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Chicago Cubs mailbag: Where is the accountability? · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: If he just completely crumbles in the second half that
0:03
Speaker 1: contract that comes in albatross. There are very few teams
0:06
Speaker 1: that can overcome that type of deal. Welcome into North
0:13
Speaker 1: Side Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm Sahadev Sharma
0:18
Speaker 1: with Patrick Mooney, where your Cubs beat writers over at
0:20
Speaker 1: the Athletic covering the free falling Cubs. Patrick, the Phillies
0:27
Speaker 1: come to town down three stars and they have a
0:31
Speaker 1: fourth that can crush another team's hopes. And Trey Turner
0:36
Speaker 1: did exactly that. You know, It's just that we don't
0:40
Speaker 1: need to get too far into the details because it's
0:43
Speaker 1: just more of the same, no offense, a star crushing
0:47
Speaker 1: the team, Trey Turner with two homers, RBI single, they're
0:51
Speaker 1: not doing enough. Hayden was Nesky with home run problems,
0:55
Speaker 1: those continue for him, and just you know, this feeling
1:00
Speaker 1: of this isn't good enough and you're being outclassed by
1:03
Speaker 1: the best team in baseball. Just a stark difference in
1:06
Speaker 1: talent level, a stark difference in performance and entertainment value.
1:12
Speaker 1: Cubs fans have to be we know are sick of
1:17
Speaker 1: this and frustrated. And then that's why we're doing another
1:21
Speaker 1: mail bag episode because you guys are frustrated, and you
1:24
Speaker 1: guys deserve to have your voices heard and your questions answered.
1:28
Speaker 1: There's just, you know, too much bad going on for
1:33
Speaker 1: a team that had high expectations coming into the season
1:36
Speaker 1: and now sits eight games under five hundred. It's like
1:39
Speaker 1: every week it's another low point. You could say, you
1:43
Speaker 1: can't say this is the low point, because they can
1:46
Speaker 1: definitely fall further down.
1:50
Speaker 2: Exactly on tod I thought you put it well in
1:52
Speaker 2: your latest at the Athletic of just kind of drawing
1:56
Speaker 2: out the distinctions and comparisons between these two teams and
1:59
Speaker 2: how they kind of went about it, building on what
2:03
Speaker 2: we talked about with our buddy Matt Gilp from the
2:06
Speaker 2: Athletic last time, of just what the Phillies have built.
2:11
Speaker 2: I mean, Philadelphia is not a glamorous free agent city,
2:13
Speaker 2: and yet guys want to go there. It's supposed to
2:16
Speaker 2: be a tough place to play. I mean, you saw
2:19
Speaker 2: it last night, how many Phillies fans were traveling. I
2:22
Speaker 2: mean there's a big section right outside the visiting doug
2:27
Speaker 2: out there, and I'm pretty sure there was a huge
2:29
Speaker 2: let's go Phillies change, just like cheering these guys on
2:32
Speaker 2: like it's the vibes are really really good there with
2:36
Speaker 2: the Cubs is not necessarily bad as much as just
2:39
Speaker 2: like kind of blah, which might even be worse. And
2:45
Speaker 2: I think we got so many good questions here. This
2:49
Speaker 2: exercise helps us think about the team and generate story ideas.
2:53
Speaker 2: And so we'll start here side it for you. We
2:56
Speaker 2: got Clay I low. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly,
3:02
Speaker 2: But Clay Wrights, when are we gonna hear some accountability
3:06
Speaker 2: from Craig Council. They hired him because he air quotes
3:10
Speaker 2: gets the most ad a team, and that's clearly not
3:13
Speaker 2: the case currently.
3:16
Speaker 1: Well, you know, like, I don't know if I agree
3:19
Speaker 1: with him getting the most out of the team. I
3:22
Speaker 1: think the team has to perform. I think this is
3:24
Speaker 1: a big The big difference between last year and this
3:27
Speaker 1: year is for those first three months I watched that
3:30
Speaker 1: team and I said, I think this team should have
3:32
Speaker 1: more wins. I think they're playing better than their record.
3:34
Speaker 1: States your record is your record, but I think they're
3:37
Speaker 1: playing well. I do not even have the slightest bit
3:41
Speaker 1: of that feeling watching this team. They're not playing better
3:44
Speaker 1: than their record. States they're playing down to their to
3:48
Speaker 1: their record. They have the record they deserve. Council is
3:52
Speaker 1: working with what he has and the players aren't aren't performing.
3:56
Speaker 1: When are we gonna start? Listen? Council isn't a screamer,
3:59
Speaker 1: He's not a year doesn't really fully call uh guys out,
4:05
Speaker 1: but he he seems pretty exasperated with his team's performance.
4:10
Speaker 1: I mean he yesterday, you know, he wasn't fooled by that.
4:13
Speaker 1: He wasn't trying to spin that ninth inning three runs off.
4:18
Speaker 1: You know what, they're probably the Phillies' fifth best reliever
4:21
Speaker 1: or something like that. Uh yeah, that he wasn't. He
4:25
Speaker 1: wasn't acting like that changed anything because he said there
4:29
Speaker 1: was nothing happening, and essentially the first eight innings he
4:34
Speaker 1: he's he's frustrated with this offense. We got to do
4:37
Speaker 1: more offensively. That's one of the things we have to do,
4:40
Speaker 1: There's no question about it. Just too many easy innings today.
4:45
Speaker 1: I mean, he's they're giving outs the way to the opposition.
