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Discovering Bitcoin with Leon · Discovering Bitcoin

• 0:01
  I see the world through an entirely different lens.
• 0:06
  It doesn't just give you confidence, but it gives you
• 0:08
  hope. Take like we're.
• 0:11
  Squandering our energy, our life force.
• 0:14
  So Bitcoin is changing that for me.
• 0:17
  It's like it's healing energy. It gives you a kind of of a
• 0:23
  stand feeling right well travel hole goes deep and deep and deep
• 0:29
  in the immortal works of the doors.
• 0:32
  The time to hesitate us through discovering.
• 1:00
  What's that? A man.
• 1:03
  DJ Hello. Hello.
• 1:04
  Thank you for having me. Your avatar suggests that you
• 1:09
  are the professional. Not our professional, but the
• 1:13
  professional. Sort of like genre know.
• 1:20
  Yeah, you got me. I'm basically the professional
• 1:26
  serial hitman and I tried to not only I try, I'm after the Fiat
• 1:33
  system, after the bankers and I take him down 1 by 1.
• 1:39
  To be honest, I'm not John Renault.
• 1:41
  I only took his appearance like a mask one would say, but he's
• 1:49
  fine with it. I asked him if I could borrow
• 1:52
  his face and he's he's on our side with us.
• 1:56
  That's that's what he told me. I dig, I dig.
• 2:00
  Well, I mean, look, if he's got Yep, we're kind of one step away
• 2:05
  from Natalie Portman at this point.
• 2:06
  And I know, you know, she was way younger and this is super
• 2:11
  inappropriate given the context of the film itself.
• 2:13
  But I mean, you know, Queen Amidala will always have a
• 2:17
  special place in my heart. And and that Dior ad that she
• 2:22
  used to do Fuck. Anyway, we digress already.
• 2:27
  Yeah, but it's, it's so funny that you mention it because we
• 2:31
  both get to know each other over Noster and you were talking
• 2:35
  about my Noster profile pic and it's such a weird coincidence.
• 2:41
  I I wouldn't even say coincidence, but when I started
• 2:45
  with Noster only that day I, I watched watched the movie Leon
• 2:51
  the professional on the first time and and it hit me.
• 2:53
  It really, really hit me and yes, yes, and I, I can't even
• 2:59
  tell. I mean, there's, there's not
• 3:01
  this much connection with the character, with the movie and,
• 3:05
  and what I'm, I'm talking about on Oster.
• 3:08
  What, what the topics I dive into on Oster, you don't have
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  like these, these connection to the movie.
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  But still, I was like inclined, OK, I want to have this
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  anonymous identity on Oster. I don't want to go with my with
• 3:28
  the name that was given to me by my by my real parents.
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  So as I already told, that took on that mask and, and yeah, I
• 3:38
  started writing with it, but I never had in mind using it as a
• 3:43
  funnel for for my thoughts or whatever.
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  I just started monster and so many people showed up and so
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  many connections were made over there.
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  And I'm until this day, I'm, I'm blown away by by this like
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  genuine interaction, all the energy in this place.
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  It's it's overwhelming. It's it's a completely different
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  vibe to absolutely. Platform.
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  Really. And I feel like I'm sort of
• 4:16
  being a bit lazy only interacting with the protocol
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  from a social media kind of standpoint.
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  I mean, there are, I've used the, the publishing elements of
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  it, which incorporate things like highlighter and stuff,
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  obviously, but I'm publishing through the, the primal instance
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  mostly. But you know, just where that
• 4:42
  protocol can go and what it can do beyond just, you know, a, a
• 4:48
  fucking social media feed is so cool and so hopeful.
• 4:54
  Like it's another, it's another thing to make you feel like
• 4:59
  we're going in the right direction, you know?
• 5:01
  Yeah, it's a, it's a whole nother rabbit hole.
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  I mean all the technical possibilities that are being
• 5:10
  realised, but I'm also only scratching on the surface.
• 5:14
  The main thing, I'm only using it as a yeah, let's let's call
• 5:18
  it social media application. But everything around at all
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  like these. You have coin join services
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  where they use Noster as the communication protocol.
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  Then you also have like this marketplace, plebeian market
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  where where one of my friend is selling, selling services and
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  such. And you can all do this at this
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  one place. We, we have this one place where
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  where everything's possible, where, where I think the sky is
• 5:48
  only the limit. I'm not the technical person.
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  I'm, I'm not as as well well versed with the, with the
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  insurance and outs of, of programming and, and the
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  computers, but I admire it and I, I try as much as I can to
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  dive into it and, and use these tools to, to empower myself and
• 6:15
  yeah. Yeah, well, as you said the
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  other day, the other week, I can't remember, it was the the
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  Mises quote. You know, many who are
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  self-taught far excel the doctors, masters and bachelors
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  of the most renowned universities and you captioned
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  it. Autodidacts unite and that's
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  what I get from Bitcoiners and from folks on nostrils that
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  they're all autodidacts. They're such intensely curious
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  people and they may or may not have a a technical proficiency
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  doesn't matter because you can just interact with the networks
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  and and make of them what you want.
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  You can, you can just do things right.
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  That's basically the spirit behind it.
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  And for me it was, it was always like this, even when I, I didn't
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  know about Bitcoin. And I always had this like urge
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  to get things to know from my own perspective, You know, for
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  example, I'm, I'm playing the piano, but I never took, took
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  any lessons because it didn't feel right to me.
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  I, I was very, very interested in in music and and playing
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  piano, but I, I, I never learned like the, the, the general
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  system of how to play notes and and reading notes.
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  And until this day, I'm not able to read notes and play play
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  after them, play by sheet music. But I kind of I would stay
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  invented my own system, how to interact with the piano, how to
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  play it and and even how to like I have my own little
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  compositions and it it feels so, so much more natural to to have
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  your your own own approach to just start with the with start
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  at 0 and you, you, you go further and further without like
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  any without like any guidance, probably.
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  And that's only one example. I have so many, so many other
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  areas in my life where even when when I got guidance, even when,
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  when, when I probably had a teacher something, sometimes
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  it's, it would help me. So yeah, that's, that's
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  basically it why I why I wanted to share then.
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  And you, you already struck a point.
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  I see it in, in many people almost there, especially with
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  the tech technicalities with, with, with IT, with coding, when
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  you just just learned it on the fly and so, so interesting.
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  And also very, yeah, it's, it's, it's a great, it's a great thing
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  to look at. It's very, very nice.
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  That when you have a like, a teacher can kind of ground you
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  and be. Most definitely.
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  Like you grant you in the principles and the foundations
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  and it's and it can be useful, but if you are the type of
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  person that yeah, is like prefers to kind of figure it out
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  on your own. If you come back around and you
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  think, well, I'd better go to a teacher just to sort of, I don't
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  know, get the the grounding. Sometimes that can can go the
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  other way. I, I remember going through like
• 9:51
  my second degree and my supervisor was like kind of
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  commenting on the my, my writing style and I remember thinking
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  like noted, but I'm going to ignore that because like I don't
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  want to write dry, humorless, you know, non, non flowing kind
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  of prose. It was, you know, anyway, so
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  you're you're in good company. Is is kind of my point with
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  regards to being self-taught, because I'm pretty sure, if I
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  remember correctly, Prince, the musician, the late, great
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  musician, he's self-taught and he could play just about
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  everything incredibly well. And and even Paul McCartney, man
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  from The Beatles, he's pretty sure he didn't take any lessons.
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  So it's like all the best people, man are and just going
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  out and doing things. There's like vibe coding now and
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  before we just have vibe songwriting or or whatever it
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  was vibe playing the guitar. That's a great framing.
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  I really, really like it. It's it's a wide learning, I'd
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  say. And it's really, yeah, it's
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  really inspiring. For example, you mentioned
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  Prince and Paul McCartney. It's really inspiring to look at
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  these people. But going back to another point
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  about auto detective learning and acquiring skills, there's
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  this element of, of yourself in it, right?
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  It's like something within, within your, within the depth of
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  you that wants to experience this world in an innocent way,
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  in an, in a way which has not been been touched before without
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  any, any outside interference. And you're, you're basically
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  completely right that maybe if you take a teacher, maybe if you
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  take a course, you're probably going to learn things a little
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  faster. That's, that's maybe the thing
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  you maybe, maybe there's some, some connections in your brain,
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  whether, whether synapses say click and, and you, you, you
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  know it in an instant. And if you try to, to learn
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  things on your own, if you do all the steps by yourself, it
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  might take a lot longer. But from what I've learned, it's
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  that's the things you learn. They are more connected to
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  yourself and you don't easily forget them as much.
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  For example, when when I went to uni and I had to prepare myself
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  for an exam, I was doing economics.
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  Maybe there we have a little connection to to Bitcoin and all
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  the stuff behind it. But there were many things I had
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  basically 0 interest in, and there were also many things I
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  thought were wrong in the way they were taught.
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  But to pass the exams and to get good grades, I had to, yeah,
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  follow what they were teaching me and reproduce it.
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  And I did that and it it worked out.
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  But many of these things I didn't incorporate in my in my
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  mind and in my, yeah, let's say what I had around me.
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  So basically I lost them pretty pretty soon afterwards.
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  And. If you do it by us exactly,
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  exactly. It didn't anchor at all.
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  And it's in my, in my opinion, it's, it's, it's quite useless,
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  Not at all. Some things stay, but say like
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  80% of it is gone in, in an instant.
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  You, you have your exam, you put, put in the, the answers to
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  the questions. And after one week, you don't
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  remember like 80% of the things you were, you were trying to
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  remember for the, for the, for the test.
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  So yeah, as, as anyone could tell, I'm a big, I'm a big fan
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  of, of teaching yourself. I'm a big auto direct enjoyer,
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  as one would say. And I can only recommend
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  everyone to try it out as well. You, you are more powerful than
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  you might think. Even I was able to learn a
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  piano. I was able to learn the guitar
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  and I was able to understand not understand it completely, but to
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  an extent understand Bitcoin all by myself.
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  So I can only encourage everyone to to try doing their own path
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  and following. And this is 11 very important
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  thing to follow their intuition. I think, I think we should, I
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  think we should, should dive, dive into that, that interesting
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  thing, the intuition, right? I, I, I think so.
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  I mean, I'll, I'll one, one of the things I learnt very early
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  on from my uncle who's a big reader, kind of instilled that
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  in me was that it's not enough to just read the book, you know,
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  or whatever it is that you're learning.
