Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Virginia mom Bellamy Gamboa's missing, her ex is arrested

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Virginia mom Bellamy Gamboa's missing, her ex is arrested · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph. A
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Speaker 1: young mom goes missing. She is absolutely gorgeous. The family
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Speaker 1: begging for help, along with the FBI and Virginia Police.
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Speaker 1: I mean, you see, Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank
0:24
Speaker 1: you for being with us today. We need you now
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Speaker 1: more than ever. Let me just start with the tip
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Speaker 1: line one eight hundred, lock you up, one eight hundred
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Speaker 1: five six to eight eight eight seven. This is urgent.
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Speaker 1: We are on the search for a beautiful young mom,
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Speaker 1: Bellany Gamboa repeat, Bellamy Gamboa, FBI and Virginia Police searching
0:50
Speaker 1: for the missing mom of four. You know, in older
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Speaker 1: sister fashion, Bellamy Gamboa texts her younger sister, Sharise to
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Speaker 1: check in on her, her family, her dog. Bellamy in
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Speaker 1: Virginia Beach, Virginia and Sharice in Orange County. That's California.
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Speaker 1: The sisters live across the country from each other, but
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Speaker 1: are always in touch. Or any of you like that,
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Speaker 1: because I am. I've got my brother and my sister
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Speaker 1: in two different parts of the country. I'm on it everyday.
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Speaker 1: People be in text or phone, so i know everybody's okay.
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Speaker 1: It's not working that way for Bellamy gambo as sister sister.
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Speaker 1: Let's start at the top with me Crime online dot
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Speaker 1: com investigative reporter Lee Egan rightnowned New York psychologist Karen Stark,
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Speaker 1: judge lawyer, founder of child crime watch dot com, Ashley Wilcott, Last,
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Speaker 1: but not least, former cop turned p I Vincent Hill,
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Speaker 1: Lee Egan, how is this unfolding? Just let's start at
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Speaker 1: the beginning, because right now we're getting a break in
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Speaker 1: the case. Let's start, though, at the beginning with Bellamy Gamboa,
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Speaker 1: Hi do I How do I know she's missing in
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Speaker 1: He's not stretched out on Miami Beach getting a tan well,
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Speaker 1: as you said, Nancy, the family talks daily, and on
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Speaker 1: July two, that did not happen. She was not answering
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Speaker 1: her tech, she didn't show up for work, she didn't
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Speaker 1: call nothing. They heard nothing at all. When that happened,
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Speaker 1: the family became concerned and started searching for her. Hold
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Speaker 1: on just a moment, because my brother calls me constantly,
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Speaker 1: Karen's dark, I think you've met him. Um, Actually he
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Speaker 1: doesn't call me constantly, but he does call and says,
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Speaker 1: I called you, I called you, you didn't call me back,
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Speaker 1: and he's right. He's always right. But I make a
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Speaker 1: point to put my phone away, and you know, for
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Speaker 1: hours when I'm with the twins, I try not to
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Speaker 1: even have it around them. And I learned the hard
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Speaker 1: way care And remember when I had cocoa the cap
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Speaker 1: when I would get on my them BlackBerry, he would
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Speaker 1: turn around and walk off. All right, So how do
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Speaker 1: you think it affects children? I learned it from the cat.
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Speaker 1: He would just leave, and so I why not to
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Speaker 1: have it? And my brother is always right. He has
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Speaker 1: called and I haven't seen it and I haven't called back,
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Speaker 1: so he always gets me. You got me? So how Lee,
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Speaker 1: you really got my attention, Not because she wasn't returning
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Speaker 1: text but when she didn't show up for work. Okay,
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Speaker 1: because that's big, Jackie Howard. If you don't show up
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Speaker 1: for work, I'm calling the police and I'm reporting Alan
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Speaker 1: deep Okay, first of all, but back to you, Lee,
3:26
Speaker 1: what do you mean she didn't show up from work?
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Speaker 1: Bellay was the type of person who, even if she
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Speaker 1: was a few minutes late, would call from the elevator
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Speaker 1: to her boss and let her know I'm almost there.
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Speaker 1: She never missed work, never ever, and her employer was
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Speaker 1: so concerned when he didn't hear from her that he
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Speaker 1: actually sent police to her apartment to check on her.
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Speaker 1: So it was a big red flag that she didn't
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Speaker 1: show up to work. You know what they call that,
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Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, judge lawyer found her child crime much dot com.
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Speaker 1: They called that it evidence of routine and I saw
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Speaker 1: it really come to the forefront front in the case
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Speaker 1: of add non sed. You remember him. He was the
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Speaker 1: focus of pod of serial the podcast ps he did it,
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Speaker 1: by the way, But that's a whole anther cannon worms.
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Speaker 1: Cannon worms, uh, because add noned had a rigid routine.
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Speaker 1: He went to school, he got out of school, he
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Speaker 1: had tracked practice and he did this, this, this, and
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Speaker 1: then he went to um services at his UH with
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Speaker 1: his dad and every night. And for him to break
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Speaker 1: out of that routine the one day his girlfriend is killed,
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Speaker 1: that's very unusual. So here that's what we had evidence
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Speaker 1: of routine and that's pardon the pun routinely comes into court.
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Speaker 1: Explain why it's so important, Ashley. It's so important because
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Speaker 1: that is evidence during the investigation to prove that something
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Speaker 1: either happened to someone and that's why they broke routine
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Speaker 1: or that they never had a routine and they're kind
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Speaker 1: of out there doing their things. So it's really imperative
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Speaker 1: because what that indicates in this case is most likely
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Speaker 1: something happened to her because she was not one to
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Speaker 1: break her routine. Vincent Hill, private eye, explain to me,
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Speaker 1: your former cop Nashville p D. Why is it cops
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Speaker 1: always say, and no offense. I'm on your side, okay,
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Speaker 1: unless you track somebody down and beat him in the
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Speaker 1: head or shoot them, all right, But typically I'm on
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Speaker 1: the side of the cops, Vincent White. Cops always say, oh,
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Speaker 1: she's just out with her boyfriend, she'll show up. Why
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Speaker 1: do they do that, Well, mane, because there's nothing illegal
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Speaker 1: about being a missing adult. Because you're an adult, you
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Speaker 1: don't have to be responsible or answer to anyone. Still,
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Speaker 1: there's nothing illegal or suspicious about being a missing adult. Unfortunately,
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Speaker 1: that's always the fault that police go to. But that's
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Speaker 1: the law. Okay, all right, you're right. You got me
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Speaker 1: over the barrel on that one. So Karen Stark when
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Speaker 1: she misses her work, that in my mind starts the timeline.
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Speaker 1: I'm going to backtrack in a minute, but that's the
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Speaker 1: first time we know for sure something is amiss. Well,
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Speaker 1: she's changing with her routine and on top of that,
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Speaker 1: that is the beginning. Nancy. But she is not in
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Speaker 1: touch with her teenage twins and she usually is, and
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Speaker 1: that that is even more telling to me, because you know,
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Speaker 1: you're a mom and the twins are everything to you.
