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Why I’d NEVER Raise Black Children In London · Babes, how did you get here

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We got it, just two suitcases each and no job, no way to live but we just made it work.
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When I got sick and tired of being sick and tired in London one day me and another cousin just
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thought why don't we try it? So that was sort of like summer 2016 and by October 2016 by January
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2017 we both just got on a plane and didn't look back. So you came here to continue pursuing your
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musical career. Yeah, I wanted to leave corporate. I was doing it part-time. I'd worked in different
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companies as a marketing executive. The last place I left was the Economist newspaper.
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So it was going well but just yeah I just felt like they needed to be a go-to teacher so she also
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quit yoga and she was actually in a media company as well. We've got one life. We can't just
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do you consider yourself black-red? I do. Just the transparency. I was born in the UK.
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Everybody want things that I was born in Jamaica. It feels like no more than ever. People
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are moving abroad in search of opportunity, freedom and reinvention despite the challenges that
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this might entail. I am April Jackson traveling the world that's speaking with interesting people
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who have chosen a life elsewhere. Kai Charles is a community leader, connector and founder
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of Black Girl in Dubai. She speaks honestly about the loneliness abroad, identity shifts and the
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quiet truth that no matter where you go you always meet yourself. Before we get into her story
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I have to ask babes. How did you get here? With two bags and a lot of hope from West London all the
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way to Dubai. It's been nine years and a lot of challenges but we're still here. Tell me had you
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been to Dubai before? I had. I had probably I think around 2000 and gosh I don't even remember.
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About five, six years before I actually moved which was 2017 and I loved it. I thought it was
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something that was quite different. Of course it's the Middle East but I felt a bit of the West
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here. I'd visited Spain, I'd gone to America and lots of other places but nowhere quite felt like
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here and for the first time I actually thought to myself I could live here. So being a true Londoner
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I was never really panning to leave but yeah five, six years later I had that itch that would not go
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away and I made the move. We're dropping new episodes every single week so make sure you subscribe
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you don't want to miss this babes and leave a comment and tell me what do you want to hear out of
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my next conversation. Your support really helps this community grow and if you know someone who's
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quietly been thinking should they take that next big leap babes send them the podcast.
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That first trip was just a holiday. It was. I have a cousin who still lives here now but
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a cousin who had moved and two friends who were actually gigging and touring with the late Amy
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Winehouse. So I thought if they're going to go on a tour and I can visit my cousin at the same time
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I'm coming on board. So yeah I came to visit and I absolutely loved it. I think it was 2011, 2012
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around that time. So yeah came and did about four or five days and that's when I was like okay
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this is why people talk about it. So yeah. What were your expectations versus your actual arrival?
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You know what I don't think I had any expectations because so my mum had visited before
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and it just sounded like a weird far away place in the Middle East. I mean I don't know. She
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talked about there being water foundtons everywhere and she loved it. It was a hot country to
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to visit and of course being from the Caribbean and being from the UK we always go to the cheap
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trips which are you know Europe or the Caribbean which is Grenada Trinidad or Jamaica.
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Dubai was never really part of that but when I actually got here it made sense what my mum was saying
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so I thought right there are water foundtons everywhere you know the beach obviously and just
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generally there is this I don't know it's still undescribable but there's this aura that makes
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what made me feel like I could live here versus anywhere outside been on holiday and you know you
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love it for the time that you're there five days or a week two weeks but at some point in time you
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miss your own bed you want to go home so yeah you just have a little magic spark to it I guess.
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Take me between the trip and the five years what changes what's going through your mind.
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So I did back in university days and coming into corporate world I did marketing and I also used to be
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a musician so I was doing my own independent music I also had an independent marketing and street
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team whilst juggling a part-time corporate job and I kind of just used to think this can't be it
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you know they had good grades did everything that you're supposed to do from school university
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got into the corporate world and I worked at some great companies as well and it just still just felt
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like this can't be it so I had these big ideas to travel to sing in other countries to get paid
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to sing in other countries because when I was in the UK I was doing a lot of independent stuff that
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I self-funded and a lot of gigs when you're trying to grind and get up there you're not necessarily
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paid for your independent stuff unless you want to get onto the corporate circuit and do you know
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a function band work and stuff like that and I think it's quite popular now but back then I knew
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people who were doing it but it wasn't the thing if you want to be an artist it's like you put that
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stuff behind what you're really doing and you show the artistry and you know what you want to do on
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TV but yeah I just thought I didn't want to go down that route ultimately learning all the songs
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that I had to learn when I came here but I thought if I'm going to go I may as well be abroad
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earn some money and come back and figure it all out so that's what I did eventually
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when I got sick and tired of being sick and tired in London one day me and another cousin just
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thought why don't we try it so that was sort of like summer 2016 and by October 2016 we'd both
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not really spoken to each other in depth but we'd both managed to book trips that were overlapping
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on October it's like okay when are you going when are you going okay I'm going to be there for
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this much time why don't we just go check it out so I had already been there that would have been
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my second trip or third trip and I was now coming with CDs business cards and just trying to meet
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people to land my first gig really and by January 2017 we both just got on a plane and didn't
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look back so you came here to continue pursuing your musical career yeah wanted to leave corporate
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I was doing it part-time I'd worked in different companies as a marketing executive
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was doing okay was doing quite good actually I was the last place I left was the economist
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newspaper okay so it was going well but just yeah I just felt like they needed to be more so I felt
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that if I came here I could do music and earn pretty much what I would earn full time in the UK
