Latest / The You Project / #1968 Two Crusty Old Coaches - Andrew May

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#1968 Two Crusty Old Coaches - Andrew May · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: A good team. I hope you're bloody terrific. Welcome to
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: another installing the You project. And when I say that
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: you project, I'm going to put a little asterisk next
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: to that and say kinder kinder. The reason I say
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: kinder is because the brilliant, handsome, devastatingly talented Andrew May
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: of the Performance Intelligence podcast he and I got together
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: last week. We did a chat. We had a chat.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Officially it was me on his show, but because I'm
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: wildly lazy, I went, fucking he fuck, what if we
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: do what us podcast is call a co share and
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: we will share that conversation here at camp typ So
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: that's what we're doing. So Andrew and I had Mazie,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: as his friends call him, Mazie and I had a
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: good chat about the concept of well, we spoke about
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: success broadly, but we spoke about fame. We spoke about
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: people's desire for attention and to be famous and be
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: seen and be wanted and all of those things, and
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: the idea of becoming an overnight success, which really, you know,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: there's so many moving past that, so many variables about that.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: And I think the title of his show was something
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: like becoming an overnight success in twenty years or something
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: something like that. But anyway, we had a really good
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: chat and I thought I would share that chat with
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: you today. So hope you're good. Hope you're enjoying the
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: start of your week if you're listening to this on
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: the day that it is released, which is a Monday,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: which is August eighteen, the first August eighteen, twenty twenty
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: five we've ever had. So if it is that day
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: for you, it might be the day you do something special.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: You've had lots of Mondays, but you've never had this one,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: as Craig Harp says, or whatever day it is, enjoy
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I hope you get something out of it. And love
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: your collective guts is love jumbo.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: In our modern landscape, we celebrate when somebody goes viral,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: but what happens when you do and nothing changes?
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Today?
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I with Craig Harper, effectingly known as Harps, one of
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Australia's leading performance coaches and host of the You Project podcast.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Harps is over forty years of experience working across elite sport, media,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: health and professional development. Now, most overnight successes are the
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: final scene of a long unseen grind but the public
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: only sees the climax and not the climb. I've got
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: a question for you, Craig Harper in welcoming you back
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: to the podcast for multiple times, what are your thoughts
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: on an overnight success?
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Hi, mate, good to be back. You sound very very
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: professional straight out of the gate. I better try to
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: live up to that. I can do.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Get a harps, mate, how you're going like, yeah, let's
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: talk about the weather.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what you were like before you press the go.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: But then all of a sudden, I've got summer radio.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: He's put on podcast voice. He's not saying fuck who.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: He's gone from moccasins and bloody army shorts to three
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: piece suit. Yeah. That's a good question. I mean, it
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: depends on how you define success. And you know, we
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: know people blow up for somebody who does a video,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: they blow up, they go viral. I don't know why
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: this person comes to mind. I don't even know if
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: you remember this, but you know Huck Tour girl, you
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: know that girl that I do remember her? Yes? Ah,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: you gotta give him that huck top on that NNE. Yeah. Right,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: So we won't talk about the origin story of what
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: she was talking about but you know, she did a grab.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Somebody asked her a question and the answer to that
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: and that subsequent little kind of exchange was videoed when
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: nuts and so she Depending on what your KPIs are
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: for success, you will say she was an overnight success.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: She went from from zero to hero in some ways,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: and from making no dough to making lots of dough.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: But I think there was maybe a subsequent, almost as
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: rapid decline. I'm not sure. So for me, success is
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: really how someone is over the long term, and it
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: may or may not have to do with anything commercial.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: I've got another one for you. Do you remember Corey Worthington.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: I was at that kind of party, kid or something
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: that not.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Twenty sixteen, Layla McKinnon on The Current Affair did an interview.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: He had those yellow sunglasses. I can still remember Laylah saying,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: take those sunglasses off. And he's saying, why why should.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I take a few glasses and apologize to us. I'll say, sorry,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: but I'm not taking all my glasses. Why not because
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: they're famous?
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Because your glasses are famous. So he was a household
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: name for a couple of weeks. His parents went away.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: He had a party. He had his fifteen minutes of fame.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Here is massive. I've done a Google search. He's not
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: doing a hell of a lot. I mean that with respect,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: but you know you look at that. That had millions,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: hundreds of millions of clicks and downloads. So it was
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: just about going viral like that would set you up
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: for success. But it's not well in some cases maybe,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: But I look at you. You did a post yesterday.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: It was perfect timing for this mate. The post was
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: called don't waste your potential. You said forty years ago.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Forty years harps. Geez, you're looking fresh. Look at him,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: wiz Yeah, no, look at me.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I was only six.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I started in grade so that's all right. Forty years
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: ago in brackets. In grade two I started a thing
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: called personal training. People said it wouldn't last, nobody would pay.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: At best, it was a fat Four years later I
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: set up something called a personal training center. Than were
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: any in Australia. I was told I wasn't prepared for business.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I wasn't that I was naive. I was that I
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: would go broke. I didn't, it would fail, didn't have
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: a quarter of a century. I set up four centers
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: work with thousands of clients, employed hundreds of pets, trained
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: professional sporting teams, multiple Olympians, and found my way into
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: the worlds of media, academia, corporate high performance, and personal development.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: I am grateful I did the work and grateful I
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: didn't listen to those who predicted my demise. We end
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: the podcast here, couldn't.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: We forty years? Yeah? You coming out of a night success.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Thank you, great mate, thank you, Thanks poor boys girls,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: shortest podcast amazing harps have ever done.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: I think well for me anyway. I can't speak on
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: behalf anyone else, but because I'm not like I reckon,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: you'll argue this, but I would say that you are
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: more innately talented and probably intelligent than me. I'm not
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: saying I have no talent or no intellect, but because
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I've always been like at school, I didn't have great genes.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I wasn't a great academic, I wasn't sporting. I was
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: morbidly obese, and you know, until I lost a whole
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: bunch of weight, I was in many ways. I was
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: very media okah, and if not aiming for mediocre, but
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I was kind of fascinated with human behavior and initially
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: my own ability and my own potential and my own possibilities.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: And I ended up losing a bunch of weight and
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: going from a terrible athlete to not a bad athlete,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: not a great athlete, but not a bad athlete, you know,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: playing reasonable footy and doing like things that I could
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: never have done, and building a body that was, you know,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: a way better version of the previous version, and going
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: okay at a few things. And I kind of realized
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: that for me, my mediocrity was almost my motivation, because
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I knew that if I was ever going to do
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: any good, it was only going to just be work
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: and focus and commitment and discipline and fucking courage and
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: self control because I was not you know, I went
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: to school with lots of gifted kids creatively gifted, musically, gifted, athletically,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: gifted in intellectually, academically. I was in none of those groups.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: So for me, that's always been ironically a source of inspiration.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking of Angela Duckworth's theory of grit as you're
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: talking about that, and she talks about grit eickalls passion
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: plus hard work determination. So you find something you enjoy,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: your passionate about and then do the bloody work. What
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I've seen. The research shows this as well with a
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: lot of high performers. Initially, so the super talented kid,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: the young boy or girl who's just been blessed with
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: God's gift or whatever denomination's gift, and they get by
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: without doing much work, and they get external feedback, Hey,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: you're really good at tennis, at violin, English, at debating,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: and you've done no work. So what does that reinforce?
