost would see it more as part of
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Track 1: his relationship with Fiona Apple,
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Track 1: which apparently was a very messy relationship since then. Fiona Apple has come out since then.
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Track 1: So I wondered if it was more about that because he apparently could get violent,
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Track 1: not necessarily towards her, but just kind of be having these outbursts and
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Track 1: maybe choosing Adam Sandler,
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Track 1: which I think we should also talk about as his history and like some of his
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Track 1: other movies where he can be violent.
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Track 1: But also like Hidden has like underneath peel back the onion and he's kind of like a sweet person.
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Track 1: And I think that's kind of like the Adam Sandler character in this.
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Track 1: He has these outbursts, but he is like a deeply sweet person underneath.
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Track 2: Absolutely. And very lonely.
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Track 1: Yeah. I wrote lonely in my notes. I can't tell you how many times.
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Track 2: Yeah. And he says it. He says it when he calls the call girl, I think.
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Track 1: Yeah.
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Track 2: That he gets lonely and wants to talk to someone. And I think that it's maybe
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Track 2: beyond or deeper than loneliness he's alienated.
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Track 2: And you can speculate as to whether he alienated himself or the world alienated him or a bit of both.
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Track 2: But he he part
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Track 2: of his sweetness and part of what makes the performance so compelling and the
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Track 2: movie so watchable in my opinion is what a performance he's doing the character
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Track 2: is is giving and trying to make it work like trying to make his communication
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Track 2: work trying to make the relationships,
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Track 2: work the way that he thinks they're supposed to work
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Track 2: when they're clearly not working um it's like even the way that he speaks to
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Track 2: his employees and and then he's like remember to remember that I want to tell
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Track 2: you about the guy in Toledo and he's he's doing a performance of a of a boss and um,
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Track 2: It's funny and it's painful for him, but it's funny for us, which is the definition
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Track 2: of a lot of comedy, especially Adam's on the comedy.
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Track 1: Yeah. And it's, I think one of the things that I noticed when I watch it,
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Track 1: maybe more this time in general, is he deeply wants to fit in to society as a whole.
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Track 1: And maybe, as you say, it's a performance for him to be able to do it.
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Track 1: He doesn't actually fit in.
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Track 1: He's pretending. like his conversations with like the customers
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Track 1: where you don't actually see their faces you just kind of see the behind
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Track 1: the point of views from behind his customers like you're watching him
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Track 1: perform a customer call and
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Track 1: then constantly like 10 you know a bunch of his sisters
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Track 1: are calling and it's you know very funny but he
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Track 1: clearly has no way to fit in to society he doesn't know how to like his sisters
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Track 1: also mentioned like he never like they want him to come to this birthday party
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Track 1: but he doesn't go out ever it seems like they make it seem like he doesn't leave
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Track 1: his house ever except to go to work and go home and go to work and go to home he's you know.
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Track 2: Yeah yeah i mean i think that the film is a fantasy um it's a like very tight couple of days in its,
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Track 2: in his time period and it's you just,
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Track 2: it's grounded in some ways but in other ways it is just a fantasy that exists on its own terms,
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Track 2: um so time and space
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Track 2: don't actually behave in a normal
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Track 2: way like he just he appears
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Track 2: in Hawaii and says take me to where the beaches
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Track 2: and hotels are and and that's right
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Track 2: you know like Hawaii is it's not logical and it's
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Track 2: the same when he um and
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Track 2: I think actually on this re-watch I realized that one of the things he does
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Track 2: with the moving watercolors the like arty colorful things that happen in three
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Track 2: interludes is the third one allows Adam Sana's character to suddenly appear here in Utah.
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Track 1: Yes with.
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Track 2: With the phone.
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Track 1: Oh yeah we'll definitely talk about the phone the phone thing is um.
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Track 2: And so you know that's it's not an ungrounded piece of work but it has its it
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Track 2: has it completely has its own like logic in terms of time and time and space
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Track 2: and and the suit you know the suit remains,
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Track 2: immaculate the whole time so
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Track 2: it's not reality reality there's there's some parts of it aren't logical.
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Track 1: It's it's funny you mentioned that i actually i watched
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Track 1: this movie i don't know a year and a half ago just as
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Track 1: a rewind it's been a while since i've seen it and i actually thought
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Track 1: as i was watching it like is this actually is his
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Track 1: relationship with watson actually real or
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Track 1: is this simply a like a dream fantasy he's
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Track 1: having of like wanting a relationship with someone and so
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Track 1: in my head i was like is that all is all of
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Track 1: that just kind of not happening because all the times he's in
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Track 1: the hallways and the colors he goes through the when he flies to hawaii too
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Track 1: it kind of seems like it's magical like is this real and i guess you could in
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Track 1: a reading say it's it's not like that's all kind of a fantasy but i like to
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Track 1: believe that adam sandler does find true love me too me too but.
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Track 2: But i think that that's that's why
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Track 2: it does this that's why this movie contributes something
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Track 2: to this genre of like love stories and
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Track 2: rom-coms um isn't that what
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Track 2: falling in love is like like isn't that what encountering someone who radically
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Track 2: changes you um for the maybe the better and the worse it's it's it's intoxicating
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Track 2: right like it impacts you on it on multiple levels and in ways that don't do and don't make sense.
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Track 1: Right that's true.
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Track 2: And that's why I find it romantic and funny.
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Track 1: Yeah. And the funny is such a different kind of humor.
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Track 1: And what's interesting is I've read some things that Paul Thomas Anderson had
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Track 1: watched, had like a big fan of Adam Sandler's like early work, you know, his films.
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Track 1: And I think preparing for this, he also went and sat in like the writer's room
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Track 1: at Saturday Night Live to kind of see, you know, kind of how he ticked and that kind of thing.
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Track 1: And uh him wanting to make a movie with adam sandler is is like both extremely funny but,
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Track 1: like a different director could have wanted to
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Track 1: make a serious movie with him and not nailed it
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Track 1: whereas he took him and like molded him
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Track 1: or i don't know maybe just deep down in adam sandler he has this
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Track 1: really good acting chops i mean he must i mean the performance
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Track 1: is pretty immaculate and i'm not sure what i'm trying to
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Track 1: say is just that it's kind of amazing that he brought him in to make this
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Track 1: movie and then just made like something that was so captivating and i wrote
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Track 1: in my notes too that like the art direction the soundtrack the directing the
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Track 1: acting is all so deeply in sync and it's so much different than his previous
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Track 1: three films before this boogie nights heart eight and then magnolia it's yeah.
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Track 2: Yeah it's yeah it's to me it's
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Track 2: choreographed the whole thing is choreographed and some
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Track 2: of it really all comes together in
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Track 2: time and it's like
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Track 2: it's it's like in sync it's like a symphony there's like accents and the background
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Track 2: moves and everything works together and then there are other moments where it
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Track 2: gets really choppy and the and I think that the score um there's a kind kind
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Track 2: of percussive score going on in the background,
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Track 2: which isn't the music music that has vocal.
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Track 2: And I think that that's.
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Track 2: Adam sandler's inner world yeah how
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Track 2: he feels and and so he's experiencing
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Track 2: extreme like tension or uh
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Track 2: chaos internally even if even if externally
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Track 2: not that much is happening it becomes very pressured for
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Track 2: him but i think just going back to your point about was
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Track 2: there always a great performer in there i think
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Track 2: that anyone who does
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Track 2: comedy and anyone who does stand up has a
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Track 2: tremendous sensitivity um to response
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Track 2: to timing and like these are things that you're seeing played out with great
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Track 2: direction and in a very specific character but of course those have to be there
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Track 2: for anyone to weather the storm of certainly any stand-up comedy,
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Track 2: but definitely Saturday Night Life.
