Latest / The On Purpose Podcast / Ep. 370 – Dr. Michelle Harris: Who Are You Beyond the Role?

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Ep. 370 – Dr. Michelle Harris: Who Are You Beyond the Role? · The On Purpose Podcast

• speaker-0: You are listening to the On Purpose Podcast. What's up, everybody? Welcome to this week's edition of the show where you know it's our job to get you thinking, get you moving, get you looking in that mirror and going, wait a second, do I do I know this person anymore? Am I that person I thought it was? And this week I'm pumped. I've been excited for this conversation for a bit now with Dr. Michelle Harris, a behavioral expert, speaker, author, and founder of a new health solutions. Who has spent more than 20 years helping leaders and organizations understand what's happening beneath performance, the pressure to over reliance, I really want to talk about that, unclear boundaries, emotional load that often go unseen by the people in the positions. And what I love about her is the heart of her work is a truth that came from herself. That you can be strong, successful, and deeply committed to others. without getting lost in the shadows. And I'm excited to bring her on and share her knowledge with you. But before we do, please do me a favor, get over to YouTube, hit that subscribe button. Cause just that little thing right there might help us find somebody that didn't know they needed to hear this conversation today. So you help us out. We appreciate you so much. And my newest friend Dr. Michelle Harris, welcome to the show. speaker-1: Thank you so much for having me today. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you today. speaker-0: Let me ask you this. I I love one, I wanna thank you. First off, let me start with my thank you. Thank you for going what you went through what you went through. speaker-1: Thank you. speaker-0: Finding who you were beyond the position, but then more importantly, having that courage to put that out to the world so that they can learn from what you went through. speaker-1: Yes, thank you. Thank you so much. And you know, being able to have the space of where I am now, I could say it was not easy. going through this journey of, you know, you're that person that's the helper, you the person that's the leader, you the person that everyone can count on. You know, many times we feel like we have to hide behind the mask. We have to continually show forth. And so I'm grateful for us to be able to have this discussion. I'm grateful that you create this platform for people to be able to see everyday people and to say, okay, I can identify and say, okay, because there are a lot of people that are going for day to day and they are going, they're performing, they're serving, they're leading, but they are dealing in a place. So I'm just grateful that you have this platform, Drada, in this place. For us to be able to have this discussion. So I'm grateful today. speaker-0: yeah, grateful's such a good word, right? It's hard to it's hard to have a bad day when you're grateful for what's in front of you. speaker-1: Yes. Definitely. Definitely. speaker-0: All right, Michelle, if you could describe for yourself not what you do but who you are, what would you say? speaker-1: Would say, you know, I am a person now who had to really discover who she was again. ⁓ I'm a person now that's truly able to say, okay, when I wake up, I really feel like I'm on purpose. ⁓ and that took a journey of you know, me really going through a place where I had to realize that so much I give to other people. the advice I give to people so much that I had to begin to start turning that on myself. So I'll just go just a little bit of a backstory of, you know, a little bit of my background. ⁓ like I said, you know, you gave the wonderful titles, you know, of of where I am. But I am a little girl from a little town called Gaffney, South Carolina. And, you know, growing up, I was very loved. But also in the household, you know, we had different rules, regulations that we had to deal with, go through. ⁓ you were taught that you needed to be strong. You know, my mom, even though my dad was in the household, definitely was a provider, but my mom was definitely the leader. She definitely took the lead on making sure we went to school, making sure that everything was done. And also, you know, we even things that I may have dealt with, it was like you just gotta keep pushing. So those were a lot of things that were ingrained in me even growing up. And also I've always been this person that people talk to. You know, I was that person people can laugh, but you know, I've always been that. And so, you know, going into high school while I got into the field was that, you know, my mom dealt with a mental health episode. And one of the things that I noticed during that time, you know, because I was 17 years old at the time, scared, all of that, and the church didn't know how to handle it. And it was one of the things that was kind of like a stigma a little bit, I would say, because you know, people know how to go to get prayer for this, cancer, all these things. But when you talk about mental health, it's kind of a thing, they don't know how to address it. So definitely dealt with a lonely place in that. But the social worker was so nice. So I was like, ⁓ my gosh, this lady, you know, out of all the people, the way that she, you know, talked to us. you know, was nice, all those things. I was like, there's something about that. So I decided, you know, I wanted to go to, you know, major in social work. Teacher told me not to. Long story short, I had to go through a journey of having a 1.99997 