4:48
Speaker 1: Yet I think you said you wrote oh for twenty
4:51
Speaker 1: six to end the Brewers game on on Sunday Tuesday.
4:57
Speaker 1: It would have been like, oh for sixteen to end
5:00
Speaker 1: the game. And and they but they they had those
5:03
Speaker 1: hits against the reliever and say it delivers that three
5:06
Speaker 1: run homer. It was. It was a you know, four
5:09
Speaker 1: innings four through eight were nothing and that's not hyperbole.
5:13
Speaker 1: That was they didn't do anything. They went down in order. Uh,
5:18
Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger had RBI double and in the third and
5:22
Speaker 1: then out to end that inning. All the way through
5:26
Speaker 1: the eighth inning, outs outs, outs. That's it against a
5:30
Speaker 1: rookie making his first major league start. And then yeah,
5:34
Speaker 1: some good relievers out of a Phillies bullpend that. Gelb
5:37
Speaker 1: told us, you know that they're focused on adding velocity,
5:40
Speaker 1: and they've done that. I don't know when when people
5:44
Speaker 1: talk about accountability, does that mean, like, is he supposed
5:49
Speaker 1: to bench guys and then put in worse players and
5:51
Speaker 1: then essentially you're not like they don't have better players
5:55
Speaker 1: to play. He's trying to win games. He's he's not
5:58
Speaker 1: giving up on the season, right, So he's not gonna
6:02
Speaker 1: start Patrick Wisdom and Miles master Bony and whoever else
6:06
Speaker 1: is on this bench. He's not going to start them
6:09
Speaker 1: every day. Right. He doesn't believe they're the answer to
6:13
Speaker 1: winning games. He's trying to win games. He doesn't. There's
6:15
Speaker 1: not a lack of effort from the players. Did did
6:19
Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger run into an out the other day that
6:22
Speaker 1: he shouldn't have? Sure? I don't think that's because Cody
6:25
Speaker 1: Bellinger is not trying or or doesn't care. He made
6:29
Speaker 1: a mistake and he screwed up. When it happens when
6:32
Speaker 1: things are going bad, that's you know, it's it's all
6:36
Speaker 1: the more magnified. I think it's similar to the Justin
6:39
Speaker 1: Steele thing on Saturday. Justin Steele screamed and yelled. Right,
6:44
Speaker 1: they win a bunch of games, and that's motivational. Hey,
6:48
Speaker 1: look what he did. He fired up his team. They
6:50
Speaker 1: keep losing, and that's that's a team coming apart at
6:53
Speaker 1: the seams. It's however you want to read it, you know,
6:55
Speaker 1: it's how you want to read it and how you
6:57
Speaker 1: want to perceive things. I don't think they're something that
7:01
Speaker 1: Craig Council can do right now that flips a switch
7:04
Speaker 1: with this team. Uh. It just that's not where this
7:08
Speaker 1: team is right now. It's the talent, It's the players.
7:10
Speaker 1: They need to perform. It's on them. And I don't
7:13
Speaker 1: think accountability quote unquote fixes this because I'm not sure
7:18
Speaker 1: what that means and how that looks. I think the
7:22
Speaker 1: player he is holding players accountable, but he has to
7:25
Speaker 1: play the players that he thinks gives him the best
7:27
Speaker 1: chance to win.
7:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think it's it's hard, though, to say
7:33
Speaker 2: that he's doing a good job.
7:34
Speaker 1: That's that's the only sure sure. Did I say he
7:37
Speaker 1: was sorry if I said if I said he's doing
7:40
Speaker 1: I think.
7:41
Speaker 2: I agree with your explanation, and I think our next
7:45
Speaker 2: question will kind of get into more of the root
7:47
Speaker 2: cause of this. But it's just a it's just a bad,
7:50
Speaker 2: bad look. I didn't want Clay to think that his
7:52
Speaker 2: question was.
7:55
Speaker 1: Kind of being.
7:57
Speaker 2: Dismissed, not that you were dismissive, but just that like
8:01
Speaker 2: everything you said was true.
8:02
Speaker 1: Aiut it.
8:02
Speaker 2: But it's also like, dude, you're You're supposed to be
8:05
Speaker 2: the guy right here. You're the one who's supposed to
8:08
Speaker 2: like tighten a lot of this up, and it just
8:10
Speaker 2: it's just been a odd how.
8:13
Speaker 1: It hasn't been good enough. And I listen, yeah, I
8:15
Speaker 1: will say that. You know you want to blame counsel
8:18
Speaker 1: that listen, the blame has to be spread, right now,
8:21
Speaker 1: everyone gets the blame, I think players, and like, let's
8:25
Speaker 1: we'll let me ask the next question here to you, Patrick,
8:28
Speaker 1: because who put this team together? Right? It's Jeed Hooyer, right,
8:32
Speaker 1: And here's Jay Madden's glasses asking us what is the
8:37
Speaker 1: best argument for not firing Jed Hoyer.
8:43
Speaker 2: Well, I personally don't think Jed will get fired. I
8:49
Speaker 2: think there's a lot much larger conversation about like what
8:53
Speaker 2: went wrong this year, what happened. I think if you
8:59
Speaker 2: follow chairman Tom Ricketts how he's owned this team, He's
9:03
Speaker 2: always thought about the long term. He's been relatively patient
9:09
Speaker 2: and supportive and not someone who interferes or looks.
9:16
Speaker 1: To kind of.
