Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / The Captain Of Security Operations At MCC And His OIG Deposition (Part 3) (5/31/26)

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The Captain Of Security Operations At MCC And His OIG Deposition (Part 3) (5/31/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

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  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
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  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right
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  back to the Captain of Security Operations at MCC and
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  his interview with the OIG inspectors. Question, all right, was
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  there any discussion of placing Epstein in one of those units? Answer? No,
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  Question could he have been placed in one of those units?
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  Answer I'm sure he could have. Question but I mean
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  by executive staff or would they had to have made
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  the call to the he gets cut off by the guard.
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  I believe they would have had to make special concessions
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  for the inmate. Question okay. Answer They would have to
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  you know, vetom and someone would have to approve it,
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  I believe, outside of the executive staff at MCC. Question okay,
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  and then that's where I meant by so the executive
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  staff wasn't able to independently answer no, we were not.
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  Question okay? Were there many inmates housed within Tense South
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  at the time? Answered no. I believe at the time
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  we may have had a total of four to five.
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  Of course, you know, we had the notorious Joaquin Gusman
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  up there. We also had the apple Puff phonetic was
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  up there. We also had inmate it starts with an S.
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  I can't remember his name, but basically these are inmates
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  that have made crimes against the United States, which it
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  was deemed that those inmates would be in that special
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  management unit and they couldn't of course go to the
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  general population. Question was this like a terrorist type of people? Answer?
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  I would say some of them were terrorists. You know,
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  of course you had Joaquin Gusman, the terrorists, the jug
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  king Pin, et cetera. He could go on, he couldn't
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  go on the general population. He would normally, guys like
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  that would be in places where I come from before,
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  you know, like Florence. He'd be at the ADX phonetic Apov.
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  I believe that a Popov I think that was his name,
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  a popov of or Soapopov. These guys had made terrorist
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  threats against the United States, or there was guys up
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  there that had material or that was found in cooperation
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  with outside agencies that was trying to detriment of indiscernible
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  and cause harm to the United States. These kinds of guys,
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  they were put in that unit. Guys you wouldn't want
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  in general population because of their recruitment value. Or their
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  radical ability they could be able to do have recruitment
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  value for you know, for other inmates in the general population.
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  You don't want those guys in there. But Jeffrey Epstein,
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  you know, he's a multi billionaire. Question sure, now, as
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  far as ten south, is that one inmate per cel?
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  Answer yes, question and video monitored at all times. Answer yes,
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  question okay, So it's like you're a maximum security type
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  answer that would be the highest security that an inmate
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  at MCC would be placed in question okay, answer yeah,
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  could be placed in question, but the executive team never
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  discussed that. Answer no question, okay, redacted. Advice is that
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  Epstein preferred not to have a cellmate and engaged in
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  manipulative behavior to avoid having one. What type of behavior
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  he gets cut off by the guard I believe that Epstein,
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  and when he first came in, he was doing self
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  manipulative behavior. You know, he was showing passive resistant activity
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  as far as you know, when they're taking meals, or
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  wouldn't listen to staff as far as when they're giving
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  them direction. You know, he would sit in his cell
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  and he wouldn't talk. You know, I believe he wasn't
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  taking meals. At one point he was refusing to take
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  showers things of those nature. Question and the sentence continues,
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  including requesting to see a psychologist. Answer yeah, question is
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  that part of it? Answer? Yes? Question okay? Did he
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  say why he wanted to see a psychologist? Answer? I
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  don't know. Question No answer, I don't remember that. No question. Sure,
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  at Epstein's request, he was interviewed by a psychologist. Do
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  you know who he made that request to have been?
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  Sho staff? Answer? He probably made that request to any
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  of the staff that may have been monitoring him at
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  the time, because if he was placed on psychological observation
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  at the time, psychological observation, you would have had to
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  have staff person that sat there and monitored the inmate.