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  But let's just take the book, for instance.
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  It's not enough to just read the book.
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  It has to be internalized. It has to percolate, it has to
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  be digested or, you know, percolate whatever.
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  And then you have to go out into the world and be mindful of ways
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  that it might apply, you know, and, and, and and it's not to
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  say that you have to be constantly top of mind.
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  Like how does this fit in with XY situation or context?
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  It's more about like when it crops up and then you get thrown
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  back to a memory from reading that book or whatever.
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  How can some of those lessons, whatever they are, whether it's
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  fiction or non fiction, how can that actually apply in a given
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  situation? You know, because you can just
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  learn, you know, rich dad, poor dad, you can read that book, but
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  unless you go out and actually apply some of the lessons that
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  are in there, it's going to be fairly redundant.
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  And it's the same with, you know, reading like, fuck, I
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  don't know any anything like Steiner or whatever.
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  Like, again, you have to, you have to sort of almost let it
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  move through you and then I guess emerge when it's required
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  or whatever. Yeah.
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  And it's, it's not enough to just be an autodirect and to
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  just voraciously consume stuff, consuming content.
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  You kind of. You still have to be deliberate
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  and mindful and wilful in how you actually can consume that
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  stuff and then apply it later on.
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  And as you say, a lot of that comes down to effectively
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  tapping into intuition as a as a source of inspiration.
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  Absolutely, man. And as you were mentioning,
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  reading books, fiction, for example, this is maybe one of
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  the sources for me that brought me back to my intuition.
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  I mean, every everyone got got their intuition, but I have this
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  little conspiracy that's the outside world.
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  And if there's such a thing as society that this society tries
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  to get us disconnected from this thing, which I call intuition.
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  And I only recently found back my my connection to it.
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  So it's it's very, very important to me right now.
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  But going back to the topic of reading, reading a book, for
• 17:59
  example, I don't know if you've read it, but it's, it's quite a
• 18:02
  famous book. It's Siddhartha by Hermann
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  Hessell. Do you know that one can't?
• 18:08
  Say that I do. I'm sorry.
• 18:09
  Yeah. No, you should definitely read
• 18:12
  it. It's very, very interesting and
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  it's also quite beautiful. Beautifully written and what I
• 18:19
  learned only through this book is you can, you can read things
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  multiple times and you'll still find something new within it.
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  You maybe you read, you read this book one time and you, you
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  are an all of it. You admire the text and, and
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  what it gave to you and, and what I initially had.
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  I read it the first time when I was 16, I'd say.
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  And at that time I was like, yeah, OK, I'm reading a book.
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  I'm consuming it maybe as you already framed it.
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  And then I go on and then and I find the next thing to consume
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  and, and the next thing. And there's always something,
• 19:02
  something coming afterwards and, and always more to get, and
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  there's something, something with it.
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  I mean, there's something right about it.
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  You can always learn more. And there's so many things to,
• 19:15
  to see and, and to get get your head around.
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  But the, the, the, the, the thing that struck me, I found
• 19:24
  this book sitting on my bookshelf and it kind of, kind
• 19:28
  of might sound weird to most of of the listeners now, but it
• 19:32
  kind of spoke to me to pick it back up again, even though I've
• 19:34
  read it once and twice already. And normally I wouldn't do it
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  because I'd tell myself, why should I read this book again?
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  I already know its contents. I, I, I know what it's, it's
• 19:46
  about. I know what it's telling me.
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  But I, yeah, followed this thing, this intuition that told
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  me you have to pick it up again. You have to read it.
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  And I did it and it blew me away.
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  And in so many different ways. It didn't before when I was
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  younger when I read it but and it gave me so.
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  So many new things to, to look at so many perspectives brought
• 20:07
  tears to my eyes just by reading this book.
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  And it's just one part of it, but I think it's, it's a great
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  example for, for this thing I call not even I, I think many,
• 20:21
  many people might know what I'm talking about.
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  But this intuition, there's like inner, I wouldn't call it voice,
• 20:28
  but it's like a, a deep felt urge.
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  Like, like, like some, some inner guidance, some, some, some
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  higher intelligence, intelligence inside you that
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  kind of know, knows better what, what, what you, what, what, what
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  you have to do, what you're, what it's all about and, and
• 20:51
  stuff like that. Maybe I'm rambling in all all
• 20:53
  all kind of weird directions. No, it's it's an impulse.
• 20:58
  Yes, yes, thank you. Thank you for clarifying it.
• 21:00
  Yeah, I feel. Like it's an impulse and people
• 21:02
  ignore it or acknowledge it. You know, they ignore it to
• 21:07
  their detriment. They acknowledge it ultimately
• 21:11
  to, to their benefit. I think you know, the, the
• 21:15
  impulse, for instance, that sensation that, that sort of, I
• 21:27
  guess it's like an intuition. Maybe it, it intuition is for
• 21:31
  me, it's kind of like this thing that you've, you've, it comes up
• 21:35
  as it arises first as a feeling and then so it's a percept.
• 21:41
  You perceive it and you may not have a word or a term to label
• 21:46
  it. So you can't convert it from a
• 21:48
  percept into a concept. And that's when you either get
• 21:53
  bored and move on, ignore it, or you work put the work in to find
• 22:05
  what that term is. And, and, and, and as soon as
• 22:09
  you do label it, I mean, that can be good or bad, good or good
• 22:13
  or bad. But ultimately you can then
• 22:16
  begin to unpack it and unravel what that feeling actually is.
• 22:21
  And you can begin to cognize it and, and yeah, convert it into
• 22:26
  a, into a concept so that you can actually be cognizant of it
• 22:29
  and, and begin to understand it at at a deeper level.
• 22:34
  So like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I've just written down that
• 22:38
  Herman Hasser book. I'm surprised that I haven't
• 22:41
  actually come across that yet, which is more for me.
• 22:45
  But I, I do have to be a bit trying, trying to be disciplined
• 22:51
  on this pod. And it's very difficult because
• 22:53
  we've just had the last two episodes or whatever it was of
• 22:57
  just like long 2 hour rambles about food and wine and music
• 23:02
  and stuff. So I'm going to just quickly do
• 23:05
  my best. Apologies to all the listeners.
• 23:06
  My impulse, my intuition is telling me.
• 23:09
  Quick break just to say, if you're enjoying the show and
• 23:12
  digging what you hear, please consider supporting discovering
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• 23:47
  Thank you for listening and thank you for your support.
• 23:51
  How did you discover Bitcoin? Great question man.
• 23:57
  I tried to not not bring it on another tangent and I tried to
• 24:01
  answer. I love the.
• 24:01
  Tangents. I want to, but I just got to ask
• 24:03
  that question first. The whole point.
• 24:06
  Yeah, yeah. How did I discover Bitcoin?
• 24:09
  I'm, I'm kind of still discovering it, I would say, but
• 24:12
  the first time I really got in contact with it was around 2021,
• 24:19
  right in the depths of COVID hysteria, COVID-19 84.
• 24:27
  I think you might have heard it, heard about it before, but I had
• 24:32
  a lot of yeah, yeah, that was something, but I can't remember
• 24:36
  it as much. Maybe it's better.
• 24:40
  But anyways, I had had a lot of time, free time around myself
• 24:47
  and I was already a little bit into into finance, like the
• 24:53
  general Fiat world, yeah, investing into ETFs, buying
• 24:59
  stocks and stuff like that. But I always had this, this
• 25:04
  feeling there that there something wasn't right within
• 25:07
  the system. It was like as we were talking
• 25:10
  earlier, exactly it was it was like an impulse and an intuition
• 25:14
  that that something isn't, isn't right, Something something
• 25:18
  doesn't quite fit. But I couldn't couldn't
• 25:22
  verbalize it and I couldn't quite grasp it at what stage
• 25:27
  something might be wrong. But I've always like from from a
• 25:30
  young age, I had like this, this feeling that that something felt
• 25:34
  fell off. Like, yeah, the idea of
• 25:38
  inflation, for example, being good for the economy, yeah, you
• 25:42
  devalues people's people's spending power.
• 25:47
  But that is, that is good for, for whatever the greater good
• 25:50
  the economy needs it. I took it in and I, I, I, I told
• 25:56
  myself, yeah, OK, if everyone is telling that that must be, be
• 25:59
  the truth, they may be, you know it better than me.
• 26:02
  So I kind of in this act, I kind of dismissed my initial
• 26:06
  intuition and adopted the general narrative as one would
• 26:11
  say. But this feeling that, that
• 26:15
  something isn't wrong, it, it was in within me still all the
• 26:19
  time. So, yeah, going back to 2021
• 26:23
  when I had all this time free time on my hands and I didn't
• 26:31
  really know what to do with it. I stumbled on Bitcoin and I, I
• 26:34
  can't actually tell you the first impulse with it.
• 26:39
  I, I, I really don't quite remember what it was.
• 26:42
  It it just came, it just came into my life.
• 26:46
  And I also didn't start investing in ship coins as one
• 26:52
  would say in the beginning. In the beginning I only bought
• 26:57
  Bitcoin and I didn't quite get it in the full picture.
• 27:03
  I just understood, OK, we have this like network that is
• 27:09
  peer-to-peer like an alternative monetary system and and that
• 27:15
  that spoke to me deeply and, and even though I, I didn't get the
• 27:19
  insurance and out of this how it's how it works, how, how the
• 27:23
  connection behind is how, how's the technology.
• 27:26
  What is cryptography? I didn't understand it at that
• 27:29
  time, but it felt right. It it really felt there was like
• 27:35
  an an energy behind it to me that was that just felt right.
• 27:41
  So I followed this impulse and told myself, OK, let's let's,
• 27:46
  let's get into it. Let's let's try it out.
• 27:49
  Let's, let's use it. So I started started buying some
• 27:52
  Bitcoin and yeah, sadly I was enamoured by many, yeah, flashy
• 28:01
  things that are telling you they are better than Bitcoin.
• 28:06
  They are the new Bitcoin. There are so much more.
• 28:09
  They are the world computer, many, many things.
• 28:13
  And to be honest, I've lost, I've lost a shit ton of money on
• 28:16
  these things. It was quite painful.
• 28:21
  I think I might I might have like half a Bitcoin more to this
• 28:25
  day if I didn't indulge in these other currencies.