in college. And almost dropping out. Ended up going back and majoring in social work. And that has been my Journey to get to where I am to be in mental health. ⁓ working in mental health, I have worked for over 20 plus years in all sectors. And one thing that I will say is that mental health does not discriminate. I have worked with those who are in high profile that don't want their notes written down to those that dealing with you know low-income families trying to navigate the system. And one thing that I noticed is that it does not discriminate. So over these years, you know, of me helping so many people, I am also that person who served in church. So I knew how to be able to serve, do ministry, all these things. And I am also that friend that they will call to say, Hey, how you doing? You know, I need to run this back, you, you know, real quick. So, you know, I'm I'm doing all these things. But, you know, when the things begin to start shifting for me, you know. I began to start seeing, you know, I was in mental health for 20 plus years. And in that time I began to start doing various areas, you know, clinical directing over a mental health agency. And then also, you know, I began to start doing behind the scenes work, but I would say more of an organizational perspective wherein I would go out and do fraud, you know, investigations, quality reviews, and I really love that piece as well. So I began to start doing my own private practice ⁓ in 2015, 2016, part-time while I was doing that. So I wanted to be able to have the best of both worlds because I did love doing therapy. But I also noticed that over time, beginning in 2015, going up to 2019, that things began to start getting a little heavy for me, but I could not understand. ⁓ Life was at a place that it was getting kind of crazy. I was in a relationship that was very toxic. People call it narcissism now. You know, we have these different names that we have that ⁓ that I say in the mental health field that are cliches now. But overall he was an alcoholic. ⁓ but you know, very manipulative. And it began to start taking me to a place and I did not understand at the time, because I am that person that's a rescuer, I am that person that's there for everyone else. I did not know that. I was slowly going down this road. ⁓ even though I have dealt with some form of anxiety, you know, over time, but it's never been at this place when you start dealing with, you know, the life changes, the relationship, you really not as, you know, even though you're doing therapy, it's not as fulfilling anymore. And I knew that I was not doing a service to my clients, but I continually showed up out of obligation. I continually served in church, even though things were in a transition there. continually serve because I needed to be there. Who who's going who else is gonna pray? Who else is gonna be that ear, you know, that everyone can lean on. So going back to that place, ⁓ I began to start looking at the signs that I did not realize then but they were there. Yeah. You know, not feeling as the passion anymore. ⁓ not, you know, kind of want to be more withdrawn. You know, I'm going up and I'm able to, you know, pray for other people, I'm able to do all these things, but I'm getting in the car and I'm feeling drained and I'm and I'm going home crying. You know, just those things were, you know, and then I'm staying connected to someone that I know of people, and I'm a person that's a counselor, is able to talk to people about things, but you don't even know how to get yourself out of these things, you know. So when I begin to start looking at these things. you know, you know, I've been in mental health, I've been doing this for so long. What else do I know? And so I would say beginning of twenty twenty was when everything hit the bottom. You know, that was when COVID hit. So I had to kind of start dealing with myself. At the time, I guess everyone else thought that they wanted to talk to a therapist now. So things begin to start. You know, people are having marital problems. I mean, you know, I guess because they had to stay at home with their husband and their wives, they realized, you know, we got issues. So, you know, we started having an increase of overflow of therapy, you know, and it was in even though now trying to navigate the system, but it was still at a place. So I was like, okay. So I ended up you know, closing down my actual office space and started going strictly virtual. And, you know, but I realized I was tired. I could not put a name to it, but I was able to do one thing about me is, you know, I'm a person. I can take one sentence and able to pull out something. And people think they had this amazing breakthrough, but they don't realize and I'm in session and I'm thinking about other things. I'm thinking about my problems and all those things. So The thing that really came to the culminating point was, you know, the situation with the relationship began to start shifting and ending. And as it began to start ending, I'm dealing with so many other transitions in life as well. ⁓ church-wise, spiritual-wise, all those things were coming at one time. And then on top of that, I dealt with a situation where in a wonderful drunk driver hit my car while I was parked outside of my house. And it was total. So I was giving to myself in this relationship financially, emotionally, spiritually. I was definitely in a drained place. But I kept trying to push forward because I knew that people needed me. But what I didn't realize was that I needed myself. speaker-0: Let me ask you this, Michelle. When you when you get to that point, what questions did you have to ask yourself? And