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  Another inmate couldn't have done it. Question okay, and that
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  is that like twenty four to seven answer? That would
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  have been twenty four hours, seven days a week. Question,
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  So a staff member would just sit there and watch
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  him answer correct question, communicate with him or no answer? Yeah,
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  of course? Question okay? Answer. I mean, and that's you know, encouraged.
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  I mean, you know, even though the inmate's placed in
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  that situation. Again, we're talking about humanity. Here. You know,
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  you want to gauge this guy's mental acuity, meaning that
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  the inmate. You want to know how he's feeling, how
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  he's doing, Is he improving or is he declining, Because
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  if he's declining and you can actually see it, you
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  want to contact somebody. You know, if this guy is
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  in there being very very no belligerent, he's being passive
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  aggressive or active resistant, or displaying signs of violence, you
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  want to make sure that you notify someone. You're not
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  just going to sit there and allow the guy to
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  do self harm to himself or a staff member when
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  they come to the door to provide his services, you know,
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  such as taking him to shower, providing his meals, providing
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  his medication, or whatever it is. So you just don't
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  want to sit there and allow the inmate just you know,
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  if he's going to be detrimentally, could be a harm
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  to staff or himself, you want to ensure that you
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  notify someone. Question. Okay, So, following this assessment, Epstein was
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  initially placed on suicide watch. He was later interviewed again
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  and downgraded to psychological observation. Now, just for the suicide
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  watch and psychological observation, where are they located. Answer those
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  who would be conducted downstairs on the second floor in
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  the health services area. Question and that's outside of the shoe.
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  Correct answer, That is correct question. And that was prior
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  to any attempt on his life or anything like that. Answer,
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  that is correct question. Okay. After some time he was
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  returned to the shoe. Redacted began hearing talk to Epstein
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  was trying to get back on suicide watch. Information like
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  this is usually generated from rounds, kites and kitter notes
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  correct answer, correct question, and notes from inmates specifically correct answer.
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  It could be yes, that could be an inmate correspondence
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  question yeah, and monitoring phone calls and letters. So the
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  hearing of talk that's all based upon inmate talk. Answer
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  that would have been all that staff question okay, staff
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  as well answer. You know staffing's sitting there, and you know,
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  especially when he's on suicide watch, you know staff are
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  taking notes. So it's every fifteen minutes, you know, staff is, oh,
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  I'm sorry, every thirty minutes, I believe, I can't remember,
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  it's been a while, but you know, a staff member
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  it's every thirty minutes, I believe, is taking a log
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  of what the inmates doing. Inside of his cell. You know,
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  so what he's doing, you know, the inmates facing to
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  the right, the inmates facing away from the staff. The
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  inmate is, you know, doing what or makes these statements?
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  Those statements will be written on the log. Question Okay,
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  it says on or about July twenty third, twenty nineteen,
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  Epstein was found on responsive on the floor of his
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  cell with a homemade piece of fabric on his chest.
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  When you say a homemade piece of fabric, can you
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  explain that a little bit? Answer? Okay, basically a homemade
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  piece of fabric. It could be anything because it's out
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  of the special housing. That's what we're talking about, right,
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  Answer yeah, I mean I'm talking about specifically in this instance.
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  Do you know what it's meant by found on the
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  floor with a homemade piece of fabric on his chest?
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  Answer it could have been fragments from a T shirt.
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  It could have been fragments from sheets. It could have
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  been fragments from cloth. He gets cut off by the
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  investigator that they could tie together. Answer it was tied together,
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  you know, to make some type of home made fashioned.
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  He gets cut off by the investigator. Did you see
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  it out all though yourself answer, I can't remember. Question okay, sure,
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  Epstein's cellmate had flagged the attention of a staff member,
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  who handcuffed the cell mate and removed Epstein to bring
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  him to medical unit. Do you recall at that time
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  who his cell mate was? Answer Tartaglione, question okay, great,
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  and did you all right? We talk about him in
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  a little bit. Redacted her from his staff that Epstein
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  may have been faking on consciousness. Do you know who
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  told you that? Answer? Well, basically in memorandum. I remember
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  when it was reported to me, and I made my report.
