Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Eye on the Prize - How to Develop a Competitive Mindset

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Eye on the Prize - How to Develop a Competitive Mindset · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_02: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
0:10
SPEAKER_02: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
0:13
SPEAKER_02: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: Each week, we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
0:23
SPEAKER_02: Some people are natural-born competitors.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: They thrive on the pressure and inner drive to win no matter what the situation.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: But for some people, a competitive mindset is a quality that must be developed and honed over time.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: Today on Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast, we explore techniques to begin developing a competitive mindset to drive you through high-pressure situations and ways to come out on top, win or lose.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, it's Courtney Ortiz, and welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: I am your host, and I'm, of course, here with my co-host, Leslie Mueller.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: Hey Courtney.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: Happy May.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: Happy May.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: I can't believe we're in May already.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: Wow, the season's flying.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: It's flying by.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: It's almost over.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: I hope everybody has been having a great competition season.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know that I have, and I feel very blessed to have been able to be on judging panels this season.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that all of our IDA judges have felt the same way because last season got cut short.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: So we're back, we're in action.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: So many live competition events are happening.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: So shout out to all of our IDA judges and all of our IDA affiliated competitions that are supporting IDA and hosting live events.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: It's been such a pleasure to see so many dancers hitting the stage.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: And Leslie, I know you've been on the other side of the table as well on your competition season.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes, Spirit of Dance Awards has me directing this year.
1:47
SPEAKER_02: And it's really, it's really cool to be on the other side to see, you know, what happens backstage because as judges, we see what's on stage.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: You know, so being on the other side of the table and interacting with the studio directors and the parents and the kids, everybody's just been so, so, so happy to be back.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, this season.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it has been knock on wood, let's keep this positive gratitude vibe going um into next year because everybody's just so glad to be back.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: And I know that, you know, it might look and feel a little different this year for a lot of us, depending on where we're at in the country.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: But I think we all just have to remember how lucky we are to be back on stage and for all the dancers to be doing what they love and sharing their passion with the audience and the judges and the competitions.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: It just is so inspiring for us as judges and educators and teachers and directors and to the competition staff.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: We're just also happy.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: So yay to everyone in the competition world making this happen.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: Woo! And speaking of competitions, I'm sure you've heard us talk about our virtual competition at IDA.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: I know that a lot of people, like I mentioned, are able to go into the live competitions this season, but there may be dancers still around the world that aren't able to have and don't have access to a physical live event.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: So we wanted to make sure that we had a virtual opportunity still available for all of those dancers out there to participate in.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: And so many international entries are flooding in.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: Our May event is still open with registration.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: So if you have solos or groups from your studio that you would like to enter into our current May virtual competition event, head over to our website now to learn more at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com slash virtual competition.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Our registration closes on May 10th.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: So be sure to hurry up and register before it's too late.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: We are also loving all of our interactions and hanging out with you guys on our podcast community group on Facebook.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: It's called Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast community.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: I just love hearing about how everybody's competition weekends have been going.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: Courtney's been posting kind of like a competition weekend recap every Monday, and we just get pictures and you know notifications from all over the country.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: So it's been really cool to see what's going on with everybody.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: Don't be shy, everyone.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: If you have questions that you want to ask in the group, I say go for it because we've got IDA judges right here.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: We've got insight from all kinds of listeners, including other teachers, studio owners, dance parents, dance business owners.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: We have some like older dancers who are also in the Facebook group that are listeners as well.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: So it's just a really neat place to just come together and have some unique conversations that I don't think are happening in some of the other dance groups on Facebook.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: Right.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: So we have a nice blend of a variety of types of people that are in our group, you know, like you said, Leslie.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: So there's so much that can be asked, and then you get a lot of different perspectives from different, you know, people in the different sides of the industry.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Right.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, if you're interested in in joining, if you haven't already, uh search us on Facebook, Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast community, and answer a couple questions regarding who you are and how you're affiliated with the dance world, and we will let you in.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: It's time to hear about our wonderful sponsors that have supported Making the Impact in season two.
4:52
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4:56
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5:05
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5:10
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5:12
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5:16
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5:49
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5:52
SPEAKER_02: We are super excited to welcome a brand new sponsor for our podcast for the rest of the season.
5:57
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6:02
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6:04
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6:08
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6:37
SPEAKER_00: Yay, thank you so much to both of our sponsors, Dance Costumes by Erzua and Work Dancewear for supporting the pod.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: All right, listeners, we are talking about the competitive mindset today and what that means.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: And we have two lovely guests that are both IDA judges and both brand new to the podcast joining us today for this discussion.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait for you all to meet them and dive deep into this conversation.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: And the first judge that I would love to welcome is a judge that I've known, not and not just as a judge, but a friend that I've known for a very, very long time.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: We have been through so many auditions together.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure we've worked a handful of gigs together.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: And I don't see her as often because she's on the opposite coast these days, but I see her today virtually on the pod.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: And I'd love to welcome Miss Rachel Perlman to the podcast.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, Courtney and Leslie.
7:34
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having me today.
7:36
SPEAKER_03: I am so honored and excited to be here on the podcast today.
7:41
SPEAKER_03: I've just been loving all the episodes and how we are able to inspire and continue to help educate and guide dancers and educators, and not just during this difficult time before this, too.
7:54
SPEAKER_03: But I'm so pumped to be here today.
7:56
SPEAKER_03: Yay.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: Glad to have you, Rachel.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: And Rachel's been on the roster from the very beginning with IDA and always grateful for your support.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: So, Rachel, if you wouldn't mind sharing with the world a little bit about you, where you're from, where you're based, any career credits you'd like to share, and anything else about you.
8:16
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
8:16
SPEAKER_03: So um I'm originally from Cape Cod, Massachusetts.
8:20
SPEAKER_03: I grew up dancing there, going to conventions, doing competitions, doing summer intensives, just absolutely knowing in my heart and soul that dance was it for me.
8:30
SPEAKER_03: So after uh finishing high school, I studied dance and got my BFA in dance performance and choreography at Elon University in North Carolina.
8:40
SPEAKER_03: Uh right after graduation, I was really fortunate to uh book dancing on a cruise ship.
8:45
SPEAKER_03: So I worked for Holland America line and traveled the world, went to all seven continents and danced my way around, which is really great.
8:53
SPEAKER_03: And uh after that, I actually Courtney, I Courtney and I switched places basically, and I replaced Courtney in the international tour of um the aluminum show.
9:06
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I know, girl, right?
9:08
SPEAKER_03: They were like, we need a short, feisty little dancer girl.
9:12
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, um, I think I can do that.
9:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:15
SPEAKER_03: Um, but uh, you know, those are big shoes to fill, actually.
9:20
SPEAKER_03: So I did that, and that kind of led me back to New York eventually, where I sort of fell in love with and began pursuing more musical theater route, and so dove into training and taking class from absolutely any and every up-and-coming choreographer and uh auditioning, like Courtney was saying, my life away.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: She and Leslie and I in those audition rooms for you know at five in the morning, just making it happen.