• 28:29
  So that was a very painful lesson.
• 28:32
  I think you might remember the time around FTX crash and even
• 28:39
  before that, Luna was one of the coins I invested heavily in and
• 28:48
  I lost so much on that. So yeah, that that was that was
• 28:52
  really painful. And that was something I didn't
• 28:57
  talk about much. I felt ashamed to be honest,
• 29:01
  because at that time when Luna blew up, I already understood
• 29:06
  Bitcoin to the extent that as as like some someone like Michael
• 29:12
  Saylor would say that there is no second best, that Bitcoin is
• 29:15
  the signal and everything else in this crypto space is the
• 29:17
  noise. But it was still trying to yeah,
• 29:21
  maybe you can battle these coins and improve the amount of
• 29:26
  increase the amount of Bitcoin. You can trade it in and out.
• 29:29
  And it was, it was some kind of hybrid and I was punished
• 29:34
  immensely with it. And I'm, I'm, I never talked
• 29:38
  about it much because I felt a lot of shame about it because at
• 29:43
  that time, as I already told, I should have known it better,
• 29:47
  right? I I should have done it better.
• 29:50
  But in the end, in the in the end, yeah, that's, that's
• 29:55
  always, always the case, right? But in the end, I'd say it's,
• 29:58
  it's humbled me. It really, really humbled me.
• 30:00
  And, and even though I wouldn't recommend anyone to gamble on
• 30:06
  shit coins or GO-100X long or whatever kind of stupidity one
• 30:12
  might do, I would never recommend it.
• 30:14
  But for me, it was a good experience.
• 30:16
  I'd say maybe I'm just, maybe I'm I'm just rationalizing it
• 30:21
  for me and I I'm trying to put it in the rises somehow.
• 30:25
  Yeah, Yeah, it kind of is that. But but still, I, I learned so
• 30:34
  much through the pain in it and it put me on the right track.
• 30:39
  Definitely not only in the sense of understanding that that
• 30:43
  Bitcoin, that there is no, no such thing as Bitcoin in this
• 30:48
  space, that it's, it's the only truth, yeah, the true idea out
• 30:53
  there. And that everything else tries
• 30:55
  to siphon the appeal of it off of it and, and tries to profit
• 31:00
  from it. I mean this, this, this learning
• 31:03
  I kind of already had. But even even more important, I
• 31:06
  was, I think I was getting really, let's say arrogant.
• 31:11
  I, I thought I, I had figured it out.
• 31:14
  I thought I, I could become rich.
• 31:16
  You know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't need to work anymore.
• 31:20
  I didn't, I could retire on my crypto gambling and such.
• 31:26
  You know, that was my mindset at that time.
• 31:29
  And it's, it's so ridiculous when I, when I look at that from
• 31:34
  from where I'm standing now. But it was, it was, it was a
• 31:37
  really good and humbling experience to, to be this
• 31:41
  arrogant and to be humbled by reality and to lose.
• 31:48
  Yeah, so much, so much of my of my savings, but but but still
• 31:54
  get back up and and and and and still follow the the signal
• 31:59
  which was Bitcoin and not not give up only because I I lost,
• 32:04
  lost a couple of of coins in these other projects.
• 32:08
  So I, I stayed the course and I decided to dive dive deeper into
• 32:14
  Bitcoin and yeah, start watching all the prominent YouTube and
• 32:22
  podcast yeah figures I'd say Michael Saylor, Natudel, the
• 32:32
  old, what Bitcoin did with Peter McCormack and such.
• 32:34
  So these were like the things I was like diving really deep into
• 32:39
  because, yeah, I think it was also like this a little bit of
• 32:43
  this, this pain, losing that much money and still, still
• 32:47
  having this, this opportunity around me.
• 32:54
  Yeah. I.
• 32:55
  Think, you know, you learnt through pain, like you got to
• 33:00
  touch the stove, right? And a lot of people and no
• 33:04
  matter how many times you know, Bitcoiners or whatever the, you
• 33:12
  know, whatever the context is, if you're, you're a 2 year old
• 33:14
  and you're heading over to the fire and you know, dad is like,
• 33:17
  dude, chill out. Stop, Don't walk near the fire
• 33:22
  like you're going to, you're going to learn.
• 33:27
  You've got to, I mean, what's that phrase trying to think?
• 33:30
  I think it's a Greek phrase, Pathamata mathemata, which is
• 33:34
  learning through our struggles or learning through pain,
• 33:37
  basically. And so it's, it's, it's just a,
• 33:39
  it's a human thing. And I mean, your ego got the
• 33:41
  better of you. And what's interesting is that
• 33:44
  you almost had coherence. You know, when you like
• 33:48
  discovered Bitcoin and followed that impulse, that intuition,
• 33:52
  and then you got out of alignment, you got out of
• 33:54
  coherence, you were incoherent. And you know, you, it's just,
• 33:59
  you know, it, it didn't work out so good.
• 34:01
  And, and that's OK because now, you know, and you're kind of on
• 34:08
  the other side of that and it's, it's like you could have doubled
• 34:13
  down. There's a lot of Arsoles out
• 34:14
  there that would have just doubled down.
• 34:16
  Just, I don't know, post ad hoc rationalized it to no, no, no,
• 34:20
  like it just got unlucky, man. And you know you could still be
• 34:23
  in the in the. Gambler's fallacy, right?
• 34:24
  Yeah, the gambler's fallacy. You got to win it all back,
• 34:27
  right? That's, that's where many, many
• 34:30
  people go, I think. And, and still I, I think it's
• 34:33
  maybe, yeah, I've, I've come from this like financial
• 34:37
  perspective to Bitcoin, right. And maybe that's, that's,
• 34:41
  that's, I wouldn't call it a trap, but it's, it's dangerous
• 34:45
  to approach it from this perspective, even though this is
• 34:47
  like the the most popular starting point for people to get
• 34:51
  to know Bitcoin like number go up.
• 34:53
  That's what that's what makes people excited about it.
• 34:59
  But if you only look at Bitcoin from the perspective of number
• 35:03
  go up or what's in it for me, what can I earn?
• 35:06
  How can I become rich quick or whatever.
• 35:09
  I think, yeah, maybe it might work for some people and, and
• 35:14
  and and it did. Obviously many people became
• 35:17
  filthy rich with Bitcoin just by investing in in it or just by
• 35:21
  buying some some Bitcoin early or mining it and the very early
• 35:24
  days. But still for for me personally,
• 35:28
  it's it's so much more than just like possibility to increase my
• 35:35
  spending power or to have like safety when I become old of
• 35:41
  financial safety, financial stability, which are all great
• 35:44
  things. I don't want to dismiss it at
• 35:46
  all. But it's still maybe at least it
• 35:51
  was for me. This, this thing, I wasn't
• 35:54
  focused enough because I was still, I had in mind, I have to
• 35:58
  increase the number. I have to get more of it.
• 36:00
  Ah, let's, let's, let's chase it.
• 36:02
  And what I've learned is that, yeah, Bitcoin has, has even even
• 36:08
  more layers than than only these like financial pains or than
• 36:13
  increasing Fiat purchasing power.
• 36:15
  Like there's so much beneath it, like the network, the, the
• 36:19
  philosophy of the cypherpunks that, that brought this, this
• 36:24
  thing up. Like, like the, the, this kind
• 36:27
  of revolutionary thing that, that, that isn't within Bitcoin,
• 36:32
  that you, that, that, that you have this technology that says
• 36:37
  we have enough of this shit with Fiat, the basement.
• 36:40
  We have enough, enough of this shit with central planning in
• 36:43
  the economy through interest rates.
• 36:46
  We, we, we don't want to do this anymore.
• 36:48
  And we have this, this other new thing that it's that, that, that
• 36:54
  will, will will go against it. It goes against all the, the,
• 36:58
  the narratives and we stand behind it.
• 37:01
  And there's, it's such a powerful thing.
• 37:04
  And once I got behind this, this kind of philosophy, it's, I
• 37:09
  would say it's it, it, it made me stronger and didn't, didn't
• 37:14
  bring me into the mindset I already talked about into this
• 37:17
  gambler's fallacy where I was like, oh, I need to win it all
• 37:20
  back. I need to become rich or
• 37:21
  anything. But I, I, I kind of understand
• 37:24
  that's, that's what it's about. Maybe you can get rich.
• 37:28
  That's a good thing. But there's something even more
• 37:31
  important about it. And I've met, I've met some
• 37:35
  people who kind of think, think the same We have in Germany.
• 37:41
  We have like this great meet up culture.
• 37:44
  I don't know if you're familiar with that, but it's called Einen
• 37:48
  Swansea. It's 21 in, in German.
• 37:52
  And we have like in, in every major city in in Germany, even
• 37:57
  even even some small villages have their own Einen Swansea
• 38:01
  meet up. And it was, it was really good
• 38:04
  to to get out there to, to meet like minded people, talk about
• 38:08
  Bitcoin, connect about these topics.
• 38:11
  And I got to know many interesting and, and, and, and
• 38:14
  very, yeah, very nice people. Some of them I, I already call
• 38:18
  my friends and to share these ideas to not only write on
• 38:25
  Twitter at that time about, yeah, this is the revolution,
• 38:29
  but to really have like these conversations about it.
• 38:32
  And it also helped me to understand it even better to see
• 38:39
  from from another perspective. So I can only encourage courage
• 38:43
  you if you're listening to this, and maybe you're not from
• 38:47
  Germany, but there are many Bitcoin meetups around the
• 38:50
  world. Look it up.
• 38:53
  What's what's in your area. Try to try to meet the people
• 38:56
  that are around you. And it's, it's so, so
• 39:00
  fascinating to to connect with other other like minded people
• 39:05
  about this topic. It was so eye opening for me to
• 39:09
  also had this connection right, because when I there's an
• 39:13
  there's an important point when I started to understand Bitcoin,
• 39:18
  I had this this urge like even like this zealousy.
• 39:23
  I'd even say where I had most of you should know it, but where I
• 39:29
  had this urge to convince everyone around me that Bitcoin
• 39:33
  is the solution to everything to to world hunger to Bitcoin is
• 39:39
  will will will solve everything. You know it's a meme.
• 39:42
  But when you when you take your first sip of this cup of wisdom,
• 39:48
  or as you might call it, you, you become a bit of a lunatic.
