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The Senior Living Secret Most Families Don’t Know: What Happens When You Need More Care? · A Place for Seniors

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to a place for seniors, where we share the real truth about what seniors need.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast features honest, heartfelt conversations, the ones we don't always have, but matter the most.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Here we share real stories and simple insights about aging with dignity, choice, and autonomy.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Together, we bring what we've learned from over 20,000 conversations with seniors and their families, guiding you through some of life's hardest decisions.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: We invite you to listen, learn, and prepare with us because these conversations matter and the choices we make today shape our tomorrow.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, and I'm Alison Carmen, and welcome to my podcast, A Place for Seniors.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And today I have uh Sarah Kelly back with me again because we were just chatting and had such a good time before.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna just continue this conversation.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna do it.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: So today we're gonna talk um specifically about uh CCRCs, which is continuing care retirement communities.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about what that is and how they got started.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: So they started really in the back east and in the Midwest, right?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: So they yeah.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So from my understanding, they started back east.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was a big thing.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because it they didn't really have communities, senior living.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't have yeah, they didn't have senior living, they didn't have assisted living.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: You still went to that dreaded nursing home.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: You went into working.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and and some states are still that.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: So some states are still kind of like it's kind of a nursing home.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So they kind of started back then because the thought process was for everybody, and it's still uh I talk to families and try to explain it um still to this day.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: The everyone thinks I'm going to need a skilled nursing at end of life.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a big selling component.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the things, let's back up for a minute.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: A CCRC is an independent living.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: With an assisted living that's um that can be that you can go to, but separate.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Those people do not mingle with the independent living people.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: We want to make that clear.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about that.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because that's and then you have a memory care, which is a secured environment for people that may wander away, uh, need uh exceptional 24-hour care.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's a skilled nursing, which we know as nursing homes.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so usually it's those components, those four components that make up a true C C R Correct.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's, you know, one of their selling points is well, then it you've got this continuum of care.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: So once you are in independent living, should you need assisted living, you kind of just then move to assisted living.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you need memory care, and if you ever need skilled nursing, then you'll they'll have this skilled nursing.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I worked in a community that it was just assisted living and it had a or and memory care and I had skilled nursing, but it's the very first community I worked in.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it was explained to me, because I didn't understand the concept.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if my residence for my assisted living or my memory care went to a hospital and they need skilled nursing, they'll come back here, right?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And she would say no.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've got the case manager, the social worker that's at the hospital.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: When someone's going to get discharged, and if they need skilled nursing, they just look for a bed that's available.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Any bed that's any bed in a skilled nursing.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And those skilled nursings that are attached to a CCRC will take outside patients.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: They'll take outside patients.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: So so, and you can say I live at XY community, yeah, and I'd like to go to that skilled nursing.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if they don't have a bed available, you don't go there.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just it's not so it's not necessarily how they lay it out.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, when we've got this additional piece.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Correct, correct.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and the independent living is very beautiful.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, grandiose.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it looks like five-star resorts.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Gorgeous.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: But what they don't show you on the tour, then, is the assisted living in the memory care.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you just had somebody call you about one, right?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us that story.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this very sweet lady.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Her and her husband were looking at um a CCRC in North Scottsdale, and she thought it was beautiful.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And she said It is one of the most beautiful communities.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's breathtaking.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: It is breathtaking.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is, you walk in and you go, okay, I could live here.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is where I want to be.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I asked her, that's great.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see their assisted living?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's a selling point, right?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can that's what you're buying.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're buying.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: They even know that that's what they're buying.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, Well, no, I didn't.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Why do you think that is?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't take us there.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Did they even offer?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't even mention it.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: She said, other than it's just a part of the process.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So what I told her was, Well, when you've got some time, I'd love for you to go back to that community and ask them to see their assisted living.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: You've already seen independent, but you need to see what the next step is.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: That they're selling you.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: That they're selling you.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: So she went back herself without her husband.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um I talked to her maybe a couple days after that.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, I'm so glad you said that.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, What do you think?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, It looked like a nursing home.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's institutional.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: I said, It's very different from their independent living is.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Yes.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, And did they also tell you that once you go to assisted living, you cannot go back and visit your friends in independent living.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't go back and have lunch with them.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: They have to come to you.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you're sequestered off in this no-man area.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and she goes, I didn't realize that.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, they sell you the the the pretty, but unfortunately, the continuum of care after that is not um not where many people want to be.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's it's very sterile.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's very much like a hospital or um or or a nursing home.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: But the option is you've got assisted livings that are beautiful.