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Building a Culture of Collaboration (Leaders Need to Hear This) with Simon Mont · Profitable Christian Business

• 0:00
  Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Profitful Christian Business Podcast.
• 0:04
  I'm your host Doug Greathouse and I am so pleased to have my guest Simon Montt with me today.
• 0:11
  He doesn't just talk about building organizations, he talks about building systems that heal.
• 0:15
  He grew up learning strategy around the board game table, rules, goals, relationships, and he never stopped thinking that way.
• 0:22
  Over the last decade, he's worked as an alternative economies lawyer, a facilitator, an organizer, and a bridge builder between grassroots movements, technology,
• 0:30
  wealth and business.
• 0:32
  He sat in circles at San Quentin prison.
• 0:34
  He's organized in Oakland.
• 0:35
  He's canvassed in DC.
• 0:37
  He's taught school in South Arkansas.
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  He's been in zip ties and in hunting tree stands.
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  And today he helps leaders and organizations align values with structures so that culture isn't accidental.
• 0:47
  It's intentional.
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  If you're a Christian entrepreneur trying to build something that lasts, not just grows, the conversation will change how you think about power, profit, purpose, and
• 0:56
  collaboration.
• 0:58
  Simon, welcome to the Profitable Christian Business Podcast.
• 1:00
  Wow, thanks so much for that introduction.
• 1:03
  I feel like I need to hire you on my like my personal hype squad over here.
• 1:09
  let's do it.
• 1:09
  Let's do it.
• 1:10
  uh I'll go around with you to South Arkansas, San Quentin prison, wherever you need to be.
• 1:16
  Wherever we need to go, that would be awesome.
• 1:19
  oh Again, welcome.
• 1:23
  Before we get into the questions, I know that was a pretty good introduction, but I think that would leave a lot of people still wondering, well, who is this guy?
• 1:30
  What does he really do?
• 1:31
  So if you could just kind of sum it up in just a paragraph or so.
• 1:38
  I'm glad you gave me a paragraph, not a sentence.
• 1:40
  I people work together.
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  That's what it is.
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  You get a group of people that are gonna try to create something together.
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  Immediately you hit.
• 1:50
  a thousand questions and a thousand issues.
• 1:53
  Everything from how do we structure our roles and responsibilities in decision making to how do we relate and communicate to one another and navigate our psychologies and our
• 2:04
  spiritual journeys as we do it, how do we understand what our purpose is.
• 2:09
  All of these questions come up for us when we start working together and I basically just meet people in that question.
• 2:17
  of how are we going to work together and what are we trying to accomplish and then figure out whatever needs to get worked on to to make it happen.
• 2:25
  That is pretty awesome.
• 2:27
  And I'm gonna go ahead and get the question answered that everyone is, as they're watching this already, has in their mind.
• 2:34
  The saxophone's in the back.
• 2:35
  They wanna know, do you play the saxophone?
• 2:38
  I do not as well as I used to but still passable.
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  Still very passable.
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  We got uh some big mentors and like idols up here, Charlie Parker.
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  If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn, right?
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  If you don't embody it, you're not gonna be able to speak it.
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  It's not gonna be real.
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  And Charles Mingus.
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  up here like really wrestling with what it's like, what does it mean to be a person in the United States navigating the complexities that we have and how do you make that beautiful?
• 3:08
  Wow, I love all that.
• 3:10
  So we're going to stay on, I didn't expect to go here, but we're going to stay in this this vein a little bit because uh first of all, how long have you been playing music in it
• 3:20
  and is only jazz?
• 3:22
  I started, I picked up a saxophone when I was in fourth grade, but my dad had a piano in the house earlier, so I was kind of plucking around.
• 3:30
  And it's not only jazz.
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  I kind of grew up jazz and funk and then got a degree in performance, saxophone performance, which was a lot of jazz and then some classical.
• 3:41
  And then I was a marching band director in Arkansas.
• 3:45
  So put the kids out on the football field and had them play Elvis and Beyonce tunes.
• 3:50
  Oh, nice, nice.
• 3:53
  Really where I want to go is I'm assuming things, know, often when we meet people, we assume things are off the top of our head.
• 4:00
  And one of those things that I'm assuming because of your interest in the saxophone and that style of music and it kind of how it might even relate to what you do, there's a lot
• 4:08
  of improvisation, right?
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  In the moment type of things.
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  So can you kind of tie that together if I'm on the right track?
• 4:17
  Absolutely.
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  There's a lot of improvisation right in the name of the consulting practice I have is harmonize.
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  So the music is deeply embedded into what I do and how I think and yeah, and even the vision for the world about what does it look like to have a world that's in harmony.
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  together and in harmony with our deepest calling.
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  Right.
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  That doesn't mean that every note sounds perfect together.
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  Sometimes dissonance and crunchiness is part of the thing that propels harmony forward.
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  And sometimes you have to lean into that and embrace that.
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  And then jazz or the famous Louis Armstrong quote, are, there are no, for a real musician, there are no wrong notes because the note you play after makes the note that you just
• 5:03
  played right.
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  So even if you make that mistake and you slip, if you can catch it and then understand the arc and the real story that you're inside of, you can create meaning and propel yourself
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  forward with that.
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  How was that for an improvisational answer?
• 5:17
  that was great.
• 5:19
  I love that.
• 5:20
  Now let's kind of switch gears from music to board games, because uh based on my research and the intro, you grew up playing a lot of board games, right?
• 5:29
  So how does that shape the way you think about systems and leadership?
• 5:33
  my goodness.
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  So my brother is Asperger's and we would play and he was two years older than me.
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  So he really thrives in clear rule-based environments and really complex rule-based environments.
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  And he was really a lot better at that, smarter than me when he was older and he was more developed in that way.
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  So every day we would be learning a new board game.
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  We're not talking monopoly here.
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  We're talking like five hour long.
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  multi-dimensional models of World War II kind of board games.
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  Right?
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  And so what it made me do is, okay, I have to learn new systems, new ways of relating, new rules.
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  to learn them very fast.
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  And then I'm sitting there and I really don't want to be playing a board game.
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  I really wanted to be connecting in love with my family, but this is how we did it.
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  But I was then became really aware of how the board games and which rules shaped our interactions in which kinds of ways.
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  So really schooled me from a very young age.
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  What's the relationship between the rules and the norms in a space and the environment and emotional environment that we create.
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  And now when I go into any organization, I'm thinking kind of like board games and I'm thinking like a lawyer, which is like how...
• 6:52
  Yeah.
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  how does it shape it?
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  And is it getting us where we want to go?
• 6:55
  Nice.
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  So when did you first realize you were drawn to those?
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  Was it with the board games that you were drawn to the organizational systems?
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  No, I...
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  So really what happened was I had this impulse from a young age, I want to do justice, I want to do good in the world.
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  And then I was like, okay, let me be a teacher.
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  And I got swept up in this organization called Teach for America.
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  They sent me down to Arkansas to be a teacher.
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  And I noticed two things that were happening.
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  One was that the school system had its limits.
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  There was a limit to what I could do inside the school system.
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  then more to the point Teach for America itself had serious limits, right?