• 39:53
  At least that's what it what it was for me and I, I was talking
• 39:57
  to to this about this topic to all of my friends, my family,
• 40:00
  everyone around me. You check it out.
• 40:03
  It's it's it's so important. You need to.
• 40:06
  To get into this, it was like some someone would call it a
• 40:10
  religious zealot zealotry or, or something like that.
• 40:15
  And as you might, as you might think, nobody was interested in
• 40:21
  the things I was talking about. They were thinking I was going
• 40:24
  nuts. And some of them, even some of
• 40:31
  my, yeah, I kind of lost, lost some, some friends about it,
• 40:34
  which which is kind of sad because in the end I was, I was
• 40:39
  very pushy about it. I tried to push everyone in
• 40:42
  Bitcoin and it's, it's not how it works, right?
• 40:44
  It's, it's like as I, as I was talking about auto deductive
• 40:48
  learning. And then I put myself into the,
• 40:51
  into the steps of some bigger teacher or advisor.
• 40:54
  And yeah, you have to do this. It's the only thing this is I
• 40:58
  should have known better, but I didn't.
• 41:03
  Still, I find I find this dynamic very interesting because
• 41:06
  I wasn't the only one. That's that's what I got when I
• 41:09
  when I met up with the people at my meet up, I wasn't the only
• 41:13
  one who was like this religious about it.
• 41:17
  Even though it's not a, not a religion, but it's, I think
• 41:20
  it's, it speaks to some, some kind of, some, some part of
• 41:24
  your, your psyche that is like, I, I wouldn't say religious, but
• 41:29
  but it's, it's so, so deeply intertwined with your identity
• 41:33
  and, and with your view on the world that you have to, that you
• 41:37
  get inclined to, to put out the word of it because you're so
• 41:41
  fascinated by this topic. You're so fascinated by the
• 41:44
  possibilities and brings and yeah, I'm kind of got lost in in
• 41:53
  in what I what I was talking about.
• 41:55
  Oh, I think you're. Hitting on that that and again,
• 41:59
  it goes back to some sort of, I don't know, like, yeah, some
• 42:05
  sort of impulse, some sort of energy that is inside.
• 42:14
  And I mean, yeah, I does. Peter Todd feel that impulse.
• 42:20
  Does he feel that energy? I don't know.
• 42:21
  Does does mechanic does all of the people that are being so
• 42:27
  overtaken by this, you know, Bitcoin core 30 up return
• 42:33
  debate, are they are they feeling that kind of deeper
• 42:37
  resonance and are they following that?
• 42:40
  I don't know. So obviously Bitcoin doesn't do
• 42:42
  it for everyone and it's fine. It's cool.
• 42:45
  It is the cool thing is you can just plug in, plug yourself in
• 42:49
  and it will just amplify whatever's inside you.
• 42:51
  Anyway. That's that's kind of what I I
• 42:53
  think about. It's like, you know, we had some
• 42:58
  earlier episodes with Bitcoin data and Marcel Lorraine was
• 43:02
  talking about, you know, how women in the community are using
• 43:06
  Bitcoin as a way to escape domestic violence and things
• 43:11
  like this. And this is the beautiful thing
• 43:14
  that it gives you. Like it amplifies those
• 43:18
  optional, that optionality and those that that ability to
• 43:22
  actually become whoever it is you are.
• 43:24
  And maybe, you know, the kind of hypertech nerds that are out
• 43:29
  there doing all the stuff that they're doing, which is great.
• 43:34
  But also like it's a total distraction as well.
• 43:37
  It, it, it kind of, it just amplifies, you know, where you
• 43:43
  want to go or who you want to be or I don't know, that impulse
• 43:48
  inside. And it's fucking fascinating,
• 43:51
  man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 43:54
  And at least for me, and maybe This is why I'm, I was calling
• 43:58
  it religious zealotry, but I myself, I wasn't, I wasn't a
• 44:03
  religious person. And I, I'd say the place I'm
• 44:07
  coming from Germany and, and especially, especially like the
• 44:14
  generation I'm coming from, unlike the the late, late end of
• 44:18
  the, the millennials, I'd say these people aren't unreligious
• 44:24
  in any kind. We have like this very secular
• 44:29
  society. I'd say people look towards
• 44:33
  science and the newspapers, the television, the news, that's
• 44:40
  what they believe in. And yeah, our our reality is, is
• 44:47
  a random coincidence. And that's basically it.
• 44:50
  There's nothing of meaning about it.
• 44:54
  And I was coming from this place as well.
• 44:57
  And I wouldn't say that I've become a Christian or any other
• 45:03
  follow of any, any religion or such.
• 45:06
  But This is why I was talking about it for because I think
• 45:11
  Bitcoin had this impulse to interact with this deeper
• 45:18
  dimension within myself. And I think many other people
• 45:22
  have this as well like this. There's a reason why religion or
• 45:26
  let's call it spirituality or whatever you might call it, why,
• 45:29
  why people of have this, why they follow it why, why they
• 45:33
  believe in something bigger or deeper than than only the
• 45:37
  reality they, they see around them.
• 45:40
  And I, I think this is a very important thing because I'd say
• 45:43
  Bitcoin kind of triggered this impulse within me because I got
• 45:47
  so, so, so wrapped around that. I wanted to tell everything
• 45:53
  about the good message about the, about the, the, the Lord
• 45:57
  and savior of Bitcoin. But this was only like, like
• 46:02
  that. There was something beneath it,
• 46:03
  right? I, I found something, I was, I'm
• 46:07
  so astonished by where, where I could see, OK, there are so many
• 46:11
  lies that have been told to, to me and, and to, to my, to my
• 46:17
  friends, to my family and, and they all believe it.
• 46:19
  And, and then you can look at this, this technology and it
• 46:23
  turns the, the, the view of the world upside down.
• 46:27
  It spoke to me on a very, very deep level.
• 46:30
  And I wouldn't say that, that, that Bitcoin is my religion.
• 46:32
  It's, it's, it's nonsense. You know, it's, it's a joke.
• 46:35
  It's a meme to that's used to talk down to, to people who are
• 46:40
  in Bitcoin and say, yeah, it's, it's, it's sectarianism, It's
• 46:44
  just a religion. They are, they are mental.
• 46:48
  And but I still, I, I still like to, I still would like to dig
• 46:52
  deeper into, into this meme because I think there's, there's
• 46:56
  something within because I, I already told you I I was not the
• 47:00
  only one when I was talking to people on the, in the, in the
• 47:04
  meet up in the, in the meat space, the people I, I, I got to
• 47:08
  knew, got to knew over there, they, they took me.
• 47:10
  Had they not, not all of them, but some of them had the same
• 47:13
  experience. They were talking.
• 47:15
  Yeah. I was, I was trying to convince
• 47:17
  everyone how how good Bitcoin is and, and, and nobody was
• 47:21
  listening. So it got me thinking maybe, OK,
• 47:25
  if I'm not the only one, if, if there's something like this,
• 47:28
  it's like, yeah, desire to spread, like spread the good
• 47:36
  word about Bitcoin. Yeah, the gospel.
• 47:41
  That's, that's basically it. If there's this desire, there
• 47:44
  must be something beneath it. And for me, only recently,
• 47:51
  that's what I what I figured it was kind of like my second
• 47:58
  spiritual experience to get to know Bitcoin.
• 48:02
  So what? What do I mean by what do I mean
• 48:04
  by that? As I already told you, I'm not a
• 48:09
  Christian. I don't go to church.
• 48:12
  I don't, I wouldn't call myself a Catholic or a Protestant, but
• 48:17
  I still, I still believe in in some something bigger than than
• 48:20
  me. Some some people might might say
• 48:23
  it's, it's God, right. And I'm I'm keen with it.
• 48:26
  I, I don't, I don't really have a word with for it, but I'm,
• 48:30
  I'm, I'm fine to call it call it God.
• 48:32
  And I think understanding that there's something not right with
• 48:38
  with within this reality as as you, you were taught to look at
• 48:42
  it, it, it, it, it opened something in me like like like a
• 48:48
  door was opened. And when I, when I, when I, when
• 48:51
  I was was looking with within the, the, the, the impulse that
• 48:57
  that started it within the, the energy that was coming from it,
• 49:02
  I, I found so many other things within myself.
• 49:07
  And it's it it completely, it completely changed, changed me
• 49:13
  from the inside. And I wouldn't say that Bitcoin
• 49:16
  has changed me. Bitcoin is, is is a great tool
• 49:19
  for, as I already told you, for for financial independence, for
• 49:25
  more. I mean, the, the, the aspect
• 49:28
  that you have a, a fair and, and, and, and hard money.
• 49:31
  It's, it's, it's so great. But I wouldn't say that Bitcoin
• 49:34
  in itself has changed me, but the energy behind that, that,
• 49:36
  that it, it dismantled parts of the reality.
• 49:40
  I things, I, I, I called truths and such and they, they, they
• 49:46
  were proven to be wrong, lies and such that, that that kick
• 49:51
  started something and that kick started the, the, the momentum
• 49:55
  of, of you need to go deeper. You need to, to, to get to the
• 49:59
  core of things. And that's why I, I say Bitcoin
• 50:02
  is like the second spiritual experience I had.
• 50:06
  It might sound, it might sound kind of kind of funny to to some
• 50:11
  listeners, but it's it's, it's kind of hard to explain.
• 50:18
  Maybe, maybe, I don't know, maybe maybe you have have some,
• 50:22
  some similar experience. But yeah.
• 50:26
  I, I, I think that there is an impulse that, that, that Bitcoin
• 50:35
  catalyses, it is a catalyst for some form of spiritual
• 50:40
  awakening. And that can be, that can
• 50:42
  manifest in, in, you know, any different ways.
• 50:45
  And I think again, it goes back to the individual and the
• 50:48
  amplification of whatever is within them already.
• 50:52
  So, for instance, there's a lot of Bitcoiners will talk about,
• 50:56
  you know, you know, God from a sort of organised religion
• 51:06
  sense. You know, they'll talk about
• 51:07
  going to church, you know, just LED them back to going to church
• 51:10
  on Sundays and stuff. And, you know, cool.
• 51:15
  I'm, I'm, I'm down with that. There's other Bitcoiners that
• 51:21
  that have some sort of urge to discover some element of
• 51:26
  spirituality in within themselves through things like
• 51:30
  meditation or, you know, I mean, I feel it.