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: But why would you want to and they've got your money, so you're not gonna go anywhere else.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the yeah, the the other thing is that first of all, let's talk about what the entrance fee is to a CCRC.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: So a continuum care retirement community, if it is a and they have these part A's and part Bs, and I'm not even gonna get in, try to different planes.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's all smoke and mirrors anyway.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: So people, you know, oh look over here.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because now, since when those started, and I'm gonna say 30 years ago.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Probably 30, 30, 20, 30 years ago, 30 years ago that that whole model came out.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we didn't have directed care and assisted living, right?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you couldn't build a company, you couldn't build a community that you could offer that kind of care.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Directed care, meaning you can lay hands on someone.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: That means you can pick them up and move them in from a wheelchair onto a toilet, right?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can turn them in bed.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can you know whether you're gonna staff to this or not, that's another question, but that's where they all vary, which people don't know that, right?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you could be a two-person assist, you could be a hoyer lift, all and that all was relegated prior to the laws changing to a skilled nursing.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now you can go into an assisted living and get that same level of care without paying this entrance fee.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the entrance fee that um uh we're talking about in Scottsdale can be as high as 2.5 million.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: 2.5 million.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it could be as low as uh 250,000.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: 350,000.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think Westminster's Westminster's, I think is 250,000.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: 250 or 300.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: But then you get into the millions.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: But then you get into the millions.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And back east, you're looking at something around again, 250 or something like that.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: I had a lady called me uh a little go a little while ago.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: She'd been back to Pennsylvania.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: She really loved this place.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she goes, it was really pretty.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and the rates weren't that bad, you know.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: She wants to say about 4,000 for a one-bedroom.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and granted, here's this lady.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: She makes social security income of$2,000.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: She fell into a house that they bought for$180,000 prior to 2020, sold it for$600,000 in Arizona.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So she has probably about$400,000 if she hasn't spent through any of it, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: She's gonna take$160,000 of that$400,000 or uh maybe even$200,000 and give that to that community.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: What is she getting in return?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: She's getting an insurance product.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: She is not getting a piece of property.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna have to sell that apartment, you're not buying an apartment, you are buying an insurance product, right?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they are governed by the insurance, what do I want to call them?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the different states have different insurance uh boards or or regulations, rules and regulations.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Every state is different.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Every state is different.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so now you're you're actually buying an insurance product.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you have a long-term care policy and you go and pay that on top of that, aren't you double double insuring yourself?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Basically.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna get into a few of the cons here.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So so now you've you've given them a million bucks.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Big chunk of change, yeah.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what are they gonna do with that million dollars?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they're gonna invest it.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna invest it for themselves.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: For themselves.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: So they're gonna make money off your money.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And uh when you could be making money off that money, uh Well, that's a hundred thousand a year at a small interest rate.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, easily.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they call it a buy-in.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're not really buying anything.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: They call it a buy-in.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a buy-in.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you're still and I don't know if that's smoke and mirrors either, because that you're not buying the only thing you're buying is an insurance product.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know how many times I explain that in a conversation with people, they still come back to me and they say, Now, what do you mean it's an insurance product?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: So they've been there, they've talked to these people, they've talked to the salesperson.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I was on a tour with somebody with a salesperson.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, it's not an insurance product, but it's uh still it's uh entrance fee community.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but when she was explaining it, I wasn't getting it.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I've done this for 16 years and sold that product.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, what are you saying?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I finally had to say to her, this is a financial guy.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in uh, you know, he's done finance his whole life.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: He is a very uh experienced, you know, he has the money to do this, yeah, you know.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um, she's uh I said, you know, you really, the salespeople, I don't think, I never understood it until I just studied, I had to keep asking questions, keep asking questions.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and I can't imagine somebody going on a tour, but they're so dazzled.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So dazzled.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're so dependent on the spendliness of it.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if your feeder from that independent living is to that assisted living that is closed, right?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you can take people from the outside, they will, but they don't have to most of the time because they're full.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: They feed it, yeah.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're independent because they're feeding it from the independent living.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now, not all of them do this.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: However, my experience where I worked, I had to go over to the independent living apartments with the nurse and tell the person that they had to move to our assisted living.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And there was probably a reason for that.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know the reasoning behind that.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: My thought was they had full-time care in their independent living.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Why do they have to move to an assisted living?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Did they not look right?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say it's the aesthetics of it.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Did they not this the the is it the aesthetics of aged people so that you couldn't get your 70-year-olds to move into your independent living because they saw these people that had a caregiver sitting at the dining table or with walkers, or with walkers or wheelchairs.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they're trying to keep about this persona that is very much independent.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's very independent.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, and so they um so I had to do that.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I was talking to another gal who is has was in this industry and actually worked in the HR department of several some of the big ones, right?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was talking to her yesterday and she was recalling a gentleman.