9:18
Speaker 2: Break things up like you very much, kind of like
9:22
Speaker 2: continuity stability. I think this team was sort of designed
9:27
Speaker 2: in a way that ownership wants it to, and that
9:30
Speaker 2: is to kind of sneak into a wild card compete
9:35
Speaker 2: for the division, not spend like the Dodgers, not spend
9:39
Speaker 2: like the Yankees, and that you know, they do have
9:44
Speaker 2: pitching in a way that they didn't earlier, and that
9:47
Speaker 2: to me gives a little more credibility of like, which
9:52
Speaker 2: is why I didn't think the bottom would fall out
9:54
Speaker 2: like before the fourth of July. So I was wrong
9:57
Speaker 2: on that, but I think it would be look knowing
10:01
Speaker 2: the circumstances in which he took this job. I mean,
10:04
Speaker 2: Kyle Schwarber, like Jed, was not like I want to
10:08
Speaker 2: get rid of Kyle Schwarber for nothing. It was no,
10:11
Speaker 2: I need to make my budget number and cut millions
10:15
Speaker 2: and millions of dollars, and Schwarber is just one. You know,
10:19
Speaker 2: his name came up. You know that. That's just kind
10:22
Speaker 2: of how it worked. That was not a talent evaluation thing.
10:26
Speaker 2: The U Darvish trade was clearly something that was driven
10:32
Speaker 2: by financial considerations. And so you know, I think if
10:36
Speaker 2: you look at those circumstances, I think last year happened
10:38
Speaker 2: a little maybe faster than they thought. I think this
10:43
Speaker 2: was going to be the year, and maybe last year
10:45
Speaker 2: lulled them a little bit into a false sense of security.
10:49
Speaker 2: I think at this point, Ricketts knows that baseball is weird.
10:55
Speaker 2: If you look at one one run game, you know,
10:59
Speaker 2: every three weeks going your way, the season looks a
11:03
Speaker 2: lot different. They're right in it, credibly, and I think
11:08
Speaker 2: they're positioned to go right back at it next year.
11:12
Speaker 2: Let's see what they do with the trade. Deadline, But
11:14
Speaker 2: like I think there's the the bones of a competitive
11:18
Speaker 2: team is still in there. I think Jed Hoyer conducts
11:23
Speaker 2: himself with a lot of integrity. He works well with
11:26
Speaker 2: others and from our understanding, at the highest levels of
11:32
Speaker 2: the Wrigley Field office building. So like, you know, this
11:35
Speaker 2: isn't really what we think or what the fans think.
11:38
Speaker 1: It's like, what is ownership thing?
11:40
Speaker 2: What did Jed Hoyer's bosses think? And I just have
11:42
Speaker 2: a hard time seeing them being like just blowing everything up.
11:47
Speaker 2: Now that sets up, you know, kind of a lame
11:52
Speaker 2: duck year as an executive final contract year, Like do
11:56
Speaker 2: you give him extension? Probably not. I don't see how
11:59
Speaker 2: that happens. Do you let him see out the entire
12:03
Speaker 2: five year term that you had given him when the upsoe,
12:06
Speaker 2: I think that I think that is fair to give
12:09
Speaker 2: him the five to see what happens. But it's kind
12:14
Speaker 2: of like with David Ross when it goes off the
12:17
Speaker 2: rails in this kind of unpredictable, surprising fast way, you
12:26
Speaker 2: let other variables, other voices come in, and you just
12:30
Speaker 2: don't quite know what could happen. All right, we need
12:39
Speaker 2: one just go a little back more onto like the
12:42
Speaker 2: ross the field. We got Kevin W. Ferris for you, Sahadev,
12:47
Speaker 2: what would selling look like for this team moving Belly?
12:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know it's funny, this is this is what
12:57
Speaker 1: we've we've been talking about this lot in the in
13:00
Speaker 1: the press box, right Like it's kind of the discussion
13:04
Speaker 1: among writers, what what does this look like? Yeah, I
13:07
Speaker 1: think Belly is a name you have to mention. I
13:09
Speaker 1: think look, he was he was asked about it. He
13:15
Speaker 1: was asked about it a couple of times after the
13:17
Speaker 1: game yesterday. You know, kind of like, is it shocking
13:21
Speaker 1: that we're doing this again. We're gonna have to start
13:23
Speaker 1: asking you. It's July. The team is, you know, in
13:26
Speaker 1: last place, eight games under. We got to talk about
13:29
Speaker 1: the trade deadline again. And you know he's focused on
13:32
Speaker 1: trying to turn things around because he knows he's he's
13:36
Speaker 1: gone through this. He has the right answers. But yeah, Belly,
13:39
Speaker 1: I think that's where the obvious answer is. You have
13:43
Speaker 1: to under it. Like I I think it's important to
13:46
Speaker 1: understand his contract. He has an opt out after this year.
13:50
Speaker 1: I think it kind of like it complicates things, you know,
13:55
Speaker 1: is it is it something where that hurts his value
13:59
Speaker 1: because teams fear that if he if he just completely
14:04
Speaker 1: crumbles in the second half, that contract becomes in albatross. Uh.
14:08
Speaker 1: There are very few teams that can overcome that type
14:11
Speaker 1: of deal, right, I mean the Yankees are probably one.