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  I believe it was the report of incident by Lieutenant
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  redacted redacted, and I believe that she put out an
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  email which concluded behavior to manipulate the situation through his
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  statements and what was observed by medical staff. So basically,
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  they were saying that the incident didn't occur as the
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  inmate may have tried to make it look or occur,
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  because he was not observed opening his eyes and making
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  other suspicious movements not consistent with an unconscious state, or sorry,
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  because he was observed opening his eyes and making other
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  suspicious movements not consistent with an unconscious state. Epstein was
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  medically assessed and became coherent. Epstein claimed that a cellmate,
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  Nicholas Tartaglioni, tried to take his life. Was that investigated? Answer?
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  I believe. No, I mean, I can't remember, but I
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  believe a report of incident may have been done. Question okay? Answer?
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  And primarily when a report of incident is generated, So
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  any time that an incident happens in the institution, I'm
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  going to walk you through this. The lieutenant that's on
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  shift is supposed to do the initial fact finding, the
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  gathering of evidence, and all of these things, and then
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  they write a brief synopsis and it's put up packet,
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  and then ultimately SIS department will investigate it, especially if
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  we're having an assault, which would have been a two
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  to twenty four alpha, which is a minor assault of another.
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  So pictures would have been taken, clinical assessments of both
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  inmates would have been taken, witness statements would have been taken.
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  All of these things would have been done, and it
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  goes into an investigative packet. Question sure, so redacted, Lieutenant
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  redacted would have created it and provided it to SIS.
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  And do you know if there was any credibility found?
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  To the claim that Epstein made that this other his
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  cellmate had tried to take his life. Answer. I don't
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  believe there was any credibility that was ever concluded that
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  that incident happened. Question and do you know anything about
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  when he was initially found, if the homemade rope or
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  whatever it was, was found around his neck or it
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  says in this on his chest, anything with that with
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  you know? Do you know what I mean like, if
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  someone has trying to hang themselves, if it came on
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  their chest, do you know anything about how that may
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  have happened. Answer? I mean, forensically, I would No, I'm
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  not an investigator on that level, so I can't really
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  tell you the position of any type of homemade fashioned
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  item that would be used to facilitate a suicide attempt
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  or an assault attempt. That's not my level. Again, I'm
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  trying to remember what it was or what was used,
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  But again I don't know exactly, so I can't really
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  determine or give you that type of you know, I
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  don't have that expertise in that area. So he gets
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  cut off by the investigator. But the information that was
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  provided to you suggested that he tried to take his
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  own life, not that the cellmate tried to take his life. Answer, correct,
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  that's the inconclusive that the inmate had Inmate Tartaglioni had
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  tried to kill this guy or tried to do any
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  self harm to this guy. So you have to so
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  like you have to take advantage because it's one inmate's
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  word against another. So when the investigation comes down, of course,
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  inmate Epstein would have been interviewed in May, Tartaglioni would
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  have been interviewed, at which time you would have took
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  those statements. You would have wait, and then you would
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  have taken into consideration any witness statements or anything that
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  was observed during the clinical assessment. So that's why health
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  services helps us out, because the inmates don't want to
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  understand that everything they're doing or anything they're saying is
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  being entered into that clinical assessment. So that's where they
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  were saying that he wasn't His actions may not have
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  been what they should have been for a person that
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  was quasi supposed that had been assaulted, or if he
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  was supposed to have been unconscious, he was displaying this
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  type of behavior. So again I wasn't there, so I
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  don't know what occurred. I'm just going by what was
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  the information that was relayed back to me. Question absolutely so,
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  as far as Tartaglioni, what was he in for? Answer?