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and I did I came here my cousin is a yoga teacher so she also quit yoga and she was actually
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in a media company as well left that behind and thought she could do yoga full-time in Dubai so
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that's how we got here just two suitcases each and no job nowhere to live but we just made it work
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I have so many questions first of all when I think music career I think London would be better
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than Dubai a lot of people ask that they say why don't you go to America or why don't you stay in
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London so in the UK at that time since it looked like 10 years ago plus sure writing songs if you
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are able to get into a writing camp or work with labels and get paid for sessions yes it does work
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that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be doing it full-time because it might be one off
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here and there unless you're quite well connected and hooked up then of course you're going to get
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regular session work or even being a backup vocalist I knew a couple of friends who were
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gigging with any wine house but a few others who were on tour doing different things but that's
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kind of like when you're the cream of the crop when you're working that circuit I guess even like
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TV and radio you're doing a lot of leg work in turning building up your CV building up your own
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brand writing your own stuff rehearsing all of that stuff it's self-funded so you know I could have
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chosen to stay and go down the function bandrew and you know doing corporate gigs and weddings
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and it's not bad actually I do know some people now and even over the last few years they've
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actually started making serious money with that they've launched their own companies agencies
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and gotten into it that way but I think there's been a transition in the industry from being an
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artist and being a function band singer and doing you know corporate gigs and wedding gigs
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and again the great people on that make a lot of money but if you're not at the top of that then
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you're still making like the bare minimum and I think for a lot of artists it feels a little bit
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soul-destroy in doing that work if you're not at the top end of it because you're spending so much
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time trying to get the work and then doing the work and maybe not earning that much where you could
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be putting that into your own music artistry the rehearsals the recordings all of that stuff the
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mixing the mastering releasing the single the video like it's never ending so yeah myself and many
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others that I was around just felt like you want to put more into your artistry and be known for
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that as well because the more time you're putting into the other work is the more that people will
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know you for that and yes you can pay your bills and it's your bread and butter but then you know
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do people know you for the thing you want to be known as so I felt like coming to Dubai would be
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a good way to earn on the branch scene corporate bands I mean that's still a thing now but when I
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first came here in way before that there were so many musicians you know any hotel lobby that you
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walked into lots of restaurants like musicians were everywhere you still get that now but it's
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scaled back quite a lot since covid okay and so at the time for me singing in the sun just made sense
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like do I want to stay in the UK and be up and down the country long days you know maybe getting
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50 pound or 100 pound or 200 pound a gig when I can come to Dubai and do the same thing and you know
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sit in the sun that's what I thought that was my equation so yeah I packed up and thought why not
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try to make it work yeah when you say that you came literally two suitcases and you didn't have
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a plan or anywhere to live are are we being serious or yeah really serious so when I came in October
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and by the way I don't recommend this to other people but it's it's my story so I own it but it is
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something that and honestly I do hear a lot of people doing you know freelance work is obviously
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a lot more popular now again after covid people were working from home and have found many different
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ways to earn whether it's in that country or traveling abroad but again going back 10 years ago or
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before that it was just unheard of yes work from home is still a thing but it was kind of like
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those scam jobs or just things that didn't seem realistic everyone's like you know you need to get
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into an office or have a actual job job so coming out here it just sounded like it would make sense
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I already had a cousin that lived here who had been here maybe four five years before
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as a football coach and to say look if you come and it doesn't work out you can always go home
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so that encouraged me it still took me a few years to make the decision and the jump
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but eventually that's what I did I saved up maybe about four five thousand pounds
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and I knew that I was coming with our other cousin as well so we were going to be
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ultimately splitting the cost but yeah we knew we just have to get out here in network and
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graft so found an apartment in the first week and I laugh now but it really isn't funny we found
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an apartment in the first week paid way too much for it again when you're making quick decisions
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like that I think we gave ourselves about three four weeks to you know figure it out but when you're
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trying to figure it out on the go you need to make quick decisions so yeah I think on our fifth day
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we found an apartment before that we were in a hotel and I had family come as well because it
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was my sister's birthday so we knew that when they were checking out the hotel essentially I have
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to go into another hotel or into an apartment so there was a loose plan but it was a loose plan
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on a five day holiday and I knew they were getting back on the plane and I wasn't so yeah I found
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the apartment and then I was out connecting the networking so on my trip in October I was meeting
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people anyway and some of them I kept in touch with and most of them I didn't so they gave me a
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bit of background knowledge you know come check out this gig go speak to that person you know
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hand like you'll see these and stuff like that but ultimately you had to get out there and pound
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the pavement really and just network so you find the apartment do five yes I can see you're kind of
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adding this up go she sounds crazy no because I think what's interesting is I appreciate it was
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a few years ago but it's still a very kind of Hollywood-esque kind of story right that inspires
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many people and I appreciate they were saying that people shouldn't do it but there will be people
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who are listening in like you know I have particular dreams and there are some comfort in knowing
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that you didn't have it all mapped out because I think sometimes as human beings we can get very caught
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up in the planning that it almost paralyzes you into not making any decisions yes and so I just
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want to understand a little bit more about how it actually looks after the five day holiday the
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family is gone you and your cousin are moving into this place and when you say we're pounding the
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pavement we're going to hotels some of the places that you've seen singers yeah so the great
