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YOUR LIFE'S GOING DOWN THE TOILET! · Like a Virgin

0:03
Speaker 1: Brain blast. Do you're what's Jimmy Neutron? Mm hmm, there's
0:07
Speaker 1: dummy thick mom, the mom with a dumb trunk ass
0:13
Speaker 1: she does. Have you seen Jimmy Neutra's mom. Jimmy Neutra's
0:17
Speaker 1: mom is his mom, the mom from the Fairly Odd
0:19
Speaker 1: Parents too. Oh yeah, they are packing these women are.
0:24
Speaker 1: I love the wagons they dragon. I have two favorite
0:34
Speaker 1: movies of all time that are kind of nugga nut. Okay,
0:36
Speaker 1: I think I know what they are. One of them
0:38
Speaker 1: is Marie Antoinette. Was Marie Antoinette, And the other one
0:42
Speaker 1: is Rear Window, the Hitchcock movie. Right, extremely boring, boring,
0:48
Speaker 1: Already we are. We are less than a minute into
0:51
Speaker 1: this podcast, and you're already coming for me, coming in
0:54
Speaker 1: hot with bad takes about Alfred Hitchcock. I was a
0:58
Speaker 1: kid with a d h D. I couldn't muscle my
1:00
Speaker 1: way through most fold movies. Okay, well, I think that's
1:05
Speaker 1: that's a you thing, not a Hitchcock thing. Okay, sure, okay,
1:08
Speaker 1: those have been my favorite movies for years. But I
1:12
Speaker 1: think a third option presented itself somewhat recently, and I
1:19
Speaker 1: believe it is also your favorite movie. It is not
1:23
Speaker 1: one of my favorite movies. Moonstruck is uncontestedly my favorite movie,
1:29
Speaker 1: point blank period and I have it tattooed on my leg.
1:32
Speaker 1: We'll get into that. Today. We were talking about Moonstruck
1:37
Speaker 1: film starring Share Nicholas Cage, Olympu du Cacus, that one
1:42
Speaker 1: guy from Frasier. Yes, before that, we're going to talk
1:46
Speaker 1: about what's going on in pop culture. It's the end
1:49
Speaker 1: of the year, so maybe we'll like take a look
1:52
Speaker 1: back on some of our favorite pieces of pop culture
1:55
Speaker 1: from We will toxically around up the best of the year,
2:00
Speaker 1: create hierarchy. Yeah, we might do them against you. We
2:02
Speaker 1: might do some lists. Uh. This is like a Virgin
2:05
Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk about yesterday's pop culture and
2:08
Speaker 1: give it today's takes. I'm ros damn you, I'm fan
2:11
Speaker 1: Toronto and that's a more a. I'm excited that we're
2:17
Speaker 1: gonna talk about all of this stuff that we really
2:20
Speaker 1: loved from this year and nothing that we didn't like,
2:22
Speaker 1: because we only we want to go forward into two
2:26
Speaker 1: with positivity. That's right. This is our year in review,
2:29
Speaker 1: our queer in review. If you will love that. I
2:34
Speaker 1: guess we should start with TV because I don't know
2:36
Speaker 1: about you. But that's like the thing that I consumed
2:38
Speaker 1: the most of this year. A lot of my faves
2:41
Speaker 1: where everybody else's faves, like loved Wan Division, loved sex Education.
2:46
Speaker 1: I was there for White Lotus and Hacks like every week.
2:50
Speaker 1: I think if I were to think about what my
2:53
Speaker 1: like standout shows of the year were, Legendary the season
2:57
Speaker 1: two of Legendary was definitely one of them. I watched
3:01
Speaker 1: every episode multiple times. I was so invested in every
3:06
Speaker 1: single team. For those of you that don't know, Legendary
3:10
Speaker 1: is like a ballroom culture competition reality series on HBO
3:13
Speaker 1: Max that is just some of the best reality TV
3:18
Speaker 1: storytelling I've heard in ages, combined with dance sequences that
3:22
Speaker 1: are mind blowing. Another show, Well, actually, what what were
3:26
Speaker 1: What was one of your favorites from one Division? Definitely,
3:30
Speaker 1: you know, that was a big moment for us. We
3:32
Speaker 1: watched it together every week. It was event television in
3:35
Speaker 1: a way that we haven't had in a while. It
3:37
Speaker 1: felt like truly everyone was watching it and it was
3:41
Speaker 1: really compelling. It was, like, I think, one of the
3:45
Speaker 1: best things the m c U has done in years.
3:48
Speaker 1: But I guess if I'm thinking of a standout episode
3:51
Speaker 1: of a show. This one's pretty recent, but the final
3:55
Speaker 1: season of Pen fifteen just came out on Hulu, and
3:58
Speaker 1: there's an episode Yuki that's about one of the character's moms,
4:02
Speaker 1: And it's like one of those episodes of a TV
4:04
Speaker 1: show where it focuses on a character who's not the lead,
4:08
Speaker 1: and it gives this woman who is just like a mother.
4:11
Speaker 1: There's interior life, and like she meets up with her
4:15
Speaker 1: ex husband and they have this whole day together and
4:18
Speaker 1: it's so like beautiful and sad and sweet, and I
4:25
Speaker 1: just really loved it and it has stuck with me
4:28
Speaker 1: since I watched it. I think I think it's one
4:30
Speaker 1: of the best episodes of TV I've seen in years.
4:34
Speaker 1: I am still making my way through season two. I
4:36
Speaker 1: can't wait to watch that episode. If we're talking about
4:39
Speaker 1: fave episodes of the year, I will reserve my thoughts
4:43
Speaker 1: for Pose as a whole. However, the Electra episode of
4:48
Speaker 1: Pose and Her Argent Story, which I think is episode
4:51
Speaker 1: three of this last season, is maybe the best episode
4:54
Speaker 1: of the entire show. It was so compelling and beautiful
4:59
Speaker 1: and original and thoughtful. Um. I also really really loved
5:04
Speaker 1: Hunter Schaefer's special episode of Euphoria that came out at
5:07
Speaker 1: the beginning of this year. It's one that, like I
5:10
Speaker 1: talked about in therapy multiple times. It like haunted me.
5:14
Speaker 1: I thought it was like exquisite writing, um I I.
5:18
Speaker 1: But also something that you and I both enjoyed is
5:21
Speaker 1: the episode of Schmiga Dun that involves both an amazing
5:26
Speaker 1: Ariana Debo's performance and a four and a half minute
5:31
Speaker 1: song by Kristin Chenowith wherein she's like spitting rhymes and
5:37
Speaker 1: she does it all in one take. That was a
5:39
Speaker 1: great episode. I do think though, that the Schmicka Dune
5:42
Speaker 1: episode I liked more was the one with Jane Kurkowski
5:46
Speaker 1: where she does that that number. Well, she's she's standing
5:49
Speaker 1: on top of the car. I feel like people really slip.
5:53
Speaker 1: I was gonna say slept. People are really slept on
5:55
Speaker 1: Schmiga Dun year. It really did. But if you're not
5:58
Speaker 1: familiar with Schmigadoon and um, it's like basically this rom
6:03
Speaker 1: com sitcom. We're in a couple stumbles upon a town
6:06
Speaker 1: that is basically a Rogers and Hammerstein musical, and it
6:10
Speaker 1: kind of pokes fun at various tropes within musicals. It's
6:14
Speaker 1: super funny, very ingenious. I also wanted to quickly touch
6:18
Speaker 1: on maybe my other favorite TV show of the year.
6:21
Speaker 1: I really loved this show sort Of, which is an
6:24
Speaker 1: HBO Max original. It's about a trans non binary Pakistani
6:29
Speaker 1: nanny bartender who is at kind of this like pivotal
6:33
Speaker 1: moment in their life. I'm not gonna lie I I
6:35
Speaker 1: really judged the show before I went into it, like
6:39
Speaker 1: the people that were recommending it to me were, i'll
6:42
Speaker 1: say it siss and to me like quite frankly, I
6:45
Speaker 1: think a lot of like media portrayals of non binary
6:47
Speaker 1: people specifically are are in a post them dot us
6:52
Speaker 1: world are like very manufactured, like they're very for like
6:56
Speaker 1: CIS consumption, And that's kind of what I thought I
6:58
Speaker 1: was getting into because like a lot of like portrayals
7:02
Speaker 1: of non binary people have this very like self serious,
7:06
Speaker 1: like over rotten nous. You know, it's like triumph porn,
7:09
Speaker 1: but sort of was so disinterested in the question of
7:13
Speaker 1: non binary identity and was really more of like a
7:16
Speaker 1: queer brown like Daria. If I were to give it
7:18
Speaker 1: like a comparison, I love that so much, dead pan
7:22
Speaker 1: and like floating through life like they're high stakes things
7:25
Speaker 1: that happened. There's a lot of like hijinks, but the
7:27
Speaker 1: show doesn't revel in conversations about pronouns, right, Like for
7:32
Speaker 1: me personally, like if if stories about pronouns are important
7:35
Speaker 1: and impactful for you to consume, that's cool. For me,
7:38
Speaker 1: they are overplayed and they're boring and they're just not
7:41
Speaker 1: what a general conforming experience is about. And like, I
7:45
Speaker 1: personally don't talk about this a lot, but like my
7:48
Speaker 1: gender has been like an ongoing project since I was
7:50
Speaker 1: a kid, but like most of the last two years
7:52
Speaker 1: have been looking at like where I belong on the
7:55
Speaker 1: trans spectrum and like what my gender means to me.