what did those questions tell you? speaker-1: One of the things that I really had to start questioning myself is first of all, I I question, I was like, really, what what is it that you're doing? Because you're you're showing up and you're you're giving to people and you're showing up and you're being able to show for these sessions, but what is it that you're really doing from day to day for yourself? Because you're not really truly being you. So that was one of the first questions that I asked myself. And then I had to to really start questioning where am I now? Because, you know, you don't realize sometimes whenever, you know, from day to day you're having conversations that you that kind of gives a a thermometer of where you are. For example, how are you today? We are, you know, we accustomed to be like, Hey, how are you? You know, I'm good, I'm good. But are you really good? You know, like real where real truly where are you? And why is it that you keep going when your body is telling you you're tired. And so these are the questions that I had to really start having with myself when I got to that place that it was that low point for me. speaker-0: How many times did it take you asking that same question before you were ready to make change? speaker-1: I'm gonna tell you that was my breaking point. ⁓ because I was having those questions, but I would tell you when you are a leader, you deal with a lot of guilt and you deal with shame because you deal with guilt because you have so many people that you feel as though that you're leading on you. So you you're you're around carrying this, I would call this invisible superwoman, superman cape that we carry around. Because we feel like if I don't do it, then what who else would do it? Or I can do it, so then why not? When actuality your body is saying otherwise. And I remember one day I was talking to my sister on the phone, the relationship had ended, and I was really truly able to let go, but mentally I was processing the grief, all of those things of you should have known better, all these things. And I remember my sister was like, Okay, you have got to forgive. And I remember I got off that session and I hit the floor. And I remember saying, God, I am so angry. And I yelled, crying on the floor. And I was like, Thank God that he was in another state, because I don't know you know how things would have happened. But this is just reality when I see, you know, people don't understand when you continually push and pull and put things in and you don't really deal with it. It's like putting things in a trash can that's going continually to overflow. And that was when the overflow came. And that night was when I really had to do the reality check within myself and say, okay, are you ready to make a change? speaker-0: Ooh, how'd that conversation go? Right, 'cause that's a tough question, 'cause you're right. Like it's it's one thing to recognize. Mm-hmm. To go, wait, I'm this isn't where I'm supposed to be. It's another thing to go, are you ready to change and am I willing to put in that work? How'd that conversation go? speaker-1: A good conversation. Because the thing is, as leaders, we know how to give the best advice. We know how to tell people to take a bath, you know, or take a bath and take a you know, take this time away, take this time for you. You gotta take care of you. But really taking this thing and really saying, okay, I really need to make those changes because this is something you are so used to doing. speaker-0: Well speaker-1: I really had to to really begin to start looking at number one, there was no clarity of where I was going, because I couldn't really answer that question of who I was. There was really no clarity of boundaries because I'm just there, you know, if anybody calls me, I'm picking up the phone, if anything anyone needs, I'm gonna be there. So I really had to really sit with myself and just allow myself to be, if that makes sense. speaker-0: For sure. And what'd you see in that process of just being? speaker-1: ⁓ gosh, when I began to start seeing the Michelle that was allowing herself to just be, it was a lot of things that I thought was together really wasn't together. You know, wherein I was saying, you know, as far as boundaries, you know, I've I've talked to clients all the time, you know, give advice all the time, you know, of taking, you know, self-care, taking care of yourself, you know, setting these boundaries, but I realized that I did not. I was that person that continually went. I was that person that everyone could call and I was that person who, you know, even though you may have done so many other things, yes, forgive, all those things, but I was always that person that felt like I needed to be the rescuer. So I began to start seeing myself, Dry, as a person that was more of not just seeing me for who I am, but for what I was able to produce out. speaker-0: Mm. Yeah, that's so important that you start to see that first before you s expect others to see it. speaker-1: Mm, definitely. Definitely. speaker-0: So and I and I've seen that so many times in workplaces around the country, right? Like the reliable person, because they're reliable, we give them more stuff. And because they're reliable, they get more stuff. So how would you shift this a little bit to where those leaders that are listening to this go, wait a second, I am Michelle. I I'm I'm running all these places. How would you say they could reclaim setting their boundaries and managing their capacity? without being feeling guilty or shameful that they should be doing more. speaker-1: You know, one of the things that I I would definitely say to