14:14
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, and they could they could use them. The
14:18
Speaker 1: Phillies could use them, and and they're probably another team
14:20
Speaker 1: where it's just like, yeah, we can overcome that that
14:24
Speaker 1: that if he opts in. Uh, you if listen, if
14:29
Speaker 1: if he is the guy, if if if that's the guy,
14:32
Speaker 1: you move, You want him to get hot. You want
14:35
Speaker 1: to see more games like yesterday where he was driving
14:37
Speaker 1: the ball and pulling the ball hard. Uh, he only
14:39
Speaker 1: came away with one extra base hit. Nick Casiano stole
14:42
Speaker 1: probably another one, But it's a yeah, that that's where
14:47
Speaker 1: it starts. And then then you start talking about bullpen arms.
14:50
Speaker 1: Is it Tyson Miller who was already you know, he
14:54
Speaker 1: was moved once, Yeah, it could make sense to trade him.
14:58
Speaker 1: Who who else in that bull pen? I mean I
15:03
Speaker 1: guess yeah, yeah, it's about who's healthy and who's performing.
15:08
Speaker 1: And then yeah, I think you start you start looking
15:12
Speaker 1: at it basically becomes who doesn't have a no trade clause? Right,
15:17
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I mean look around the diamond. You know,
15:22
Speaker 1: Danzy Swanson isn't being moved, right, Michael Bush is part
15:25
Speaker 1: is having a good season and it's part of the future.
15:27
Speaker 1: You're not moving him. It's gonna be hard to move,
15:30
Speaker 1: sayas Azuki Riian Hap, right, maybe you could, maybe they wait,
15:34
Speaker 1: maybe Ian half Waves is no trade clause. I just
15:36
Speaker 1: don't think those are the guys that you focus on.
15:40
Speaker 1: Nico Horner could make some sense when you have guys
15:43
Speaker 1: like James Triantos and met Sean the and the minors
15:48
Speaker 1: and then in the starters. I think you the the
15:53
Speaker 1: crazy aggressive move is trading Justin Steel, Right, that's the
15:58
Speaker 1: crazy aggressive move. Where what you mentioned before, and I agree,
16:02
Speaker 1: the case to not fire Jed Hoyer is look at
16:05
Speaker 1: the pitching development. This has completely been a one to
16:08
Speaker 1: eighty from you know, the theo Epstein regime, right, and
16:12
Speaker 1: you have to they can hang their head on that.
16:15
Speaker 1: So far. If you move Justin Steele, you get a haul, right.
16:20
Speaker 1: How you use that Hall is what I would be
16:23
Speaker 1: more interested in than saying, look at all these fancy prospects, right, Yeah,
16:28
Speaker 1: that's a it's a different story. I'm just saying like
16:32
Speaker 1: that's I don't think it'll happen, but like these are
16:36
Speaker 1: the types of things that have to come up when
16:38
Speaker 1: when they're in this situation, is a shake up needed.
16:42
Speaker 1: You need to change the mix because they can't take
16:45
Speaker 1: big steps back to where twenty twenty five is like
16:48
Speaker 1: another step up year where it's like, Okay, let's let's
16:51
Speaker 1: see if we can get close to eighty wins. Yeah,
16:55
Speaker 1: I mean, and like you said, like the previous answer,
16:58
Speaker 1: I mean, Jed Hoyer is isn't I agree with you.
17:01
Speaker 1: I don't think he's going to be fired at the
17:02
Speaker 1: end of this season, but then then that final year
17:06
Speaker 1: becomes like really important. Twenty twenty five just becomes essential
17:12
Speaker 1: to winning. It's it's not, yeah, this isn't like a
17:17
Speaker 1: perfect roster to start training guys from. You know, like,
17:23
Speaker 1: this isn't this isn't this roster wasn't built to sell
17:26
Speaker 1: at the deadline. So if if you get creative, if
17:30
Speaker 1: you find ways to move guys and kind of ship
17:33
Speaker 1: guys out, but also bring some guys that can help
17:36
Speaker 1: this year in, I think I think that would be
17:39
Speaker 1: the most interesting for fans and and something that they
17:42
Speaker 1: could be like, Okay, I see it, Okay, this could
17:45
Speaker 1: maybe be maybe it's a slightly better, and then in
17:49
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five it's a lot better. That's hard. It's
17:52
Speaker 1: really hard to pull off. That's that's my biggest thing.
17:55
Speaker 1: It's like, you can't take huge steps back. How do
17:58
Speaker 1: you pull off a way to like kind of reshape
18:00
Speaker 1: the roster. It's Jed Hoyer Carter Hopkins in their Front
18:04
Speaker 1: Offices challenge. I don't think it's an easy thing to
18:07
Speaker 1: pull off. They're going to have to figure it. Figure
18:09
Speaker 1: it out. Patrick. Here's a question from C. Charles nineteen
18:15
Speaker 1: eighty three, and it kind of touches on where I
18:20
Speaker 1: was going. Could would they trade from the twenty six
18:23
Speaker 1: man roster to help the offense, end or bullpen? He says,
18:28
Speaker 1: Horton is close, Horton's hurt, so he's not as he's
18:33
Speaker 1: not as close as we think, and we don't really
18:35
Speaker 1: have a timeline there. They're being very like they always
18:38
Speaker 1: are with minor league injuries. Yeah, yeah, Ary Vague Brown,
18:42
Speaker 1: I think as a starter, yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that.
18:44
Speaker 1: Would they trade Asad or tie on from the rotation
18:47
Speaker 1: or one of the position players to fill other holes
18:49
Speaker 1: in the lineup or bullpen. This team needs a shake up.