9:48
SPEAKER_03: And we'll definitely dive into that, I'm sure, later in this topic.
9:52
SPEAKER_03: But, you know, I was really fortunate to uh some of my favorite credits.
9:56
SPEAKER_03: I did Andy Blinken Bueller's Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat National and International Tour.
10:03
SPEAKER_03: I did the premiere of Prince of Egypt and Matilda and Cinderella at Tuokon Amphitheater.
10:10
SPEAKER_03: I'm really excited to be actually heading there.
10:13
SPEAKER_03: To uh choreograph and associate choreograph and assistant direct their upcoming production of Annie, which is like an absolute thrill because that means that things are happening, people.
10:23
SPEAKER_03: It is coming back.
10:24
SPEAKER_03: And uh I know, right?
10:26
SPEAKER_03: Live theater, live performances.
10:28
SPEAKER_03: So we are on the up and up.
10:29
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed and I'm gonna keep on being positive about it.
10:33
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, so those are, you know, I've I've done a lot of regional theater, some of my other favorites, West Side Story, you know, can't go wrong with that, and Mary Poppins, where I met my fiance, which is, I guess I can circle back.
10:46
SPEAKER_03: That's kind of how I ended up here where I am currently in Albuquerque, New Mexico, like Corney was saying, on the opposite side that I normally am on.
10:53
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's uh it's been an adventure this year, diving, you know, into some new things and expanding my horizons.
11:02
SPEAKER_03: And I'm just loving that I can still virtually judge, still virtually connect.
11:07
SPEAKER_03: It's been, you know, so much fun to do the virtual competitions and see dancers from all over the world.
11:12
SPEAKER_03: So I think that, yeah, I don't want to go on too much, but I think that that kind of is sort of sort of me.
11:19
SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: That's all about you.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: And love hearing all about you, Rachel.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: We're super happy to have you on the IDA team and joining us for the first time on the pod.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: So thanks so much.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: All right, and our next guest is another new guest to the podcast and also an IDA judge.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to get to know this uh studio owner and hear her perspective on this discussion as well.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to welcome Tracy Boone to the podcast.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited to be here.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for letting me come and hang out with y'all and chat.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: A little bit about me.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: I same like Rachel grew up competitively dancing and did an obscene amount of ballet as a child as well, danced with a little local ballet company, and then got to college and started doing some teacher training, got some certifications, and then I was like, yo, I love this teaching stuff.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: I really hit that hard and started working with um a lot of local dance schools, and then ended up moving back where I'm from and um did a lot of choreography, got into the judging stuff, and then was like, but I really love this.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: And so opened my own studio and been doing that ever since.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: And we have been really fortunate, specifically during this time, to honestly be able to keep going.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, I know a lot of places have not been able to.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: I live in the South.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm from Alabama, and so in the South, it's honestly just a little bit more lax overall, you know, than a lot of places.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: But because of that, we've been able to kind of keep going and make adjustments that still keep people safe, but honestly give us the opportunity to keep dancing.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: And we've been able to actually do competitions this year and stuff like that.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just really honestly just at a place where it's just like we're just grateful for whatever we get right now.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: And that's that's really it.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, just a little bit about me.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: Super happy to have both of you joining us today on this episode.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: So let's jump on in.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: Yay! So I think we've got we've got some really great perspectives here from you know, a studio owner who can speak to not only like a competitive mindset in terms of her students, but also the teachers and being studio owner.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, because that comes into play for us as well.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, a working, you know, auditioning, you know, dancer who spent all most of her time in New York City and that competitive mindset.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: So super excited to have these two different perspectives.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: And I would love to hear from both of you sort of just your definition of what a competitive mindset is, and then we will go into what it is not in a minute.
13:57
SPEAKER_03: Well, I think a couple of components and some characteristics of a competitive mindset for sure, is tying success to your not only the outcome, but the effort and the hard work that comes before what you are attempting to achieve has more to do than the winning and the losing, but it's this constant, even if nothing is at stake, something is at stake feeling.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: I like that.
14:27
SPEAKER_02: Even if something is not at stake, something is at stake.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, can you elaborate?
14:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, if I I think it it has to do with like this, and I and this is something that we can also dive into how it is something that's cultivated.
14:43
SPEAKER_03: And I don't believe that it's something that you're like necessarily born with.
14:47
SPEAKER_03: I think it's something that is cultivated through persistence and having to prove, and it doesn't always have to be to someone else, but I think it's having this feeling that you have to prove something to yourself and that you can be ever growing, ever changing, ever evolving, and it has to do with never being satisfied, a little Hamilton, right?
15:08
SPEAKER_03: Like if you're never satisfied, and you know, there's a balance there too, but if you are constantly pushing yourself to be that the best version of you, as opposed to the best version in the room, or the best version in the competition, or the best version, you know, in the world, whatever it is, as long as you're always working towards the best version of you and you have that at stake, yeah, then that I think is what drives the mindset versus the actual doing of anything and being like, this is my competition moment right here.
15:40
SPEAKER_03: But if it's a constant thing for you to have that feeling, that's kind of what it means.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: I like that.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'm kind of gonna piggyback off of what Rachel said.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: I like the idea that she kind of implied, which to me competitive implies that there's another, right?
15:54
SPEAKER_01: But what she said was like the other can be yourself.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really important to kind of like make sure we hone in on because I think it's really easy, specifically if you're a quote unquote competitive person, to always focus on the other as in another person, another thing, or whatever.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, no, I can compete with myself, and that's totally cool too, because it still forces you to be in a place where you're trying to achieve more or do more or grow or whatever.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: And so it can kind of be a little bit more broad than just like, I'm trying to be Suzy Q, you know what I mean?
16:24
SPEAKER_01: And then that just serves as your own personal like motivation or your own personal drive, which again makes it a little bit more broad and in my personal opinion, also honestly more balanced to not just say I'm trying to compete with another Suzy Q, but I can outdo myself, you know, which I think is good, you know?
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I definitely I I really love that we we started off with that because I really think that like you both mentioned, it's it's not always about the competition that's next to you, but it's that, you know, that passion, that's that drive to help elevate you as a person.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: What's your what are your goals that you want to achieve?
17:01
SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we get so stuck in into like who our competition is when we're at competitions or just, you know, in other aspects of life that we don't just step back and say, did I make did I make progress for me?
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Did I reach a goal that I've been wanting to achieve with this?
17:17
SPEAKER_00: And you know, we all I think I think everyone sort of, you know, not everyone, but at a point in time you you get that competitive drive.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: You you want to succeed.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: You you feel what that feels like.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it'll drive us and sometimes it'll, you know, hinder us from succeeding quicker or faster or or to where we want to go.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: But I really love that view of kind of just sometimes taking a step back and just focusing on your goals and yourself.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: And not not always about what everyone's doing right next to you.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are times in our dance career that we do have to look at it from that that perspective at times.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I I really like how we started this discussion off.
17:54
SPEAKER_03: I think it has to do with um also like having control over what you or hold on.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: What you actually accomplish, yes.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: Like what I'm if I'm competing against another person, I have no control, like you were saying, over what Suzy Q was going to do or not do.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: Can with myself, I know what I can achieve, you know.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I like that thread that you were about to slide into there, Rachel.
18:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
18:20
SPEAKER_03: You nailed it.
18:21
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for finishing up.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: I personally like that rewind sound you did.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: That was great.
18:28
SPEAKER_02: We're keeping it in.
18:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, don't vote cut me.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: So we've determined what a competitive mindset is, and I do think that everybody nailed it with a competitive mindset can be internal and could can very well have nothing to do with anybody else's path.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: You know, we can definitely internalize it for good a lot of the time.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, what's the opposite of a competitive mindset?
18:50
SPEAKER_02: And my thoughts about that, the opposite of a competitive mindset is when you're solely focused on the other, the other person and besting someone else and only only putting your focus out.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if that's maybe the opposite of a competitive mindset, but maybe that's the kind of competitive competitive mindset we don't want.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: Because then you end up basing your own personal success upon what others are doing.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: And to me, that devalues what you can actually do, that devalues what you actually bring to the table.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: It devalues your own personal ethic and work that you've put into something.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: And so to focus solely on the other, to soak to focus solely on the outside, to me is just personally demeaning.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, why would I do all this stuff and then see Susie Q succeed and then be like, well, I'm done.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
19:37
SPEAKER_01: That's just just to me, it doesn't make any sense.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: It's very, again, imbalanced.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: So um I I vibe with that idea, Leslie.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm with that.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: I think that's very easy for kids to get into because I remember thinking, thinking about myself for a very long time, including in some of my professional career, of not focusing enough on myself.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, like I think sometimes we we get into like this weird rut of like, well, don't be selfish.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: Don't only think of yourself, think of your teammates, think of all these other people.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I think you can get to the point where it's like it's easier to focus on somebody else, because then you don't have to do the personal work, which is a whole nother like psychology podcast we should probably do.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: But I think as kids and as teenagers, you know, like that part of your brain, you know, we kind of automatically jump to like, well, I have to be better than her.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: Like when you think competition, you think winning or losing.
20:27
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: Like that's just sort of the definition of competition.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: So I think that's a super important thing for younger dancers to hear is that you you do have to focus on yourself sometimes.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: And besting yourself and setting your own personal goals and maybe not worry about Suzy Q so much.
20:43
SPEAKER_02: Poor old Susie Q.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: She just brought up, man.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: Susie and Sally.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: Well, there's both, you know.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: Susie and Sally.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Lovely how Sally, Tracy brought Suzy Q today.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: And I like it.
20:59
SPEAKER_03: I think something also to think about in terms of like what it what is really like opposite would be someone that has more of a fixed mindset and is not open to the idea of the constant betterment and the constant growth and the application of feedback and those kinds of things.
21:19
SPEAKER_03: There's that side to it.
21:20
SPEAKER_03: And then there's also the side that's more passive where it's like, oh, this is useless, this is pointless, you know, or I will never get this, or that kind of negative self-talk.
21:31
SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's where a competitive standpoint can be beneficial in bringing forth like a positive and a future thinking and a forward thinking.
21:40
SPEAKER_03: Whereas it can be instead of I'm not good at this, so I'm not going to win, it could be I'm not good at this right now, yet.
21:49
SPEAKER_03: So how can I take steps so that I can be that best version of myself?
21:53
SPEAKER_03: And that's again a way of kind of like a self competing, a self winning approach.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm really glad that you said that.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's such an important point that you just made, Rachel, because we've talked about this a lot on the podcast, but like the instant gratification of this generation for dancers where they just kind of expect to be good right away.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna take time.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna take time for you to get good.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: You can't get deflated immediately when you get a high gold at competition and compare yourselves in that competitive nature that you may have brought to that event.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: Compare yourself and say, I give up.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm obviously not good at this.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: No, we need you we need to think with that exact mindset that Rachel just had and say, you know what, this might have not been my best performance, or maybe it was, and maybe the judges behind the table just didn't love it as much as I, you know, put my heart and soul into it.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: But my goal for next competition is to get one adjudication score higher.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: And if you put the hard work in, then you might see that that success happen for you.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: And like that is having the competitive mind in the correct way, in the proper way, instead of just being the opposite where it's like, I don't like this anymore.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm not good at this.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: I can't do this.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: I got a high gold.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: Why am I working so hard?
23:11
SPEAKER_00: This isn't worth it.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: I quit.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, that I feel like that those dancers that very well could be many listening or have experiences at a point in time where they felt like I want to give up, you know.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: Again, you have to also have the passion and the drive to want to keep going.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: And if it really is truly something that you don't love to do or you're frustrated with, then like that's that's okay.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: You're allowed to feel that.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I I think it is important to set those personal goals for yourself and you are going to get better.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: And that's the way to, you know, continue that positive competitiveness within you.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like how you you said positive competitiveness because I think people hear competition and it kind of like has a negative, the word has a negative connotation to it, which I don't think is crazy.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: If we're in, you know what I'm saying?
23:58
SPEAKER_01: Like you a positive competition, whether you're talking about self or other, it doesn't really matter.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: But it's like the idea of what you guys are just saying, I'm gonna keep pushing, I'm gonna keep doing, no matter, no matter what result I may or may not get.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: If I love this, I'll keep going.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes I may not love it.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: There will be like rough patches, there will be emotional like going through, there will be this, there will be that.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, the competitive mindset, I would say, from the positive perspective that you just said, um, to me is what keeps the propulsion going.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
24:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, despite how I feel, because we don't always feel the best.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and but that's okay.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not crazy.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: Have a day, cry, baby.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: That's okay, cry.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: And then keep going.
24:39
SPEAKER_02: We'd be more concerned if you didn't.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: Something that kind of came to mind while you were mentioning Wesley, and this is a little bit like kind of off topic as far as like speaking for the kids' dance competitions and things, but just like as professionals and using the competitive mindset, something that kind that you mentioned earlier about using it in auditions.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: I think that, you know, it for dancers listening, all of us have had to audition in our professional careers at a point in time, whether it's for a professional gig, whether it's to get into college, whether it's to do a certification.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: There's so many different layers of auditioning.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: And in a way, it's kind of a competitive nature because you're looking around to see who else is there.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: And whoever showed up is your competition that day, you know.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: If if fierce dancer showed up, you're like, uh-oh, I don't know if I'm gonna get this.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Or you know, or if if you're like, wow, I'm I'm I feel really confident.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I'm one of the best ones.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: You got dealt a good hand that day.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, the audition experience is definitely a com has a competitive nature to it as well.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: But I will mention that in once uh for a professional, you know, you're gonna bring that competitive mindset into the world as you as you continue on after you graduate into whatever career path you go, even in real life.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: But once you get the job, then the c the competition is kind of over.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: You got the job job.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
26:02
SPEAKER_00: You're not competing anymore.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're you were not competing.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Like that's when the teamwork element comes into play with competition dance, because we kind of touched on it a little bit and I feel like we've been kind of focusing on like the individual so far in this discussion, whereas there's also the aspect of a competitive nature for my team and me.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: And some people might have a different, you know, way to approach how they work with their team and like their view on com the competitive nature of it.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: But I was relating back to as a professional, once you get the job, you're not competing anymore.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: Now we're just a big old family.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: We got the gig.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: Like we got we're getting paid now.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
26:43
SPEAKER_00: And I I feel like that there's it's kind of a time in comp in competition dance where we don't ever feel that like release of I'm not cal I'm not competing right now.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: Because you're always kind of competing in competitive dance, like unless you're at a a performance or a recital, because there's no, you know, there's there's no, we're not fighting for anything.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: We're not up against anyone else.
