Latest / Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!! / Psychedelics for focus & emotional regulation
Transcript
- Pete: Welcome to the next exciting episode of Pete for Exciting. My guest today is a former attorney turned high performance psychedelic coach who teaches women how to use psychedelics as tools for focus, emotional regulations, sustainable success. Please welcome in the one and only Julie. it Savon? Is that how you say your last name? Okay. Well, close enough. Anyways, Julie. you so much for being here. Julie actually comes in from our good friend, Melissa from Emotionally Unavailable. So we're so excited to have you here today. So why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself? Ever wish you had someone to talk to anytime, anywhere, matter what you're going through? Meet PsychPAL, your 24-7 AI companion, designed to help you process your thoughts, calm your mind, and keep you moving forward. Chat anytime during a panic attack on a restless night or just when you need to vent. Prefer talking instead of typing? Try voice journaling. PsychPAL listens, transcribes, and truly understands. You can even upload screenshots of tough conversations, and it'll help you unpack how they made you feel. PsychPAL keeps life organized, too. Julie: Simone. peter: Show ⁓ Julie: Yeah, well, first of all, thank you so much for having me excited to have this conversation with you today. see. ⁓ my dad used to be an attorney, right? I think I used I lived a very typical life or what was expected of me. I think that was sort of the problem. I grew up, I wouldn't say like in a chaotic household, like, but the things happened as a child were chaotic. I lost my dad at a really young age. And my brother was nonverbal. He's on the spectrum. And so, ⁓ you know, I lost Pete: It can add appointments to your calendar, track your mood, and even summarize your sessions for your therapist so you'll never lose progress. Plus, built-in crisis resources are always just one click away. It's a privacy-first, constantly evolving, made to complement your professional care, not replace it. Ready to try it out? Head over to the link in this episode and use my code, Pete, at checkout to get 20 % off your first month subscription to PsychPAL. PsychPAL, because your mind deserves a companion too. Mm-hmm. Julie: my dad, I don't know if my brother had said his first words at that point or not. But my mom's dealing with, you know, that diagnosis and trying to get him the help that he needed. And so everything kind of felt like influx. And it felt like the way that I received praise was by being like the one basically that you could count on. So my mom never had to like be at my butt trying to get me to do my homework or, you know, I was I did what was expected of me. And what was expected me was to do well at school. Pete: Yeah. Julie: So I did I did go on until I became a lawyer and I practiced for three years. But what was moving for me was a sense of. Honestly, what was important to me and I didn't know what was important to me like no one had asked me this question. It's like, what do you value? How do you want to live your life? It was very much assumed that you know, I would take on the values or desires of my family unit. And I think that's where most people go wrong. And everyone I believe has their own desire and value and it might line up with how you grow up it might not. But until you give yourself the permission to live that out, you're going to feel some sense of anxiety, this quiet mood. I don't think anxiety is bad. actually think anxiety is a signal that something, it's almost like the difference. ⁓ Pete: So it's not like a superpower really almost like essentially mine is like that too like a minor start going off my heart I like I could be dead asleep and I tell you right now I wake up my heart starts racing There's something going on. need to be a part of or something's happening And lo and behold, it's usually the correct thing or something is going to happen that it's trying to tell me for warming. All right, listen, man, something's about to happen. Stay alert. So like then when it hits you and you're like, ⁓ OK, it makes sense, you know, and it could be the most random things. The other day it was a group of friends were having a mental health conversation on TikTok. And like this is what I'm striving for right here for you to have these kind of conversations. So it's like I was dead asleep. I woke up, I kid you not. My heart was racing. I'm like, OK, something's going on. So I went to do my usual thing, check all my notices. Make sure nobody's trying to reach out to me and I just wandered into this one room where everybody was having a conversation and lo and behold, they're all having the one, they're talking about mental health, and then I walk in the room and I'm like, dude, this is really awesome because this is what I'm pushing for at this point. Julie: isn't that cool how you noticed it and it became something that like you interpreted it right the anxiety itself is never the issue like the yes it can be uncomfortable certainly like a panic attack could be extremely uncomfortable but it's the story we tell ourselves around the anxiety that ultimately causes us the unhappiness where your story is like something's happening I get to figure out what this is that I'm supposed to be a part of versus like you know everyone hates me or like this is it I'm going out this way and so it's so interesting like it is a signal but it doesn't have to be bad Pete: Mm-hmm. I get to figure out what this is that I'm supposed to be a part of versus like, you know, everyone hates me or like this is it, I'm going out this way. so it's so interesting. Like this is the thing, no, but it doesn't help me that. Yeah, no, I agree. You know, and a lot of times it's also helpful that my girlfriend is very understanding. So like we have an open conversation. So like I could tell her anything, like the most wildest thoughts my anxiety has come up with and she'll sit there and she'll actually listen to it. read it and go, okay, makes sense. All right. And I'm like, it sounds stupid. And she's like, no, it doesn't sound stupid. It's just what your thoughts are in your head. You know, so that's helpful too. But you know, at the same time, it's like, I use it as an alert system. Like if my anxiety starts kicking up, it's usually telling me that something is going to happen or I can anticipate that I'm feeling something is going on. And you know, when I'm like, okay, so what is going on? It's causing it to trigger so bad, you know, and it's, the racing heart for me. It's just like, I start racing and I'm like, I can't