Latest / Exit Algorithms / How to Grow a Multi-Office Firm Without Losing the Personal Touch | Tad Nelson (#93)
Transcript
- Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Welcome to Exit Algorithms, the podcast where we decode what it really takes to unlock growth, streamline operations, and prepare your business for a high-value exit. I'm your host, Pete Vera, and today I'm joined by Tad Nelson. Tad founded the law offices of Tad Nelson and Associates in 1994. With over 35 years of experience and over 400 jury trials, he's a Board certified criminal in criminal law, holds a master's in forensics toxicology, and is one of the few Texas attorneys recognized as a forensic lawyer scientist. Dad, excited to have you here today. Welcome to the podcast. TAD: Thank you, Pete. I'm excited to be here. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, I loved doing some research on on your business you've built. It's very impressive. Do you mind sharing with the audience today a a little bit about your journey and maybe some of TAD: Yeah. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: the highs and lows and how you grew it to what it is today? TAD: Well Originally when I got out of law school, I I I I had come from an accounting background at UT and I kind of didn't you know I kind of thought I wanted to stick around there and you know what seemed interesting to me was like you know estate planning and so I ultimately started with a probate firm, a big probate firm in downtown Houston and literally in two or three months realized it wasn't for me. You know, I needed the action, I couldn't just sit there at a desk, you know, figuring out where to people stuff, you know, what you know what documents they needed. Just wasn't for me. And I was in the process of getting a master's in tax law at at you at University of Houston at the time. Did a couple more semesters of that just 'cause I didn't want to quit and then ultimately I finally did quit. But I call well, I just one day I just out of the you know, I went home, was talking to my wife, wasn't happy about the situation at the probate firm and I called a friend of mine who was the elected DA in Galveston County, said, Hey, you always said I could have a job. I said, I'm really not happy where I am, you know. And he said, When can you start? So I literally the very next day walked in, resigned from my job in Houston, and started as a DA in two weeks and did that for three years and then started my own shop and had been doing that since June first of ninety four. You know, and kind of the courtroom was kind of my thing. I mean, I'm I'm kind of a talk to people, have to be out there negotiating, you know, with kind of personality. And it's just the place for me. So I've I've I've been there since ninety four. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, I I read, you know, you built your firm around big city experience, small town values. what what do you what do you mean by that? Could you elaborate on on that? And and you know, how do you keep that that personal feel while you grow your business? TAD: Well, you know, there's there's two things I always fall back on. And it's funny 'cause I I always even in ninety four realized that, you know, I was taking people at their lowest. You know, you you have people that are either caught charged with crimes or going through a divorce. They may not get to see their child as much as they'd like. And you know, my job I always kind of realized it was to, you know, take them from this very dark place in their life and bring them to the light, kind of thing. And you know, and then you started realizing, there's actually a book called Unreasonable Hospitality. Now granted, it's only been out ten years. But we started it 30 years ago. And the whole point is, you know, when somebody comes to me with a with a criminal problem, they start here and they ultimately want a goal of getting through it, getting out of it. But that's that's just half the story. The journey is the other half. So we kind of realize that we put as much emphasis on the journey as we did the result. Because if a person's at home losing their mind out on the ledge, You know, they need somebody they need reassurance. They need somebody that's gonna be there for They need to know you have their back. And yeah, I it might seem trivial, but it's not, and I promise you it's not. And I honestly think that's what makes my firm a little different, because you know, we have a client success manager who literally does nothing more than send emails after a court date making sure they understood what the court date was about and what happened and where we're going next. You know, because you know the reason the boogeyman to children was was so, you know, so frightful is because they didn't know who the boogeyman was. You know, and and if you can literally help people understand what they're going through, it it's so much easier for them. And I I think that's been our biggest thing is you know, you you don't think the legal business or the criminal offense and family law as a service. You know, you think of it as you're providing a legal service, but you don't realize that it is a service industry. It's no different than a restaurant where you sit somebody down, you make them feel comfortable, you you know, you you literally, you know, mesmerize them with with all the things you can do for Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. that that's awesome. Yeah. And just building you know, keeping customer service as front and center to your business. TAD: Yeah. And absolutely that's the easiest way to get more customers too. I mean the better the experience, the more they're gonna s you know, tell other people. You know, I every you know, it's after thirty six years, I would say ninety percent of the people that come to us say, yeah, I you know, I know you you helped out Bob or you helped out Bob's little brother, you know, and man, they said, you know, gotta come talk to you. So ultimately, you know, you you you've worked hard we've worked hard for over thirty years. And like I said, we have always stressed, you know, the journey as much as the the destination. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, what does you know over four hundred trials teach you about people pressure decision making? TAD: Well, I'll tell you the one thing. You you would think, you know, you you think as a criminal defense lawyer, you know, it's gonna be tough, which which it should be tough. And the government, you know, they're on the white horse, they're wearing the white hat, you know, and they get to pick the cases. But I will tell you this as bad as turning on CNN or MSNBC or Fox, whichever one you watch, as much as that can let you down about humanity. humanity is still there and juries want to do the right thing. And if you have the right case, they will listen and they will follow the law. And like you know, I I don't know what percentage of you know, not guilties I have, but it's way more than I should have. And it's because, you know, it's again, you're talking to a jury, you're explaining a situation, you're humanizing your client, you're humanizing the situation. And and they realize that, you know, not every time a person's charge with a crime, they did it. As a matter of fact, the majority of the time I would say, you know, you know, when we go to trial, I obviously at that point, I mean I've been doing it long enough to know that hey, if I've got a bad case, I don't have an ego, so I d there's no reason to go to trial, can't get anything there. But on the once we do go to trial, you know, we we expect to have a pretty good chance. And you know, juries will follow the law. And juries will juries don't have a bit of hesit. I used to think they did when I was younger. I used to think a jury was afraid to let a somebody charged with murder go or let somebody go that, you know, touched a child or in theory was charged with touching a child. They're not. And and I'll t I'll tell you the thing, you know, the hardest cases I try are are the ch child cases. I do a lot of, you know, sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault of children. And something came to me you know, twenty years or so, you know, we get to talk to the jury in Texas. You know, we have Vordire. We get to, you know, talk, you know, ask the jury questions, you know, on a big case like that we might get two hours each side. And I always start with, you know, you know, who who who here, you know, realizes how bad You know, an aggravated sexual assault of a child is. You know, and they're all like, yeah, you know, kill him, you know, whatever, he's horrible. And I said, you know, I want you just to, you know, think in your mind just for a second, as bad as it is to take the innocence of a child like that, and as horrible crime that would be, imagine if you didn't do it and you were here charged with it. How bad would that be? 'Cause your life is over. You will never get past that stigma. You have you're now losing jobs and what have you. And you'll see the head start to nod, you know. And then they immediately it's like, you know, the guy from the old motel six, and here's the other side of the story. You know, it's a once that light goes off, you know, they really start to understand, you know. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. it makes sense. yeah, I'd love to talk a bit about also the the business TAD: Yeah. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: side. we talked a bit on the pre show. You know, you have multiple offices, multiple locations. What does it take to run a a multi office law firm? Well. TAD: Same con sa everything takes good people. And I think that's the hardest part of running a law office is finding good people. Because, you know, Not only do they have to be smart, they have to be personable, and and they have to, you know, be ready and willing to work. And that's been the hardest thing, but we I I'm fortunate, very fortunate, knock on wood. We have really good people at the two offices. we're even expand we're trying to expand into a third one a little bit more into the the north side of the lake as I get closer to Houston. I'm in a little place called League City. So I'm at the top of Galveston County and you know, we practice in Harris County. We're trying to do a little more family law up in Harris County, so we're about to get a third office up there and bring in about you know two or three more lawyers and three or four more support staff. So I mean the the hardest thing is you know getting the staff and but it's a lot easier when you really when they come to a culture, you know, when they're not running around you know like a chicken with their head cut off. When they come in and the culture is told day one, when they see the culture around them it's a lot easier for them to get on board. You know what I mean? If if the train is going one direction, it's a lot easier to grab it. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. How did you go about developing that that culture? TAD: Well, I you know, I don't want to pat myself on the back, but w you you kinda lead by example, you know. you know, I hand you know, the day you w start working for us I hand a couple of books out that are important, beth basically, you know, on on on s service and what have you and you know they're they're I I said hey you gotta have these read in ninety days. You're gonna get a hundred bucks for each one extra, but you gotta have read in ninety days, they're a gift to you, but you know, and I think when they read they start understanding and and even they don't understand every concept, they understand that's what I'm trying to accomplish. And then th during that ninety days they're seeing other people implement it. And it's, you know, that going that little bit extra for the for the customer, for the client. that kinda makes it a s you know, it makes it makes the the the the the culture at the office all about satisfying the client. Now, don't get me wrong, we have clients that are just off their off their rocker, you know, that that that that want unreasonable stuff. And that's a that's a second, you know, problem. You gotta handle them just as kindly, but just because they want something doesn't mean they get it. Because some stuff they want is not reasonable. You know, I we get divorced clients that come in here and they basically say, you know, I don't want him to ever see the kids. Well that's not gonna happen, you know? So we've gotta kind of, you know, bridge that gap as well. But that could be a little tougher actually. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, I imagine. yeah, w what do you think is the biggest mistake most attorneys make when they're trying to grow beyond a solo practice? TAD: You know, that's a great question. you know, I I I don't really think there can ever be a mistake when you're bringing on more people. What scares me for some people is you know, every time we've grown, we've we've gotten to that the you know, where you grow and you're about to bust. You know, it's just so much work. And that's not necessarily a good thing, but it is a decent financial thing in the sense of you don't bring on the extra expenses until you know the you know the the work is there. I I think some people might go a little bit fast getting that and that you know maybe puts them in but it also helps them do a better product. you know I think with what I see with lawyers is more more times than not it's just no desire to grow. I think that's a the crazier thing. I think I've seen so many lawyers They get to what they think is a comfortable living and don't grow at anything. I you can walk in a and that's the one thing you've never seen at my office, you can walk in a these offices and it's the exact same as it was ten years ago, maybe even the same computers, you know? That's the one thing about my office. We've always been changing. Furniture, you know, you know, computers. I mean, we're always gonna have the best of everything. The technology changes on the phones, you know, we're gonna get rid of those and get better ones. You know, we're we're going into a phone system now where every phone call will be s you know, transcribed, will be put into their file, and then we will receive, you know, with AI you can do so much. So as information comes in on every client, it's just gonna go into their Teams folder. Then AI is gonna look. At that, and tell me if that puts me in a different situation, if there's new items that I need to look into or new items that are going to be problematic. So if every bit of information that comes into your office on a client is evaluated relative to all the other information on that client, you're always at ground zero. And there's no reason not to be right now. You know what I'm saying? Ten years ago, five years, three years, two years ago, I would have to go back through a file every time I grabbed a file and kind of get a feel for it and see where it was. We're now, well not right now, but we once our systems are in place that we're working on, we'll be able to just read the last folder that says, okay, here's where we are, here's what needs to be done, here's why we might lose, here are the three things that we can prove we're gonna win. It's that simple. And that can all be done for you. That's where the lawyering is gonna get better. And the service now, if the actual lawyering, if you can get that down to what used to be three hours into 15 seconds, now you've got all that extra time just to make the client feel good, you know? So it it's working out. I mean Don't get me wrong, I see a lot of the problems with AI, but there's if right now we're in that we're in that sweet spot before it gets, you know, t too crazy. And if you're not using it, you're getting left behind. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Right. Yeah. So staying ahead of the the technology is a is a big piece to growing. TAD: I think it is. I think it's the biggest piece right now. I mean, because the one thing it can do, you can grow You can grow without bringing in more people, you know, if you understand it. And then you can bring the people in when you really need it. You know, once you expand either by location, you know, or or if you bring in more lawyers. Obviously every lawyer is gonna need a, you know, a paralegal or a secretary babysitter. So you're gonna have to bring in people there, but to get to that spot, you're accomplishing more work. Yeah. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. How how else are you leveraging AI these days personally or with your business? And you know, how do you see it affecting your industry the most? TAD: Well, I think the one thing, you know, the West Law and the Lexus, the different the different legal programs we have that do our legal research, you know, still not perfect because there's little AI gaps in it and they'll tell you to you know, they they'll have like like Westlaw for example, it has an AI deep deep dive where it'll really go of look at your stuff, but it'll tell you you better run this through, you know, the other side of of Westlaw to make sure the sites are right, 'cause they're still gonna hallucinate again. And You know, so obviously you gotta be very careful using chat or Claude for you know you know, for legal research. But the ideas that show up really come up good. You know, they have some great ideas. you know, I I use it for I probably use chat and Claude, you know. four or five times in the morning before I even drive off out from my house. I mean, I I ta I shoot at it and say, hey, I'm thinking about doing a whole series of videos social on this. What do you think? And then they'll give you other ideas. Say, hey, I'm gonna write some blogs. You know, you know, Claude can go out and tell you which blogs are getting hit and which ones are important. You know, go write ones about this, Mr. Nelson, you know, or or, you know, well it's so funny how, you know, Claude and Chat work. Hey, that's a great idea, Ted. You know, the way it always starts off by telling you I'd break And then it's you know then it directs you to go do it. So but yeah, there's so many ways. So it helps me with my advertising and then you know, you know, I at sixty one I do travel a little bit, so I might be out of the country eight weeks a year, and if I didn't film enough before I left, you know, or something big comes out, you know, I have an editor in the Philippines, full time and You know, he can go and just use AI and create it, you know. So as long as we sign off, we me and him sign off on the on the On the script, you know, hit we can do use AI that way. So we're using it across the board. You know, I've also used it to write all my protocols and procedures. We changed those all up. Now, everything from you know how which way to put the toilet paper on to how to get the mail. There's a procedure and a protocol. So if somebody goes away, the next person can just go read it. You Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Hm. TAD: know. Everything is standardized. You know, everything you know everybody and that's another big thing with growing a business. If you're growing a business, everybody better know their duties. You know? And it's what's the best way to make sure they know it? Put it in writing. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. So a a thought thought partner is a a a good y use case. you know, bounce ideas off with AI. TAD: Mm-hmm. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: as well, you know, it sounds like it's a basically a force multiplier for for you and your business. TAD: without a doubt. Yeah. And you know, it can help me like especially when somebody calls in and says, Hey, you know This is what I'm thinking I need to do. And I can put a perspective together to kind of show them what the what the, you know, because I'm I've been doing it long enough with chat and Claude that, you know, it you know, it starts to pick up on my procedures, you know, and and the way I do things. And then I can say, okay, this guy, you know, here's what he wants, here's what he thinks about it. I want to send him a letter explaining the process, how long it's gonna last, where probably the investment's gonna have to go, how much time, how much money. And, you know, I can get back a first draft and work that up. you know in about thirty minutes where it would have might have taken me three hours and I can send him back something that really he has in his hand and he can read it and say, okay, that makes sense. I'm willing to pay good money to do that. You know. And that's the other thing we've done with you know and it With everything being recorded and transcribed and really understanding their goals, you know, you can send them a document like I send everybody, especially in in my family law practice, not so much criminal law, because different things come at you. But, you know, we have a game plan, you know, literally call it a game plan. And that's a document that we filled out at the beginning, and it's what they want. Now, like it's their case. They can change it anytime they want, but they gotta understand that I'm working off of that. And that was from our conversations, which are transcribed. And you know, and saved, and any other emails or anything they've ever sent because those go in there, they go into there and they say, Hey, Tad, I don't want I don't want the Corvette anymore. He, you know, he screwed it up. You know, I wanted to take it from him, you know, just because I knew how much he liked it, or something like that. You know, that goes in there, and now we're not trying to get the Corvette. So then at mediation, and she says, 'Hey, I wanted his Corvette.' And No, no, no, no, that's not what you want. I got it right here on this date. You called and told us you you'd give it up on that, you know, or you didn't. you decided that you know he did something nice to you or something you whatever but that's the stuff AI has done and made it so easy to be a better lawyer and that's what that's what's beautiful about AI. You can be a better lawyer. And so a lot of people think AI can replace you. It should it's it can't yet maybe it will but what it's doing right now it makes you a better lawyer if you if you know how to use the tools. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, there's a lot of predictions out there about how which industries are gonna be infect affected most, disrupted most. I've I read, you know, accountants and lawyers. Some people are predicting that they're will be you know, eliminated or at least reduced. What are your thoughts about that? TAD: Well, I can I can see them being reduced. Absolutely. and you know, I even thought like, you know, criminal law would be one of the hardest ones. But if you literally, you know, if you if both sides type up what they think happened and feed it into something that has, you know, every result ever done, I mean, I I don't see why you'd need a lawyer. I mean, I can see in my head how everybody could be replaced. You know. It it it could you know, it could be like the British barrister system where you have the the lawyer, that might be the computer and the barrister who just hands it to the court, you know, who the heck knows? But it could definitely yeah. There's nothing we do that well, I will tell you this, there's not one thing that's done in my office by somebody that can't be done better by AI. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: That's sc that's scary for for some people, but I think it you know, it goes it goes to back to what you said is is start using it now and and get ahead of it. At least you you know, you won't be one of those unfortunate firms that that falls behind, right? TAD: Right, and especially, you know, when you look at SEO and everything. This is literally like the beginning of SEO was again. So now there's a whole nother push to get at the front of, you know, the AI advertising. And you better be getting on it. You better be doing whatever you can to stay out there. And you know, for example, my blogs, I I've I use a I I use a program called Surfer, and it helps me write these blogs. So I so I write one up however I get it, and then I put it into Surfer, and Surfer we kind of go through it and see where we can enhance. It and watch it score. Well, four months ago, I just got an SEO score. You know, starting two months ago, I get an SEO score and an AI score. So you know what how you're doing. So you really, if your if your blog doesn't rate, you know, rate high enough on surfer, you don't