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  And I realized that in my attempt to try to do good, I was participating in something that actually was not having the impact on the education system at large that I really wanted.
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  And it was also not having the impact on me that I wanted.
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  It was really inflating my ego, my sense of like savior, Messiah complex, all this stuff.
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  I ran into this.
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  wall, like I had a really big emotional breakdown.
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  had to leave and I was like, my gosh, I still trust that impulse toward justice.
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  But that system that brought me there, that I tried to live it out through, I don't want to live inside that.
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  And that was the real observation, because then I went to law school and the same thing happened.
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  Inside of law school, same pattern.
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  And then I started getting involved in public defense work and juvenile probation reform.
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  And I really believe in those things.
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  And I could feel it's turning me into a person I don't want to be.
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  It's not compatible with my spirit in a certain way.
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  And then I've gotten to involve with movement organizing and lawyering.
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  like really grassroots groups of people trying to do good stuff.
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  and then we're all having the same puzzle.
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  How do we do this?
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  How do we change the world without replicating the things that we're trying to transcend?
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  And it's that pattern over and over and over.
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  And then I realized that if I were to devote myself to that question, everything else in my life, I could bring to bear on it.
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  I could bring my analysis, my strategy, my interpersonal, like my spirituality, all of it exists in the question of how do we be together and what are we creating?
• 9:14
  Oh, I love all that.
• 9:15
  And I want to dive just because I'm fascinated by everybody's take on this.
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  Just how you feel about the American education system as a whole.
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  Like, what do you feel like the limitations are?
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  What's good in it?
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  And what do you feel like the limitations are?
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  And how would, like, if you were set, you're handed the keys and say, you go in and change it, what would you do?
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  We often ask children, what do you want to be when you grow up?
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  Right?
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  And that is basically what role in our current existing economic structure do you feel like you would like to fill?
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  And that's your core identity.
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  Where are you going to plug it?
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  And then I think our education system is...
• 10:06
  Organized around that idea right?
• 10:08
  It's a it's organized around okay We're gonna need you to be a great worker in the industries that we have so what am I gonna need to do to get you to be that worker and I
• 10:19
  think that uh education system that Centers the question of how are you going to be on earth?
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  And how are you going to be in community is a different question right like and and and allowing us to really
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  Training us to wrestle with complexity and be in relationship with one another.
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  And I know I'm biased, but training us to collaborate.
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  If you learn if everything you do when you're a kid is a homework assignment that you as an individual go away, do a thing, come back, and you are assessed in an objective way,
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  most of the life, most life isn't that.
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  Most of the life is us figuring each other out and
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  So I think that that more collaboration focused and more purpose driven and more human I think would be how I would do it if you gave me the keys, but I'm not qualified to have
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  the keys on that one.
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  Well, it's a big thing to undertake if anyone was to do it.
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  It's been a certain way for a long time.
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  So if I bring up the term values alignment, what does it mean to you and um how do we put it in practical terms?
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  Everybody's got a...
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  a way that they long to see the world and a way that they long to be.
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  ends.
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  Most of us, humans at least, are constantly not fully embodying that.
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  I long to be compassionate and every single day I do something that is not truly compassionate.
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  I long to be environmentally conscious and every single day I'm doing something that's not environmentally conscious.
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  So there's this tension that we have of like the vision that lives in our hearts and how we actually are.
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  And then the question is, how do we start to get ourselves more in line with how we actually want to be?
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  And then the question exists on every level, Me as an individual, me in relationships, us as an organization, big systems, our ideologies, right?
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  Our relationship to the earth.
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  How do we start to get those things to our embodiment to actually be aligned with our vision and our values?
• 12:57
  I love all that.
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  And I feel like I might open up a can of worms here, but we might just go here.
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  Yeah.
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  I know a lot of people probably feel this way that the country is more divided than it has ever been.
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  And so when you talk about, yeah, that's true.
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  That's true.
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  So when we talk about alignment, it becomes a...
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  a difficult, much more difficult subject.
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  Like, because these divisions, they may exist politically, they may religiously, all those types of divisions, and then you bring those into an organizational structure, and any
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  school structure, all these type of things.
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  I don't even know where I'm going with this, but I just want to have a conversation around it, right?
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  Like, is this?
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  Where do we go from here?
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  I think that...
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  On one level, we have these really clear divided camps.
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  On another level, I think we actually have a tremendously wide consensus.
• 14:22
  Hmm.
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  If you talk to people who voted for Trump, a lot of them will talk about drain the swamp.
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  reject the globalists.
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  the elite capture of our nation.
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  They'll talk about that.
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  If you go to the other side and you talk to, you know, people in the streets that are saying down with white supremacy, you know what they're going to do?
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  They're going to talk about the 1%, the invisible, they'll say the patriarchal white supremacist power structure.
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  They'll say like class and the extract of economy.
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  They use a whole different language, but everybody is basically saying hey, you know there's like basically a ruling class that is doing things that is hurting the vast
• 15:26
  majority of the rest of us and That's the fundamental problem because I want them to stop doing that so I can figure out how to live a life That is basically good
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  And then when you ask people, what is the basically good life?
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  People basically agree with each other.
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  We're basically talking about compassion, family, community.
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  There are some things around the edges that people disagree with about kind of like how much we should be responding to climate change and if climate change is real.
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  But most of us, I think, exists inside of this awareness that...
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  There's this big, that it's not between the people who are yelling at each other aren't the ones who are actually in conflict.
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  There's people who have orchestrated us yelling at each other.
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  And then those of us who yell at each other, I mean, there's some of you do a lot in the work that we do at Harmonize is dealing with polarities, right?
• 16:23
  Which is that there's this pattern when two people have different opinions and it looks like they have to fight.
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  Usually they don't.
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  because usually each one has something the other one's missing and if they can just hold their act together, you can find it.
• 16:40
  Yeah, this is kind of where I want to bring the Christian part of the Prophet Christian Business podcast into this and losing sight of what Jesus said.
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  Love your neighbor.
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  You know, it doesn't say love your neighbor if they're a Republican or love your neighbor if they're a Democrat.
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  It just says love your neighbor.
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  Right.
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  So.
• 17:01
  Yeah, I think that's right.
• 17:04
  Right.
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  There's a difference between trying to get, two people who are disagreeing to get their STEM aligned.
• 17:10
  But what we're really talking about is what you just said.
• 17:12
  Right.
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  So you were, you were just like, there is, there is a deeper cosmic truth of how we can be and how we ought to be in the world.
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  And
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  You sometimes know exactly what that looks like.
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  Sometimes you don't.
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  Sometimes you're on it.
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  Sometimes you miss it.
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  Sometimes you use the language of Jesus and you are talking to somebody else who also speaks the language of Jesus.
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  Sometimes you say Jesus and somebody else is like, yeah, I do that, Buddhism?
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  And you're like, okay, respect.
• 17:46
  You just said love your But we're on the same thing.
• 17:49
  So how do we participate in that inquiry and bring ourselves closer?
• 17:53
  as a group in an organization.
• 17:55
  that's a fun one.
• 17:57
  Yeah.
• 17:58
  man, that's so good.
• 18:00
  So let's talk about stated values versus operationalized values.