• 51:34
  Gosh, I was, I was talking to Yugo Khanna on an episode and
• 51:38
  the way he was describing his faith and his religion and just
• 51:42
  the, the sense of groundedness that he had, like I, I started
• 51:46
  to that was that was actually a bit of a trigger point.
• 51:49
  There's an episode, you can listen to it.
• 51:51
  I'm sort of doing it live on air.
• 51:52
  I'm just like, fuck. But like that for me, I always
• 51:57
  get a little bit put off on the organized religion element of
• 52:04
  it. That notion of a mediator
• 52:08
  between me and the, the higher, you know, by God.
• 52:13
  Let's just use that word. Like I, I don't really care
• 52:17
  whether you use the word God or, you know, Ram or Buddha or the
• 52:26
  universe. It doesn't fucking matter.
• 52:28
  Like it's all God and it's within me.
• 52:30
  So I've, what I've been doing personally is reading a lot of
• 52:34
  Gnosticism, reading a lot of Hinduism, reading a lot of
• 52:39
  Rosicrucianism and being exposed to that in particular through
• 52:45
  Steiner. Because Steiner was talking
• 52:47
  about the Christ impulse and the element of that as a, as a
• 52:51
  spiritual being. Like for instance, I get put off
• 52:55
  and it's just me. It's my thing.
• 52:57
  I don't necessarily think of Jesus as a, as a person to
• 53:00
  follow, but the Christ is, is the superior.
• 53:04
  Like there's an element of esoteric versus exoteric
• 53:07
  Christianity. And the esoteric is the, well,
• 53:11
  sorry, the exoteric is the stuff that you would do if you, you
• 53:15
  know, you went on Sunday, you had a pastor or a mediator,
• 53:19
  someone to sort of interpret the word of God and you would read
• 53:22
  from the Bible and you'd get them to kind of literally
• 53:25
  translate it for you or, or whatever and help you understand
• 53:28
  it. That's perfectly fine.
• 53:30
  Then there's the exoteric aspect of Christianity, which I find
• 53:36
  infinitely more fascinating because it means that I can have
• 53:38
  a direct and personal relationship with God, like in
• 53:41
  Luke 2021, I think it is. The Kingdom of God is within
• 53:45
  you. That is I'm I'm down with that
• 53:48
  way more than I am with like having to go through someone.
• 53:51
  It's like a decentralized element to it.
• 53:53
  Like I don't have to ask permission to acquire Bitcoin,
• 53:59
  you know, yeah, the KYC exists, but I can just go and noster and
• 54:03
  start shit posting and people will just add me Bitcoin.
• 54:06
  It's permissionless and and decentralized.
• 54:08
  Like I don't need to to. Yeah, to to be granted
• 54:14
  permission and to have to do all the things I can get to a level
• 54:17
  where I might become, you know, interested in becoming like an
• 54:21
  initiate of something. But I think of of, you know,
• 54:26
  those that that impulse is definitely something that I feel
• 54:29
  and have had awakened particularly in the last, you
• 54:32
  know, couple of years, I suppose.
• 54:36
  And, you know, I, I really love listening to Ramdas lectures
• 54:40
  because I find that he's not talking about, you know,
• 54:44
  following it this way and that way.
• 54:46
  And there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it.
• 54:48
  It's just just be here now, you know, it's just, it just is.
• 54:52
  And tapping into that. And I think that is a remarkable
• 54:55
  thing that I still can't get my head around.
• 54:57
  Like, why does this neutral protocol for transmitting value
• 55:01
  across time and space be a catalyst for some form of
• 55:07
  spiritual impulse, spiritual awakening?
• 55:10
  I, I can't actually rationalize it.
• 55:14
  Like it doesn't make sense to me.
• 55:17
  If you had asked me that like 10 years ago, I'd be I'd say
• 55:19
  you're. You sound like you've gone off
• 55:22
  the rails, but it can make complete logical sense for me.
• 55:28
  I think, I think it does make sense to some extent, but it's,
• 55:32
  it's hard to explain, but yeah. But, but let me try it as I, as
• 55:37
  I was already rambling about you, you have like this element
• 55:43
  of truth, right? Truth is something that is deep
• 55:47
  within ourselves. And I think all this
• 55:49
  spirituality and, and the, the topics you were talking about, I
• 55:53
  find them extremely fascinating. And they, I, I, I feel drawn to
• 55:56
  them like, like a lot, even like the classical religion, whereas
• 56:02
  you were already talking about people going to church.
• 56:05
  I also find it interesting. I don't do it myself, but I, but
• 56:08
  I get it why people do it. And I think there's, there's
• 56:10
  something normal behind it. And I think there's a connection
• 56:13
  to truth. So finding truth, unmantling it,
• 56:17
  living truth and, and getting to know the truth, I think that's
• 56:21
  deeply connected with like the spiritual or with a religious.
• 56:28
  Yeah, with a religious life or something like that.
• 56:31
  So this is where where Bitcoin comes in.
• 56:35
  Bitcoin tells the truth. It's like, I don't know who who
• 56:39
  put it out. There's like a quote, I think it
• 56:40
  might be Jeff Booth or something or, or or something totally as
• 56:44
  I'm. I'm just attributing it to Jeff
• 56:47
  Booth right now. I mean, like Bitcoin is the only
• 56:52
  I, I don't, I don't have it, have it in my mind.
• 56:55
  It might be the, the, the bad flu that's messing up my, my
• 56:57
  head right now. But something, something like
• 57:00
  it's a running truth machine that can't be stopped or
• 57:02
  something, something like that. And you, you think about it and,
• 57:07
  and say, why is it running truth machine?
• 57:09
  It's it's money, It's a, it's a network.
• 57:12
  What, what does it have to do with the truth?
• 57:15
  But if you look at it from another perspective, right, you
• 57:18
  have like you have like the proof of work and also the, the,
• 57:26
  the blocks that are coming in every every around like 10
• 57:29
  minutes and you can't fake, you can't fake if, if, if, if a
• 57:34
  miner found a block and and transmit transmits it to the
• 57:40
  network, includes the transactions.
• 57:42
  You can't, he cannot fake that he's found the right block.
• 57:48
  The the network will will always see if if someone's trying to
• 57:52
  cheat, if someone put in the wrong amount of leading zeros,
• 57:58
  these blocks will not be accepted by the network.
• 58:00
  So you can only only by including truth only then the,
• 58:05
  the, the the network is is going forward.
• 58:09
  So there are these two elements of truth within Bitcoin, right?
• 58:12
  And 1st in the, in the technical layer where where you have to
• 58:17
  speak the truth, where you have to find the true block and, and
• 58:22
  the technology in itself and, and the network in itself will
• 58:27
  react to that and can only go on if truth has been spoken.
• 58:33
  But then you have it on another level, I'd say in this societal
• 58:36
  level where Bitcoin is able to dismantle some, some lies and,
• 58:42
  and, and show truth about the monetary system, for example, or
• 58:47
  about Keynesian economics and, and some, some voodoo like that.
• 58:51
  So these two areas of truth, I'd say they, they, they, they,
• 58:57
  they, they, they could start a spark inside you, at least, at
• 59:01
  least for me. Because when, when you get to
• 59:04
  know the truth, when, when, when you get get in contact with it,
• 59:07
  you it's kind of like in the ditch.
• 59:10
  I, I you want to, you want to have more of it, you need to
• 59:14
  you, you can't say, oh, I found the truth in this one area, but
• 59:17
  then that's enough for me. Everything, everything else
• 59:20
  doesn't doesn't matter. I have this one truth.
• 59:23
  All, all the others, they, they, they, I don't care.
• 59:27
  Yeah, maybe, maybe someone does this, but it, it didn't work out
• 59:33
  for me. So I'd say finding truth within
• 59:37
  and through Bitcoin put me on a journey and I, I haven't arrived
• 59:40
  at some point. Basically I'm, I'm still, I'm
• 59:43
  still on the journey. But it's so, yeah, it feels
• 59:47
  really, really good. It feels like I've come closer
• 59:50
  to myself through this journey. I've got to know myself a lot
• 59:53
  better. And by getting to know myself,
• 59:56
  but I also, yeah, could, could, could learn some, some general
• 1:00:01
  things about the human psyche, about humans as well.
• 1:00:06
  So. I, I learned, I got to learn
• 1:00:08
  myself better, but in the process I, I, I've got to learn
• 1:00:12
  things about other people as well.
• 1:00:13
  And, and it's so, so, so fascinating.
• 1:00:16
  And yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe now the, the threads I was, I
• 1:00:20
  was throwing around so a couple of minutes earlier, maybe now
• 1:00:24
  they, they can connect a little bit.
• 1:00:27
  That's what I was talking about my like second spiritual
• 1:00:31
  experience, which I found in Bitcoin and maybe it's becoming
• 1:00:36
  more clearly as we are talking about it.
• 1:00:39
  I'd say it's it's truth, finding truth and Bitcoin enlightened.
• 1:00:45
  Maybe this is the wrong word. It's, it's very it's very yeah,
• 1:00:50
  it's very dramatically used in in in these contexts kind of.
• 1:00:54
  But I, I don't have have anything better right now at the
• 1:00:57
  moment. So let's let's let's use it
• 1:00:59
  maybe it enlighten the spark inside me of truth to, to
• 1:01:03
  venture towards truth to to become truth myself.
• 1:01:07
  Because I also, to be honest, I also found many things in myself
• 1:01:12
  which aren't in alignment, which I, I, I truly am many things in
• 1:01:18
  myself when I, I get in contact with other people where I
• 1:01:22
  possibly wasn't lying, but also not telling the truth, where I
• 1:01:26
  was avoiding the truth in kind of ways.
• 1:01:31
  And all these things, they are, they are so important and they,
• 1:01:35
  they, they helped me to, to grow in, in so many ways.
• 1:01:43
  I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm close to 30 years old, but it's, it's
• 1:01:48
  like the the last four or five years I've I've, I've not not
• 1:01:52
  learned as much. I've not grown as strong for in
• 1:01:56
  my whole life. It's it's so fascinating.
• 1:01:59
  That is, that's the best bit, man.