someone, and this was, you know, my talk within myself of my journey after that having that conversation, is I want you to really start looking at are you being productive or are the things that you have on your list now, are you being productive or are you just doing? speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Because, you know, there are going to be some things that you're going to do, but also what is it that you're being productive in? And if you have a hard time of really looking at your capacity of, okay, this is what I can handle, I want you to start looking out your list. And where do you have yourself on that list? Where have you incorporated your time that you're able to be able to pour out? What is something on this list that is not always an urgency? Because society will have us thinking that everything is urgent. Everything is on the go. Everything it has to be, you know, we have this thing of being booked and busy. But how about being booked with purpose? You know, whatever you think about your calendar for that day, what is something that is that major priority that you can have on your list that you need to get done that day? And what is something that can be done on tomorrow? And then start looking at that of how you can look at your capacity level and then going from there. speaker-0: Yeah, that's so good, right? And capacity. Capacity isn't just relegated to your work. It isn't relegated to your soul, right? You have so much you can give in a day. And if I give, if I have a hundred percent, I give ninety-eight percent to my work, well as soon as I get off work, my family only has two percent left to receive. So who's getting shortchanged? Yeah. Right. And why what do you what are your thoughts on how can companies or leaders better identify when they are when they're being too over reliant on people, meaning I'm constantly giving Michelle more and more stuff. How can I be disciplined enough to know, wait a second, I need to pull that back. Maybe, maybe I need to motivate this person to do a little more. I need to coach a little bit over here. Because I think a lot of times I take if I'm a boss, I take the easy route and I can trust Michelle and she does good work. So I'm just gonna keep going. And she and Michelle can't say no. But sometimes I need to look out for you. So what do you say to the speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: bosses that are constantly handing this stuff out, what should they be looking for to identify an over reliance or or a a person that needs to be pulled back a little bit? speaker-1: You know, I think that it's very important to have manager guide conversations. Whenever you're having supervision with your staff, don't even really sometimes think about because many times when you really have that touch with your staff and they really feel like they can come and talk to you and you have a guide on okay, what is it that you're doing and really knowing? Because sometimes supervisors and managers don't really know the full capacity. of what their staff is handling from day to day. They may have an idea, but if you are really truly able to sit with your staff whenever you do your supervision, because many times we have to have what we call supervision. And if you're able to meet with them and you're doing these team huddles and you really truly mapping out, okay, this is what we're doing here. Okay, so what have you been doing throughout the week and how are you really truly doing as a person? Because many times staff will be able to feel more appreciated when they look like they are a person and not a number. And not only that, if you're able to have these conversations, you're able to identify the gaps before you see the holes coming in. Because they may continually take on and take on and take on and take on. But as a counselor, and I used to do in ⁓ EAP counseling wherein the organizations would send them to us for counseling whenever they get to that place. So by the time they have gotten to me, more than likely they have already did quiet quitting. That means they have already quit and but they have not said anything yet. They have already been in a place they're drained. They're already dealing with this culture. So if you're able to have these conversations, you know, during these supervision times, during these team holders, whereas once a week, you know, we're really mapping out what it is that we're doing and holding those that aren't doing What they need to do accountable is what's key. speaker-0: Yeah. What does quiet quitting look like? That was a good term you just used. What do what does that look like? speaker-1: ⁓ quiet quitting is what I've seen a lot. You know, when I would do, you know, with employees that would come in, they have already quit, but then they have not turned into resignation, but they're showing up, but they're not as engaged. Their productivity may go down, they may become more withdrawn. Those are also the ones they may still be doing the work, but you may hear a little more negativity, or you may see a little more. them being more absent from work because they're taking more mental health days because they're feeling stressed. So those are some signs that you can see within your staff that, okay, this person used to be the one that was really reliable, but now they're not showing up as much. speaker-0: Yeah. I love that picture. And I don't love the behavior, but I love the picture because I love that as a challenge as a leader. Right. speaker-1: They're not as engaged. Yeah. speaker-0: I love that challenge as a leader because it's easy to say, ⁓ well, Jim, he's retired on duty, he's disengaged, he's not paying attention. I'm just not gonna give him any attention. I'm just gonna focus on this next young guy or young lady over here and give her more work. But the tough question, what do you think on this, Michelle? The tough question is to ask ourselves, how do we create that? How do we create a place where Jim now wants to withdraw, doesn't do what he used to do, isn't dependable? Because we own part of that as a the team. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Definitely. And what you know, and when people begin to start having to really have these conversations, because we have a lot of times that are meetings, but are they productive meetings? We have what we call, you know, and many times if something happens, like a organization that I do consulting work for now, they had a staff member to pass away. speaker-0: Right. speaker-1: And one of the things that they said was, you know, well, you can use your resources. You can call human resources. You can use an employee assistance professional. And, you know, we can get you set up for EAP services. But what they fail to recognize is that many times the providers aren't up to date. It's a process for them to be able to get through. And then really truly are you really checking in with your staff to make sure that they are okay processing this grief. So, you know, when you begin to start thinking about the culture, you know, I think about even Chick-fil-A compared to a McDonald's. You're gonna get my pleasure, you're gonna get all these wonderful things. But then you go to McDonald's, not say anything is wrong with it, but then you know, but mm most of the time you go there, the ice machine, the ice cream machine is broken, you know, something is going on, you know. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: I'm not saying, but you know the different cultures. So what we have to start thinking about is creating that culture for them to succeed. Because not only that, when you create that culture, you're able to take those, those that aren't those employees that are able to show up, you're able to take those and weed those out so you can bring in more people that will be able to improve. the health of the organization that will ultimately increase the financial health of the organization. speaker-0: ⁓ I love it. He brought up something that I think is so important. When I get to work with leaders and and teams, one of the things I tell them that sometimes that they look at me concerned is when I tell them not everybody deserves to be on your team. Right? Not everybody. So I hire three people and two people meet the standards. They all go through the same training. They meet the standards. Two people are excelling and one doesn't meet the standards, is late, is behind. If I continue to push them on, I take away from my team, right? 'Cause the other two still have to ki make up the gap. But if I remove him or her and hire three more and I get two more like these other two, now I got four. speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: But we're so reluctant to enforce our standards. We're reluctant to you know, liability I get it's twenty twenty-six, everybody's liable for something. We're also responsible for maintaining our standards of excellence. And what I love about your example is the beautiful thing about Chick-fil-A McDonalds is they're hiring from the exact same Canada pool. Usually late high school, early college age. speaker-1: Yes, yeah. speaker-0: Same local demographic. It's the same people, but one place invest in training and culture and expectations. And the other is more on do you just fill a spot? speaker-1: Mm-hmm, definitely. And then what you have to realize is you only as strong as your weakest link. speaker-0: Which hopefully ain't you. speaker-1: I know right. speaker-0: But sometimes you gotta look, Michelle, sometimes you gotta go wait, maybe it's me. speaker-1: And you know, even as a supervisor, you know, one thing that I learned, you know, even in supervision is that it was, you know, everyone had a different personality. So I could not, even though you may have had those employees that, okay, I know that I can rely on and I really do support, but I have to ensure that I'm providing the support that everyone needs, but everyone has different needs. One person may not really need that one-on-one support, but they just need for you to say, I'm so proud of the work you're doing. Thank you. That other person may need that actual more one-on-one for a little while longer. So I may need to give a little more to them. So it's one of those things of really truly learning your staff and realize that every person is different, but I'm going to be able to have accountability for all. So if you have been hired for this responsibility, and many times another thing is everyone has these things that we call policies and procedures. We have our policies, we have our procedures. But do we really truly follow those procedures? You know, do we really truly follow those policies of ensuring that we stay up to standard and and monitoring? Because as a supervisor, you have a big responsibility. As and I tell you know, the human resources, you are speaker-0: For sure. speaker-1: So many, you know, avenues, resources that you provide to so many people. But in that, what are your policies' procedures to support your staff to make sure they are successful? What is it that you give for accountability? What is it that you have that you may have a staff member that may be dealing with alcohol, that may be dealing with these things? What is it that you provide for them that if they do get this help? that they're not penalized for it, but you provide that support for them in that process if they are one of those good employees. speaker-0: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, people it's hard to perform if I don't know the standards. Right? 