sleep sometimes. And I'm just like, I'm woke out of the dead asleep that something is going wrong, you know? And it's like, now I'm on a hunt to figure out what it is, you know? So I mean, it's, I don't let it really affect me too much, honestly, but I use it more as a superpower than anything. Because like I said, it always keeps me on high alert of anything around me. So it's like something coming up, I'm always ready for it, you know, and things like that too. Julie: Yeah, and it's so great that you like you know your signals and you know what that is in your body. I think that can be overwhelming too, especially when we're new to anxiety of understanding like, what is this? Like for me, it was this like feeling of buzzing. Like, like I was like, I was fully like turned on like too much so that I couldn't do anything else. Like I was so swallowed by this like almost like the blood pumping. Pete: Mm-hmm. like for a non-like too much so that I couldn't do anything else. Julie: And once I kind of got more into with that now I can start to sense like, know when something is making me feel that way a lot sooner, like before it would, I'd have to get to like a 10 out of 10 on that feeling, or I could recognize like, ⁓ this is what's happening. But now when things start to feel a little funky, I can bear like, even if it's subtle, I can acknowledge it and use it as a guidance as a tool. Pete: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So so explain us the path of how you went attorney to where you're at now, because psychedelic coach is way far from her attorney is obviously. Julie: Yeah, definitely. So I was just really unhappy as an attorney. And I thought that maybe it was a practice area thing. So I did I went to a few different practice areas. And ultimately, it was just like, it's the nature of being an attorney that wasn't for me. It's a very protracted process for anyone who's like had to deal with the legal system. They know that it's not like, ⁓ yeah, tomorrow, I have a remedy. ultimately, what left me feeling disappointed was that when people enter the legal process, you're never going to feel 100 % about it. But it's just kind of guaranteed like no no party is going to leave feeling like, yes, is victory because even if you get the monetary settlement or something you want, you definitely lost something in order to be entitled to it. And there's the time, the money, the effort, the energy that you spend in the legal process, trying to get to that result. And I just was so disillusioned by the whole thing. And so I started digging really into personal development side of them therapy and was like, man, this therapy thing is not for me. I'm so tired of talking about my dad dying and how my mom messed me up. I'm like, yeah, Deborah, I know this. Like, this is why I'm here. That's some enlightening news that you have for me. And it felt very much like focused on the past. Like, let's talk about your dad dying one more time. It's like, no, it happened. I don't want to talk about it anymore. Pete: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ Julie: I want to move forward. And so I didn't like therapy. didn't like medication. I had been prescribed. And it did help. Like I think I needed it at the time because I was at a very like low state, but it ended up really blunting things for me all around. Like, yes, I wasn't a sad, but I wasn't as happy either. Um, and so I found personal development and I really fell in love with it. was like, wow, okay. Action oriented. It's future focus. It's like acknowledging the past, not perseverating in it. Pete: Yeah. ⁓ Julie: I was obsessed and so I decided to get certified as a coach. And I did that and I was coaching for about a year when someone introduced me to the concept of microdosing. And for me, I had worked a lot on my anxiety and I felt a lot better, but there was still this, like a scab that is in my field. I was like, I feel like I could get there. I just don't know if any of the tools that I've learned so far, what's going to get me there. I'm going to see what microdosing can do for me. And so when I got into it, Pete: So I've been certified as a coach. And I did that. And I was coaching for about a year when someone introduced me to the concept of microdosing. And for me, I had worked a lot on my idea and I felt a lot better. there was still like a scab that I could take off. I feel like I could get there. I used to look up any of the tools that I've learned from a bar or something like that. I'm going to see what microdosing means me. So when I got into it, Julie: It was purely selfish. It was for myself. It wasn't like, I'm gonna make this my business. Pete: It's really self-willed for myself and I'm like, so busy, I And I've tried anxiety meds. I can't do them. They were just horrible. Like one of them I was taking, my heart was racing and I'm like, I'm standing there completely still. It's like, I thought it was going to have a heart attack literally because it just kept going. And my ex is trying to tell me, Oh, don't read the side effects. I'm like, yeah, read the side effects. It literally says right there. If your heart is racing, go to the hospital. I'm like, what do you mean? Don't read the side effects. It says right there. Hey, listen, if you experience the following, you need to seek medical attention. So I'm like, I'm at work looking at this going like something's not right here. So I was looking up the drug and I was looking at the side effects and I'm like, Oh, well, I probably should go to the hospital now. So I had to call my boss and tell her and my ex is like, what did you go to the hospital for? Because it says right there, if you're experiencing these problems, go. And she was never big into the medical system. I just like, like, I think like it has its place, but I feel like these, these medications are just, they're just wild, dude. The things, the side effects are just ridiculously disgusting. It's just like, there's so many better things out there for you. Microdosing is so much better of an idea. You know, even even CBDs are doing really great things these days for people and, you know, everybody's against them. And it's like, because we're not going through big farm to get them. And it's like, bad. I don't like the side effects I'm getting. Like, half these medications, like there's one I take now that says I'm not supposed to be in sunlight for exposure to times. I'm like, OK, well, that's great. Like, I'll just be a mole man then. I guess that's what you want me to do. I don't understand. Like, it's just. I don't know what they're putting in these things and it scares me. But microdosing has always been