even bot waste bot putting it on there. You know, because at the end of the day, you know, none of the stuff we're doing on our websites is. you know, touchy feely, you know, inspirational in the sense of just to tell somebody a story. We're all doing it on the back channel to get benefit from it. I mean, don't lie to yourself. You know, yeah, if it can if it can if it can educate you or inform you at the same time it gets me SEO juice or AI juice, more power to it, right? But at the end of the day, it's don't don't fool yourself. People are putting blogs on those to give them, you know, readability, to give them readership, to give them numbers. No doubt about it. Because it's a business. And that's the problem with Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, well said, I agree. TAD: lawyers, Pete, is that and I kind of went to a seminar about three years ago. And you know, I I I've gotta tell you, I was one of the you know, I kinda inherently from coming from business school at UT, kinda wanted to grow my business and always saw it like as a five lawyer thing. And then I went to this seminar, you know, about three years ago and saw a lot of things I wasn't doing and immediately picked up on and for example, you know, probably had some blind spots and intake. Well, if you've got a twenty six percent, you know, blind spot and intake and you're a two million dollar firm, well you you just you just you know, brought in half a million dollars you know, if you can fix that blind spot. So that's what those kind of things and then some of the other things and and they finally got us back into more vi so there was a couple quick things that these these guys, these business coaches, kind of pointed us in the right direction. And then you know how business works. Once there's momentum to grow, I mean, if once you stop growing you're dying, you know? If it's growing, Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Mm. TAD: you can't stop it. You know, and if you do, it it fades like you know, like dead fruit on a vine. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. It's either growing or dying. If it's if it's staying the same, it's it's dying because of inflation, right? TAD: Yeah. And relative to the others just running by you. So if you're if you're stagnant, you know, those five firms that were right under you that wouldn't get that case. Well, if you're staying put and they're not, th there's those five firms are now getting that case. So I mean, i it it's really bizarre because, you know, like I said, so many lawyers don't understand business. They just get comfortable, you know, you know You know, sending their shirts out and going out to dinner twice a month, that kind of thing. But maybe being a member of the country club. But the reality of it is, I mean, and then what you know, once you do realize the growth, you know, sky's the limit. You know, you really can just keep it it it's pieces that you plug in, you know. Hey, if you want to make if you want more people to call your f you know your office, well you better put more into you know, advertising. It's that simple, you know. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, well, tad bit a lot of great insights today. I got I got one final question for you. If you could pick one practical tip for business owners wanting to build a respectable business like you have over the long term, what would it be? TAD: Treat every client the same. People, especially in in any business, it's it's it it's like a restaurant, a McD at McDonald's or the finest steakhouse. If everybody's treated with kindness, respect, dignity, and they know you're doing good hard work for you know, that that is the number one thing to run a business is how you treat the people. I mean, it is an honor for somebody to come to your office and give you money to do work for them. You know, so many people think, you you know, I'm doing you a favor. No, no, no. Anybody that walks in your office. I get that come off the street. I had a kid yesterday, he was hysterical. he wanted a He he wanted to talk about getting some stuff off his record. And he he literally was on the mowing team across the street at another place. So this 25-year-old kid, he had some problems when he was 18, comes in my office sweaty like there's no tomorrow. And you know, dripping sweat. I brought him in the office. He's, you know, sweat everywhere. But The number one thing he wanted to know was how I could, you know, if there was any way to fix his, you know, he told me about his case, I couldn't fix it. But but I explained to him the process. I explained to him, I went and got the statute for him, showed it to him, you know, I treated him with dignity and respect. And when he left, he walked out and came back and he said, Mr. Nelson, thank you. I'm gonna go right to your review. Well, just because we we we gave him respect. That's all people want in this world. You know? That's really what they want. They want you to to know that somebody is listening to them. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. Well said. Awesome, Tad. really appreciate you coming on today. A lot of good insights. it you know if listeners enjoy this conversation as much as I have. Where's the best place they can find you and and learn more about your you and your business, the articles you write? TAD: Well, our website is an easy one. It's tadlaw dot com. And we are basically all over social media. tat tad.n on TikTok, tad underscore Nelson. I mean tad dot nelson on TikTok, tad underscore Nelson on Instagram. So, you know, we we post little things every day on, you know, Instagram and Facebook. Yeah, please come follow us. Yeah, we're we're we're out there posting. We it's kind of fun, you know. We do a lot of legal informative stuff, but we've kinda just kinda it's so much fun with the world out there. We've kinda gotten into some p political stuff too that's fun. There's just too much going on not to jab at that. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Awesome. I'll leave that in the show notes. Thanks for coming on today, Tad. A great conversation. TAD: Thanks, Pete. You're great. Have a great day.