7:58
Speaker 1: And the promise of the show sort of is like
8:01
Speaker 1: that it's okay to still be evolving and that we
8:05
Speaker 1: should create space for that to be okay. So this
8:08
Speaker 1: show was like such a must watch. I was talking
8:11
Speaker 1: to my dad the other day and he like we
8:14
Speaker 1: kind of got into something about how like I don't
8:17
Speaker 1: like tell him things, and he was like, oh, and
8:19
Speaker 1: you like never talk to me about your transition anymore,
8:22
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't talk to anyone about
8:23
Speaker 1: it because it's not interesting. And I mean, it's great
8:27
Speaker 1: to have an offering that like is presenting the life
8:31
Speaker 1: of someone who is trans and like, of course that's
8:34
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's part of the story and there lived experience,
8:37
Speaker 1: but like the story is about a story exactly. Speaking
8:43
Speaker 1: of representation, get getting into the best of movies of
8:47
Speaker 1: the year. Finally, bad bitch as are represented in Cruelay
8:51
Speaker 1: Corella was I will okay, my my top three movies
8:55
Speaker 1: of the year were definitely The Green Night, Corrella and
8:59
Speaker 1: Spencer Krella was the first movie I saw back in
9:02
Speaker 1: theaters after I got vaccinated. It was so good, you know,
9:06
Speaker 1: I think we had been teased for so long about
9:08
Speaker 1: the Emma Stone Corrella movie, which like is, um, someone's
9:13
Speaker 1: made this joke before that like it's it's a movie
9:16
Speaker 1: that sounds like the premise came from a tweet that
9:20
Speaker 1: like Emma Stone should play young Cruella and like it
9:24
Speaker 1: actually happened. Yeah that is actually true. But it was
9:28
Speaker 1: a really fun movie. She was great in it. The
9:31
Speaker 1: looks were amazing, It had a killer soundtrack of all
9:35
Speaker 1: this like great like sixteas and seventies like rock and Punk.
9:38
Speaker 1: I honestly looked at the year end movies and I
9:42
Speaker 1: cannot really say that I had a faith. I'm not
9:46
Speaker 1: gonna lie. I think that there were a lot of
9:48
Speaker 1: movies that came out where I was like, I love that,
9:50
Speaker 1: but I had a huge problem with it. I mean,
9:52
Speaker 1: even with like something like in Conto, It's like that
9:54
Speaker 1: would have been a favor of the year, but like
9:56
Speaker 1: the music was really so so not it for me.
10:00
Speaker 1: Maybe shuan Chi was like the most fun I had
10:05
Speaker 1: while watching a movie this year. I also really loved
10:08
Speaker 1: the Tina Turner documentary on HBO Max. But other than that,
10:12
Speaker 1: I mean, movies were a flop for me this year.
10:14
Speaker 1: Should we get into music, Yeah, I'm looking on our notes.
10:18
Speaker 1: You have a very extensive list of your favorites. I
10:20
Speaker 1: only put one song, which was which was Message in
10:23
Speaker 1: a Bottle by Taylor Swift from Red Taylor's version. This
10:28
Speaker 1: is both like kind of a joke and also serious
10:31
Speaker 1: I Message in a Bottle. I think this is the
10:33
Speaker 1: best song of I honestly don't think it's a joke
10:36
Speaker 1: at all. I think that we should hold space for
10:38
Speaker 1: that to be a legitimate critique of the year in music.
10:41
Speaker 1: I totally agree with that. I'm on on board with it.
10:43
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. A lot
10:46
Speaker 1: of my favorite songs of the year where like everybody
10:49
Speaker 1: else's favorites, at least in queer world, like the Gasoline
10:54
Speaker 1: Him remix with Taylor I thought was amazing. We all
10:57
Speaker 1: loved like Please by Jesse Ware Bunny as a Right,
11:00
Speaker 1: or Silk Chiffon by Muna. I really loved the Dealer
11:05
Speaker 1: off of the new Lana del Rey album. Dealer was
11:07
Speaker 1: great Brutal. I don't think that the album was like
11:11
Speaker 1: a hit, but I thought Brutal was, like, so you didn't.
11:14
Speaker 1: I think Sour is my favorite album, and of all
11:19
Speaker 1: of the songs on it, good for You what Like,
11:23
Speaker 1: I had such a moment with good for You, Like
11:26
Speaker 1: that was one of my most listened to songs this
11:29
Speaker 1: year on Spotify, And I think the pop punk thing
11:33
Speaker 1: she was doing just really resonated um with me. And
11:37
Speaker 1: that is why Sour is my favorite new album of
11:41
Speaker 1: the year for sure. So I'm at a crossroads with
11:44
Speaker 1: Sour specifically because part of me feels like if it
11:48
Speaker 1: had just been an EP and it had been Brutal,
11:53
Speaker 1: Driver's License, good for You and like Jealousy, jealousy, you know,
11:57
Speaker 1: like those bangers like that absolutely would have been and
12:00
Speaker 1: like quote unquote album or like compilation of the year,
12:02
Speaker 1: but at the same time she had released an EP,
12:04
Speaker 1: it never would have been like this cult sensation. Obviously
12:07
Speaker 1: it had to be an album. So it's kind of
12:09
Speaker 1: stupid to say, but for me, there were a lot
12:11
Speaker 1: of skips on the album. There's some fill for sure. Yeah,
12:14
Speaker 1: there there's some filler queens, which is why it's not
12:16
Speaker 1: Album of the Year for me, but brutal undeniable. Um.
12:19
Speaker 1: In terms of my number ones for tracks. Um. There
12:23
Speaker 1: is an unreleased Scissor song that she herself put out
12:27
Speaker 1: on SoundCloud called Janie that It's like a minute and
12:30
Speaker 1: a half and features Scissor's whistle tone. I also loved
12:34
Speaker 1: Billie Eilish is Happier than ever, the title track on
12:37
Speaker 1: that album. If you are not a little eyelash, that
12:41
Speaker 1: song We'll set you Free. Um. And then I also
12:45
Speaker 1: loved Into the Count of It by Ocean Kelly, which
12:49
Speaker 1: is this kind of TikTok sound that remixes a song
12:52
Speaker 1: from the backyard agains that I think it's really amazing,
12:55
Speaker 1: and I think Ocean Kelly, who you know, there's kind
12:58
Speaker 1: of like some Azalea Banks Comparius Ends, but she made
13:00
Speaker 1: that one division remix. Her stuff is so good. She
13:04
Speaker 1: also did the song um can I get that Vegan Vegan?
13:10
Speaker 1: But she like that was one of the tracks of
13:12
Speaker 1: the year for me. I thought it was so good
13:14
Speaker 1: and so fun. This really was the year of TikTok
13:17
Speaker 1: Sounds that Willow song Mimi at our Spot what. I
13:23
Speaker 1: did listen to that a lot this year because of TikTok.
13:26
Speaker 1: It did come out like a year or two ago,
13:27
Speaker 1: but it was kind of a song of I liked
13:31
Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff she put out this year.
13:33
Speaker 1: I really liked her song with Avril Levine. It's like,
13:36
Speaker 1: it's only like two minutes long. I need. I need
13:39
Speaker 1: the girls to start making longer songs. It's not I
13:42
Speaker 1: need more than three minutes, babe. Obviously you and I
13:45
Speaker 1: loved Red and Solar Power, Yes and Soil of Pow.
13:50
Speaker 1: I guess like, when I'm thinking about my favorite album
13:53
Speaker 1: of the year, it's like, not even necessarily what did
13:55
Speaker 1: I love the most? Front to back? It's like, what
13:59
Speaker 1: is the album that like really was the vibe of
14:03
Speaker 1: for me? And it definitely was sour, which I mean
14:07
Speaker 1: like obviously makes me feel feel weird because I'm thirty
14:09
Speaker 1: three in the liberal labricos is eight, um, but I
14:14
Speaker 1: do kind of still give credence to the idea that
14:17
Speaker 1: she's like an industry plant who's making like music for
14:20
Speaker 1: millennials while like pretending that it's for gen Z. She
14:24
Speaker 1: was manufactured in a a gen Z laboratory. Should we
14:28
Speaker 1: go into books. I read a lot this year because,
14:32
Speaker 1: like I hate to say this, but it kind of
14:36
Speaker 1: is because of TikTok, because I like got really into
14:40
Speaker 1: TikTok this spring, and um like got really into book talk,
14:45
Speaker 1: and so I got a lot of really good book recommendations.