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Track 1: Yeah, that's true. Especially, you know, I think in a lot of his earlier films,
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Track 1: I suspect there's also lots of improv and like, you know, being able to kind
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Track 1: of do something unexpected.
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Track 1: I'm sure that a lot of, I don't know the history of a lot of the early films,
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Track 1: but I would imagine a lot of them are, you know, ad-libbed and that kind of thing.
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Track 1: And so, yeah, I would agree that his history of like, because I think you've
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Track 1: said a few times that this film is like kind of a comedy, but it's like a different
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Track 1: kind of comedy in some weird way.
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Track 1: Like it's, and sometimes you...
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Track 1: Want to laugh but you're not necessarily laughing at
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Track 1: the expense of adam sandler's character which is
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Track 1: another thing i like i noticed it's like people are sort of ribbing on him and
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Track 1: mostly his sisters and giving him a lot of hard time but you don't like you're
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Track 1: not laughing at him you're kind of like laughing with his idiosyncrasies and
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Track 1: these like weird moments where you're not he's not like the butt of the joke i guess yeah.
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Track 2: I agree you're not if anything you feel for him if anything you feel like mild
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Track 2: embarrassment to major cringe.
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Track 1: On his behalf yes um.
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Track 2: And yeah it doesn't have overt jokes um i think that there are there are moments
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Track 2: that kind of function as punch lines because of the way that everything's been
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Track 2: choreographed around it So like when the little piano arrives in the office,
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Track 2: it's like there's a culmination where his, I forget the name of the actor who
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Track 2: plays his like second in command.
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Track 2: But there's this beautiful scene which is really orchestrated where he shows
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Track 2: him the little piano and the guy says, what's it doing here?
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Track 2: And adam sandler like backs out of the backs out of the office and i could say
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Track 2: a lot of things about like planes of movement and how i think this movie is constructed but,
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Track 2: he backs out a bunch of things happen like the music peaks like just as he turns
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Track 2: around and looks at the camera or we see his face and he says i don't know and,
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Track 2: It's like, I think that the piano arriving unexpectedly is love appearing in
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Track 2: your life, like in a strange way.
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Track 2: I mean, and I don't think that I don't think you have to read this movie on
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Track 2: a deep level, but you can, which is part of what's so enjoyable about it for me.
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Track 1: I like that reading of the piano that way.
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Track 2: Yeah. And he doesn't understand it, but he and he like does a lot of running
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Track 2: with it, like picks it. So that's funny.
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Track 2: That's funny. Him picking up in his suit, knowing what we know about him,
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Track 2: him picking up a mini piano and running with it multiple times.
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Track 2: For me, that's where the comedy lies.
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Track 2: And the comedy also is very physical.
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Track 2: It's very slapstick. A lot of things get smashed in this movie.
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Track 2: There's a lot of smashing.
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Track 1: Well sorry he runs a lot of different times in the food in the in the.
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Track 2: Film he.
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Track 1: Runs away from the like the the men from utah they're coming to beat him up
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Track 1: he runs to like down the hallway,
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Track 1: lots of the running is very funny to me i think that's the cover of the is that
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Track 1: the cover of the hit of the of the i don't remember now if it's.
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Track 2: Him the only thing i remember is the when they're
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Track 2: kissing in silhouette i feel like that's like the main artwork yeah i think
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Track 2: the poster maybe they kid the silhouette and there's all the people walking
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Track 2: back and forth um and i but i think that the things also just crash um like
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Track 2: people's chairs collapse underneath them,
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Track 2: the novelty the novelty toilet brush the non-smashable one does smash which
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Track 2: is really funny and then later in the scene in the background one of the employees
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Track 2: is it's like testing it vigorously testing other ones um also.
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Track 1: The the the forklift crashes.
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Track 2: And a bunch.
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Track 1: Of boxes fall down.
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Track 2: Yeah and that's i think that's where the comedy lies and i also think that that
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Track 2: may it's interesting like where your imagination goes i think,
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Track 2: I wonder what Paul Thomas Anderson had to say to convince, did he have to convince Sarnler to do it?
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Track 2: Like, was it clear from the script what movie it was going to be?
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Track 2: And because I associate people hurting themselves and people falling over and
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Track 2: people smashing into things with Adam Sarnler comedy.
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Track 1: Yeah, I mean, you think about when, like, you think about films that came out
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Track 1: before, like, I think I mentioned Happy Gilmore too.
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Track 1: But I think in The Wedding Singer, which is also one of Paul Thomas Anderson's,
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Track 1: I think one of his favorite, that and I think Big Daddy were like two influences
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Track 1: on how he wrote the script for this.
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Track 1: And also those films have like a side of him that I think is actually shows
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Track 1: that he has the ability to act in a more dramatic way than just,
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Track 1: you know, being kind of the funny guy.
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Track 1: But he's like yelling in those films breaking things so he clearly i
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Track 1: don't know i i think that he had an
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Track 1: idea for the film and just knew that adam sandler would be the person
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Track 1: to be able to do it yeah uh and yeah
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Track 1: and um and i think you mentioned too the music also
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Track 1: crashes and has those crescendos in
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Track 1: a similar way that those things breaking do
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Track 1: but not in the same times and i think you mentioned something just a
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Track 1: few minutes ago about how like that's the inner sort of
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Track 1: inside of aunt sandler's head and that's also i wrote
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Track 1: noted that down that like his head is a complete mess
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Track 1: of chaos and it's not until he like finds
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Track 1: a piano where he's like trying to learn how to play it and he meets emily watson
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Track 1: and he can like actually finally like settle things down like when he's with
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Track 1: her the music isn't like that like when they're together he's it's not like
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Track 1: that it's when he's trying to get back to her or things around him are just
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Track 1: kind of just swirling i guess I think it's.
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Track 2: I think I haven't studied it like scene by scene, but my guess would be that
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Track 2: would occur after they've kissed.
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Track 2: I think when she first arrives, especially with the second time she comes in
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Track 2: with the sister, I think that the percussion is going wild.
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Track 1: Yes. Probably like it's heart or something, right?
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Track 2: Yeah. And I think I realized what I was trying to say before about performance, which is that,
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Track 2: And whether you perceive or like describe his performance in previous movies
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Track 2: as quote serious or not, what I think can't be underestimated is the commitment.
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Track 1: Yes.
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Track 2: It's the commitment to the straight man in the comedy or the commitment to the
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Track 2: person with the unusual characteristic, whatever it is, that is consistent in
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Track 2: all of his performances. Yeah.
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Track 2: Just because it looks easy doesn't mean it is. Or just because it looks easy
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Track 2: to him, it doesn't mean everyone can do that.
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Track 1: No, I mean, I think his those performances in those films, like in his early
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Track 1: days, you know, the 90s and early 2000s.
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Track 1: Yes. And I think sometimes people like, oh, like he's just this,
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Track 1: you know, he's just doing funny comedy.
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Track 1: But I don't think there are very many actors that could pull off the performances
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Track 1: in most of those movies at all.
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Track 2: I agree.
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Track 1: And so and yeah, I think someone in the again, I'm going to reference that other
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Track 1: podcast. They talk about the scene, which I think this is one thread that goes through.
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Track 1: You mentioned like how he's holding the phone, but like phones in this film
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Track 1: are like extremely important.