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, David, and I remember David, and you know, and she was talking about him going into memory care and declining so quickly with Alzheimer's.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and it does happen.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: The person changes so much.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I said, Isn't it interesting that you can still see his face?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And she goes, Yes, it was years ago.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yeah, I still see those people's face that I had to go tell that they had to move into that assisted living apartment.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: It had nowhere near the the style of food.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, the the the dining room was nothing like what they were used to.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Their grand, the grand piano was not there anymore.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Everything was gone.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're sitting in this small little apartment, the two of them, and her looking at me, going, Allison, why did we have to do this?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll never forget her face.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: I can still see her sitting there with that look on her face.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, and then I also knew the level of care that was in that community, right?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't appreciate the level of care that was in that community because I didn't understand other assisted livings.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was not the best care.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why wasn't it the best care?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because they are a monopoly.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was gonna say it's they don't have any competition.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, again, because once you move to that independent living and you play that large amount, you're not gonna move to a different assisted living.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're out of that money.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're out that money.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna stay with the assisted living.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then people move from that independent into that system and you seem to decline quicker than they do at other communities because it's it's that environment.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Again, you're it's an afterthought.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh, hey, you can age in place here, yeah, but once you age age beyond independent living, it's they decline quicker because it is not a fairly.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or they can they can stand and pivot, but they can't do much else, right?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we use these terms all the time: stand and pivot, two-person assist, hoyer lift, meaning somebody's bedbound, the only way they can get from the bed to the wheelchair is with a apparatus, um, those kind of things, right?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a big deal because it's labor, it's labor intensive, right?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's more cost, it's more time.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Everything is time for your caregivers, right?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of companies don't staff to that.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: So if this CCRC in assisted living does not staff to a two-person assist, that person who is now not able to walk across the room to the toilet by themselves or with a walker, um, they're gonna go to the skilled nursing, right?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So now they're gonna transfer them from that assisted living apartment to the skilled nursing.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I also saw that.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: I saw the other big thing that they, if it's a life plan community, yeah, then they say, we'll take care of you for the rest of your life.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yep if you even if you run out of money at no fault of your own, which means you don't gamble it away, you don't give it away.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're not buying properties and losing so you're not losing your money on your own fault, but it's sitting there.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And if you run out of, if you run out of those funds.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now the other thing that happens, what do they do at the very beginning of that whole process?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: They are going to uh go through your funds with a fine-tooth comb to make sure that all your finances never run out of money.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: But you will never run out of the money.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: They want to make sure, yeah.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's not like you can have um, you know, a million dollars in the bank pay that$500,000 you know buy-in, and then that's just it's not enough.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: You've you've got to meet their financial Their actuary.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Their actuary.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to meet the.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: So they're gonna make sure.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that again, that's a great selling point, right?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you ever run out of money, but they're gonna go through all your finances.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to turn over all your finances.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what else are they gonna do?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna do a medical.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want they want independent people.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want you needing assisted in the Well, no, they're gonna hedge their bet because they're not gonna they're not gonna take anybody with a terminal disease or a dementia diagnosis.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're not gonna take those folks.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you if you come in and you've got the slightest limb, but they're not gonna turn you away.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, they want a specific person.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they have a nurse that does the assessment.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: You sit with them and they do the assessment.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I actually sat in on one of those assessments.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: They probably didn't want me there, but I kind of force myself in because I wanted to see the process.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: See the process, right?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, yeah, and and so they know the lifespan.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: They know if you have any kind of a disease.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes they'll let you come in with certain diseases and things like that, but they're hedging their bets, man.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're they are hedging their bets.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: They're all it's already all done like that.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, unfortunately.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And nobody ever thinks they're gonna need assisted living.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, of course not.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I hear all this.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: My dad says, I'm just I'm gonna die in my sleep.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna happen.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna happen, but it's that's what everyone thinks.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and blissfully so, if that's the case.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: But we that's like what when two percent of people, it's not alert.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's not everybody.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So and more often than not, people are gonna be isolated in their homes and something drastic is gonna happen.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna fall, they're gonna have a heart attack, they're gonna have a stroke by themselves.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And now, because they're by themselves and they won't wear that life alert because it's ugly, right?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't want to stand out like a senior with a life alert on, they won't have that if they fall, have a heart attack, have a stroke, you know, start, you know, those are the three major things.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if you if any of those things happen, you're probably not going back to your house.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 17:38