27:05
SPEAKER_03: Right.
27:05
SPEAKER_03: Even within your studio, you know, when someone is setting choreography, you're competing against the people in who's gonna get the solo in the dance crew or whatever.
27:13
SPEAKER_03: Right.
27:13
SPEAKER_03: Like who's gonna get the solo?
27:15
SPEAKER_03: Who's gonna be in the front?
27:16
SPEAKER_03: And you know, so I think there's that edge too that it kind of, you're right, it never it never has that like settled feeling.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: In a studio setting, like unless you're not being unless you're in more of like a recreational type setting.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: But I mean that still applies, you know.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that that's such a good point.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: It still applies.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: And maybe as we mature, we we start to not care less, but you know, just brush off those types of things a little bit more because that example, Rachel, can apply in professional world as well.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, well, who's gonna get the feature?
27:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, who's gonna who's gonna get front and center for this section?
27:54
SPEAKER_00: Who's the choreographer gonna pick, even though I already have the job and I'm getting paid the same?
27:59
SPEAKER_00: I think that for me personally, I started not wanting to be that person that was.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: Big no thank you.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: Like, stay over that extra thing.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do the side leap and the partnering section.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Just keep me back here.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: I'll hang out.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting paid the same as everyone else.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: Like I I remember Courtney and my first job on uh Real Caribbean.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay, there was you're you're gonna remember this story.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: We had there were a few features in Boogie Wonderland.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: It was, you know, super fun, 70s show, awesome.
28:26
SPEAKER_02: There's four girl dancers, and we had to audition for a few features, and we all auditioned for everything.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: And I got stuck with what I still to this day think was the lamest, lamest part.
28:37
SPEAKER_02: It was to Dancing Queen from ABBA, and I walk I like I got to skip, like, I had the longest break ever.
28:43
SPEAKER_02: Like there was no such thing as a break in cruise ship land.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: Like you just change clothes and you get back on stage.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: But I think I probably had at least a song and a half or something.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: So I changed, I walk on stage, I stand on this stupid thing and like move my hands back and forth, do a bot mot and walk off stage.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I remember being so upset because I wanted brick house.
29:02
SPEAKER_02: You wanted to be the brick house girl.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: But poor Amber never got a break.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: Amber like changed her costume and came back on stage and like never had a break.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: And so, like looking back on it, like you're totally right.
29:13
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes the competitive mindset, you know, throws you off and gives you no break.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: So, like, if you can just like back off a little, you get to be the dancing queen and like breathe for a minute.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: There's a perk to it, you know.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: You look back now, you didn't see it then.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: You look back now and you're like, okay, well, I didn't like, I got to breathe for a little minute and take a water break and have to quick change.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: That's a bonus.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: And I didn't have to do the triple pirouette into the split on the floor every night.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: I didn't have to kill my body for a feature that gained me nothing besides just my like self-esteem and like exactly in the moment.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: In the nicer costume.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's very hard for kids to grasp.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: And like I said, maturity will come.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: Like as you get older, you'll start to realize that it's like, eh, okay, cool.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: She got the feature, whatever.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm gonna go do me.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but like for kids, it's just a hit to the heart.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh, I'm I didn't get it.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: Why didn't I get it?
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's I we just want to say it, you know, don't make it so deep.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: I you know, and we love the competitive nature of it.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: It you you you have that internally, but you know, I think that we're fighting for the future, and sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: I love that example, Rachel.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm really glad you brought that up.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're reminiscing.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: I know, right?
30:26
SPEAKER_02: I just watched that video the other day.
30:27
SPEAKER_02: That's why it stuck out in my head.
30:29
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you're gonna put this in here, but I I remember another example where Courtney was like, I'm not doing I'm not doing an aerial anymore.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: What an audition.
30:40
SPEAKER_03: I think it was a newsies audition.
30:42
SPEAKER_03: It was a newsies audition.
30:43
SPEAKER_03: They were like, if you tumble, like tumble now.
30:45
SPEAKER_03: And Courtney was like, Girl, I am not pulling that like aerial.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: She was like, they're not paying me enough for the But like I swear I feel like I walked into the industry very different.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Like when I was young and fresh and 18 and like my body didn't hurt, I walked into the industry like willing and able to do whatever it took to get a job.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're super eager.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: We we have these tricks up our sleeve.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: And then you start to do them in in jobs and you kind of feel a little taken advantage of.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and I'm sure maybe dancers can relate to this in the competitive world.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, you're I specifically remember Troy on the tricks versus technique talking about how he always did the handstand walk over people in the group competition.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: That was his go-to trick, and his teachers always made him do that.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: Essentially, your teacher's taking advantage of your trick because you can do it.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, once you get to the professional world, people are like, who can tumble?
31:37
SPEAKER_00: And then people phrase their hand, and then you're stuck tumbling eight times a week when your body's getting hurt.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: On a questionable floor.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes, questionable, yeah.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Are you getting PT?
31:45
SPEAKER_00: Like you start to realize that the feature's not really that worth it.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: If it's gonna hurt you or if it's gonna, you know, hinder what's next for you because you might have gotten injured.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: Whatever the case.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I that is an example, Rachel.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: I've definitely said I've said it.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: I've said it some more aerials.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love it.
32:15
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32:17
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33:04
SPEAKER_02: So I guess uh speaking to like studio skills, so we've been talking a lot about like what is probably and uh having remembered this about myself and probably some of us uh from being a teenager and from being a kid and feeling like that, feeling like competition means the other and not me.
33:20
SPEAKER_02: How can in the studio, as as teachers and as educators, how can we help uh young dancers develop that competitive mindset in the sense of competing with themselves?
33:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that is that is something that you do learn over time through experience, but I don't I think that if it is addressed, it will happen quicker.
33:39
SPEAKER_02: You know, I think a lot of us maybe didn't get that kind of advice or guidance early on.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: So, like maybe at some point in your 20s when you were also in therapy, that you know, that point comes up of like, no, maybe it's really just you that you need to be competing against.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: And that's like a mind-blowing thing at 25.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: So how can we start that early?