14:49
Speaker 1: And I would say my favorites are not really things
14:52
Speaker 1: that came out this year. Well, definitely, De Transition Baby
14:56
Speaker 1: was one of my favorite books of the year, and
14:57
Speaker 1: it was released this year and I think is an
15:00
Speaker 1: incredible novel by Tory Peters. But my favorite books that
15:05
Speaker 1: I read this year, Number one was A Certain Hunger
15:09
Speaker 1: by Chelsea G. Summers, which is sort of like a
15:13
Speaker 1: female American psycho. It's like a fake memoir of this
15:18
Speaker 1: food critic who is a serial killer cannibalist. It's super
15:23
Speaker 1: funny the way that she talks about food and sex
15:28
Speaker 1: is like so like beautifully grotesque. Definitely like if you
15:33
Speaker 1: enjoy that like sort of unreliable narrator, like evil protagonist,
15:39
Speaker 1: I would definitely check that out. And then I don't
15:42
Speaker 1: know if it's my favorite of the year, but kind
15:44
Speaker 1: of like an influential book through through which I became
15:49
Speaker 1: like a book influencer and made several people in my
15:52
Speaker 1: life read something was Red White and Royal Blue by
15:55
Speaker 1: Casey mcquinston. We're giggling because one this this book came
16:00
Speaker 1: out like a few years ago to like it's just
16:03
Speaker 1: like the quintessential like queer young adult, like it's not
16:07
Speaker 1: a young adult novel, but like new adult is like
16:09
Speaker 1: the categorization of what it is. And it was easily
16:13
Speaker 1: my book of the year, Like I I can't remember
16:17
Speaker 1: the last time I had such a emotional reaction to
16:21
Speaker 1: a book and how I really tore through a book.
16:23
Speaker 1: But if anyone who doesn't know what Red White and
16:26
Speaker 1: Royal Blue is, it's about the bisexual first son of
16:30
Speaker 1: the United States falling in love with the gay Prince
16:35
Speaker 1: of England and they have like a love affair and
16:38
Speaker 1: it's it's a rom com. It's like it has like
16:41
Speaker 1: all the tropes that you want, and it's like enemies
16:44
Speaker 1: to lovers. There's a fake not relationship, but like they're
16:48
Speaker 1: forced together because they have to pretend to be friends
16:51
Speaker 1: because of a cake incident. It is just really so many,
16:56
Speaker 1: so many components of it should be on paper like
16:59
Speaker 1: a bad book, and it is an incredible book all
17:02
Speaker 1: the way through. Fran What were your other favorite books
17:05
Speaker 1: of the year. I really loved Cleanness by Garth Greenwell,
17:09
Speaker 1: which is like an erotic novel that has a really
17:12
Speaker 1: gorgeous prose. I think Arth Greenwell writes like the best
17:15
Speaker 1: sex scenes on the planet. I also really loved Little
17:18
Speaker 1: Devil in America by Heneif Abdura Cybe, which is a
17:22
Speaker 1: collection of criticism on black culture in America, starting from
17:27
Speaker 1: like things like Soul Train or Michael Jackson or you know,
17:31
Speaker 1: a Wreath of Franklin to like, you know, things happening
17:34
Speaker 1: in the modern day. I just think that Hennie's writing
17:37
Speaker 1: as like a poet is a really beautiful lens on
17:41
Speaker 1: cultural criticism. Another book I've I forgot to mention that
17:45
Speaker 1: I really loved this year. I don't think that this
17:47
Speaker 1: came out this year, but it was one of my
17:48
Speaker 1: faves a Dowry of Blood by S. T. Gibson. It's
17:52
Speaker 1: about Dracula's brides and it's like super saffic and really
17:58
Speaker 1: like beautiful lyrical writing. So if you're into vampires and lesbians,
18:08
Speaker 1: which why wouldn't you be? Why wouldn't you check it out?
18:11
Speaker 1: It's a it's a nice like little novella. It's probably
18:13
Speaker 1: like two pages. The virgins listening. We want to hear
18:17
Speaker 1: what your best of was this year. You should like
18:20
Speaker 1: tweet at us are getting our Instagram stories about like
18:23
Speaker 1: what you were your faiths of the year, Like, I'm
18:26
Speaker 1: just curious to see what else is out there? Yeah,
18:29
Speaker 1: to tell us we want to know, don't don't don't
18:43
Speaker 1: do googled moon Struck to find out what year it is,
18:50
Speaker 1: and there you know the section where says people also
18:53
Speaker 1: ask the first question is why is moon Struck a
18:56
Speaker 1: good movie? Uh? So, I guess that's a that's a
18:59
Speaker 1: good way to are our discussion for an excellent primise
19:01
Speaker 1: why is moon Struck a good movie? So? The thing
19:05
Speaker 1: about Moonstruck, at least upon first watch, is that it
19:10
Speaker 1: has all of the ingredients of what you think will
19:13
Speaker 1: be a bad movie. It has a kind of bizarre premise.
19:18
Speaker 1: It has Share, who you think is not an actress
19:21
Speaker 1: if you've never watched Share before, and then you have
19:23
Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage, who's kind of like a meme in pop culture. Now, well,
19:27
Speaker 1: I don't let's not talk about why people think it's
19:29
Speaker 1: a bad movie. Why is it a good movie? Well,
19:31
Speaker 1: because it's like maybe one of the most beautiful like
19:36
Speaker 1: meditations on like love and fate and like the messiness
19:40
Speaker 1: of romance that like I've ever watched in my entire life.
19:42
Speaker 1: Why do you think it's a good movie. It's really funny.
19:46
Speaker 1: It's a really great slice of life movie, which I love.
19:52
Speaker 1: It's kind of structured like a play in a way.
19:55
Speaker 1: It's it's a very tight glimpse into a really short
20:00
Speaker 1: period of time in one family's life. Very John Patrick Chinley, right,
20:06
Speaker 1: I think Moonstruck is definitely remembered as one of the
20:10
Speaker 1: greatest films of our lifetimes. And it's a romantic comedy,
20:14
Speaker 1: which I don't think, like are not usually elevated in
20:17
Speaker 1: the kind of way that moon Struck is. Plus, you've
20:20
Speaker 1: never seen Nick Cage in like a Ram Camp. Well,
20:22
Speaker 1: actually National Treasure, you know, is kind of a rom
20:25
Speaker 1: calm it's a what is the romance between him and
20:28
Speaker 1: Treasure Hunt? No, there's a there's a woman in it.
20:31
Speaker 1: I don't know, I saw ages ago, but there's a
20:32
Speaker 1: woman in it that he like kind of falls in
20:34
Speaker 1: love with while as they're like, you know, you know,
20:36
Speaker 1: pillaging for Treasure. And I wouldn't call it a romantic comedy.
20:41
Speaker 1: I would, I would, I would. I would say National
20:43
Speaker 1: Treasure is a romantic comedy for those of you listening
20:46
Speaker 1: that maybe haven't watched yet, which is you didn't do
20:48
Speaker 1: your homework. But that's okay, that's why you're here. Um,
20:51
Speaker 1: should we like loosely go over the plot? Sure? Loretta Casserini,
20:56
Speaker 1: she is a widow. She is supposed to be, like
20:59
Speaker 1: I guess saw a homely version of share. They like,
21:02
Speaker 1: give her gray hair, they's account. She's a woman who,
21:08
Speaker 1: you know, kind of feels that life has passed her by,
21:10
Speaker 1: so she's not really taking care of herself. Yeah, exactly.
21:13
Speaker 1: She lives. She lives at home with her family in
21:16
Speaker 1: this frankly incredible house that probably costs millions and millions
21:22
Speaker 1: of dollars. I'm so glad you brought it up, because
21:24
Speaker 1: it is in fact for sale for the nominal price
21:27
Speaker 1: of twelve point three million dollars. And and if any
21:31
Speaker 1: daddy's out there listening to this podcast, want to know,
21:34
Speaker 1: these turned into like a virgin headquarters part of Brooklyn Heights.
21:39
Speaker 1: It's like an a gorgeous location. You're right on the water,
21:42
Speaker 1: like it's just it would be so beautiful. Also a
21:45
Speaker 1: very important part of the movie is that Share is
21:48
Speaker 1: Italian and her family is Italian. I would say that
21:51
Speaker 1: is maybe the most important thematic thing about the movie.