• 1:02:03
  Like it's like an accelerant for, well, we were talking about
• 1:02:09
  before about being an autodidact and again, just amplifying all
• 1:02:13
  the things that were, were within you, whether they were
• 1:02:17
  dormant or dynamic, you know, they, they just kind of, and,
• 1:02:23
  and you can turn towards them, you can direct attention and,
• 1:02:26
  and energy towards them. And because you have that time
• 1:02:31
  base that's a lot more solid and getting more solid, more and
• 1:02:35
  more solid each and every time that that optionality increases.
• 1:02:38
  So you can direct more attention, more energy to those
• 1:02:43
  notions, to those concepts, to those impulses that you're
• 1:02:45
  feeling and actually investigate them even further, even deeper,
• 1:02:50
  even wider. And it's, it's, it, it like it,
• 1:02:55
  it literally just makes everyone that much that much better,
• 1:03:00
  Which is, which is one of the reasons why the state will
• 1:03:03
  probably want to and, and if not already quell it because, you
• 1:03:07
  know, they put fluoride in the water and they do a whole bunch
• 1:03:09
  of other nasty shit in the in the interests of for your safety
• 1:03:15
  and, you know. It runs.
• 1:03:16
  So it's so counter to to what, what you know, the, the, the
• 1:03:22
  promise, not even the promise, because that sounds silly, but
• 1:03:26
  Bitcoin doesn't promise anything.
• 1:03:27
  It's the human beings that are interacting with it.
• 1:03:29
  But yeah, it's, it's wild. And to think that you've, you
• 1:03:37
  know, discovered it at this point and then you, you touched
• 1:03:40
  on it actually in a couple in a couple of points.
• 1:03:43
  But well, we'll ask the question How has discovering Bitcoin
• 1:03:47
  changed you? Well, that's that's a big
• 1:03:52
  question. I'd say it it as I as I was
• 1:03:58
  already putting it out. I'd say it brought me a lot
• 1:04:01
  closer to my own truth. I'd say it helped me to to be
• 1:04:06
  more honest not only to others but also being honest with
• 1:04:11
  myself, to have a much better sense of differentiating between
• 1:04:18
  what feels right and what feels wrong.
• 1:04:22
  And also to listen to myself about these things.
• 1:04:26
  Also tapping into intuition as we were talking earlier.
• 1:04:29
  Also having the, the faith in my own, in my own being and in my
• 1:04:37
  intuition as well, because that's what I what I was wanted
• 1:04:41
  to do to also stress about it. Everyone has this intuition and
• 1:04:47
  for me, it never failed me when I was listening to my intuition,
• 1:04:52
  when, when something in inside me said, don't go down this path
• 1:04:55
  and I walked down this path. Often times terrible things
• 1:05:00
  happened. And vice versa.
• 1:05:04
  When, when, when, when I, when I listen to my intuition, for
• 1:05:10
  example, it told me as, as I was talking, read this book again
• 1:05:14
  and and I did it. I was, I was rewarded in in so
• 1:05:17
  many ways. And this is basically it.
• 1:05:20
  So discovering Bitcoin brought me closer to truth, to my own
• 1:05:25
  truth and also to listening to intuition.
• 1:05:28
  And I can only recommend everybody else to, to listen,
• 1:05:32
  listen to your intuition because it's, and from my point of view,
• 1:05:36
  it's, it's a superpower. It will, it will bring you so
• 1:05:39
  far. It will give you so much.
• 1:05:41
  It's, it's truly, I don't have words for it.
• 1:05:47
  It's just immensely great. Yeah, you got to.
• 1:05:53
  You got to listen to your intuition.
• 1:05:55
  I mean, it's really the only way to get on in this life, you
• 1:06:01
  know, I don't, I don't have the terminology.
• 1:06:04
  I don't have the the way to describe it, you know, but it's
• 1:06:10
  kind of like, again, going off into some woo woo territory.
• 1:06:16
  Excuse me, but. Let's like, let's go on.
• 1:06:19
  This is the right kind of territory for me.
• 1:06:22
  Yeah, but I've been reading a little bit about, you know,
• 1:06:24
  etheric and astral bodies and you know, starter talks about
• 1:06:30
  sort of the threefold human being, which is basically mind
• 1:06:38
  body and it's it's sorry, it's body, soul and spirit.
• 1:06:42
  When he, when he uses the word soul, it's actually more like
• 1:06:45
  psychology. So, you know, there's body,
• 1:06:49
  which is the material, the soul or the psychological, which is
• 1:06:54
  more like intellectual. And then the spirit is kind of
• 1:06:58
  like the all-encompassing. And then there's actually a, a,
• 1:07:01
  a fourth being that inhabits us, which is the, I'm pretty sure he
• 1:07:07
  calls it the, is it? It's either the astral or the
• 1:07:10
  etheric. Anyway, I shouldn't talk on
• 1:07:13
  things that I don't fully grok, but but the, the, this notion of
• 1:07:19
  intuition, this impulse that lies within us.
• 1:07:24
  And it's like a little voice and you can sort of you, you've got
• 1:07:26
  to turn towards it, give it attention, give it energy to
• 1:07:29
  turn it up to make it louder. And it, and it's, it's kind of
• 1:07:33
  just following your heart really.
• 1:07:34
  It sounds so cheesy, but it, it, it kind of is just that.
• 1:07:37
  And I don't know man, like in, in my life, for instance, I've
• 1:07:43
  always just for good or bad, I've always just done what I, I
• 1:07:47
  felt was right at the time. And you know, the things that
• 1:07:50
  gave me joy, like you were talking about before about
• 1:07:52
  learning the piano and you're self-taught.
• 1:07:55
  And it's not because you want to become a master.
• 1:07:59
  And you might, I don't know, but I dare say the impulse
• 1:08:02
  originally was pleasure, right? It's just a joy to play the
• 1:08:08
  piano, to get better at it, to learn new things.
• 1:08:12
  And it's the same with Bitcoin. It's a pleasurable thing to
• 1:08:15
  learn about it, to think about it, to talk about it.
• 1:08:19
  And it, it's just all, all of these impulses are effectively,
• 1:08:24
  you know, just things that feel right and.
• 1:08:31
  Yeah, I think it's it's not only.
• 1:08:33
  Makes you financially viable as well.
• 1:08:36
  It's not only only only fun, but also feels right.
• 1:08:42
  That's I think, I think it's it's very kind of innocent.
• 1:08:45
  You don't start at it with like this intuition of what what's in
• 1:08:50
  it for me? What can I get out of it?
• 1:08:52
  What can I use it for? What is the path starting to
• 1:08:58
  improve my next steps? Maybe some people go towards it
• 1:09:03
  and it might work out for them. But for me, I have to say, when
• 1:09:09
  you try to look at things the innocent way, only for the
• 1:09:14
  things themselves, for the sake of itself, it will reward you in
• 1:09:18
  so many ways it could not otherwise, because you don't
• 1:09:22
  bring these like intentions with you.
• 1:09:27
  I mean, intentions aren't bad in itself, but sometimes, at least
• 1:09:31
  for me, when I bring too many intentions to my actions, they
• 1:09:36
  kind of shroud my vision. They kind of point my movement,
• 1:09:43
  my action towards one specific point.
• 1:09:45
  And that might be all right. That might be OK.
• 1:09:47
  It's good to have a goal. It's good to have a vision,
• 1:09:50
  something to work towards, but it can also stifle you.
• 1:09:55
  It can also, yeah, it can also keep you from expanding.
• 1:10:01
  It can also take away some creativity and, and, and the
• 1:10:06
  freedom about it. So that's basically it.
• 1:10:10
  I know I didn't, I didn't start with Bitcoin in this, in this
• 1:10:13
  kind of connection because I had this this kind of thought in my
• 1:10:15
  head, how how can I become more rich?
• 1:10:18
  How can I improve my financial situation?
• 1:10:20
  So I didn't start with this like innocent nature, but it's it's I
• 1:10:27
  kind of got humbled into it when I lost so much on gambling with
• 1:10:34
  shit coins, I'd say. And going back to another topic,
• 1:10:39
  this is the the kind of state of mind I was in when I started
• 1:10:42
  with Nosta. I didn't start Nosta to say, oh,
• 1:10:45
  I will become this great influencer and I will have so
• 1:10:49
  many people listening to me and I can tell them how they have to
• 1:10:53
  behave and I want to share this and that big no, I just started
• 1:10:56
  it. I was interested, I was
• 1:10:58
  intrigued. I wanted to to try it out.
• 1:11:01
  That's basically it. And it it's so, so valuable.
• 1:11:06
  All these interactions with so many people.
• 1:11:09
  For example, I only recently met a guy he's called Hans and we
• 1:11:13
  had these insane interactions. Big shout out to him if he's
• 1:11:17
  listening to it. Hence your your your great
• 1:11:21
  inspiration. Anyways, it's it's.
• 1:11:24
  It's so so so so great. Well, shout out to Hans.
• 1:11:30
  Hey, like that's the cool thing, and I don't know if you knew
• 1:11:34
  Hans prior to discovering Bitcoin, you know, or not, but
• 1:11:42
  it enables you to connect with so many cool people.
• 1:11:48
  I mean, this podcast is ludicrous in for that.
• 1:11:51
  I mean, half these people I'm not even going to meet in real
• 1:11:53
  life, and yet I can have these incredibly meaningful
• 1:11:57
  conversations simply because we all happen to align on the fact
• 1:12:04
  that we like the same money, you know, And it's, it's kind of
• 1:12:08
  cool. It's it's, it's really
• 1:12:13
  interesting. There's like if you I wouldn't,
• 1:12:18
  wouldn't, I don't want to dive into the realm of politics, so
• 1:12:22
  let's not do it. But you sometimes have this
• 1:12:25
  thing at least in in Germany where I live, you have these
• 1:12:29
  topics you you don't want to talk about with strangers
• 1:12:32
  because someone is on the one side and the other one is on the
• 1:12:35
  right side. And you, you need to either you
• 1:12:39
  have your one opinion, but then the other one is against it.
• 1:12:42
  And then you're in confrontation, then you're
• 1:12:44
  against each other. Then the conversation stops
• 1:12:47
  because they they think you're one of the good guys and, and,
• 1:12:50
  and the other one is, is 1 one of the bad guys or something.
• 1:12:54
  So you have like this divisive nature and like general
• 1:12:59
  discourse and what I find so, so fascinating about Bitcoin,
• 1:13:05
  people who understand Bitcoin, people who unite, not unite, but
• 1:13:11
  but who, who get it to who participate in the network.