an interesting thing. We've discovered a few people that have done it. heard of other great things about it. So I I love the fact that you're doing it because taking people away from those drugs because a lot of those stuff, the side effects are just disgustingly horrible. Julie: Yeah, you know, I have a friend who was taking and I can't remember exactly what the medication was, but it's medication for eczema, which like is a skin condition you think like, okay, like how well how bad could this be right? But it ended up it caused his corneas to fail. So he's had to have both of his corneas replaced. And like, that's just so extremely he had to have his eyes replaced as a result of an eczema skin medication. Pete: Mm-hmm. That's what I'm saying, like, what the hell, man? Like, I'm putting this cream on help me and then you're just like, well, you know, by the way, your corneas might get screwed over in the end of this thing. Like, how, man? Like, I'm treating the skin rash and you're telling me this is gonna fuck my... This is what I'm saying, like, that's what I'm talking about. The side effects are, like, what are you putting in these things that are causing these kind of problems? It's crazy. Julie: Well, yeah. a compound, right? And that's what I love so much about micro dosing is, and particularly what I work with, I only work with capsules. ⁓ it's just purely dried mushrooms. Sometimes there's functional mushrooms in there, right? So we think like ratio, quarter, subs lines, main turkey tail, etc. ⁓ it is exactly that, right? It's like, yes, it's different than the mushroom that you eat on a pizza, because it has an active compound in until a side been, but it's not any different in like, in the effects that will have your body. of course, like if you're allergic to mushrooms, you can't micro dose, right? Like that's micro dose Pete: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Julie: psilocybin. That's like that makes sense. But it's not nothing else in there. And that's also why I don't work with gummies. I don't work with chocolates. Part it is like ⁓ in party independent testing, they've seen that some of those products that aren't like pure mushrooms, they actually don't contain any psilocybin at all when they're tested. And then it just it's also it's more crap that you put in your body. I'm I'm kind of a purist. I just want the mushroom. ⁓ Pete: ⁓ I actual ingredients that are real, real stuff, you know, you probably feel a whole lot better than what you do after that shit. Because you don't know what they're putting in these things, especially with your drugs, know, and what you're doing is you're essentially just, that's it, you're getting exactly what I'm giving you. These are the mushrooms you're gonna have in this capsule, that's all, nothing else. You know, have you thought about doing your own version of chocolate something? Because you can control what you're putting in these things. Julie: honestly, people ask us all the time. I have no interest in the product space business. ⁓ It's just not for me. And I think well, actually, like in the journey of entrepreneurship, one thing one skill and honestly, this is probably true for life that I've really had to develop that I think has been a game changer for me is like being very strong in my own yes or no, because people are going to should all over you. You should do this. Have you tried that? Sha la la la la and I like I know what I like and I know what I know very rooted in it. honestly, that was the way to when I was like Pete: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Julie: Treating my anxiety. ⁓ well, you should try this therapist. That's why I got into therapy this woman was like, ⁓ you should go to my therapist She's great or like, yeah, you know, you should try pros act and and some of these suggestions like are I have tried them and I like them for instance I really like breathwork. Someone told me I should try that in it ⁓ ⁓ people like they don't develop their own inner guidance. So they just take on all these suggestions without ever learning like Pete: Birthwork is phenomenal. take on all these congestions without ever worrying like, what is their yes? I'm very firm in my yes, like if you live almost instantly, or my no. And that has to be gained through this. You 100 % can tell that like, you know, if you're gonna ask you some, Julie's gonna just shut you down like, yeah, I don't think so. Try again, Charlie, not this way. Hit the road, Jack. I mean, I get it though, because you're standing strong with what you wanna do. then the thing with people giving advice about everything, God, I fucking hate that. Like I understand people wanna help you, like. Julie: what is their yes and I'm very firm in my yes and I can feel it almost instantly or my no and that has been a game changer for me. Pete: For the love of God, do a little research before you start giving advice. Because some of the things they tell you is just, I just don't know where they're getting this information from. you know, like what was this guy that I seen, he was telling people they're depressed to go back to when they were 18 years old. I'm like, dude, what if I was 18 years old and I hated myself? Like, do you really think that's a happy place I want to go back to? Like, you know what I Thinking like that, just makes me worry. would people suggest things? then your next question is where the hell did you get that from? They're like, oh, well, the internet told me. OK, so what part of the internet did you go to for this? Because you really got to start digging into these things, because you don't know all the misinformation out there and all these crazy things people are saying. And then they're constantly telling you things, and you're just like, yeah, I don't think so. That's great. Listen, and you got to just smile now. And it's like, you know, I really don't care what people say either. You know, honestly, I'm the same way. It's like, you know, they want to give me advice on how to do something. It's like, hey, listen, you want to trade places? You can you want to run this show? Go ahead. You know, like everybody wants to tell you how to do something until they have to go and do it themselves. And then it's like, well, never mind. Forget it. They realize how much work you're putting into these things. And then they're like, well, you know, I can't handle that. I'm good. So well, then stop giving me advice. Julie: You know, misinformation as certainly like a huge issue that we're facing in the age of the internet and just so a barrage of information information that is not actually a fact. It's just something someone said and you know, things being presented as facts and people not really doing the research and I also think what most people pedal is a one size fits all solution. So like for instance, I really like cold plunging and that works really well for me but I don't Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie: believe it's for everyone. I don't believe microdosing is for everyone. I mean, I can scientifically point to certain groups who should not microdose because of different effects it'll have on on their brain, they like contraindications and, and potential for aberrations. But that's people want something just like tell me what to do. And my whole thing, my whole process and my work is I'm going to help you discover what your process is, because my process is not your process. Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie: 75 days hard is not for me, but some people are like you have to do 75 days hard. And I think that's really the issue is people get into this mindset of like, I know what you should do because it worked for me and therefore it will work for you. And that's like the false equivalence. That is not true at all. Everybody is different and every person has experienced a different life and had different traumas and different things that have been. So I'm all about a customization and a bespoke process. And I think in today's world, we're just. Pete: No. Well, know, because we live in the we want it now society. So I love what you're doing, though, is that you're catering it to people. You're like, hey, listen, I'm going to help you discover this. Like, you know, and I love the fact you point out that. Julie: a one size fits all solution that really doesn't end up fitting anyone. Pete: not everything works for everybody. And I think that's a really strong point to make is that, you know, not everything's for everybody, not everything will work for everybody. And everybody's not going to have the same responses. It's just like when you meet other people, other mental health conditions, like take BPD, for instance, like I've met five different guests with BPD and every single one has a different story to how it feels to them, you know, and it's just how it goes. So you make a fantastic point there because you're like, I'm not going to tell you what to do. could. but I'm not going to, I'm going to let you discover that on your own. And it's empowering people because they have to put in the work, which we all know with a lot of therapy that when people leave there, they're like, okay, I'm going to do it. A lot of times they don't put in the work and then they come back and they're back to the vicious cycle because nobody's making sure they're doing it. You, on the other hand, are like, hey, listen, going to do this, but we're going to do this the way this is this is going to work. I'm going to guide you. You're going to figure this out. I'm going to be here for you. That way they have to put the work in and they can't be like, ⁓ well, Julie told me to do this. No, no, no. Listen, listen. You decided this, not Julie. Remember that now. Julie: Well, that's just the thing right people I this is not a commentary on anyone's choice. If you have taken a GLP one and like that works for you. That's amazing that my fear with GLP ones is that it does remove food noise for you. So you do eat less and of course it is it's physical and mechanical to right there's like your stomach evacuates more slowly and so you're fuller longer. That's great. I hope that it helps people Pete: Exactly. Julie: What I fear though is that it's not a lifetime solution to medication. And if you're not dealing with the deeper emotional issue around food, because for a lot of people, it is more emotional. It's like the food noise is there because it's filling some sort of need. Then when you get off of it, you're just going to gain the weight back because you haven't created sustainable habits and really done the deeper emotional work around food and people like my food isn't emotional. Maybe if you are overeating, like your food is emotional, like no shame, like let's just be honest. Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie: And so people come to microdosing. And people are like, I want to microdose all the time. And like, I don't have to do anything else. And I tell people like microdosing is not an Advil. If you have a headache, you take an Advil, your headache goes away. That's great. microdosing, you might have a really good day on your own day. But if you're not pairing it with tools of integration, if you're not doing that deeper work, it's not going to change your life. And I'm not ⁓ wants to like become a crunch. I just had this person who Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie: wanted to hire me for a retreat and have me come in and just like facilitate the journey. And so she's kind of trying to go with me about the price, right? So well, some people do it for this and I'm like, yeah, those people do, but they just take you through a journey and then they leave, right? That's it. I'm all about the integration. The integration is what makes me different and sets me apart. I want to make sure you take what happens in the journey, take those practical insights and apply them to your life. And that is what's actually going to change your life. It's not taking the mancritos capsule. It's figuring out how to pull the thread and take the magic of an ande into your everyday norm. Pete: Yeah, yeah, I love it. I think it's great though. I think that's a really good strong point too is that you're like, I'm doing it this way. That's great. Everybody else does it this way, but this is what makes me different. And I think when it comes to that market, you got to be doing something different than everybody else. And you're like, well, hey, listen, that's great. They'll do these for you. But this is what I'm offering for you. And I love how you're trying to integrate it to everything though. You know, you're not just trying to do the, well, here I'm to take your money, do it, give you a little site, little little fireworks show, and then you're good. No, no, no. We're going to we're going to intertwine this thing. We're going to do a little more work with it, which I love. I think it's great, though. So, you know, it's I think it's interesting, though, because a lot of people tend to want to get into these things like you said. They're like, oh, I want to micro this all the time. And it's like, yeah, I don't think they're doing this for the right reasons. You know, and everybody wants to do it it's such a fad diet. And the GOP's, you know, what we said, everybody wanted to take them. But, know, like