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thing was that so of course my cousin gave us a few numbers and said you know I know a person
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that does this and I know someone who does that and here which is something that I love about
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Dubai is you know we're all experts about 80 to 90 percent of people who actually live here five
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years 10 years plus come from somewhere else right the Emirati community is smaller so when
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you're meeting everyday people they have kind of already been in your shoes whether they came
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with their husband or wife with a job or they came to study or you know they work in the hotel
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industry whenever it may be everyone's got a story from somewhere else and they may be going back
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home or they may be moving to another part of the world and so coming from London where in my
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opinion most of my friends and family don't move around that much again when I was working at the
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economist my entire team the London team in subscriptions marketing were all from somewhere else
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so there was someone from Switzerland Geneva Poland India Hong Kong etc and I was the only
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Londoner on the London team now that's great because you know UK is very diverse but when I was
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leaving I thought how ironic is it that I'm in the London team and everybody here has also moved
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for their career maybe sometimes with a partner or sometimes solo but now I was coming to Dubai in
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that same environment where more or less everyone you know I have also met people been born and raised
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here but those people are human far between because a lot of them even when they are born and raised
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here move on to study or go and travel and live somewhere else you know at some point so coming here
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I found it easy to connect to people making deep connections and having friendships is another
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story but people were ready and willing to help because of that I find and you'll always find that
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you're bumping into someone who say oh I just got here last week I just got here last year I've been
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here for six months and you're always meeting people like that and it can be very transient at times
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depending on time of the year or how and when you met someone but other times you really do meet
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people who have been here 20 30 years and still willing to help because we all know the journey
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you know when you get a visa here you're here for two to three years or two years now the
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residency visa is and you keep renewing that you know there's there's other ways and vehicles to stay
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longer and so forth but ultimately everyone knows what it's like especially after COVID I mean obviously
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this not when I came but so many people left during that period and a lot of people have you know come
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in and restarted and I just think we keep getting this regeneration of hungry energy and people who
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are grinding and grafting to be here so I went out and started you know giving out my business cards
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no one actually even wanted my CDs because they weren't even using CDs at that time
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they were a bit ahead and still are to be honest with you is like we don't need CDs but show us
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you know your videos the MP3s or whatever I did one or two auditions but honestly not that many because
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Dubai runs on WhatsApp I mean not just here I think many places but it runs on WhatsApp so whether
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you use it or you don't that is how things are communicated you can order a coat from the shop
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downstairs you can you know book something speak someone from your bank there's so much stuff
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that you can do here for business and for pleasure and I spoke to a lot of agents through WhatsApp
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and they were like yes send us your website your pictures etc and we'll put you on our books and
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and I thought at first it's too easy or that I wouldn't get a callback and of course that is
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quite nerve-racking but the serious ones or the ones who generally had good gigs for me and I had
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a good show reel they called back and was like you know we've got a client who has a wedding or
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we've got this was your rates and it picks up from there can you have multiple agents is not
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exclusive yeah you can I had multiple agents and I don't know if anyone really operates on
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exclusivity and I personally wouldn't recommend anyone to do that at the same time I actually
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think Dubai can be quite doggy dog anyway in a good way but also in the opposite negative way that
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you know you really got to keep your eyes open and make sure that you're on your toes to stay on
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top of opportunities but for me especially in the musician space I found that if I couldn't do a
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gig because I was booked where I wasn't feeling well or something happened you know you pass on a
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gig to someone and it always comes back around to you and vice versa I filled gigs for people
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that probably didn't even know me but you know you just get a call from someone hey we need a singer
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are you available on this Tuesday and I'm like yes thank god so is it easier here to penetrate
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that world than London in my opinion I would say yes if you're not afraid to get out there to
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audition to sing yeah I do think so I think the hard thing for me that I always struggled with
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and police still do was learning the songs because when I came here as I mentioned from London I
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didn't really want to be in that world so I knew songs you know I know the Whitney Houston's
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and the Amy Winehouse and the Riefer Franklin's but that didn't mean I wanted to sing them word
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for word and you know gig every night but when I came to Dubai I quickly realised that singing
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Brandi and Aliyah was not going to cut it I was like I could sing you know I want a bit no they don't
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want to sing they want to hear even if they knew the songs those are not the songs that you know
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the average punter wants to hear in a restaurant or in a hotel you've got to sing the really
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popular stuff so I then had to really lock in and start learning the you know the pop classics at
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the time you know whether it was Ed Sheeran or do a Lee Powell or whoever there was just a bunch
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of songs that no matter what band you ended up in you're going to be probably singing these over
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and over again different styles different renditions um depending on the gig you might be doing
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a little bit of jazzy stuff I mean that's not my genre but again depending on the client they might
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want you to kind of twist it up um and then yeah you just you just got to make it work if I'm
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honest with you did you feel like you were sacrificing the artistry that you were passionate about
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absolutely so I mean I don't sing anymore I just land that part but for a few different reasons
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but yeah throughout that time I mean firstly I knew that I was coming here definitely for a year
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okay it's been nine years now but I knew it would definitely be for a year and I knew that I was
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coming not to make friends I wanted to focus do the music make the money go home so I really made
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it intentional to visit home I went home about three four times in my first year okay thankfully
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by the grace of God and then I just stayed home learning songs when I wasn't at gig or rehearsals