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: I'm really good and I've done no work. Everyone's telling
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: me I'm really good, So I don't do work, and
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: then eventually some kids like Harps and I'm going to
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: come back. I argue, not that you were less talented.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: It you're a renovator's dream and perhaps whatever the role
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: modeling environment, because.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: You're just can you use that for the title Harps
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: in brackets the renovators.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Dream done, got it chaped. But that conditioning at a
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: young age, it's luck. You really do play the luck lottery,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: and you often take the piss out of yourself. The
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: fat kid from the rabin who's done good, but you
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: had the call there. You just needed to get the
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: self worth, the self effictcausey exercise. So I wouldn't argue
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: that I'm any more or less talented. You just didn't
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: get off to a good start. And I find that
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: with a lot of people, as you do in the
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: parallel lives we have of coaching and podcasting and speaking
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: and writing and working with higher performers. Environment is massive
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: where you come from, but it doesn't have to shape
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: and dictate the rest of your life.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: One hundred. That's a fucking great Sorry for all the
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: swearing Andrews listeners, I'm very sweary. One of the questions
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: that I'm sure you've been asked, I've been asked, I
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: don't know many, more than hundreds of times, maybe thousands,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: but is you know, what about when I lose motivation
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: or how do I stay motivated? Or how do I
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: get motivated? Or how do I And I said, it's
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: not it's not the right question. Like you're operating on
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: the assumption that motivation is the key to transformation, and
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: if that were the case, well, I definitely wouldn't have
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: done anything because I am just because I'm not motivated,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: you know, And with motivated, I'm talking about when most
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: people talk about motivation, they talk about the state they're
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: in excitement, enthusiasm, how they're feeling. Right. I listen to
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Anna and Craig talk and I was so motivated. Right
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: what happened? They had a state change, now motivated, So
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I went for a run, got up next morning, was
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: a motivated, didn't go for a run. So there's this
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: correlation between you know, or assumed correlation, if not causation
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: between I am motivated, therefore you know that means I'm
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: going to produce good outcomes and when I'm not motivated,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I won't and I reckon. The key question with all
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: this kind of messiness around this is two key things. One,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: how productive and proactive and effective can you be when
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: you can't be fucked that very human state of oh,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: can't be fucked cool? Now's the time. Now's the time
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: right now, when you don't want it, when you don't
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: feel like it, when your foots a little bit sore,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: when you're a bit tired, when you could absolutely rationalize it.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: This might I'm not saying it always is. There's a
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: time to chill out too, but sometimes that's the time
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: literally to go do the thing that you need to
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: do but you don't want to do. The second question
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: is around your capacity to do stuff. And this is
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: almost the inverse of fifteen Minutes of Fame Corey Worthington,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: et l. But is your capacity to be able to
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: do the things necessary when no one's looked, no one's cheering,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: no one's clapping you on, no one's affirming you, no
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: one's telling you're a great bloke or slapping your back.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: In fact, no one gives a shit. Show me what
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: you can do, then, because I think that's over the
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: long term. If we're talking about success being not a
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: flash in the pan thing, but rather a reflection of
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: how we live and our life and lifestyle and relationships
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: and internal and external reality, then I think we're looking
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: at a long term thing. I think it's your capacity
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: just to keep doing the things that work, whether or
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: not it's fun or not.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I'm nodding profusely. People watching this on YouTube will see
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: and ladies and gents, I love wining the big fella
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: up because we can riff and rant and you make
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: me think of frameworks and maybe some dormant models that
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: have been sitting there. As you said that totally aligned.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Harp's totally aligned. I look at motivation is more external
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: extrinsic exogynist.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: So it's all that.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: So sometimes people say, oh, I need you harps, I'll
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: listen to the you project, I'll go to your personal
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: training studio because you can motivate me. So it's requiring
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: someone else to do it for you. Now, motivation can
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: get your started. It's like a jumpstart of the car.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: But then you've got to fix the engine so you
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: can start it yourself. I'm going to get a bit
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: playful on words, but the origin of the word inspiration
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: the Latin word inspirare, which means to breathe life into.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: So I'm much more aligned to find what inspires you,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: what's internalized, and then if you can link that back
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: to purpose, that's rocket feel. So I'm not discounting sometimes
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: you do need a friendly kick in the proverbials to
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: get you going.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. I love it. My simple similar
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: analogy is or metaphor is you know, it's a spark
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: that lights the fire, but you're the actual feel that
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: keeps the fire burning. Right, So I think, firstly, I'm
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: not anti motivation. I love motivation, you know, I think
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: for many of us it's you know, it's the starting
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: point and it's the thing that creates momentum, which is beautiful,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: but I think we don't want to be dependent on it,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: just like we don't want to be dependent on praise
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: or reinforcement or accolades or attention. Like I think it's
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: almost like the currency in twenty twenty five is attention.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: That's what everybody wants. They want attention, you know, on
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: social media, on Instagram, on Facebook, on whatever, on TikTok.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: It's like, give me attention, give me attention, give me attention,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: because then I can leverage that attention to something else
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: that I want. You know. And while I understand that,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I think some of the greatest growth and resilience and
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: transformation and breakdowns and breakthroughs happen in the darkness. I'm
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: just holding the pause.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: If I could cut out the studio lights and it
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: would have been a dramatic effect, wouldn't it for our
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: visual watches. Yeah, And this is the mistake a lot
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: of people make, especially I think the younger generation now.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: And I'm not beating up on Jen hy gen Z millennials,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: all the young troops coming through, but it is different
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: to when you and I grew up, because there was
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: no Internet to rocket you to fame. But then ask
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: that question. So you get all the downloads, but is
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: it actually making a difference for you? Now, Yes, some
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: people can accelerate a business that can say, grow a book,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: grow a podcast quickly. But any athlete I sit down
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: with Harps, any coach, I sit down with any entrepreneur,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: any high performer, any leader of defense who really wants
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: to go to the next level. I'm talking about world class.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: It's a decade unless you're a ridiculous rock star and
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: you find you're in a current that just propels you
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: like nothing else, and then you see whether people are
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: really cut out for it. What you mean a decade?