• 18:05
  Kind of define both of those and then uh kind of what's the difference between them.
• 18:10
  The talk you talk versus the walk you walk.
• 18:12
  Ooh, great definition.
• 18:15
  the walk you walk is the operator is what you actually.
• 18:19
  We are all living, are a living embodiment of a certain value set and a certain set of compromises and trade-offs, which is usually different than the one we say we're going
• 18:31
  for.
• 18:32
  So being able to look inside your...
• 18:35
  yourself and inside your organization and saying, what am I actually embodying here?
• 18:40
  If I was an alien from another planet and I had never heard, I never read the value statement of this organization.
• 18:47
  I never talked to the person talk about their beliefs.
• 18:50
  And I just dropped in and looked at this and I had to say, what are the most important things to these people?
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  What would you say?
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  That's the operationalized value.
• 18:59
  my marketing brain fires off when you say that too, because there are so many brands, there are brands out there that you know, like just knowing, hearing their name, you know
• 19:07
  what their values are, right?
• 19:09
  Where they are, you're like, well, I wonder what they're all about, right?
• 19:13
  ah And I think that's uh the walking the walk, right?
• 19:17
  So that's so good.
• 19:20
  So let's talk a little bit more about the actual problem you solve.
• 19:24
  So oh where do you see most organizations drifting out of the alignment?
• 19:33
  by not being truly aware of and honest about what they are actually responding to on a daily basis.
• 19:45
  uh So you're making your business decisions as an individual.
• 19:52
  If you're a solo person, you got a lot of stuff going on.
• 19:57
  You're like, I'm trying to make money.
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  I'm trying to feel important.
• 20:02
  I'm trying to feed my family.
• 20:04
  Maybe I'm trying to, maybe I'm still subconsciously trying to prove to that girl that dumped me when I was eight, 18, that I'm the coolest person in school.
• 20:13
  Right?
• 20:14
  Like all these things that are occurring.
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  And then there's also an impulse.
• 20:18
  It's like, I want to be of service to the world.
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  Right?
• 20:22
  So.
• 20:23
  as an individual, like what are we, what are you really responding to as you make a decision, as you design a business?
• 20:29
  And then once you have a business architecture, now you're exposed to a whole nother set of incentives, right?
• 20:35
  Like if you have, right, a drive, you might have a drive to profit, you need to make money to keep your doors open.
• 20:42
  And maybe you think that profit is just a way of building something that then will allow you to be of service.
• 20:49
  Okay, now you have this tension and you have to think in every moment, what am I actually doing here?
• 20:55
  And being really honest about how we exist as people and how we structure a business and the power relationships inside of a business to get it to actually respond to what you
• 21:05
  want it to.
• 21:07
  Yeah, one of the ways that uh I lean and I kind of talk to others about leaning is service first, Profit is a byproduct of good service, right?
• 21:21
  Of what you provide.
• 21:22
  So yeah, it says profitable in the title, but there are, there's things that precede that, right?
• 21:28
  So, oh, really, really good.
• 21:31
  yeah, and like, what are we when we when we're of service to each other, what elements of each other are we serving?
• 21:39
  I could I could be of service to your addictive impulse and start selling you selling you cigarettes.
• 21:47
  Cigarettes to kids, right?
• 21:48
  But like, or there's so you know, like you're saying, right?
• 21:52
  Can we can we actually be of service to each other's process of becoming?
• 21:58
  That's a different thing.
• 22:00
  Yeah, that's so good.
• 22:02
  oh Let's talk about culture because my wife works for a company and I just love their culture.
• 22:08
  I love my culture.
• 22:10
  But uh she's been working for them for over 10 years now.
• 22:16
  And oh that is one of the remarks that they get all the time.
• 22:19
  It's like when people come work for them or other people that run other businesses see their culture, they're like, man, your culture is just so good.
• 22:27
  So uh
• 22:30
  Talk about what makes, from your perspective, what makes a good culture, and then oh let's look at the flip side of that, of culture breaking down, like what causes culture to break
• 22:39
  down.
• 22:40
  man, I feel like we should pause the episode and get your wife in here.
• 22:43
  That's good.
• 22:49
  I think...
• 22:52
  The uh focus on collaboration is what makes cultures successful, right?
• 22:58
  The idea that every person has a really important value to contribute into our collective process and that no one would ever be able to do it without each other.
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  So we all have something really beautiful to contribute and we all have a limit.
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  And
• 23:16
  Cool, so how do we do that?
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  How do we invite each other's contributions?
• 23:20
  How do we honor our own limits and each other's limits?
• 23:24
  And how do we act with true humility?
• 23:27
  So there's a parable I really like.
• 23:28
  What's humility?
• 23:30
  Rabbi has two pieces of paper in his hand.
• 23:34
  One piece of paper says the entire world was made for you, and the other piece of paper says you are nothing but dust and ashes.
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  And humility is the ability to know which piece of paper to look at at what time.
• 23:46
  That's what it is.
• 23:47
  So humility is not me making myself small.
• 23:50
  It's me recognizing what size I need to be in what space.
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  And then if I'm actually humble, it's what allows me to defer to someone else.
• 24:01
  It's like, oh, this is a time for me to be small and listen.
• 24:05
  And it's a time for me to invite you to be big.
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  oh five minutes later, roles are reversed.
• 24:10
  And when we can move and we're not hung up on power, we don't get
• 24:14
  bogged down in power dynamics.
• 24:16
  We don't get bogged down in projections and nonsense and judgments of each other.
• 24:21
  We don't get bogged down in any of the like race identity stuff.
• 24:25
  We're not making one person big or small because of any of that.
• 24:29
  We're actually operating as humans.
• 24:32
  Then we're like able to really collaborate and we love it.
• 24:35
  Humans are collaborative creatures.
• 24:37
  We love it.
• 24:39
  Yeah, I love all that.
• 24:41
  it kind of, we have a morning Bible study that we do every Friday morning.
• 24:45
  And one, it actually came up like, is a verse in the Bible where God talks about that you are his masterpiece, right?
• 24:53
  So we could get all puffed up, like I'm God's masterpiece, right?
• 24:57
  But it also talks about being humble.
• 24:59
  So kind of almost in that same vein, like you gotta find...
• 25:03
  Yes, you're his masterpiece, but that doesn't mean you go out there and have a bloated ego, right?
• 25:10
  But as you write that, I think that's the fun thing, right?
• 25:13
  That's why Bible study isn't particularly fun, right?
• 25:16
  You sit there and there's six people doing the Bible study and they all have the thought, they're all told that they're the masterpiece all at the same time.
• 25:25
  Then you have to look at each other and be like, well, if I believe it about me, then you believe it about you.
• 25:31
  So this masterpiece thing is not in the hierarchy better than.
• 25:36
  thing that we've been conditioned into as Americans.
• 25:39
  There's something else that's going on.
• 25:41
  Yeah, valuing the other person.
• 25:44
  When you're able to, that's, think that's the actually secret superpower is when you're able to look at the other person as a masterpiece and treasure them, right?
• 25:52
  oh Wow.
• 25:54
  uh It's a struggle.
• 25:58
  It's a struggle sometimes.