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Track 1: And I tried to look up. I didn't get a chance to. It's like I wonder how cell
23:04
Track 1: phones were starting to become more commonplace.
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Track 1: Not like not everyone had a
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Track 1: cell phone, but like maybe business people had them and things like that.
23:12
Track 1: But in this film, they use cordless phones like at his house and his apartment
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Track 1: and then the corded phones in his office and things like that.
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Track 1: But the very first time I think you see the cordless phone is in his apartment
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Track 1: when he calls the call girl and he's talking to her and he's pacing around.
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Track 1: And they were talking about how incredible that entire scene is one single shot.
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Track 1: And to be able to pull that off as any actor would be really difficult.
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Track 1: And not only is that scene amazing and one of I think one of the best scenes
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Track 1: is just because he's the way he's recalling all this information.
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Track 1: He's moving back and forth. He's extremely nervous, but also extremely calm.
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Track 1: There isn't really any music going during that time, which also was notable to me.
23:54
Track 1: And I don't know, that scene is just, I mean, that's also kind of like the scene
23:57
Track 1: that sets off a lot of the, you know, trouble he has for the rest of the film.
24:02
Track 2: And I think it's one of the first times you see the camera move that way.
24:06
Track 2: I think the camera moves in that scene in a way that it hasn't up till then.
24:12
Track 1: Yes.
24:12
Track 2: It follows him and it,
24:17
Track 2: again like I haven't I haven't done like a shot by shot breakdown but the first couple of scenes,
24:24
Track 2: the camera moves but it moves in a very very steady way,
24:28
Track 2: or in a very choreographed way round corners like it looks round the corner
24:33
Track 2: onto the street and then it waits really patiently until the car crashes and
24:38
Track 2: it does what it does throughout the movie which is it looks at things kind of,
24:45
Track 2: What's the word I'm looking for?
24:48
Track 1: Peripherally?
24:49
Track 2: It's at a right angle.
24:50
Track 1: Oh, okay.
24:51
Track 2: It's tracking back and forth and sometimes curving around. But the scene where
24:56
Track 2: he calls the call girl, it moves differently.
24:59
Track 2: It moves, it follows him, basically, and it doesn't cut and...
25:06
Track 2: Yeah, that's the anomaly. That's the thing that causes the ripple in the pond, so to speak.
25:12
Track 1: Yeah, you feel like you're walking with him as the camera's moving around.
25:15
Track 1: And also in those scenes, especially like the garage or their warehouse,
25:19
Track 1: whatever you want to call it, they also seem to move like more sharply back and forth.
25:22
Track 1: Like they have him in the office and then he moves over there.
25:25
Track 1: And here he's like slowing down.
25:27
Track 1: But he's already, at this point, he's already met, has he met Emily Watts?
25:31
Track 2: Yeah.
25:32
Track 1: Yeah, right. He meets us straight away. Right in the front scene,
25:33
Track 1: yeah. And also the other camera shot that I love is when after the car crash
25:39
Track 1: or the truck crash, they have the camera go in like all four directions in the street.
25:45
Track 1: They just kind of like, it goes in all those and it's actually was like jarring
25:49
Track 1: because none of the other shots in the film, like he just plays with so many
25:53
Track 1: different angles in this, which is why in just including the music and the colors just,
26:00
Track 1: you know, especially blue, like his suit's blue.
26:02
Track 1: Like a lot of the color palette is blue shaded just like that's why i view it
26:07
Track 1: as really not just like a film like there aren't many when i look at all of
26:12
Track 1: his paul thomas anderson feel like this one is like the one where i say like
26:15
Track 1: this is like a painting like a piece like a piece of art that i can hang.
26:18
Track 2: On my.
26:18
Track 1: Wall whereas the other ones are all great like you know there will be blood
26:22
Track 1: and you know all the phantom thread like they have different aspects of them
26:25
Track 1: but this one is like artful unlike.
26:27
Track 2: Any of his others so yes i agree i
26:30
Track 2: agree i think i think in general his work
26:34
Track 2: especially the way that the way
26:37
Track 2: that scenes are composed and shots are composed and i
26:40
Track 2: think i'm probably thinking about the master more than anything else has
26:44
Track 2: the ability to kind of reorganize something
26:47
Track 2: in in my brain at least on a
26:50
Track 2: weird unconscious level um and
26:53
Track 2: that's the charge of his work which makes it kind of mysterious and very rich
27:01
Track 2: and i think some people and can and can make it inaccessible depending on how
27:08
Track 2: much you've surrendered to the movie yeah basically and um,
27:14
Track 2: I like I really enjoy his work I like surrendering to it but for me there's
27:20
Track 2: something here and it's I think it's really held by the sound by the music I think that that,
27:29
Track 2: If you took away the music, I don't know if it would be enchanting.
27:34
Track 2: I think it would still be really beautiful because it is undeniable,
27:37
Track 2: the use of color and the use of light and dark as well.
27:45
Track 2: There's just amazing, in those first, like the opening five,
27:49
Track 2: ten minutes, where he moves out into the sunny light of the morning.
27:53
Track 2: And then in moments he retreats into the shadow of the whatever it is his workshop
28:00
Track 2: his workplace um that's happening again and again the use of light and dark.
28:05
Track 1: Yeah i wrote in my notes as that opening like that he keeps moving
28:08
Track 1: like from within the darkness into the light but
28:11
Track 1: he like can't stay in the light he has to keep retreating
28:15
Track 1: and then i guess you could say like at the end he finally comes out
28:18
Track 1: maybe completely like i think emily watson's hallway like
28:21
Track 1: in her building is also extremely bright i mean you
28:24
Track 1: never actually see the inside of her apartment you just see like the the doorway
28:27
Track 1: but somehow like but then is he like retreating again i
28:30
Track 1: don't know but um but to go back like briefly
28:33
Track 1: to like the phones like what do you make of because we
28:36
Track 1: talk about the so he has the scene with the call girl but then there's multiple other times
28:39
Track 1: when he's using a phone and then especially later when he
28:42
Track 1: goes to utah he literally is still holding the phone at
28:45
Track 1: the hospital he's still holding the phone and then eventually he
28:48
Track 1: just like gives it to someone and just like walks away and
28:51
Track 1: somehow like i had i've seen
28:54
Track 1: people have like different theories or just kind of different takes on it
28:57
Track 1: in some ways like my idea was it's sort of like this object is
29:01
Track 1: some kind of like comfort to him that he needs to he's always communicating
29:05
Track 1: with his sisters and business people on the other line but now he finally doesn't
29:09
Track 1: he found someone like in in real life you know he doesn't have to like communicate
29:14
Track 1: that way but it's also like a comfort thing i don't know And I'm curious,
29:18
Track 1: what do you think of the phone and if it is significant?
29:23
Track 2: I mean, it must be. Or even if it's arbitrary, it's fine.
29:28
Track 2: But I think it's a good point. I think there's comfort in it.
29:34
Track 2: And also, what phones used to mean, what landlines used to mean.
29:41
Track 1: Yeah.
29:42
Track 2: They were so tactile. And...
29:47
Track 2: Um you know like not
29:50
Track 2: to go on too much of a tangent but that movie september 5th
29:53
Track 2: about the munich olympics is an amazing thriller that uses it uses inserts of
30:00
Track 2: everything that's analog there's reels and cameras and phones there's a lot
30:05
Track 2: of buttons that get pushed and things that get slammed and i found that very
30:10
Track 2: satisfying and very effective,
30:13
Track 2: so yeah i think it's his i think it it's a comforting thing a telephone a plastic
30:18
Track 2: phone you can hold in that way one thing i noticed that really stood out to
30:24
Track 2: me is that it's the source of the threat as well as the source of potential
30:30
Track 2: comfort but it's more a source of threat.