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: I thought if I did some coaching with you and
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: did a bit of a mental ioways upgrade, I could
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: do this shit in twelve months. No, you like, you're good,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: but to be great, or to be world class, it
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: takes you a long time. And I've got an example
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: for you, mate, because I know how in tune you
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: are with popular culture. So you listen to Sabrina Carpenter,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: don't throw me under.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: The bus like that after you pump up my ties.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: I do not, so clearly I'm not up on pop culture.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: You know her most popular song from twenty twenty four, Espresso, Right,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: she's had millions of downloads.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Ah ah, yeah.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: That's all I listened to. So when you do the
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: research for that. Before Espresso came out, she had five albums.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: A couple of first ones were virtual, non existent. She
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: signed an agreement with Disney. She was in the TV
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: show Girl Meets World back in two thousand and fourteen,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: and she was doing acting and singing before that. So
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: she's been fifteen plus years and then suddenly she rockets.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I only know of it because I've got a seventy
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: year old daughter. I mean, her and her friends were
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: talking about Sabrina Carpenter. I thought i'd google it and
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: I did, and they were talking. I said, oh, I
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: love espress it. But what I really like is how
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: she's grown from her Disney person a Girl Meets World.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: And one of Mikla's friends looked at me and she
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: just looked looked at me, really impressed, and she said
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: to Micala, I wish my dad was that girl.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Michale said, no, you don't, No, you don't. Yeah, I
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: love that. I have a really, I think nice story
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: around that. So I had a guy called Jim Murphy
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: on my show. He's not this similar to you, Like,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: he's a high performance guy, got masters, works with teams
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: and athletes. He's from the States. He wrote a book.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say, I think it's called In Her
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Excellence The blah blah, but something like that in two
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: thousand and nine. I think that's the Anyway, his story is.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: His story is that you've got to get him on,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Like get him on, you will love him. I mean so,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: But here's his story. So he wrote this book sixteen
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: years ago and it did okay, but no one knows
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: who he is. Right, And he was a budding, fledgling
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: baseball player, got signed to a major baseball league club,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: didn't had a few issues, didn't really go anywhere, ended
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: up going back to school, did all this stuff, and
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: so it was doing okay but not great. So he
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: wrote this book and the book is good, but no
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: one knows who is. He doesn't have a brand, he
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: doesn't have a profile. I don't know how many books
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: he sells. But you know it's not a it's not
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: a breakthrough, groundbreaking, world changing book. Anyway. Sixteen years later,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: earlier this year, I'm trying to remember. I keep learning,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: you know when you learn like five new things a day.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: And anyway, there was an NFL player during a game.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: He's one of the best players in the NFL. I
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: think he's a running back. Anyway, during the game, this
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: is this year, sixteen years later after Jim wrote the book.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: He's sitting on the sidelines. You know how the offensive
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: team goes on, then they come off, and then the
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: defense goes on. So every time he would be back
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: on the sidelines, he would be reading this book, this
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: sixteen year old book that this dude wrote. And all
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, the commentator is like, I've never ever
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: seen an NFL player reading a book during the game.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: And they zoomed in and there's bits highlighted and he's
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: it's like these are his anyways, So this dude almost
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: overnight becomes the biggest selling author on the planet.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: What a great story, A lote moment.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: So sixteen years old, the book is all of a sudden,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: He's on every major network. He's doing interviews, he's doing
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: speaking gigs all around the world. He's talking a little
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Fatty Harps in Australia, like he's gone from and it
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: took sixteen years, and it was because one moment in time,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: like there was a guy reading that book, like he
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: does work with good athletes, so he's you know, I'd
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: say he's probably at the level you and Irad or
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: you know, but it's not like his Oprah or maybe
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: maybe he's not quite or wasn't quite at the level.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. It doesn't matter, but yeah, and what's
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: beautiful is he's a great guy. He is a great guy,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: and he is so grounded and he is so not
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: a fathead. He is so humble, so self aware, and
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I loved him. I'm like, I'm so glad you are
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: the way that you are because when I read your story,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: when I looked at some of the TV footage and
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: you think, I hope this good is this guy's as
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: good as he seems, and he was even better and yeah,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: just a gentleman and like he is going to ride
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: that wave now. But like I've never met him in person,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: but great story.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Right place, right message, right time, right Blake, grounded and
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: he'll just accelerate. Oh definitely, I'll get his details because
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: that sounds a phenomenal story and good story. Totally backs up.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: This doesn't it that. Yes, you may become viral, which
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: is a new term, but viral does not equal long
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: term success or sustained performance. Got to ask you, do
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: you have a definition of success? All right, then I've
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: got a question for you. You know what I love
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: when we do podcast and even you sent this through
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: to me? Who's interviewing who?
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Mate? I said, I don't really know.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I do you want to do a podcast?
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I go, yeah, sure when? And you're like tomorrow? I'm like, okay,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: who's interviewing who? Like? I don't care? Well? It mixes, right,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: it mixes. Look, success for me is not a thing,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: but it's it's a few things. And I think, like,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: this is a really interesting conversation because and this is
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: true for many things, like success for me will not
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: be success for someone else. I might say, Andrew, when
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: it comes to personal health, what is success for you?
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: And you go ABC? And I go, all right, tell
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: me what success is now from a career point of view,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: and that's something else? And I go, now, tell me
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: about your relationships? What how did you How do you
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: know if that is a successful party or exist or
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: it's where you would like it to be, And so
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I think success is not for me. It's not a
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: global thing. It's a bunch of things, because my life
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: is not a single thing. It's a composite of things.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: And also I think for the individual, what we deem
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: to be success or our version or our I guess
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: description of success will vary over time. So if you
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: had have said to me, you know, Harps, what are
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: you When I was thirty and I owned three gyms,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: and I had one hundred staff, and I owned two
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: other businesses, and all this stuff was going on, and
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: I was in the gym and I was like the
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: captain of the ship, and it was high energy and
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: it was all bloody, you know, dumbbells and giggles and
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: photos of the old Harps. You're well, I was jacked
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: and full of ego and bullshit, and you know, for
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: a while there, I mean, it was just amazing. It
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: was beautiful, there was great energy. But then there came
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: a time when I'm like, yeah, no, that's enough. Yeah
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: it doesn't. This ain't what I want to do anymore.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: It's not that it's bad, it's not that we're doing
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: anything wrong. I've just this doesn't meet the need in
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: me that it once did. I still want to work
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: with people and help people and be of service and value.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: But me, you know, setting the bike seat for dinner,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: and you know, counting reps for Barry, and you know,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: fucking spotting John on the squat bar. It's not my
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: thing anymore.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: You know, we have a lot of fitness traders and
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: personal traders.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Listen to this.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: There's a little bit more than that. So I interrupted you.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: So definition of success has changed for you?