21:54
Speaker 1: I would disagree by I get what. I would get
21:57
Speaker 1: what you're saying. It is about and it is about
21:59
Speaker 1: and its Hallians family. Yes, this is about you know,
22:02
Speaker 1: Italian culture. So Share is a widow. She is in
22:06
Speaker 1: a relationship with Johnny Ary who proposes to her. But
22:13
Speaker 1: I'm the worst way, yeah, and the horrible um rotted
22:17
Speaker 1: and definitely not how I want to be proposed to,
22:19
Speaker 1: even though I don't want to be proposed to. You
22:20
Speaker 1: can watch the movie, but like it's painting this picture
22:24
Speaker 1: of a woman who has basically conceded to life. Her
22:27
Speaker 1: previous husband got hit by a bus, she doesn't really
22:30
Speaker 1: kind of believe in love anymore. She's in her thirties,
22:33
Speaker 1: which like in this era, like in the eighties, it's like,
22:36
Speaker 1: you know, you might as well be dead if you're
22:38
Speaker 1: like a woman in your thirty and you're not married.
22:40
Speaker 1: Like it's it's just like there's so many different I mean,
22:43
Speaker 1: that's also like an Italian American thing. Like she's like
22:46
Speaker 1: a failed woman, and so she's found the nearest possible guy,
22:50
Speaker 1: this guy Johnny Camerary, who is like a shlub and terrible. Yes,
22:54
Speaker 1: but he is a family man, and so he proposes
22:57
Speaker 1: to her and then has to go to Italy because
22:59
Speaker 1: his mother is dying, and he says, I can't, like
23:01
Speaker 1: I need my mother needs to be a part of
23:03
Speaker 1: this this well, he says, I can't get married until
23:06
Speaker 1: like until my mother is okay, until she dies. Um.
23:11
Speaker 1: But before he leaves to Italy, he tells Loretta that
23:15
Speaker 1: he needs to reconcile with his brother played by Nicholas
23:19
Speaker 1: Cage Ronnie so hot Um before they get married. So
23:25
Speaker 1: Loretta has to go and you know, try to help
23:30
Speaker 1: mend this rift between the brothers, someone she's never met,
23:34
Speaker 1: never met, and spoiler alert, she and Ronnie fall in love.
23:38
Speaker 1: They don't just fall in love, they fuck. They have
23:42
Speaker 1: like great tack they have. It's well, we will get
23:44
Speaker 1: into it. But also while all this is going on,
23:47
Speaker 1: we also see Loretta's family life and her mother played
23:51
Speaker 1: by olymp You Ducaccus, is feeling you know, slighted by
23:55
Speaker 1: her father, which she should because her father is having
23:57
Speaker 1: an affair of course. Um it feels like a lot
24:00
Speaker 1: of there's a lot of themes of like infidelity, loving
24:03
Speaker 1: the wrong people, stuff like that. Yes, and then there's
24:06
Speaker 1: also a moon, right, the moon of the primary characters,
24:10
Speaker 1: one of the yes as played by the Moon as
24:14
Speaker 1: played by um Ariana Grande. No as played by the Moon.
24:17
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the Moon appearing as herself. I just always imagine,
24:21
Speaker 1: you know how are like loves the moon. She's a cancer, Yes,
24:24
Speaker 1: she's a cancer, and she just you know, the moon
24:27
Speaker 1: is like a part of her set or everything. I
24:28
Speaker 1: can just see her like little face popping out of
24:30
Speaker 1: the moon when like they go, oh look it's Cosmos
24:33
Speaker 1: Cosmos moon, and then you just see Ari and she's
24:35
Speaker 1: like Unfortunately. I do think that in twenty years someone
24:42
Speaker 1: will try to remake Moonstruck, and like probably will cast
24:45
Speaker 1: Ariana Grande No. It's gonna be like Beanie Feldstiner something
24:49
Speaker 1: like that. But Arianna's Italian, I know, but ari cannot
24:52
Speaker 1: pull well. I'm not saying she can do it. I'm
24:56
Speaker 1: saying they will probably try to make her do it,
24:58
Speaker 1: and no one could possibly ladder up to what Share gives. However,
25:03
Speaker 1: I can give camp I think that she would be fine.
25:07
Speaker 1: She would have. We have we given a good enough
25:09
Speaker 1: explanation of the plot of moonstruct the setup, which I
25:13
Speaker 1: think is all shots needed because we can, you know,
25:15
Speaker 1: meander through these other parts. It must be said that, um,
25:19
Speaker 1: when Johnny, not Ronnie, not Nicolas Cage, but Nicolas Cage's
25:22
Speaker 1: brother is taking off on the airport, there's an old
25:26
Speaker 1: woman as played by Rose Damn you. Um it is
25:30
Speaker 1: literally literally you and there's a old woman. She's like
25:32
Speaker 1: looking at the plane as it's leaving. This is back
25:34
Speaker 1: in the day pre ninal event, when you could like
25:37
Speaker 1: go and like watch people like take flight, you know,
25:39
Speaker 1: watch their flights take off or whatever. Watch them to
25:41
Speaker 1: five gravity, watch them to via gravity. Yeah, there's an
25:44
Speaker 1: old woman that's like, I put a coach on that
25:46
Speaker 1: plane on my sister who cheated on me, and she
25:49
Speaker 1: her sister and cheat on her sister married the man
25:53
Speaker 1: that she had wanted to marry exactly. It's not important.
25:55
Speaker 1: It's like a kind of like throw away no, but
25:57
Speaker 1: it's a great like the movie is filled with these
26:00
Speaker 1: small moments that just stick with you like that they're
26:03
Speaker 1: so specific yes and unexpected, and this movie has one
26:08
Speaker 1: of the best glow ups of all time. Share, who
26:12
Speaker 1: starts the movie looking kind of dowdy, which like for
26:16
Speaker 1: any other woman, would be the most glamorous they ever looked,
26:18
Speaker 1: and she still looks amazing. Yeah um she So Share
26:24
Speaker 1: hooks up with Ronnie and they go to the opera
26:28
Speaker 1: together and before that she gets a makeover. Well there's
26:30
Speaker 1: some steaks in that too. Basically, Ronnie says, She says,
26:34
Speaker 1: this is a cheating We're cheating right now. This will
26:38
Speaker 1: never work. We can never speak to each other again.
26:40
Speaker 1: And Ronnie says, okay, fine, We're never going to speak
26:43
Speaker 1: to each other again one basically like one more time
26:46
Speaker 1: with feeling like let's do one last cheaty thing and
26:49
Speaker 1: let me take you to the opera. It's like this
26:52
Speaker 1: kind of like there's this emotional steak to it where
26:56
Speaker 1: Ronnie's like, I'm never going to be happy without you
26:59
Speaker 1: in my life and I can't have you, but can
27:02
Speaker 1: I have you just for this one night? And so
27:05
Speaker 1: Share gives us what is the makeover montage of all
27:08
Speaker 1: makeover montages? I mean not of all, but like it's
27:11
Speaker 1: a really good makeover. It's not even really like that
27:14
Speaker 1: much of a montage. Like you do see her, you know,
27:17
Speaker 1: in the chair getting her hair done, her makeup done,
27:20
Speaker 1: but it's about the moment when she emerges and is Share.
27:26
Speaker 1: She's Share, she is and sheher says in interviews that
27:30
Speaker 1: she preferred playing like the dowdier version of Loretta. Like
27:33
Speaker 1: she she you know, after the glow up. She you know,
27:36
Speaker 1: was having a harder time. She really can inhabit a
27:39
Speaker 1: character like That's something that is really beautiful about her
27:42
Speaker 1: portrayal of Loretta is even though she has her sherry
27:45
Speaker 1: kind of snap out of it like things in it,
27:47
Speaker 1: Like it still is not her distinctly. Yeah. I do
27:51
Speaker 1: love the scene right after she gets made over where
27:54
Speaker 1: she goes home and she's like sitting in front of
27:57
Speaker 1: the fire and getting ready. Um, that is my favorite
28:01
Speaker 1: scene too. I have to say, like it is essentially
28:06
Speaker 1: a sex scene with no one else. She comes home,
28:10
Speaker 1: she turns on the fireplace, she pours herself a glass
28:13
Speaker 1: of wine like some like you know, sexy like shod
28:16
Speaker 1: Day kind of jazz plays she and she's like, literally,
28:20
Speaker 1: it's literally us after Black Friday, like opening up her
28:24
Speaker 1: all the things she bought for herself. She's a dragon
28:27
Speaker 1: looking at all the wealth that she's hoarded, and you
28:29
Speaker 1: know not to go to earnest too quickly. But like
28:31
Speaker 1: that scene actually I think encapsulates like my favorite element
28:36
Speaker 1: of the film, which is like a story that is
28:39
Speaker 1: actually about coming into your own and falling in love
28:43
Speaker 1: with yourself again. Like the Portrait of Loretta is like
28:47
Speaker 1: this woman who has she's a wolf, as they say
28:50
Speaker 1: in the film, like she has like she's been down
28:52
Speaker 1: on her luck. She doesn't really believe in magic or
28:55
Speaker 1: love anymore. She doesn't really think that she deserves nice things.