• 25:59
  I get it perfect like 18 % of the time.
• 26:05
  Let's talk about rules and you know some people like to color outside the lines and don't like rules right?
• 26:11
  So is there a way that rules actually create more freedom?
• 26:16
  Yes.
• 26:18
  Okay, can you elaborate?
• 26:19
  oh
• 26:21
  Um, well, let's just start somewhere really basic, which is right now me and you are following all of the rules of the English language.
• 26:31
  And if we stop following the rules of the English language, this would become a very positive conversation.
• 26:39
  And there are certain.
• 26:40
  any other languages.
• 26:42
  There are certain things that are easy to express in English and certain things that are harder to express in English and easier to express in other language.
• 26:50
  But because we've agreed these are some rules we're playing by, that's what allows this thing to happen.
• 26:56
  And I think that we have a lot of baggage.
• 26:58
  People have a lot of baggage around even the word rules.
• 27:02
  I often talk about em two big forces of creativity, and this exists in a lot of different wisdom traditions.
• 27:09
  But there's structure and there's flow.
• 27:12
  uh Structure in a business environment is your job descriptions, your decision-making chart, the agenda for your meeting, your accountability systems and processes, all those
• 27:27
  things.
• 27:27
  And then flow is right when you show up to a meeting, you're like, what do we need to do now?
• 27:31
  What's alive right now?
• 27:33
  How do I get into my flow state to do my work?
• 27:36
  And the thing about structure and flow is you need them both.
• 27:41
  If you only use flow, then once you get up to, you know, especially get up three, four, 10, 15, 20 people with no structure just trying to flow, it's really hard to get that to
• 27:55
  cohere.
• 27:56
  It ends up kind of becoming a mess, right?
• 27:58
  So then you want a structure that comes in and supports that flow to be able to continue to flow even more.
• 28:06
  But you have the risk that when you bring structure in, it squashes the flow.
• 28:09
  And everybody's been in that meeting, right?
• 28:11
  Where it's like, just need to talk this out with you.
• 28:13
  I don't need to do agenda meetings, right?
• 28:15
  That's that structure squashing flow.
• 28:17
  So the pattern is usually you start with flow, you hit a limit, then you need structure to try to get it to increase the amount of flow.
• 28:26
  And then at some point, the flow starts to break the structure again.
• 28:29
  And it is no longer the right structure.
• 28:32
  Because what you need at...
• 28:33
  organization of two people is not what you need and not what you need at 50.
• 28:38
  So you constantly need to break it and recreate it and allow it to like grow and become.
• 28:45
  I, we often talk about scaling a lot and uh often that piece of it doesn't come into the conversation, but it obviously definitely needs to like it's like you, it usually is in
• 28:56
  terms of revenue.
• 28:57
  You can't be the same things at as a million dollar business as you did at a hundred thousand dollar business.
• 29:04
  And the organizational part needs to just like you said, grow, grow with it.
• 29:11
  Right.
• 29:12
  And I think that brings right back to
• 29:14
  this next question, it turns into the profitability piece, Misalignment and bad culture can start to tank your business, right?
• 29:24
  um So when, I think we might have touched on a little bit, but I'm gonna go back there and maybe see if we can't dive a little bit deeper, but the cracks in the culture, right?
• 29:38
  What starts those cracks?
• 29:44
  There are so many places where you can have uh fun.
• 29:48
  couple.
• 29:53
  I think one really common pattern is...
• 29:59
  not being solution oriented and being problem oriented.
• 30:03
  Because no matter what your business is, no matter what your culture is, no matter what your experience as a human is, you're going to hit a whole bunch of stuff you wish was
• 30:10
  different.
• 30:13
  And if the reaction is, wish that was different, you change it.
• 30:25
  or I wish that was different, woe is me.
• 30:29
  I'm so hurt by the fact this is what it is.
• 30:33
  Obviously there's a place for the responsibility of others and sometimes we are really hurting one another, right?
• 30:38
  Not to erase that, right?
• 30:40
  But if the default reaction is that's a problem, I'm going to complain about it.
• 30:48
  that spirals because now I'm going to complain about you, you're going to complain about me, we're both going to complain about Joe over there, right?
• 30:54
  And it never becomes a solution.
• 30:57
  And whoever generates a solution, people are just going to complain about that person.
• 31:01
  All right, so this ability to like really lean in and take responsibility for creating the business together is a common breakdown.
• 31:09
  And the interesting thing about that breakdown is it's related to the structure and power structure of the business itself.
• 31:16
  Because if you have a business where let's say you have one CEO, say you've got a 25 person business, you've got one CEO and a four person C-suite, and they make every
• 31:28
  substantive decision, policy decision, on behalf of the organization, and then they communicate it out with no input and no feedback from anyone else.
• 31:37
  Well now, every other person in this business,
• 31:42
  is encouraged to point the finger at them.
• 31:44
  They're encouraged to think, this is happening to me and there's nothing I can do.
• 31:48
  Why?
• 31:49
  Because it's happening to them and there's nothing that they can do.
• 31:53
  And now you're going to get all sorts of other weird things.
• 31:56
  Now people are going to be less concerned with building the business and more concerned with just climbing the ladder so they have more power so that they don't have to live
• 32:02
  inside of other people's nonsense.
• 32:04
  Right.
• 32:05
  And now all of a sudden, all of this energy is getting sapped into that game that could be directed toward actually doing your work.
• 32:12
  Whereas if you have a structure that makes it so when that person complains, woe is me, I wish this wasn't happening, don't do this to me, you get to meet them and say, awesome,
• 32:24
  thank you so much for your observation.
• 32:26
  I'd like to invite you deeper into the creative process to figure out how we can harness this knowledge and maybe even make you the designer of the new solution.
• 32:34
  How can we really respond and turn this pain into creativity?
• 32:40
  And when you have something that's
• 32:41
  culture and a structure and systems like that, everything starts to grow in a very different way.
• 32:48
  Well, I'm so glad I asked that question a little deeper.
• 32:51
  think that this is I have rewind moments oh that I talk about on the podcast and for anybody watching, especially if you have a team, growing team, rewind that um and it all
• 33:03
  falls back to like what I hear you heard you say a lot in there without really saying it falls back on leadership.
• 33:09
  Right.
• 33:09
  Having having the right leaders with the right mindsets around growing culture in place.
• 33:15
  And I think part of the mindset of that form of leadership is to be less focused on who am I as a leader and how do I lead and more focused on how am I architecting the environment
• 33:36
  for collaboration amongst my team.
• 33:39
  Right?
• 33:40
  Because if we, a lot of us, we think leader and like, okay, we have all our ideas about that.
• 33:44
  But to be an architect of the collaborative environment often requires getting smaller sometimes, right?
• 33:52
  And being less, less vocal and really looking at the connections between other people and how to make the most, how to make the most of them.
• 34:00
  I think that segues really good into this line of questioning and thoughts is stewardship, right?
• 34:07
  We talk a lot about as Christians about stewardship, right?
• 34:11
  And it's a lot of times it's just related to money, but we steward so many different things.
• 34:17
  So what does stewardship look like at an organizational level?
• 34:24
  Yeah.