30:34
Track 2: Um it's the sisters and then he uses
30:37
Track 2: the phone obviously to call the call girl but then she threatens him
30:40
Track 2: down all the different phone lines got your
30:43
Track 2: work number and early on he says do you want my house
30:46
Track 2: number to a guy it's like in case of the times as the guy's like why would i
30:50
Track 2: need to call you at home um so yeah this this lonely person yearning for communication
30:56
Track 2: has a strong relationship with phones but in the scene after he smashes up the
31:03
Track 2: bathroom in the restaurant,
31:06
Track 2: and the waiter's like, I'm going to fucking crack your head in.
31:10
Track 2: It's like, I didn't do that. Just let me stay. Just let me stay.
31:14
Track 2: He drops her off at her apartment, and they have the awkward moment where he
31:18
Track 2: shakes her hand, and it's that failure to do the thing you wanted to do at the
31:25
Track 2: end of the first date, and he leaves,
31:28
Track 2: and he speaks to himself, and he's obviously disappointed, And then when he
31:33
Track 2: gets to the front door of the building,
31:36
Track 2: there's a woman on like reception.
31:38
Track 2: She says, excuse me, sir, there's a phone call for you.
31:42
Track 2: And in that moment, when I rewatched it,
31:47
Track 2: And previously, whenever we first started talking about this, I saw it twice.
31:52
Track 2: In that moment, a tiny bit of fear appeared in my system. And I thought,
31:56
Track 2: shit, is it Georgia? Has she found him here?
32:00
Track 2: Because she's been harassing him on the phone, but of course it's not.
32:04
Track 2: And the voice says it's Lena. And then he relaxes.
32:09
Track 2: He's like, oh, who else would it possibly be on the phone?
32:13
Track 1: He probably thought it was going to be Georgia. like he'd already set himself
32:16
Track 1: up for disappointment he didn't have that yeah that that moment is like very
32:20
Track 1: like an exhale from the audience too and it's like so perfectly timed too he's
32:24
Track 1: like you know he's literally about to walk out the door and then i also love
32:28
Track 1: that he can't remember which apartment it is to go back it's so good yeah it's.
32:32
Track 2: So good and it's it speaks to the the awkwardness of
32:36
Track 2: those first dates that first contact
32:39
Track 2: which i love which is so usually like lost in in romantic comedies of some kind
32:46
Track 2: but i think it's kind of beautiful that her honesty comes her profound honesty
32:55
Track 2: appears like down a phone call in that moment.
32:58
Track 1: Yeah and i think also to like
33:01
Track 1: that awkwardness of like a first date or something he's he's
33:04
Track 1: actually consistently lying to emily to
33:08
Track 1: uh emily watson's character like kind of a you know he doesn't
33:11
Track 1: come clean about the bathroom and the call girl and
33:14
Track 1: like eventually he finally does he realizes like i need to be honest with you
33:17
Track 1: but these early like sort of like little white lies like to try and get people
33:21
Track 1: to you know like you more it's clear that he has had no as we've said like no
33:25
Track 1: friends he doesn't have anyone else except for his sisters who just seem to
33:29
Track 1: annoy him he doesn't want to actually ever see them you know so i'm.
33:33
Track 2: Not sure but i mean but he but he goes to the party he doesn't not go so he
33:39
Track 2: does want to be there and he lies to the sister when he says when he starts
33:43
Track 2: feeling nervous he starts to,
33:46
Track 2: he starts to bullshit in a way that's funny
33:49
Track 2: for us when he starts with the like gym membership and everyone can see everyone
33:53
Track 2: knows that it's a performance and it's not the truth um and I think that I think
34:01
Track 2: we have to talk about Emily Watson's performance because she's spectacular in this and I buy it.
34:08
Track 2: I buy it the whole way that she is...
34:12
Track 2: Um that she is attracted to
34:15
Track 2: him and curious about him and can also see him that she's not delusional she's
34:22
Track 2: like you are a strange person but yet i am i'm into you and yeah it's a it's
34:31
Track 2: a beautiful performance.
34:32
Track 1: Yeah and i saw one of the on the on the
34:35
Track 1: um criterion blu-ray there's a um there aren't a
34:38
Track 1: lot of interviews a lot too many special features but one of them is an interview
34:41
Track 1: that they gave at con when it was released at
34:44
Track 1: the festival and like before it was released broadly
34:47
Track 1: and they asked uh they interviewed
34:50
Track 1: each of them but one of the ones i thought was interesting is when they ask her
34:53
Track 1: uh emily watson sort of like you know how she
34:56
Track 1: came on this role and sort of like what the what was work like working with
34:59
Track 1: paul thomas anderson and he apparently he told her or
35:01
Track 1: she said that he told her to kind of like act less
35:06
Track 1: almost like do less than you normally do and be
35:08
Track 1: less dramatic and just kind of i don't i don't
35:11
Track 1: want to say play it straight but just kind of tone it
35:14
Track 1: down and she she almost it almost like is toned down to
35:17
Track 1: the point where like it is obviously still acting but it's
35:19
Track 1: like to the point where you do believe it is she just
35:22
Track 1: kind of this very calm measured person because
35:25
Track 1: if she had been anything more dramatic it doesn't really work with adam sandler's
35:29
Track 1: being very chaotic like it's almost like she's like the calmness that he needs
35:35
Track 1: like in his life and like eventually things calm down so i just thought it's
35:39
Track 1: an interesting direction for her is to be let to do less yeah.
35:43
Track 2: I mean i think it's a common direction i think.
35:46
Track 1: Oh okay i.
35:47
Track 2: Think the i think the camera sees sees everything and and doing less is but
35:52
Track 2: all that aside i don't know if i fully agree with you about her being calm i
35:57
Track 2: i recognize her as being very honest and very straightforward and also tender and,
36:07
Track 2: She's the counterpoint to the harshness of the sisters. And they're not even
36:11
Track 2: harsh on purpose. They're just sort of oblivious.
36:15
Track 1: Yeah.
36:16
Track 2: Like, I don't think that they're, I don't think they're meaning to destroy him, but they do.
36:23
Track 2: And I love the shot where they're all about to sit down at the table and it's
36:28
Track 2: this long table and there's like babies and husbands and cake.
36:31
Track 2: And then he just, he just smashes those windows.
36:34
Track 2: Um and she emily watson's character is this counterpoint she's really paying
36:42
Track 2: attention she's really open and not like she's not oblivious at all um she she.
36:49
Track 1: Seems to know more what's going on but just doesn't kind of like keeps it to herself maybe.
36:54
Track 2: Yes yes yes and the
36:58
Track 2: scene i really love the scene when they're
37:01
Track 2: in Hawaii in the hotel and it's
37:04
Track 2: the morning after and she's talking
37:07
Track 2: to his sister on the phone again and she
37:10
Track 2: lies she says no no he didn't call
37:13
Track 2: me like while she's looking at him and you can tell that she's doing it to be
37:23
Track 2: protective of them you know it doesn't it's not a malicious lie and then she's
37:29
Track 2: like looking at him and he sat in the bed in the dressing gown,
37:33
Track 2: He's like tucked up like a kind of man baby in the white dressing gown.
37:38
Track 2: It's the only time he's not wearing the suit.
37:41
Track 2: And he tells her the truth. He looks her in the eye and he says,
37:44
Track 2: I didn't have any business. I just came here for you.