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I was learning songs I was doing your Motown songs your R&B hits your pop hits I was doing all of that
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stuff and just learning it until I could sing it in my sleep some songs you like more than others
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of course and other songs you're like I cannot wait to start singing this um Christmas songs
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absolutely hated singing because it's so seasonal as well okay it's like you put in all that effort
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and then you're gonna sing it for like two weeks and then it's gonna be you know over with so
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that's what I struggled with but I think if you really like that side of it or if you're good at
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that anyway or if you don't mind it then learn you know the top 40 60 100 songs and then you can
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get out there and gig and I think it's the same for dancers as well if you can pick up routines
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and choreograph really really quickly and easily or if you enjoy that side of it then you can come
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out here and you can learn stuff whether it's the regular booked work weekly or monthly or you
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you know drop into someone's gig that you know is ill or whatever then you can pick up the work
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why do you decide to stop singing so my first year honestly was quite a challenge I didn't
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realise how seasonal Dubai was so it was Ramadan around May June at that time and during that
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period I mean I knew what Ramadan was in the UK but everything doesn't stop so coming to the UAE
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and just landing in January you know landing my first gig after a few weeks getting onto that cycle
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I didn't realise that in a few months of that momentum things would pause so it was a nice
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welcome in terms of a break and arrest but I still need to pay rent I still need to have income
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coming in and my own savings had started to dwindle of course so that was one of the things
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that I think threw me and of course it picks up again so straight after Ramadan I was able to get
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work that went straight into the summer again in the summer time some things kind of pause and
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just wait until September October when it picks back up again I didn't know that so in my first
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year thankfully I was able to ride that wave and then of course Christmas New Year very big you can
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land really well-paid work then year two I'm thinking this can't be the same pattern I need to
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pick up extra stuff so I actually met someone who ended up in my business partner for a few years
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in an events and social dining experience and that went well up until COVID so two to three four
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years of that and when COVID here I mean yes the work and the gigs were coming in from both
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income streams but everything paused of course for at least three to four months in terms of like
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restaurants and hotels and everything you know no events no weddings etc but then when things started
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to open back up again the restrictions on hotels and restaurants were quite strict so musicians were
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still not really included in that period because they just needed to get people in and serve them
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stick to the restrictions so it was probably about a year of no music and when it came back the
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immediate thing was you had to get a vaccine so as soon as the news was out immediately I think a
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lot of DJs and solo artists could work because they were willing to get the jab immediately and you
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know could book tonight for example if they were like right we can have a DJ seven o'clock are you
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willing to come in show us your vaccine papers there were some people going yeah got it yesterday
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or whatever the case may be and I just didn't want to be under that kind of pressure
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and then I also knew a lot of people who hadn't worked for the year so some had gone back home whether
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it was Nigeria Brazil Cuba London and those that had stayed being a British expert I was fortunate
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enough to have different revenue streams and I think for other people it wasn't as easy so
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if there were gigs that I couldn't do or wouldn't do with or without the vaccine I just passed it
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onto other people and at some point in time I just thought you know it'll come back around and
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eventually I could get back into events myself and so that's what I did I just kind of put the music
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to the side and if I'm honest I was a bit burnt out from both revenue streams anyway because I
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started doing more of the corporate and wedding work and that's human far between but it's much
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better paid and then when you're doing the residency work I found sometimes that it wasn't some of the
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hotels and restaurants that I was working with wouldn't stick to they would sign you up to like a
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three or six month contract but if you break it there's a penalty but if they break it they're just
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like sorry we can't pay you this week and move on so I don't want to keep doing gigs like that because
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it was too spontaneous there was no stability and so I focused more on the events that I was
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doing with my business partner but even then that became like a six day a week thing okay
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and I was ready for a break so when COVID came I was happy to sit in my house chill give my
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mind a break from people and songs and all of that stuff and then when it restarted I knew that
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things had shifted in the world I think a lot of people just thought it would go back to normal
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I knew of course as we know it did not go back to normal it was a new normal and whatever that
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looked like I knew that I had to diversify what I was doing and look for other ways to make money
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did you enjoy COVID honestly I really did yeah I stayed in Dubai I didn't leave there were quite a
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few people who decided to go home before they closed the borders because I didn't think London
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was going to be a better environment if I'm honest I knew I was safe here and I always feel safe
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in Dubai whether that is from crime or just generally I can walk at two three four o'clock in the
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morning if I want to and do whatever so being here in lockdown I felt that I was living on my
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own by then because at first myself and my cousin lived together for a few years and then I just
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moved into my own apartment so having that space and being independent was really important to me
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if I went back home I knew I'd be with family as well when I'd also be safe but I wasn't really
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sure if I could trust what was on the headlines and if I could trust what the UK government
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were doing because I think they were so late to everything and the current the then prime minister
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wasn't serious about life so I was like if I stay in Dubai I could at least trust the leadership here
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and just keep myself to myself my my business so I just yeah I just did that really and I was
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video calling home all the time as well when the updates coming from here in fact my mum was here
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with me in February just before the lockdown and she was one of the people who managed to fly out
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before the flights and stuff started getting cancelled so it's kind of like all the updates and
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information was coming from our side before UK was implementing it and then I'm like yeah the
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schools are closing yeah this is happening this is happening and then eventually it happened
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in the UK so you said that that first year you went home about three or four times was that the plan?