• 34:28
  I guess we're stewarding the collective experience of everyone.
• 34:34
  We're also stewarding the purpose and the impact of people's life force.
• 34:41
  When people show up and we get together and we're gonna spend eight hours a day, or we're gonna spend a third of our lives together directing our energy towards something.
• 34:54
  How do we actually shape that?
• 34:55
  And if you're a person who is involved in directing that energy, about which tasks people are doing and then how those tasks combine and what the impact they're having on the
• 35:05
  world, that's a really big, that's a big responsibility to think very, very carefully about how you're directing it.
• 35:13
  And then also you're asking people to show up to this environment.
• 35:19
  And we live in a world where people need a paycheck.
• 35:23
  And people are willing to tolerate pain, they're willing to tolerate indignity, they're willing to suffer for the paycheck because they need it.
• 35:29
  So if you're not cautious, you end up creating an environment that actually is generating misery for the people you're working with.
• 35:38
  And they're just staying there because they fundamentally feel trapped by the economic system and they can't figure out another choice.
• 35:44
  And you're basically extracting and preying on that, which is, in technical terms, a huge bummer.
• 35:51
  Right?
• 35:52
  So if you understand that, you realize, okay, if I'm gonna invite people together, I need to really think about the experience I'm creating, where we're directing all of this, and
• 36:03
  how can I be responsive to feedback as I do this because I know 100 % chance that I'm gonna miss the mark.
• 36:11
  There's no way I'm gonna be, I'm not coming out and.
• 36:15
  Having the completely sacred vision and I'm not gonna come out and be the next embodiment of Jesus that knows the answer to all of the different things like Unless you are we're
• 36:23
  just that's But for the rest of us, we're gonna constantly miss the mark.
• 36:27
  So we need to be able to attune and get that feedback
• 36:32
  Yeah, I talk about buying into the vision a lot too, right?
• 36:37
  oh As an entrepreneur, lot of people start up as solepreneurs and they have this vision.
• 36:43
  It's one thing for you to have the vision, but being able to grow a team and have them buy into the vision and all be on mission together.
• 36:50
  Kind of what you said, if they're just there for a paycheck, they're not on mission.
• 36:55
  They're on mission for sustainability and that's it.
• 37:01
  The most admirable companies oh that you see out there, really think do that well is like they believe in what the company is doing as a whole, right?
• 37:12
  And they want to be a part of it.
• 37:13
  And the leaders want them to be a part of it.
• 37:17
  Yeah.
• 37:17
  And they want them to be a part of it because they realize they're like, we're not just creating a business.
• 37:22
  We're also creating meaning for people and an opportunity for people to live out their values.
• 37:27
  And we want to invite people into that.
• 37:29
  And that if you start on that trajectory, kind of as an individual visionary that starts to assemble a team.
• 37:37
  There's this real art to understanding how tightly and loosely to hold your own vision.
• 37:42
  At the beginning, it's got to be tight because you have to have a clear sense of what we're doing so that people can organize around you and you can, people understand the trip
• 37:52
  they're on.
• 37:53
  But if you act at a hundred person organization, the same way you acted at a two person organization, I have the vision and this is what we're doing.
• 38:02
  You just need to listen to me.
• 38:04
  Well, you're an egomaniac.
• 38:06
  First of all, and second of all, there's 99 other great people there that have a lot of insight and have a lot of ability to refine and challenge and grow and expand this vision.
• 38:18
  And you need to be able to be loose enough to do that.
• 38:20
  So the arc, I think for a lot of us of like how to hold on and then let go, but keep the boundaries of it.
• 38:30
  It's really hard to do.
• 38:32
  oh I kind of want to go here for a minute because I'm thinking the higher you go, the more difficult it may get.
• 38:41
  And I think one of the things that, and you can give your insights on this, is the ability for the leader to cultivate other good leaders, right?
• 38:51
  Because um otherwise, what do you have, right?
• 38:55
  m
• 38:56
  Yeah, definitely.
• 38:58
  And to understand what your lane is as an individual, because you're a solo entrepreneur, right?
• 39:06
  Your lane is everything the business requires.
• 39:10
  And you're probably good at 25 % of it, great at 25 % of it, passable at 25 % of it and completely terrible at the other 25.
• 39:20
  Right.
• 39:24
  But you think it's all me.
• 39:26
  And because it is, it won't by time you're at 10, 15 people, you should have identified what you are not good at, brought in people who are good at that and then understand the
• 39:41
  relationship between what you're good at and what they're not good at.
• 39:43
  Right.
• 39:44
  Are you the finance person and somebody else is a marketing person?
• 39:46
  Are you this business strategy person, somebody else's product?
• 39:50
  When do you need to defer to each of those?
• 39:53
  Right.
• 39:54
  Because even if you were the
• 39:55
  Founding person if you come out and you're like, know what?
• 39:59
  I'm actually just a great visionary when it comes to product marketing Well, sometimes the other person that you brought in you're gonna need to defer to them So how do you bring
• 40:10
  people in that you're willing to defer to understand the relationships and then from the beginning?
• 40:15
  Start building the trust so that you actually can Do that
• 40:22
  Yeah, I think there's a lot of different thought processes on the first hire that you make when you're a solvenor.
• 40:29
  Is that first hire your major weakness, right?
• 40:32
  Or is it, I mean, it's really contextual.
• 40:35
  It all depends on the business that you're in and all that sort of stuff.
• 40:37
  But maybe that first hire should be your weakness, like, especially if your weakness is sales, you need to get that salesperson in the door right away.
• 40:45
  But uh I can definitely see where that.
• 40:53
  I the first hire is somebody who you are able to be in complexity.
• 41:01
  Mmm.
• 41:03
  Ooh.
• 41:04
  Mm-hmm.
• 42:01
  Yeah.
• 42:22
  Yeah, I think that's another rewind moment.
• 42:24
  the one thing I want to add is you want them to be bought into the vision, right?
• 42:32
  But exactly like you said, but willing to challenge you, right?
• 42:36
  um On how to get there.
• 42:47
  Mmm
• 42:51
  Yeah, wow.
• 42:56
  Right.
• 43:46
  Yeah, I just didn't want to build it alone and now neither one of us are building it alone.
• 43:51
  Yeah, so that's so good.
• 43:54
  Rewind, go ahead, rewind, listen to all that.
• 43:57
  Now we finally get to the secret question.
• 44:00
  I feel like we're building up to this.
• 44:03
  So there is a secret question in every Prof.
• 44:08
  O'Christian visit podcast and your secret question is what is the secret to building a culture of collaboration?
• 44:28
  I don't, don't, you could go deeper, but I don't know how much deeper you have to go.
• 44:38
  Oh, so let's stop for a minute because it said you weren't being recorded for a minute.
• 44:42
  This might be an editing moment.
• 44:43
  Does it look like you're being recorded on your side?
• 44:51
  It just popped up and then went away.
• 44:52
  So it may be recording you.
• 44:54
  I don't know.
• 45:06
  It's okay.
• 45:10
  yeah, because it just shows it on my side.
• 45:11
  I hope that hasn't been going on for a while and just not told us.
• 45:56
  think that was an all right time for it to happen because we're kind of like you're about to go deeper.