33:59
SPEAKER_01: Something that I do that I've done in the past with my dancers is so let me back up.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: My thought is that if you're on the competition team, it's just like implied it's ingrained.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're learning choreography to go to a dance competition and compete to see what's gonna happen.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: We already know that.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: So you don't have to really talk about the fact that we're competing to me.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: But something that I think to speak to what you just said, Leslie, is something that I'll do is I get like a sheet of paper and I'll put like the month that we're in, to say it's August, and then I'll put November on another line, and then February, and literally I have them write down starting in August, like something that you want to accomplish right now.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: And then maybe it's the pirouette.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: Maybe if you're a soloist, you want to, you know, make sure this one particular section is together, or get this one skill that we've put in it that you're working on that you know Miss Tracy will take out if you don't get it quick enough by January.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: Tracy's gonna take it out, okay?
34:55
SPEAKER_01: But maybe it's that, but whatever.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: So I have them like write down something that they want to accomplish, and then we just check in.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: We got this thing in August, then we're gonna come back in November.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: And then we're gonna check in do we accomplish this goal?
35:05
SPEAKER_01: Do we need to hold on to this goal?
35:06
SPEAKER_01: Do we need to add something else?
35:08
SPEAKER_01: And then we come back in February and do the same thing.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: So to me, what it does is instills that idea that I am competing with myself now.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: And it to me, because competition provides you with the reference point, right?
35:18
SPEAKER_01: And so the reference point now is me.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Am I, did I get this double turn?
35:22
SPEAKER_01: Did I get this trick?
35:23
SPEAKER_01: Did I get this skill?
35:24
SPEAKER_01: And then it puts the onus back on being self-aware at the same time.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: It's already implied I'm competing against other people.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: We've already got that.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: That's done.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: But now, because I've got this intentional thought on putting effort towards me, what I'm doing, I think it kind of can feed into what you were um asking about there, Leslie.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's a self-awareness that because I think some people are naturally more competitive than others.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm actually a person that's not, I'm not competitive at all, actually.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: So sometimes I actually can struggle relating to people when they I remember actually my one of my first dance competitions that I, as a teacher, as a choreographer, and one of my dancers, to me, she did great.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: And then we got back to the studio, and one of the other teachers was like, Oh, Susie Q is so mad.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Wow! Like, what happened?
36:10
SPEAKER_01: She was fantastic, she performed beautifully, and then like I'm thinking of all the things we've been working on, like she made this section happen, all these things.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: She was like, Well, she didn't beat Billy Bob.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Billy, you know, not Billy Stuart, we got Susie, we got Sally, we got Billy.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: But and I was just like, Well, that's just really sad because she actually accomplished something.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: There were things that she actually did and did very well, and she couldn't even see that.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: And so after those types of experiences that happened a couple times, I was like, you know what?
36:39
SPEAKER_01: We've got to actually go back and talk about the self now because we're putting so much focus on the outside that all of a sudden you end up feeling bad about yourself when you shouldn't be.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: Walk away from the competition.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: It's okay to be disappointed.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: That's totally fine.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: You didn't be Billy Bob.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: But you know what you did do was this.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: And you can offer that more balanced perspective, I'd say.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I that's why I like doing that, because again, the reference point is there, but then also you have self-responsibility, self-awareness.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that helps.
37:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love the check-in idea individually.
37:11
SPEAKER_02: I know that there's some studios that do like, you know, this the banana split club.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: And if the whole class gets a split, you know, by X time, you know, then we get a blink banana split party.
37:20
SPEAKER_02: But I think holding individuals accountable is better for the individual, you know, because everybody has something different that they want to work towards and need to work towards.
37:29
SPEAKER_02: So I love that idea.
37:31
SPEAKER_03: I think something that you kind of just touched on that I loved too was the not discounting yourself wins.
37:39
SPEAKER_03: Because, like you were saying, no, you didn't like get the highest trophy, but you did make these leaps and bounds, you know, literally or figuratively.
37:47
SPEAKER_03: And I think it's important to acknowledge that, which kind of leads me to the importance of creating affirmations and for everything that you think you need to work on and improve on, that there should be something that you're also giving yourself a pat on the back for.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: Because if you balance it out a little bit more, then it's not just a never-ending like dig at yourself.
38:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:08
SPEAKER_03: And I think that when we're young and we are in training and we are getting corrections all the time because we do need to constantly like improve things, it gets a little shadowed in terms of those positive things that we remember about ourselves.
38:23
SPEAKER_03: So either like focusing on ways to create those self-affirmations, that positive thinking in balance with, okay, this is what I need to keep working on and keep growing on.
38:33
SPEAKER_03: I know these are my strengths, though.
38:35
SPEAKER_03: And and finding that balance too.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: I want to touch on something that is very similar to what you both were saying, and specifically Tracy, with the different goals for you know, the dancer themselves and having that as driving you in that competition way, you know, reaching those goals throughout the season.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: But while you were saying that, I was thinking about flipping it around to like the teachers and the studio owners as well.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like as teachers and studio owners, we I'm not a a studio owner, but you know, as a teacher, if I choreograph something or if I work with the dancers every week, you know, you go to competition, and let's be real, every studio thinks that their dancers are the best.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, you the these are my dancers.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: I've created them, I've seen their progress, they've worked so hard.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: Wow, they've they've improved so much.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm so proud of them.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: But then they don't get the score that they expected to get, or they don't get the adjudication, or they don't get the placement.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: And teachers and studio owners are just as competitive against one another as the kids are in the studio or for themselves or whatever it is.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: So I think that sometimes as judges, we get put into a sticky spot because this the teachers are always gonna think, well, my dancers were better than that.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: So why didn't I get, you know, first place?
39:54
SPEAKER_00: And why did I get second place?
39:56
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we have to step back and say, was this their best performance?
40:01
SPEAKER_00: And if it was, then you have to step back and say, Okay, well, you know what?
40:05
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was just the judges that was the judge's perspective for this one.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: But I think that they've grown so much since the last competition, and I'm so proud of them.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: And second place is awesome.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: Because again, going back to kind of like auditioning and competition, you never know who's gonna show up.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: Just like I said before, it might be fierce, it might be fierce competition at this event, and then your next competition, you might be the fierce competition at at the event.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: You just never know.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: And it's really, it really depends on who shows up that day.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: Just because you got second at this event and you got first at the last doesn't mean that you're you're going downhill with your progress or your training or achievements.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: That's still really awesome.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: So congrats to you.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: But also as a studio, we need to compare from one comp to the next.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Have we made progress?
40:54
SPEAKER_00: Do my dancers look better?
40:55
SPEAKER_00: It's not about the score all the time.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: Because again, let's be real.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: Every competition has a crazy scoring rubric.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: They're all different, they're never the same.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: The adjudications never match.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: So we can't, we can't use that as a comparison.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it ever works, to be completely honest with you.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: No.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: I that is actually something that, again, coming from someone who's not very competitive as a little caveat, but I've never understood why people kind of struggle with that.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: Because to me, it's just very obvious that no competition is the same.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: It's not the same panel of judges, it's not the same standard, it's not the same mindset, it's not the same expectations.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: And so I I honestly struggle understanding sometimes why people can struggle, go from one place to another and not see how just it's just way too many variables.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
41:46
SPEAKER_01: Way too many variables to expect a certain thing every time.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: Because unless like the whole competition industry was exactly the same with their scoring rubrics and their adjudication levels, then I don't feel like you can compare because everybody kind of uses a lot of the same terms like platinum, high gold, diamond, whatever, but that can equal different scoring brackets for each competition.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: So when so when you know parents are in the audience or in the live stream this season watching the award ceremony and you hear your dancer got a high gold, that might be the equivalent to a platinum elsewhere.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: And then you might be confused because they it feels like they gain a lesser award.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: Right.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: And that's not really the case.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: Like even the number system is different as far as where the brackets live.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: So like don't compare the numbers that you get from one comp to the next.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: I just I it would kind of be cool if someone created a competition that didn't have like scores and adjudications and just maybe rankings, and only the the whole world doesn't have to like hear everyone's adjudication because it's confusing anyway.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: But like the dancers can see where they fell, you know, on their score sheet or whatever.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: But we don't need to announce it.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we just have like overalls.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that could be something to come in the world, maybe.