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: It's ev Yeah, I think it's fluid. It's fluid. It's
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: like for somebody like I realized when I was in
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: my twenties that I don't want to be I don't
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: want a job. I don't want to work for someone.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I don't want to clock in at that time clock
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: out at that time. Not because that is bad, but
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: because it didn't work for me. I didn't find a
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: lot of joy in that or fulfillment in that, and
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: I couldn't grow in that. And I wanted to do
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: something where and I'm sure there were some employee employer
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: situations where I really could have grown, but not that
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I had experienced personally. And so you know, for me
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: that success is about, you know, getting better in a way.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: It's about learning and growing and evolving, and you know,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: waking up at sixty one and going, hey, I'm not shit,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not falling apart. My brain works. I mean, I
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: can't be objective, but as objective as I can be.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I think my brain is better than it was when
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I was forty or thirty. I think I'm you know,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: there's obviously deterioration, which is inevitable physiological deterioration. But I'm
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: still pretty fit and pretty strong and pretty healthy. You know,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: I'm very grateful for all of that. So just trying
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: to work well, you know, can I double click on
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: that and that I want to talk about success? And
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: then you said you've got a question. I actually think
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: that the way that we think about age is really unhealthy,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: really unhealthy. I believe that we you know, your mind
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: has a massive impact on your physiology. You know, if
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: you think something bad's gonna happen but it's not gonna happen,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: you think you're in danger, then all of a sudden,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: your bodi's change, sympathetic nervous system ENDO, crime's system, all
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: that stuff, blood pressure, adrenaline, cortisol, respiration, everything's through the roof,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: like just a thought can have a negative physiological consequence.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: And when your story is, oh, this is my age,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: so therefore my options are now this when that's not
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: actually true. Of course, there's an inevitability about physiological aging,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: of course, but the variability is how we age and
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: the rate at how we age, and also your honor.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: While I'm pleading my case, the fifty year old who's
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: never really trained, who starts to train is going to
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: get better. They're not just going to kind of maintain.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: They're gonna get better. And you think about how many
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: people consciously train their body, quite a few. How many
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: people consciously and I mean intentionally structured, reasoned application train
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: their brain almost none? Almost none. And your brain is
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: exactly like the rest of your body in that it
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: will deteriorate if you're not doing something to stop it
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: from deteriorating. And so for me, part of my reason
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: for doing a PhD is that is, like, oh, I
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: know so much stuff, not because I'm brilliant, not because
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I'm smarter than anyone, but just because I've been through
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: this multi year process where oh I went into an
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: environment where I was totally inept. I'm not even being
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: metaphoric when I say I was literally the dumbest one
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: in the room. I couldn't speak the language, I didn't
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: understand the culture. I would read academic papers, I would
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: have to reread one page for an hour to understand
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: what the paper was saying. I didn't know how to
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: write at a PhD level. And that's among all the
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: other things I've been doing over the last five years.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: And it's just because you know, I'm so excited about
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: and this is not bullshit for a podcast. I'm so
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: excited about what I can do, not what people think
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: of me, not how much money I can earn, but
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: just what I can do. Because I think our limitation
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: is not our potential or our capacity nearly as much
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: as it is our thinking about our potential. Like we
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: have age related thinking, and then we have people going, oh, well,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: you know what your age. Your shut the fuck up
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: at your age, Like stop it. I mean, my training
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: partner just turned sixty. He looks like a fucking freak.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: And his you know, he rides an hour and a
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: half two hours a day on his bike. He still works,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: he still does stuff, he trains, he's learning all the time.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: He's always researching. He's always doing stuff. He's got three kids,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: he's got a wife. It's not like he's self centered.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: He's not. And he inspires me. He's you know, and
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: he's a year and a half younger than me.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Your body language, everything ramped up your volume. We've we've
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: hit a hot button.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: My question to you is, I just want to circle
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: back to one thing we spoke about, you know, fifteen
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: minutes of fame. Fame, everyone wants to be literally. I
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: did a talk at a school a few months ago,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: which I don't do many schools, but it was year tens,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: private college, of course it was, and we spoke about
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: you know, the why and what and how of goals
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: and stuff, very basic, and I just said, who wants
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: to go? Why don't you five, five of you tell
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: me what your goals are? I said, I need five hands.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Five hands went up. Two of the five. You know what?
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: The goal was? To be famous? That's their goal. Now
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not judging that. I'm just curious about that.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Also in that generation to be YouTubers Instagram.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah why And they're like what, I go, why so
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: you want to be famous? Why? Neither of them could
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: tell me. I think people confuse fame or even popularity
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: with love. Like I've got a reasonably high profile. I'm
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: definitely not famous, but you know in Melbourne, I'm moderately
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: well known. But I don't confuse that at all with
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: friendships or real connection or love or you know. It's
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: like I reckon, if you have five people in your
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: life who love you unconditionally, you're doing great. So what
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: do you think about fame? What's the drive? Why do
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: people want that?
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: I'm going to try and tap this into my definition
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: of success and try and wrap two open loops up together.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: So this is either going to go ah, our audience
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: will go that makes sense, or they go he totally
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: stuffs that on our bold symbol. I've dropped to sitter.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I think there's two definitions, or two origins of success.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: One is external and that it can be aligned to
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: your performance based identity. I perform Therefore I am now
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with that. You and I have worked
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: with hundreds collectively of athletes, thousands of people, tens of
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: thousands who have been driven by a performance based identity,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: and that is external and extremes.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: You can get.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Rewarded with money and fame and cash and accolades and
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: love and relationships and all that stuff, and there's nothing
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: wrong with that. But where I spend a lot of
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: my time and I know you do, is then try
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: to stitch that together with more internal intrinsic, inspirational, and
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: that's a purpose based identity, and that's who I am
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: in this world and how I contribute. And for a
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: lot of people that go our purpose, mate, I'm too busy, tired, distracted,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I can't go there.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Well, just look at meaning. What gives you meaning?
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: So I think they are the two definitions. And this
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: is not new because you look at the literature. You've
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: got you'd ammonia and heat ammonia. The you'd ammonia aligned
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: to the Greek word or philosophy of being connected. It's
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: more than you and headimonia is all about just you
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: and power and kudos and everything else. So to me,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: I think there's a beautiful diagram like a ven diagram,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: and you can have them both intersecting. So do I
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: want to build a business and make money and have
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: a nice house and a car and have some experiences?