• 46:02
  And so it makes a good cut point to kind of push it back together.
• 46:24
  I don't see the chord symbol on your side yet.
• 46:26
  uh If we have to, if we have to do this in two parts, we can, like if you have to leave and come back.
• 46:38
  Okay, so we'll continue.
• 46:40
  right.
• 46:44
  Well, you don't see it.
• 46:59
  Oh, okay.
• 47:00
  So as long as the whole thing's being recorded, oh I wasn't even aware it records the guests as well.
• 47:30
  So I'm done.
• 47:35
  Okay, all right, so um if we go with it and the rest of the interview is just me talking to myself, I'll just have to you come back on and answer the rest of the questions.
• 47:46
  All right, okay.
• 47:52
  Okay, this is first time I've had this experience where it's popped up.
• 48:02
  it and it seems like it's like well mine's paused at 99 % uploaded but yours is paused at 93.
• 48:16
  On your side.
• 48:19
  Yeah, might have to do some editing.
• 48:20
  Might as well.
• 48:21
  As long as it...
• 48:22
  Yeah.
• 48:22
  Yep.
• 52:15
  Yeah, sorry.
• 52:16
  All right, it says recording now.
• 52:18
  and on my side.
• 52:19
  Okay.
• 52:20
  Awesome.
• 52:20
  Okay.
• 52:21
  So I think we should just go with that question again.
• 52:25
  What is, like, just uh act like I just asked the question, what is the secret?
• 52:30
  I forgot what it was.
• 52:31
  What is the secret to creative collaboration?
• 52:36
  Yeah.
• 52:37
  Yeah.
• 52:39
  Let me just breathe.
• 52:42
  Where did it go?
• 52:43
  What is secret to building a culture of collaboration?
• 52:48
  The first most simple thing is just do it on purpose.
• 52:51
  It's not gonna happen by mistake, it's not gonna happen by magic.
• 52:58
  Your ideal culture is not gonna emerge any less intentionally than your ideal strategy.
• 53:04
  And it's not gonna emerge with any less investment than your ideal structure.
• 53:09
  So to really do it on purpose.
• 53:12
  And I think if there's one...
• 53:15
  There's only like one principle to remember when trying to create it.
• 53:21
  It's be fast to apologize.
• 53:25
  Be very, very fast.
• 53:27
  Like the, we're always missing the mark of who we long to be constantly.
• 53:36
  And when we notice it, especially as like a leader,
• 53:43
  The ability to say, was wrong yesterday.
• 53:46
  We had a conversation, I was wrong yesterday and Doug was right.
• 53:51
  That's not weakness, that is strength.
• 53:54
  That's credibility.
• 53:56
  That's trust building.
• 53:57
  That's inviting your other collaborators to do the same and making everyone realize that this isn't a space where we're perfect and you're not measured by never getting anything
• 54:07
  wrong.
• 54:07
  What you're measured by here, like the biggest value is being honest about when you miss and using that as the engine to get you closer.
• 54:17
  And that...
• 54:19
  When groups can do that really well and really kindly and lovingly, it's really magical.
• 54:27
  I love all that.
• 54:28
  I think that's another rewind moment.
• 54:30
  So rewind and listen to what he just said again.
• 54:34
  And I think about most entrepreneurs, they become entrepreneurs and they lack this fear of failure, right?
• 54:41
  They may have some fear of failure, but they proceed in spite of it, right?
• 54:44
  oh And then when you instill that still down into your organization, allow them to fail, right?
• 54:52
  This kind of aligns with what you're saying.
• 54:54
  It's kind of a slightly different thing.
• 54:56
  vain, but if you allow them to fail, try, allow them to attempt things, right?
• 55:03
  Even though they may fail, oh you are, I think that's a catalyst to continue your organizational growth, right?
• 55:11
  Yeah, allowing it to fail, and I'm reminded kind of back to the saxophones.
• 55:17
  There's this famous saxophone player, Sonny Rollins.
• 55:21
  He's a tenor, and he used to sit on the Brooklyn Bridge for hours a day playing the exact same note, one note.
• 55:34
  And if you had heard him when he started, he was a great saxophone player.
• 55:40
  But he spent hours a day listening to what was coming out of his horn and hearing what he wanted to, what he could, and constantly noticing, it's not there yet.
• 55:53
  It's not there yet.
• 55:54
  It's not there yet.
• 55:55
  If I do this, right?
• 55:57
  So even if you're in this space of feeling like I'm perfect and I'm great, no, no, there's still a gap between who you are and who you really long to be.
• 56:08
  And
• 56:09
  People will tell you about the gap.
• 56:11
  The world will reflect the gap back to you.
• 56:13
  So if we're just here for the process, it's not threatening.
• 56:16
  uh The moment we create an idea that like I'm perfect and I'm complete, then failing is like, or failing or missing the mark or whatever is a threat to our ego.
• 56:28
  But if we come in and like, I don't know, I'm trying my best.
• 56:30
  Can't wait to figure out where the next wrong note was so I can figure out the right one to make it, the next one to make it right.
• 56:37
  It's a little better.
• 56:39
  Yeah.
• 56:39
  Um, that reminds me of a story about Kobe Bryant that I heard recently, um, that Shaq actually told him was a, it was a playoff game or something where he shot like the last
• 56:49
  four should have hopefully they were going to be the game winning shot.
• 56:52
  were all airballs.
• 56:53
  They didn't just miss.
• 56:55
  They were airballs.
• 56:56
  The great Kobe Bryant shot like four airballs in a row.
• 57:00
  and yes, he was devastated, but, Shaq was the first person to like come up and tell him, you know, yeah.
• 57:08
  You know, that wasn't great, but people are going to fear you.
• 57:12
  That was in his rookie year, I think, people are going to fear you.
• 57:15
  And it just encouraged him, you even though he had failed, the fact that he even wanted to take the game, try and win the game, right?
• 57:24
  So.
• 57:24
  it's it's fun in basketball like because it's obvious like an air ball is obvious something really funny happens in business where like the leader of a team will make a
• 57:33
  decision everyone else will know that it was an air ball and the leader will just deny that it was an air ball.
• 57:39
  Mmm.
• 57:40
  Yeah, won't take ownership.
• 57:42
  Yeah.
• 57:44
  Yeah.
• 57:45
  Yeah.
• 57:46
  Yeah.
• 57:46
  Yeah.
• 57:47
  That's so good.
• 57:49
  One thing that I love to do is give practical advice from the show.
• 57:53
  uh We just launched an app and it's kind of all about that kind of thing.
• 57:57
  It's the goal getting app and it's all about practical strategic advice to each goal.
• 58:01
  So I like to bring that same type of energy into these podcast interviews.
• 58:06
  So since uh
• 58:08
  this is all about structural organization, I'm going to ask you some questions that might give them some practical advice to what to do.
• 58:15
  So if they're listening and they realize their organization is misaligned, what's that next step they do, where they start?
• 58:25
  Hmm.
• 58:30
  I'm trying really hard to give an answer that is not plugging something on my website and I'm going to try.
• 58:42
  No, no, so we've got this.