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Speaker 1: She would never miss talking to them before they had
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Speaker 1: a game, and all of a sudden she's gone. She's
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Speaker 1: not in touch with Karen. That speaks more than even
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Speaker 1: missing work that morning, Lee Egan, She's right with me,
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Speaker 1: Lee Egan. Crime Online dot Com invest to get every
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Speaker 1: porter right now. We've got breaking news in the case
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Speaker 1: of missing Bellamy. We have not found Bellamy, though though
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Speaker 1: Bellamy gamboa Lisa, what do we know? We know she
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Speaker 1: wasn't at Worth that Monday morning? What else do we
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Speaker 1: know as to her? The last credible signing credible In
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Speaker 1: other words, I can corroborate it. The last credible sighting
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Speaker 1: was from her. I guess he'd be a former boyfriend.
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Speaker 1: He did see her, but it's unclear when he saw her.
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Speaker 1: His timeline kept changing. Well then that's not credible, so
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Speaker 1: that that's not really helping me. I gotta go with
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Speaker 1: something credible. We know on Friday June she was checking
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Speaker 1: in with her little sister in California. We know that
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Speaker 1: there are screenshots out there of the conversation. We know
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Speaker 1: she was there. Then this mother of four, very tight
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Speaker 1: family bond. Two days later, on Sunday, Schari says, the
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Speaker 1: sisters communicated again on Instagram by liking each other's photos. Now,
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Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, we often hear people getting your cell phone
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Speaker 1: and pretending they're you. I don't really think that would
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Speaker 1: extend to liking your sister's photos. No, absolutely, that makes
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Speaker 1: no sense at all. It just who would do that?
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Speaker 1: Why would they do that? You have to look at
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Speaker 1: everything we know up until this point and the fact
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Speaker 1: that she's disappeared. Nobody has heard from her. She didn't
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Speaker 1: go to work, she broke routine. All of these things
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Speaker 1: are amiss. I cannot believe that someone too take the
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Speaker 1: phone and like the photo. Yeah, that's not Uh. Usually
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Speaker 1: if you're trying to fake being somebody on their phone,
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Speaker 1: you'll send a text message or something over like that. Now,
8:40
Speaker 1: so that gives me lee her aline. I think on
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Speaker 1: Sunday that would be Let see thirty days s September, April, June,
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Speaker 1: and November. So now I'm at July one, July one.
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Speaker 1: I think I am on a Sunday Monday morning July too,
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Speaker 1: she doesn't show up. That starts my timeline right there.
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Speaker 1: I think she was alive on Sunday night. She's not
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Speaker 1: at work on Sunday morning, so Sunday, I wonder what
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Speaker 1: time that was on Sunday, but we know she was alive.
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Speaker 1: I think on Sunday night, Lee aigan. What's the next
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Speaker 1: thing that happens her? She her balls, says she's not
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Speaker 1: there on Monday. The family starts saying, hey, where is she?
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Speaker 1: What about her vehicle? Did she drive to work? Lee?
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Speaker 1: Supposedly she drove to work, But the biggest thing that
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Speaker 1: happened after she didn't show up for work with her teens,
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Speaker 1: she's a team mom on the son's baseball team, and
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Speaker 1: she anytime a game would start, she would text all
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Speaker 1: the teammates and do like an encouraging tweet, say you know,
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Speaker 1: go team, and you know, just get them ready for
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Speaker 1: the game. That never happened, and then that's when the
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Speaker 1: family went into a panic, because that is something that
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Speaker 1: she absolutely would never this now hold on. Let me
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Speaker 1: get this straight. What day was the game? That was
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Speaker 1: on July two? That's Monday, Monday evening. Yes, okay, so
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Speaker 1: that's even that's very strong evidence because she's breaking routine
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Speaker 1: again about her car. What do we know about her vehicle?
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Speaker 1: We think she drives to work, But isn't it true
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Speaker 1: her car was found abandoned to Lee Eagan, what if anything,
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Speaker 1: can you tell me about her car? Okay? So her
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Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen gold Forward Focus was found abandoned.
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Speaker 1: They found it on July three. We're still not sure
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Speaker 1: who took the car there, but it was parked in
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Speaker 1: front of a dumpster and the maintenance and people couldn't
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Speaker 1: get to the trash, so they called in and had
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Speaker 1: it towed and then police picked Actually they found it
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Speaker 1: on July two, and then the police found it in
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Speaker 1: tow and impound on July three. Wow, so that gives
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Speaker 1: me July second again, July two is that Monday. We're
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Speaker 1: back starting the timeline. July two. Her car was there
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Speaker 1: blocking the dumpster, the trash people couldn't get it, and
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Speaker 1: that's how it ends up in in Pound. Then she's
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Speaker 1: reported missing and that's when cops get ahold of it.
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Speaker 1: It was found part next to a dumpster about four
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Speaker 1: miles from where she was last seen. Now this is
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Speaker 1: what we know. We know that a friend of her
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Speaker 1: is Tiffany Hazley says that the location where her car
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Speaker 1: was found is very unusual because it's not anywhere Bellamy
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Speaker 1: would visit, all right, So it's not like she dropped
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Speaker 1: it there and went for a hike or a jog.
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Speaker 1: Somebody took it there. And that Vincent Hill private eye,
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Speaker 1: former cop is very important because they gotta process this
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Speaker 1: car and find fingerprints, hopefully d n a something. What
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Speaker 1: about it, Vincent finding a car by a dumpster? What
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Speaker 1: does that tell you? Yeah, that's very troubling, Nancy. Not
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Speaker 1: only do they have to processs the car, but if
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Speaker 1: I was investigating that snide process that dumpster because usually
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Speaker 1: people don't park their car next to a dumpster because
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Speaker 1: it's trashy as dirty people walk by it. So there
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Speaker 1: could be something in that dumpster that may lead to
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Speaker 1: the discovery of this young mother. There is a financial
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Speaker 1: reward for tips information leading to Bellamy's whereabouts. At this hour,
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Speaker 1: we're still looking for Bellamy, but also breaking news right now,
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Speaker 1: someone has been taken into custody. We know that we
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Speaker 1: still don't know where Bellamy is. Lee Egan, Crime Online
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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, the breaking news. What is it?
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Speaker 1: Bellamy's forty two year old former boyfriend, Lamont Johnson has
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Speaker 1: been arrested for a second degree murder and four counts
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Speaker 1: of contributing to the delinquency or abuse of a child.
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Speaker 1: Oh no, Ashley, Ashley Willcott. We don't have a body.
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Speaker 1: We don't know where she is. She's still missing. But
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Speaker 1: that abuse of the minor charge, what does that tell you? Well,
13:19
Speaker 1: obviously bad news is what it tells me. And we
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Speaker 1: don't know who the victims are of that um child abuse,
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Speaker 1: but all around bad, bad, bad, because not only are
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Speaker 1: we missing a mother, now we know there's some children
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Speaker 1: who he's abused allegedly and is being charged with. You
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Speaker 1: know that, uh Johnson, this guy is the father of
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Speaker 1: gambo Is twin infants. And she had been saying just
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Speaker 1: before her disappearance that she was living in fear. The
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Speaker 1: tipline eight hundred lacke up eight hundred, five six to five,
14:03
Speaker 1: eight eight seven, Please help us find Bellamy Gamboa. It
14:12
Speaker 1: is so hard to work cold cases. Especially when you
14:14
Speaker 1: know your colleagues have already picked the case clean. But
14:17
Speaker 1: there's a former prosecutor named Kelly Siegler who's a true
14:20
Speaker 1: champion for justice on a mission across America. What I
14:24
Speaker 1: love about Oxygen's Cold Justice is that Kelly and her
14:27
Speaker 1: team of detectives take on real unsolved murdered cases and
14:31
Speaker 1: get real answers for victims and their families. You'll love
14:35
Speaker 1: how immersive the show is. You feel like you're right
14:38
Speaker 1: there a writing shotgun with the team. They're passionate crusaders
14:42
Speaker 1: for justice and that's what makes each case so personal
14:46
Speaker 1: to the team. Watch the new season of Cold Justice
14:49
Speaker 1: Saturday at six five Central on Oxygen Crimes Stories with
15:00
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph. A beautiful baby girl
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Speaker 1: goes missing? What happened to Baby Lisa? The disappearance of
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Speaker 1: baby Lisa renee Irwin has mystified the public ever since
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Speaker 1: she goes missing on the early morning hours of October four.