18:52
Speaker 1: I kind of touched on this, Patrick, but I mean,
18:55
Speaker 1: let's get your opinion on Yeah, I think.
18:58
Speaker 2: They're more I think you're right to point out the
19:01
Speaker 2: justin Seal kind of thought exercise, like it's unlikely, but
19:07
Speaker 2: something we can't dismiss out of hand and something we'll
19:10
Speaker 2: certainly have on our radar. I think it's important to
19:15
Speaker 2: remember how Council operated with the Brewers, and it was
19:21
Speaker 2: kind of constantly thinking about things not black and white.
19:26
Speaker 2: Now you can make the case that the Cubs are
19:28
Speaker 2: big market team and should not have to think like
19:30
Speaker 2: the Brewers.
19:30
Speaker 1: But the idea would be is.
19:31
Speaker 2: There's only so many times on the calendar when teams
19:33
Speaker 2: are trading and like that too, right, Yeah, if they
19:40
Speaker 2: have four or five pitchers, like get healthy, like in
19:44
Speaker 2: mid to late July, Like do you move some of
19:49
Speaker 2: those guys, whether it's you know, Drew Smiley to partially
19:55
Speaker 2: clear that salary, get some of that money back so
19:58
Speaker 2: you can get for that.
20:00
Speaker 1: You know.
20:00
Speaker 2: I don't know how much all of this moves the needle,
20:03
Speaker 2: but whether it's a Tyson Miller, I don't know. Mark
20:09
Speaker 2: Later Junior, if he's held, Like, you gotta explore and
20:14
Speaker 2: see what people are willing to give up for that.
20:18
Speaker 2: I'm with you in this idea of like the Cubs
20:20
Speaker 2: don't need more a ball guys, they don't really need
20:23
Speaker 2: to rebalance their farm system. Is there a trade out
20:28
Speaker 2: there in the in a way that you know the
20:34
Speaker 2: Hayden Wiznessky Scott Frost trade a couple of years ago
20:37
Speaker 2: of just like, okay, we think this about this player,
20:41
Speaker 2: they need that right now in there? Well, can you
20:45
Speaker 2: kind of get some more near term major league talent?
20:50
Speaker 2: And so you know, ty On is a guy, as
20:53
Speaker 2: you know, who has at least a limited no trade protection.
21:00
Speaker 2: He's a really good pitcher. Is he moving the needle
21:03
Speaker 2: for a team that already has like three or four
21:08
Speaker 2: good starters? Like, is he going to start the first
21:12
Speaker 2: or second game of a playoff series for you? I
21:16
Speaker 2: don't know, Probably not right. So, like what are you
21:19
Speaker 2: getting for a guy who may be more like depth
21:23
Speaker 2: on a division winner? And I'm not saying anything like
21:26
Speaker 2: he's definitely a guy you want on your team. He's dependable,
21:29
Speaker 2: he's professional, he's pitching really well. But you look at
21:35
Speaker 2: these numbers with these pitching and I know this is
21:38
Speaker 2: all knock on wood that we could chowpe at really
21:41
Speaker 2: today and they gives injury updates on like eight different pitchers.
21:44
Speaker 2: You know, they do have seemed to have a little
21:47
Speaker 2: bit of a relative surplus there. Can you kind of
21:51
Speaker 2: move some of that out and bring in different shapes
21:56
Speaker 2: of talent position player side, Really tough to see how
22:02
Speaker 2: that works other than Bellinger or maybe Nico. And you know,
22:11
Speaker 2: Nico is a guy you kind of built around. He's
22:14
Speaker 2: not a thumping offensive player. I'm not quite sure what
22:21
Speaker 2: you'd get for that. But all this stuff has to
22:25
Speaker 2: be on the table, right Like we're both kind of
22:28
Speaker 2: you know, we've been thinking about this so much. It'll
22:30
Speaker 2: be fascinating to see how they play it. And that
22:34
Speaker 2: leads into I've got one for us to hide it
22:38
Speaker 2: from WICKI Woo woo one. I don't know if that's
22:42
Speaker 2: Ronnie Woo's cousin or something, But assuming the Cubs missed
22:47
Speaker 2: the playoffs intel the deadline is the most likely scenario,
22:50
Speaker 2: Jed returns but has to make the playoffs in twenty
22:52
Speaker 2: twenty five to keep his job. Do you foresee a
22:55
Speaker 2: more aggressive offseason if those are the stakes?
23:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think we I think we kind of
23:04
Speaker 1: answered that first part right, like, yeah, I see it
23:07
Speaker 1: as I think we both agree that he's got another season,
23:13
Speaker 1: and I do agree the pressures on, the pressure has
23:17
Speaker 1: to be on. And yeah, what what does a more
23:20
Speaker 1: aggressive offseason look like for for Jed Hoyer? I mean
23:25
Speaker 1: it's a lot of what I mean, a lot of
23:28
Speaker 1: the trades that we're talking about now could be explored
23:30
Speaker 1: in the off season too. Right, maybe you have more
23:33
Speaker 1: teams willing to pay up if a team is willing
23:36
Speaker 1: to pay a ransom at the deadline. Sure you you
23:39
Speaker 1: you you jump at it, but but maybe you maybe
23:42
Speaker 1: there are more teams interested come the deadline, I mean,
23:45
Speaker 1: come the off season and you can make a move there.
23:48
Speaker 1: You know who what does an aggressive off season look like?