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I always said I'd be back on board I didn't give it a number but I always still now I want to
27:55
stay connected to everyone and everything back home so whether that's calls visits or anything else
28:02
I try to do that as much as I can when you go home is home different after living here not necessarily
28:08
in that first year when it's the fresh but having lived here for nine years when you return to the UK
28:12
do you perceive things differently do things that you once thought were normal do they know stand out
28:19
as bizarre yeah I think even on my first trip so what I landed my first gig in year one I was
28:25
only here I think a month so I used my return ticket back to UK to get more clothes and things
28:30
in my suitcase and as soon as I went back in the first month I felt there was a shift because
28:36
of course I've now done the brave thing I've gone to another country and I wasn't saying I've
28:40
moved because it was only a month but I had already secured something and found somewhere to live
28:46
so it felt doable whereas before it felt really impossible and untouchable then over the years I
28:52
think each time I went back there was always subtle shifts and changes I think you know people get
28:58
older and look different and stuff like that but then I just found especially after COVID that
29:04
everything just looked a lot older and so high streets you know a lot of shops and banks have gone
29:12
and the cost of living globally I think inflation has gone up but I think in the UK specifically
29:17
and I'm from West London so there were certain parts that I was visiting and I'm like where's
29:22
all of those shops gone like 3 4 5 shops in a row had just closed down banks and post offices
29:28
that had been there for literally decades since I was a child gone so I think my last few visits
29:34
in the last two years have been more dramatic than the beginning periods you know people get
29:40
taller and lose weight and the illnesses and all sorts of things happen and developments new builds
29:45
and stuff like that but I just think it's slower it's it's slower because of what's happening there
29:53
and then at the same time Dubai is getting faster so I feel like that gap is it widening yeah and you
29:59
as a person how is Kai different the Dubai Kai versus the London Kai I've grown so much here in
30:10
the last nine years that I've been here I'm different because you know I didn't know I was doing
30:17
self-development a bit in the UK I attend seminars and read books and stuff like that but come in
30:24
here and literally be enforced to do stuff on your own you know setting up a business again which I
30:29
did in the UK but it's easier when everything's local to you coming here and doing things ultimately
30:35
I'm not reading Arabic but everything is primarily Arabic first and then English second and English
30:42
obviously is you know a primary language as well but I just I didn't realise I could do the things
30:48
that I could do after I done them if that makes sense and there were things that I probably didn't
30:51
even think about so moving and living on my own of course I would think I would do that in the UK
30:56
but I don't think I'd be doing that abroad you know I thought I'd do a year and come back and I'd
31:02
been here nine years now when did you decide that it wasn't going to go back after the year was there
31:07
a particular thing a feeling I think probably two to three years in because like I said time just
31:14
goes really fast here so in my first year I didn't really think I'd accomplished or achieved much
31:19
because it was so stop and start you know I just got there just landed stuff got settled
31:25
it's Ramadan now it's the summer now we've got to wait for the kids and everybody to return in
31:30
September October okay now it's Christmas so by the time you feel like you can exhale it's 2018
31:35
right so now you're like okay now we've got to do over here but then by that time 2018
31:41
leads you into 2019 you're going yeah it's great and obviously we didn't know at the time but
31:45
there was signs creeping up to covid so even in the first two to three years you're like okay well
31:50
maybe I'll do one more year covid came right and of course nobody expected anything we are locked
31:56
down for whatever what is a lockdown please I was like I don't watch the news okay we're not feeding
32:01
into negativity and the next minute everything like that so I'm like okay so we already looked
32:07
down okay fantastic so even then it's like everything had to start over and I think because I was
32:15
going back and forth to the UK anyway I kind of felt like even if I was to go back where would I
32:21
start I'm gonna have to start again from scratch so whether it was with my market and business or
32:26
music or going back into corporate I'd have to start from scratch I mean I'm sure some companies
32:31
would love that I had international experience but my experience at that time I didn't think
32:36
would translate from so you've worked and lived abroad and now you can put that into corporate
32:41
there are kind of two different things because thankfully the whole time I've been here I've never
32:45
done corporate in Dubai so I think I was always worried about how that would translate back into
32:50
the job market or what I would set up if I was going to be an entrepreneur like starting from scratch
32:57
why do you say that thankfully you haven't entered the job market sorry the corporate market for
33:01
someone and I ask only because I've never had a corporate job but I do I was talking about
33:05
this just this afternoon and I was like a part of me would love one really in theory I do like
33:12
parts of it I like the stability of it yes I like the idea of infrastructure and sometimes even as
33:20
an entrepreneur when you have big dreams you might have big dreams what your pocket small so you
33:25
have to adapt how you execute things based on realistically what can you afford to do and sometimes
33:32
I like the idea of stepping into a boardroom and discussing budgets and the budgets have bigger
33:38
zeros on them than what I'm used to babes and then my friend was like April take it easy be patient
33:46
because there is no way you would survive but I would love to hear from your perspective why
33:50
you think that the corporate structure isn't for you yes so you know it's so funny when I finished
33:55
university I went into corporate and I was in subscriptions marketing so the company that
34:05