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Speaker 1: Her mom and dad still confounded about what happened to
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Speaker 1: baby Lisa. She had been in her bed when mom
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Speaker 1: checked on her at six forty pm on Monday night,
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Speaker 1: but when dad, Jeremy gets home from work from the
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Speaker 1: night shift on Tuesday. He discovers the front door unlocked,
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Speaker 1: cell phones missing along with baby Lisa. Mommy says she
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Speaker 1: heard nothing with me. Missy res Mussen, writer and co
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Speaker 1: author of upcoming books She's not Here. The Strange Disappearance
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Speaker 1: of Lisa Irwin. Jacqueline Heller, private investigator and co author
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Speaker 1: of that book, She's Not Here. The Strange Disappearance of
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Speaker 1: Lisa Irwin. Dr Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologist and founder
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Speaker 1: of Transformation Products dot Com. Ashley Willcott, juvenile judge, lawyer
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Speaker 1: and founder of Child Crime Watch dot com, along with
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Speaker 1: former cop turned p I Vincent Hill to Jacqueline Heller, Jacqueline,
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Speaker 1: I want to dissect what happened the night baby Lisa
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Speaker 1: goes missing. Now, earlier in the day, Mom was spotted
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Speaker 1: grocery shopping. What can you tell me about that? Um.
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Speaker 1: She was spotted in the store with her brother. They
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Speaker 1: she purchased the box of wine that her in the
16:47
Speaker 1: neighborhood consumed. She had also purchased some diapers. UM Deborah
16:53
Speaker 1: and her brother went home. Jeremy went to work. The
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Speaker 1: brother left UM Samantha, which has been neighbor and Deb
17:01
Speaker 1: were on the porch. Another neighbor came down the street
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Speaker 1: hung out with them. Um. The windness stated that he
17:08
Speaker 1: didn't see any of the kids and then he left
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Speaker 1: the girls. You know, dead one inside turned the neighbor
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Speaker 1: saw her turn the lights off, and dead went to bed. Okay,
17:19
Speaker 1: let me understand the scenario with me. Jacqueline Heller and
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Speaker 1: Missy rest muss and Missy. That day, the mom is
17:28
Speaker 1: caught on surveillance video at a grocery store. She's with
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Speaker 1: her own brother and they're shopping. Do they have the
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Speaker 1: children with them, Missy? No, they are, It's just the
17:39
Speaker 1: two of them. The children are at home with Jeremy, okay,
17:43
Speaker 1: so nothing odd there. They pick up items, including I
17:46
Speaker 1: think it was a box of wine. They come home,
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Speaker 1: Jeremy at some point leaves for his night job. He
17:53
Speaker 1: says the children were all fine at that point, baby
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Speaker 1: Lisa specifically, he leaves and wife Deb and Samantha and
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Speaker 1: another neighbor then go and sit on the front porch
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Speaker 1: and consume one. Do we know, Missy, how long they
18:10
Speaker 1: were out there drinking a while? Um? It was approximately
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Speaker 1: six thirty six forty um when she uh, you know,
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Speaker 1: put Lisa in her crib and the other children are
18:26
Speaker 1: sitting in the living room watching a movie. Um. The
18:29
Speaker 1: neighbor had a child as well who was over there,
18:33
Speaker 1: and they essentially at that time went outside and and started,
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Speaker 1: you know, drinking and talking. What I'm trying to get at,
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Speaker 1: Missy is that, of course, but how long were they
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Speaker 1: there and did not see or hear baby Lisa? Um
18:50
Speaker 1: it was about ten thirty, so good four hours. About
18:57
Speaker 1: ten thirty that um, deb called it a night. Um
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Speaker 1: Sam goes back to her house and witnesses the lights
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Speaker 1: going off at Debb's house. Um Sam continued to stay
19:14
Speaker 1: stay outside UM for a little while longer with the
19:18
Speaker 1: other neighbor, so essentially in in you know, in my opinion,
19:24
Speaker 1: at that time, there were still eyes on that house.
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Speaker 1: But the baby had not been seen or heard from
19:29
Speaker 1: for four hours six thirty to ten thirty, not from
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Speaker 1: any reports that I have seen or read. As she
19:37
Speaker 1: Willcott dodge you don't judge, lawyer and found her child
19:40
Speaker 1: crime watch dot com. Four hours of sitting on the
19:43
Speaker 1: front porch drinking. Um, not judging, don't care. What I
19:49
Speaker 1: care about is baby Lisa. Now. Later the mom said
19:57
Speaker 1: she checked the baby at ten thirty when she went
19:59
Speaker 1: in had the lights off. That story has changed, So
20:04
Speaker 1: I'm trying to establish a timeline here at from six
20:09
Speaker 1: thirty on. If she did not check the baby, the
20:13
Speaker 1: baby was unattended, which means anyone could have come in
20:18
Speaker 1: the house while mommy's on the front porch with the
20:20
Speaker 1: box of wine and taking the baby. I don't know
20:24
Speaker 1: if that's far fetched or not, but it's possible, Ashley,
20:27
Speaker 1: it is possible. You've put all the chronologically together, and
20:31
Speaker 1: it is possible, and it scares the heck out of me,
20:34
Speaker 1: right Like, this is anybody's worst nightmare. You're ten month
20:37
Speaker 1: old disappears in the middle of the night. But you've
20:39
Speaker 1: got six thirty pm until four am, which is a
20:42
Speaker 1: long window to narrow down when it may have happened. Deborah,
20:46
Speaker 1: the mom, says she last saw her daughter at either
20:50
Speaker 1: six forty or ten thirty. The accounts differ Missy Rasmussen
20:56
Speaker 1: and Jacqueline Heller here. They have studied the case very carefully.
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Speaker 1: Jacqueline Heller, I know exactly exactly the last time I
21:07
Speaker 1: saw the twins, Oh exactly. I know the the last
21:11
Speaker 1: time I saw my own children exactly now, let me
21:13
Speaker 1: understand something. Missy has told me that her deb story
21:19
Speaker 1: has changed. Regarding when she saw Lisa. Tell me about
21:24
Speaker 1: that change of story. I think she might have got
21:26
Speaker 1: it confused, you know, being a little bit buzzed. She
21:30
Speaker 1: could have walked by, stood in the doorway. What I
21:33
Speaker 1: think is important is not only the fact that she
21:36
Speaker 1: changed her story, but the fact that she did pass
21:38
Speaker 1: that light detect your test. That's very important. She did
21:41
Speaker 1: pass a lie detector test, and those things are hard
21:43
Speaker 1: to be got. A question for you. Was the baby
21:47
Speaker 1: in the same room as the other children are? Now
21:50
Speaker 1: that's something that we don't know for sure. Well, dot,
21:53
Speaker 1: the mom know what room the baby was sleeping in. Well, apparently,
21:56
Speaker 1: Babe Lisa was sick that night and the mom had
22:00
Speaker 1: dated that she laid her in her crib and then
22:03
Speaker 1: later on, um Lisa was standing up. Debora went back
22:07
Speaker 1: in and tucked her in and went back outside. But
22:11
Speaker 1: in the room where she tucked her in, was she
22:13
Speaker 1: in the room with the other children that they sleep
22:15
Speaker 1: in the same room together. No, Lisa has her own room.
