Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Episode 728: A Ruthless Commitment To Healing with Dr. Mark M. McNear

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Episode 728: A Ruthless Commitment To Healing with Dr. Mark M. McNear · The Trauma Therapist

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  Or welcome back to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gaming Person.
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  My mission is to help trauma therapist be their incredible cells, to be human,
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  to be real, not just a clinician. I'm a big believer in
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  who we are is more important than what we know, and this requires cultivating
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  authenticity, genuineness, and vulnerability, and that requires intention. Can learn more
• 0:33
  about my courses and workshops by going to the Trauma Therapist project dot com.
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  That's the Trauma Therapist Project dot com. Let's get started. So five four
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  three two and one, our folks, welcome back to the podcast. I
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  am very excited to have as my guest today doctor Mark McNear mark. Welcome
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  to the podcast. Thanks guys, a pleasure to be here. Awesome.
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  So Mark is a licensed clinical social worker Wintay, a private practice in New
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  Jersey with over thirty years of experience in clinical practice. Doctor mcneir now focuses
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  on helping those who've had trauma, abuse and addictions in their lives, sharing
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  the hope of healing that he has realized in his own life. You graduated
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  from Northeastern Bible College, New York University, an Oxford graduate school. In
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  addition to his private practice, Doctor mcneir has been a speaker for general audiences
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  nationwide. It's also been a frequent guest on nationally siticated radio broadcast and podcast
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  for magazines and co hosted panelists and videos dealing with Christianity and mental health.
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  His new book Finding My Words or Ruthless Commitment to Healing Gently after Trauma is
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  available on Amazon. Mark welcome, Thank you guys. So before we get
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  going, Mark, please share with our listeners where you're from originally and where
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  you are. I'm from New Jersey. I'm from y Yeah, I haven't
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  moved. Awesome. Awesome. I'm from the East Coast originally myself. So
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  hey, great to speak with you. All right, let's dive in what
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  happened. That's a good question. That's a really great question. That's how
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  is it that here we are right now talking about this? All right?
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  So March twenty fifteen, I called my psychiatrist and I asked her for refills,
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  and it became evident to her that I was abusing the medication that I
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  was addicted. So she says to me, I want you to go to
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  rehab. Not that's something that I wanted to hear at all. But that's
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  what she said. So I can remember waiting for my wife to get home,
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  Debbie, and she came home. She's a school teacher. She came
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  home from school and I said to her, you know, I just had
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  a conversation with a psychiatrist and she thinks that I need to go to rehab.
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  And Debbie said, I think that's wonderful. I think it's a really
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  good idea for you to go, because she saw that my life was going
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  downhill for it quite a while. I had stopped working, and you know,
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  I was pretty much sleeping half the day and the rest of the day,
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  you know, I was watching TV just zoning out. So that began
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  a tremendous healing journey for me. You know, it was pretty humiliating.
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  I had to call colleagues and ask them, you know, what rehabs would
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  you recommend? And they said for who? And I said for me,
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  and they said, oh, I'm wonderful. So I found a rehab that
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  was a few hours away. My wife took me there, and I can
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  remember the ride there was just really difficult to feel like my life was over.
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  You know, I had gotten really severely addicted to their scripture medications and
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  would augment me medications. Okay, so you started at the rehab here,
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  but what led to that? Okay, So let me kind of go backwards
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  a little bit. I went, I went to rehab, okay. And
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  one of the most painful things that I experienced going to rehab is when the
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  medication came out of my system. Guy, the memories of my childhood came
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  back. You know. Shortly after being a rehab I was diagnosed with complex
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  and DSDAR complex trauma memories like when I was four years old, my dad
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  force fed me carrots and I ended up vomiting, and then he picked me
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  up from the dinner table and threw me across the room into the garbage and
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  since stayed there ear piece of garbage. Oh my god. So Um,
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  Like I said, there were just so many memories that I had compartmentalized and
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  put away and used medication to cope. Um. When I was five years
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  old, my dad had burned down a garage across the street from our house.
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  He wanted to put the insurance money, and so the fire got out
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  of control and it went toward the gas pumps, the underground gas pumps,
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  and I can remember him running into the house screaming, you know, get
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  get under the beds, Get under the beds. It's going to blow It
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  didn't blow up, but that was not good for my nervousness five years old.