'Cause then how do I know what's expected? I mean, how do I know if I'm missing the mark? If I'm short, how do I improve to get there? And that's you know, that's not just work, that's raising our kids, that's our friends, that's ourselves. If we don't know who we are, what are my standards of myself? It's easy to write off not doing the things I know I'm supposed to do today. Right, kinda like your point earlier. Then all of a sudden we get lost and now I'm f two years, three years, four years down the road and I don't even recognize the path I'm on in life because I haven't helped myself to standards and go, wait a second, this ain't what I'm supposed to be doing. I know where I'm supposed to be. This isn't it. speaker-1: Right. speaker-0: I love this question. What do you think about this, Michelle? speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: In any problem, any s issue work, family, raising kids, friendships, I'd like to ask myself this, what is my role in this problem? speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: Right, 'cause if I want employees to be accountable, if I want my kids to be accountable, if I want I want my kids to come home and go, Dad, I messed up today. Like I don't even have to investigate. They just come tell me. speaker-1: Right. But wouldn't that be great that they would do that though? speaker-0: Yeah. Not everything. I don't want to know everything. I know. It's a balance. But when you work with people, when you're led by people, when you're around people to go, hey, there we dropped the ball as a team here, and here's my role in it. Now all of a sudden everybody wants to admit their role because now we can move forward. So how do you how do you help leaders create environment? A couple speaker-1: Right. speaker-0: Things you say that I really like, where clarity fuels connection and the emotional well-being of the people strengthens performance. How do you create that? speaker-1: I would definitely say, you know, just in casual conversations. And it could be something simple. If they say, you know, you know, and the thing is you have to be able to do it because people know whenever you are really truly sincere in what you do. So you really have to think about the culture of your organization. And it could be something so simple as a follow up. Okay, they said that they were going on a trip or they had someone to, you know, had a death in the family. You're just doing a follow up. Well, how are you doing? You know, let me just send an email, you know, or, you know, just creating that time after work for those who want to be able to show up. Hey, you know, we're gonna go meet out here. You know, having those connections outside of okay, we're just gonna have this meeting and we're and we're gonna go about our day. You know, having that moment to be able to have that connection. Allowing people to be able to give suggestions. And that could be something anonymous where they can give suggestions, you know, different things that you can start thinking about how to incorporate it, wherein they do not feel as though, okay, I got to go. You know, because you think about sometimes people be like, ⁓ I got to go. You know, they having this staff meeting, it's mandatory, you know. But how is it that you can get people engaged, you know, where it does not feel like all the time that it has to be. work yes we're going to be able to get work done we can have a working session but maybe it could be a working lunch what is it that you can be creative within your office where in okay today we're going to have an office day and everybody you know I'm a big pajama person not everybody with pajamas like you know but what are some things you can be creative to you know bring in something to make it more engaging to bring for people to be feeling more like they are together Simple things that you can do, simple acts, you know, that you can start thinking about to incorporate it where it does not feel like, okay, we did this big thing on mental health, but how can we think about well-being as opposed to mental health? Because ⁓ the stigma sometimes is attached to it as well. speaker-0: And I love what you said there. If we want to shift cultures, if we want to change po improve performance, very seldom is it some big thing. It's usually little things done repeatedly that create the change we're looking for. speaker-1: Definitely. speaker-0: Like when I see you and I say, Michelle, how you doing today? And usually you're bubbly and full of smiles and you're like, I'm good. Not just walking by, but saying, Wait a second, Michelle, what's going on? Right? Taking that minute, paying attention to the body language and words they use or don't use, that lets you know that let your people know that you see them and that they're valued more than just what they produce by the end of the day. Yeah. I it's and it's funny to me 'cause like so many times people think it's like this big monumental thing that's gonna change and usually it's a simple thing done repeatedly that creates your change. speaker-1: And that's how you have the culture. That's how you have a culture of people that feel like they are part of a mission as opposed to I'm just being an employee and I'm just coming to do my work and I'm just gonna go home. Yeah. That is how you feel people that they will feel more apt to do the work that you have asked for them to do, or whenever you all are