28:58
Speaker 1: And now a decade after her lover has died, she
29:01
Speaker 1: finally has this like hot guy that's really into her,
29:04
Speaker 1: that's swept her off her feet in an unexpected way,
29:06
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh, I am actually desirable. There's this
29:09
Speaker 1: very funny scene as she just is exiting the make
29:12
Speaker 1: of her montage where a bunch of construction workers like
29:14
Speaker 1: kind of cat call her and she goes like who me,
29:18
Speaker 1: Like like, are you sure? Like it's kind of this like, oh,
29:21
Speaker 1: I forgot what it feels like to be attractive. So
29:24
Speaker 1: when she sits down with her like you know, Chanel
29:27
Speaker 1: shoes or whatever the her Revlon like it's so beautiful. Yeah,
29:31
Speaker 1: I really want to have that kind of share a
29:34
Speaker 1: moment like not even like a makeover or like buying
29:39
Speaker 1: something that makes me feel better about myself, but like
29:41
Speaker 1: that moment where you realize that you are a like
29:45
Speaker 1: embodied sexual being. I really want that for myself this
29:51
Speaker 1: um like holiday season, that's what that's the energy I'm
29:53
Speaker 1: bringing into Yes, that is that is And there's even
29:58
Speaker 1: after like when you know, she turns on the fireplace
30:00
Speaker 1: and she pours herself a glass of point, she goes
30:03
Speaker 1: over to the mirror and she looks at herself like
30:07
Speaker 1: like it's like sex. It did kind of remind me
30:10
Speaker 1: of the scene in the House of Gucci as Mauriceo
30:12
Speaker 1: Gucci is getting killed when Gaga's in the bath, and
30:15
Speaker 1: it kind of reads as if she's like masturbating to
30:20
Speaker 1: the thought of her estranged husband being murdered. There are
30:24
Speaker 1: actually a lot of side by sides between like House
30:28
Speaker 1: of Gucci and Moonstruck. Did you notice, I mean you
30:30
Speaker 1: you're kind of alluding to these, like, yeah, well, I
30:32
Speaker 1: do think like Gaga and Share doing similar things in
30:37
Speaker 1: these roles, or like I do think the House of
30:40
Speaker 1: Gucci is kind of like Gaga's Moonstruck. Yeah, okay, we'll
30:44
Speaker 1: get into the movie comparisons, but on that actually, I mean,
30:48
Speaker 1: obviously I'm not saying like Gaga's copying Shure, but Gaga
30:51
Speaker 1: is in shares lineage when she goes from the pop
30:55
Speaker 1: star to award winning actress, you know, elevation like that
31:00
Speaker 1: is like absolutely you see those you know how those
31:03
Speaker 1: are blossoming together and they're both doing like Gaga is
31:06
Speaker 1: doing it I think beautifully. But like with this movie specifically,
31:10
Speaker 1: when the trailer dropped, everyone's making fun of Gaga, you
31:14
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Everyone's like, you know, dragging the accent.
31:16
Speaker 1: They're like, this is gonna be so camp. When Moonstruck,
31:19
Speaker 1: like the premier of Moonstruck was like happening, Like SHARE's
31:23
Speaker 1: name would come on the credit scene and the audience
31:26
Speaker 1: would laugh at her, and then who had the last laugh?
31:30
Speaker 1: She did exactly. It's this moment where you've been a caricature,
31:34
Speaker 1: because to be a pop star, to be a woman
31:36
Speaker 1: and a pop star, is to be a character. You
31:38
Speaker 1: have to constantly force this, like you know, archetype of yourself,
31:41
Speaker 1: often changing your identity over and over again just to
31:44
Speaker 1: like stay in the business. But like people you know
31:48
Speaker 1: don't want to take those archetypes seriously, like Madonna or
31:50
Speaker 1: Share or Gaga, And so when they decigned to do
31:53
Speaker 1: something serious, all of a sudden, everyone's like, no, you
31:55
Speaker 1: can't do that. Yeah, well okay, so you, of the
31:58
Speaker 1: two of us, you are the share her Storian. I
32:01
Speaker 1: love Share, but you love Share on a on a
32:03
Speaker 1: level that I cannot even like think of as sending to.
32:07
Speaker 1: So where where was Share in her life and her
32:12
Speaker 1: career when Moonstruck came along? Okay, so basically it had
32:17
Speaker 1: been Oh, I guess her and Sunny broke up seventy nine,
32:21
Speaker 1: I think, and this movie took place in eight seven,
32:25
Speaker 1: um between seventy nine and early eighties. She re emerged
32:30
Speaker 1: as a solo pop star pretty quickly. Um or actually
32:34
Speaker 1: not quickly. She had a few flops and then everyone
32:36
Speaker 1: was like, oh, no, Share is just share. We forgot
32:39
Speaker 1: about Sonny. Sonny dies. I think a year or two
32:43
Speaker 1: before Moonstruck comes out, and it actually should be said,
32:47
Speaker 1: I was reading recently that this movie was very hot
32:52
Speaker 1: off the tails of shares appearance on The Letterman Show,
32:56
Speaker 1: the very iconic one that has like I think, recirculated
32:59
Speaker 1: a lot on share Twitter, which I am on, wherein
33:02
Speaker 1: she calls Letterman an asshole because he's being a fucking
33:06
Speaker 1: asshole and doing what Letterman always does, which is ask
33:08
Speaker 1: women about people they've slept with or plastic surgery or
33:11
Speaker 1: like whatever. You know. It was kind of a viral
33:14
Speaker 1: moment proceeding viral media, and so this version of share
33:18
Speaker 1: where she's kind of like, never gonna let men do
33:22
Speaker 1: that to her in a public place. I hesitant, hesitate
33:26
Speaker 1: to say like feminist, but like that kind of component
33:28
Speaker 1: of like I'm not going to let you say that
33:30
Speaker 1: to me. Kind of share, this share that you know,
33:33
Speaker 1: we'll never let you live it down is coming out
33:36
Speaker 1: right at this time. Everyone's seeing this side of So
33:38
Speaker 1: is this does this predate the mom I am a
33:41
Speaker 1: rich Man moment? It does predate the mom I am
33:44
Speaker 1: a rich So this is really like the genesis of
33:47
Speaker 1: share kind of becoming the share we know today. She
33:50
Speaker 1: did already have anom for silk Wood, where she played
33:54
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep's lesbian roommate. I have never seen Silkwood. I
33:58
Speaker 1: will have to really need it on it um. Then
34:01
Speaker 1: she had been in a few other flop movies silk
34:04
Speaker 1: What she got an arm And this was the year
34:05
Speaker 1: it was, which is of Eastwick? It was also eight seven?
34:08
Speaker 1: Oh wow, so which is it? Eastwick and Moonstrauck came
34:11
Speaker 1: out in the same year. Yeah, I guess probably the
34:14
Speaker 1: two film roles that Share is best known for. And
34:16
Speaker 1: so with this movie specifically, they really didn't think it
34:21
Speaker 1: was going to transcend, Like they only spent fifteen mill
34:23
Speaker 1: on it. Olympia Ducoccus said in interviews later, she was like,
34:27
Speaker 1: this movie is going to be a flop. She thought
34:29
Speaker 1: this movie was going to be a flop, and she
34:30
Speaker 1: talked about it with actors on set. Um And the
34:33
Speaker 1: movie was one of the highest grossing films of the year,
34:36
Speaker 1: and Share won an Oscar for it, and it didn't
34:39
Speaker 1: win Best Picture. It won Best Screenplay. Okay, I don't
34:42
Speaker 1: think it was nominated for Best Picture, which, like it
34:45
Speaker 1: makes sense because I think the writing is part of
34:48
Speaker 1: what mad like. Obviously, the performances are what we remember,
34:52
Speaker 1: but the writing and the story, Like when I say
34:54
Speaker 1: that it has the same kind of structure as a play,
34:57
Speaker 1: I do think like it comes down to like the
35:00
Speaker 1: language and the way the story is told, and how
35:03
Speaker 1: One thing that really struck me when I saw it
35:05
Speaker 1: is how these really dramatic things are happening, but people
35:11
Speaker 1: are not reacting to them in melodramatic ways. Like it
35:15
Speaker 1: really it feels so lived in and so real. Um
35:20
Speaker 1: Like at the end when um Olympiodococcus says to Share,
35:24
Speaker 1: like do you love him, Loretta, and she says I do,
35:26
Speaker 1: and she says like what did she feel? Like, it's like,
35:29
Speaker 1: oh that's too bad. Yeah, you know, like it's so
35:32
Speaker 1: it's so grounded in this family feels real. It also
35:52
Speaker 1: has to be said that another thing that you and
35:55
Speaker 1: I respond to in the in the in the vein
35:57
Speaker 1: of what you're talking about is the wolf feness of
36:01
Speaker 1: all of the characters, Like there's this inside you. There
36:04
Speaker 1: are two wolves. One of them is Share and the
36:07
Speaker 1: other one is also Share. Yeah. Yeah, Well the film
36:11
Speaker 1: used to be called it was called The Bride and
36:13
Speaker 1: the Wolf or whatever, before it was called Moonstruck, And
36:16
Speaker 1: it comes from this conversation in the sex scene that
36:18
Speaker 1: Rose was talking about earlier, where they say you're a wolf,
36:21
Speaker 1: and um, there's this iconic line where she says, not Loretta,
36:25
Speaker 1: but Loretta's I guess. Aunt says I've seen a wolf
36:28
Speaker 1: and every man I ever met, and I say, a
36:31
Speaker 1: wolf in me you, and like the motif of the
36:34
Speaker 1: wolf is used as this downtrodden person, like someone who
36:38
Speaker 1: has been so kind of like hardened by life that
36:42
Speaker 1: they have these underwhelmed like this kind of like monotony
36:48
Speaker 1: reaction to anything that happens, even if it is like
36:51
Speaker 1: mystical and magical and and love like because I don't know,
36:54
Speaker 1: I would warrant to say that you and I are
36:55
Speaker 1: kind of jaded by life a little bit, like I
36:58
Speaker 1: think that you and I are, you know, always like
37:01
Speaker 1: in a very stupid way, being like love doesn't exist
37:05
Speaker 1: like man suck blah blah blah, but like it comes
37:08
Speaker 1: it comes from a place, a specific place of like
37:12
Speaker 1: how you or I grew up. And I guess in
37:14
Speaker 1: this moment, like how Shares character came to Fruition. Before
37:17
Speaker 1: we met the character herself, I did um as someone
37:22
Speaker 1: who had heard about this movie and seen the way
37:25
Speaker 1: that it permeated pop culture for so long, but never
37:28
Speaker 1: actually sat down and watched it. When I did watch it,
37:31
Speaker 1: it felt like it slotted itself into like my identity
37:37
Speaker 1: so quickly. So the first time you ever watched the movie,
37:42
Speaker 1: what what was the thing that you kind of immediately
37:45
Speaker 1: latched onto, Like what component of it where you were like,
37:47
Speaker 1: aside from obviously share which takes up a lot of space,
37:50
Speaker 1: and like the reasons that someone might watch Moonstruck, Like
37:54
Speaker 1: what did you come away with that affected it, that
37:57
Speaker 1: made it? I just I don't know I can break
38:00
Speaker 1: it down to one thing. I really do think it's
38:02
Speaker 1: a perfect movie. Um, and it feels so warm. I
38:09
Speaker 1: agree it's a perfect movie. I'm obviously very prone to
38:12
Speaker 1: exaggeration and hyperbole, but I do think that it's perfect.