23:52
Speaker 1: Look like? Danny Jansen was a hot name, you know,
23:55
Speaker 1: a month ago, and then he went and had a
23:58
Speaker 1: disastrous June, and now, like, do you do you go
24:01
Speaker 1: out of your way to try and sign him and
24:03
Speaker 1: fix the catcher's spot. I don't know if that makes sense.
24:06
Speaker 1: Pete Alonso is is a very good ballplayer, Uh where
24:12
Speaker 1: does he play on this team? If? If you if
24:14
Speaker 1: Michael Bush is as good as he looks right now. Right,
24:17
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you don't like Pete Alonso is not
24:20
Speaker 1: an impactful bat, Like he hits a ton of home
24:23
Speaker 1: runs and the Cubs need that. Uh, I'm just not
24:27
Speaker 1: sure if that's the right fit for this team. If
24:30
Speaker 1: that's what the lawyer is going to look at and say, like,
24:32
Speaker 1: that's where I spend big A first baseman who you know,
24:37
Speaker 1: who knows how he ages? Uh, there's there's Willia Domas,
24:42
Speaker 1: He's he could you know, I think he's a very
24:47
Speaker 1: quality player. After that, you know, wan so To is
24:51
Speaker 1: the name. I don't know if he's leaving New York, right,
24:56
Speaker 1: I don't think he's leaving the Yankees. If he is,
25:00
Speaker 1: that's the guy you spend crazy money for. In my opinion,
25:04
Speaker 1: there will be questions about what happens when he gets paid.
25:07
Speaker 1: I get that that's going You're going to hear rumors
25:09
Speaker 1: about that because scouts, there are scouts that are wondering that.
25:13
Speaker 1: I I think that's a really hard thing to answer.
25:16
Speaker 1: I've seen him compete in a World Series and give
25:19
Speaker 1: his all and kind of you know, stand out when
25:22
Speaker 1: the Nationals won won the World Series. Uh, you know,
25:26
Speaker 1: as a. Was he nineteen at the time. Maybe maybe
25:29
Speaker 1: he was a little older when they were.
25:30
Speaker 2: He debuted, he was nineteen.
25:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, either way, he stood out. He was a super
25:36
Speaker 1: shart on the field and helped the team come back
25:40
Speaker 1: from the like the type of depths the Cubs are
25:42
Speaker 1: in right now and and and win a World Series.
25:46
Speaker 1: Uh Is He's the type of talent you risk it for.
25:50
Speaker 1: In my opinion, I don't know if Jed's going to
25:52
Speaker 1: have that opportunity to even do it because of the Yankees.
25:56
Speaker 1: I think the guy that makes the most sense is
25:58
Speaker 1: Alex Bregman. I worry about the age, I worry about
26:03
Speaker 1: the dip and power, but you know, you've got to
26:07
Speaker 1: be aggressive and you've got to take risks. You've kind
26:09
Speaker 1: of backed yourself into a corner here with that type
26:11
Speaker 1: of stuff. Other than that, it's a really good I
26:16
Speaker 1: believe it's a really good free agent pitching class. So
26:19
Speaker 1: that's so what gets back to what we were talking about,
26:23
Speaker 1: right Patrick, If you if you trade Justin Steele and
26:28
Speaker 1: you get a ton for him, now you go and
26:33
Speaker 1: you're able to get a bat via trade, do you
26:35
Speaker 1: go and spend on Max Freed?
26:38
Speaker 2: Uh?
26:39
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, Corbyn Burns. Yeah, hey, I guess what.
26:45
Speaker 1: I'm sure Craig Council has a good relationship with him
26:48
Speaker 1: and would love to have him on his team. So yeah,
26:51
Speaker 1: those are two names that I think make a ton
26:53
Speaker 1: of sense if you're moving a pitcher, uh, and that's
26:57
Speaker 1: where you want to spend And now you you've kind
26:59
Speaker 1: of reshuffled the deck. You know, we're speculating now and
27:04
Speaker 1: trying to get creative because this is this is what
27:07
Speaker 1: this season has led to. We're talking about the off
27:10
Speaker 1: season in July. But I do think it's worth thinking
27:15
Speaker 1: about that type of stuff too. Do they need a
27:17
Speaker 1: picture right now? No, they don't need a starting picture
27:21
Speaker 1: right now. Does that mean they shouldn't they shouldn't find
27:23
Speaker 1: ways Like if that's where the best where the money
27:26
Speaker 1: is best spent in the off season, maybe that's what
27:29
Speaker 1: they do. And then and then you can move from
27:32
Speaker 1: an area of depth an area of strength and and
27:35
Speaker 1: and try and fill the weaknesses via via trade. I
27:41
Speaker 1: think that could be a route. Uh. Well, we'll see
27:45
Speaker 1: where everything goes come come October, November, and and when
27:50
Speaker 1: we have a better idea of what what the direction is. Uh,
27:54
Speaker 1: but yeah, it is God Damn Patrick talking about talking
27:59
Speaker 1: about the offseason in July. I did not, except it's.
28:02
Speaker 3: Not even the fourth of and we're already trying to
28:05
Speaker 3: conjure up like trade scenarios and maybe go back out
28:08
Speaker 3: and sign you know this Boris guy who's probably you know,
28:13
Speaker 3: ticketed for another place already.