going through situations and you're dealing with things where and it might be a tight schedule or deadline, and you need people to have that to work in. You will have more people to volunteer and say, Hey, I'm gonna do that because I know that they care about me. Me as a person. And that was many times, you know, and what we have to think about too is that many times people are coming, they are coming into the office day to day, or even if they work from home, they are carrying so many things within from home, divorce, all these things that they may be dealing with. They're bringing this to work too. Yeah. And so many times people think, okay, well, many times people think of Burnout, they mean they mainly think about occupational. But there were so many factors, even that I even say with my own story of burnout, even though I did end up transitioning and evolving my business, but there are so many factors that that come into play with that as well that people can start considering as well. You know, that they they are coming with so many other things. And like you said, just noticing those little things sometimes of them being a human being, those little things of okay, the things they may like. I know that her favorite color is purple. So I'm gonna have just something a little smaller, a purple, you know, little gift that maybe, you know, not cost much at all, but this is a company gift. You know, those types of things is what matters. speaker-0: I love it. And I wanna I wanna get your thoughts on something that I've never experienced, but that that I think you're an expert in. I would love to hear your opinion. And that is the unique pressures that women face in leadership roles. And how do they balance that? Cause I can only imagine it's even harder to balance like being a worker, a boss, and a mom, right? Because now you got like real different identities and different emotions that come with it. So what do you say to the women leaders in our group on how they face their pressures? speaker-1: I would just say to them to allow them to have that moment to take off the cape, to have that moment to not identify as the mom, to not identify, you know, as this executive, to not identify as that title, but who are you outside of that? And what happens a lot of times with women that even I have seen, you know, especially, you know. Those who married children trying to do career, they get so lost in the roles that they don't know anything else outside of. When you think about people, you know, women that deal with emptiness syndrome, you know, because you know, they don't know how to operate without that. If they deal with job loss, they don't know how because they have been so accustomed to, you know, going, serving, doing all these things and leadership, but where do you have your place to be outside of that? You know. We have so much that we carry as managers. And we are the executive or managers of the household, laundry, you know, household duties, so many things, you know. No, you know, we're not gonna say that the men don't have responsibilities, you know, but as women, you know, they they are typically the managers of the house. They're able to, you know, keep the schedule with the children, you know, reminding the husbands of, you know, their appointments and all these things or whatever. But what do you do for you? That asks out of s outside of all those titles, how do you show up to be able to be this woman outside of all of speaker-0: Hm. What what do you say? 'Cause I I just, you know, talking to to women that are in different positions is there's almost a guilt if they give themselves time and take away from the family or the job 'cause they are juggling. So how do they how do they handle that? 'Cause I think that guilt's a little more unique to them than than for sure for the male side, at least in my experience. speaker-1: Yes, I would say, you know, the women deal with that a lot because we are naturally nurturers. And, you know, one of the things that I would often say to women is, you know, when you are at that place, do you want to be able to give of your best self? Or do you want to just give a piece? So whenever you want to be able to have this moment, and sometimes I would just tell women that'll have this busy schedule. You can have the children to go to bed a little early. Get up a little early, have a little cup of coffee. Drive to work a different way. While you're in the shower, play one of your favorite songs from, you know, that you know you used to love, you know, and just dance. Many times when people think about self-care, you know, for people think about going to the spa, you know, but when you start incorporating these little things, these little, I'd say, pockets of sunshine. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: you know, those things for you, then you're able to have this moment to excel, you're able to have this moment to release so you can go back and be able to to give to your family, to give to your community and give to, you know, the company that you serve. speaker-0: That's so good, those little pockets of sunshine. I think it's important that we remember those, right? And that we we have those on standby to pull into when we need ⁓ Mm-hmm. speaker-1: You know, and it's always good to to have, you know, women, you know, just to be able to release a true a type of sisterhood. Yeah. You know, wherein you can you can laugh, you can have that good time, you know, having those moments. is something that is vital, is is something that you need to be able to have. So, you know, whenever you're having that moment, you have, you know, this person with you along the