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  I believe that Tartaglioni was responsible for He was a
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  former police officer, I believe, and I believe he had
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  kill four people and then he buried them, buried the
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  victims somewhere up near Otisville Prison. I think that's what
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  it was back in the day. Question okay, Answer, yeah,
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  something like that. Question So he was actually in for
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  murder though, answer yeah, it was murder. He was in
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  for murder and whatever other stuff he was doing. Question okay,
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  answer doing in his capacity as a police officer. Question
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  and who selected him to be Epstein's roommate. Answer? I
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  don't remember who vetted Tartaglioni. But I will tell you
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  is that even though Tartaglioni had murder on his jacket,
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  Tartaglioni also was an inmate that had issues being in
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  general population. You understand what I'm saying. Question former police officer, answer,
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  former police officer. He had issues Because I've dealt with
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  Tartaglioni at Brooklyn. So he was up on one of
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  the units in Brooklyn, and he had issues with those
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  inmates in those blocks where they're made for people who
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  are sex offenders, for inmates that have issues with when
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  they go to population general they can't cope formal law enforcement.
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  These types of guys are in that unit. So you
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  don't really have that much issue in those types of
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  units because these guys are going to do their time
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  or await their sentence and then move on, so you
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  don't really have a lot of violence. But this guy
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  was always always in the mix of something, but we
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  couldn't put him in the general population unit, and you
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  just can't throw him in the shoe, you know what
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  I'm saying, just because you just can't. So in Brooklyn
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  we had the ability to put him and I think
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  it was K eighty two, I can't remember. When he
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  goes to MCC, you know, they don't have those type
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  of units, you know, so he would have to go
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  into general population or he would go into the shoe.
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  So if the inmate fails the program and said I'm
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  not going to population, you can't force me. So when
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  you do his assessment, the unit does the assessment Psychology
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  does their assessment. Health Services does that assessment, and they'll say, hey,
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  this guy is clear to go to GP, there's nothing
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  precluded him to go. But the inmate said, well, you know,
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  i'm a three oh six. Threeho six is a refusal
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  for programs. I'm not going, so put me in the shoe.
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  So that's how he ended up in the shoe. Question. Sure,
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  so he was in the shoe already. Answer yeah. Question
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  and do you believe he was a good placeman for Epstein?
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  Answer well, at the time, Again, you would have to
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  be mindful. We don't how could I put this. Inmates
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  are not placed in cells based on a race or
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  but however, or gang affiliations, all of these things that
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  you know. But however, you've had inmates, so you say, okay,
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  well you have guys up there that at MCC that
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  were facing murder charges. There's a lot of them. Hey,
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  I mean if they're in the shoe, that means they
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  can't cope on the outside, they can't cope in general
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  population unit. So we look at him just like another inmate.
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  He never hurt another inmate question and that was going
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  to be my next question. So he was not known
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  to assault anyone. Answer, bro, he never assaulted another inmate.
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  Question Okay, answer, Yeah, he got a murder beef. Okay,
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  that's fine. But guess what, he's never hurt any inmates
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  while incarcerated. Just to jump in, Yeah, because you had
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  him in the shoe, that's why. How do you think
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  he'd handle himself in GP? Question? So, taking though that
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  he was incarcerated due to murder and that Epstein claimed
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  that he tried to murder him, do you think do
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  you believe that there was any credibility to that claim? Answer? Again,
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  what I will say is that I will tell you,
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  like you said my statements before that it was brought
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  to my attention that inmate Epstein was doing behavior that
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  was manipulating, kind of testing the water to see what
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  he'd get away with. Being his initial incarceration, probably not
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  too familiar with being in jail, But however, he's a
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  smart guy. He kind of figured out what he could
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  do in order for him one not to go to GP. Two,
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  try to get to the shoe and try to get
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  a cell by himself. That's kind of where he wanted
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  to go. Question. So, then he wanted to go to
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  the shoe by himself, and that may have been why
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  he said, okay, okay, So you believe that he made
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  the claim against Tartaglione because he wanted to be in
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  a cell by himself. Answer, that's in my belief. After
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  looking at everything and everything that was done, I believe
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  so I think that would be accurate. All right, folks,
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  we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next
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  episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
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  we left off. All the information that goes with this
• 17:16
  episode can be found in the description box.