28:16
Speaker 4: H yeah, yeah, Okay, here's the here's a question. I
28:22
Speaker 4: I have something to say about this afterwards. But Bob
28:25
Speaker 4: Moore en V he asked, this team smells a lot
28:29
Speaker 4: like teams from the nineties when ownership tease fans with
28:32
Speaker 4: whips of player potential that never panned out. If you
28:35
Speaker 4: had to pick one sign that ownership was serious about
28:38
Speaker 4: winning the World Series, which would you pick?
28:43
Speaker 2: All right, Bob, well, I'm sign of I'm curious to
28:45
Speaker 2: hear your thoughts. I mean, the name Juan Soto jumped
28:48
Speaker 2: out to me. We've already kind of covered that, you know.
28:54
Speaker 2: I think the sign is having a payroll like the
29:02
Speaker 2: Yankees or Dodgers. Maybe not all the way up there,
29:04
Speaker 2: but a little closer there. And I think one of
29:07
Speaker 2: the frustrations is that the Cubs payroll, taking out the
29:11
Speaker 2: COVID dip years like, has increased from twenty sixteen, but
29:18
Speaker 2: it's been a lot more incremental, and you have teams
29:22
Speaker 2: like the Phillies all of a sudden kind of jumping,
29:25
Speaker 2: you know, towards you know, maybe a top four payroll
29:29
Speaker 2: instead of like the ninth payroll, or you know, before
29:32
Speaker 2: Peter Sidler died, the Padre is all of a sudden
29:36
Speaker 2: totally reimagining their business model. And that has not happened
29:43
Speaker 2: with the Cups. It's been very sensible, kind of within
29:49
Speaker 2: definitely not outside.
29:51
Speaker 1: The box.
29:53
Speaker 2: I think this ownership group is not bad in relation
29:58
Speaker 2: to some of their peers in the city. I think
30:01
Speaker 2: you look at Wrigley Field, the renovation, actually winning World Series.
30:07
Speaker 2: I think a lot of their hands off nature is
30:11
Speaker 2: good of just signing authorizing the council higher and not
30:17
Speaker 2: getting caught up in the emotions with David Ross or
30:21
Speaker 2: letting your president Baseball Operations trade away all these guys
30:26
Speaker 2: who you wind up sort of falling off a cliff like.
30:30
Speaker 2: I think those are good attributes, But to me, it
30:33
Speaker 2: always comes down to follow the money and side of
30:36
Speaker 2: the I'm curious here what you do say. You know,
30:40
Speaker 2: I love the nineties. I'm sure that short of conjured
30:43
Speaker 2: up some memories for you, like when you were a kid,
30:46
Speaker 2: you know, yelling at the WGN screen or you know,
30:51
Speaker 2: right Jersey or whatever.
30:54
Speaker 1: Right. Well, I have this theory that if it weren't
30:58
Speaker 1: for ninety eight, the nineties would be looked at as
31:01
Speaker 1: one of the worst decades of baseball for a franchise,
31:05
Speaker 1: like just complete you know, like just complete disinterest in
31:10
Speaker 1: that team. I love baseball. I fell in love with
31:13
Speaker 1: baseball at a young age. My dad took me to
31:15
Speaker 1: the ballpark a ton, So I watched that team. I
31:19
Speaker 1: watched that garbage that was my teenage years. I want
31:22
Speaker 1: they were bad. It was an awful product and and
31:25
Speaker 1: it made me cringe when I read that at first,
31:28
Speaker 1: and I was like, how how could you even compare
31:30
Speaker 1: this to the nineties. But honestly, watching this team on
31:34
Speaker 1: a day to day basis now like I've been, you know,
31:37
Speaker 1: like it's been hard to watch, and it's been like
31:40
Speaker 1: you want to disengage, you want to you want to
31:44
Speaker 1: just be Like I got to tweet the other day
31:47
Speaker 1: about something like bring on Bear season, and I was like,
31:50
Speaker 1: this is how bad it's gotten. Yeah, people think the
31:53
Speaker 1: Bears are going to save their you know, sports enjoyment,
31:57
Speaker 1: Like that's how bad it is, Like you're gonna to
32:00
Speaker 1: go to the Bears, they won't hurt you, Like that's
32:03
Speaker 1: that's dangerous mentality. Like Chicago sports fans are in dangerous
32:08
Speaker 1: territory here. I mean just looking at these standings. Fourth place,
32:12
Speaker 1: fourth place, fourth place, fourth place, fifth place, oh, third
32:15
Speaker 1: place in nineteen ninety five, when when there were one
32:18
Speaker 1: hundred and forty four games played, fourth place, fifth place,
32:22
Speaker 1: ninety eight, second place, sixth place in ninety nine with
32:25
Speaker 1: sixty seven wins. That's how they close out the the
32:28
Speaker 1: decade of the nineties. It was it was a bad decade,
32:32
Speaker 1: Like I get it. There was it Jose Guzman instead
32:36
Speaker 1: of Greg Maddox. That that's where some of that event.
32:41
Speaker 1: There's there's the Jeff Blausser signing in the nineties, you know,
32:46
Speaker 1: running back that ninety eight team and bringing back that core,
32:50
Speaker 1: which was I mean just bringing like no adding, no
32:53
Speaker 1: big free agents when you have like the some young talent,
32:57
Speaker 1: and it was just like typical, like this is what
32:59
Speaker 1: they gonna do. They're gonna try and sell us that
33:02
Speaker 1: this team can bounce back after and and and repeat
33:06
Speaker 1: after like a amazing ninety win season that nobody expected.