22:18
Speaker 1: So baby Lisa was in her room and the other
22:21
Speaker 1: children were in a separate room. This is what we
22:24
Speaker 1: know that evening um the mother, Deborah was also caring
22:28
Speaker 1: for Lisa's two older half brothers. They were asleep in
22:32
Speaker 1: another room. She admits she had been drinking wine that night.
22:36
Speaker 1: That is not a felony. She admits that she had
22:41
Speaker 1: too much to drink and was drunk. She also says
22:44
Speaker 1: she had taken a prescription medication for anxiety. So you
22:48
Speaker 1: got to take all that into account when her stories
22:51
Speaker 1: get confused. Okay, when she says she saw her in
22:55
Speaker 1: either six thirty or ten thirty, it's gonna be hard
22:59
Speaker 1: for her to remember under those conditions what she saw.
23:02
Speaker 1: We know she is, though there are witnesses with her
23:07
Speaker 1: on the front porch. Vincent, he will probably an investigator.
23:10
Speaker 1: And I find it hard to believe that this mom
23:13
Speaker 1: could have harmed the baby and then gone and sat
23:17
Speaker 1: out and had a box of wine with her neighbors.
23:19
Speaker 1: That's a little hard to believe. I mean, could she
23:22
Speaker 1: have done that, Yes, she could have, but I think
23:26
Speaker 1: having had a lot of wine and the medication, it
23:29
Speaker 1: would have been really hard for her to fake off
23:33
Speaker 1: having killed her baby. I think that would have been
23:35
Speaker 1: very difficult for her to do. It would have been
23:37
Speaker 1: hard to pull off Nancy and and even let's back
23:40
Speaker 1: up earlier in that afternoon. I mean she was out
23:42
Speaker 1: buying diapers for the baby, so that shows she was
23:46
Speaker 1: caring for the baby at some point. So we can't
23:48
Speaker 1: hold the fact that she was out drinking wine against her.
23:51
Speaker 1: Anything could have happened within those four hours that led
23:54
Speaker 1: to Lisa's disappearance. We are talking about the disappearance of
23:57
Speaker 1: a beautiful baby girl, Lisa Irwin. Now it's my understanding.
24:03
Speaker 1: Back to Jacqueline Heller, p I and author. The dad,
24:09
Speaker 1: Jeremy Irwine, is an electrician. He comes home from work
24:12
Speaker 1: around four a m. The next morning. He is the
24:15
Speaker 1: one that discovers Lisa is gone. Is that right, Jacqueline? Yes?
24:20
Speaker 1: And what else does he find in the home? Apparently
24:23
Speaker 1: dead had also taken in a straight kitten that night
24:26
Speaker 1: as well, and the kitten was in the bed with her.
24:30
Speaker 1: Her son. The other little boy had gotten up and
24:32
Speaker 1: went to his room sometime during the night, so we
24:37
Speaker 1: don't know if he had gotten up and went to
24:40
Speaker 1: his bed before Lisa was taken or after she had
24:43
Speaker 1: already disappeared. Joining me right now, the founder of Class
24:47
Speaker 1: Kids Foundation, the survivor of crime, his daughter, beautiful Polly,
24:55
Speaker 1: was taken from their home. Mark Class is joining me,
25:00
Speaker 1: aren't you know? There's been so much controversy surrounding the
25:04
Speaker 1: disappearance of Lisa Irwin. You know the facts. Mommy on
25:09
Speaker 1: the front porch with neighbors for several hours, having a
25:13
Speaker 1: box of wine, also on anti anxiety medication. The dad
25:17
Speaker 1: had gone to work an overnight shift as an electrician.
25:20
Speaker 1: That has been verified. What happened way in Mark Class, Well, Nacy,
25:28
Speaker 1: I've been revisiting this case, as as have many people recently,
25:33
Speaker 1: and I continue to see the mother just in tears.
25:38
Speaker 1: I mean, she's obviously in in the horrible shape. She
25:42
Speaker 1: feels terrible about what happened, and I have to believe
25:45
Speaker 1: from watching her that she had nothing to do with
25:48
Speaker 1: this disappearance. That against all odds, somehow somebody came into
25:52
Speaker 1: this house and took little baby Lisa and she hasn't
25:57
Speaker 1: been seen since. But I really don't believe it's the
26:00
Speaker 1: parents at all. But I do believe the parents made
26:04
Speaker 1: so many critical errors as far as the moving timelines,
26:09
Speaker 1: as far as the people they brought in to help them,
26:11
Speaker 1: as far as their behavior during the entire investigation, that
26:15
Speaker 1: the investigation derailed, and it became about something else entirely.
26:20
Speaker 1: When you say the investigation derailed, what do you mean
26:23
Speaker 1: by that, Mark Lass, Well, listen, they brought in a
26:26
Speaker 1: high priced uh defense attorney from New York City for
26:31
Speaker 1: goodness sake, and also a high profile private investigator from
26:36
Speaker 1: New York City, both individuals who had absolutely no experience
26:40
Speaker 1: with missing child cases, and under the direction of the lawyer,
26:44
Speaker 1: Joe Takapino, their children were not allowed to be interviewed
26:50
Speaker 1: by law enforcement. For goodness sake. These were boys that
26:53
Speaker 1: were in the house when the crime occurred, and for
26:56
Speaker 1: whatever reason, the lawyer is rowing shade of law enforcement
27:01
Speaker 1: by not letting them be part of the interview. So
27:03
Speaker 1: it really became almost about what's going on with these
27:07
Speaker 1: people and and why are they being so uh, why
27:10
Speaker 1: are they being so so so uncoopered, curious and uncoofertive
27:15
Speaker 1: in the way this was being invest Well, you know,
27:17
Speaker 1: you've got two people, ordinary people like all of us,
27:20
Speaker 1: and a high price lawyer comes in from New York
27:23
Speaker 1: City and says, listen, stop talking to the cops. They're
27:25
Speaker 1: looking at you. Well, of course they're looking at the
27:28
Speaker 1: mother and father. Mark Class because that's where you always
27:32
Speaker 1: start looking. But Mark, just pretend you're not here for
27:35
Speaker 1: a moment. To Ashley Wilcott, child Crime watch dot com,
27:40
Speaker 1: I always hold up Mark class as the goal standard.
27:44
Speaker 1: When Polly went missing, he says, search my place, search
27:48
Speaker 1: my office, search my car. He practically laid on the
27:51
Speaker 1: courthouse steps, demanding that cops do whatever they wished with
27:56
Speaker 1: him so they could look for Polly and rule him out.