I take one, though. But I take it for my diabetes because it helps with my diabetes. So I have a different reason I take it though. But I do agree with you though, if you're not, you're not really paying attention to what you're doing, you need to develop a healthier habit with your foods because if not, you're just going to fall right back to where you were and it's going to put you in the back in the same situation. So I'm diabetic. like I am, I have to be very careful with certain things I'm having. Like I can have something here and there, but I really have to really check it because I'm checking my sugar numbers will go on and up all the time, you know, and things like that as well. So You know, it's not a fun ride, you know, so but I get it though. I love it, though. I think the way that your model is, it makes more sense to most people because you're not just like, OK, well, I'm going to take your money. Here you go. going show you the flash and bang and then leave you there. You're like, no, no, we're going to work this. We're going to work this all the way and everything else, you know, and things like that, too. So anybody at home that's thinking about micro dosing, what what are some things you want them to know ahead of time? Julie: Yeah, so I guess a couple big things one is that microdosing is truly sub perceptual if you do it and I'm very remiss to use this words I don't believe like right or wrong or good or bad. These are all moral judgments from God knows. What is your operating system? Sometimes it is God supposedly, right? And so I just don't get into right or wrong or good or bad But if you're gonna do it, right meaning it's it's like something that you can feel dr. Fadim and the guy who coined this term of microdosing says Transformation without intoxication. So if you're doing it, right, it is sub perceptual meaning You're not gonna feel like you can pick your kids up from soccer. You can go to work You can have an intelligent conversation. I microdose before this conversation. I seem fine, right? Like it is maybe some people like no I hate her and that's fine to go you're entitled to your opinion And you're like microdose you're not in ebreed it or incapacitated anyway, honey So keep in mind dosage, right? You go like oh, I want to take more more is better. No Pete: Ha Julie: We need to cut that out in our society. More is not better. You just want enough to produce a positive effect in your brain without making you incapacitated, without making you unable to go about your daily life. And then two, you're having your intention. I mean, the two things that I like preach ad nauseum about, and people are probably tired if they've heard me before, is talking about integration and intention. My two eyes. You have to set an intention. You have to be so clear on like, what am I looking to get out of this? How do I want to feel at the end of the process and use that as your anchor throughout your time. Pete: Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. So I mean, you got to have an you have an idea of where you want to be with this thing, you know, and it's I think that a lot of people need to keep that in mind, though. But I think it's great. It's like I always tell people, like if talk therapy isn't for you, there's plenty of things like what you're doing and other people are doing. that are more beneficial to you. like, you know, hey, therapy isn't the end all be home. I mean, you know, like that's everybody thinks is like when you have mental health issues, that's the first place you get a hypnosis. There's there's tons of people that have been on this show that do twenty thousand different things. You know, they can all try these different things and, you know, things like that, too. And I love microdosing because I am a big guy against pharma. Like I don't like the mental health medications because I just hear nothing but crazy stories like lithium poisoning and all these other things. I got a friend that does another show with me. Julie: Yeah. Pete: She had taken like 19 different drugs, Julie. And let me tell you, it was like, it was the most insane thing you've ever heard in your life. She's like, yeah, I take like 19 medications. I'm like, 19, hold up, hold up, wait a minute. 19, she's like, yeah. And then I had lithium poisoning and they didn't realize I had lithium poisoning. And it's just like, it's off putting because it's like, you're the medical doctor who's giving this to me and you don't know what the hell you're doing, but you're just kind of guessing at it as almost seems like. You know, and I get where we've come from to where we're now with mental health in general, like the different things you can do. and all the different things you can get into. it's like these medicines are just, it's just crazy though. Like I said, the side effects alone are just like, what the hell is going on with the world today? Like I'm taking an antidepressant and I'm having suicidal thoughts. Isn't this why I'm taking this antidepressant and try and counteract some of these problems? And then it's like 10 minutes later, the next commercial comes on and it's like, like I said, if you watch them, I'm serious. Now people are gonna watch this and go like watching videos now they're gonna watch the commercials. Come on in. Here's the first set. There's the second set. And it's just like, well, you know, yeah, I'm like, No, no, no. So what do you see the future for microdosing? Do you feel like it's gonna be the new thing coming down the road that people are gonna start leaving big pharma and heading towards your direction? Julie: means it's part of the future at least like what kind of stuff was come up recently makes me a little bit scared or just out of trepidatious because like I don't want to I don't want to belabor the big pharma point but big pharma I mean, ultimately is creating a drug so that they're doing it in a way they're compounding it in a way so that they can patent it so they can make money off of it. And when we look at a lot of prescriptions, they are like lifetime sentences, right? Doctors are taught how to put you on a medication, they're not taught how to bring you off. That's actually one of my specialties is helping people titrate off of unwanted medications. Because most plans like if you go into a doctor and you say, I don't want to my lexicon anymore. They'd be like, Okay, well, here, you're gonna do this for a month and then you'll be done. I've never seen a plan from a doctor that's been longer than a month. And also every single thing I've ever seen that was from a doctor was just like habit, right? So if you're taking 50, go down to 25 and then go