it was originally V&U and then went into being bought out by Nielsen company and they are the ones
34:10
that own the data and run billboard magazine Hollywood reporter and the book seller so those were
34:16
the three magazines I worked on and I was made redundant in the big crash okay so I wasn't even
34:22
working with them for long but got maybe redundant so it sounds great you're like are they paid me
34:26
out I've been maybe done didn't yeah you've got some money but then it happened again a few years
34:30
later and so being maybe redundant was already as a millennial was already part of my identity where
34:37
I felt like okay you've got a job at some point in time you obviously you can get the sack or you
34:42
could be maybe redundant which is a legal thing and yes they might pay you out and blah blah blah but
34:46
it's not secure and then I was poached went into another company hated it didn't feel like I was
34:53
treated right or being heard because I feel like when you get interviewed for jobs they say what
34:58
they're looking for but then you go into the job and it's like by the way Sally left there's no notes
35:03
open the folder figure it out and you know you find one or two people on the team who are happy
35:07
to help you along the way but they've got their job as well so they can't hold your hand so you get
35:11
you know two or three days of notes and a bit of training then you wing it the rest of the way right
35:15
and you're so where is Sally come back right and then now you're like this is where she left
35:21
Sally gone she gone to the back ultimately I actually had fantastic bosses and whatever the
35:27
reasons were that those people left fine but I was and I'm always a fast learner anyway but I was
35:32
used to getting into a job picking up quickly but I find they would say to you oh we need this
35:36
down the oven we like ideas and we like this you like that you get into the job there's no room for
35:40
ideas there's no room for restructure it's just get in do the work do the reports this is what you
35:45
got to do so obviously that's what they're paying you for but I found that because I'd been maybe
35:50
done a few times because I'd been in structures where I wasn't able to be myself based on the
35:55
interview that they hired me for you just I just would get bored I'd get bored you know three to six
36:02
months or maybe a year in and I'm thinking this can't be it so same by the time I was moving to
36:06
Dubai going through several jobs redundancies or not I'm just I'm like this is what was supposed
36:12
to do to be retired it cannot be it seriously and so you know different jobs different companies
36:18
I worked at the economist which actually was the only company that had I had not had a bigger
36:24
desire to move to Dubai I probably would still be at okay because they were all about training
36:28
they were all about they do what they say on the tin they're independent newspaper they they
36:33
write about the stories people care about and they give it an analytical angle and I like that
36:38
I mean I wasn't in journalism but I liked representing that brand because I think that someone
36:43
that I that integral to my character as well that I've later learnt do you think you just got to
36:48
that job too late if you had got to that job perhaps a couple before no so I was still in
36:54
subscription so a couple of jobs that I've been in have been subscriptions marketing so basically
36:59
a magazine of some kind that is being sold to other corporates and companies and my team and
37:05
department was marketing it to get people to buy the magazine so when I had moved to the economist
37:11
newspaper which looks like a magazine but it is called the newspaper I was still in subscriptions
37:17
so I was doing what I knew how to do from other companies but it just wasn't my thing if that
37:24
makes sense and I think now I know myself more I always felt that I was the problem like I'm just
37:30
not getting it like I just I don't know enough so me try harder but actually I just wasn't doing
37:34
the thing that I'm passionate about I was good at it but it just wasn't resonate and so you go in
37:39
you do what you're going to do you're trying to make things work and then I would just get bored
37:44
and and actually one of my bosses who was from Geneva was Maverundant so I'd seen it I got into
37:52
the business she got me in four days a week amazing I did two days at home two days in the office
37:56
and everyone was like how did you negotiate that but about three months in to remove my boss
38:03
so again I'm thinking distillate safe I mean I was safe because I was not as high up as she was
38:08
and they were getting rid of that management level but I'm seeing this whole team restructure
38:13
and now I'm like well I only came to work with my boss because I worked with her in another company
38:17
I mean it's a now I'm like I'm hearing a big big corporate job that I'd even want to be in
38:21
I'm being paid right working part-time two days in the office two days I'm like this is still
38:27
do you know what I mean so this itch was there and although they were encouraging the training
38:33
and everything like that I would have stayed if I didn't want to come to Dubai but because they
38:38
were so big on personal development and helping you to get to the next level of your career if I
38:43
wanted to move to America for example I could have transitioned and stayed in the team but just
38:47
been on the U.S. team that's not why I wanted and I think those are the kinds of things that
38:52
Dubai has helped me to realize like walking your own path and creating your own lane because I
38:57
could have just stayed in the UK and just okay I've got a decent job I've got a full-time wage
39:02
I'm only doing four days blah blah blah but that just still it wasn't enough I thought I just
39:07
can't do this for another five ten years what were you looking for well at the time I was doing
39:12
music so I thought it was music and I had a street team on the side which was a marketing business
39:17
outside event stuff so I could implement my ideas there whether it was with the street team
39:22
promoting and doing flyers and concerts or in music I you know I was expressing myself through
39:27
my art right and the dream at the time was you know to be on stages and to you know use my voice
39:33
and stuff but when I moved to Dubai I was doing that but now I'm singing other people's songs
39:39
and I still can't really talk or say what I want to say so I also felt like I yes I was earning
39:46
and I was performing but I still wasn't being fulfilled so cutting it from Covid didn't really I