28:00
Speaker 1: He did not hire a lawyer and refused to speak
28:03
Speaker 1: to cops. On the other hand, ash these people, I mean,
28:08
Speaker 1: when you have a high price lawyer saying stop talking
28:11
Speaker 1: to cops right now, they're gonna do it. Of course
28:15
Speaker 1: they are. It looked horrible at the time, Ashley, it
28:19
Speaker 1: does look horrible. I agree with you, and I you
28:22
Speaker 1: never know what you're gonna do unless God forbid you're
28:25
Speaker 1: in this horrific, tragic situation. But I agree with you.
28:29
Speaker 1: You are not going to lawyer up and not talk
28:32
Speaker 1: and not share information. Instead, what you're gonna do is say,
28:36
Speaker 1: come in, do everything you can. I've got to find
28:39
Speaker 1: my child. I've got to find my child. And why
28:42
Speaker 1: would a lawyer say don't talk to the police. That's
28:44
Speaker 1: my other piece. I mean, it just doesn't add up.
28:47
Speaker 1: It bothers me to Mark class Mark. When Polly first
28:52
Speaker 1: went missing, Um, you went through pure hell and you
28:57
Speaker 1: you stayed in hell for years and years and years.
29:01
Speaker 1: But at the time, what did police, How do police
29:04
Speaker 1: treat you when Polly went missing? Well, they were pretty
29:07
Speaker 1: upfront with me, Nancy. They were very good. They told
29:09
Speaker 1: me that I would be a person of suspicion until
29:13
Speaker 1: I was able to eliminate myself, and that the best
29:16
Speaker 1: way to do that was to talk to law enforcement
29:20
Speaker 1: and answer all of their questions, which I was more
29:22
Speaker 1: than happy to do. Another thing they did, which I
29:25
Speaker 1: think was really beneficial, is they gave me my own
29:28
Speaker 1: um liaison with law enforcement. It was it was. There
29:32
Speaker 1: were actually two of them. There was Mike Meets, the
29:34
Speaker 1: great detective who has since passed, and Eddie Fryer, the
29:38
Speaker 1: local FBI agent who was available to me at all
29:41
Speaker 1: times and was very upfront with me. Um answered all
29:45
Speaker 1: of my questions, told me when he thought I would
29:48
Speaker 1: be interfering in the investigation, and by that I mean
29:51
Speaker 1: bringing him endless tips from from psychics. UM. As far
29:55
Speaker 1: as what that lawyer did to Baby Lisa's parents, by
30:00
Speaker 1: telling them not to cooperate with the police, as he
30:03
Speaker 1: had a whole different focus. Their focus should have been
30:06
Speaker 1: bringing baby Lisa home. The lawyer's focus is protecting baby
30:10
Speaker 1: Lisa's parents. So you're an absolute odds there as to
30:14
Speaker 1: what exactly you're going to accomplish through this investigation. And unfortunately,
30:20
Speaker 1: because he was high profile, because somebody else was paying
30:23
Speaker 1: for him, because he was surrounded by reporters, I guess
30:27
Speaker 1: the parents listened to him and decided to follow his
30:30
Speaker 1: advice as opposed to their own gut feeling. You make
30:33
Speaker 1: an excellent point. However, when deb took her light detector test,
30:39
Speaker 1: the police department knew that she had passed, and instead
30:42
Speaker 1: of you know, moving on to the next lead and
30:45
Speaker 1: and you know, clearing the parents of their involvement, they lied,
30:48
Speaker 1: and they hounded and they harassed the Crimes against Children
30:52
Speaker 1: Division who was who was handling Lisa's case in two
30:55
Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen, several of them were suspended or fired
31:00
Speaker 1: to their inability to work cases. Jacqueline Heller, private investigator
31:04
Speaker 1: and author of the upcoming book about Lisa, when pointing out,
31:08
Speaker 1: you know the inner workings of police at this time,
31:11
Speaker 1: Vincent Hill private investigator, former cop. Now, we were talking earlier, Jacqueline,
31:16
Speaker 1: Missy and I about the mom having had a box
31:22
Speaker 1: of wine on anti anxiety meds on the front porch,
31:26
Speaker 1: with witnesses placing her there for several hours, the capability
31:31
Speaker 1: she may or may not have had to to form
31:33
Speaker 1: a lie about baby Lisa. I find it hard to
31:37
Speaker 1: believe that a mom could have a box of wine
31:40
Speaker 1: and on meds and keep up a lie for hours
31:43
Speaker 1: on in with neighbors, knowing that her baby is dead inside.
31:47
Speaker 1: I find that hard to believe. Vincent, agree or disagree?
31:50
Speaker 1: I agree, Nancy. I mean, it just would have been
31:53
Speaker 1: hard to pull that off. And I understand why investigators
31:57
Speaker 1: initially looked at the parents, because there are at least
31:59
Speaker 1: some they're they're closest to the scene. They said, all
32:02
Speaker 1: you've been out drinking. How do we know you're drinking?
32:05
Speaker 1: There's this time descripancy. But after she was cleared via
32:09
Speaker 1: the lie detective tests, the biggest gap here was that
32:12
Speaker 1: investigators didn't move on the continued to look at the mother. Well,
32:16
Speaker 1: you can't rely on a lie detector alone. Um, there's
32:21
Speaker 1: a reason they're not allowed in court. And I agree
32:24
Speaker 1: with the cops on this. I don't think that they
32:26
Speaker 1: should have dropped it looking at the parents just because
32:30
Speaker 1: she passed a live detector test. However, if her story
32:34
Speaker 1: is corroborated and there's no evidence to support she harmed
32:38
Speaker 1: the baby, I certainly don't think the moms should have
32:41
Speaker 1: been harassed. Hold on Dr Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologist,
32:45
Speaker 1: once in Why You Dr. Chloe, Well, Nancy, I actually
32:48
Speaker 1: differ with you on the idea regarding alcohol and medication. Um.
32:53
Speaker 1: I think that if a person is drinking and using
32:57
Speaker 1: drugs a lot of times, that's actually uh part of
33:00
Speaker 1: what we called dissociative behavior, which means that they're actually
33:04
Speaker 1: trying to dull their nerves or dull their awareness, or
33:08
Speaker 1: maybe act in a little bit of a dazed manner
33:10
Speaker 1: kind of take the edge off a little bit. Um. Also,
33:14
Speaker 1: as far as being seen purchasing diapers, I mean, you know,
33:18
Speaker 1: just to kind of be the devil's advocate here, you
33:21
Speaker 1: could also deliberately be seen purchasing diapers in order to
33:26
Speaker 1: you know, demonstrate a future oriented mindset regarding your child.
33:32
Speaker 1: So I wouldn't really read too much into those particular events. Well,
33:36
Speaker 1: you know, hold on just a moment, let's talk about
33:39
Speaker 1: the hard events that we have. Is it true, too,
33:44
Speaker 1: Jacqueline Heller that a cadaver dog reportedly smelled or hit
33:52
Speaker 1: on an unusual scent, a cadaver dog in the parents bedroom,
33:57
Speaker 1: and were there burnt baby cloth was found in a
34:01
Speaker 1: neighborhood dumpster. And yes, the dentster fire, there was baby
34:06
Speaker 1: clothes the Irwin's um. And you know we're questioned about
34:10
Speaker 1: the baby clothes. They stated they were not Lisa's um.