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Abs A frequently harps absolutely, But is that the only goal? No,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: because the first forty years of my life, I was
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: so performance based, and then you know, my story went
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: through a marriage breakdown, living in a big house, big cars,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: water views, two kids, and I was miserable because there's
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: nothing for me. So to me, it's the stitching together
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: of the two. Now, if you do that, it's sustainable.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: If you do that, it can be really impactful because
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: then you're living on your terms, your purpose. So then
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: what is fame. Fame could be the barista in a
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: small country town it makes frickin awesome coffee that keeps
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: everyone awake, but more so connected first thing of a morning.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Or fame may be getting millions of record styles and downloads.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: But to me, it's stitching the two together. So I
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: think you can have external success, but you've got to
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: be grounded in a set of values, and the purpose
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: is bigger than you. It's future focused, and it excites
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: the living daylights out of here. I've just gone pretty
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: deep and broad with you. So to me, it's those
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: two definitions of all identities, the purpose based identity and
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: the performance based identity. And I find I'm sure for
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: your audience and my audience, a lot of them will
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: understand the performance based identity, because that's what the that's
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: the school board that we're measured on. We're measured on this.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: You make the team where you don't you score the
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: points or you don't you get the girl or the guy,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: or you don't you get the metrics at work or
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: you don't.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: So life is very.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Much performance based, and I think for a lot of people,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: you've got to adapt to that and work with that.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Why we have so many people although who earns so
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: much money. I've worked with a couple of billionaires and
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: no miserable bastards because they develop nothing about the heart
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: or about the connection of the purpose. I'll draw a breath.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: There's a very long answer to a simple question.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: No, No, I like it. I like it. I think identity
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: is a really interesting door to open because we often
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: attach our beliefs or our talent or our capacity to
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: win or whatever it is. You know. It's like obviously
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: religion's a big one, but you know, when you believe something,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: or you think you believe something, or you do believe something,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: or you think you know something, you think you're right
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: about something, you think you have the answer, you have
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: insight that other people don't have, and that becomes intertwined
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: with if not truly representative of your identity, then you
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: make yourself pretty much unteachable unless somebody is echoing your
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: same thoughts, right, And this is a you know, of course,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: confirmation bias and the famous old echo chamber, and you
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: know we that it is two things are I think
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: true in most people. At the same time we say, oh, yeah,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: I want to be a better version of me. I'm
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: open minded, I love learning. Da da da da da.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: But at the same time we are pretty much fucking
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: rock solid unteachable on certain things because we think that
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: we absolutely know when we don't know. We don't have knowledge.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: We have belief. We have faith, and faith and belief
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: are good things. But it's like I've probably said this
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: to you at some stage and maybe listeners, but I
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: grew up and it's not about religion. It's about thinking.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: It's about metacognition. It's about understanding why you think the
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: way you think, and understanding why you have such a
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: fear based emotional attachment to an idea or a construct
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: or an ideology because you are the ideology and if
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: someone attacks the ideology or thought or the belief, then
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: you feel attacked. Now, when you are intertwined with something
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: else that isn't you, especially if we're talking about a
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: theoretical construct, it's it's very, very hard to truly be
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: objective and awhere and conscious because you are always looking
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: at life through the window of or the filter of
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: I am a Vegan, I am a Catholic, I am
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: a whatever. It is not the being a vegan or
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: a Catholic about, of course, but it's hello to all
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: of that vegan Catholic podcast. But it's no. But do
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I have self limiting beliefs? Yes? Do I Look, I mean,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: this is the point. This is I'm saying this for
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: me too. I'm saying there was a I was also.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but I went
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: through a phase where I went to a fundamental born
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: again Christian tambourine banging, rafter swinging.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Church for years years just on that people. People can
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: go back in our backlog on the Performance Intelligence podcast,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: not the most recent one, I think the one before that,
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: episode number one hundred and two.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Do you remember the title.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: I think it's the best title we've ever done in
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: a podcast. It was Jesus Joe's Hands.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: And Jeers that's right, that's right, remember conversation. But there
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: were times when if you tried to even talk to
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: me about something that was an alternate theology or theory,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have listened to you, right, And that is
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: all about me. That is all about and I understand that.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: So I'm not saying don't believe, don't think. I'm not
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: saying that. I'm saying, if we truly want to be
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: teachable and cognitively and emotionally and even spiritually malleable, like
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: that is where we are open to learn. We are
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: okay with being wrong. We are okay with not knowing.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Here's an idea. When someone asks you something and you
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: don't know, go I don't know the end. Not Ah,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: It's like there's so much shit of all there is
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: to know. If all there is to know is an ocean,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: I'm a drop of water in that ocean.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: When you do that, not even I find I wouldn't
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: have done that in my early career because I thought
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: I've got to be this omniscient, omnipotent person pretending it's bullshit.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: It's a facade when you say to somehow, I don't know.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: I had an athlete last week and a coach actually
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: talking to both of them. They asked me something. I said, Okay,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: that's a really good question. I'm not sure. Can you
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: give me a bit of time to go and check
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: on that and I'll come bat you. The athletic left
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: and I was with the coach just having a coffee.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: He said, that was really refreshing. I said, what I said?
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: When you just said I'm going to go and check that,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I said, well, I didn't know. I wasn't going to
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: make it up. We're talking about something pretty serious to
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: this athlete. I said, it's totally totally negligent of me
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: to make that up if I don't know that comes
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: with age. And just to wrap out on success, because
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about hard work,
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: which is non sexy and boring, and as you said,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: done in the shadows. What if we got our listeners
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: and our viewers, so our collective audience to just sit
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: down and write down what is success for you? Grab
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: a beverage of your choice, and just sit down for
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: ten or fifteen minutes with no distraction and just ask
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: that question. What is success or a statement? Success for
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: me is dot dot dot?
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: I gave you that definition with two nice circles crossed
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: over purpose based identity, performance based identity, but made. It's
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: taken me lots of highs and lows and stuff ups
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: and fuck ups to actually put that together. And a
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: simple one for me is making sure I'm making a
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: contribution to the outside world, connecting with my loved ones
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: and from a personal point of view, engaged and feeling
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: like I'm being deuced. So it doesn't have to be
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: high level, high science, high tech. What is it that
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: defines or delineates success for you? And you know what, harps,
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: You've been on this planet just a little bit longer
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: than me, mate. But the more I deal with people,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: the more I just realize we've got to help people
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: with a framework because we don't get this manual on
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: how we work, and we're fricking complicated and complex, and
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: we're becoming more so with tech and AI and there's
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of stuff on that as well.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: AI.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Yes it's helping you be more productive, but it's killing
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: your brain if you don't work it. But we really
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: do just need to sometimes come back to fundamentals and
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: go what is it like, what is going to make
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: me happy or fulfilled? And what is success to me?