39:53
didn't miss anything I felt I have been able to build my own platform and use my voice in other
39:59
ways and evolve that way when you tell your family and friends that you're moving to Dubai what's
40:03
the reaction I think a few of them thought it wasn't gonna happen okay yeah not because they
40:09
doubted me but it just sounds like a very grandiose thing to do I have one friend who never said
40:16
it at the time but years later I just thought I was gonna come for a year and then be like okay I'm
40:22
done with it and come back and then each year I just didn't so after I think five years they
40:27
were very confused yeah they were like I really thought you were gonna like queer at some point
40:31
and and with all the respects I've probably done that in other areas of my life start something
40:35
quits start something quits but yeah Dubai was one of those places that I knew at least I wanted to
40:40
try before I had children before I had like solid commitments in London and even if I did go back
40:45
I could at least say I've done it and not that I wish I tried it so yeah do as people come to Dubai
40:51
for a few years and leave yeah I think everyone's reasons are different I think everyone is coming
40:57
to an opportunity or chasing something or sometimes even running away from something I knew I was
41:02
coming to opportunity for music and I was willing to do the work to get there I think with some
41:10
people you know a lot of them from the UK come as a teacher or maybe for business and it's very
41:17
different from teaching in the UK and it's also very different for business so I really think it's
41:22
a city of like survival of the fittest if you could do one year five years ten years it just shows
41:29
I know you're not a teacher but when you said about teaching it made me think about
41:33
there's a little playground where we're seeing and I take the girls to and I said to my friend
41:39
a couple days ago I was like the children here are very strange in the sense that
41:45
people are like losing their minds over very small things like a ball went over the fence
41:50
and the little boys about three years old and he is immediately screaming like so he's just been
41:55
kicking and having fun with the ball it's just gone over the fence it's not disappeared into thin air
42:00
it's just over the fence might also went and got it for him but even before there was time to
42:05
explain or compute that he has immediately gone into full on tantrum the other daughter is
42:10
staring like what is actually going on the I think it's his mother a lady is approaching him like
42:16
you know there's no need to cry and it just felt like a very overstimulating I'm an adult and
42:22
I was overstimulated there was a lot going on but my point is that's not one person that is like
42:27
the whole park every second a child is going crazy and so when you say teaching here is different
42:33
my immediate thought is I don't think I could ever I mean I don't think I could be a teacher right
42:36
disclaimer but I'm very particular about like sound I've realized post children so
42:43
touch wood my children have never had a tantrum they're honestly the best children you'll ever
42:48
meet and I know most people you either say that's what your kids or you think they're the devil
42:52
whichever but I'm on the the side of team my children are the best and I tell people all the time
42:57
because sometimes you get offended when they hear me say things like that I'm like if you don't
43:01
think your child is the best I feel sorry for you picnic right and that's not my problem that's
43:04
yours but anyway moving on the point is when I see these things I'm just I I could never imagine
43:09
being in a classroom setting and this is the energy it's like literally the toys look like
43:15
them are is ready to fly out to the prom yeah you know so the UAE and and device specifically is
43:22
like a melting pot of like 200 different nationalities so coming from London with diverse great but
43:30
here is even more diverse and I think there's so many different cultures and so many different
43:34
styles and people raise their kids very different to how I was raised as a black British Caribbean
43:43
child so all of this screaming and carrying on can't run ever not even as an adult so like even for
43:51
me sometimes I'm thinking I could hit noise after nine o'clock and I understand what is going on
43:55
in the corridor in the pot anyway then kids need to be seen and not heard that's what we grew up
44:00
here right now though I think parents in this very different not just here but I think I don't
44:06
know I hear these terms gentle parenting and stuff like that you know people don't hit their kids
44:10
anymore to be fair I didn't get hit much when I was a child I didn't need a hit correct my dad just
44:14
looked at me correct and I knew in that moment stop what you're doing right I'm like three or four
44:20
slacks and I was a child and probably when I was teenage because I was getting a bit face-deed you know
44:23
I mean but growing up my mom didn't really all my parents it really need to hit us so similar to
44:29
you knew the look right and the tone of voice because if I'm repeating myself for the third time
44:34
do not make me come over there that was that kind of my dad always calls me boops and in Jamaica
44:40
boops means like the woman going to call the money so she boops you yes so he must have known
44:44
that I was going to be an expensive child but if he calls me April babes stop just whatever you
44:51
doing finish just stop I don't need more than that it's literally just my real name and you know
44:57
there's time to show respect yes exactly I think that's gone I don't think kids today are
45:05
grown up with that the Gen Z the Gen Alphas is it's not the same so yeah that's that's part of it but
45:11
also I think to buy specifically and even the UAE or maybe this region of the world
45:17
there is a safety that we have here and it's not the same so I feel like if you have grown up in
45:23
the UK you can absolutely live here and be freer but I feel like kids that are grown up here struggle
45:30
when they go to other parts of the world because the environment is a different you've got to be
45:34
a lot more vigilant and on your toes and just be aware of your surroundings and peripheral and
45:39
crime and all sorts of stuff so I mean obviously those kids were tiny in the park and you know
45:44
have intentions but I just think there is a different environment that allows
45:50