34:13
Speaker 1: For the cadaver dog hit, Missy, go ahead and tell
34:17
Speaker 1: her about the cadaver dog. Yes, I mean that was
34:20
Speaker 1: a cadaver dog hits in the bedroom. As far as
34:23
Speaker 1: we know, there have been no follow up. Well, wait
34:25
Speaker 1: a minute, for a cadaver dog to hit, that's a
34:29
Speaker 1: really big deal. For a cadaver dog that hits only
34:33
Speaker 1: on dead human remains, that's a really big deal for
34:39
Speaker 1: a cadaver dog to hit in the parents bedroom. No,
34:41
Speaker 1: I agree with you. So I think we need to
34:44
Speaker 1: read thank your client. Police quote harassed the parents after
34:49
Speaker 1: a cadaver dog hits in their house. I guess they
34:51
Speaker 1: did keep up the investigation. Well, we don't know if
34:54
Speaker 1: if someone passed away in the house before they moved in.
34:57
Speaker 1: You know, there could have been another resident who lived
34:59
Speaker 1: in the house, because I do believe that it was
35:01
Speaker 1: a rental and you know, they could have hit on
35:05
Speaker 1: something that somebody that had previously lived there and passed away.
35:08
Speaker 1: You have any evidence at all to support that theory anything? Well,
35:12
Speaker 1: we've been trying to make contact with the parents. They haven't.
35:15
Speaker 1: You know, we want to bring our own kidaver dog team.
35:18
Speaker 1: I do have a team that is ready to go.
35:21
Speaker 1: Not My question is, do you have any evidence to
35:24
Speaker 1: support your theory that you just disposed that maybe in
35:29
Speaker 1: the past somebody else rented the home and died in
35:32
Speaker 1: that room. Well, that's something that I want to talk
35:35
Speaker 1: to the parents about. I don't have it yet. Okay
35:38
Speaker 1: to Mark Class, founder of Class Kids Foundation, what do
35:42
Speaker 1: you make of that, Mark, Well, we already know that
35:46
Speaker 1: that the local law enforcement agency was in confident. I
35:49
Speaker 1: don't believe. One of your guests just said that many
35:51
Speaker 1: of them were just released from from that particular squad.
35:55
Speaker 1: I always believe and I always say that when you
35:58
Speaker 1: have these kinds of situation is when children have been kidnapped,
36:01
Speaker 1: particularly out of their home for goodness sake, you need
36:04
Speaker 1: to bring the FBI in. And you need to bring
36:06
Speaker 1: the FBI in because they do have the expertise, they
36:09
Speaker 1: do have the resources. They work these kinds of cases
36:13
Speaker 1: on a regular basis, and they know exactly what they're doing.
36:16
Speaker 1: And I don't think oversights like this would have occurred
36:19
Speaker 1: had they been more active or even active in the investigation.
36:23
Speaker 1: And then I guess one wants to know if if
36:26
Speaker 1: they if other dogs were brought in to corroborate what
36:29
Speaker 1: the first dog hit on. Well, we've got a whole
36:32
Speaker 1: another cannon worms to open mark class, and that is
36:35
Speaker 1: the siding of a man in the neighborhood with a
36:40
Speaker 1: baby that very not And if that siding is true,
36:45
Speaker 1: then the mom the dad are exonerated. What do we know,
36:50
Speaker 1: if anything, about that guy, Missy Restmus, And what do
36:55
Speaker 1: we know about the siding of an unrelated male in
36:59
Speaker 1: the neighborhood that evening carrying a baby? Um? Well, there
37:03
Speaker 1: are actually two sightings of a man carrying a baby. UM.
37:09
Speaker 1: The first one was that approximately UM twelve fifteen, Tuesday morning, UM,
37:17
Speaker 1: there was a couple who lived UM in the neighborhood.
37:21
Speaker 1: The man was leaving for work, he noticed a man
37:24
Speaker 1: walking down the street holding a baby. Um. He told
37:28
Speaker 1: his wife. His wife continued to they thought it was odd.
37:33
Speaker 1: She continued to watch from the window. UM. And later,
37:39
Speaker 1: at approximately UM four o'clock in the morning, a man
37:45
Speaker 1: writing a motorcycle noticed a man with a baby. The
37:49
Speaker 1: description of the man with the baby is the same
37:52
Speaker 1: both of these witnesses. UM. So he's seen and the
37:58
Speaker 1: man on the motorcycle remembered it distinctly because he thought
38:04
Speaker 1: it was chili. The baby wasn't wearing anything but a diaper,
38:08
Speaker 1: and he remembered thinking I could offer them a ride
38:13
Speaker 1: if I weren't on my motorcycle. And so those were
38:17
Speaker 1: the two sightings, um four hours apart from each other.
38:22
Speaker 1: So if they're the same man, I don't know. If
38:25
Speaker 1: it's the same baby, I don't know, but I mean
38:28
Speaker 1: they're likelihood. To Ashley Willcott of there being two different
38:32
Speaker 1: men in the neighborhood fitting the same general description carrying
38:36
Speaker 1: the same baby, I mean, it's it's astronomically unlikely. It is,
38:42
Speaker 1: and I would be on that so fast because it
38:45
Speaker 1: is unlikely and that could have been their baby. It's
38:50
Speaker 1: it's a little um boggling to me why there wasn't
38:53
Speaker 1: a real urgency around all of these different pieces by
38:56
Speaker 1: the family, by the parents. We parents aren't investigators. It's
39:00
Speaker 1: not about the parents. It's about law enforcement and their
39:03
Speaker 1: ability to get to the bottom of what happened here.
39:06
Speaker 1: Ten month old baby Lisa last seen in her crib,
39:09
Speaker 1: according to her mother, then she simply vanished. Even to
39:14
Speaker 1: this day, Lisa's parents still insists that they believe their
39:17
Speaker 1: daughter is alive. Now. Police originally zero in on the mom,
39:25
Speaker 1: Deborah Bradley, as a possible suspect, but the parents now
39:29
Speaker 1: say they hold no grudges against the police. Why do
39:33
Speaker 1: they focus on her? The dad, Jeremy, at work as
39:37
Speaker 1: an electrician on an overnight shift, the mom drinking on
39:40
Speaker 1: the front porch with neighbors the night baby Lisa goes mincing.
39:45
Speaker 1: She eventually tells cops she didn't remember she checked on
39:49
Speaker 1: the baby when she went to bed around ten forty
39:52
Speaker 1: That starts our timeline when the baby was last seen
39:57
Speaker 1: by her at sixt reminder, she has passed a lie
40:03
Speaker 1: detect her test. Now, let me understand that Jacqueline Haller,
40:09
Speaker 1: did anyone else see the baby at six forty pm?
40:12
Speaker 1: Other than the mother. Nothing I'm aware of. No, the
40:17
Speaker 1: boys and the boys' statements whenever they might have told police,
40:21
Speaker 1: they have not been made public. So if the boys
40:23
Speaker 1: have said that they've seen her, that information has not
40:26
Speaker 1: been released. The moment Jeremy Irwin gets home at for
40:30
Speaker 1: a m he says he finds the front door unlocked
40:33
Speaker 1: and Lisa missing from her crib. He immediately calls nine
40:37
Speaker 1: on one. Now here's another fact. To private investigator, former
40:41
Speaker 1: cop Vincent Hill, the family reports three of their cell
40:45
Speaker 1: phones were also missing from the home. Nothing else was taken.