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: And then reverse engineer it, set your life up for
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: it rather than just getting into this slipstream before you
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: realize you wake up ten, twenty thirty, forty fifty years
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: later living someone else's life and go, shit, what was that.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I think that's a great question to ask,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: and I think another question to ask, so one from Andrew,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: one from Harps. My question is what are your values?
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: And is your life a reflection of those values? So
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: for me, values are just the things that matter to
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: you most, and you can't get it wrong because they're
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: your values. But so I would say for me, things
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: like you know, physical mental, emotional health, that's a value,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: looking after people that I love, my parents, being elderly
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: right now, that's probably my number one value at the moment.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Having a purpose bigger than me, and being of service,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: which Andrews spoke about, that's a value for me. So
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, and it sounds cheesy and cliche
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: and we can all go, oh, yeah, of course it is,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: because you're on a fucking podcast. I get that too.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: I get that too. And have I ever been a selfish,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: self centered, thoughtless, lacking empathy. Have I ever Yes, sure have,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Sure have? Do I ever do that? Now? Sure?
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Do?
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I try not to. I try to be more aware.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I am one of the most flawed people I know,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: but I'm okay to say that, and I'm a work
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: in progress. But what having clarity about our values does.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: It helps us make decisions as we navigate life. Where
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: we go, Oh, here's an opportunity, or here's a decision
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: I've got to make, or here's a situation I've got
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: to deal with. Well, these are my values, so it's clear.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: It's clear what I need to do or not do.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: It's not easy because sometimes some of those opportunities are
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: financially rewarding, but they don't align with my values. And
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: I think we've spoken about this, but I've had a
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: number of probably five or six or seven really good
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: commercial opportunities on my show that I couldn't take. They
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: were financially good opportunities, but they didn't They just didn't
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: align with what I think and what I believe, and
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: I definitely couldn't sell that stuff. So I went, I
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: would love your dough, but I can't sell your stuff.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: And so was it easy? No? Was it clear? Though?
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Absolutely it's now a perfect segaway. We're going to take
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: an AD and we'll be back to the program shortly.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: This program with Craig Harper is sponsored by hard Rock
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Correct Ol dysfunction Treatment. You're having problem getting.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Well? That I would certainly sponsor that.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: I I want you then going, Hey, shiny head, didn't
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: tell me he's now bringing ads in. You were thinking
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: this guy's gone next level? Hey bringing it an AD?
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Not talking about hard rock? Well close enough, hard.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Rock hard something. And yes, it's.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Well, that's where we were going, wasn't that. Yes, that's right.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: See what you do to me.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: You make me feel intelligent and playful and silly all
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: at once. Harps, you're an influence on all sides of
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: my spectrums.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Don't blame me for your bad behavior. You take responsibility.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: We've both gone a little bit red, or I would
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: take a breath. Rip Van Winkle a fictational character from
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: a short story by a dude named Washington Irving published
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: back in the eighteen hundred. Somewhere you know the Rip
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: van Winkle story is an easy going dude. This is
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: I actually dug this up because I've been saying for
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: a long time. Rip Van Winkle. It takes fifteen twenty
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: years to become an overnight success. But I'd never looked
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: at the origin story. Do you know the origin story?
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Tell me that, Like, I know of the story, but
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: I really don't know the story story.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I thought, in preparation for chatting to you,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: I'm going to use Rip van Winkle. I better actually
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: find out about the old Vans to himself. So this
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: is what the information says. Rip is an easy going
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: man who wanted to escape his nagging wife. Please, any
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: of our audience, do not shoot the messenger. This is
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: what I was saying. By wandering into the mountains, he
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: had some mysterious liquor given to him by strange men.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: He fell asleep, and he woke up twenty years later.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: When he returned to his village, everything had changed, including
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: the fact the American Revolution had taken place and people
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: barely recognized him. He felt fus and out of time. However,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: the overnight success part of this relates to a metaphor
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: used to highlight the illusion that someone becomes successful out
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: of nowhere, or the public perception of a sudden transformation
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: without acknowledging the long passage of time. And the changes
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: that happened quietly in the background. So Rip comes back
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: and it's changed massively because he's been asleep so he
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: didn't actually see the subtle changes. And it's also the
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: idea of waking up one day to discover the world.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Finally sees your success, Rip and be involved in a
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: fair bit of planning in the town in the early days,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: even though the process had been happening the whole time.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: So the Rip van Winkle effect LinkedIn to Craig Harper.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Just give our audience who don't know you, just a
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: bit of a highlight of some of the successes and
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: stuff ups you've had. How many podcasts, how many businesses?
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Really point because because someone you've got one of the
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: most downloaded podcasts in Australia. Awesome success, great speaking business.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: But give us the reality.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: So I get about between six and eight million views
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: every thirty days on my Instagram, so that's pretty good.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: I've written seven books. I've worked on in Telli. I
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: worked on Channel ten on a show called The Dave
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: and Kimshow Morning Show for three years. I did a
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: weekly spot on there. I worked in commercial radio, set
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: up the first personal training centers in Australia. As you
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: alluded to wrote the first course. I didn't go to
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: UNI til I was thirty six for the first time.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: So there's some encouragement for you old and want to
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: be students. Spoken all over the world, spoken in about
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: thirty countries. Yeah, and like just a lot of fun stuff.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: And for me, I feel like my biggest achievement in
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: this kind of workspace is creating a model of work
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: that doesn't feel like work, like I genuinely just love
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: the stuff that I do. And the other day I
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: went into State and I got stopped twice, once at
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Brisbane and once here in and both people said essentially, harps,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: follow you stuff, love you stuff. You're great, so appreciate you.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: I know you don't know me, but you've had an
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: impact in my life and thanks. And one of them
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: was a dude, the other one was lady. And he goes,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: can I give you a hug? I'm like, fuck, bring
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: it in, bro, you know. So I'm at the airport,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: I'm hugging a dude. I got. I didn't cry, but
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: I was about fucking two nine to oh seconds away
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: from crying. And I got on the plane and I thought,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: this is why I love my life, Like he was
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: this dude to struggle with addiction and all this stuff,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: and he's just in a really good place. And clearly
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't do the work. He did the work, clearly,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: but just being a little part of that journey for me,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: you know that that stuff is, you know, that's always
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: for me, like way more meaningful than, you know than
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: any kind of financial reward or commercial success. But yeah,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: so lots of stuff, lots of years.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: And then if you were a record, that's your top
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: hits at the A side, flip the record over, what's
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: the B side? What are some of the stuff ups
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: and the setbacks? How many different podcasts did you have
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: until you got you projects?