comfortability in another way and that might lend to why some of those kids are behaving the way
45:56
that they are I think you bring up a really interesting point about and almost if you grow up
46:01
in this environment you take it for granted right because even I've been traveling and I wouldn't
46:06
leave my handbag on the front seat of the car even whilst driving right in certain places because
46:11
I'm advised by people who are from these places don't do it not because I'm some sort of paranoid
46:16
person and then I come to Dubai and I must say the luxury of not thinking about that right
46:22
my my friend if I'm coming to see her the door is open right a delivery is always at the front
46:27
you don't need to worry if somebody's going to take your delivery that is is very nice very now
46:33
and it does in a way like if that's your life all the time I can only imagine if you go to like
46:39
a proper city I said proper a city where that is not the case you will have the shock of your life
46:45
absolutely you know how much sounds I've left my front door open I've left the key in my
46:50
boot of the car running off somewhere in someone else's car and you come back the next day
46:54
I'm thinking where's my keys and it's because the day before I left it open in the car or doing
46:59
something or I've had people just leave things outside the house in the UK you may do that but only
47:05
if you're telling the driver to hide it underneath the bin under the rock next to the tree and
47:12
really disguise that no one should really be going to look there right but here you can just say
47:17
it's they may just leave the dry clean outside or leave the Amazon package or leave whatever it is
47:21
the food shopping the water just anything can be left outside and you couldn't maybe not even be
47:25
in the country and I've seen my neighbours have stuff left outside the house for like two days for
47:29
example because they're abroad or they're working in Abu Dhabi and it's safe outside because I'm
47:34
not going to touch it and nobody else on the land is going to touch it so yeah it's a different kind
47:39
of luxury here that obviously adults and kids get to experience and it's also one of the reasons
47:46
why I wouldn't go back is safety top on the list when we're considering where we want to live
47:51
for me now yes I don't have children yet but if and when I'm going to have them I think I mean
47:57
it still might not be Dubai forever but I think it has to be a top priority and I think it's not
48:04
because UK's gotten really bad in a certain period of time I think there's always been
48:09
crime and violence and stuff like that on the streets robberies whatever but because of the scale
48:15
of it now daylight and all sorts of stuff I just think it's not I probably didn't think about it as
48:21
much as I do now whereas today in the state of life that I am I just think for as hard as we work
48:29
and for how crazy the world can seem at times I actually need soft life permanently and that
48:35
does not include being in London London is not soft like to me were there any things that you
48:42
weren't expecting in terms of adjustment not necessarily good or bad but just noticing a way of
48:47
life here that was perhaps a little bit different to what you're used to I mean I don't know really
48:58
I mean there's so many things because of the heat and the the sand we're ultimately in a desert
49:02
right so I think I didn't really ever get used to there being the amount of growth and construction
49:12
that is there certain parts you know they're finished and other areas are still you know having
49:17
ongoing developments and I think even now we're seeing a lot more of it because the city in the
49:22
last two years even has had enough of two million people become residents so when you know numbers
49:28
like that and you kind of realise okay we have to widen the roads we have to have the bridges
49:32
we need the new hotels I don't know if we need that many beach clubs but there's so many things that
49:37
are coming up the new property developments and stuff like that and so I kind of feel like now
49:41
the cat's out of the bag and everyone's trying to move here but it honestly as it's always been
49:45
that way it's just accelerated a bit more now and yeah because I feel like I'm surprised that
49:52
people still always want to move here not because they shouldn't want to but I feel like there was a
49:55
time probably about nine years ago where everybody really did want to be here yeah I think it's
50:03
just gotten louder I think before people wouldn't really consider the Middle East for any reason okay
50:08
and now I think conditions in the West not just the UK but I think the West in general has
50:14
become so expensive also constrained and there's many things that are overlapping and I think
50:20
people are just waking up and realizing that they can be anywhere I mean are my grandparents
50:25
did it from Jamaica moving to the UK in the 50s through the Windrush generation they migrated
50:34
and never left the UK right built a life that we now have the privilege of experiencing with
50:39
the British passport and all of those things and of course being British but at the same time I
50:45
think some of us felt like well that's life and that's it whereas again when I was at you know
50:52
the economist and other places that I've worked there are so many people who come to London
50:56
stay two or three years move somewhere else and and they move around so I just think sometimes
51:02
people in the West take that for granted and don't realise that they can get on a plane and if you
51:06
don't like where life is in one place you can start over somewhere else you you like we've got one
51:11
life we can't just sit and hope that is going to get better do you consider yourself black British
51:17
I do yes black British Caribbean I would love for you to explain this to me because
51:23
and I'm probably going to get myself in trouble no it's good I love these kind of conversations
51:27
whenever I hear the term black British a part of me laughs on the inside and just for transparency
51:34
I was born in the UK everybody want things that I was born in Jamaica okay
51:38
blood
51:44
blood is black gold and green but I was born in the UK I first went to Jamaica at six weeks I went
51:50
to preschool in Jamaica perhaps school high school whatever and so I say that to say perhaps
51:55
I'm looking through that lens of having grown up where people for example in England that say
52:00
where you from is in your heritage because they don't want to offend me I said no no no