38:16
Speaker 1: And when I made me laugh, it made me cry.
38:19
Speaker 1: It feels like it's like that that video of Gwyneth Paltrow.
38:23
Speaker 1: I laughed, I cried, I had a shot, you know,
38:26
Speaker 1: like it is. It is the full range of human
38:30
Speaker 1: emotions in one film. Generally speaking, I I do love
38:35
Speaker 1: things that strike that balance between like absurdist and camp
38:40
Speaker 1: and like kind of even quote unquote bad when someone
38:44
Speaker 1: says is like, why is this movie good? Why this
38:46
Speaker 1: movie bad? Whatever? Um, And also happens to be like
38:49
Speaker 1: very emotionally resonant at the end, like I think that
38:52
Speaker 1: the thing that it teaches you is really beautiful. But
38:54
Speaker 1: I which we'll get into, But I have to say,
38:56
Speaker 1: when I first watched this movie, I was like a
38:58
Speaker 1: freshman in college, had no idea what to expect. Was
39:01
Speaker 1: blown away by the idea that share In Nicolas Cage
39:03
Speaker 1: are in a movie together. I think that's the most
39:05
Speaker 1: common reaction, at least now. Well, this is at such
39:09
Speaker 1: an early stage of Nicolas Cage's career, and like I guess,
39:14
Speaker 1: from what you're saying, a kind of weird midway point
39:17
Speaker 1: in shares or like a transitional point. Um. I do
39:22
Speaker 1: think this is the one time Nicolas Cage has ever
39:24
Speaker 1: been hot, absolutely, and he is very hot. He is
39:28
Speaker 1: like if he had to peek and only be hot once,
39:31
Speaker 1: this was it. Because he is so fucking sexy in
39:35
Speaker 1: a way that is like still kind of gross. Like
39:39
Speaker 1: the first scene where she goes into the basement of
39:42
Speaker 1: the bakery. You know that Chrissie gave me the big
39:44
Speaker 1: bring me the Big night, Ronnie the sexual chemistry they have.
39:52
Speaker 1: I mean, of course, like how could you not have
39:54
Speaker 1: that with share Um? But I really do think that
39:59
Speaker 1: this their their love scene is the best romantic, sexy
40:07
Speaker 1: love scene I've ever seen. And it's bizarre as well. Yeah,
40:10
Speaker 1: it's weird, it's weird her cooking him the steak, and
40:16
Speaker 1: it's just and and like the melodrama of it, the
40:20
Speaker 1: uh I don't care, take me, take me the movie
40:23
Speaker 1: likes to the thing about I guess talking about like
40:29
Speaker 1: camp in this film or like John Patrick Shanley's kind
40:32
Speaker 1: of love for exaggeration is that so many he takes
40:37
Speaker 1: all these tropes from rom coms and romances we've already
40:40
Speaker 1: seen and you kind of like inflates them a little
40:43
Speaker 1: bit and makes them like bizarre and weird. And so
40:47
Speaker 1: you know, in that sex scene, like Nick Cage like
40:49
Speaker 1: swoops her off her feet in a way that feels
40:51
Speaker 1: like almost like the scene was like overblocked, like or
40:54
Speaker 1: like they were doing it. And again it is like play.
40:58
Speaker 1: It feels like it feels like it feels like they
41:00
Speaker 1: are playing to the back of the house and in
41:03
Speaker 1: in a scene that is shot very intimately. And then
41:06
Speaker 1: it also like the script also loves like these ham
41:09
Speaker 1: fisted metaphors, like in the scene in the Bakery where
41:12
Speaker 1: like Nick Cage goes, He's like, and I big bread, bread, bread,
41:17
Speaker 1: and I still get in it out of this hot
41:18
Speaker 1: hole every day, like he says that, And like John
41:22
Speaker 1: Petrick Chanley knows what he's doing when he said, like
41:24
Speaker 1: when he when they say, like, you're a bride without
41:27
Speaker 1: a head, a wolf without a foot, and then he
41:30
Speaker 1: sweeps her off her feet for no reason, like he
41:32
Speaker 1: knows that that's weird. And I think that part of
41:35
Speaker 1: the reason that people say, wait, this is a bad
41:39
Speaker 1: movie is because they don't understand how self aware of
41:42
Speaker 1: the script actually do people say it's a bad movie, Yes, absolutely.
41:45
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people don't understand that this
41:48
Speaker 1: film is legitimately good. There's a kind of, you know,
41:51
Speaker 1: a whole caravan of people, especially like gay gays, that
41:54
Speaker 1: are like, oh my god, it's so bad it's good,
41:56
Speaker 1: which I love things that are so bad it's good.
41:58
Speaker 1: But that's not I guess I just like, how have
42:00
Speaker 1: been engaged with that part of it. I have only
42:02
Speaker 1: interacted with people who genuinely love this movie. I think
42:09
Speaker 1: the movie has like a like some beautiful like lessons
42:13
Speaker 1: and themes that kind of come from what are there
42:16
Speaker 1: the idea of being a wolf without a foot? Like
42:20
Speaker 1: the monologue comes through because Share makes some presumptions about
42:26
Speaker 1: like Nick Cage's former former romantic life, which in the
42:28
Speaker 1: movie it's like his hand got chopped off by a
42:31
Speaker 1: bread slicer and then his wife left him because he
42:34
Speaker 1: wasn't paying attention because he was distracted by his brother,
42:37
Speaker 1: which is like why there's a rift between them, right
42:41
Speaker 1: and she kind of like pull She kind of says
42:43
Speaker 1: right away, look like you're jaded by life. You've done
42:46
Speaker 1: this to yourself, Like it's not about your hand, This
42:48
Speaker 1: isn't about your hand, this is about you. And Nick
42:50
Speaker 1: Cage spins it around. He's like, you're doing the exact
42:53
Speaker 1: same thing since you your husband died a decade ago.
42:56
Speaker 1: You know, they kind of like see each other's like
43:00
Speaker 1: hurt or like they're kind of like tortured romantic past lives,
43:03
Speaker 1: and that is like what makes them decide to have sex,
43:06
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like the fact that
43:08
Speaker 1: Share couldn't Share didn't have anything in common with Johnny
43:11
Speaker 1: because her actual fiance because he's an idiot and he's
43:15
Speaker 1: lived a charmed life, but she also seems to be
43:18
Speaker 1: like a marriage of not convenience. But she's settling, yeah,
43:23
Speaker 1: you know, definitely settling. Yeah yeah, but that's I think.