40:49
Speaker 1: What does that mean, Nanthew? Could mean that whoever did
40:51
Speaker 1: this didn't want the family to have any outside communication,
40:54
Speaker 1: at least for a while until they got out of
40:56
Speaker 1: the area. You know, it's unclear why those were taken,
40:59
Speaker 1: but that we can only speculate that that could have
41:01
Speaker 1: been one of the reasons. Now, this is what we
41:03
Speaker 1: know about the missing cell phones. They were paying close
41:07
Speaker 1: to the Irwin home and they were accessed throughout the
41:13
Speaker 1: night Lisa went missing. What does that really mean? They
41:17
Speaker 1: were accessed throughout the night that Lisa went missing to
41:23
Speaker 1: missy rest Musa. What does that mean they were pinged
41:26
Speaker 1: throughout the night they were UM paying that night, UM.
41:33
Speaker 1: And after that night there was no more you know, um,
41:38
Speaker 1: you know contact with those phones. UM. And there were
41:43
Speaker 1: numerous attempts through the evening, UM to access the voicemail,
41:49
Speaker 1: to access the internet, and to make okay, hold on,
41:53
Speaker 1: wait a minute, Wait a minute, Wait a minute. So
41:55
Speaker 1: somebody during the night, and this isn't I that the
42:00
Speaker 1: mom says she's asleep, the dad's at work, someone was
42:05
Speaker 1: accessing the voicemail or trying to access the voicemail, attempting
42:10
Speaker 1: to attempting to Yes, the phones were did they get in?
42:15
Speaker 1: They were only suspended service Jacqueline heller Way in the
42:18
Speaker 1: phones were they attempted to but there was like a
42:21
Speaker 1: restriction due to non payment, where the phones could receive
42:25
Speaker 1: a phone call, but they could not call out. Okay,
42:27
Speaker 1: So somebody was trying to get into the voicemail of
42:31
Speaker 1: the phones. So are you telling me you could call
42:34
Speaker 1: the phone itself and leave a message, or you could
42:39
Speaker 1: you could not use the You could call the phone
42:40
Speaker 1: and the person could answer, but the person could not
42:43
Speaker 1: make an outgo and call on the phone due to
42:46
Speaker 1: being suspended for non payments. So let me understand this.
42:48
Speaker 1: You're saying somebody tried to get into the voicemail and
42:52
Speaker 1: could not, or they did get into the voicemail, they
42:54
Speaker 1: did not, they attempted, and it was they did not
42:57
Speaker 1: were not able to get to see That's infusing to me,
43:01
Speaker 1: Mark Class because why would anybody else want to listen
43:04
Speaker 1: to the mom's voicemail? Well, it's confusing to me as well.
43:09
Speaker 1: I think one thing it tells us, though, that this
43:12
Speaker 1: is not an international conspiracy and this is not a
43:15
Speaker 1: criminal mastermind. That whatever happened to little baby Lisa originated
43:20
Speaker 1: in and around that community itself. That it may have
43:24
Speaker 1: been a crime of well it wasn't a crime of opportunity,
43:27
Speaker 1: but it uh, it may have been planned out to
43:30
Speaker 1: some level. But we're not talking about rocket scientists here,
43:34
Speaker 1: and there should have been enough information to be able
43:37
Speaker 1: to move this investigation forward more quickly than it has.
43:41
Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out what they mean by the
43:44
Speaker 1: cell phones were pained throughout the night around the Irwin home.
43:52
Speaker 1: What does that mean, Jacqueline Heller. The fans are paying
43:56
Speaker 1: less than a mile and a half away from the
43:58
Speaker 1: Irwin's home, so we know when the phones were taken.
44:01
Speaker 1: They weren't taken very far because they were pinned one
44:04
Speaker 1: point one miles away from the Irwin's house. Wow, that
44:07
Speaker 1: is very precise. We also know police issue an amber
44:12
Speaker 1: alert very quickly, releasing pictures of Lisa are big blue
44:16
Speaker 1: eyes staring at the camera. Cops combed fields near the home,
44:21
Speaker 1: they drained wells, They even searched neighbors homes looking for Lisa.
44:26
Speaker 1: The media immediately became involved in information was coming out daily,
44:32
Speaker 1: the pinging information the cadaver dog now one tip provoked
44:38
Speaker 1: a lot of interest in regarded a handyman named Jersey Joe.
44:42
Speaker 1: He had a criminal record, He worked in the neighborhood.
44:46
Speaker 1: To Jacqueline Hellard, what did we learn about John Jersey
44:50
Speaker 1: Joe Tanko. He was a handyman. He worked odd jobs
44:54
Speaker 1: for cash in the neighborhood. He was staying at a
44:57
Speaker 1: house around the corner from the Irwin's. He was ten
45:00
Speaker 1: to um that homeowners one um. In two thousand and nine,
45:04
Speaker 1: he had a classy felony burglary for which she was
45:08
Speaker 1: incarcerated for three years. And in two thousand and eleven
45:13
Speaker 1: he was um incarcerated for five years for tampering with
45:16
Speaker 1: the motor motor vehicle registration like get I think, like
45:19
Speaker 1: changing the plates or something like that. But he's he
45:23
Speaker 1: was cleared. As the fact that he was cleared, I
45:25
Speaker 1: think because he did not match the description of the
45:28
Speaker 1: guy saying carrying the baby. We also know Jeremy the
45:32
Speaker 1: father says he finds a pushed in windows screen at
45:36
Speaker 1: the front of the home. To Vincent Hill, private investigator,
45:40
Speaker 1: that is significant to me. The door is a lot.
45:42
Speaker 1: The window screen at the front of the home is
45:44
Speaker 1: pushed in. Mommy passes a line detector test. We've got
45:48
Speaker 1: to start our timeline at six forty. She doesn't know
45:51
Speaker 1: whether she checked on the baby before she went to
45:53
Speaker 1: bed or not, So the timeline must start at six forty,
45:56
Speaker 1: when she is visibly on the front porch and the
46:00
Speaker 1: husband is gone and the baby is alone in the home.
46:03
Speaker 1: I personally think, since the mom has been apparently cleared,
46:09
Speaker 1: that baby Lisa's kidnap happened after the mom went to sleep. Vincent,
46:14
Speaker 1: But I want to go back to that pushian screen.
46:16
Speaker 1: What about it, Vincent? Yeah, it's highly suspicious, Nancy, But
46:19
Speaker 1: I would actually say the timeline needs to go back
46:21
Speaker 1: even a little bit before, just so you can capture anything,
46:26
Speaker 1: because what I would do as an investigator, talked to neighbors,
46:29
Speaker 1: did you see anyone around the home at that time?