33:11
Speaker 1: Uh it's I Like I said, at first, I thought,
33:16
Speaker 1: how dare that person compare the nineties to this? But
33:19
Speaker 1: this season does feel like that. I don't think you've
33:23
Speaker 1: been sold a bill of goods. I do believe there's
33:26
Speaker 1: there's talent on this team, Like I just don't like
33:32
Speaker 1: they're not producing and I believe that they're not far off.
33:37
Speaker 1: And I'm not not saying this season. I'm just saying,
33:39
Speaker 1: you add the right players to this group, a couple
33:42
Speaker 1: pieces here and there, and this is a winning team.
33:47
Speaker 1: We've said it like a ton over the last couple
33:49
Speaker 1: of weeks, the last couple episodes. But you add a
33:52
Speaker 1: big bat, a fearsome bat, in the middle of this lineup,
33:55
Speaker 1: and I think it changes a lot of things. It
33:56
Speaker 1: takes a lot of pressure off guys, and everyone else
33:58
Speaker 1: kind of is able to produce, and those those runners
34:03
Speaker 1: that are being left on base are driven in and
34:05
Speaker 1: things like that. But it's it is scary that fans
34:09
Speaker 1: are thinking of the nineties while watching this team. It
34:12
Speaker 1: is a bad situation for everyone involved, fans especially. I
34:17
Speaker 1: don't envy the way fans feel right now because it's
34:22
Speaker 1: Patrick and I have been talking about it, but I love.
34:25
Speaker 2: It therapy sessions for your repressed childhood memories. Well didn't
34:30
Speaker 2: I put this question at the end the whole episode
34:33
Speaker 2: of in the nineties.
34:35
Speaker 1: So there's you know we're at we're doing this again, Patrick,
34:39
Speaker 1: where we have to go big picture, where we have
34:42
Speaker 1: to shift our thinking. And it's not like I love
34:44
Speaker 1: writing about games. And my biggest frustration from like, we
34:49
Speaker 1: didn't have access in twenty twenty twenty twenty one, we
34:52
Speaker 1: had very little access and it was hard to write
34:54
Speaker 1: about games and the team stunk, and like last year,
34:57
Speaker 1: finally it was like, oh, we get to write about games,
35:00
Speaker 1: and then the beginning of this year is like, oh
35:01
Speaker 1: I can I can do some analysis on games. Nope,
35:04
Speaker 1: out the window. Now like the rest of the season,
35:07
Speaker 1: it's like, what am I supposed to I'm not writing
35:09
Speaker 1: about a game. I gotta we gotta do big picture
35:11
Speaker 1: and profiles. And that's that's because of what this team
35:16
Speaker 1: is doing on the field. It's not worth breaking down
35:18
Speaker 1: a game because why does that matter win or lose
35:22
Speaker 1: right now? Until they prove show us otherwise, it just
35:24
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. You have to you have to produce, you
35:27
Speaker 1: have to be in contention for those games to matter,
35:29
Speaker 1: and they haven't done it the nineties.
35:33
Speaker 2: Man, Come on, Yeah, I'm glad we got that off
35:36
Speaker 2: our chests. You can share, share, we can do a
35:39
Speaker 2: story time with the hot Ave. Maybe that'd be one
35:44
Speaker 2: of our running features. But I think you made I
35:48
Speaker 2: think you made a good good That was a good
35:50
Speaker 2: historical perspective that I think it was good to hear.
35:54
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean I wish it could send you
35:59
Speaker 1: all on a more positive note into your July fourth
36:02
Speaker 1: and enjoy your holiday weekend.
36:04
Speaker 2: Uh.
36:05
Speaker 1: If you're a Cubs fan, it's you know, if you
36:08
Speaker 1: want to enjoy things, I would say, avoid the Cubs
36:10
Speaker 1: because it's just yeah, go to a barbecue like the beach, go.
36:14
Speaker 2: To the park, hanging out with your friends and family.
36:16
Speaker 1: You know. Check this.
36:18
Speaker 2: I mean, regular is still a great place to go.
36:20
Speaker 2: I'm sure for the July they're gonna have a huge
36:23
Speaker 2: crowd a lot of Phillies fans. But otherwise, yeah, don't
36:29
Speaker 2: don't don't.
36:30
Speaker 1: Get too worked up right now, right right, try and
36:32
Speaker 1: enjoy your life in other ways. Thanks so much for listening.
36:37
Speaker 1: This is North Side Territory Foul Territories Cubs Podcast. Uh,
36:41
Speaker 1: we make sure to rate, review, subscribe to all that
36:45
Speaker 1: fun stuff for our podcast. We truly appreciate you guys listening.
36:49
Speaker 1: Thank you for sending in all those questions and and
36:52
Speaker 1: and making us go through this process and think about
36:55
Speaker 1: things in a different way. I love these episodes. It's
36:58
Speaker 1: fun to get riled up up and and and feel
37:01
Speaker 1: the fans' energy because I mean, you guys deserved event.
37:04
Speaker 1: It's it's a frustrating group to watch right now, so
37:07
Speaker 1: it's very fair to have these complaints and and and
37:11
Speaker 1: questions and and and just confusion about how this happened
37:14
Speaker 1: and where it's going. Uh, thanks so much for listening.
37:17
Speaker 1: Make sure to read Patrick in my work at the Athletic.
37:19
Speaker 1: We'll be back at you next week. Thanks so much
37:22
Speaker 1: for listening to pick it