43:26
Speaker 1: My favorite thing about this film is like, um, Sharon
43:31
Speaker 1: Nicolas Cage, like they get spoiler, they get together in
43:34
Speaker 1: the end and they get they said they're going to
43:36
Speaker 1: get married. Um, they're probably not a great match for marriage,
43:40
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like they may not. Actually
43:43
Speaker 1: if you think about, like if there were a sequel,
43:45
Speaker 1: like I don't think they would last as a couple.
43:47
Speaker 1: I do. Well, Okay, we should get into that. But
43:50
Speaker 1: my point is it's it actually the London. Whether the
43:53
Speaker 1: relationship works or not has nothing to do with to me,
43:57
Speaker 1: the key lesson, of the crucial lesson of the film,
44:00
Speaker 1: which is that Share is falling in love with herself
44:03
Speaker 1: and Ronnie happens to be a vehicle for that because
44:07
Speaker 1: she's finally doing something that she just wants to do
44:10
Speaker 1: instead of settling for something she has to. I also
44:13
Speaker 1: think that if we're gonna like fan fictionify Moonstruck and
44:18
Speaker 1: think about what would happen next, Like there is something
44:22
Speaker 1: about like the cycle of what happens in families, and
44:27
Speaker 1: maybe like after Moonstruck, like she and Ronnie will end
44:32
Speaker 1: up in this situation that her parents are in where
44:34
Speaker 1: her dad's cheating on her mom, and like eventually she's like,
44:37
Speaker 1: knock it off and they come back together because they
44:40
Speaker 1: do think there's a tension in Moonstruck between responsibility and
44:45
Speaker 1: passion and how those things play out in families, because
44:50
Speaker 1: you know, the father is having this affair with this woman,
44:54
Speaker 1: and you know his wife like doesn't leave him. Um,
44:58
Speaker 1: she just kind of remind him like you you know,
45:02
Speaker 1: you're my husband, like, you know, knock it off. Well,
45:05
Speaker 1: she says, well, first of all, she um Olympia Ducoccus.
45:10
Speaker 1: After we're finding out that her husband is cheating on her,
45:12
Speaker 1: goes on like a very innocent kind of dinner date
45:15
Speaker 1: with the Fraser guy or whatever. And in this conversation
45:19
Speaker 1: the dad from the dad from Fraser um And in
45:22
Speaker 1: this conversation she goes, she's thinking about her husband cheating
45:25
Speaker 1: on he and she goes, why do men chase women?
45:28
Speaker 1: And he has this like kind of long like me
45:30
Speaker 1: and you're an answer about like you know whatever, something stupid,
45:33
Speaker 1: and she goes, I think it's because they fear death
45:36
Speaker 1: and like, which is so true. It is absolutely true,
45:40
Speaker 1: you know, I think about it's so true. The thrill
45:46
Speaker 1: of the chase is it's literally a production of testosterone
45:51
Speaker 1: because before I transitioned, the way I thought about sex
45:55
Speaker 1: was just about hunting it down and finding it, and
45:59
Speaker 1: then the actual act itself was always like kind of anticlimactic,
46:05
Speaker 1: considering it's a climax every time. Um, it was really
46:08
Speaker 1: about the hunt, and like I was so much more
46:13
Speaker 1: of a predator not a predator. Um, I mean that
46:18
Speaker 1: is why when men the actual answer to why men
46:20
Speaker 1: chase women is because they're all predators. Like yeah, but
46:23
Speaker 1: it's it's true, like there is this like biological imperative
46:28
Speaker 1: in men two hunt for sex like a wolf, and
46:34
Speaker 1: I like that Share in this movie like finds that
46:40
Speaker 1: impulse within her to like be the wolf. Despite being
46:44
Speaker 1: so much about like this traditional Italian American family. It
46:48
Speaker 1: subverts this idea of fidelity and in the end, like
46:52
Speaker 1: cheaters actually do prosper you know what I mean. I
46:55
Speaker 1: love about it and it's really like, um, that's like
47:00
Speaker 1: you know, like the film ends with the man who
47:05
Speaker 1: Share has cheated on being welcomed into the family. Because
47:09
Speaker 1: she is now in love with his brother. And the
47:11
Speaker 1: end the movie is like as one big, happy, dysfunctional family,
47:16
Speaker 1: and that feels really realistic. You know, families are complicated
47:21
Speaker 1: and fucked up and people make bad decisions and life
47:24
Speaker 1: goes on, which brings me to my favorite moment in
47:28
Speaker 1: the entire film and the scene that I do have
47:31
Speaker 1: tattooed on my leg, which is when Share and Nicolas
47:35
Speaker 1: Cage have this. Basically, they've gone to the opera together.
47:38
Speaker 1: Share is very moved by the opera. She catches her
47:41
Speaker 1: dad cheating with this woman that kind of puts her
47:44
Speaker 1: on a mental spin about her own infidelity and what
47:47
Speaker 1: she's doing with Nicolas Cage, and so they have this
47:50
Speaker 1: argument about love and why and Share is kind of
47:54
Speaker 1: being like, we shouldn't be doing this, and Nicholas Cage
47:57
Speaker 1: says love isn't perfect like stars are perfect, snowflakes are perfect,
48:02
Speaker 1: Like love is not supposed to be this like perfect
48:07
Speaker 1: picture that you see at the end of a rom com.
48:09
Speaker 1: It's supposed to be messy and we're supposed to love
48:12
Speaker 1: the wrong people. And that's why I love this movie,
48:16
Speaker 1: is like there is something to take away from the
48:19
Speaker 1: ways and the kind of molds that we fit our
48:22
Speaker 1: own stories into because that's what you're supposed to do.
48:26
Speaker 1: You're not supposed to cheat on your partner. But they
48:29
Speaker 1: are actually so many reasons, like for specific people's specific
48:34
Speaker 1: lives why actually would be very legitimately rational to like
48:37
Speaker 1: cheat on your partner or to fall in love with
48:39
Speaker 1: someone new. That is, that could be the actual better
48:43
Speaker 1: route for you. You could have a better partner by cheating,
48:46
Speaker 1: And that doesn't make it right, but that does make
48:49
Speaker 1: it an essential part of your destiny, which I think
48:52
Speaker 1: is like the motif of the moon is like the
48:55
Speaker 1: moon is about mysticism and serendipity and things just kind
48:59
Speaker 1: of happening and being beautiful. Have you ever been cheated
49:27
Speaker 1: on or been a cheater? I've never been cheated on. However,
49:31
Speaker 1: I have been the other woman seven times. That's a
49:36
Speaker 1: lot of times. But I you know, that's it wasn't
49:40
Speaker 1: I mean, I would say a lot of it was
49:42
Speaker 1: when I was in college, and some of it was
49:45
Speaker 1: with the same They were at least two of these
49:47
Speaker 1: people where they cheated on multiple boyfriends with me, which
49:53
Speaker 1: is I mean, I'm not like proud as I but
49:55
Speaker 1: at the time I was like very like that's on them,
49:57
Speaker 1: like this is about them, this is about you. Absolutely
49:59
Speaker 1: are have also been the other woman, yeah, to to
50:07
Speaker 1: married men. I've been the other woman to one married
50:11
Speaker 1: man in situations where both like I knew what was
50:15
Speaker 1: going on or like phone out after the fact, or
50:18
Speaker 1: like it was just kind of implied and it's it's
50:25
Speaker 1: really complicated, and you know you you I have certainly
50:29
Speaker 1: never asked about it. Yeah, I don't either. You kind
50:32
Speaker 1: of avoid it to like because you don't. You don't
50:34
Speaker 1: you don't know what people's situations are. Although I certainly
50:38
Speaker 1: think I don't think in any of the scenarios I've
50:41
Speaker 1: been in, like these people were in an open relationship.
50:44
Speaker 1: I think as as you know, queer people in one,
50:48
Speaker 1: hopefully we're not getting into situations where anyone's cheating because
50:53
Speaker 1: we are, you know, in open relationships or have partners
50:58
Speaker 1: who are like polyamorous or you know, whatever the situation is.