46:31
Speaker 1: Even the neighbor she was on the porch drinking with Hey,
46:34
Speaker 1: did you see anything suspicious? You know, in the six
46:38
Speaker 1: o'clock time frame six thirty, So you gotta take that
46:41
Speaker 1: time frame a little further back so you can get
46:43
Speaker 1: the whole picture. We are looking back over the evidence
46:46
Speaker 1: and where you're learning about a police affidavit that explains
46:51
Speaker 1: why investigators removed carpet from the home, brought in equipment
46:58
Speaker 1: to X ray the walls and the floors, spent hours
47:05
Speaker 1: digging in the home's backyard, and restricted news helicopters from
47:11
Speaker 1: videotaping overhead. Court affidavit's point to a search that took
47:17
Speaker 1: place two days before, a sixteen hour search. During that search,
47:24
Speaker 1: investigators find a garden area with portions of dirt having
47:28
Speaker 1: an appearance of recently being disturbed or overturned. This after
47:33
Speaker 1: an FBI cadaver dog was brought into the home with
47:38
Speaker 1: the family's consent and hit on the scent of a
47:42
Speaker 1: dead human in an area of the Bradley's bedroom floor
47:49
Speaker 1: near the bed items were taken from the home, including
47:54
Speaker 1: a comforter, purple shorts, a glow worm toy, a blanket
48:00
Speaker 1: from the Cars movie, rolls of tape, a Disney t shirt,
48:05
Speaker 1: a tape dispenser. We know that all of that happened,
48:11
Speaker 1: contrary to what we've been told about a shotting investigation.
48:17
Speaker 1: This is what the affidavits show Mark Class. One of
48:21
Speaker 1: the things that really complicates this nancy is the fact
48:24
Speaker 1: that when children are kidnapped from their homes, they're almost
48:28
Speaker 1: always middle They're all always middle school aged girls, and
48:33
Speaker 1: they're taken for reasons of sexual perversion. The idea that
48:37
Speaker 1: somebody's going to take a little one year old baby
48:41
Speaker 1: and everything that goes around that a child that totally
48:44
Speaker 1: needs seven care is rather hard to fathom unless the
48:51
Speaker 1: baby was being taken um to give to somebody who
48:54
Speaker 1: felt they needed a baby, or perhaps a person that
48:57
Speaker 1: took itself that But nothing adds up, You know, nothing
49:02
Speaker 1: adds up in this investigation. Well, I can't get away
49:06
Speaker 1: from uh completely unrelated witnesses observing a man carrying a
49:13
Speaker 1: baby that day in the neighborhood, and that baby has
49:17
Speaker 1: never been able to be tracked. I can't ignore that.
49:21
Speaker 1: I also cannot ignore a cadaver dog hitting in the home.
49:25
Speaker 1: So those are two very different scenarios. But again, you know,
49:31
Speaker 1: what what do you what emphasis do you place Ashley
49:34
Speaker 1: Willcot on the fact mob did pass that lie detector
49:38
Speaker 1: I do believe in lie detector tests, so that's great
49:41
Speaker 1: that she passed it, but it, you know, it also
49:43
Speaker 1: boils down to what exactly did they ask in that test,
49:46
Speaker 1: where there are questions that were unasked, or does she
49:49
Speaker 1: know pieces of information they neglected to ask about. I
49:52
Speaker 1: think you have to look at the details of that.
49:54
Speaker 1: The other thing is I'm gonna agree with Mark absolutely
49:57
Speaker 1: somebody knows what happened. Somebody knows the situation, and often
50:01
Speaker 1: on cold cases, eventually someone says something. That's how we
50:05
Speaker 1: find out what really happens to these kids. I think
50:08
Speaker 1: that could happen in this case. We don't know what
50:10
Speaker 1: all she was asked on that lie detector test. So
50:12
Speaker 1: we also know to Dr Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologists
50:15
Speaker 1: that the parents, the mother and the father, both signed
50:19
Speaker 1: consent forms to allow searches of their home, their shed,
50:23
Speaker 1: their cars, their work van, their computer, their camper, that
50:28
Speaker 1: they gave police access to their property. You know, very
50:31
Speaker 1: often families don't do that, they don't let people search
50:36
Speaker 1: their property or their homes, and that immediately makes me suspicious.
50:39
Speaker 1: In this case, they did allow police to do all
50:42
Speaker 1: of that. Well, that's true, I mean there's I think
50:45
Speaker 1: that's partly what's so confusing about the situation is because
50:49
Speaker 1: they're there do seem to be maybe some mixed signals
50:52
Speaker 1: um and the part of the parents, But like you said, Nancy,
50:55
Speaker 1: it would be a total road flag. It would make
50:57
Speaker 1: anybody completely suspicious if the parents refused to allow that search.
51:03
Speaker 1: So I would consider that, as you're saying, really kind
51:06
Speaker 1: of just a basic display of collaboration. That's really about
51:10
Speaker 1: all I would read into that personally. What about him
51:13
Speaker 1: our class? Well, I think she's exactly right, and they
51:16
Speaker 1: made so many mistakes in the way that they dealt
51:19
Speaker 1: with this, both publicly in the media and with law enforcement,
51:23
Speaker 1: that suspicion is going to just continue to fall back
51:25
Speaker 1: on them, although I think at this point in time
51:28
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that they are not responsible for the
51:30
Speaker 1: disappearance of their own child. And I also want to
51:33
Speaker 1: point out that some of the as you call them,
51:35
Speaker 1: mistakes were at the advice of a lawyer, a lawyer
51:39
Speaker 1: telling them, Hey, they're looking at you. They think you
51:43
Speaker 1: harm the baby. You better clam up unless you want
51:47
Speaker 1: to go to jail for life. You're gonna get framed
51:49
Speaker 1: on this. I mean, when you come up on two
51:52
Speaker 1: ordinary working class people like all of us, and you've
51:55
Speaker 1: got a high price lawyer telling you to be quiet,
51:59
Speaker 1: you do it. I mean, am I missing something in
52:02
Speaker 1: that scenario? To Ashley Wilcott, I don't think you are
52:05
Speaker 1: at all. The search for baby Lisa goes on Mark Class,
52:11
Speaker 1: founder of Class Kids Way, and where do you think
52:16
Speaker 1: the investigation stands now? Well, it's an open investigation and
52:20
Speaker 1: hopefully it hasn't gone totally cold. I agree with the
52:25
Speaker 1: parents that baby Lisa could still very much be alive.
52:28
Speaker 1: The idea that somebody would take a little one year
52:31
Speaker 1: old girl simply to murder her is very, very difficult
52:36
Speaker 1: to fathom on any level. And we have to remember Um,
52:40
Speaker 1: we have to remember Elizabeth Smart, we have to remember J. C. Dugard,
52:44
Speaker 1: we have to remember Mitchy Sanchez, those girls that were
52:47
Speaker 1: taken and after an extended period of time, we're found
52:50
Speaker 1: and we're brought back home. Hopefully the new age progression.
52:54
Speaker 1: Picture that was just put out is going to jar
52:57
Speaker 1: somebody's memory and help us bring this case to the
53:00
Speaker 1: resolution that everybody hopes, which is a reunification of little
53:04
Speaker 1: baby Lisa with her family. That is the prayer of
53:07
Speaker 1: all of us. Take a listen to Baby Lisa's parents
53:12
Speaker 1: just in the knees. I just picture holding her and
53:18
Speaker 1: getting to know her, um, letting her get to know us,
53:24
Speaker 1: and catching up and bringing our family back together. She's
53:31
Speaker 1: got to be out in public at some point. Somebody's
53:34
Speaker 1: gonna see something that doesn't quite add up, and I
53:37
Speaker 1: hope that that's, you know, what makes them make the
53:41
Speaker 1: phone call and brings Lisa home. There is still a
53:44
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollar reward for information leading to the
53:49
Speaker 1: recovery of Baby Lisa. Tipline eight one six four seven
53:54
Speaker 1: four tips t i PS repeat eight one six four
53:58
Speaker 1: seven four eight four seven seven. Nancy Grace Crime Stories
54:03
Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye friend,