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah? So I had three shows that didn't work. Even
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: the first two hundred shows of the U Project, I
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: was losing money. Oh yeah. I mean my theory is
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: you can't become a black belt without being a white belt, right.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: You can't get good at what you won't do. You
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: can't master what you avoid. So everything that I started
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: initially I was either absolutely fucking terrible or very mediocre.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: But how do you get good? Will you get good
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: by keep showing up? You know, keeping showing up. So
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: I remember my first speaking gig. I was twenty six.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: It was in a timber yard. It was to thirty
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: employees in their lunch room. The guy that I owned
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: the timberyard was one of my pt clients. I was terrible.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: I was absolutely shitting myself. I couldn't string four words together.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: They hated me, they hated it. They couldn't get out
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: of there quick enough. But I had this weird sense
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: of Okay, I've done one. That's the worst I'm going
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: to be. And that was the worst I ever was, right,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: and and then there was still a lot of stuff up.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Like you have to be. If your compass is set
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: on comfort and instant gratification and certainty and familiarity, that's
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: the best possible way to not develop, to not grow,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: to not learn, to not build understanding, awareness and resilience.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: So I've made way more fuck ups than I've had successes.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: But when you you know, as we do, we reframe
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: shit and you go, yeah, but what did you learn? Well?
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: I actually learned a bunch of stuff, Like I learned
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: setting up harpers. Right. There were no personal training centers.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: There wasn't even a course or an accreditation. There was
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: an insurance like nobody I'm setting up this thing. I
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: don't even have a single person in a country of whatever.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: It was then twenty million that I can ask for
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: advice because no one's done it. And I'm twenty five
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: or twenty six at the time. I'm not a businessman.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: I don't have a degree. I don't understand leadership. I
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: don't understand dealing with counsels and lawyers, and I don't
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: you know, like it was just dive in the deep end.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: He actually can't swim, but hopefully he won't drown, and
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: I so nearly drowned a hundred times. But you know,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: that's kind of what makes you.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: And any person who's had success over a sustained period
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: of time is going to say the same thing. It
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: wasn't just rocket ship taking off. It's set back cardship,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: motivation fuel, but was sort of come back to hopefully
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: a link to where we were before, knowing what's important
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: for you, being values aligned, it's going to be the
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: rocket fuel that keeps you going. Because if it's just
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: all for the clickbait, Hey I've got this many likes,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: what makes me feel good? That stuff's going to run
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: out very very quickly. Isn't it as a fuel source?
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, definitely. I think you need to be, you know,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: intrinsically motivated and really that. Like I was an only child,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: I was insecure. I had I don't know if actually
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: had a bigger ego, but I was very insecure. I
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: was very fearful, and I was probably sociologically kind of
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: needy because I didn't have brothers and sisters. And my
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: mum and dad were amazing still are amazing people, but
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: ironically we were never super close. It was like growing
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: up in my house was like living with an auntie
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: and uncle that were great, right, It wasn't. There wasn't
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: this super close, emotional, warm, fuzzy connection. So yeah, I
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: was a pretty insecure and I would say, you know,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: I probably still got bullshit going on, but up until
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: I was thirty, I was really like psychologically and emotionally
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: dealing with stuff on a daily basis while role playing
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: you know, the cool, confident guy to the world.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: I genuinely mean what I'm about to say. I am
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: glad you pushed through. I really am, because you're you're
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: been a mentor and inspiration to me. You think I
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: was going to take the piece. Then I really remember
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: what I'm about to say.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I was hoping you are to get serious. Why don't
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: you get serious? I don't know where to Let's let's
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: do the one I generally mean. I'm about to say
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: you're an absolute tool Harps and we love. That's better.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Isn't it funny that I'm more comfortable with that. I've
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: had this chat before and I didn't do that purposely.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: But let me let me say you have been a
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: real mentor of mine. And the mentor doesn't have to
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: be someone live. You can get a mentor through a
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: podcast or through a book. But the origin I came
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: up to you, I was twenty five, full head of hair, fitness, confidence,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: you know the story, and said, oh you're Craig harper
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: manre may and from Hobart. Can I have a chat?
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Said?
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, have a lunch, come walk with me. So
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: you you opened up then. I don't know how many
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: thousands of people you've opened up to your studio. I've
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: heard a similar story from a whole bunch of people.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: You're very giving. I'm really grateful that you pushed through
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: because you've done the hard work, You've the rip Van
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: Winkle time to too and a bit more and then
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: you have the compound interest. But I want to talk
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: about one topic before we wrap up, and that's the
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: notion of when do you know enough is enough?
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: And I walk away.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Because more discretionary effort, more time invested in this, it's
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: actually not going to help. So will There's glory in persistence.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: There's also wisdom in pivoting and knowing the difference around
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: what separates obsession from evolution is really really important. I
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: have an example personally for me. It was running. I
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: stopped running at twenty eight. I had two goals, break
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: the four minute mile and to go to the Olympics,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: and I did neither. Could have I run faster?
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I reckon.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: I could have got my fifteen hundred time down maybe
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: another four or five seconds would have taken a couple
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: of years. Did I have the heart, share, passion, commitment,
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: disciplined to do that?
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: God?
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: Now, I had just run out of energy. So the
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: best thing for me at that stage was actually the stop.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: And this is interesting Harps as far as having a
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: career and a life outside of just being a runner.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: Mental toughness is misconstrued as just being about resilience and
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: grips and hardiness and all those construct William Wallace.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: But they won't take our freedom.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: He charged or she charged through fiery furnace and save
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: the people and the children. But mental toughness. The other
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: side of mental toughness is knowing when to give up,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: because that frees you up to go into other areas.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would reframe it. I wouldn't say giving up.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: I think I know what you're saying, but I would
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: be like, yeah, doesn't have the same kind of feel
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: for me anymore. It's not that important anymore. It doesn't
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: matter to me enough. It did matter a lot once,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: it doesn't now. When I do a cost benefit analysis
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: on how much I need to invest in this to
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: potentially maybe move the needle a little bit, and what
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: the outcome or the benefit might be, it's really not
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: worth it. Like I walked away from personal training and
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: I was pretty good at it, and I could charge
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: stupid money, but it's not It had its I think
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: things have a use by date, mate. I feel like
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: they have a psychological and emotional used by date for us.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: Where I go that used to blow my socks off,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: it doesn't anymore. That doesn't mean everything's got to blow
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: my socks off that I do. But if I'm talking about,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: you know, what's going to keep me in the game
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: and excited and a bit focused and all of that stuff,
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: then you know it's got to be something that I
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: really want to be pursuing. But the other side of that,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: of course, is you know, well, what are the things
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: that I need to do to, for example, be a
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: good so to look after my Well, that's just not
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: about me. That's not about what I want. That's about
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: what I need to do to meet my mum and
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: dad's needs. Right. But I think if we're talking more
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: from a career point of view or a trying to
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: become an Olympic runner point of view, or I think,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: you know, I think we have this innate knowledge and
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: wisdom that we go no, mate, that's you're probably not
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: going to run sub four minutes, or you might, but
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: it could take you five years, and whether or not
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: that is the best investment of five years, you probably
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: know it's not.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: And do you have that grit duckworth definition perseverance and
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: passion And I found I had neither. I think that's
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: a good filter to run like if you really want
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: to go hard and keep going, are you passionate about it?