51:01
Speaker 1: But even in open relationships, like there can still be
51:07
Speaker 1: in fidelity. And I think really what it comes down
51:10
Speaker 1: to is is lying to your partner. It is and
51:14
Speaker 1: that is like the crucial it's kind of a loophole
51:17
Speaker 1: in the film is that like sure doesn't necessarily lie
51:22
Speaker 1: to Johnny to get to where she is. She's just
51:24
Speaker 1: kind of like circumnavigated, I guess the truth to get
51:28
Speaker 1: to that moment, the full circle of that old woman
51:31
Speaker 1: as played by you Rose Doamu casting the curse on
51:34
Speaker 1: the plane that Johnny is on. She basically like says,
51:37
Speaker 1: I put across on that plane, it's going to crash
51:39
Speaker 1: and burn or whatever, and shares like I don't believe
51:41
Speaker 1: in curses. Um, the fact that she cursed the plane,
51:45
Speaker 1: that the curse came true, Johnny's wife basically cheated on
51:48
Speaker 1: him and left him. It's like the curse kind of manifested,
51:51
Speaker 1: and what is the perfect ending? So full circle is
51:54
Speaker 1: so full circle? Well, I've never been in a monogamous
51:58
Speaker 1: relationship before, so I've never been a cheater. I've had
52:04
Speaker 1: partners who I've been dishonest too, and I think that
52:07
Speaker 1: can be as devastating in relationships as infidelity, if not worse. Honestly,
52:14
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of like especially in like
52:16
Speaker 1: sis hetero relationships, like infidelity is like this like a okay,
52:21
Speaker 1: it's over, like fuck you, Like that's a final straw,
52:24
Speaker 1: Like there's no way you can stay together after the
52:26
Speaker 1: cheating happens, and like that's just, like, to me, such
52:29
Speaker 1: a limiting way to think about your relationship. It's also
52:33
Speaker 1: not realistic. I think, like I would imagine that most
52:38
Speaker 1: monogamous couples have there has been some kind of infidelity
52:45
Speaker 1: and whether they've talked about it or not, like they've
52:48
Speaker 1: moved past it. I think probably the best example is
52:51
Speaker 1: the Sex and City movie when Steve cheats on Miranda
52:54
Speaker 1: and like it almost ends their marriage, but they you know,
52:58
Speaker 1: decide mutually to move past it stay together. Wow, Esther
53:04
Speaker 1: Perel found dead. Um, I feel like Esther Perel, I
53:08
Speaker 1: don't know how that is. Oh my god. The producer
53:11
Speaker 1: Phoebe is freaking out as much as I am. Okay,
53:12
Speaker 1: So Esther Perel is this relationships expert. She's Jewish and
53:16
Speaker 1: she's like literally a genius, and she has a lot
53:19
Speaker 1: of like teachings about like romance, especially like monogamous relationship romance.
53:24
Speaker 1: But she has you know, whole book a doubt like
53:27
Speaker 1: the artifice of infidelity as we've created it in Western culture,
53:31
Speaker 1: and like how movies like rom coms have painted this
53:36
Speaker 1: picture of cheating being the thing that you will never
53:39
Speaker 1: get away with and everything else you can work through,
53:42
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, which is so absurd, and
53:45
Speaker 1: so that's again another beautiful thing about this movie is
53:48
Speaker 1: like just painting a picture wherein infidelity actually is the
53:53
Speaker 1: best fate for these protagonists, you know what I mean.
53:57
Speaker 1: Do you ever see yourself wanting to be in a
54:00
Speaker 1: monogamous relationship, a Monoga Mish relationship, Yes, for sure. I
54:06
Speaker 1: think honestly, if we were painting the fan fick of
54:08
Speaker 1: share in Knick Cage, they probably are gonna. If they
54:11
Speaker 1: were to work, it would have to be like Monoga
54:13
Speaker 1: Mish or like an open relationship or something. For me personally,
54:18
Speaker 1: I feel like I believe in love cycles, you know
54:20
Speaker 1: what I mean. I think I go through like moments
54:24
Speaker 1: with people or in it's like really deep, really passionate,
54:27
Speaker 1: really intimate and can be for a long long time,
54:30
Speaker 1: but that those cycles have endings. And if that includes
54:34
Speaker 1: like me being with a long term partner and then
54:36
Speaker 1: maybe falling for a short term partner or something like that,
54:39
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I think that's much more realistic
54:41
Speaker 1: than an idea of monogamy. What about you, I would
54:45
Speaker 1: like to say that I don't think I'll ever want
54:48
Speaker 1: to be in a monogamous relationship because it hasn't happened.
54:52
Speaker 1: But I also know myself well enough to know that
54:54
Speaker 1: I am secretly a romantic, and I if I was
55:02
Speaker 1: in love with someone deeply enough that I wanted to
55:06
Speaker 1: commit myself to them, I don't know if I could,
55:10
Speaker 1: like be in an open relationship. Yeah, you don't think,
55:15
Speaker 1: I don't know. I really don't know. But for as
55:20
Speaker 1: as jaded and cynical as I am and always have been,
55:24
Speaker 1: especially in a way that's been applied to my relationships,
55:28
Speaker 1: I really am a romantic and like believe in I
55:34
Speaker 1: don't know true love. I don't know if I believe
55:38
Speaker 1: in it for myself. We'll see, we'll see if it happens,
55:42
Speaker 1: um But you know, like if who who knows? Like
55:48
Speaker 1: if I will fall in love with someone in a
55:50
Speaker 1: way so deeply where I can't imagine wanting to be
55:52
Speaker 1: with someone else, and where I would be devastated if
55:57
Speaker 1: they wanted someone else. I know that it's not fair
56:00
Speaker 1: or realistic to expect that, you know, one person will
56:04
Speaker 1: only want to be intimate with one person for the
56:09
Speaker 1: rest of their lives. But I don't know. I do
56:14
Speaker 1: feel like there's part of me that like wouldn't be
56:16
Speaker 1: okay with it. You know. It's so funny though, is
56:19
Speaker 1: that like the premise of that question that we hear
56:23
Speaker 1: a lot of, like do you believe in love? Do
56:25
Speaker 1: you believe in that kind of romance? Is really predicated
56:29
Speaker 1: on this picture of this mainstream depiction of love that
56:33
Speaker 1: we see in movies and books and whatever since the
56:36
Speaker 1: dawn of time. It's like we have when we are
56:39
Speaker 1: asked do you believe in love? They're actually asking do
56:42
Speaker 1: you believe in this fairy tale kind of Oh? Absolutely?
56:46
Speaker 1: I know that my romanticism comes from the media I
56:50
Speaker 1: consumed at a formative age, which is why this like
56:54
Speaker 1: moon Strike is amazing. But like that's like our answers
56:56
Speaker 1: should be like I don't believe in that version of love,
56:59
Speaker 1: but like there's a version of perfect romance that maybe
57:02
Speaker 1: doesn't check all the boxes that you think it needs
57:05
Speaker 1: to check, that is still true love. Yes, absolutely. That's
57:10
Speaker 1: one of the beautiful things about Moonstruck is it provides
57:15
Speaker 1: a lens to like look at your life and your
57:19
Speaker 1: relationships in like there is something for everyone in it.
57:24
Speaker 1: It does the best thing art can do, which is
57:26
Speaker 1: like tell a really specific story that also is extremely universal,
57:32
Speaker 1: and it breaks down this like the dichotomy of the
57:37
Speaker 1: bride and the wolf, the person who believes in love,
57:40
Speaker 1: believes in the fantasy, and the person who's like jaded
57:43
Speaker 1: by life and won't you know, accept it in It's like,
57:45
Speaker 1: it's basically saying that there is like a medium between
57:48
Speaker 1: these two things that can make you a perfectly well
57:52
Speaker 1: rounded person. Honestly, this is like you and me. It's
57:54
Speaker 1: like you're the wolf, I guess, and I'm the am
57:57
Speaker 1: I the bride. Yeah, you're You're the bride and also believe,
58:00
Speaker 1: but also like I'm secretly the bride. Yeah, you are,
58:03
Speaker 1: and I'm secretly the wolf. Yeah, inside you there are
58:06
Speaker 1: two wolves. One is one is Yes. Well, this is
58:18
Speaker 1: our last episode of the year. I know we started
58:21
Speaker 1: this kind of towards the end of the year, but
58:23
Speaker 1: you us and the listeners are we're new friends. Yes,
58:26
Speaker 1: And even though we've only done a few months of episodes.
58:29
Speaker 1: Fran and I started working on this podcast almost a
58:32
Speaker 1: year ago at this point, basically in the new year. Yeah,
58:36
Speaker 1: and it has been really beautiful to see y'all listen
58:42
Speaker 1: to it and respond to it and engage with it,
58:45
Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful for everyone who listens to this podcast.
58:49
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to our producer Phoebe, everyone at I hear,
58:55
Speaker 1: our team and I heart who are so amazing. And
58:57
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to Fran my co host, the Sister
59:01
Speaker 1: a rare on the record moment of genuine affection. It
59:06
Speaker 1: won't last. I'm grateful for you too, Rose, And I'm
59:08
Speaker 1: thankful for all the Virgins. We love you, virgin, Grateful
59:11
Speaker 1: for what you're introducing to me next week. Oh yeah,
59:14
Speaker 1: So next up on our first episode of two, we
59:19
Speaker 1: will be talking about Twilight, which, to be totally honest,
59:24
Speaker 1: is maybe the purest like um kind of can see
59:28
Speaker 1: of this podcast in general. It's like something Rose genuinely
59:31
Speaker 1: showed me for the first time. Yes, and we will
59:33
Speaker 1: be discussing it with the like number one Twilight stand
59:38
Speaker 1: I know other than myself. Peyton dix Um leave us
59:42
Speaker 1: a review, please if you love us also tweeted us,
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59:48
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59:50
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59:52
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Speaker 1: Until next year in two virgins, We love you so much. Bye,