• 58:47
  If you go to harmonize.work, there's this free download, a collaboration manual.
• 58:51
  You just grab it.
• 58:54
  And what it does is it's a big overview of all the different component parts of an organization.
• 59:00
  the way we think of it in terms of what you see, be, work and grow together.
• 59:05
  So what you see, how do you make sense of reality and understand your vision and context?
• 59:10
  The way you be, how do you navigate individual experience and relationships and cultures?
• 59:15
  How you work together the systems and.
• 59:19
  um
• 59:21
  and standard operating procedures and policies inside your organization, and how do you grow?
• 59:25
  How do you respond to the need to change and change accordingly?
• 59:30
  And then we go down into each of those, into all these little component parts.
• 59:34
  And the reason I think it's a good step is because most of us, when we are a business leader, and it's, okay, something isn't working.
• 59:45
  You're probably a bit, you might be a business leader, you might have some, you know,
• 59:50
  we'll call it like a regenerative farming product or whatever.
• 59:53
  You might start at that because you know about farming.
• 59:57
  Okay.
• 59:57
  And now all of a sudden you're trying to diagnose the root causes of an issue in an organization.
• 1:00:02
  You never develop that expertise.
• 1:00:05
  So you're going to bring, and that's not a, yeah, it's not an insult.
• 1:00:10
  just an observation, right?
• 1:00:11
  We have different lanes.
• 1:00:13
  So most of us, we default to a particular understanding of what the problem is.
• 1:00:19
  So some people, no matter what it is, they're always gonna say it's a culture thing.
• 1:00:22
  Some people are like, no, we just need to get a clear vision.
• 1:00:25
  Somebody's like, no, we just need clear roles.
• 1:00:27
  Now, if you zoom out and you look at kinda how do we see beadwork and grow together and think, kinda comb through that and think, what are we strong at?
• 1:00:37
  What are we not strong at?
• 1:00:38
  That can really get the wheels turning in what you then want to invest in.
• 1:00:47
  Right?
• 1:00:47
  And doing that before you go out and hire a consultant to help you is really important because if you go to a consultant, if you're like, I think it might be a marketing issue,
• 1:00:55
  and then you go to a marketing consultant, they're going to tell you it's a marketing issue.
• 1:01:00
  Right?
• 1:01:01
  But if you first like, what's going on?
• 1:01:03
  And then you start to move, that can be really helpful.
• 1:01:06
  Yeah, so we'll put that link below, can you tell us what the link is so if they're listening they can type it in?
• 1:01:14
  All right.
• 1:01:17
  like the music, .work, like the thing we're trying to do.
• 1:01:21
  Nice, nice.
• 1:01:22
  So look for that link if you're watching this in the show notes below or wherever.
• 1:01:26
  It might be in the show notes, it might be in a comment below the video in the description.
• 1:01:29
  It's somewhere close by this video uh or this audio wherever you're listening to it.
• 1:01:35
  Grab that.
• 1:01:37
  And I love, it seems, this is not intentional, but it seems always, it's...
• 1:01:43
  attraction, right?
• 1:01:44
  I always bring people on the show not even knowing beforehand that they're value leaders.
• 1:01:48
  And what I mean by that is they want to show value before someone even comes and wants to work with them, right?
• 1:01:54
  So your resource is showing value that, hey, this is going to help you take that next step.
• 1:02:00
  That's what I tell everyone is if you can help someone just take that next step, oh they're going to want to work with you because you've already helped them.
• 1:02:10
  So.
• 1:02:12
  that's what we're out here doing.
• 1:02:15
  Trying to be trying to meet cool people, have good conversations, learn some things, hawk my wares, know, the usual.
• 1:02:22
  That's why we're in business, right?
• 1:02:24
  ah So is there one small, like somebody's like, great, yes, I'll go grab that resource, but I want to fix something tomorrow.
• 1:02:35
  Is there one small shift that they can do?
• 1:02:38
  Again, contextual, I understand that.
• 1:02:42
  You don't know the problem, so you don't know the things that they should do.
• 1:02:45
  But ah could it be just a shift in mindset or uh a small thing that they could do?
• 1:02:57
  Listen to the pain and listen to the conflict.
• 1:03:01
  right, so going toward pain and toward conflict, because usually that's where the new possibility lives.
• 1:03:11
  And you're already there.
• 1:03:12
  like, something isn't right.
• 1:03:13
  I need to change something.
• 1:03:14
  Go straight toward it and then ask other people around it how they're experiencing it and what it would look like, what an accurate solution would look like.
• 1:03:26
  Right?
• 1:03:27
  So just if, if you understand what the pain is or the conflict is, and you understand what the people experiencing it think a complete solution looks like, you just created your
• 1:03:40
  success metrics for whatever you need to do.
• 1:03:43
  And doing that before you start just moving around, changing things, will get a better solution and it'll get more buy-in for people.
• 1:03:51
  So really starting with listening and doing that.
• 1:03:56
  Oh, that's good.
• 1:04:01
  I'm gonna ask you some rapid fire questions now and they can be one word answers, no need to dive deep, but they can be also be more than one word.
• 1:04:08
  uh To give some explanation, I think a little explanation over the first one might be necessary.
• 1:04:14
  Is culture more important than strategy?
• 1:04:16
  What's the difference between them?
• 1:04:19
  than culture and strategy?
• 1:04:23
  You're asking me a question now.
• 1:04:25
  Well, which one's more important?
• 1:04:28
  They're both because the clarity of the strategy that you have is going to inform the culture that people have.
• 1:04:38
  The way that you are in culture is going to inform the way that you develop the strategy and how that evolves.
• 1:04:44
  And both of those things are needed for cohesion, right?
• 1:04:47
  The strategy is going to be really needed in
• 1:04:51
  in order to help people understand how their behaviors, their actions contribute to something.
• 1:04:58
  And culture is really important for everything else and navigating all of the mush.
• 1:05:04
  I think there's the, know, there's this guy who was like, culture eats strategy for breakfast.
• 1:05:08
  And then some of the other people were like, no, strategy eats culture for breakfast.
• 1:05:12
  But if you go into them, they're really deeply interdependent.
• 1:05:19
  Yeah, I think that's so true.
• 1:05:21
  Can you scale without alignment?
• 1:05:29
  No.
• 1:05:30
  You can either align transparently, consensually, and kindly, or you can do it through coercion and incentive, coercive incentives.
• 1:05:41
  But you're gonna get people in line.
• 1:05:45
  Just a question of how you're gonna do it and is the way that you're bringing them into alignment in alignment with who you're really trying to be.
• 1:05:52
  good is burnout more about workload or misalignment.
• 1:06:09
  My own burnout is definitely more about misalignment.
• 1:06:15
  because I'm doing things that don't create satisfaction and don't bring me joy.
• 1:06:25
  If I'm doing things that create satisfaction, bring me joy, and I'm in community in there and align with my way I wanna be in the world, that's not work, that's just living and
• 1:06:33
  you're paying me for it.
• 1:06:36
  So I think it's alignment more.
• 1:06:40
  I agree with you totally because if you are doing uh something that you love, what's the saying if you're doing something you love, you'll never work a day in your life, right?