37:48
Track 1: And sorry.
37:50
Track 2: No, no, it's like it's just a spectacular piece of staging and like choices being made.
37:55
Track 1: I just like the conversation they have after that, where they're sort of like
37:58
Track 1: another comedic moment where they're talking about like, you know,
38:01
Track 1: scooping her his eyes out. and these like.
38:03
Track 2: Like vulgar.
38:04
Track 1: Things and i like to think of a world where like they probably had even more
38:07
Track 1: of those that they like didn't make it in or like maybe they're in the script and.
38:10
Track 2: I just i think that.
38:12
Track 1: Is this like weird they have this uh this rapport
38:15
Track 1: with each other that's like brutally i mean maybe it's not completely brutally
38:20
Track 1: honest initially but she doesn't then she doesn't also lie about how you know
38:25
Track 1: she admits to him that she had seen his photo at like their house and that's
38:29
Track 1: why she set up going to the car and all these things like she's.
38:32
Track 2: Yeah had.
38:32
Track 1: Planned all of this very.
38:34
Track 2: Significantly but she she
38:37
Track 2: that she says that as soon as they sit down
38:40
Track 2: to dinner because she's like i didn't want
38:43
Track 2: to go too far without hiding anything something like
38:46
Track 2: that so and it's like it's there in her face it's like
38:48
Track 2: right there in her face this is beautiful round face they've
38:52
Track 2: given her this funny haircut so there's like none none
38:55
Track 2: of her face is obscured she's got these big round
38:58
Track 2: eyes um and she's obviously almost
39:01
Track 2: always wearing like the color counterpoint
39:04
Track 2: to his blue suit yes um it's really simple
39:07
Track 2: and she actually her silhouette is really elegant she looks a little bit like
39:13
Track 2: a lady in a screwball comedy she's like she's got like a skirt and a cardigan
39:18
Track 2: and there's something classy about
39:19
Track 2: it but it's really simple like it's not calling attention to itself um,
39:26
Track 2: But she cannot withhold, it doesn't seem.
39:32
Track 2: No. And that does something to him. And it's there in her witnessing as much as it is in her speech.
39:41
Track 1: Yes. Yeah. Her performance is incredible in this.
39:47
Track 1: And I think since we're talking about some of the other performances,
39:50
Track 1: I want to also talk about Philip Seymour Hoffman.
39:54
Track 1: And this who isn't in too many scenes but like
39:57
Track 1: pretty much any movie he's in he always steals the show and
40:00
Track 1: and anything he's in and so he plays he's
40:03
Track 1: like sort of like the boss of this sort of call girl operation which is
40:06
Track 1: clearly like a whole scam he's running i mean it always it does seem like it's
40:10
Track 1: only the georgia character but maybe there's others as part of this little group
40:13
Track 1: and he owns a mattress discount mattress store in utah and if you actually you
40:19
Track 1: can go on youtube You can find that there's actually a commercial they filmed
40:22
Track 1: for his mattress store that didn't make it into the film or anything like that,
40:26
Track 1: where he's playing guitar on a roof and jumps off the roof onto a stack of mattresses,
40:30
Track 1: but then falls on the ground and they are still filming the commercial. And he's like, I'm OK.
40:34
Track 1: It's, you know, it's it's it's great. And he plays.
40:38
Track 2: Can I just interrupt you?
40:40
Track 1: Oh, please.
40:40
Track 2: Was that supposed to be in the movie?
40:43
Track 1: No, no. I think they just filmed it for fun.
40:46
Track 2: All right, great.
40:47
Track 1: But I think in the other podcast, they mentioned that it would have been really
40:51
Track 1: funny if they could have somehow weaved the commercial into the background of some scene.
40:55
Track 1: But they alluded to the fact, like, it's in Utah. They wouldn't play a Utah
40:58
Track 1: commercial for mattresses in California. That would make no sense.
41:02
Track 1: So I don't know how they could have done it, but it would have been really funny.
41:04
Track 2: But loads of things don't make sense in this movie.
41:07
Track 1: No, that's true.
41:07
Track 2: So it would have been fine.
41:08
Track 1: Yeah, they could have just, well, I think there they commented that like wouldn't
41:12
Track 1: have been cool if Adam Sandler was at a laundromat doing his laundry and like
41:15
Track 1: the commercial in the background,
41:16
Track 1: which is playing the Philip Seymour Hoffman, you know, mattress commercial or
41:20
Track 1: something like that. And it's very, very funny.
41:23
Track 1: But I think what I was getting to is like, so we talked about kind of how Adam
41:27
Track 1: Sandler sort of has this anger kind of component to him.
41:30
Track 1: But then you sort of like meets his match for the only time in the film when
41:35
Track 1: he has the phone call with him, where they're both just like absolutely shouting at each other.
41:39
Track 1: It's one of the funniest scenes in the entire film for me.
41:43
Track 1: It's just, you know, I love Philip Seymour Hoffman, you know,
41:46
Track 1: gone too soon, of course. But he that scene is great and he doesn't play a big
41:51
Track 1: role, but it's like the perfect.
41:54
Track 1: I don't know, like there is Emma Watson is sort of this more,
41:58
Track 1: you know, not angry kind of person.
42:00
Track 1: Then you have Adam Sandler kind of having this internal anger and also outward
42:04
Track 1: anger, breaking the window and these things.
42:06
Track 1: Then you have Philip Seymour Hoffman as like this another level of rage.
42:10
Track 1: So I don't know what you thought about it.
42:11
Track 2: I think that there is an argument, sorry,
42:15
Track 2: I think there's a case to be made to screen this as a double bill with Charlie
42:21
Track 2: Wilson's war so that you can just see Philip Seymour Hoffman shouting at people,
42:27
Track 2: which is medicinal from my point of view.
42:30
Track 2: Like watching that man on leash is never gets
42:33
Track 2: boring and i think
42:36
Track 2: that he is i think that
42:39
Track 2: he understands how to wield his anger yes and how to make it a threat and how
42:47
Track 2: to make it dangerous to other people where adam sana's character is like this
42:52
Track 2: anger of mine is a danger to me and my relationships and my ability to make them.
42:59
Track 2: And I also think that, again, it's very elegant in its construction because
43:06
Track 2: the story is about this couple meeting, you don't want to leave them for very long or very often.
43:15
Track 2: And so it's like, it's the epitome of doing a lot with a little.
43:19
Track 2: Like, how do you anchor the story,
43:24
Track 2: truth of this threat in a very short amount of screen time.
43:29
Track 1: Yeah and.
43:30
Track 2: The answer is to to cast philip.
43:32
Track 1: C mothman.
43:33
Track 2: As an angry person.
43:34
Track 1: Yeah and yeah i just i love that scene like when they're angering but then also
43:38
Track 1: it's even better too when he goes to utah to sort of like i guess,
43:42
Track 1: settle settle things which you mentioned earlier like he just somehow all of
43:45
Track 1: a sudden is in utah like they don't show him driving it's he's just there and
43:49
Track 1: he has this like standoff where they're kind of like looking face to face and
43:52
Track 1: you know they kind of just agree to disagree almost like i'll leave you alone
43:56
Track 1: and you know you won't come here and threaten me and we can move on that's that yep say.
44:01
Track 2: That's that such a such a funny phrase.
44:04
Track 1: Yeah yeah yeah uh it's.
44:07
Track 2: Um yeah he's just he's spectacular it's occurring to me now that they're that
44:14
Track 2: that scene culminates in them squaring off in profile but it's the opposite
44:19
Track 2: of the profile of the lovers because the lovers are in silhouette.