down to, you know, maybe 10 and then just stop. And it's like, that's not sustainable for most people. That's not really how people get off and stay off. So, and the issue that I have with the future of psilocybin is now... big pharma is getting involved and they want to create a compound around psilocybin to like monetize on my producing. So the companies that I work with are really grassroots. I mean, they're like, I don't want to say mom and pop shops, but there are people I literally know, right? They come, they have their own facilities. Like here's what, here's a capsule. I work with three companies in particular, like it just is ground mushrooms, but you know, they grow their own mushrooms in temperature controlled like settings of different strains and they Pete: and Mm-hmm Mm-hmm. ⁓ Julie: grind the dried mushrooms and package them into the microdosing capsules. But when the big pharma gets involved and they're looking to monetize on in some way, so they're not going to be using pure psilocybin, they're going to be creating a chemical compound that is just a psilocybin, right? So a way to think about it is like every mushroom is a mushroom, but not every mushroom has psilocybin in it, right? It is a chemical compound, but it's naturally occurring in certain mushrooms. But what's Big Pharma is going to be doing is creating manufacturing in the lab, just chemical psilocybin to put in a pill. It'll never have touched a mushroom, never have come from a mushroom. And then that's what they'll be like, selling to you, they're going to patent that design and then sell it to you way overpriced. And who knows what else they're going to put in it, because that's exactly what happens in these other you know, compounds where they were just using like the, and I'm not like someone who thinks like, okay, if I have strep throat that lavender is going to kill my strep throat, like I'm going to go get a fucking amoxicillin or whatever. I curse on here. Pete: Yeah, no, get you Yeah, you don't give that five. Yeah, I can't go ahead. Yeah, I do it all day. You me? Shit. I've said worse things Julie: Whoops, okay. So yeah, I'm like I'm going to take an antibiotic if I need an antibiotic but There are several natural compounds where we don't need these pills We could just take the compound directly whether it be turmeric or whatever and so when big pharma gets involved I just worry that it's going to become a moneymaker and it's gonna lose Pete: Yeah. Yeah. Julie: I mean, it's gonna become one of those things that has a bunch of side effects and it's kind of gonna lose its heart. Like to me, I do have a bit of a reverence for like the mushroom itself and I have a deep respect for this work and I just feel like it's gonna become commercialized, which is a little bit of a worry. But I like that people are being more open minded about it now. They're not like mushrooms are the devil. It's like actually mushrooms are a lot closer to God than your alcohol is. Pete: Yeah. They're thinking like, know, they're just going to get high as a kite with them. Like, yeah, I you're thinking the wrong mushrooms, man. I think we're getting a little too wild with it, you know. But I get it, though. know, big pharma is going to step in. it's like, you know, people like yourselves are keeping it natural to the root. think may win it out though at end, because I think a holistic healing is coming through a lot stronger than a lot of the Western medicine things that are going on now. lot more people are doing breath work. They're doing energy healing. you know, all these different other kinds of things other than just like going to the doctor, because that's their biggest fears. They're to go to a therapist and they're going to prescribe them something crazy that they're going to have to take. it's, you know, because they hear all those stories of people that are having problems. I'm like, I could see for some extreme situations, certain people need the medication depending on what their condition is. Okay, cool. Got it. But not all of us need it like that, you know, and if you ever feel like you don't want to do something, just advocate for yourself. I think that's a lot of people afraid of this advocate for themselves to say, No, I don't want to take that. You know, there's got to be something else out there, you know, and instead of looking at all these little routes, but that's why I invite different people like yourselves on the show that we can expand people's minds like, Hey, listen, if you don't like this, Julie offers this kind of thing or, know, other people that have been on the show, they have all these different options. You can go check out and see, you know, and a lot of times, you know, it's a lot of cool. It's really cool to see people's responses to it. Cause they're like, well, I really know that existed. Cause I've shared with everybody. I'm like, Hey, listen, have you checked this out before? You know, and I'll plug whatever company is like, Hey, you know, I got to, I met a person named Julie. She's got this company. This is where she does mushrooms and things like this. Maybe micro dosing is the way you go for what you're doing. Cause you always hear horror stories. Be like, well, I don't like the side effects and I don't like this. I don't like that. Well, have you ever thought about micro dosing? I know a few people that you can talk to and I always share out your guys's information. Everybody that comes on this show, I always pass off information to the people to come check out the stuff. because I'm like, you know, why not help other people? Like I've run into so many people every day, just going through the internet and things like that. I'm always around doing something, you know, and I was running to people that are always mentioning the same thing. They're like, I don't like the side effects of these. I don't like taking this because of that. You know, a lot of people, a lot of horror stories. And I'm like, you know, so like, it's great to know that there's, there's people like yourself that are doing these things. You're keeping it so natural to the, just the actual mushroom and not a bunch of other sort of crap that's in there. So what I'm telling people is I'd like, Hey, listen, Julie's got this company. 