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  Another thing that I talked about in the book is that from the age
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  of four to about seven, I was sexually abused by my dad, and
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  I talked about it in more detail in the book. You know, the
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  recidents that just strange things that had happened. Ironically, at seven years of
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  age, it stopped, and that's because we had armed droppery in our home
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  where four men came in with guns. Two of them took my parents and
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  my aunt an uncle to the seller in the basement, and that's where there
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  was a walk with coins and money and things like that. Upstairs. My
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  siblings, my brother, my sister, and I were there and there were
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  two guys watching over us. We didn't wake up to sleep, but they
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  were there for about an hour. So after that the house really fell apart.
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  My mom became an alcoholic and my dad became very, very paranoid.
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  And I tell this strange story in the book. I told it the counselors
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  and a lot of the counselors that I had, their person I've had recommended,
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  you know, ever encouraged me to write the book Strange Stories. So
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  my dad became paranoid and he actually gave my sister and I forks and knives
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  and spoons and had us dig out a room in the basement where he could
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  hide, Yeah, where he could hide the points and money and things like
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  that. I I mean, yeah, you know, you know, I
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  I'm just thinking. The first thing that how do how does some how do
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  you survive? How do you get through this? I mean, it's you
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  know, I sat in rehab. It was it was so strange because one
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  of the things in rehab that they have you do was tell your story.
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  And guy, I couldn't tell my story. I wasn't emotionally ready to tell
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  my story. I wasn't emotionally centered enough. I was too emotionally disregulated.
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  And not only that, I didn't have the words. I didn't have the
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  words to be able to do about these symtoms. So how did you actually
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  manage that as a young kid? You know, I think that I used
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  a lot of dissociation, departmentalization, you know, to be able to cope.
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  Yeah, I had a lot of symptoms of anxiety and depression. As
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  a kid, I also had a lot of symptoms that you would you know,
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  would be synonymous with ADHD. You know, I did very poorly in
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  school, antasized a lot. I learned to fantasize and was that the kind
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  of entree way to your use of substances? You know? I started school,
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  I went to Bible College and decided that I wanted to be a therapist.
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  You know, I had had started going to a therapist while I was
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  at Bible College, and I was really really helpful, and so I decided
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  that I wanted to go into that field. And so I went to New
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  York University and started my master's degree in social work. And during that time,
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  I had such anxiety that a colleague had recommended, you know, going
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  to see somebody in the city, and they gave me medication. I was
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  diagnosed with ADHD. I was diagnosed with anxiety and panic disorder, and I
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  was diagnosed with major depression. And during any of this time, was there
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  any mention of possible trauma. No, nothing, you remember, you know,
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  it wasn't it wasn't something we talked about. You of course, you
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  know, you were diagnosed with, you know, things like I got diagnosed
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  with ADHD or anxiety or depression, and you know, I don't think I
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  would have been open to talk about a lot of the things that happened in
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  my home. I had gotten the messages that you don't talk about those things,
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  you know, so a lot of them weren't even accessible because you know,
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  I had so compartmentalized them and denied them and other parts of it,
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  you know, I wasn't willing to talk about, you know. And then
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  the book is chapters four or five at six are filled with you know,
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  I gave you just highlights, but they're filled with things that happened. At
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  what point did you become did you realize what had gone on? You mentioned
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  in rehab. Yeah, I was fifty five when I went to rehab.
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  And so I'm sitting there and as the medications are going as out of my
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  system, and as you know, I'm experiencing these things in my body and
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  flashbacks are coming. I remember I had a really astute psychologist who said to
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  me, you know, I'm so sure some of these diagnoses are accurate.
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  I think he might have been traumatized, you know, from the little things
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  that I shared with him and was at the beginning in a sense of a
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  long road of healing. Oh my god, my dad. My dad was
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  very strange. He grew up in the Depression era and had his own mental
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  health issues obviously. You know. One of the things he used to do,
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  guys, he used to fill the kitchen sink up with water and detergent
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  and then pour into it one hundred dollar bills and then ironed them after he
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  washed them and stabled them in packs of a thousand, you know, and
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  and would would put them in a suitcase, in a metal suitcase. Just
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  strange behaviors, bizarre. Yeah. Yeah, So was it at fifty five
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  years of age when you began healing. Yeah. Yeah. He had been
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  in therapy off and on, you know, but there was just so much
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  brokenness that I had, and so much you know, shame, you know,
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  talking about these things that you know, I begin to tell somebody something
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  and I'd see their face and I would be like, Okay, no more
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  that I'm not going to talk about that anymore. You know. I got
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  the message of how strange it was. Yeah, you know, So so
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  I started working a little bit and rehab in my mind just thinking about things
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  in my mind, but like I said, I didn't have the words for
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  it. And then when I got out, I started seeing a therapist individually,
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  and then I went into twelve step traditional twelve step work, which was
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  phenomenal for me. You know. I started, I went into IOPU and
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  stayed there for about a year, you know, just wanting to work on
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  myself as much as I could. I took two years off now before and
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  during this time, were you a therapist social Yeah? Okay, okay,
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  wow yeah wow? So Mark, how do things unfold such that you say,
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  okay, you know what this is, what's going on? I need
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  to work on this. How did and how did you quote unquote work on
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  processing all of that? Okay? Well it was step by step, you
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  know, like a little bit in an iop a little bit an individual.