  unknown: Right?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we hear it all the time.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: All right, all the time coming back home.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're not all the time back in the home.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're not going back home.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: The dog now, and I always talk about this, and I I think I drum this into everybody's head on every single podcast.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Seniors want independence and they want choice and they want empowerment to make a decision on their own, and they want, which is knowledge, which is what we provide, and they also want dignity and respect.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, how much dignity and respect is there if I, as the management, they look at me as the management, go into their independent living apartment where they have full-time care.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now I had a lady fight me on it, which I was like, good for you.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she wouldn't do it.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: She just absolutely said, No, her husband needed full-time care.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: She was completely independent.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: She said, No, we're not moving.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna make me move.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she'll go get an attorney.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And she wasn't gonna leave, you know, and they had full-time care for him in their independent living apartment, which is what they should have.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, right.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And as long as they have that, it should be fine.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: But again, they gotta keep up that.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I had to go twice into that apartment with them.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll never forget that.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: She was just looking daggers in her eyes.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was not happening, right?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't blame her.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't blame her either.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't blame her either.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, as we're, you know, those those those things that we don't want to have happen.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we have in Arizona probably more communities second to uh uh only second to Florida and affordable communities with assisted livings that are like resorts.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful, beautiful independent living that you walked into that you thought you fell in love with.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: There are assisted living livings.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in the in absolutely.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to, I want you to see that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I want you to know that's available.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And how many times have you taken people on tours and they walk in?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: I had a lady, a couple of times this has happened to me where they walk in and when we do the tour, we have lunch, we leave, and they're almost in tears because they go, I had no clue.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I had no clue.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Jaw-dropping moments.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, literally one lady, her community was closing.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I took her, her and a couple of her friends to see another community, and and we were walking around, she started crying.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Oh my gosh, are you okay?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, No other happy tears.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know this existed.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know I could have my own little casita and you know, people I know where you took them to Glencroft.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: I took them in Glencroft and she was in in tears.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because she had her tiny little apartment that was turning into a eventually they went 55 plus and then they went family, I think.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Multifamily.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: And took her to to Glencroft.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it was affordable.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was what she could afford, but because she was, I don't want to say she was low income, but she didn't she didn't have much of an income.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um but she could, she got her own little casino.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and we ate, and she as we were walking back to the car with the four ladies, she was had happy tears.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there's so much out there, and that and that's where we come in.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: We come in.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I love to be able to do that to see those tears and say, I never knew this.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's my job.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people don't understand that.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know we've talked a lot about CCRCs.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: We can go through all the pros and cons, and you certainly can always give us a call and talk to us about that, right?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you my opinions.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you always feel about them.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of cons that people don't know um and they don't understand.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I have very, very wealthy people tell me, you know, I won't do that.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm not gonna do that.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: I've been advised not to do it by my financial advisor.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, it's not necessary.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, you don't need that.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now it is it beautiful?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, it's beautiful.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what sells them is the flashiness of it.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but the point of, well, so what?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right, you know, so what?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's the community, it's the people living there.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we have wait lists on the ones in North Scottsdale, people that are waiting two or three years.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now, are they gonna wait?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna make it those two or three years?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, what could those two or three years do if you if you wait those two or three years?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And even some of them tell you to be on the wait list, you have to put$40,000 down, which is ridiculous.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: It is ridiculous.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: When you have so many other options, yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and they're not bad options, they're very comparable options, right?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Very much so.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: You just need let me let us show you.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let us show you.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let us show you.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're the ones like a real estate agent that knows their properties backwards and forwards.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: My mother was a real estate agent.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: She opened, you know, she did resale in Sun City, Sun City West, and Grand.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: And And she knew those floor plans backwards and forwards.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: When you told her what she wanted, she knew exactly where to take you.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: She knew exactly how to list your house.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: She knew exactly what the buyer was going to come in.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: That is expertise that is incredibly valuable.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Our services are free.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And people don't even understand that we get paid by the communities.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: We don't get paid by them.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, they don't pay us a salary.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if they move into a community, that community pays us a 50 to 100% of the first month's rent and possibly care.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And when they do that, that cost never ever gets passed on to that family in any way.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Nope.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: They get the same, they have to get the same concessions.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: They have to get all of that.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't do that, we can call them on.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not lawful.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and I tell families too, you know, I'm here to help you through that whole process.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Help you maybe even negotiate a lower rate.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's it's the benefit.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know we know the incentives.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: We know the incentives.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: The incentives during the summertime.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I don't know when this is gonna change, but I I don't know that it ever will because we are talking about people's last chapter, right?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully you get to live another five.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're 80, the likelihood of you living another nine years to 10 years is pretty probable if you are active, if you are social.