42:59
SPEAKER_03: Your brain goes wandering, creating.
43:02
SPEAKER_02: But I think awards are confusing.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: They are they are confusing, they're completely confusing and discouraging something.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: All that really, all that you really need to be listening to, sorry, competitions, is the adjudication critique.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: Like that is that's where you're getting the usable, hopefully, information.
43:20
SPEAKER_02: You know, and at the same time, you know, yes, we try to look at your whole dance as a whole, but so if we had, you know, this dance happened one week and your judge said, you know, make sure your releve is higher on that pirouette, you don't know who I was looking at.
43:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm hoping to be looking at the whole group, but maybe my eyes were on the first three people.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: And then next weekend you get the same correction, even though more people were in higher releve.
43:43
SPEAKER_02: Like it's just too much to to even it's it's just it's difficult.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I guess my main point is don't let a score determine your worth and your value and your success in your growth of growth as a dancer.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: Because the score is really not that important at all.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: It's the progress that you've made from one event to the next, from one day to the next, from one week to the next.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: That's what's most important.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: And people acknowledging it too.
44:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, the re it's kind of your example, Leslie, like the reassurance on a critique in a perfect world.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I I'm immediately thinking of Diva Dance Competition because they do live feedback at their events.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of really awesome for the judges to be able to give a correction to the dancers at the top of the day.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: And then the dancers come back out.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: And maybe I said make sure your back leg is lengthened in your soda shop.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: And if dancers come out, the back legs lengthen in their soda shop for their second dance.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: And then me as a judge, I'm just the happiest thing ever.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: And I acknowledge them and say thank you so much for taking that correction.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: Like that's a an achievement right there.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: Like that's a that's a progress and a step in the right direction.
44:46
SPEAKER_00: I think that's what we need to look at in the competition world as instead of who won?
44:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, did I win?
44:52
SPEAKER_00: That studio won, I can't believe it.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean yes, there's that competitive nature and we want to win.
44:56
SPEAKER_00: We all want to win but we want to look at the little the little wins within ourselves and within our team and the studios as well.
45:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:05
SPEAKER_02: And I was I'm thinking about sort of the your progress report sort of Tracy idea of of checking in every couple months and thinking about myself when I uh had ankle surgery a couple years ago and I would go to PT and I was you know coming from a boot to crutches to a walking boot to, you know, a brace like kind of that progression of getting better.
45:26
SPEAKER_02: And I would videotape myself pointing and flexing to like see where my range of motion was.
45:32
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a really useful tool for individuals and maybe for studios if you did want to go a step further with that check-in system of being able to compete against yourself.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: Okay, if we're working on you know consistency of my spot in Pirouette videotape yourself you know day one.
45:48
SPEAKER_02: You could do it every single day if you wanted to and then like because some people really like that data.
45:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm not really one of those people but like it's it would be really cool to see your progression of whatever the thing is that you're personally working on.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: So I think yeah some people may might really really benefit from that and especially for the kids and even for adults who maybe have a hard time trusting themselves that they're actually making progress because progress is incremental.
46:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, like we've been saying for the past several episodes everybody wants instant gratification.
46:18
SPEAKER_02: You want the microwave dinner of dance you know steps.
46:22
SPEAKER_02: And and it's hard to see incremental progress.
46:25
SPEAKER_02: It's just hard and even though you know it's happening so to capture it all the way through and then to look at it from day one to day 30, that may be an option for some people.
46:34
SPEAKER_01: And then really what we're talking about here honestly is like managing our mental space.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: And then of course as this teacher and a studio owner I'm managing the mental space of of these young children.
46:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think something that which we've kind of been dancing around but the idea of rejection is what we're kind of talking about too and have a having to be able to manage that.
46:54
SPEAKER_01: So just because you didn't get the scholarship at convention or just because you didn't get the double platinum or just because you didn't get the overall doesn't mean like the judges like hated you.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: That's right they must have hated our dance before and it's like no that's not that that literally is not real.
47:09
SPEAKER_01: You know that's not a thing.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: But I've never even thought to myself I hated that exactly yeah and it's so crazy.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and you have to like and but I'm like telling these kids I'm like baby they didn't hate you.
47:20
SPEAKER_01: That's a really strong we went a long way let's pray back you know what I'm saying like that's really far but um really I think that's kind of a skill that we're trying to like teach kids to like how to manage rejection and rejection isn't saying you're bad rejection is maybe no and that's okay.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: No is fine.
47:39
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's not now that's totally fine too but you don't at the end of the day want to like we were saying before discount the little steps you've made the progress you've made because if you go to the next convention maybe you will get the scholarship or maybe you'll get a call out or maybe you will get the platinum or maybe a judge will notice something.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: So I think that that we're it's important to kind of like talk about that from that perspective as well because rejection is just hard.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: It just is for everybody as a human, you know?
48:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: And then it never is it's never cool.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: It's never fun.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
48:13
SPEAKER_02: Because it it's not that.
48:15
SPEAKER_01: Exactly it's not that it's just okay this is life.
48:18
SPEAKER_01: This is real.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to manage but the goal is kind of like what Rachel said earlier I still have to move forward and I still have to move forward positively.
48:26
SPEAKER_01: So how am I going to make this work for myself as opposed to quitting.
48:29
SPEAKER_03: Right.
48:30
SPEAKER_03: And using it as fuel for your fire instead of putting out your fire.
48:34
SPEAKER_03: You know, if you think of rejection as a bucket of water on your fire, then that's what it's going to be it's going to halt you.
48:40
SPEAKER_03: It's going to keep you where you're at it's going to keep you stagnant not growing not getting better not eventually bettering yourself so that you do achieve that goal that you are getting those higher scores or the convention scholarship or the job you know and I think that using it in that way and changing your mindset about it and saying okay it wasn't this time what was it that I could change what is it that I can continue to work on so that it does happen.
49:05
SPEAKER_03: Maybe not next time, maybe the time after that but eventually and I think again that forward thinking and how you can use it as a tool and not just kind of a knife.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: Right.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and then at that point you're operating in a place of peace no matter what as opposed to like you said like a knife which to me just sounds like stress and anxiety you know that that's not where you want to be on a consistent basis.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: No, it's unsustainable yeah totally.
49:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I I really loved your examples Rachel I think those are spot on and you know we don't we don't realize how much this competition world that we all love so much is really prepping us for adulthood and the real world regardless if you are going to be a dancer a professional dancer let's be real I mean I think that the competition world is is really giving you a taste of what it could be like if you decide to become a professional and if you can't handle the rejection in competition get ready for a lot more in the real world daily daily rejection it's not even a team it is you out there you're the one putting you out there and sometimes you know that's it.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: So you have to like you're you know especially if you're used to competing with a team and imagine the disappointment that you have when you're in a team but when it's you and it's on that you know you're absolutely right Courtney like it is if you can't handle that right girl you don't know what you're thinking to because the I have seen I've witnessed a handful of times dancers who are maybe let's say the star of the studio right they get a lot of features they get a lot of bonus you know they're always in the front they get a turn section they get a this they get a that you can tell that they're one of the stars at the studio.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: So maybe a lot of things get handed to them.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: Maybe a lot of things come naturally to them whatever the case may be at this particular studio with this particular dancer and they don't know anything but success right then they obviously think okay well I've been obviously I'm good at this I'm so I'm so successful at my studio I win at competitions I'm gonna make a career out of this and they think that it's gonna be that easy when they get to the real world and it is absolutely not it is the complete opposite and those dancers cannot handle the rejection.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: They aren't prepped for it.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: They didn't understand or ever learn that because things were handed to them.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: And mo more often than not those dancers give it six months max a year and they have moved on to a new career they're back to school they can't handle it they're back at home.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean not saying that that's bad but I I'm just saying that it we as teachers and educators and studio owners want to make sure that the competition experience is preparing the dancers for what's to come and regardless if they're going to a professional career they need to have even more thicker skin if they're going in that direction because I always say this I'm a professional auditioner not a professional dancer.
52:09
SPEAKER_00: I I say that all the time I I audition more than I actually get paid to dance.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: And that's just the reality of the industry.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: But rejection is a whole big huge part of that process and if you can't handle it then you you really can't be a professional dancer.
52:26
SPEAKER_00: You just can't you have to have thick skin and comp world will prep you for that if you have the support system and the studio that understands you know that as well.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the the kind of the key of it all making sure that that you're at a place that people are actually giving you a balanced perspective because you know obviously no matter where you go there's always going to be people that are more talented than not.
52:49
SPEAKER_01: And I'm quick to put the talented one in the back.
52:51
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: Quick to do it because you're not I mean sure you've got a soul that's fantastic wonderful you're gonna do great I love that but again sometimes we just again to me it's all about the balance because we're we're to me the whole experience is to create a human that knows how to function in the planet as a citizen.
53:09
SPEAKER_01: And so I need you to know all sides and all sides includes not always like you were saying being the front being the star being the feature sometimes you may be in the back.
53:19
SPEAKER_01: Right.
53:19
SPEAKER_02: And that's like I look at you first.
53:20
SPEAKER_02: Just as legit because I look at the back row first as a judge.
53:23
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people don't know that but I I hear so many judges saying that I'm always looking at the background.
53:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah because everybody matters you know everybody counts and I think that's one of the things too you know for everybody to keep in mind is that like just because you're the feature I sometimes don't even watch you.
53:40
SPEAKER_02: I know you're good.
53:40
SPEAKER_02: You you got put in the front for a reason.
53:42
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna look at the girl in the back because she deserves to have somebody look at her too you know and like are you are you pulling it off back there, y'all?
53:49
SPEAKER_00: Because I we're watching like I want to make sure that those flap ball changes are just as strong as the people in the front.
53:56
SPEAKER_00: We have to work as a team in that in that and that's where the again like the competitiveness can come is making sure that we as a team can all stay together and make this happen you know we don't want to outshine another dancer.
54:11
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we have to make sure that we're all dancing collectively as a whole when we're doing group routines and stuff like that.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: But just making sure that we're all at the same level and taking one for the team all together saying you know what I've been off on my timing for that flap ball change section every time we've been in rehearsal but I'm gonna drill it at home until I get that timing perfect so by the time I hit the stage I'm here for my team and we can make this happen.
54:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:35
SPEAKER_00: Teamwork makes the dream work does.
54:41
SPEAKER_00: So many things.
54:42
SPEAKER_03: So I know especially having you know been a professional auditioner and not only that but I I realized I think at a young age when I was in conventions which was truly always my favorite part of a competition weekend was the conventions and getting to learn from different choreographers and it really took that time to also learn from the dancers around me.
55:04
SPEAKER_03: And instead of you know when it came to like the scholarship auditions who was getting pulled up on stage who was winning the scholarships and instead of thinking in the way well they're better than me and I'm not as good and instead of thinking about it that way, it was what are they doing that I can borrow and apply to myself.
55:22
SPEAKER_03: And I think instead of letting comparison be the thief of joy, letting it be something that's gifting you extra right it's like giving you like bonus stars when you get to use comparison in a positive and I always can keep saying positive but truly like if you switch it and you use it as a tool and a resource to help you get better, to help you achieve those goals of whatever it is, if it's getting the scholarship next time or if it's getting the job, what did that person do?
55:53
SPEAKER_03: I mean there's been zillions of times and I'm sure like you know Courtney and Leslie having been in the auditions rooms with me, I've been so inspired by some dancers too.
56:02
SPEAKER_03: And it is like what what is it about them that I'm drawn to or that's getting them the job.
56:08
SPEAKER_03: And instead of being like I don't have that, how can I get that?
56:13
SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's just a a different way to use it.
56:16
SPEAKER_03: I know nowadays it's a little different we can't like sit in the audience and watch because of you know scheduling and the times that we are in but when I encourage that when we are back because we will be eventually to people getting to like mix up and like view different studios and watch other dancers that is such a valuable tool to use.
56:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I'm really I'm really glad you brought that up because and I really love the example of when you know certain dancers maybe pulled out and in a convention setting or whatever it may be, like I feel like as a convention teacher I've I've done that.
56:50
SPEAKER_00: I've been that and I I don't always like to do it because I sometimes I honestly forget because class goes by so fast.
56:57
SPEAKER_00: But other times I I feel like that I don't want to take up time to feature certain people just because I feel like it really needs to be like a learning moment and not just for like the videographer or whatever it is, you know, because I feel like that sometimes is another issue.
57:13
SPEAKER_00: But there have been times where I will pull out dancers and then my question to everyone else I'm like all right we're gonna I'm gonna dance with these dancers or I want I want all of us to watch these dancers what is it about them?
57:25
SPEAKER_00: What what was the reason why why I pulled them out?
57:29
SPEAKER_00: Was it because they had awesome timing?
57:31
SPEAKER_00: Was it because their musicality was on point?
57:33
SPEAKER_00: Do they have fantastic style?
57:34
SPEAKER_00: Were they using their eye contact?
57:36
SPEAKER_00: Each dancer could have a different thing that they brought to the table that that I is the reason that I plucked them out of of a group of hundreds of dancers.