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  Then I had stopped with one individual therapist and work worked with a therapist Harry
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  Flannagan. His name isn't and he was trauma informed and I remember him asking
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  me to type up on a word document, you know, traumas that I
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  had experienced, you know, And I did that, and you know,
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  as I did that, even more traumas came back and more memories came back,
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  and so we sat and we went through those. I did a lot
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  of brain spotting, no intermittent brainspotting between those sessions because of flashbacks and because
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  of the difficulties that you know, I rose in my body. I did
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  a lot of story work, a lot of narrative work, a lot of
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  therapy that way. I did a lot of body work or somatic work.
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  So you tried pretty much everything. Well, yeah, I read I read
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  The Body Keeps the Score, you know, and I read Gabra Matt's books,
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  and you know, just a lot of people that you've had on you
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  know, and and just kind of grabbed as much of that as I could
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  and said, Okay, you know, I just started internal family systems work,
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  and it's been really really helpful for me. You know. My wife
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  points out that it's it's had to be step by step by step, you
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  know, because stuff I'm doing now I don't think I would have been ready
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  to do. Yeah, like three years ago, I couldn't have tolerated it
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  in my body. Well, like, I commend you for for doing that.
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  I mean, what courage it takes to to to to go through that
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  journey. And I just want to say, coming on here and sharing this,
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  I really appreciate it. It's not easy. I certainly realized that you
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  mentioned ifs really helping you, what else really helped you? The brain spotting
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  really was helpful for me to be able to tolerate feelings in my body and
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  not feel like I needed to like run away from them or have so much
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  anxiety that I couldn't think about them. You know, No, brain spotting
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  is similar to MDR correct Yes, yeah, right, yes, yes,
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  So I would, you know, do the protocols of pulling out certain thoughts,
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  you know with the sexual abuse, and then I would stay focused with
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  them and relax my body through through brain spotting. And what of the different
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  therapists you've had, what stands out for you that someone or perhaps multiple people
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  did that really did help you. I think that one of the things that
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  really stands out I mentioned Harry Flanagan. He was tremendous because he just held
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  my story well and stayed with me and held it with value. Another I
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  had done some intensives with a counselor by the name of Jay Stringer, and
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  he also did tremendous story work with me or narrative therapy with me to help
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  me to understand my story better. So I think it's it's not even the
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  techniques are important, but I think it has been the connection with the therapists
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  that have held the story well and given me such value. Now when you
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  say held the story, well, what do you mean specifically? Well,
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  this is a hard story. And so I had people that were able to
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  stay focused with me and not pull back and not leave the room, so
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  to speak, emotionally, that they were able to stay there with me emotionally,
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  and so that was really important to me. And during this time you
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  mentioned married marriage. Were you were you married? Did you have kids?
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  Did you have a family? Yeah? Yeah, my wife Debbie, we
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  have a great marriage. Now, no we didn't, but we do.
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  No, my daughter Emily, I am so close to her. We have
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  worked on our relationship. She got married husband Brandon. I love him so
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  much there in Wyoming right now. That's a whole other story for another podcast.
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  But but just just to be able to come alive and to be able
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  to enjoy your family is just phenomenal. Oh man, I'm curious about how
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  this your experience here, your journey of healing, has impacted your work Yeah,
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  Well, when when I trained at NYU, there was a lot of
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  emphasis on cognitive you know, UM work, and and nothing was talked about
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  with the body at that time, you know. So just learning to stay
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  with people, stay with their story, stay stay focused on my body,
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  but also be aware of what their body is doing and help them to maneuver
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  through that has been really really helpful. I think clinically, you know,
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  UM for me too, you know, in ifs, you know, in
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  terms, you know, to realize what my parts are doing when I'm in
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  session with somebody and realizing you know, how they might be reacting, and
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  to be able to explore that, but to be grounded in myself has been
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  really really helpful. What's been? You know, as you're talking, I
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  mean, and as you've shared, I mean, there's obviously a lot here
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  and let me just reminded what I'm speaking with Jimmy doctor Mark mcneir. The
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  book is called Finding My Words, a ruthless commitment to healing gently after trauma.