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or sitting in a recliner.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Full advantage of those communities.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're sitting in a recliner, and how many people, how many people sit in a recliner and they tell you they're doing stuff.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so if you're if you're listening and you're a you're a daughter or a son and you know that your parent says, Oh, yeah, I'm fine.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, what'd you do today?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I, you know, but every single time you call them, they're in their chair watching television.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was my dad.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Every time I called him, what do you do?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm watching TV.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: No matter what time of day it was, it was watching TV.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: They're watching TV in a chair.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're sitting, you're atrophying, and after 80, you start atrophying quite a bit, right?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're not social.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Socialization is the silver bullet.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: 50% chance of dementia by lack of socialization.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you start, you you start thinking, oh, my mom and her dad are slipping.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're slipping.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're not as sharp as they were, but they're okay.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but they're okay.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's the denial on that aspect.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's the denial.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, of course, they're okay for now.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're just waiting for something to happen.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: All their friends are passing away.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or they've moved away.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or they moved away, yeah.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or they've gone to community.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or they moved into a community, yeah.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, uh, it's a big deal.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big deal that people don't talk about or even understand.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that the the uh, you know, and I I I know, you know, talking about a CCRC um and and the pros and cons of it, and really we're talking about the cons of it, um, because people just don't understand that product.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, you are around other people that can afford a million dollars to move there.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it you need to be savvy.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think you need to be making at least a fully knowledgeable decision.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Even knowing that those are the other things, even if that is the case, that you know that when where I worked, we were discouraged from taking people over to the assisted living.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I ask every time they say they went to see a a CCR, a bar CCRC or buy-in, I'll say, Did you see their assisted living?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Did you go see their memory care?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Did they show that to you?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, it wasn't even offered to me.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I another point that I was starting to make and didn't finish was that if you are that two-person assist and they don't staff to that, you're gonna go to their skilled nursing.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna go to their skilled nursing.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if their skilled nursing isn't open, you're gonna have to find something else.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna pay double in a skilled nursing.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you're probably, if you are you have some dementia or some behaviors, or you're you're not, you're, you're not, you're not dealing well with the people in your room, they're gonna park you at the nurses station in a wheelchair.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to see that that was heartbreaking.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I saw that so many times uh in this skilled nursing, the skilled nursing part of the community that I worked in.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it was devastating.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: What a way to l live out your life.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sit in a wheelchair next to a nursing station.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's that's but that's when people think of senior living.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's what they think.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they think of.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: They think of a nursing home.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: They think of a nursing nursing.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they've been exposed to because their parent has probably done in a rehap.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And they've been there, so that's all they think that's available.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: But no one wants to live their life like that.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody because there's so many great.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no independence, there's no choice, there's no empowerment, there's no dignity and respect.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and the more we can expose this, the more we can talk about, hopefully, we can get it better.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would much prefer it to be better, but I yeah, I do know that we have alternatives, at least in Arizona, in the western states.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: In the western states, yeah, it's really, really happening.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was on a big panel with a bunch of people that uh were in this industry from all over the country.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was saying, you know, people can move into a community for$2,500 here.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And this lady in New Jersey said, How?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Where?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Where is this?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and yes, we have that here in Arizona.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we have it in New Mexico, and we have it in Utah, we have it in all different Colorado, probably$3,500.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Probably.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're a little bit more expensive.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're a little more expensive.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: But still, it's a doable thing.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: What they don't understand, it's all inclusive, right?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's meals, housekeeping, utilities, cable, Wi-Fi, transportation, lots of fun.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, lots of activity going on.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they can compete on.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: They can compete on the food, they can compete on the activities, they can compete on the customer service.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you take all of that competition away and you're in a CCRC and you have an assisted living, they're not competing.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Of course not.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have to serve you.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: You already got your money.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: They've got you.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So they got you.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: They've got you.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Sarah, thank you for always talking about this because I know it's a it's a controversial, but it's a touchy subject.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little well, we're just basically saying the truth.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I I don't mind ever saying the truth.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: So now you've got to be honest.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: People should know.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: People have to know because they they see the the the beautifulness of it, but they don't see the other component.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: So they don't understand it.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know because they're so taken away but what they see initially, right?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: That they don't even think about, okay, well, I want to see the assisted living too.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's that's a big part of it too.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna wrap it up here.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I want you to go to my website if you want more information or talk to either one of us or anybody on my team.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can go to a placeforseniors.org and you can sign up for my seminars, which are twice a month, and it's on the events page.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: So just go to a placeforseniors.org events and you can register for a seminar, and we can talk to you in person.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.