journey that can hold you accountable, that you can talk to, that you can confide in, you know, you maybe go get lunch with, you know, you know, it's it's good to be able to have those connections as well. speaker-0: Yeah, and it's it's interesting, right? In a world where we have information ready all the time and we're connected through social media, a lot of us just don't have that personal connection with the person next to us anymore. speaker-1: Yes. And you know, and that's that's one of the things that is a blessing, but it's also one of those things that's still needed. Because even though in this world of AI, in the world of technology advancing, it's nothing like having that human connection. Nothing can match it. Nothing can match it. speaker-0: Yeah. No, and I love it, right? Like it allows me and you to have conversation from across the country and I can learn from you, right? And I I think that's the key, right? Is being intentional and expanding your circle, not narrowing to where what you know is already what you know, and the only people around you also believe the same thing you did, because that's gonna be kind of boring. speaker-1: Right. Right. Definitely. speaker-0: You need some difference in your life. Well, Michelle, I was looking through and you've written a few books now that I think are super cool. The Clarity Code Blueprint, Healing from the Ins Invisible Wounds, The Stress Factor, and Lady Boss. What book would you say reflects the deepest part of your journey and that's the one where you're like, okay, that's the one right there? speaker-1: Yes. say the clarity code blueprint. ⁓ the clarity code blueprint ⁓ when I wrote healing from invisible wounds that came from you know the professional you know you know I the therapist you know but the clarity code blueprint is a ⁓ gosh it it encompasses my journey speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: But it also takes you through a journey that you can begin to get clarity in your life. And it also encompasses over 20 plus years of my work that I've done with clients. And it helped me to be able to get to a process of clarity. So it takes you through a seven-step framework to get to a place of clarity. So not only that you can get, you know, clear about where you're going, but to be able to sustain it as well. So that's that's that would be the one that I would say is, you know, my heart right now, the clarity. speaker-0: Yeah. What was what was the process like reliving that stuff and putting it on paper and almost seeing it like a a third person, right? 'Cause now it looks like it might it's happening to this character and realizing you are the character. speaker-1: Well, it was it was an interesting process because I had to revisit a lot of places. ⁓ I had to and that's when I really started looking at, you know, connecting with myself, you know, liberating, you know, from all the distractions, you know, acknowledging where I am, doing this refocus and all those things. That was that was definitely a journey of a kind of a rediscovery as well, you know, as I begin to start looking at, okay, this is not only what helped me, but this is over 20 plus years of work that I've done and taking, you know, individuals through a process that they can be this leader that can still show up, but they're gonna be able to show up more focused. They're gonna be able to show up clearer. And they're gonna be able to show up as their best selves, you know, to everyone that they serve day to day. So It was definitely a good journey to be able to go through, you know, through the process. speaker-0: ⁓ I love it. Michelle, where can our audience connect with you further, find your books and just be part of your team? speaker-1: Yes, well you can look up my website at the claritycode effect.org. Also, you can find me on LinkedIn at Dr. Michelle Harris and also on Facebook at Dr. Michelle Harris. speaker-0: Before I let you go, Michelle, I have one question for you to wrap up. At this stage of your life, what does a life well lived mean to you? speaker-1: A life well lived is to be able to wake up And to be able to exhale and to say, okay, sometimes, you know, being able to say, okay, what am I going to be able to do today to be able to make an impact? And it does not have to be a major impact. It may not be on a major stage. So, you know, those are the things for me when I'm able to wake up a life well lived, even if it's a thing of me seeing someone out, and sometimes I give a compliment, I'm able to see that smile, you know, those types of things, you know, those are the things that keeps me. Going from day to day. speaker-0: ⁓ Michelle, it's been such a pleasure to sit and talk with you and to learn from you. And I wanna thank you so much for the service you're providing to the world by facing your story and then sharing it so that we can all learn with you and our paths cross. I'm so grateful to have met you and I I wanna thank you again. speaker-1: All right, thank you so much. speaker-0: Hey friends, Jared Hardy here. If you've been inspired by what we talk about on the On Purpose Podcast, it's time to take it to the next step. My Excellence on Leadership course is built for individuals, teams, and organizations ready to lead with clarity, accountability, and purpose. Whether you're running a business, leading a squad, or just leveling up personally, let's work together. You can book me for custom classes or speaking engagements and we'll build something that lasts. Visit teamhardy.net to learn more and take action today. And remember, team, life is far too short to live any other way than on purpose. We'll see you all again next week.