100 % the mushrooms that you're taking. She showed it to me, we talked about it. You know, these are the kind of things. So I share all the links and all the information, all your socials to people, things like that too, just so people know where to find you and things like that too, because it's great. Because I at first, you know, didn't know a lot about holistic medicine and then I started really checking into it. And I try a lot of the techniques and things I give them. Like we did breath work, mentioned, we did breath work on the show a couple of times. We had another guy that came on. Tim and I out of Australia, did it. We were doing some pretty interesting things, but it's like, it's great for my anxiety. Cause like, if I start going off the rails a little bit, I feel like I'm going to have a freak out session. I literally where I work, there's a cooler. So I go in there and take deep breaths in the cold air and do my breath work in there. You know, I use other techniques too. Like sometimes I'll start talking to myself, which to people looks like I'm talking to myself, but really what I'm doing is I'm getting the thoughts out of my head. Cause you know, like if I don't, my anxiety will take it and just run off. So like I'll start saying things to myself out loud to see how dumb it sounds or like I'll text my girlfriend, Danny, I'll tell her about it. And she's like, I'm like, Hey, I'm going to tell you something. I don't need you to judge me. And she laughs every time, but she knows like, I'm like, I'm about to say some wild shit. Or I do another thing where I call it downloading my brain. I'll just, let me just send an endless stream of message to someone. And it just be an endless wording. was just random shit in my head. Like, okay, I'm fine. All right, I'm good. Now. See you later. Click. And then they're just like, okay. You know, but I've learned so many different things doing the show, things like journal, I read books, I, you know, like I said, I all these things and I try all these things and then I tell other people about it too, you know, and stuff like that too. Microdosing haven't got really into yet, but you know, maybe now in the world, maybe I will see if my anxiety gets that bad. I'll give it a shot, see what happens, you know, at least I know who to hit up if I know like, listen, I can hit you up and like, Hey, listen, I'm interested in trying. At least I know I'm getting a hundred percent in the mushroom. I'm not getting all the extra crap that you can just slide in there like everybody else does, you know, and things like that too. Julie: Well, thank you so much. know, it's so I win win is one of my top like values coming back to this idea of values and like my core ones. Um, so really being in that reciprocity, I, know, I think that's what makes the world go around. I don't feel like it really makes me sad and to see like the state of the world. Cause I feel like everyone's out for themselves and thinking like, I have to push someone else down to get ahead. But I really believe that no one wins unless we're all winning and we're all in collaboration. Pete: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know what saying? Like it's the same thing with podcasting too. think a lot of people are afraid that, know, what am I going to offer to the world? You got to your voice to the world. There's so many different podcasts. There's only 25 % a day. You can only listen to so many podcasts at a time. And it's like, you know, I do this, what I do, another project. I may have a third project and I just enjoy what I do, you know, and things like that. don't let other people stop me. And if people ask me all the time, like, do you sleep? The answer is no, never sleep. I don't ever sleep, you know, but it's okay. Eventually one day I'll finally figure that whole method out. But You know, it's part of a process, but Julie, we're at the fun part of the show where I ask you a question. She's like, oh, OK. We're at the fun part of the show where I asked two questions, OK? So the first question I ask is actually one I got from a friend of mine who runs a podcast called The Shit That Goes On In Her Heads. Her question to me and my question to you is that if your mental health had a song, what would you say that song would be? Julie: ⁓ okay. ⁓ sorry. Okay. ⁓ know This is a song that I don't like it's not even on my Like like my like songs, but it's I think it's like by Jessie J goes singing in the shower Pete: Everyone loves this question. Yes, I do. ⁓ Julie: That's, think, what it would be. Pete: That's great. It's always a fun answer to this question because when you ask people you get the most random questions answers to them I think we have Michael Jackson's beat it came up Rage Against the Machine came up a bunch of random songs So like when I asked you that question, they're all like the same thing. Oh, yeah, this is a great question And like one person's like, can I break it down in multiple ways? I'm like, yeah, cuz like mine my anxiety song was artificial suicide by Bad Omens I know everybody gets thrown off by the title of it, but it's the fact is that constant like strumming of the noise of the guitar. It's like that's how it feels. When my anxiety is full blown, dude, I'm going like this. My heart's racing. So my depression songs were Leave the Light on, Talk Away to Dark by Papa Roach and then Different Kind of Pain by Cold were the two songs I chose. And you know, and it's just because I resonate with music in general. I love music. I listen to it all day. I'm always listening to music. It doesn't matter what it is. Doesn't matter the genre. I'm always listening to something because I always feel like it's a really great thing. It's like when you're that bad day, there's always that one metal song you go to or, you know, I have different playlists I put out all the time for people. And, know, I just give them an experience of what it's like to go through my head some days, you know, and sometimes it's all over the place. Like we're going MGK to Metallica to Slipknot to Marilyn Manson sometimes, you know, and we're literally going everywhere. There's backstreet boys on some of them too, just because I like to throw people off a bit and they just start looking at me weird, like, what the hell am I listening to? Just listen, it makes sense. You know what mean? Like, it's like, just go with it. So. So Julie, the second question and the one, most important reason why I started this podcast is that is if you can break the stigma about mental health. Now, when I say this, I see anything that you hear people say every day that drives you absolutely crazy. What would you say that one thing would be? Julie: Oh, I don't like this like, idea that you're okay, I don't like the idea that like you're broken or you need to be fixed. And I have this weird analogy. So I feel like when everyone's born, we're all brand new refrigerators. Just roll with me here. So your refrigerator, you get into refrigerator, you install it in your kitchen, and it's like beautiful