44:23
Track 1: Yes and.
44:25
Track 2: That happens twice him and emily watson are in silhouette in the bedroom and
44:30
Track 2: then in the kiss in that when they meet in the hotel but this is the other way
44:33
Track 2: around that like you can see both of them and they're like nose to nose.
44:38
Track 1: Yeah i don't.
44:41
Track 2: Know if that means anything or if it's just that same thing of like light and dark and um.
44:45
Track 1: Yeah i mean he definitely comes back
44:48
Track 1: to a lot of the same sort of methods of
44:52
Track 1: showing like the the different contrasts just
44:57
Track 1: like the way he's showing so many contrasts of light and like
45:00
Track 1: the kind of like the i don't i'm not don't know
45:03
Track 1: the term of like where almost feels like the the the lens
45:06
Track 1: is like kind of like burning out with just that like bright white light
45:10
Track 1: you know um like especially the very opening scene shot
45:13
Track 1: when there's the truck and then when he's going to hawaii down the the runway
45:16
Track 1: or whatever the little you know there and just like those bright lights and
45:21
Track 1: then the opposite of sort of like the dark and dingy garage a dark and dingy
45:25
Track 1: back room at this mattress store and all these different uh places yeah.
45:31
Track 2: I mean i i think i think that this movie uses lens flare.
45:36
Track 1: Lens in a really beautiful Yeah, that's the term.
45:39
Track 2: But it's...
45:42
Track 2: Like everything else, it's timed. So it hits at a perfect moment,
45:48
Track 2: and I don't think it's gratuitous.
45:50
Track 2: And I don't think it's making it look good for the sake of it.
45:55
Track 2: I think it's being used intentionally.
45:57
Track 2: And I think a million people put Lensler all over music videos just to make them look shiny.
46:03
Track 2: And that's fine. You know, there's nothing wrong with that. But there's that
46:09
Track 2: single shot. Again, the elegance of it is one shot.
46:12
Track 2: He as he as he decided when he goes to Hawaii and
46:15
Track 2: it the thing that I love is that he realizes that
46:18
Track 2: the pudding plan isn't gonna
46:21
Track 2: work because they they want six to eight weeks
46:24
Track 2: and so he's furious and he's pacing around
46:27
Track 2: again on the phone bad news coming down the
46:30
Track 2: phone and then he abandons the
46:33
Track 2: plan and he hangs up the phone and he says to his colleague you're in
46:36
Track 2: charge I'm just gonna go and it's so sweet
46:39
Track 2: his colleague's like you're going to hawaii congratulations they're
46:43
Track 2: so happy for him yeah and you
46:46
Track 2: he cuts straight to sana walking down the walkway with his ticket in his hand
46:52
Track 2: and the camera like pivots and follows him it's just so so simple in its construction
46:57
Track 2: and there's like one single shot of him on the plane he's like i've never been
47:01
Track 2: on a plane before what's that noise he's.
47:03
Track 1: Like i don't know.
47:04
Track 2: And then we're in hawaii and um
47:07
Track 2: i think there's one thing i just have to
47:10
Track 2: it was just nudging me about emily watson's performance
47:13
Track 2: which is that right at the end he when
47:17
Track 2: he goes back to her and she opens the door
47:20
Track 2: she is so pissed she's
47:23
Track 2: furious and she says to him you left me at the hospital you
47:27
Track 2: can't do that and he apologizes for real and she obviously loves him and gets
47:33
Track 2: over it but a lesser director and a lesser actor would have missed that and
47:40
Track 2: it's it's essential because you she's real i think she is real i don't think she's,
47:47
Track 2: his his a figment of his imagination because she's,
47:53
Track 2: that if she was just fantasy she wouldn't do that.
47:57
Track 1: Yeah so it would have just been open arms let you back in like.
48:00
Track 2: Yeah all never.
48:01
Track 1: Wouldn't have to forgive you.
48:03
Track 2: Yeah but she's furious she's she's like you fucking left you know there's a
48:08
Track 2: point there's a there's a line that you can't cross and you crossed it or there's
48:11
Track 2: something that you must do and you didn't do it yeah and and that is And again,
48:19
Track 2: it's why he...
48:23
Track 2: Is able to be honest with her.
48:24
Track 1: Yeah because.
48:26
Track 2: He kind of has to be.
48:27
Track 1: Yes the just
48:31
Track 1: going back very briefly to the you mentioned the pudding plan
48:34
Track 1: like for people who don't know and maybe haven't seen this or
48:37
Track 1: like realize this like this was actually based on a story that
48:40
Track 1: actually happened that paul thomas emerson like there's actually
48:43
Track 1: an interview on the blu-ray where
48:46
Track 1: they interview the actual guy who this happened to with like
48:50
Track 1: katie curick on like good morning america like
48:53
Track 1: it's a good 10 minute interview of like how he planned this he actually
48:55
Track 1: spent three thousand dollars to get the million miles but apparently
48:58
Track 1: he wasn't like he wasn't like uh he didn't need the
49:01
Track 1: money like he was somewhat well off in
49:04
Track 1: a way but he did this anyway to have all the miles and i
49:07
Track 1: just love that that back plot is in there and like
49:11
Track 1: the scenes at the grocery store which we didn't really mention also is
49:14
Track 1: like you know grocery stores are like super bright like i i also love when he's
49:17
Track 1: like going back and forth he's like finding the different items and he finally
49:21
Track 1: sees the pudding and they show him kind of above the the shells walking through
49:25
Track 1: and then later he takes his co-worker to fill up the pudding and all of that
49:29
Track 1: and just i love that back plot where you sort of.
49:33
Track 1: Think he's crazy he's like what's all that pudding doing here and he has to
49:37
Track 1: sort of like Oh, you know, that's nothing like, you know, don't worry about the pudding.
49:41
Track 1: And but the thing that I also think about, too, is what I wanted to bring up
49:46
Track 1: is if had he never met Emily Watson, he was already doing making this plant.
49:50
Track 1: So what was he going to do with all of these miles? Like, who is he going to?
49:55
Track 1: To see like he didn't really have any friends or anyone to go see but now he
50:00
Track 1: at the very end is like i'm going to use my miles to just travel with you like i'm not going to.
50:03
Track 2: Work i'm just going to go.
50:04
Track 1: With you it's like what was what was his what was the what was going to happen
50:09
Track 1: if that didn't happen you know like i'm.
50:11
Track 2: Yeah yeah but that's the that's the that's the nature of like the mystery right
50:18
Track 2: of course he's it's like why did this tiny piano show up with this truck and,
50:24
Track 2: um why did i decide to buy this suit you know he even he's like i'm not really
50:30
Track 2: sure i just thought it would be nice to dress for work like he's clearly never
50:33
Track 2: worn that suit before um he.
50:36
Track 1: Sells plungers and he's wearing a like a beautiful blue suit.
50:39
Track 2: Right and the the
50:42
Track 2: scene where he he's like come on come on what am i
50:45
Track 2: looking for he's like there's something
50:47
Track 2: i'm looking for um when he first sees
50:50
Track 2: the the frequent flyer thing and like he's trying to figure
50:53
Track 2: pudding is the thing like the cheapest thing and there's
50:56
Track 2: this error with the barcodes and he tells her
50:59
Track 2: the story of it like it's this he
51:02
Track 2: says it's like a marketing mistake that he's trying to take advantage of
51:05
Track 2: before everyone else starts doing it which is
51:08
Track 2: indicative of his worldview and she
51:11
Track 2: says she says that's fucking
51:15
Track 2: crazy and that again it's this piece
51:18
Track 2: she's really logical she's paying attention um she's
51:21
Track 2: not she's not delusional but she's like willing to be amused like it's like
51:28
Track 2: she finds everything really funny and she has this kind of childlike delight
51:32
Track 2: at things while also somehow being an adult and being real which i i i think
51:38
Track 2: is really important somehow i think that's why she's attracted.