• 1:13:15
  I'd say they don't have this. I have to to, to look and see is
• 1:13:21
  he one of the rights? Is he Republican?
• 1:13:22
  Is he, is he Democrats or is he Christian or Muslim?
• 1:13:27
  Or so maybe you still have these like differences, but because we
• 1:13:32
  have this like 1 common, yeah, this this one common goal in
• 1:13:37
  mind to, to, to, to use Bitcoin to, to spread it, to, to make it
• 1:13:44
  bigger, to, to learn more from it to, to, to grow with with it.
• 1:13:51
  You don't need to kind of shake out these other, as I was
• 1:13:55
  suggesting political beliefs and ah, can I, can I talk with him
• 1:13:59
  or can I not? Is she the right person?
• 1:14:02
  If you have like you have like this one foundation, there's
• 1:14:05
  Bitcoin and you you instantly, if you, if you know someone
• 1:14:12
  someone is is supporting Bitcoin, you instantly know that
• 1:14:16
  you might have a good conversation with them.
• 1:14:18
  Even though they might possibly not align with you politically
• 1:14:22
  or spiritually or religiously, there's still so much you can
• 1:14:26
  connect to them that's so, so great about it.
• 1:14:29
  Exactly. It's like you.
• 1:14:31
  You can disagree on the 5% either side of the of the 90
• 1:14:36
  like you can, you can pretty much, you know, bet that you'll
• 1:14:40
  agree on about 90% of most things.
• 1:14:44
  And then you can kind of explore and debate, discuss, you know,
• 1:14:50
  the 5% to make up the 100. And it's, it's the cool thing
• 1:14:55
  about about going to a meet up, being in, in the same meat space
• 1:15:03
  as other Bitcoiners, you know, and, and you know, it's not,
• 1:15:07
  it's not a salve, it's not a silver bullet.
• 1:15:09
  Like I know some bitcoins that annoy the shit out of me and I
• 1:15:13
  probably annoy the shit out of them.
• 1:15:14
  It's like it's we're all just human beings, you know, And you
• 1:15:20
  don't have to align completely, but we're all kind of pulling in
• 1:15:23
  the in the right direction. We're all general directionally
• 1:15:26
  correct in our I don't know. Definitely, definitely.
• 1:15:34
  I'd say, I'd say Bitcoin is like this great unifier, despite our
• 1:15:39
  differences, despite our upbringings, despite our ideas,
• 1:15:44
  our despite our ideologies, whatever.
• 1:15:49
  You have this one unifying thing.
• 1:15:51
  And it's so great because I already made a made a post about
• 1:15:56
  it on Asda. I lost a couple of friends in
• 1:16:00
  the last years because of all these cultural and political
• 1:16:05
  dimensions. And there there were big
• 1:16:07
  disalignments because of that. And it was also painful for me
• 1:16:13
  losing friends. I, I, I knew from from childhood
• 1:16:16
  and, and such. But As for for Bitcoin, I would
• 1:16:21
  say when you have this like foundation where you agree on,
• 1:16:26
  so you don't need to find this political dimension or cultural
• 1:16:30
  dimension. You have your agreeance and
• 1:16:32
  these things are not as important or not not, not not
• 1:16:38
  important. But they don't took the scales.
• 1:16:41
  I would say they they don't decide if if you're fine to to
• 1:16:46
  be in the company of someone you might consider your enemy
• 1:16:50
  because you're still you're still aligned, you're still, you
• 1:16:53
  still have this connection through Bitcoin and I'm for
• 1:16:57
  example, as I already told you at this like spiritual, yeah,
• 1:17:03
  spiritual experience. And I, I have this, I'm very
• 1:17:09
  interested in these topics which, which you were calling
• 1:17:11
  woo woo and reading your articles on Steiner and such, I
• 1:17:15
  find this very interesting. But there are also many atheist
• 1:17:18
  Bitcoiners, you know, but I don't despise them.
• 1:17:21
  I don't tell them, oh, you're so dumb.
• 1:17:23
  There's much more. How can't you see it?
• 1:17:25
  We still have this, this connection we have in common.
• 1:17:29
  We have this common ground. And it's it's also very, very
• 1:17:33
  liberating, not not only for me, but in a greater sense
• 1:17:36
  liberating for, for, for, for all the for the whole of the
• 1:17:40
  network. Yeah, you could possibly say you
• 1:17:42
  have these big division, right? There are always fights and
• 1:17:47
  such. If you look at the core 30
• 1:17:50
  thing. And for me, I, I don't know
• 1:17:53
  what, what, what, what, what, what side is right?
• 1:17:56
  I haven't figured it out myself. I think both both sides have
• 1:17:59
  some some valid points. That's I, I still, I don't know,
• 1:18:06
  I, I'm not willing to call the others dumbasses And and I I
• 1:18:11
  don't, I wouldn't, wouldn't say, oh, you're, you're so wrong
• 1:18:14
  because you want to, to filter the network or, or what kind of
• 1:18:18
  moron are you because you want to put jpegs on the chain.
• 1:18:22
  I I don't think it's, it's, it's, it's it helps.
• 1:18:26
  I don't think it's, it's productive.
• 1:18:29
  It sheets. It's like a big divisive force
• 1:18:32
  and, and the conspiratorial senses and me, they, they are
• 1:18:36
  tingling quite a lot regarding this topic.
• 1:18:39
  They, I, I, I don't think that the people involved in these big
• 1:18:45
  debates, I don't think they, they, their plan is to, to
• 1:18:49
  divide the community. But I have the feeling that some
• 1:18:53
  some forces behind behind it. It sounds so stupid, but that's
• 1:18:59
  you. You might understand it.
• 1:19:01
  It, it feels similar to things in culture and politics that are
• 1:19:06
  going, going around right now, right?
• 1:19:09
  You know, everything that that happens in the US with Charlie
• 1:19:12
  Kirk and stuff like that, there's so much divisive forces.
• 1:19:16
  There are so many things happening that that try to pull
• 1:19:21
  people from away from each other and to, to only see, see them as
• 1:19:26
  friend or enemy to, to take away the, the, the, the Shades of
• 1:19:32
  Grey beneath it, right. And I think this, this, yeah,
• 1:19:38
  Core 30 war or filter war, however you want to call it, it
• 1:19:42
  feels kind of the same. I don't, I don't, I cannot prove
• 1:19:46
  it, not at all. It's just some conspiracy by me.
• 1:19:51
  But it kind of has the same energy.
• 1:19:54
  And I, I think it's important to, to talk about this topic.
• 1:19:58
  And I think it's important if you, if you think you, you have
• 1:20:01
  the right idea to, to push it forward.
• 1:20:03
  But I, I also think the, the energy in which this debate is,
• 1:20:08
  is put forward. It's it's very counterproductive
• 1:20:13
  to see the other one as your as your enemy and to yeah, kind of
• 1:20:18
  want to get rid of them or something.
• 1:20:20
  Yeah, it's gross, man. It's it's not productive.
• 1:20:26
  It's not, it's not coming from a place of goodness or love or
• 1:20:32
  freedom. Basically it's coming from a
• 1:20:35
  place of cold. Almost like too intelligent for
• 1:20:42
  its own good. You know, it's over
• 1:20:43
  intellectualizing. It's soulless, it's materialist.
• 1:20:48
  I don't know, it, it kind of, yeah.
• 1:20:53
  It, it, it, it, it, this is the thing I, I think I, I dig about
• 1:20:59
  comprehending Bitcoin from, or at least feeling that spiritual
• 1:21:03
  impulse and that intuition is that it, it, it kind of gives a
• 1:21:07
  bit of life and love to what is essentially an algorithm, right?
• 1:21:14
  You know, a protocol and from that point of view, you know it,
• 1:21:18
  it's, it's software, it's code. And so it is, it's almost seems
• 1:21:22
  silly to imbue it with emotion, but that's what human beings do.
• 1:21:29
  And that's kind of our role. So we can take these mechanical,
• 1:21:33
  algorithmic, you know, effectively soulless things and
• 1:21:40
  imbue them with a dynamism and, and a sense of humanity that
• 1:21:47
  comes from a place of love and ethics, morality and freedom
• 1:21:55
  impulses. And that's all because of
• 1:21:58
  consciousness. You know, we, we, we bring that
• 1:22:01
  to the table. But yeah, the, the, the division
• 1:22:05
  that and it's entertaining. A lot of people use it as
• 1:22:07
  fucking entertainment. Half the Bitcoin podcasts for
• 1:22:10
  the last six months have all been talking about this thing
• 1:22:12
  and it's been tedious. Like, who gives a shit?
• 1:22:16
  I heard Hoddle talking about it. American Hoddle.
• 1:22:19
  He was like, I think it's a lot of a lot of people are just kind
• 1:22:21
  of wishing that they were a part of the block size wars and
• 1:22:25
  they're kind of trying to try and have their own version of
• 1:22:27
  it. And I was like, that's probably
• 1:22:29
  true, man. You know, he's got a great way
• 1:22:31
  of, of seeing the world. But yeah, I, I don't, I don't
• 1:22:36
  like to spend too much time on the, the sort of aromatic forces
• 1:22:39
  that I'm just just trying to, trying to put it through to the
• 1:22:44
  keeper, you know? Yeah, I think we.
• 1:22:49
  Yeah, go on. Sorry.
• 1:22:50
  I was just going to say I was going to, I was going to pivot
• 1:22:53
  so you finish your point. OK.
• 1:22:56
  Yeah, just I just wanted to add that we shouldn't, shouldn't be
• 1:22:59
  divided because we already have this foundation and, and Bitcoin
• 1:23:05
  or, or also Nosta. These are so powerful ideas and
• 1:23:11
  and they are kind of bulletproof as Alan Moore would say, ideas
• 1:23:15
  are bulletproof. We we shouldn't, we shouldn't,
• 1:23:21
  we shouldn't get get to our throats ourselves.
• 1:23:23
  We should stay united. At least that's, that's what I
• 1:23:28
  think. I mean, we'll always have have
• 1:23:31
  like different differences and, and that's, that's, that's
• 1:23:34
  great. That's, that's part of being
• 1:23:35
  human. You, you, you, you go further by
• 1:23:40
  interacting with someone who has a different point of view.
• 1:23:43
  That's, that's helpful. But still it's, it's not good
• 1:23:49
  to, to only look through the lens of foe or friend.