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  What's what's been? Would you say challenge challenging to you in this journey?
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  Was it looking at your story? Was it trying to shift your story?
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  Was it finding purpose? What would you say, I think there's been
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  a there's a combination of all of those. I think that's a great question.
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  I think, Um, in the beginning, I was so caught up.
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  I took two years off from work, and I was so caught up
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  in just like trying to stay in my body, you know, to stay
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  clean, to stay sober, you know, which which I was able to
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  do, you know, UM, to be able to work through my marriage.
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  First. You know, I wasn't sure that I was going to go
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  back into clinical work. No if it if I was feeling the way I
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  did when I first that I rehab, I knew that I couldn't do it,
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  and so the goal was to see if I could heal and return to
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  it. And I was able to and find purpose in that, which is
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  really important to me. I love what I do now and I'm seeing poetically,
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  you know, working with the book, working with the articles, doing
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  podcasts and doing things like that. So, you know, divers vacation is
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  really really exciting for me. When you you've talked about your story, what
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  do you see as your story right now? I think that I see somebody
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  who was severely traumatized, who had a lot of maladaptive behaviors and a lot
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  of issues with mental health. That has realized a good deal of healing and
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  it is looking forward to more healing. Just realized that healing is possible.
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  Yeah, I mean that is huge, and I think it's so important for
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  a lot of people to hear that, especially after hearing you know, the
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  as you call it, the highlights of what you shared. You it's it's
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  you almost couldn't blame anyone for thinking, how do you get through that?
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  You know, how do you how does one move through that? I think
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  that my spiritual life, you know, going through the twelve steps and having
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  a higher power God of my understanding has been you know, really crucial for
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  me, you know, realizing that I can bring kindness to myself even though
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  I didn't experience that. You know. Um, the idea of you know
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  that trauma brings about addictions, you know, to be able to cope,
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  you know, and so finding ways to be able to cope you know that
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  are adaptive. Know another word, self care, like really learning what good
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  self care looks like for me? You mentioned I have asked and you said
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  that was really helpful. What about that? Can you talk a little bit
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  you know that's that's a great question, guys. I've just started doing it
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  for about the last six months, and the thing that has been really helpful.
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  One thing, it's been very emotional and very eye opening for me to
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  see, you know, kind of like the fragmented parts or the parts that
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  the exiles that have hidden, you know, are have been pushed down one
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  of the things for me. And I don't know if this is the case
• 21:37
  for others, but I can speak for myself. I have suffered from quite
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  a few flashbacks that have been really painful, especially things with the sexual abuse,
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  you know, pertaining to that, and they had I have actually begun
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  to dissipate in my work now. I don't know if it's cumulative from all
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  of the other work that I've done in now with I have, or if
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  it's a fass or you know, it's hard to measure, but I think
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  that it has helped my body to come down even more. Talk about the
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  genesis of the book, how did you how did you get to a point
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  where you're like, Okay, I got to write this down. I want
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  to write this down. Well, what was the idea that um I was
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  in rehabit? I just didn't have the words. And so, you know,
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  as I worked with different counselors, they had challenged me too, And
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  I was like, no way, I'm not gonna I'm not going to you
• 22:30
  to write a book. Yeah. Yeah, because the story is it is
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  a unique story, you know. And so the first part of the book
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  is finding my words, and the second part of the book is speaking my
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  words, and then the third part of the book is embracing my words,
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  you know. And so I was at dinner with a couple of friends of
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  ours that she had. I said, you know, well, the couple
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  actually said to me, like, why don't you write a book? You
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  know, And it was the first time after other people had said it that
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  I was like, maybe I will. And so that's where that's where it
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  came from, and you know, and it rehab. I was like,
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  I'll never tell his story to There's no way I'm going. I'm going to
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  my grave. I'm not talking about And what did you want to do through
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  the book? What was your purpose in writing the book? To be vulnerable?