51:41
Track 1: To him in in like this way like she sees his picture like okay but then she.
51:45
Track 2: Meets him.
51:46
Track 1: And he's this like kind of quirky guy and just you know it's it's something
51:50
Track 1: like it's it's fascinating to her but not in like a cruel way.
51:54
Track 2: Um and so,
52:03
Track 2: it's so funny when he's when she says she's going
52:06
Track 2: to hawaii and he lies he's like hawaii i
52:10
Track 2: was thinking about going there yeah um
52:15
Track 2: yeah it's again i
52:18
Track 2: think if you look at this like a
52:22
Track 2: like a kind of mini extended
52:26
Track 2: trip psychedelic trip which is
52:28
Track 2: the kind of thing that like new love can induce in you like why was all these
52:34
Track 2: things happening at the same time like then there were the frequent flyer miles
52:38
Track 2: then i met a woman that flies a lot you know yeah it's this kind of moving tapestry
52:45
Track 2: that doesn't make sense but does yeah.
52:48
Track 1: Yeah i think i'm i'm i'm i've been convinced that there is that it's not a fantasy
52:54
Track 1: but maybe it's like it's a a real fantasy like a just kind of like a i hate
53:01
Track 1: to say like self-fulfilling prophecy it's not really that it just like
53:04
Track 1: the things all come together in a way that's so
53:07
Track 1: unexpected you know the piano and
53:10
Track 1: then her like bringing her car to the because he
53:13
Track 1: lit you know his job is next to this car place and all of these things happening
53:17
Track 1: that are just so far-fetched but somehow i mean that's i mean isn't that what
53:23
Track 1: so many rom-coms are like these far-fetched moments of like meeting someone
53:28
Track 1: and then like being separated and then somehow meeting again and so.
53:32
Track 2: That's you.
53:33
Track 1: Know it's like those rom coms but it's like it's not grounded but somehow it's grounded.
53:38
Track 2: Yeah exactly it's it's a masterpiece in
53:41
Track 2: that way and i think there's also for
53:44
Track 2: me this piece about the the background the literal
53:47
Track 2: actual location so i think
53:51
Track 2: i can think of twice i feel like
53:53
Track 2: it happens more where we have these huge trucks like huge
53:57
Track 2: trucks driving past and um
54:02
Track 2: first you have the cat first you have the car crash and then the cab that arrives
54:07
Track 2: and someone just leaves the piano there and then it's as a huge truck is going
54:13
Track 2: by that he like takes it and runs with it um and there's another moment the point being really that,
54:20
Track 2: The background is in motion. Like these trucks are so big that they look like
54:25
Track 2: walls and they're rolling around.
54:29
Track 2: And I feel like it's sort of tectonic
54:32
Track 2: shifts, you know, like the landscape itself is changing and moving.
54:37
Track 2: That's what happens when you meet someone who you really fall in love with, you know.
54:44
Track 1: Love stuff.
54:46
Track 2: Yeah. And it's done in a really elegant way.
54:50
Track 2: That like doesn't call attention to itself unless you watch movies the way i
54:55
Track 2: watch movies i don't know.
54:56
Track 1: Yeah yeah i think just opening with
54:59
Track 1: the with the crash too is sort of
55:02
Track 1: like maybe that's what it's like to you know meet someone
55:05
Track 1: and then the piano is there to almost like play
55:08
Track 1: into the musical level of the film and
55:11
Track 1: then the all the artful shots the beginning it's like
55:14
Track 1: they've he did such a masterful paul tanner sanderson's
55:17
Track 1: sort of masterful job at the just to opening the film with
55:20
Track 1: all these different sort of things that are going
55:22
Track 1: to then be like threads that are going to then be
55:25
Track 1: pulled throughout it and yeah yeah i mean i honestly can't
55:28
Track 1: say and you know you said at the beginning sort
55:31
Track 1: of like what this film is like the most maybe the
55:34
Track 1: most watchable of all of his films i can't really think of any of the other
55:38
Track 1: ones like that are all very good movies but i can't just like see myself just
55:42
Track 1: you know hopping down and watching there will be blood or boogie nights necessarily
55:45
Track 1: but this i could be like yeah you know i have a an hour and 45 minutes i'll
55:48
Track 1: watch you know watch this and yeah you know it's just uh i.
55:52
Track 2: Think i think licorice pizza falls into the watchable highly watchable category of his movies for me.
55:58
Track 1: Yes um.
55:59
Track 2: And i i love inherent
56:02
Track 2: vice that's that's probably the one
56:05
Track 2: i've watched the most other than this it's more of a mindfuck in terms of its
56:10
Track 2: plot and it i have to pay really hard attention to try and figure out exactly
56:14
Track 2: what's going on but i love that movie too i think that there's a tiny piece
56:21
Track 2: well when i watch licorice pizza,
56:26
Track 2: I thought, if you had a friend and their parents were like a legendary couple
56:34
Track 2: who'd been together decades, this is the story of how they met.
56:40
Track 2: You know, like that couple that everyone is like, your parents are the best.
56:45
Track 2: And it's so funny that she's actually a couple of years older than him.
56:49
Track 2: It doesn't seem like anything when they're 65 and 68, you know.
56:54
Track 1: But.
56:55
Track 2: Three years in high school makes a really big difference and um i wonder whether
57:01
Track 2: maybe punch truck love comes in that category as well like that was the story of how we met.
57:06
Track 1: Yeah that's interesting yeah i've
57:11
Track 1: watched uh it's funny sometimes i think that like rich pizza
57:14
Track 1: kind of gets um lost i think it also
57:17
Track 1: came out like you know a year into sort of the covet
57:20
Track 1: and probably didn't get as much of the i don't
57:23
Track 1: know i don't want to say respect like much of the viewership that
57:27
Track 1: it deserves and um yeah maybe
57:30
Track 1: that's true i think it's actually one
57:32
Track 1: that i've probably seen the least licorice pizza i think uh
57:36
Track 1: i also really love heart a2 like as
57:39
Track 1: a you know opening yeah first film of a director it's like he's what like 24
57:43
Track 1: years old when he makes that i mean yeah gosh uh yeah but yeah all these yeah
57:49
Track 1: but yeah i'm curious um but yeah do you have any any last sort of thoughts on
57:53
Track 1: uh the film that you know things or notes that you didn't get a chance to to hit on um.
57:58
Track 2: The art of its slapstick and of its like pain is gets overlooked sometimes um Um,
58:10
Track 2: but loads, I, you know, I don't know because I think in general,
58:15
Track 2: his work can confuse people.
58:19
Track 2: And so I also don't know if there is consensus.
58:23
Track 1: Yeah.
58:24
Track 2: Maybe more than most directors. I don't, I don't see a consensus about which movies are great.
58:31
Track 2: I know people who don't love this movie, you know, and we share tastes in a
58:35
Track 2: lot of other movies, but they couldn't get with this one.