• 1:06:48
  So how could you be burnt out if you're not really working?
• 1:06:52
  Right?
• 1:06:52
  So yeah, I love that answer.
• 1:06:55
  What's one leadership myth you'd like to retire?
• 1:07:05
  that
• 1:07:10
  There is this thing called being a leader, and people do it the same way, and there's better and worse ways to be a leader.
• 1:07:17
  And that's...
• 1:07:23
  Having a leadership position means that you have to then be an expert in things you are not really an expert at.
• 1:07:34
  You know, I've talked to so many CEOs and directors.
• 1:07:39
  They show up, they rose to their ranks because they were an incredible lawyer, and now all of a sudden they're the manager of 20 lawyers, but it's the first time they've been a
• 1:07:51
  manager.
• 1:07:54
  And it's like the skills are not always immediately transferable.
• 1:07:59
  especially when we get into those increasingly powerful positions where we are the architects of the environments for other people realizing like, we didn't learn that.
• 1:08:11
  And go learn it, because you can learn.
• 1:08:14
  yeah.
• 1:08:15
  Awesome.
• 1:08:15
  Or uh bring on the next leader, start bringing up the next leader for that, right?
• 1:08:21
  Wow, I love that.
• 1:08:23
  So let's talk about outcomes, right?
• 1:08:26
  So if organizations truly align their values with their structure, what would change?
• 1:08:38
  When your structure and your values are deeply aligned, we experience a lot of trust.
• 1:08:47
  And we look at each other and we say, oh you're telling me who you want to be, and you're being that.
• 1:08:56
  And you're telling me how we want to be together, and we're pretty close, and we're able to talk about where we aren't.
• 1:09:03
  And that environment of trust is one of the
• 1:09:08
  biggest values in any organization or any business.
• 1:09:12
  Because it's what's going to create psychological safety, which is going to create experimentation and appropriate risk taking, which is going to create innovation.
• 1:09:20
  It's also going to create strong relationships, which is going to help you with retention.
• 1:09:24
  It's also going to create joy, right?
• 1:09:27
  Which is going to just, what are we doing if we're not having joy?
• 1:09:30
  Right?
• 1:09:30
  So if we actually get this thing, get these things aligned,
• 1:09:39
  it's really, really important because we've all been inside of a business that says they're trying to have a good impact in the world or be of service in the world and we
• 1:09:50
  walk in and we're like, oh, you're not actually about that life.
• 1:09:55
  Right.
• 1:09:56
  Yeah.
• 1:09:57
  And when that happens, you're really, limited.
• 1:10:05
  And I think, yeah.
• 1:10:07
  you mentioned joy in there because as someone that feels like uh is involved in a community oh that harmony, right?
• 1:10:18
  I love the name.
• 1:10:19
  It's harmonized.
• 1:10:20
  Like we all just are there.
• 1:10:21
  Like when you're all there for each other, kind like for the same purpose, for the same goals, same mission.
• 1:10:28
  oh There's, there's, it's, there's hard to even put words to the feeling.
• 1:10:35
  that you have when you're in a really good community.
• 1:10:39
  So thanks for that.
• 1:10:41
  ah So ah we've talked a lot.
• 1:10:46
  We've shared oh the website.
• 1:10:48
  You said it was harmonized.work.
• 1:10:50
  Is that correct?
• 1:10:50
  oh So where else can people find out more about what you do or is that the main place they should go?
• 1:10:57
  That's a great spot.
• 1:10:58
  um know, LinkedIn, my name, Simon Mott or Harmonize Consulting, Instagram, Harmonize Consulting, YouTube, Harmonize Consulting, Google.
• 1:11:09
  But that's really em the best spot.
• 1:11:13
  And then I think the website is really the ideal place because you can get the free resource.
• 1:11:20
  And then I just have like.
• 1:11:21
  Many times a week have just quick exploratory calls with people for a half an hour or try to like give a little bit of some useful and feeling if it's into a good relationship to
• 1:11:31
  work with.
• 1:11:33
  Nice, uh I encourage everyone that's listening, if you really want to start getting that team, get that harmony, get that joy on your team, right?
• 1:11:45
  uh Whether it's your three people right now or your 100 people uh or more, reach out uh to Simon because he can, we've talked a lot about it, right?
• 1:11:57
  The culture.
• 1:11:58
  can help like scaling with culture is so much better than trying to scale without it.
• 1:12:02
  Right.
• 1:12:03
  uh That's right.
• 1:12:08
  That's right.
• 1:12:08
  That's right.
• 1:12:09
  uh And we as entrepreneurs, we all want to love what we build.
• 1:12:12
  Right.
• 1:12:13
  And we don't want to at the end of where we feel like we're close to the mountaintop.
• 1:12:18
  And then we look back and like this these material things and status and all that that I've created.
• 1:12:25
  has come at the expense, we don't want to say it's come at the expense of these people and this culture is not good, right?
• 1:12:31
  We want to bring people up with us, not drag people with us, right?
• 1:12:36
  So.
• 1:12:37
  you're, you're, if you're building a business to make, let's say a piece of software, the software is one thing that you're gonna, you're creating in the world.
• 1:12:49
  The business itself is another thing you are creating and bringing into the world.
• 1:12:54
  And you can do it responsibly and beautifully, or you can do it irresponsibly and really ugly.
• 1:13:00
  And it's way more fun to do it beautifully.
• 1:13:04
  Yeah, much more fulfilling, right?
• 1:13:07
  Yeah.
• 1:13:07
  Well, thank you, Simon.
• 1:13:09
  This has been a great interview.
• 1:13:10
  This is probably becoming, this is probably becoming cliche from the people that watch these and they wonder if I really become friends with my podcast guests, but I do.
• 1:13:21
  I really feel like after a really good conversation like this, I have a new friend.
• 1:13:25
  So Simon.
• 1:13:28
  All right.
• 1:13:29
  Well, nice.
• 1:13:31
  Well, I'm happy to call you a new friend, Simon.
• 1:13:34
  Amen.
• 1:13:35
  oh, I almost forgot.
• 1:13:37
  I hate this.
• 1:13:39
  I was going to not.
• 1:13:40
  There's a staple to every one of these uh interviews that I ask because there is probably some piece of wisdom sitting on the top of your head right now or some piece of
• 1:13:49
  encouragement on sitting on top of your head right now.
• 1:13:52
  And I may have not asked the question.
• 1:13:54
  It might not just come up.
• 1:13:55
  So this is the free form part of this.
• 1:13:58
  Do you have any parting words that you'd like to pass on to the audience?
• 1:14:07
  What are you serving for real?
• 1:14:10
  How honest about that are you for real?
• 1:14:14
  If an alien came from another planet and looked at your life and looked at your business and looked at what you were doing and that alien had no idea about any of the ideologies
• 1:14:25
  or stories or religions that you have, what would they say that you were at service of?
• 1:14:30
  And how much can you stare that question in the face?
• 1:14:35
  nice, nice, yeah.
• 1:14:36
  So rewind and listen to that again, too.
• 1:14:39
  All right, thank you again, Simon.
• 1:14:41
  And until next time, our viewers, keep moving forward.
• 1:14:47
  That was fun.