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  I wanted to be authentic. I wanted to say to people, you
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  know what, we all have difficulties, We're all broken in different ways and
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  and and to say, like, you know what, there's rationale for the
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  addiction. It makes sense, you know that behaviors just don't come out of
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  the bloom, right, you know. And that the message was for people
• 23:53
  who have had addiction or had had issues with trauma, that if I could
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  do it, families that are that are watching people that are addicted and just
• 24:06
  like what is going on? You know, hopefully they can read the book
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  and say, yeah, there's rhyme or reason to this behavior that doesn't make
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  sense. How has your sense of self shifted? You're you talked about shame.
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  How has that uh modulated? How is your sense of purpose? What's
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  that arc been like for you? Well? I think that that one of
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  the most significant things for me. It has been to be become a safe
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  husband and a safe father, and to have real connection with my wife,
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  Debbie, and and my daughter and son in law you know from there.
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  You know, I think that just having purpose of being able to say,
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  you know, um, I've gone through some of these things and I know
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  what it's like. I know how part it is, you know, to
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  other people. I think that there there's healing even in that. I would
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  I would certainly agree, and I would think that, I mean, just
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  from speaking with you in this context, that you have so much to share
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  as a therapist, as an author, your journey. I mean to talk
• 25:25
  to you and just to hear what you're saying and from what you've gone through
• 25:30
  to where you are now, how you've embodied and embrace these different modalities healing
• 25:37
  modalities is not only incredible, it's inspiring. Thank you. What do you
• 25:41
  say to people who are listening, who you come in contact with, who
• 25:47
  have maybe gone through something, What is your suggestion to them or advice to
• 25:56
  them. Maybe they're not in the healing stage, maybe they're still addicted.
• 26:02
  Okay, that's a great question. I think to realize that we're all human,
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  that we all have issues. To be able to even find one person
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  to talk to that's safe, it's crucial. You know. If if you
• 26:23
  don't want to talk at meetings, that's fine. Just go just listen.
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  That's what I did. I didn't talk, I just listen, you know,
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  just start somewhere. No, the journey's tough, takes a long time,
• 26:41
  but it's definitely worth it. And we're kind of getting down here towards
• 26:48
  the end of the time. Here but you mentioned your daughter and your relationship
• 26:52
  with her. What was that like? You mean, you said you had
• 26:56
  to kind of work through it and repair it. What was it like prior
• 26:59
  to that? You know, I think that, um, that's a hard
• 27:03
  question, but I'm gonna answer. You know, I think when she was
• 27:06
  younger, it was really good. You know. I think that we had
• 27:10
  some real good bonding, which I think is really important for our relationship.
• 27:12
  Now it went off the rails because my behavior was off, no, so
• 27:19
  it really deteriorated. And by the time I went to rehab, she had
• 27:25
  moved to Florida, you know, and she gave reasons for it, but
• 27:27
  they weren't the reasons. It's because of how my behavior was, you know,
• 27:33
  And so it was hard. You know. She she flew up from
• 27:38
  Florida and spent a day or two at rehab, and that that was like
• 27:45
  wonderful and embarrassing, you know both, you know, but I knew she
• 27:51
  cared, and she she has been, you know, number one person rooting
• 27:57
  me to go forward. We have been able to during during the pandemic.
• 28:03
  She came to live with us, and so did Brandon, and so it
• 28:07
  was just a great time for them. To see the progress that I had
• 28:10
  made and just for us to connect and do things together. Wow. So
• 28:15
  it was not good and now now it's great. But I've worked hard on
• 28:21
  it again. Mark. The book is called Finding My Words Ruthless Commitment to
• 28:27
  Healing Gently after Trauma. This is available where Amazon and everywhere. Yeah.
• 28:33
  Okay, Um, Mark, incredible, I mean you are, I mean
• 28:45
  so inspiring, My god, I mean, this is why I do this
• 28:48
  podcast seriously talk to people like you, and yeah, I mean I really
• 28:55
  want to thank you for coming on here. I'd love to have you back
• 28:57
  at a later time too. A privilege. Yeah, Um, what's the
• 29:03
  best way for people to get in contact with you? People can go on
• 29:06
  the web at www dot Mark McNear dot com. That's on my website.
• 29:11
  Okay, we'll have that there that they can reach out to you have an
• 29:14
  email, Okay, we'll have that linked up here at the show notes page
• 29:17
  at the traumais podcast dot com. Mark honor speaking with you and Guy.
• 29:22
  Appreciate that. Like I said, I'd love to have you back at a
• 29:26
  later date. Um, all right, take care Okay,