• 1:23:53
  There's so much more between US and and I, I can't stand it, to
• 1:23:57
  be honest. What do you wish more people
• 1:24:01
  knew about Bitcoin? Definitely.
• 1:24:06
  But I've given up on trying to orange Pearl everyone around me.
• 1:24:14
  I started with this mentality and maybe there's some kind of
• 1:24:18
  fear left within me because I was like, yeah, many, many
• 1:24:23
  people were not listening to me because I got because I was.
• 1:24:29
  Yeah. But because my, because the
• 1:24:31
  message didn't, didn't click with them and I was rejected.
• 1:24:34
  Maybe this there's some kind of fear of rejection within it
• 1:24:39
  still. But I think the, the, the much
• 1:24:44
  more important part about it is that you can't force people to
• 1:24:49
  do something. It's not aligned with freedom in
• 1:24:52
  my mind. You can't tell them here, look
• 1:24:54
  at this, this is for you. This is the best you need to do
• 1:24:56
  it. And unless they they have the
• 1:25:00
  own interest, unless they they are interest by themselves, it
• 1:25:04
  won't help them. It's just just the just like
• 1:25:07
  like a Band-Aid for for for a huge wound.
• 1:25:11
  It won't won't do anything. They might buy some sets, but
• 1:25:14
  when, when the volatility kicks in, they, they are, they also
• 1:25:18
  quickly, quickly sell them again and feel uncomfortable with it
• 1:25:22
  and, and take even more time to, to have another look at this
• 1:25:26
  topic because they, they didn't probably have the, the imports
• 1:25:35
  themselves. They only did it because someone
• 1:25:37
  else told them to. And then you, you don't build
• 1:25:40
  conviction this way. So basically everyone around me
• 1:25:46
  knows I'm into Bitcoin And, and when they, the thing I do right
• 1:25:51
  now is tell, tell them if you're interested in this topic, I
• 1:25:55
  don't talk with me about it. I'd be delighted.
• 1:25:58
  But I, I don't proactively try to convince anyone who's a no
• 1:26:04
  corner to get into Bitcoin anymore.
• 1:26:08
  I don't, don't do that anymore because I don't, I know it's
• 1:26:13
  important that this should happen, but for me, it's not the
• 1:26:16
  the right thing. I just, I, I, as I said, I told
• 1:26:22
  everyone, I I'm into it and if you're interested, talk to me
• 1:26:26
  about it. Yeah, you, you can't, as Rhonda
• 1:26:31
  says, you can't save people from from their own suffering.
• 1:26:35
  And you got to you got to leave people be free to suffer.
• 1:26:39
  And and, you know, I'm sure I don't know if you're on Twitter
• 1:26:45
  or whatever. It was around the time you
• 1:26:47
  started shit coining and giving all your money to Michael
• 1:26:50
  Novogratz. You know, there might have been
• 1:26:53
  some people that were like, hey, man, don't know why.
• 1:26:56
  Like this is probably not the best idea, but, you know, you
• 1:27:01
  were free to suffer. Yeah.
• 1:27:03
  And that's, that's basically it. There's it comes from a similar
• 1:27:09
  idea. There's this quote.
• 1:27:11
  You can only lead a horse to the water, but you can't make him
• 1:27:14
  drink. It's kind of kind of the same.
• 1:27:19
  And it goes also back to what we're talking earlier about the
• 1:27:22
  altar diabetic learning. You have to grok it yourself.
• 1:27:26
  It's it's, it's not possible the other way.
• 1:27:28
  I mean, yeah, we have this like Prussian school system where
• 1:27:33
  people get put into a classroom and then they get confronted
• 1:27:37
  with all these so, so important topics and such.
• 1:27:40
  And yes, some, some things might stick.
• 1:27:44
  If you throw many, many things at the wall, something will
• 1:27:47
  stick, right? But there's, I don't think it's,
• 1:27:50
  it's the right way to, to learn things.
• 1:27:53
  I don't think it's, it's the right intention.
• 1:27:59
  It's, it doesn't, it doesn't help people.
• 1:28:01
  They, they, they need to, they need to do the, the work
• 1:28:06
  themselves. It's, it's like proof of work,
• 1:28:08
  right? You can't make them do it.
• 1:28:12
  It's got to be ground up man. And it's got to be based in, in
• 1:28:15
  truth, as you pointed out before.
• 1:28:19
  And you have to, you have to, it has to come from a place of
• 1:28:23
  truth and, and has to develop its own balance and alignment
• 1:28:28
  and coherence as it grows, as it scales, as it sort of evolves,
• 1:28:35
  develops, whether it's in the consciousness or in the
• 1:28:37
  community. And, and the only thing you can
• 1:28:42
  really do is just be yourself and be as best of an example as
• 1:28:48
  to others, you know, produce value, create value where you
• 1:28:51
  can distribute as much as you can.
• 1:28:53
  And don't get offended. Don't take it personally if, if
• 1:28:57
  people don't, don't vibe on it. I, I had an interaction recently
• 1:29:02
  with a guy and I was sure that he was going to get excited.
• 1:29:07
  You know, it was, it was, it was running kind of like a little
• 1:29:11
  hydro plant and it was struggling to come with funding.
• 1:29:15
  And I just happened to, it was completely unsolicited.
• 1:29:18
  So partly maybe my fault. I didn't develop the, the
• 1:29:21
  requisite rapport that I needed maybe.
• 1:29:24
  But as soon as I mentioned the word Bitcoin, he just switched
• 1:29:27
  off and, you know, thought I was trying to scam him.
• 1:29:29
  And no matter what I'd like, no matter how I framed it, you
• 1:29:33
  know, in a very gentle and polite way, it was.
• 1:29:37
  Like. Those two syllables, man.
• 1:29:39
  And he just fucking mind just went to and and and OK, cool,
• 1:29:44
  fine. And, and it did if it, it, it
• 1:29:47
  shipped me and I was a little bit despondent for a little
• 1:29:50
  while, but I had to realise it's it's not your place.
• 1:29:55
  It's not your place to. I didn't have his permission
• 1:29:59
  basically. And it's all right.
• 1:30:02
  It's all right. And I think it's, it's, it's
• 1:30:05
  important to have your to, to accept it, to have the
• 1:30:09
  acceptance that not everybody will crock it right now.
• 1:30:12
  Not, not everybody will see it the way you see it.
• 1:30:16
  And there's, there's peace in it, I think.
• 1:30:19
  But I find it, I find it so funny.
• 1:30:21
  The story you were talking about the guy with a with a hydro
• 1:30:25
  plant. I think it's similar to the to
• 1:30:27
  the movie in the Matrix. You know when when the agent
• 1:30:30
  Smith shows up, so many, so many people in in in the Fiat world.
• 1:30:36
  Once you once you mention Bitcoin, agent Smith takes over.
• 1:30:40
  You can see it in their faces. They switch their their
• 1:30:46
  expression, their expression switches like in an instant you
• 1:30:50
  had you had maybe like a really good connection.
• 1:30:53
  You were vibing on with a person.
• 1:30:56
  You had like interesting topics. And this is what I what I
• 1:31:00
  experienced once you, you mentioned the kind like
• 1:31:03
  something in their face in an instant it switches and they are
• 1:31:07
  they are only only defensive about it.
• 1:31:10
  Yeah, it's, it's it's shocking, man.
• 1:31:13
  But again, you, you can't take it personally.
• 1:31:15
  You just got to all right, cool. Not your time yet.
• 1:31:20
  You'll get there. It's it's like, it's like
• 1:31:22
  Michael J Fox or not Michael J Fox, Marty, Marty McFly in Back
• 1:31:26
  to the Future when he plays Rock'n'roll to the to the prom
• 1:31:31
  for the first time. He plays Chuck Berry or whatever
• 1:31:33
  it was. And then everyone's like staring
• 1:31:36
  and like, what the fuck was that?
• 1:31:38
  You know, I guess you guys are ready for that, but your kids
• 1:31:41
  are going to love it. What, Yeah.
• 1:31:45
  Does Bitcoin mean to you? What does Bitcoin mean to me?
• 1:31:51
  Bitcoin is hope, Bitcoin is truth.
• 1:31:56
  It sounds very cheesy. It sounds very Michael Saylor
• 1:32:00
  esque. I think he he said that a couple
• 1:32:02
  of times, but but it's it feels right to me.
• 1:32:06
  I would repeat it. Bitcoin is hope Bitcoin is truth
• 1:32:10
  and also optimism. What I wanted to Add all these
• 1:32:15
  bit corners I got to know through these meetups.
• 1:32:18
  No one is black belt. They all look positively towards
• 1:32:21
  the future. They are all have yeah, they
• 1:32:26
  they have this vision about the better future.
• 1:32:29
  They they don't think we're we're doomed.
• 1:32:30
  They don't think the world is ending as so many other people
• 1:32:35
  in in Fiat land do. And yeah, let's let's cut the
• 1:32:39
  sailor, even though he's right about truth and hope.
• 1:32:44
  But let's say Bitcoin is optimism.
• 1:32:47
  That's that's what Bitcoin is for me.
• 1:32:48
  Dig optimism. Yeah, man, 100 percent, 100%.
• 1:32:53
  There's an energy that that emanates from a Bitcoin and it's
• 1:32:56
  like, Yep, things might be turning to shit, but ultimately
• 1:32:59
  it's all perfect. It's all fine and we'll all you
• 1:33:03
  know. Yeah, we'll all be fine in the
• 1:33:05
  end, 100%. Yeah, we just slip off the tight
• 1:33:09
  shoe and hang around in purgatory for maybe a little bit
• 1:33:14
  and then, I don't know, We'll, we'll we'll come back.
• 1:33:17
  We'll see. What?
• 1:33:17
  See what's going on? Leon.
• 1:33:23
  Thanks so much man for spending some scarce time finite energy
• 1:33:27
  telling us the tale of how you discovered Bitcoin.
• 1:33:29
  It's been a honour and a pleasure man.
• 1:33:31
  And again, we kind of spun off into some woo woo stuff.
• 1:33:34
  And thanks everyone that's made it this far keeps on listening.
• 1:33:38
  I hope you got some value. DJ, thank you so much for this
• 1:33:44
  opportunity. Was a pleasure to.
• 1:33:48
  Yeah, talk about this. Yeah, to a bigger audience like
• 1:33:53
  yours. And thank you so much.