and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I'm a I'm a short person. Pete: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Julie: And so I don't clean the top of my refrigerator a lot. And so then you like, you know, you do this thing, you like, wow, that's a lot of dust, right. And so you clean off the top of your refrigerator, and then it's like brand new again, right? There's nothing wrong with it. was just a little dusty. And that's how I feel about people and about life. I feel like everyone's born a brand new refrigerator, and nothing like third, they don't get broken, nothing happens to them. But life is dusty. And life gives you a lot of dust and a lot of muck and like some you stuff when you touch it, right. But that's not Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie: you're not bad. You're not broken. You don't need to be fixed. It's the life is you. And so like that's just the nature of our existence, right? We're all perfect. I think when we're born and then stuff happens to us. Some is like trauma, big T, some is trauma, little t, but we all have the opportunity to just dust ourselves off. So I never want us to think about like, it's not about fixing. It's always about removing what isn't even yours to begin with. Pete: Yeah, no, I think it's a really great point too, you know, of the same way too because I was abandoned as 10 So like I used to use it as like my big anchor point But now it's more of a superpower because had I not had that happen I wouldn't be doing this show now because my ability to make people feel Welcome is always a big thing and me and dr. Tim Blake talked about this for a little bit He had mentioned that like when I was talking to him He started asking me these weird questions and it was really random He said hey listen, do you ever feel like you want to make everybody feel included? I said, yeah, and then he I forgot what the other question he asked me But he said okay, so I were you abandoning when you were younger I didn't even tell him at this point the interview he had no idea but he was like saying it was like yeah, so, you know like I've been turning it into a superpower as well because at this point if had that not happen This show may not even exist because the need to want to make the fill that space for people to have a safe space, come in here and talk about things. And we've had some wild stories this season. Like there's, there's some wild shit that's coming up that if anybody at this point is only listening to this episode, trust me, you want to go back and listen to some of these other ones. It is going to be a wild ride this season for sure. You know, we are on season three of the show now. It's been great so far in the first two seasons. I've done about 300 interviews and I've, I've heard a lot of things between those 300 interviews of just those random stories. But I think that's, that's a really good point though, is that, know, just, just, just, you gotta just kind of dust you off and everything else, because I think people beat themselves up too much and say, well, I'm broken, so I can't be fixed. And it's like, it's that negative mentality that I don't get why it's, and again, it's mostly probably the internet, because like, when people go to their and start sharing their stories, like the hateful comments that come out and things like that. It just beats you down because it's like, you're just like looking for some positivity and then all these people and these evil trolls are out there just start saying the most wild things ever. Like go to the hospital, go, you need to go see a therapist. You need to go check yourself in. And it's like, well, you know what? Most of these people have already done that actually. So, Hey, that's cool. I'm glad you just want to keep highlighting about the trauma of things that we're talking about when they're trying to express something to your share their story with you, you know? So that's a great thing about the show is that I offer that space to people. So thank you so much for coming to hang out with us today. It was great meeting you. I already knew this was going be a conversation. I said, I already told you beforehand because Melissa had you on. Obviously Melissa picks pretty good guests too. So me and her have been good friends. We had a great time. First time me and her met and all that stuff. So Julie, do you want to let everybody know where they can find you? Like what is the best place for them to find you? Julie: Well, thank you so much for having me was such an awesome conversation. Really the best place to find me is on Instagram at Julie Savone j u l i e c y v o n e no spaces, no dots, whatever. I answer all of my own DMS. And that's where I'm at every single day. And if you're like curious about microdosing, because we did mention, you know, some people microdosing just isn't for them. ⁓ A way to find out is you can DM me the word journey and a quiz will send right to you. Pete: Mm-hmm. Julie: ⁓ It takes two minutes, it's 11 questions, and it gives you a great idea if this is like definitely not for you. It's worth more of a conversation. Or it's something that is like a great idea for you and your next step. Because I just like to say people's times I would hate for someone to be like, ⁓ I really want to do this. And then it turns out it's just like for whatever reason not good for them. Pete: Yeah, because you did say there was a few things that there's two types of people that shouldn't be microdosing, right? Julie: Yeah, there are a different well, first of all, like, co not maybe co morbidity. That's not Pete: Yeah, yeah, definitely. So no, that makes sense. So, know, well, thank you so much, Julie, for coming and hang out with us today. I really appreciate it. You know, if you ever come up with anything new, you want to talk about anything new things are coming up, you're more than welcome to come back and visit us. I'd love for you to come back and hang out with me. I had a great time. Enjoyed having you here. Before I sign off, do you have any last words you'd to say to anybody? Any words of encouragement you want to tell everybody out there? Mm-hmm. I love it, absolutely love it. Thank you so much, Julie. Guys, with that being said, we're gonna wrap up this episode of Peteford's Anxiety. You guys don't wanna find me on Peteford's Anxiety, I'm on Spotify all the way down to Panto Radio. I'm on X all the down to TikTok and there's always say it costs nothing, absolutely not to be kind to somebody. One kind act you can do can save someone's life or hell, you can make their day. I'm Peteford's Anxiety sign off saying, don't ask how your day is today, say hey, how's your mental health?