58:37
Track 2: Um and maybe that's what makes him so compelling um yeah no i think i think,
58:48
Track 2: the only thing i was thinking which is kind of a tangent is are there ways in
58:54
Track 2: which are there ways in which paul thomas anderson and adam sandler's work is similar,
59:02
Track 2: like which seems it seems like the answer is no and i can't make a solid case
59:08
Track 2: like i haven't like fully developed this theory but yes,
59:13
Track 2: I wonder whether they both feel misunderstood.
59:16
Track 2: I think a lot of people who make movies feel misunderstood and you can't ever
59:22
Track 2: really know how a movie is received by everyone who receives it.
59:26
Track 2: It's always going to be a mixed bag to some degree.
59:29
Track 1: Yeah, I think that's probably right.
59:33
Track 2: But it just tickles me. It tickles me that these two really brilliant people,
59:38
Track 2: got together to make this really weird movie and it's so beautiful.
59:42
Track 1: Yeah yeah and to just you mentioned like sort of
59:45
Track 1: looking at ptas like the list
59:48
Track 1: of films and like which ones are popular which ones are more fair i
59:51
Track 1: think i've looked at like lists on letterboxd people's like
59:54
Track 1: their rankings of them and they're always so wildly different but i think what
59:58
Track 1: makes part of his filmography in general is like he's never made a bad movie
1:00:02
Track 1: like there's just some that like maybe are easier and more accessible to watch
1:00:06
Track 1: for some people and more often and others Like I couldn't really see myself
1:00:09
Track 1: watching The Master all the time, but it's just an incredible film too.
1:00:13
Track 1: Same thing with Magnolia. And then the only note I wanted to mention that I
1:00:17
Track 1: thought was interesting is that, because I just watched Magnolia.
1:00:19
Track 1: So in the Tom Cruise character in that film, he kind of, a little bit of a spoiler
1:00:24
Track 1: at the end, he sort of is professing sort of his love and his kind of sadness
1:00:28
Track 1: at not really knowing his father.
1:00:30
Track 1: And he has this love, he doesn't know where to put it. But then it's almost
1:00:34
Track 1: like in this film, Adam Sandler like also feels that way, but then finally has
1:00:38
Track 1: somewhere to put it at the end.
1:00:39
Track 1: Like he actually reaches this moment where he has Emily Watson and can actually
1:00:44
Track 1: put his love somewhere. So maybe in that way, because Magnolia is a deeply personal film for PTA.
1:00:51
Track 1: So at the beginning, I said, like, maybe this isn't like maybe actually it is.
1:00:55
Track 1: Maybe this is sort of, you know, what he couldn't accomplish maybe in that film
1:01:00
Track 1: because that was such a serious, long, you know, different storylines.
1:01:04
Track 1: And this is much more simple, like in quotes, in a way, as a film. So, yeah.
1:01:11
Track 2: Yeah, yeah. I just...
1:01:14
Track 2: This is just a pet peeve. I hate that, like, that culture of ranking movies.
1:01:20
Track 2: I really hate it. I think it's really stupid.
1:01:24
Track 2: And I understand it as a talking point, as a way of accessing,
1:01:29
Track 2: like, where do we stand on a subject?
1:01:31
Track 2: It can be useful in that way. but i think it squashes it squashes the lens through
1:01:41
Track 2: which you see the work because,
1:01:43
Track 2: true people progress do you know what i mean like you you you learn so much
1:01:48
Track 2: when you make a movie and then you if you're lucky and good you get a chance
1:01:54
Track 2: to do it again and you know life has happened to you as well as the movie experience
1:01:58
Track 2: that you've the movie making experience you've,
1:02:01
Track 2: and so i just because i
1:02:04
Track 2: guess and as a maker myself i understand those things is happening it was like
1:02:08
Track 2: a trajectory so yeah i just find it um i find it a distortion but i do see your
1:02:15
Track 2: point and i think it it's yeah it's probably you know i feel like with kubrick as an example,
1:02:24
Track 2: you're gonna see a lot of people's favorite be the favorite it's like it's never
1:02:28
Track 2: gonna be barry linden you know like that's not going to be the one that everyone
1:02:31
Track 2: says this is best movie not that i mean barry linden's a beautiful movie but um but yeah.
1:02:39
Track 1: No it's it is true it's not like the best way to
1:02:43
Track 1: do it i think it's one of those sort of like social media
1:02:47
Track 1: kind of creations where like people are putting their ratings
1:02:50
Track 1: and i sometimes try as a just like more personal
1:02:53
Track 1: thing is sometimes when i when i watch a movie and i like post
1:02:56
Track 1: it i you know on there like i log it i sometimes don't want to put a rating
1:02:59
Track 1: and i just want to put like what i thought of it and sometimes just because
1:03:02
Track 1: like like how can i compare you know punch drunk love with a you know a movie
1:03:08
Track 1: that's so different and a different genre that has like this sentimental value
1:03:12
Track 1: but like most people would be like that movie's trash you know.
1:03:15
Track 2: So it's.
1:03:15
Track 1: Like i don't know the ratings in general like i think i've talked about some
1:03:18
Track 1: other episodes it's like such a both.
1:03:21
Track 2: Like meaningless.
1:03:21
Track 1: But also like maybe meaningful to yourself i don't know.
1:03:25
Track 2: Yeah i think i think for me there's it's one thing to,
1:03:33
Track 2: express your evaluation of something which is a rating but for me it's the ranking,
1:03:40
Track 2: it's the ranking things in like top 10 lists and 100 best you know like best.
1:03:46
Track 1: Films of all time or something.
1:03:48
Track 2: Best films of all time um on based
1:03:52
Track 2: on what merit and based on what merit on on its longevity or its box office
1:03:58
Track 2: or how how broad an audience it
1:04:02
Track 2: can it can meet for me movies are about longevity and they're also about,
1:04:10
Track 2: For example, with Punch Drunk Love, I watched it two nights ago and I watched
1:04:15
Track 2: it four weeks ago and I had a very different experience.
1:04:18
Track 2: And it was a rich visual storytelling experience both times.
1:04:24
Track 2: And I think that is one of the hallmarks of his movies.
1:04:30
Track 2: Whether you could say he never made a bad movie, I would say he's never made a lazy movie.
1:04:35
Track 2: Yeah you know you can feel how
1:04:38
Track 2: intentional it is and how much he is connected to the
1:04:41
Track 2: process of it and unfortunately that's
1:04:45
Track 2: not true of all directors i don't understand how you could make
1:04:47
Track 2: a sloppy movie myself because it's such hard work and
1:04:50
Track 2: like why would you bother but it does it does obviously occur um and so i think
1:04:57
Track 2: yeah you i i can't locate the metric something as complex and rich as a movie
1:05:02
Track 2: i can't locate the metric to rank one over the other um i understand though
1:05:07
Track 2: no it's that's like the culture yeah.
1:05:09
Track 1: It's it's certainly uh very reasonable.
1:05:12
Track 2: You know perception.
1:05:14
Track 1: Yeah and it is it is as you say that it's like yeah it's kind of like a thing
1:05:19
Track 1: that people do but like do you need to do it you know probably not but.
1:05:25
Track 2: It occurs yeah yeah but.
1:05:28
Track 1: Uh portia um thank you.
1:05:30
Track 2: For Thank you for coming.
1:05:31
Track 1: On and talking about Punch Drug Love. It's been great.
1:05:34
Track 2: Thank you, Evan. I really enjoyed it.
1:05:36
Track 1: Of course. And you can listen to this podcast wherever you're listening now.
1:05:40
Track 1: Give a like, a rating, a follow.
1:05:43
Track 1: And you can check out Portia's work and information in the notes below.
1:05:47
Track 1: And we will catch you next time.