57:45
SPEAKER_00: And that's the hard thing, you know, that does put that competitive drive in in a class setting you sometimes want to be able to turn off that competition aspect to it where you know always being watched and I just want to take class for class.
57:58
SPEAKER_00: Like I know I felt that as a professional taking class and sometimes when we go to Broadway dance center it feels like a competition like who's gonna go to the front is the choreographer watching me oh my God if they watch me and they pull me out then maybe they'll remember me at that next audition and then maybe they'll hire me for a job.
58:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean like that's the competitive brain that we're like is so ingrained into us where sometimes we just like don't even have a chance to turn it off at times.
58:21
SPEAKER_00: So like that's why sometimes when I do teach in convention settings I just want dancers to dance for themselves and not feel like that this is an audition 247 because there are moments for that in the weekend.
58:32
SPEAKER_00: But there and when it can be a learning experience like you said Rachel I think that we as dancers do need to watch and grow from from it and see oh I danced just like that dancer.
58:42
SPEAKER_00: Why did they get pulled out and not me?
58:44
SPEAKER_00: Or whoa, I did not get that musicality right but that dancer is killing it.
58:48
SPEAKER_00: I can't stop watching them you know I I think that we have to like have that team atmosphere a little bit more in class settings in particular because we can learn so much from one another.
58:57
SPEAKER_00: Great point.
58:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and I think that you can do exactly what Rachel said even in like again I've I keep thinking funneling things through my being a studio teacher but I do that in the studio very often sometimes you know we're going across the floor we're doing pirouettes and I'm like okay Suzy Q got this double come on Sally you know what I mean and then it's not you know not comparing like it is comparing but it's not a bad kind of comparing it's it's totally fine to be competitive and compare in the positive way.
59:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay, Sally, come on girl Suzy Q's got it.
59:30
SPEAKER_01: We're together it's a team I need everyone to be able to do this.
59:33
SPEAKER_01: And then honestly I think it's it's important to be able to type to have a type of environment where you're cultivating dancers to be able to help each other.
59:41
SPEAKER_01: And so Suzy Q can encourage Sally motivation to be like okay exactly and so Sally's like okay instead of being like feeling defeatist about it Sally's getting encouragement from Suzy Q.
59:52
SPEAKER_01: And so when Sally nails it, Suzy Q is going to go around pat her on the back give her a high five I think we can kind of like cultivate those type of atmospheres intentionally so that the comparison and the competitiveness is used in a positive way as opposed to being devaluing and being defeatist and being not being able to manage the rejection that we experience so often.
1:00:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I mean that's that's such an important point because I can't I can't tell you how many times I've I've gone to different studios and you know different studios, different habits, also different atmospheres, also different levels of training, whatever it may be, but I've gone to studios where I maybe have highlighted a dancer and said, can you demonstrate this was beautifully done can you please demonstrate that for me because let's be real I'm not going to demonstrate it.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_00: They're doing the side leap do the side leap you know so we do the side leap beautifully let's all watch together and I've literally watched dancers stand with their hands folded across their chest just watching and upset that they didn't get called out to demonstrate the side leap.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah and in and then I've been to other atmospheres where the dancers are like yes girl you go awesome amazing job yeah and you know really supportive encouraging camaraderie at the studio and I think that we need more of that especially when the dancers are going to be doing competitions and cheering for everyone and not just their studio.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_00: I think that's very important.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_00: And the same thing for conventions when we're in a space with multiple dancers from different studios from different places.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_00: We need to be supportive every time and and you know I feel like that that team aspect and the like rejection of I didn't get selected so I'm upset and bitter about it in the corner like we can't have that we have to push through that and that really starts at the studio.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_03: Yay yeah I think it's also important to like you know people want to work with nice people people want to be around nice people and there is yes there's a way to be competitive and still be a nice you know and kind of to your point Courtney about like people like you know pounding in the corner essentially I'm we've been in the same rooms where we are literally all auditioning for the same job.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_03: They're so much beyond our control anyways.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_03: So yes we need that competitive mindset but also keeping perspective and every single person is different.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_03: Every single person has something else to offer that you might not have but you have something else and depending on the day they want you or they want what that other person has.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_03: But that doesn't really matter in the moment in the room and I think it's important to I mean we've literally been in rooms where we've been like yes girl like you nailed that when we're in our small groups or you're like girl they looked at your headshot you absolutely crushed it.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_03: And it's important to hone those supportive skills and those supportive mindsets young because otherwise you're gonna be in the girl in the corner waiting in the holding room that no one wants to talk to because you're nice.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah yeah absolutely but if you're the nice girl and you want you know and you just show up and you do literally you and you do the best that you do then that is a win.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_03: You already won.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_00: Totally oh I love it.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_00: And on that note y'all such a great discussion and and such an important one to be had so I'm really glad we went there with this and I I hope listeners you enjoyed it and definitely make sure we're we're we're listening to this one with our dancers.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_00: I think dancers really need to hear this one.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of dance parents listen put the podcast on on the way to dance class or maybe pop this on on the way to competition next weekend or whenever your next one is but this was a beautiful discussion and so necessary.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_00: So thank you Tracy and Rachel for joining us and if you would both love to take us out with any final thoughts on this topic or any words of encouragement you'd like to send to all the dancers out there.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_01: Well I'll just say that I think it's important to always value yourself period you never want to be in a place or allow yourself to fall in a place where you don't see what you have to offer.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_01: You can compare yourself to others that's fine have the competitive mindset it's healthy but you never want to take it to a place where it ends up stealing from your own personal self.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_01: That's the worst way to steal I think it's it's bad to have somebody come steal your purse but it's even worse if you steal it from yourself.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's sadder.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's important to always always always remember go out of your way what do I have to offer be self-affirming speak positively about yourself speak life over yourself and keep your mindset in that place intentionally forever because it's just going to keep you in a place of peace.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_03: I love that I think besides that I mean I absolutely like did a mean to all of that but remembering that it doesn't have to be black and white in terms of winning or losing I think that you need to change it to a gray because there's a little bit of winning and a little bit of losing in every single thing that we are going to do in our lives dance and outside of dance.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_03: And so keeping that perspective that it's not always a win or a lose.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_03: I mean even in a Super Bowl like you know you know yes maybe they won but like did they play their best game or did the other team maybe just have an off day it doesn't you know you don't really know and the only thing that you can do is control yourself and control how you are going to face your challenges and take on those obstacles and push your own boundaries.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_03: And then I found this quote that I really liked that I thought was appropriate and it just clicked with me.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_03: And so it is success comes not from a single event, but of persistence born of grit and character and I think that if you have grit and you put that into your hard work and your persistence then you're gonna win no matter what you can find Rachel at fuel move sweat and Tracy at T-R-A Boom1.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_02: Have you followed Making the Impact a dance competition podcast yet?
1:06:03
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1:06:08
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SPEAKER_02: Work Dancewear activewear for dreams in motion Making the Impact a Dance Competition podcast is nearing the end of season two stay subscribed for our upcoming episodes with topics including our final spotlight episode, dance pathways and the most common corrections judges give at competition see you next time keep dancing