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: Do you think you can continue to persevere? So rather
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: than giving up. I like that that correction on the words.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: It's more around a pivot or an evolution to what's next.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean like if I said to you, I
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: actually don't know what the answers got to be. I
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: think I do. Somebody asked me this years ago, and
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I answered straight away, and they're like, really, I go absolutely,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: And they said, okay, so tonight you can talk to
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: one hundred people and you're going to get paid twenty grand,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: or over the road at Rod Laver Arena, you can
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: talk to ten thousand people for free. What do you choose?
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: I go, Rod Laver Arena. I go, but I want
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: three or four hours with them, not a I don't
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: want to do a keynote because and even let's say,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: and by the way, there's zero chance Craig, that following
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: that three or four hours with those ten thousand people,
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: that there's any commercial benefit for you, right, I'm like, yes,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: I don't want anything, just time with those people me
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: now where I am and back then, That's what I
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: would choose because that's just the for me. That's the
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: currency that matters. And I know that sounds cheesy, but
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: and yes, you've got to pay the bills, and you've
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: got to feed the kids, and you've got to pay
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: for school fees, and you've got to put gas in
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: the car, and I get it, and of course those
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: things matter. And of course I am privileged. I realize
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: I'm privileged and lucky or blessed or whatever you want
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: to call it, that I'm in a position where it's
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: not weak to weak desperate kind of finances, you know.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's how much I love this. And when
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: I met you all those years ago, and again this
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: sounds like bullshit, but I realized really early that if
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: I was selfish, one, I wasn't a great person to
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: be around. Two, I didn't like me. And the best
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: version of me is the version of me that wants
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: you to be great for no reason other than I
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: want you to be great. I want you to succeed.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Even if I fail, I want you to succeed. And
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: you know, there's a thing, there's a term, here's a
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: term for you. You've taught me, what t you taught
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: me inspirare today I wrote it down. I'm teaching you one.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: It's called sharden freuder. Have you heard that?
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: The opposite that would be mitfreuder.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that is.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Shaden Freuder is pleasure through other people's misery. Yes, mitfreuder
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: is pleasure through other people's success. You're a mittwell not
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: a shark.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's me. Wow, you taught me something. Yeah, And
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: so for me, that like when I am I'm involved
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: in someone's growth or success or happiness. And again this
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: sounds selfish, It's like it gives me an experience that
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: I can't through doing anything for myself. I can't have that.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: There's nothing I can get that gives me that feeling
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: of helping you become amazing, or helping you on your
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: supporting you or encouraging you or seeing you do great.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: And I think that like coming full circle and being
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: a bit weird and deep. Fuck it, I don't care.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: I got asked on a podcast whose was it? The
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: other day? They said, if you if there was if
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: everything you've ever said, or ever written, or all the
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: stuff that you've put out into the world was deleted,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: and you could leave us with one message, what would
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: that message be out of everything and not leaning back
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: into anything. I just said, love matters most. And you know,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: I sat with a friend of mine six months ago
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: who was essentially my second mum. I loved her very
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: very much. She was at death's door. I sat with
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: her in hospital and I held her hand for an
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: hour and a half and we just spoke. There was
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: no one else in the room, and she died about
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: forty eight hours later, and I was sitting with her
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: and I just, I don't know. I don't know what
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: your beliefs are these days. I don't even know what
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: mine are. But I'm like, all the rest is bullshit, Craig,
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: All the rest is just stories that you tell yourself.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: And it's not all bullshit, of course, But in that moment,
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: I went, all I want to do is be here
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: and love her, and like, it was the most painful
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: and beautiful hour and a half maybe of my life, right,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: And you like, I invest so much emotional and psychological
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: energy into stuff that really it's you know, I know
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: it's all context dependent, but yeah, I think if we,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: if we could, and I know this isn't the way
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: the world works, but imagine if we, for the most part,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: really try to operate from a place of love, and
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: I mean real love. I don't mean conditional love. I
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: don't mean strategic love, because conditional and strategic love are
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: not love. But just where you go. Fuck, I'm happy
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: for you. Fuck, I love you. I want you to
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: do well. You know for me. That's it. That's it,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: that's that's maybe. That's my answer to what is success.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: We could riff for hours, and we do. I'm going
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: to start to close this broad ranging discussion. I appreciate you.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate you. I really appreciate your message and
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: the learnings I have had and continue to have from you.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: And I appreciate the relationship and the connection we have.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: And I even reflect on today it is the five
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: deeds of dodgeball, dodge, duck, dive, dip, and dodge. We
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: have talked about everything today, from meta cognition and transcendence
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: right through to erect old dysfunction ads. I'm still cracking
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: up about the look on your face thing, shiny heads
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: putting at it. He didn't even tell me, oh idiot.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: And the worst part is some people will go the
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: ED stuff was the best. Well, it's range. David Epstein, Right,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: you need range, but I genuinely mean that I appreciate you.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: I appreciate what I learn from you and what you
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: give to the world, and I appreciate our friendship and
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: the love that you bring to everything you do. So
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: those those three words, those very simple words, which is
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: really deep and complicated to get so simple. You're on
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: brand mate, Thanks mate, I.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Appreciate you, love you, care about you, happy that you're
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: killing it, and that you're doing stuff that's impacting people
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: in a great way. So go you. Hey listeners, you
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: didn't expect this love festige your fucking hell. You probably
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: need to go take a shower after this.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: If we're in the airport, we'd be hugging and having
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: a bit of a moment.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: We definitely would know. Mate, you're great, love you, thank
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: you so much for having me.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: And overnight success doesn't happen, right. You can have a meme,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: or you can become a meme, you can have a
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: viral hit, But the fundamental message to finishes twofold love
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: and connection. That's a little bonus that's come out of this.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: But to be successful, you've got to do the hard yards.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean it has to be really difficult, but
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: you've just got to be patient, have a long range
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: view and enjoy it along the way.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: What he said, love your brother so you might